The President continues his purge of government officials who expose corruption, the Trump campaign uses a kitchen sink strategy to define Joe Biden, Barack Obama reminds us of what a normal president sounds like, and House Democrats pass an economic relief bill with some defections. Then Senator Sherrod Brown and Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Connie Schultz talk to Jon L. about Senate negotiations over the next stimulus bill, and what it’s like to quarantine together.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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welcome, deposit America. I'm John Favour. I'm John love! It and Tommy these or on today's PA,
love. It talks of senator shared round in Pulitzer Prize Winning writer Conny shots
negotiations on the next economic relief bill and what it's like to quarantine together,
before that it was by the way we already recorded, that it was delightful. I mean it was seriously negotiated. It was so nice to see them both awesome,
for that? We'll talk about the president's latest abuse of power, the trunk campaigns attempt to define Joe Biden and these three trillion dollar stimulus package that pass the house last week, but first love it. How
show. This week we had a great love it or leave it Adam Con overjoyed to judge them on along and him saying what the fuck to a bad joke is one of the hardest laugh,
I've had a while and Patrick reddened Keith talked about wind of change and conspiracy theories, plus we
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this is our new investigative series, where Patrick radden Keefe investigate a rumor, that the CIA wrote a song that became the anthem for change at the end of the cold war. Listen rate review you'll. Thank us later, very, very good everyone's talking about it all right
get the news mirror times at a story over the weekend that I think sums up where we are pretty well. Here's the sub head
by smearing his opponents championing
conspiracy theories in pursuing vendettas praise.
Trump has reverted to his darkest political tactics, in spite of a pandemic, hurting millions of Americans a prime example of those tactics
on display Friday night, when the president accepted Secretary of state, my Pompiers request to fire State Department, inspector general, Steve Linux,
who is reportedly in the middle of investigating, might Pompey for using State Department staff for personal purposes, including dog, walking and dinner reservation
and now we learn this morning. Potential
four unilaterally approving billions of dollars in arms sales to Saudi Arabia, over congresses objections in
spies to sixty minutes interview from another government official who he fired, doctorate bright, the gang ran Arbour.
In development and in file that whistleblower complaint Trump tweeted quote this
whistleblower? Racket needs to be looked at very closely. It is causing great injustice and harm
How many people here this? It might think you know Trump fires. People are fairly corrupt reasons all the time. What's the big deal? What are you
well, I mean the first thing: they should realise that these inspector general positions are supposed to be within the agencies, but with independence. Theirs was to look at that waste fraud, abuse of power and then like identify and recommend fixes so that they can fix them. You often have an adversarial relationship with your inspector general, but that's a good thing. Trump has fired at least three of them with these late Friday, night purges, and so the State Department guys the latest by the way he's not some partisan, hack, Steve Linux worked Indy George W Bush Department of Justice, so he's a career official, so House Democrats trying to figure out what happened. Some think Steve Clinic was looking into my compares misuse of political appointees. You mentioned this.
They are, but they might have been asked to perform tasks like get get the dog from the groom or pick up. My drycleaning make me a reservation at a restaurant. Bumpo does have a record of treating the State Department like his own, like political travel agency right at me, he took three official trips to Kansas, not a foreign policy huts,
but ass. He was thinking about whether to run for the Senate. That's the point where the Kansas City, STAR,
ready to toil titled MIKE Bumpo
their quit and run for you, a Senate in Kansas or focus on your day. Job pretty pointed so. They pray
usually called on them to be investigated for violating the Hatch act. Now this could be a little,
Darker, though Elliot Angle, said this inspector general was investigating trumpet pompiers decision to issue
an emergency declaration that basically forced through and aid
billion, dollar arms sale, most
the Saudi Arabia and the reason that's a big deal is because, under the arms Export Control ACT, Congress has to be formally notified for thirty calendar days to review these arms sales before.
It can be concluded in. So this end, Rhine declaring a state of emergency because of the threat from IRAN
The arms your delivering won't be there for an entire year is absurd on its face right and it might
violated, not just the notification requirements to Congress, but also the underlying law would says. He's arms have to be for legitimate self defence,
but the Saudis have been doing in Yemen in this horrible civil war has not been that it could all
violated the foreign assistance act, because these weapons are going to a country that has been deemed to be in violation of human rights. So look if you hear the like making
My political pointy, making reservations are picking up the dog thing and you think that's like Turkey, tack, bullshit. Ok, you can believe that, but having the present United States,
I'm the guy that's invested, giving you is the definition of abuse of power and corruption, and that's why this is such a big deal like in its totality so
Justa, hey! I go, walk my dog and pick up my dry cleaning, its walk. My dog pickup dry cleaning and send a few rocket launchers to India is aimed at Amazon. You off my dog, I'm gonna. Let Saudi Arabia walk America like a dog and all the dogs or walked
walk, walk this very young guy down to the defence department, then get him a sweetheart. I look. This coincided with the huge story over in the New York Times over the weekend about the drastic uptake in arms sales to places like Saudi Arabia, because people like you could turn Peter Navarro are treating arms sales like a job creation programme and not like something. We should take very
Firstly, these weapons of war love it. What was your reaction and story? I think it's hum
it's bad and I don't like it, but the the larger Europe you just put it in the context. So he said
during IGS. You have attorney
barrel bar at the acting as terms personal lawyer. You have the administration rejecting
Congress visibility to enforce subpoenas. You have the the president rejecting law enforcement happiness. You are the president using pardons to protect.
If you have a larger republican theory, that the president's authority over the executive branch is total and there
are these sort of institutional checks, are
necessarily valid. They also have them
leaving the president can only be impeach for statutory offences like specific breaking of the law and when
find those examples of lawbreaking. They dont respect them and they dont acknowledge them out of cowardice, and you had all this together and you end
with a president. That is,
of the law, and it is incredibly dangerous and I can
imagine how much worse it will get if we fail to remove him in November. These are all prove points of the stakes of the election. That's all and look don't take our word for it. We know urban
partisan hats here that here's Mitt Romney his Mitt Romney quote fire
of multiple inspectors. General is unprecedented doing so without good cause. Chills the independence essential to their purpose is a threat to accountable democracy and official in the constitutional balance of power. I have to say good from
rob me, that's a hell of a lot better than fuckin. Susan Collins, who had a little tweets are about to Collins, has always been like
very into inspectors general. As a concept. She wrote that the best she could muster was quote. The president has not provided the kind of justification for the removal of age limit
required by the law. That's all we got from since you can. You can imagine Susan Collins next
rose and Jack as the titanic sinks into the water
final word. She says before that
The splash is, I am deeply concerned about this iceberg. Like I love it laid out. I think a really scary, like big big picture but with just with
he's I jeez, I mean anyone
crosses Trump. One of these,
Directors general use must be an independent watchdog has been fired, so the State Department one we just walk through
but over each age that Idee reported on severe shortages of corona virus testing. Kits that person was let go the intelligence.
