In the aftermath of Comey's firing, what can Democrats do to hold Trump accountable? The Vice Chair of the Intel Committee, Senator Mark Warner, joins Jon, Jon, and Tommy to discuss the latest on the investigation. Plus DeRay on Sessions, Snowden, and more.
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welcome to POD save America. I'm John Favour. I'm John love. It and timely report on the broad. Today we have the vice chair of the Senate. Intel committee centre remark, Warner
and later will also be talking to the host of cricket media's pod. Save the people directly cousin has gone guys, IRAN good forget. We should just say that we already recorded them our corner part and it's a very good interview
if we do say so ourselves, so the curtain Leon Lula do say our selves
that should listen. Speaking of love, it self promoting love it or leave it. This Friday we had an awesome motherly
with Camille Non Johnny, Gareth Reynolds and learn left us that you guys should listen to you right now. I'm a big fan of the show, but I think that this was the funniest one. Either way
and we're going to introduce a new segments. Yet the show became present.
day at the hotel, in LOS Angeles, wouldn't be doing alive
show with mere Eric our city and
you will all be able to listen to it because it will be our Thursday upon. So just everyone. If you come great, if not you'll hear Thursday, they can come it so that you can't come etc
our shared authority are gonna, gets all right. Let's talk about,
Jim call me there hasn't guess they now, as I would Jim call, because that
world were stuck in. It's amazing, like
There were two weeks your or like guys. We just have to touch me with TAT. My commie little more, we know, are all kind of sick of the topic, and now here we are so last week where we last left off the story are here
basically what we term told us to to lie. He threatened call me back
just then he might release a secret tape of their conversation and he basically admitted to obstruction of justice by telling Lester hoped that he fired call me because he didn't like that is our campaign was under investigation. So the first question is a week. Out from this now must we got is trying to get away with this is this? Are we
is this just what we're gonna deal with now like men, because how many different things can we do here to hold him accountable at this stage?
again at this point and not the power that we set the bar the democratic and only gets in either or I don't think it's a whole them accountable or not hold mechanical. I think that's. Obviously the lack of you know. Fortitude on the part of the republican leadership means that he's not gonna be held to a standard that he should be held to, but slowly but surely you see that, like you know, he's not getting backed up by people like Lindsey Gram right, there's gonna be a wheat there's gonna, be a movement to have some kind of investigation, whether that be a push for special prosecutor, an independent commission. We don't know, so I think it's ay another kind of weakening of trumps ability to do this without accountability. Yadda, I think, is a significant strategic error. It showed him to be
petulant and short sighted and unprincipled as we all suspected you it. He would be then, going on to tweet a threat at the FBI director that let everyone in the world to believe that he is secretly tape. Recorder. Conversations in the White House is another huge strategic error, because it gives democrat something to seize on. That's very simple: Arthur Tapes, yes or no, if so, release the tapes, and I think that should be the entire democratic message. I think it's interesting if you look at pulling that actually health care, that people are far more upset about and worried about, and that's resonating states, but to the agreed that Democrats are trying to stop him from doing anything,
Washington it's a great distraction for the press corps, because they can focus on anything else, and rightly so, what's out yet that there's an effort on behalf of some Republicans or lot Republicans, and especially some
You know in the media and the right wing media to say our democratic hyper ventilating. The media's had ventilating about this its and just make it sort of a team thing, but, like we have seen, people that are non partisan, like James Clapper, said that the FBI firing amounted to an assault on the country's check,
imbalances, David Ignatius toxicity, taught reported the wash oppose any talk to various republicans this week and dumb quotes. Were this guy scares me
there are no guy rules on this presidency and quote this is Richard Nixon on steroids. Rights of these are like republican senators and congressmen that he was talking,
no none of them will speak out very there very brave under the cloak.
Anybody Republicans, I wonder if one of them is Rubia it doesnt from day one. It has been very clear to me that you cannot possibly underestimate the degree to which is going to distract his entire white, our staff and team, as are trying to do other things on a political level. That's a good thing for us as Democrats as a country, it's a really bad thinks we need these people do their jobs, but it's
had they wake up every day and read about how because Trump lie to them and made them spin one thing one day in the opposite: the next day now he's going to fire them and they pick up political and they ve there's an entire story written from Clinton AIDS telling them. They all need a lawyer up and
no? The baddies, scary, is hell if you're sitting in those jobs and in these people are not can be able to do anything else and like the culture of inviting in game a thrones, bullshit and leaking is, is, it seems like it's all, consume yet, and it will give a thing to us. It's obviously consuming for the White House that the head of the FBI has
Job is not just to investigate Trump, his universe. The world doesn't revolve around. Don't drop he's one of the nation's top counterterrorism officials. The FBI director, is a real fucking job that you need a good person in their doing shirted. While so, let's talk about that so far with some of the ways the Democrats are thinking about, trying to hold trump accountable here, trying to bring some accountability to. This should show trump by the end of the weakest.