The inspector general a ship hand for forwarding along a whistle blower complaint to Congress, which he has to do. The deed
De Guy was fired just because he was called Obama era and you didn't want him overseeing the
run a virus stimulus programmes like this is a perch. It's a purge of independence in the government. The people were supposed to root out corruption, so
you mentioned is timely, but over the weekend Democrats in Congress, illegal in the house and bargaining, doesn't the Senate have open an investigation into what they say may be? An act of illegal retaliation was the quote so obvious it s the right thing to do.
My question is now that tremendous goes to your point. Let it like now the Trump has been impeached and acquitted like how did Democrats make oversight matter
because it's the right thing to do, but I sometimes I wonder, like you know we have an election in November. They can open investigations. It is the right thing to do. We should all want the truth, but how can you make it matter?
politically or can you? I think it's really hard question, and I think that this is an argument that Democrats have been having amongst themselves for years now between those who think it is not necessarily politically advantageous
to make oversight a battle line in short of argument, in our political campaigns
and who worry over impeachment as being politically harmful to them.
Rats even if it was the morally correct thing to do, and those who argue that that Donald Trump greatest trick,
convincing people. He doesn't respond to incentives in one of the lessons of impeachment, as at the second that impeachment lever was removed, he became more brazen
I don't think anybody really knows. I don't think anybody has. The answer is a really difficult question. I think we have the kind of
people things in our mind at once, right that, ultimately be the only true
to achieve credibility here, is to remove Donald Trump from office. Ideally, when the Senate, you keep the house and then you have the ability with those with those committees with that power to reverse some of his institutional, corrupt
an attack. Some of the failures of the last three years exposed some of the injustice which will have to do over the next couple of years versus the importance
right now of making sure there's a watchdog on tromp, and I don't think anybody who claims to know
oh the right thing to do. Perfectly is being honest me, I think, impeachment and really
Everything since has shown that the limits of Congress's ability to have effective oversight if the executive branch is just going to give you the finger about literally everything and say no, so I think the key here is making
corruption and trumps. Yet Trump inherited a town that everyone thinks is broken and corrupt right. People think Washington is bad. Now politicians are bad, but he has made it exponentially worse, and I think that by
campaign, needs to know that Trump is. Are we gonna call, but Joe Biden cropped, even though there is no evidence that that's true they're going to attack is son for being corrupt, so they need to go on offence and they need to bring back some of the corruption great assets like remember, Tom Price.
The head of the health and Human services secretary, who resigned under pressure because he wrapped up for honey
grand in travel bills for charter flights and like
fleetly, undermining all the drain. The swamp messaging, like tell
story about all these separate events that will get into this later,
tell a story about a vodka trump, getting a bunch of trademarks.
China right, like you, can
lay a narrative and educate people about stories that they may have missed it the time or that seem odd to us now, but will be new to them today. I completely agree with that and we ve all seen plenty of research that shows the political value of making oversight about trumps, corruption, the corruption of his administration and his sort of pension to try to hide that corruption from the american people. You know a message that works that we seen. As you know, Trump said he was going to Washington to clean up the swamp. He became part of it. People are bothered by his cabinet, his administration and the corruption that they ve been involved, and people are bothered by the fact that his family, all
could be self dealing because of cozy business relationships and how they're using government to further those relationships. So I do think at this point post impeachment oversight is you know it is the right thing to do. It has to be paired with an effective political message. I tend to think. Like you said, Tommy they've been more effective. Political message to voters has to do with corruption than Trump being an authoritarian and breaking all the rules, and I, like I said I think, average people don't like the idea that the State Department is using their tax dollars
You know first sort of might Pompiers Personal Aaron's and in trying to hide it from us, and so I think that you like that,
from campaign is already gonna. Go after Joe Biden for like apparent, you know, being like some kind of a swamp creature. Tromp was the one who said he would clean up the swamp. He did not do it. He became part of it. We have to start repeating that message. So while he is working very hard to sort of prayer,
corruption wherever it may exist. Trumps campaign has begun to draw some subtle contrast with his opponent,
In Joe Biden of everything, from pedophilia dimension to serving as a chinese agent and conspiring with
Och Obama to stage a coup against drop. Just you know, just
a few things for you when you say it's
I have to say he's an incredibly effective us
by an international operator for someone with dementia. Yes, you know like very they don't really go together. Like you know, you'd think he'd get lost in as identities forget to put the forget to put the mustache on that kind of thing.
Of these various attacks. It seems like the campaign is actually put,
money behind adds about binds age in those
related to China, though, according to access, will soon be launching states, specific attacks and adds the target binds record on Cuba in Florida, fracturing in Pennsylvania and Trade elsewhere in the MID West love
Why do you think they haven't settled on a line of attack like a single line of attack? And I guess do you think they need to say two things? One is
challenge. I think that you know the reason we ve seen him go after Obama trial these different things- I I don't think they know, which is their most effective message and
They are seeing the same kind of public, pulling we're seeing and I'm sure they see inter eternal pulling. That shows this appeal battle that from faces lotta reporting. That shows that so I think they're casting about
because they haven't landed on something that feels that work. The other piece of this, too, is that
has been denied some of the platforms he uses to try things out, and that's a really big and important part of how he figures out. What is messages heat
like like rallies me like rallies or even using the white like he is. I think
seen that using the White House briefing to be extremely directly political has not always been a smart for him. He's not been doing that as much as you might have expected. So, of course, he's being incredibly
about the response and treating it like a rally regards? Who himself has not
made it a true Anti Biden Rally a time. So I think that
The nation mean they dont feel confident in any one of these lines of attacks and weaving.
Reporting right that Kelly and Conway. You know
wasn't sure about the attacks on age is a the I think amongst trumps advisers Tommy. What are you thinking and which attacks sort of worry
the most I worry about the China attack. I think a lot of people are angry
China and if you can effectively tie Biden to China, that could be a good avenue.
Then I worry about the age attacks, not because
I'm worried about Joe Biden, mental capacity, but I'm worried about the optics of being stuck in your own home during the krona virus. It just makes it hard to undercut this bullshit from the trunk people
the thing like research and knows that these
a running ads in these deeply red parts of the country, like parts of Michigan the floor, to pay
handle Iowa North Carolina. The fact that their running tv spots attacking Joe Biden in those places shows that these are attacks made out of weakness and not out of strength that doesn't
me feel better, but it just shows you the position therein, but the thing they like
Worries me. The most is right.
We can don Junior posted a meme calling Joe Biden pedophile right Eric Trump said Democrats are using the virus to prevent
his daddy from holding rallies and that it'll go away later trump. His
Obama's treason. It's right. These insane
accusations are just flying left and right in the press
I figured out how to cover it yet at all and it's a huge problem right. So, like I look, I know we're
Talking about a re novel were talking to different audience about a different angle here, so that the New York Times like report
without this story about what Don Junior posted indispensably it's about negative campaigning or fact checking this lie, but I think it failed because,
Some people will hear the words pedophile and just have that lodge in their brain right and then something
bull hear them repeat the charges. That Biden has, you know been accused of unwanted touching, and I just think like at some point. You can argue that these negative attacks are part of a strategy in that in and of itself,
is a story, but when Don Junior is posting, something on Instagram or like Donald Trump himself,
is flailing away in a hundred plus tweets on mother's day. I do think the press has to be a little more
judicious about what lies they elevate, even in the context of trying to debunk them, because I think it often fails. I think that's it's gonna be very hard to make the race about anything other than the pandemic, the response and the economic followed, because that is what is most concern into people. So
Matt! Vain, like the best bet for the Trump campaign, is to make this a story about China.
And how like, in order to recover in order to get the economy back and or draw stuff. We need a sort of tough guy president who will stand up to China and that's Donald Trump. He strong he's tough. He can go after China and Joe Biden is weak and feeble, and he can't because he's too tired to China like to me that
this sort of where they are going that still fits with what people are worried about, which is the economic followed from the pandemic and all the other stuff on by
like you said it is incredibly dangerous for trump surrogates to go out there, including his kids and call Joe Biden a pedophile and have the media covered as it does so like. I don't think that's a great at all, but I do think like they are going to. It is hard to make this election and he's about anything other than what's on people's minds. That said, both the China and the age of tax give them an opening to sort of
talk about that and talk about the response and in how binds not the one to respect the right here is an example of this is an AP story. Led accusations of a deep state can spear
the allegations of personal and family corruption, painting and opponent as a Washington insight or not to be trusted its twenty? Sixteen again or at least that's President Donald Trump hope that is taking
bunch of lies in smears in framing them as a strategy in putting it as the leader of a peace story, and it just look. I don't mean to just media basket and made me deeply frustrated for the Bible Camp to read that
I agree with everything you're saying. I think that that the salient attacks will be about China will be about the corona virus, but, like never forget that
A lot of people saw things accusing Hilary of having a kill list or murdering people on Facebook, Beata the other places, and you can cut together a voice
We unfairly edited video. That makes any one look like they have dementia,
or cognitive decline or whatever, and I worry about the way those attacks will sink in overtime, if not properly rebutted as well.
So do think one of the goals here too, is like that. I think part of the reason that AP story so damaging as they there too
campaign wants to great you that in sixteen to at an end, they want to do it in a very specific way. You know you have a republican spokespeople out there saying some version of d,
We'll trunk created the hot economy pandemic happens here.
One? You can bring it back right, so they're trying to basically start from places.
The pandemic didn't happen to us. The pandemic happened to him and then
the goat red. Then we are you. Will you write a new baseline where now you're, not comparing Donald Trump as president to a replacement Europe
Donald Trump and Joe Biden side by side as people taking on what's gonna, come next right and they go
There is right. You try to recreate a twenty sixteen.
Comparison rather than judging Donald Trump,
failures and malfeasance and incompetence,
and your feckless disregard for human life, and what have you and so to me? You know that the the
You're right is it you you get that we set for Trump and then they play what they did in twenty. Sixteen which, as you know, Hilary
second dying? They brought billions accusers to the debate emails you do. We find,
how much noise and attacks and nonsense sort of permeated political coverage in twenty sixteen
now, just there just desperately trying to recreate that environment, and I think
the question, is: can they get that reset right, because I think it's much harder to get that reset in the middle of a pandemic and economic growth,
when Trump is the President obtain it was in twenty. Sixteen, when you could say, Hillary Clinton is part of the Obama administration that you just saw for eight years and maybe using didn't make enough progress. I'm someone new give me a chance that you had a big difference now. Maybe, though, still get that reset with enough money in enough
adds, but I think that's the challenge. They face your right, nice. I suspect that is true and I think most voters will go into that booth thinking about corona virus and think about the economy, but it is,
very disconcerting to watch last week devolve into a conversation about and asking because the dna, this right wing hack releases a list of a bomb administration officials who did something that was perfectly legal and proper right now we have trumpet using Obama of treason and then dumb shit, Don Junior calls Biden, pedophile and that turns into New York Times or it just like it. Does it give me a lot of confidence in the ability for the body politic to filter out garbage from actual issues that matter now zero confidence? They ve learned lessons from turning sixteen. Let's, let's talk about what Biden should do here? The Washington Post says the quote: binds
answers. Aware of what Trump is preparing to fire at him described themselves is dead, set against being triggered by his provocations or engaging with him on his terms, voters will decide the election they believe in response to the crisis now engulfing the nation, not the spectacle of trumps twitter feed. Do you guys think that's right, and how do you think button
respond. I think they're saying the right things,
I think, in reality, be the choice about
and how to engage more nuanced and difficult. But you know one of the lessons of
of the last election is whether you
age on a specific trunk controversy or not? But it's it's it's not it's not whether you take the bait at times its if you're gonna take the bait. Are you able to
turn it to an exchange. On your terms, you look down.
Is saying acts because he's trying to distract from why Donald Trump is making outlandish accusations because of his failure on the growth of our some of this, I think, becomes the kind of you no discipline politics.