To appoint the next or says he's going to appoint the next FBI director quick turn around by the way for appointing
but with a ten year term, that's gonna run the limitations top line forces you not to do it. What well one thing that I was just or if you look at their what they ve learned and like the last couple,
in the one thing they learned is when you have a slow process, run healthcare bill, people find out
agenda. They don't like it. So when you kind of this sort of like governed by sucker Punch, they throw something out there quickly get a through before anyone
the ability to kind of raised the alarm and stop at and that something they could definitely try to do with this appeal. I know her. I notice that with obviously John Corns name has been floated, he's the number two Republican in the Senate, longtime Trump supporter Peut,
party, her crush an absolute shell.
It is unfair to chuck humour to say that this would be like Barack Obama pointing chucks humour, but it is similar its exact. Oh, it just imagine
Right, it's an it's an investigation to Hillary Clinton, females and brok- Obama tells us your hold. While when I fired the FBI director
I did think to myself. I dont like this email investigation and my new, my new FBI directors gonna, be Chuck humour but like reporters right when they floated corns name aloud intersect. Well, if it's cournand, that's gonna
he's gonna sail through confirmation, the Senate, because Senate Courtesy,
bob I am like I was at least Linsey Grim has taken
a bit of a journey over the last week, because he started by be apparently according to new sources. He was the one on the phone with
saying like fine? If you want to start right as the area I go for it and now
saying I dont think corn and should be the pic
phase that ITALY Old Centre, a grand ho drifting in the wind
here on the I now tough issue. I now I guess the question is: do you think? Can we
again like we need for everything in the Senate. We need three Republicans
to say no to a Trump appointee for them to block it, and I don't know I don't mean it with corn and maybe Graham I don't Otis Grand vote against Cournand. I have, I think the problem. Is it it's hard for these guys to vote against them, but maybe not as hard for them to signal that they dont
this to be picked, so they don't have to vote for him. I do not mean you are Rubio, say. Ah
born in and try Gouty, those would be wonderful, picks, witches, fucking despicable, yes, Sir,
Marco Rubio man. This is supposed to be a position that view does not partisan and he's not it's not a lifetime of women are judged ship. It sought a mule departed in politics of the president. Can fire co me, as we just saw? That said, I mean ye want a technocratic individual. You want some of the comes back, underline Foresman that someone understands like what's going on in the bureau a day, one in a junk corner does not that person treaty ideas, not that this is like a simple message from democratic should just be
no politicians and no FBI director until a special prosecutors named yet and until you wanted to do either one of those two things you'd, you take care aggregate released the tapes it so I would also just like to put that, but what we should do wish and it also heartbreaking the idea that you could
someone like John Cournand, because it just shows such a lack of respect, regard for like half the country like it's the FBI,
you actually pertinent Republicans in the Senate, dont gain anything from having a partisan FBI right. Maybe trumped does personally because he's a criminal but like
public incentives is for ten for ten years like this is one is a place where it's easy to care about your a ten and an unlike, even if its you're going for wine, like don't you
care at all about demagogy. Don't think they matter at all. You know think these people in your district manner at all and they don't they don't they don't care because the name their floating as marriage garland, because they want to get him out of a very important judge ship and into a job or Donald Trump, could
I and the next day. It is the most cynical ridiculous, like five wadding nonsense. Himera garland do and give up your lifetime appointment for a job where you know trumps, gonna, probably fire. Today's that's a great great trademark, Ireland, so bullying or just reported today. The Democrats might force procedural votes Tom. You are leading to this that require trumped up either give up his court unquote taped conversations with co me or admit that he doesn't have them and made the whole thing up. This raises a broader question: should Democrats grind all Senate best?
to a halt until they get him to admit this on the tapes they get. The special prosecutor, they get an FBI director who's, not a politician and non partisan, mean how how far should Democrats go or can Democrats go to you? No hold them accountable
far, I don't know I'm I'm I'm usually a weeny about this, and I am now in as do everything possible by any means possible. We are in a totally different reality here. People people need. We need to make this a big deal in and push them in every way possible to try to get some sort of answers in terms of the tapes minimum.