That, because tromp is such a outlier has lead people to kind of not treat
kind of ordinary way, and I think at times it just requires a traditional, hard political response. Tommy. What? If you look at me in the
I think that biting people, but taking discipline strategy is the right strategy. You have to choose to ignore some things because,
Wise you'll go down a million rabbit holes, but I do think you need to figure out what's important, unlike pre empt it so
I would like to see Biden. You know running a positive, add track that talks about his bio and his character and its values is working
by a White House, including on
the stimulus sign in the financial recovery and the Ebola response. That kind of I give you a baseline of understanding who he is and why he be good at this, and then you know we all know they trump is gonna, go after him,
your Biden. So, let's see some negative attacks from these super packs or from the Biden campaign about a vodka trump getting special trade marks for her businesses from the Chinese, while working at the White House. What
talk about nepotism and naming your son in law to a job where he's running pandemic response in what a disaster that has been like, I think they did. A great job
highlighting all the times that Trump praise China and she jinping about the corona virus? During that response and all the ways he has ducked responsibility- and it was a great pre emptive strike- I think, there's thinking Bishop
think about ways to do that on some of these other issues that the tropical signalling that are coming, like with tens of millions of dollars of negative, that,
I think, you're gonna do two things. You gotta neutralize the attacks on age and on China, and then you gotta keep turning everything back to trumpet his response right. So on the age thing I mean, you know, that is some sort of the easiest hereby. If you know just the more times Joe Biden is on television, showing energy being conversational, not being the guy from the clip that they're gonna, edit, together and put a whole bunch of,
behind right, so that just that's just gonna require more Joe Biden being out there on China. I think you set a time you write like trumpet
China over our own intelligence experts. Just like he listens to his political advisers over public health experts and that's why we're in this mats of it, you can say Trump took the economy. He inherited from Barack Obama and destroyed it because of his cattle.
Traffic corona virus response that that is the. That is the other side of the reset that but he's trying for right that he inherited a great economy and any fuckin ruined it. And then you just gotta, keep turning it back to Trump right, like people are scared of getting sick
scared of not getting a job. They want to know why the guy they elected president can't fix either of those things. That's it that's the election. Why haven't you fixed it? Why are people so getting sick? Why are people still out of work and like every time, Trump try some of this bullshit and they satisfy lobbying all these charges, Joe Biden, the campaign has just go back to an US and Democrats everywhere. Why haven't you fix this shit? Yet? Why are people still getting
why aren't they out of work? Why haven't you done anything and if we can keep that drumbeat up over and over again, then it's going to be a very hard for Donald Trump to wriggle out of this, I think, but that requires like, without and saying incredible discipline
And repetition and the media will not be allies in this
another job as other job to get like Joe Biden elected president, but beyond that they haven't figured out how to cover this they're going to make this even more difficult which which makes it even more important for Democrats to be discipline
about all of this positive
is brought about tax base, its easy to get
scrolling on your phone all day boy do I know it especially
you're, stuck at all keeping
Tabs on the news may be helpful for some, but constant real time updates can also be
recipe for anxiety. Yet no shit ha noticing that myself
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The New Yorker magazine. I knew podcast wind of change investigator rumour, I haven't been able to shake since I first heard it years ago,
for someone inside the CIA and the story was that the
since he had written one of the best selling rock songs of all time, a song that changed the world- and that was the Tipp star,
beyond this story, and it only got crazier from their listen to all these episodes of wind of change for free on Spotify, an original series from Pineapple Street studios, crooked media and Spotify one other democratical offered. What could be a frame for the election was Brok Obama who deliver
pair of commencement addresses over the weekend one for graduates of each BC.
Who's in one for graduating highschool seniors here some of what he said
more than anything. This pandemic us,
They finally turn back the curtain on the idea that so many the
folks in charge know what they're doing
a lot of them are even pretending to be in charge doing what feels good ones
and what's easy at some all kids thank
Unfortunately, a lot of so called grownups, including some with fancy, titles and important jobs, still think that way
which is why things are so screwed up.
Lover. Would you think of the speeches and in what you think of the reaction, which was mainly framed as Obama taking control of its own and is one of
great ironies of this era that when someone says something like as
not to his as I think p.
We should be nice. It is
taken as a rebuke to the sitting. President of the United States baby, the the
occasion is always that simply by describing quote,
pity in human virtue, just like the basics
treating each other with respect and looking out for other people is a rebuke to the president and they always tell on themselves
when they immediately realise who up. Obama is probably referring to you know Mitch Mcconnell COS
sized Obama for what he said, the most kind of its eight, I think it important and good
frame for the stakes in the election put in a way that is not snide or Austria
at all. It was a completely elegant and simple formulation of the larger stakes of an election like this and, of course, people
Respond as if Donald Trump isn't, President Donald Trump isn't saying the kinds of things he sang every day and I do think trumps response
in some of the other. Responses are reminder that Barack Obama, Philip
force and will be an incredibly valuable ally in the full Tommy. What you think I mean look at those speeches.
First, there are just like really well done and and
to hear, and I also you I watch the the becoming documentary the Michelle Obama Doc the other day and I did
want to watch it? I watched it
maybe emotional. It reminded me of a time when we had decent human beings living in the White House.
I just seeing your bombers interacting with kids, in how much they inspired them, especially like low income, kids
It may be sad and made me wish for a bygone era, but
what use over the weekend was that republic
These are very scared of Obama as a messenger he is, he has the ability.
You cut them down with kindness in ways that very few other Democrats have. He is wildly popular, especially with swing. Voters and Republicans went to the mattresses to try to intimidate him somehow internet speed,
not more right, like the Fox NEWS rolled out that you know dagger shit call Rove who called it a political
rise by shooting right. I think he chose as words on purpose Mitch. Mcconnell was attacking Obama that the idiots on Fox in France are suggesting
that Obama should have taken the highroad after he was accused of treason by Donald Trump over the weekend right. They are very scared of the impact. A fired up pointed Barack Obama will have on the campaign trail this fall and they are trying to pretend that the right thing to do would be for him to be quiet.
This is a former President Andrews, ignoring the fact that the current president has been threatening to prosecute him for the last few days yet
they are scared. Shitless of em I was, I'm-
happy that I was able to watch the speeches before reading all the coverage, because, when you watch the speech absent any police
call coverage of it. You just see like a pair of really
inspiring motivational commencement addresses
That also make reference to what's going on in the country right now. How could they not where that's all we are all thinking about and sort of a you know in.