That, like I have no idea, and it may be no way of knowing no confidence in this, but like that felt like a classic trump empty threat, which is why going too bad to find out that there are no tapes makes me feel like while autonomy
you document healthcare, but I don't know, but I'm gonna. Moreover, the dumbest things possible. You know I'm either here a pathetic liar again check or your taping people secretly mishandling. There's a lot of history in evidence of empty, really taping deal
it's an interesting, I'm not torn about it, because I think we can be obstructionist like them, no fuck it. We should be obstructions just like them. I am torn about it because what you are too soon to other, which is the message right like if we go, if we grant all business to a halt than it
We make the story for the next, how many weeks as the Senate's ground to a halt, this investigation, restoration to the detriment of talking about healthcare tongue by tax reform, talk and all the other things that people probably care but more in the country than they care about this investigation. But at the same time, he fucking fired the F b I director, because he was investigating him like too it is it. It seems,
such an obvious abuse of power that if we let this go, I dont know how we move on from here. Like you know, I just think there's something I know that people may not care about it, a ton right, but I think that sometimes that might not matter Ciba Geigy. This drive me crazy business review these these stories. You saw like one day to day three days later, they say Washington care deeply about combing being fired, but the country shrugs me. I thought I hate that kind of reporting, because he too people formula opinions, overtime, and it is also a fact that we have an entire rightwing apparatus that literally
will not report on the fact that Donald trumps explanation timeline everything about why if our economy has changed, complete doesn't exist in our doesn't exist in their world. Just liberal
stereo? Well? Yes, so the
He was a journal. Pushes our thing
so, as you also journal, had a pull out
this. Over the weekend, twenty nine percent approve of drum firing. Commie thirty, eight percent disapprove. Thirty two percent had no a penny
why one of the people was Hilary. Although nineties,
represent, have heard about the communist, so there's a contrary to what some have reported. Like many people have heard about this thing now it was interesting. Were you just ain't armies
you have heard a lot about co me your way more likely to disapprove of the firing, rather than if you in her just a little bit about roomy. So it is an information thing like if you pay attention to the news that page in the reporting, you think it's awful, if you probably wash Fox NEWS, which is barely reported on it or just report on
Democrats hysteria overcome me or you will pay attention, is at all. You dont think it matters much but like if that's the case, that shouldn't stop people in Washington from pushing as hard as they cannot
some people are paying attention to the new somebody suddenly made is by like only washing and cares about this. That's where they make the laws threatened, her better or for worse guys were played along game here. Ok, approval ratings, like thirty eight thirty, nine he's got. Eighty percent approve Republicans but independence, removing you still seven percent Democrats who seem to be cool with himself. We have time to slowly a road and chip away people's views on him. By just talking about the crazy son he's doing out there. We should miss an opportunity, this clear cut. I've also that some will Jordan
weeding out Paul numbers from the Watergate era. This week I made interesting so sure
Dixon resign couple days before he resigned. Fifty nine percent of Republican still said no. I seemed another question asked right before he resigned
is the media, covering this issue of Watergate too much. Fifty one percent said yes, so even back then, right before president resignation, he had the base with him.
And he had a bunch of people thinking the media was hyping. This too much things change very quickly, while that
very slowly and exchange rate? We just don't know
I do agree. I wish I guess I die it's a it just a hard question, because, even as we should make this central what we're doing
You have thirteen guys somewhere in the Senate, Rightness Healthcare bill,
You know that's an ongoing issue that really does have a data to impact.
People's lives and it will be more central to the mid term elections. Young adults hard. It's hard.
And you know it. You could also make the case that the more this Russia investigation and the call me stuff hurts Trump politically, the hot. The easier it is four Senate Republicans to break with him on things like healthcare, their right, and so it might actually help these thing. Yet, in your times reported essentially what you just said that Republicans were beginning to break from trumpet feels a little premature, but I do think Democrats can walk and should come here. I think weaken the indivisible and all these groups doing great work send people the town halls can and should continue to do that they should continue to talk but healthcare it as the primary economic challenge we face, but we also should let this go because it symbol and weaken. You find a couple create a senator at which look, I'm not the hopeful here, but a couple people thereby centres of command said. If there are tapes they need to be released and simple, yeah, and also by the way, it's not just about hoping that they be courageous. It's about it requiring less courage to do the right thing and that's about tramping, less
pillar. It's about that sort of dynamics around this issue. Changing Weena, Jana, rottenness rivalry started that, like you know, Trump said this crazy quote less to halt and address now did their thing were there like that I get him. Is it over regulating captures the feeling like I did? He say it did he say it and like because this is a-
the oral question and I'll do your question. It really is about how it feels and how it sounds and and the further we push the further we push like every it. It seems impossible that this was the craziest week we ve had so far, but it s
that ends and things are changing and getting worse for Trump at him alone. Worst enemy. We also and love. I know you are talking about this, but there's been a lot of impeachment talk about the thread you mean holding him accountable for the question is impeachment talk. I am still premature. The time is right.
Or who the hell cares. It's not gonna happen anyway, until a long time. What do you think so they all the issue of impeachment right is so now you pot, you have trump possibly committing obstruction of justice. Right on one hand, that is a legal you know. There's a legal characterisation of weather was obstruction of justice are not, but impeachment doesn't rests solely on some legal judgement right. It is actually the political judgment of members of the House of Representatives who have to decide on this right and
decided back and ninety ninety eight, that Bill Clinton had committed obstructs from justice and they impeach them. Some legal scholars and lawyers probably said booklet had not done that right, but the house decides. So it really does. I dont states beside the point, but it does seem like look until you get a house that would plausibly vote on impeachment. It seems very premature and also which is Letterman Oak, as a lot of people are like own between patients, like even if the house, even if we won the house back and twenty a team in a hazard to impeach I'll trump. The Senate you'd need sixty six votes in the Senate right because you need two thirds of the Senate. Sixty seven sixty seven, seventy two thirds the Senate, otherwise he's acquitted so like worsening you're talking about how to get like fifty three votes for things- and you know sixty as the threshold for filibuster,
Are you going up to sixty seven? It's like the question is what more, what crazier could happen after this week that will convince sixty seven senators yea at this guy's gonna gotta? Who knows we don't now at my own? I do think, though it's like it's like MP, it's a little bit like you're like a snowball.
And it has to roll down hill, and you don't know how big is going to get. You know. This is a political question and there's only there's only two ways of live oak.
That can be answered in favour impeachment house either things the dynamic get so bad for Trump. That House Republicans tell him basically that they would vote for it. He or the dynamic it so bad for trumped that we win the house and then we can a pitcher. Might I it's so far away to start talking about the Senate, but like
man, if we're at the point where, where, where are the high crimes misdemeanours place, we're not talking,
We don't need sixty seven votes. We need what thirteen Republicans road,
change their minds and and that that starts to become a different, a different thing. I just think that, like in a world where Donald Trump is being and peaches, it's a different world in the one word living in right now near the thing to do as the new members. If the Democrats, when the house back before you even get to impeachment winning the house, gives you subpoena power, and it gives you more power in this investigation right which Democrats more perilous vacation, which we have not had up until now, there's no like hoping that you're republican counterpart plays nice. If the Democrats, when the house back, they will be able to find a lot of these answers here that I guess what I was as I don't know, but impeachment talk. I think if it feels quite transfer this moment, I want to know how talking about impeachment, helps us or hurt us in winning the house back, because that's all that matters me because if you want to fantasize benefit,
meant that's fine. What I think about is the consequences of winning the house, and I think about a Donald Trump. I think about how do you stymied Donald Trump, from continuing to be a to this country, and I think about two years of Donald Trump being investigated in the house, whether he's being impeach or not
while funding off some kind of primary challenge throughout two thousand nineteen into doesn't twenty and that to me
a very exciting possibility and it does really hinge on doing everything we can to win the house. I grew up and also me up expression to it. I think I am
is it. Is it like an easy way out hoping for like this back to the Lester hoping from us, and now that, like
one stories gonna hit or one