Obvious contrast, if somewhat subtle, with the person
Who is sitting in the oval office right now. It also goes to show that
like a little
goes a long way with the press when you, when you may criticism like those like, I always think of you know, everyone gets a lot of people now critique.
The left and elsewhere. You know, Michelle Obama is when
although we go high, but.
Basically that was that was brought.
I'm going high in taking the IRA, but setting more than any
we spend on because finally turn back the grown up. Yet it had so many folks in charge know what they're doing and then saying like doing what's yours go what's convening would see that a little kids like that's pretty
subtle, yeah? That is the high road? And yet the effectiveness of Barack Obama is. Everyone knows who is talking about when he said that it is still a devastating com,
Rats with Donald Trump, even now he's
We heard mere what Donald Trump is doing, which is accusing his opponents of being criminals and saying they should be locked up and saying that their petty files and saint with up to mention I write like Braga bombers like could we just have
more maturity, is pretty. I also as it is too quick point and as one I think this
each also does a good job of making a connection between the character and decency of the people in charge and the character and decency of a government and how it helps people or does
how people, which is already, which is always the next step you have to take and too you know we talk
a lot about the ways in which the media kind of falls into trumps trap, but I think it's also worth pointing out that even in this sort of toxic political environment, you know we talk about. You know
in making this point about China that I do think kind of broke through and became something Donald Trump with asked about it again and again, Brok Obama said giving these two commencement broke through
When is part of the conversation to the point where Donald Trump is treating bettered endlessly, so all is not lost. You know that the engine is still running its throwing off sparks, but but but on the other, the cargoes- and I do think that is Joe Biden sort of mirrors, which I think you know he had so far. He mirrors that kind of message that Obama delivered. That is the way to
diet, Donald Trump leadership over the last four years, in a way that reaches beyond only democratic partisans, which is what he'll need to do to win the presidency, because I
if you read at the average voter who might be up for grabs or undecided or undecided about what
they're gonna go to the polls or not. You hear something like what Obama said. You hear something like what binds that you don't see it as a partisan screen like what trumps as any
you still see it s an indictment of the current leadership, which is the exact sweet spot they need to bear. I let's talk about the next economic really. Billing Congress has passed the Heroes act on Friday, which includes the following: an extension of the enhanced unemployment benefits through March of twenty one. Another round of direct cash payments for Americans are true,
dollars to save jobs and protect services in state, local and tribal governments, two hundred billion dollars and hazard paper, central workers, a hundred and seventy five billion dollars and housing support. Seventy five billion dollars and funding for corona virus testing and contact racing student loan, forgiveness and three point: six billion dollars for expanded vote by mail.
Partly thanks to all of you who called the Congress only one Republican voted for the bill, but fourteen Democrats voted against it promoted giant. While the chair, the progressive Caracas White, spoke to US episode and thirteen Democrats from swing districts, they slipped into twenty eighteen midterms, citing the bills, cost and inability to get by persons, support in the Senate or from the White House, both Mcconnell and Trump Repose Tommy. What is your reaction to these swing? Gesture
regrets. Voting. No, are you sympathetic to the politics there? Yeah, I mean look. I be curious to see what data informed their political decision like as a general matter. I am in favour of letting members of Congress or in tough districts vote the way they needs a vote, especially the underlying bill is going to pass
anyway, so yeah I like it, didn't bother me that much. I don't think it's a huge deal. I dont think any voters can ever learned that this thing lost a bunch of oats and you can credibly call it by parties.
But you know, look there's a lot of stuff on. There is money for states, there's money for testing, there's another round the stimulus check. So I'm glad policy did this, I'm glad you like put forward what the democratic version of a relief bill should look like, and now we can fight over it. With Republicans lover, would you think, if you're going to pass the most progressive version of avail out of the house, and presumably your goal should be to lose some of that swing dammit?
that's who I know so they go along with the most progressive vision right. There's a there's, a push in pole there, and I presume that the conversations between policy and
said as much so you know I dont prison,
You know this precise politics of each of those districts, but and look we talked at length about you know what people like Katy Porter have done too to be sure unabashedly progressive, while winning in some of these swing districts, but you know
Beyond that I sort of with atomism, I will say like I am sympathetic, usually to sort of the specific concerns that frontline democrats face. I thank you.
Out and some of them are worried about voting for a bill with a huge price tag. I guess what I.
Say to that. Is you all just voted for two trillion dollar stimulus bill like? Do you think that the attacks on the two trillion dollars stimulus bill versus the three trillion dollar stimulus bill are gonna? Make that much difference, and also like again, my one of my biggest concerns as Democrats will underestimate the rage that vote
are going to feel about the economy come November and are already feeling right now, looking around
and seeing that bigger corporations
they people are weathering this. Just fine and working people are getting fucked over and Donald Trump
is going to have an answer to this. We're going to try to have an answer to this by the fall he's going to say China is taking advantage of us is going to be all anti chinese going to be populist about trade, all this kind of bulshit
when people are feeling angry about their economic circumstances, he's going to have an answer in
I'll say as Democrats need to have a fucking answer on on. While you know took two who's, the
me who is to blame, why people should feel upset over the fact that there are still struggling and still out of work, and we
needed would like drawing the economic contrast with Republicans and Donald Trump is maybe
the most important objective for Democrats between now and a proper, and I do worry that, if we're not all on the same page- and now
Republicans can say well that bill was just a big spending, partisan bill because look at all the Democrats that decided not to go along with policy like I work,
about that, and I and I wonder if there over thinking it but again sort of, like you said Tom, you, like, I haven't seen any data on this. I don't know what they're serve dealing with their districts, but
It would be hard for me to imagine that there's a lot of people in those districts were like guy just wished. Congresswomen spend another trillion dollars as opposed to. I really need help, and I want someone fighting for me. Yeah look, I mean I'm just gonna give members their leeway, casinos. They know this better than I do, but I do think you can make that
case. Without voting for that bill, I mean back to Obama's speech right and he said that the people in charge are no longer even trying. I mean if you look at Trump he's pushing all the responsibility onto states to manage the coronavirus. We declared himself the wartime president and now he's left governors to armed and equipped the troops and do the fighting right and then the other person you can fight against is Mitch Mcconnell. Who says we need to wait and see
and that he's ok with states going bankrupt. So I think Democrats me to run on reopening the country, but do
So, in a way that has all these safeguards in place that to help people as much as possible in the process, knowing that most of the country isn't good word, I could open up completely right and in that part of the safeguards includes testing
contact tracing an expanded social safety net stimulus, and then you know protecting the affordable care act because.