and sir he's gonna give that ends at all, and we don't have to worry about working hard and registering voters and winning back thousands. If I bet that like this, this is like dinner. The immense fever here. Yet it like
there's going to be something that just drops and that's gonna, be it and, where applicable, to go home it s. What we're not gonna find a square cash transfer from like VLAD its chair and skirt, yet no better way to brighten. You know like even in cases where there was clear under your farm, are likely to get someone who lies about their role in it or cover something up or you don't think, that's how these things unravelled and they turned the cup so as to cover. So we, yes, we are hoping, I think, a lot of progress as are hoping for waiting much out of the rush investigation. We should get to the bottom of it period is absolutely critical that we do so, but I dont think that there's going to be sought meat. I hope there is about giving me silver bullet that leads trumpet out of office
May we shouldn't dream, but it's like I'm there's a thing called the quadrennial defence review, where they kind of look at our belief of life,
wow bear with me back
but where we were very were bearing an end, it basically about making sure militaries up to the challenge of what we set, which is basically, we had to be able to win one war while holding back and other adversary, and I feel like we need like to keep in mind the quadrennial Trump Review and like we need to be able to fight on the Russia front, but we do, but we just need to hold
there. We need to be able to win on the other front, which is the policy and political front while hope, but while doing everything we can to win on the run
front, em right and we would want to try it if you like, and we don't want to ignore a lot of other extremely important issues there, also possibly politically potent last week. You know we didn't talk about much Jeff sessions,
sort of rolling back a lot of the sensing reforms that Eric holder and thereby administration did so now he's? U no heat and Friday. He ordered federal prosecutors to pursue the toughest penalties possible for those convict
possessing even the smallest months. We want, as we should have double stamp on how this is such bad policy. The coke brothers think this yeah terrible policy, Brok, Obama, Exeter Bossy, cause, you're, locking up for life, nonviolent drug offenders and you use we sending people to places like Rikers Island and they come out destroyed their not human beings anymore. It's also so out far like it so outside a consensus that extends from freedom,
six to like the centre for Marian Progress, that most Republicans in the Senate are in favour of a criminal measures. Warm all Democrats, Retriever Criminal Duchesse, form actually
only reason, Weedin pass a law on criminal justice reform. Is that Mitch Mcconnell pulled it
because people like Jacek Asian and Tom Con another villain in the story were like. We don't have an over incarceration problem. Even under incarceration problem is that which is a fucking nuts tugboat bi partisanship you had Chuck crossly ran Paul MIKE Lee all wanting by partisan criminal justice reform, and now the term administration is overturned, that it also there's reports over the weekend that trumpet sort of pissed
its sessions, because one person in the White House there was working on criminal justice reform was Jared Kosher in session. Just
it is one thing because sessions is the worst thing that Trump has done to this country. It is a point just sessions to this just actions. By the way we deal with those who is interviewing the FBI directors, even though he was review accused himself from the rush investigation. God we get just sessions getting just sessions out of there would be a big step forward that kind of task as Jeff, Cessna, Smart and he's wily.
And he is careful in those keeper else can hide which, which oak tree ASEAN, which not which, where where's he drizzling fudge
Delicious, treats today
into the pursuing racist in criminal justice policies.
In addition to their public and continuing to try to rip away healthcare for millions of Americans. Others elsewhere poured over the weekend that their planning massive cuts to programmes for the poor food stamps welfare veterans benefits because there's no way left to cut in the budget and the need to pay for this huge tax cuts and they're not gonna touch discretionary than I can such non discussion. Programs like Medicare in such security dark. So down
I made a promise, which was, I won't cut Medicare, so security or medicate, and they decided to reverse the one that affects the tens of millions of black people import people. It is
so if the other thing that's part of his two, so that their desperately trying to get their balance, their budget and ten years. Of course, that's not possible without huge Benny cuts or tax increases. Now, if you remember there, is this whole talk about how the Republicans wanna do about your first, because that's where I will get the revenue that will get the runner tax reform for their budget, but one thing that this article notes is
the republican health care bill cuts a trillion dollars from the budget, but it's only a hundred fifty billion left to make up butter. True or false, why? Because it includes massive tax cuts for the rich already. This is. This is a thing that is annoying me for long time. Stop calling trumps rhetoric and policy populist, stop calling Steve Bannon some populist hero. This is the opposite of populism. When you're cutting Medicaid when you're cutting income assistance for the disabled, when you're cutting veterans benefits, you are sticking it to working people to help people who don't want the estate tax.
Cleaners, plutocrats, drunk with power. That's what we have here. When we come back, we will talk to Senator Mark Warner. This is pod. Save America stick around as more gray show coming your way. Pod save America is brought to you by wink. You have a great glass of wine
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on applied today, we have the ranking member of the Senate. Intel committee, Virginia Centre, Mark Warner friend of the pod position. Second,
parents on a crooked media. Bon voyage.
There is an extra have me on, although guys you know I'm actually vice chair
as chair of the official tat, which I think gap, which I think is probably better than
he member? But I'm not sure I think, like most people, don't know a ranking member means of vice chair, ranking member of us and from a state when you are the vice chair and from the Commonwealth were over to aim right.
Right, guys say no, no fake news on the pod, I heard Tommy's a state of Virginia and parts of the world, and I was like my men were from occurring now we're both time and the same thing that cut deep. Oh ok, let's get into it. So obviously
We do not know, what's in President's Trump mind presence from mine, which is a good thing, but am, but fortunately we now have to gas, because he told Lester halt there. When he fired co me he was.
Being about how this quote. Russia thing is made up story, so do you believe it was an abuse of power to fire call me. I believe that it was beyond bizarre
here. You had beginning a last week. Sally Yeats format
the attorney general saying: she'd modified
the White House.
They waited seventeen days to fire or get rid of General Flynn we had
after Commie was supposed to be coming in talk to us on Thursday on Tuesday night he gets fired and then they
originally with this wild excuse that
the reason they were firing. Him was because the deputy,
only general had written a memo saying that come. You didn't treat Hillary Clinton Fair now, who would really
I think that this White House would say that a hawk the nine months after the fact we now we ve got a reason to go after call me, and so
that lasted. I, oh I met with the deputy attorney general, I said: are you of this
Honestly, this done your memo didn't past the laugh test and
I did you write it. How is it written was at the real reason and
luckily or maybe not luckily button within him.
Hours of that meeting. The present
I know who had nothing
with what the deputy a train general was gonna, recommend or not. It was because of this involvement with the Russia thing and candidly
that involvement with Russia thing this White House may be. The only group of people in America didn't don't accept the fact that Russia, massively interfered nor elections, have used tools,
this information and fake news and manipulation of the internet in ways that are unprecedented and they use
I'll get the present onstage firing ahead,
FBI who's in charge of the investigation, you can't make the stuff up since Saturday think that when, when he appoints a new FBI director that democratic
should make a confirmation contingent on sums
clarity on whether or not there are taped conversations of of the his meeting dinner with co me or in pledged to block it
that happens. We're we'd all I'd already suggested that we not
confirm whoever the present appoints until we get a special prosecutor now because candidate, I voted for the deputy attorney general, Mr Rothstein Rosen Stein.
I was, I told him. I was really disappointed with
this memo. That was not what that was not believable yo. He needed
gain credibility in the best way could regain credibility is to appoint a special prosecutor cited
We all hold off on the FBI director until we find we get that special process.
Appointed which he can appoint. The deputy attorney general can appoint that individual, which wooden slow down the investigation which
still mean that most of the lawyers working out of Eastern District of Virginia would still be the the prosecutors.
Looking into this, but it would mean that there is at least another index
of independence there,
That was all before. Of course, you gonna to stay with this story every day as new things happen, and that was even before
or the President made this
allusion to the potential of tapes,
as we have known any student of history, knows president's, was
could tapes usually don't end up in a good spot. So I do thank you
It's gonna be important and I think the president will be forced to say whether
the tapes exist or they don't exist or whether he would just make an stuff up causing pleasure. What? What exactly does a special prosecutor give
in this process, because I know that after the whole can,
darting. There is a law that lapsed la beyond,
sort of the norm of this guy being you know,
traditionally, admittedly, this gets really complicated.