Tromp is still trying to kill the ACA in the court's Republicans voted to repeal it a billion times and now in the middle of a crisis of John Corn, in encouraging his constituents to sign up for the further affordable care act, rights
run on that run on cutting the social safety net in the middle of a crisis are not doing enough on being cold and only helping businesses. I think you can do that whether or not you vote for this specific bill. They'd actuating to both of your points honestly, it's like.
We are in an unprecedented economic crisis, an election that will be conducted in completely unusual way. There will be Senate raises. There will be an incredibly contentious point.
And your election there will be massive voter turn out that the forces
I play in the outcome of who keeps the house and what happens in these districts are so large and actually, in many cases,
outside of what's taking place in that district, that the kind of
Massaging on these individual votes may ultimately be imposed
able to measure, and so really what it comes down to is. Do you think that this bill is good? She, I think people need this help like. Maybe that will be the best thing to vote on yeah I'm gonna do that
bringing back to what we talked about with buying versus Trump, which is like Republicans, haven't done anything to make. You feel safer and I haven't done anything to protect you.
And then I do think you need an answer. Here's what Democrats want to do. That is coherent, but you can repeat a lot. I guess the question now is what Democrats should do next, so there is already some talk that there could be a smaller compromise, build that includes state local funding and unemployment, insurance extension in exchange for expanded tax breaks and some legal protection for businesses. So the question is: should Democrats go for that compromise or
and firm and risk no bill getting past at all Tommy. What you think I mean look at this is hard to know, and so you see the final bill, but I thought
We need to be very wary about this liability protections. Peace because we cannot have a situation where you have a bunch of business, is forcing people back to work and potentially unsafe conditions and then just washing their hands of any health problems that might emerge from it, and I think that that is risky and there needs to be scope to properly. I also just think that, like the PPP programme,
was created with good intentions, but the execution has failed right. I mean a lot of people got loans based on their relationship with banks and not a need. A lot of businesses were given money to pay workers at a period where that they couldn't reopen like we need a just get money into the hands.
Of individuals and, however, we have to do that. I that privilege I paused proposal that you you talked about last Thursday was fantastic like that, would be my focus if I were them, which has to be to make sure that, like this, a workers, first bill and fight like hell to two scope, everything in that direction level.
That you look on liability protections. First of all, I do think that whatever happens like this is what I think it's a contrast to be drawn is what we are fighting for. This is what there
but they're fighting for what we've already seen: spikes in Covid nineteen, due to the on the unsafe conditions at places like meat processing plants. You know, Democrats cannot go along with a bill that ultimately results in.
In people basically no longer being eligible for unemployment, because their technically allowed to work being forced to go into a place that is unsafe where there
ass can do whatever they want, without fear of what happens if they dont protect their people. Immunize does not exist. It's it's! It's not it's! It's not! It's! Morally is morally unacceptable is unacceptable.
An end like its morally unacceptable, and it's like do not give up that political issue for the far like the
liability? Protections are so incredibly unpopular. We have seen the pulling it is like, sir.
Ninety percent of people don't want to give these liability protections to these corporations. They don't want employers to be able to get.
Customers and employees sick without any accountability whatsoever, and
even a majority of trump voters. Dont want that in the end, the last one that we saw
so like. I really would be careful that this now policy has
and saying well, I would only be for some protections for companies who are shown to have followed like very specific safety guidelines by the CDC or whoever, and if the company has followed all those safeguards to the letter.
And perhaps they get some kind of protection so, like yeah, maybe there's some kind of a compromise there like I'd, wait and see the language, but I'd be very careful on their very well there
there could be a version of it that works right, but that has to be back stopped by testing in contact tracing something that Trump has just decided that he is going to push the state.
I do think broadly right, like everyone is fuckin, sick of course,
you guys are- I am the people who have no paycheck.
In their really scared rights. Are democrats need to be in favour.
A safe, phased reopening with a backstop for people who desperately needed in case they can't get their job right. But I do think our posture has
be for some sort of opening up
Did we can't be seen as impediments to opening up?
economy or reopening economy. We have to be seen as people were actively working on the best way forward to do it safely. It is safe reopening that protects, lives and livelihoods, verses, reckless reopening that does nothing for your health and nothing for your job. That has to be the contrast, and I also just would add to that too. I think you know. You'll ran Paul
God correctly a lot of criticism for his for history of bologna, aiding during that committee hearing, but which time in early them
with that without you,
is the one I am speaking of, but you know, kids are out of school and I think that there are a lot of parents doing their best to make sure their kids keep learning down.
In that time there a lot of kids, you aren't learning anything there out of school,
They they're not learning there in an endless summer and the that the the cost to those kids is going to be very, very large in terms of their ability to catch up
what there and how their falling behind right now and like. I do think that that's another place where do you want, I think, is important. The Democrats start speaking more forcefully on behalf of those parents and on behalf of those kids. That's all
All right when we come back we'll have love it's interview with Senator shared brown and conscience.
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I now joined by a power couple
the senior senator from Ohio, shared Brown and Pulitzer Prize Winning writer Conny shouts her first novel, the daughters of eerie town is out. You ninth welcome to you both acreage
I did so good, it will be well you're now what s? The good news is its podcast
How is quarantine going.
How are you doing together? You couldn't we know we have. We have a good
love each other into great dogs, and we are paying
and we can work at home and in a weapon,
lucky, and I just know that that the mental health issues in the financial issues and that you know that there are millions of people who go to work every day, and you know not just working in hospitals
doing enough to service and deliveries and drive?
buses and working at supermarkets and they go home every day
an anxious about. What's gonna happen, their families, it's up, it's a tough, tough time for so many animals,
Let her know, I am glad to say that we it turns out. We like each other very much also because you can loves the linen, not want to spend so much time with them,
I am very happy to hear that we actually do you like it at all. We got that you doc shoe dimension the dog he was needed mentioned. It adds no look. It is a nice, it is. It is a pleasant so
rise to realize you can spend more time than you ever thought possible with a person and not be willing to pay
and you to do so. I would say
so, do that by the way
the senator right now the sentence, keeping a pretty normal schedule, you're going in and out of session. That means you have to go back and forth to Washington. Do you think that that's safe and do you think that that is the right
I've I've already got it and I had no idea how canicans, but I do think that there is a safer waiter proceed. Yeah first of all were Mcconnell is bringing us to Washington every week. I have no staff in the building. I am not asking staff to come, but because weren't session police officers in an food service, people and custodians are there, they don't come to work in black ass. You base like Mitch, Mcconnell they get to work, how they get to work in their exposing
potentially exposing themselves to that illness. I at the same time by violating local public health orders. I might add in Washington, yet at the same
I'm a colonels not doing anything of real substance. To the old groaning piracy is, he said there is no urgency for while he said let the citizens states go bankrupt by dawn. Clearly we got it, we ve got
lot to do and we ought to be doing it. I think we could do a remote we're doing our hearings, remote the banking from a banking and housing at your interest,
any advice as to answer Yes Yeager Centre, cripple the German republic confirm it has been good about his grey cooperative. We ve done it. We ve got a weltered tomorrow, we're gonna have on other Germans and reserve the sector. The Treasury out in Durban, appear among women, Burma. We can do that. We could do everything remote, but the most important thing is not about our going back or not. The most important thing is a complex. They dress these awful public health, housing and economic problems.
It also acknowledges that this unit, who says but I'm going to when he just go in a committee room. The Democrats are wearing their mass republicans take years off
as we all know, if we don't all where a mass nobody is protected and I find that obtain an end, they bring in staff members more than Democrats too, and so these are people who work for them who were being ordered to show up in a place. They have no for business being right now they should not be on the prince.
Is there not been protected by their bosses? I point all of this a little. What what what honey doesn't quite understand, John, is,
public and senators because they are U S, senators, they can never get sick,
I'm right right! You know. I love that he attempted to tell me what I don't understand. I have
fully aware of what they perceive themselves today. I am also very willing to explain
they are not.
Is it new into this virus not entitled to endanger the lives of others, including not just stop at their family members? I felt quite strongly about this country. What do you think is
telling. You know in a larger and larger sense.
It is this kind of machismo of this sort of
masculinity logic about mask signalling weakness that somehow, following public health of officials best recommendations is,
I know you're not tough. What is your, what is your response to? That weakness? Is the fear of looking silly by wearing a mask. That is the weakness that you care more.
How you work- or you care more about what you think, you're projecting about yourself, then you do about protecting other people. That is the weakness that we know what the stricken people hearts. They are. The ones who may be scared
just at this virus, and so there wearing their mass, not because it protects them in public, but today it's the least. I can do to protect others. That is strength, but not that
I'll drop is an insecure old man or anything new
now that you suggest that Centre Brown,
you know right now. House leadership has democratic leadership. Senate republican leadership are reportedly not talking. What are the next steps
actually getting an additional stimulus bill, and I know that you know you ve been
working on some rent issues, utility relief of what are your hopes, forgetting that done in next package. Whether there are our hopes and our efforts are to put pressure on them.
No sooner and Mcconnell emanation oughta be negotiating with policy on whether we stop
with the house built or just a word. Is we just want to open the negotiations? Our spill is a great place to start it does almost every major thing we need on the idea. Does the significant help I put my name
both pockets I'll. Let you know it's almost like Mcconnell and trunk: don't they don't trust local governments and they don't trust individual people. I wouldn't put money people's pockets. Let them decide how to spend it to take care of themselves, so they don't get evicted so they can take care of their kids, so they ought to Japan Day any retirement savings they have. I wanna put money local governments, I don't wanna, tell the city of Cleveland or the city of wine, oh hi, or date in Ohio, how to spend the money they know what they have to do. Mcdonald doesn't Mcconnell sort of all things, all things power. He does it really trust local communities to do what they need to do. The right things for them.
Else it s really a big difference. I think Conny on another facet of this crisis has been the way that the economic immigration has hit local journalism. The advertising revenue has gone in it.
The crisis that has added to an already long running down turn for local journalism at a time when people are turning to local outlets, to guide them through complicated local regulations.
Questions about the way a state regulation or rule or guideline interacts, with the federal interacts with the local around go into the beach
going to the movies going to get a barber whatever that the different ordinances may,
What are you see right now as a way to help support local journalism at a time when places like the plane, dealer and others have been got it well, the plenty of her? I think we need to speak about specifically, because it took full advantage of this corona virus to lay off virtually everyone up from the guild in the few who are left finally crossed over to what is currently the doctrine of the guild is dead at the plane dealer. As of now, which means they have no right to negotiate for wages and working conditions, and it was so deliberate and
This was where I lunch my career. As you know the plane dealer into watch what has happened to this newspaper and this time when we need the information most there's some good reporter
no working there. The problem is a lot of people no longer subscribed to their local newspapers in part, because many, the ones who do
older and they want to get daily newspapers out at the front door, and that is changed as well. We really
are going to have to look at how we find local journalism differently, and there are some grants there. Some conversation about it's going to happen. My concern is that
Organizations are picking up the slack for currently when we actually once crane business, which is actually added reporters to the coverage. I never thought I'd see that I'm
My former colleagues are there now the greater problem here.
Is any you saw what trumps doing with a video of a reporter. Who was he had protesters coming perilously close to him without mass? They were threatening him and Donald Trump Chiefs, tweeting it out as in a celebratory
wait so one of the first things. I would ask everyone who listens to parts of Amerika, because your audience is so large. I know you get frustrated with mainstream reporters at times. I know you wish the journalism were better at times, but I want you to consider the risk their taking right now to cover this president and the people he has empowered to be so abusive into it.
And sometimes dangerous, and I hope your show your support, and I hope you letter was no when you see them doing it right, it's never mattered.
They'll do it anyway, but I can't begin to tell you how much a matters when they hear from you and having that that
for ages from news prob ly on that's what I grew up watching and you don't newsreel long island. Is it down the middle local news?
Out with you know, they're being attacked because of the president's instigations calling them the virus trying to threaten these people. Then you go look at what is what's unused, twelve in its its
in showing people how to look up at the stars and make a no need of teach their kids and like just sort of the basics of local journalism that make people feel like their part of a community. It's really it shameful. Now the presidency creating other people to do that. Other local reporters think about that
so in opposite to what we ve seen from tromp, you have a governor into wine.
HU, as behave more responsibly than a lot of his colleagues,
national level- and I am sure that there are in their response- is by no means perfect, but there is clearly a different incentive structure for someone like the governor of Ohio, even though he's republican- and there is for these national politicians. So so- and it goes beyond just the temperament of this one person both of you, I put it to you what what? Why is it possible for a governor to operate the way he has when you have national politicians like ran pawn, others viewing the politics as requiring, basically a completely different kind of response? There's a couple differences are made to want, or is it just shows, experience and character of matter and doins been doing this for for decades?
he is a man of character. Is a decent guy, isn't defy it's, not a partisan. Thank as I support what he's done. I I will publicly said the wine has saved Ohio. Violence. Lives are well while trumps actions and actions first and then actions. If you kill more Americans, one of the big differences. Does the wine listen to his doctors? Listen
the experts. I action is a river
Yes, your old woman, doktor out of Columbus and she has been terrific
are concerned that the dewie now is opening up the economy a little too quickly, I without five giving workers the projections its autonomy.
We know they're gonna be outbreaks in workplaces.
We know that, with all that kind of gatherings we see in bars and restaurants, but all the ways workers that are going to get her in the web workers are more often under more likely to be women. There were disproportionately people of color.
They're, the ones and yet exposed, and the governors gonna make sure their protected. He hasn't done that dwell green.
Because he said he was not going to require anymore customers, where mass that we were the Republic
you're, not protecting workers. If you don't do that and I was
so disappointed to see him. Do that, because I had been just suggest assurance that has been publicly
supporter of governor the wine? I feel this is a real misstep may in people
reporting back to me I mean I very active and social media and commerce, and always here for people are shopping.
Give me the numbers of people. They see a mass, then the people they dont, while all
Workers are wearing them at again. Let let's not forget, if not,
everyone is wearing a mask. No one is protected and would look.
Look: what happened South Dakota, the huge outbreak of them down the corona virus outbreak among hundreds of workers and the action plan in the press, yard states finally get surrounding using the defence production aid
instead of using it to scale up testing and then then contact tracing instead of using your two to have a national effort to get protective equipment to workers and to everyone else. Ah, he has used to reopen that plant
not requiring the company to slow the line down as part of the problem in these me back in plants not requiring the employers to take care of the employees and protect their help, not not doing anything about the food supply. Just say we got a real
these plans and get people back to work, and that, in a nutshell, is the Essex represents what what Trump is done. All over the country with workers are to workers.
Center. Want one. This question on the politics of this. You know
this crisis has its a health crisis? Is a democracy crisis? It's it's an economic crisis
Do you see this is changing? How politicians campaign
and and and at how do you think it should change? I watched significant. I think that comes out of this is american public's, greater deepened one more day, deeper appreciation of the role of governments and people that has spent their whole careers bashing government insane government can do nothing right. Private sector is not going to find the vaccine private sectors, not gonna, provide dollars the fervour for public health for communities to fight back the price
sectors not gonna, do all the things that we need to keep people in their apartment. All of those things. So I think what comes out of this is a is a more progressive,
society where people recognise the role of government. Do everything from climate change to dealing with racial disparities.
Where, where more and more aware of the damage is caused by those, those that hinder them,
great revealing if you will the pandemic, and I think we will act accordingly, especially with the new president next year. Conny, you wrote a great peace.
About. Why is important, still allow yourself to feel joy during a time and
there's so much hardship and so much pain. How do you think we can simultaneously holds of guilt and grief and joy
during a time in which we know how much pain and suffering there is. I almost think- and I thank you for your kind words about the peace- is every colleagues that I didn't want to squander the joy that remains very years. I've thought and talked about grievances.
They got sneak up on you? Had it not found the door and it's not,
go away and you were invited in you. Get bored with each other, it's almost as if we slept at grief, seems to be honoured.
Underlining emotion right over over art, maybe in that the joy can sneak up on
now, and we have to let it in when its banging at the door, because I dont think it will wait around a little quickly flee and we are we
always more complicated than our Wurzburg do justice
We are always better than our worst mistake, and I think that the
We're in sub letting in these small Joyce it suddenly had taken in such larger, meaning open. Is it because they sustain us,
and they remind us that this is not our forever more, that we will not always be this hard enough is really hard right. Now that there is any I've had tremendous losses myself recently in one of my oldest friends about forty years just die, and the thing is
the more I looked for pictures of her there was preparing to write about her the lighter he started to feel because we had such a history together. These are the things we have to hold onto because were more than just our grief. I was beautiful, genuinely
One final question on a lighter note, for both of you- and this is gonna- be tough right. I mean as you, both
answer to say yes or no question, and I am ass, you
But to say your answer at the exact same time,
You can ask me too,
I shut my eyes lit the rules. Here is the question.
Is Senator shared Brown doing
his share of the dishes. One now through
my goodness yeahs either I cookie Clean
No, I only way we I make breakfast she concerning else. You know it you just blew it might all. As I took out a list of good about it suddenly gone by-
he does bring breakfast to me about every single warning he's home everything away.
With a budget of this business, so this pandemic spent talkers I'm home.
Every single day and he has a I get no half days on this.
Oh, oh, oh
to limit right. My husband
rejecting our relationship,
you love you John you're, very either. I love you both eyes.
Hey. What are you doing this? As such? I am a nice
to deal with some really hard topics and am grateful for both of you for taking the time senator sharing around Connie
or else you reached out very early to check in unless and until your memories at their private message, and I will never forget that- that's who you are now thinking
but you haven't, you ever make her breakfast endeavours that don't you
I actually, I will tell you I will tell you, are right: there is a dirty pan from which french toast was produced right. I will just say that all right it happened,
thirty, four Ella not look. So I ran a time. Unfortunately, we have to just. We just have to go. I thank you both by
thanks to Sheridan Uncanny for joining us today,
and I will I will talk to you guys later this week- see as proved by
see you fellows, see you chance
pod save America is a product of cricket media. The executive producer
Michael Martinez, are assisting producer. Is Jordan Waller its
Stan edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is our sound engineer, thanks to tie
you so many Katy Long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline rest in at least a good two years for production support into our did.
Team Elijah Cone, Normal Coney and Yell freed in my look him who film and upload these episodes as videos every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-05-31.