Probably only your listing audience
we'll be interested and cunning? Actually getting
the distinctions there used to be
an independent council law. That was,
individual lawyer, that kind of stuff
their own shop there
he or she would be appointed by three judge Panel- that
the genesis of White Water and a series of other independent council activities. The Democrats ironically lot that law expire at the
and of the ninety, so Independent Commission, Independent Council,
short of a whole new law being passed and signed by this president cut off the table,
the same to a degree. As I know, a lot of your listeners really want
an independent commission and I'm I got no,
I'm with Independent Commission. I only say that an infinite commission, which would be the
dear that somehow the house in the Senate would again pass a law. The president would sign it and my fear for folks were concerned
about the president- is any
can the commission would end up having a lot of appointments made by this president, and you really believe this presence can appoint truly independent people and that would put the whole
destination off so
the nine months before they could. The law could be stood up and for Democrats YO,
you would have the president making appointments the majority making appointments the minority making employment, and I think the ratio would be dramatic
we lessen the Democrats, favour on it
and a commission. I know we're getting confusion, but again your audience follows and then on the special prosecutor, the special prosecutor is,
one that would be appointed by the deputy attorney general, since the attorney general sessions is already had to accuse himself and the debt
the attorney general, could appoint a special prosecutor that, in a sense
get some independence,
Haven't you get every approval
along the investigation approved by the normal channels and the Justice Department that special prosecutor, if they
We want to bring bring charges which,
we'll have to go and get approval from it
but the attorney general, but
This gives one more layer of independents now, if that was not too
we confusing to your audience
I apologise, but it was really are three separate bucket special prosecutor, Independent Council and Independent Commission over
you, don't have to worry about our audience keeping up because they are the
I know they're keeping my office every day and texted me every day they they are. They are focused their the Tipp of the spear. So ok, so you seem to and I'm feeling that broad field, many excellent. So so you come to a little bit of
water here on the independent commission we ve had the head of the FBI's
higher de Tournay generals Jeff sessions who to users
the legal term, is terrible. You have
the newness in the house having to step aside, because that an investigation was cover.
By his own sort of going to the White House and being ridiculous out of ship is doing great work. You are helping
led the intelligence committee in the Senate kind of what is hopefully a kind of basque
ten of independence. Here.
James call me has said he wants to testify publicly. You said you wanted to testify publicly do feel as though there
publicans on your committee are committed
independent investigation. Are they putting the country first? I believe
Many of them arming, remember the descent.
Intelligent committee. Is
one. The ratio is eighty, seven, eight Republicans, seven Democrats, so it's a close
ratio than most committee's second, it's gotta here.
We'll be in by Parson. Third, the chairman Richer Burma,
he last week when the call resign are coming, got fired. Sorry, not resign fired
did. One of the strongest statements of any republican- and I tell
we ve had some bump so along. This has not been a smooth course I'll be
first to acknowledge, but every time there's been a bum because
publicans on some of the Republicans on the committee, like Susan Collins, from main and James length from from Oklahoma Marco Rubio from Florida Roy Blunt from zero. They have really weighed in when
Ben, some jostling that says, hey
we're going to follow the entail
every leads, and we ve got
so chairman were last week. I take it easy,
after the common investigation? Saint we're gonna, saying to the staff both of a single staff, we're gonna fall
no matter where it leads. We're gonna get this done when I do it in a way that we can be proud of the product. So maybe
Some of the folks, some you guys, are shown the folks within the audience. I know that's not the perfect solution, but this is the best
option. We have to get to the bottom and get the truth. Have you talked to her yet about commie testifying publicly and do you think he'll agree that com you can testify Boggley, I think
fact. It german bird was very supportive of
bringing in coming to testify. I think you I'll talk.
The more today
I cannot imagine that German, but I wouldn't be supportive of of him testifying B.
Our committee or some other committee. I think the entire committee would be the appropriate venue and ill
I heard back from direct call me that to won gonna make it tomorrow
the daily, we initially invited him. I get that this is kind of a
a joke to his life? And I imagine he wanted to fail,
No time to collect himself and sort through it
Jim coming deserves a chance to tell his side of the story, and I think the american people went on one here. I do to set out what thing I've heard about the focus of the US.
Until just committees. Investigation into the russian hacking is that this
education and precise knowledge of the targeting is something that's being looked at closely specifically that Russian by
for targeting Clinton, voters at the precinct level to suppress their votes with fake news and at that level of expertise,
Meyer Data from a targeting firm, like Cambridge Analytical, for example- is that true,
a few times anything but the nature of the russian hack said I'm hearing about well
when you see
some of the explanation in some of the fact that it appears that,
example: women in Afghanistan,
and were targeted in places
Wisconsin in Michigan or the demo.
It's. What you brain dead realise those states for even imply out we,
say that your accept all the time. It was interesting that those states seem to be targeted where the bats,
they can create a lot of these vague twitter accounts. Facebook account could, in fact,
overwhelmed the targeted search engines. That would end up saying on your news feed. You suddenly got stuff. That said, ah, how repentance sick or how are you
and stealing money from the State Department. That's yoke
the fact that the Russian until services,
figure out how to manipulate the boxer in use the, but whether they,
know how to target states in law.
Annals of voters that the debt,
rats, weren't even aware really raises some questions and I'd I'd, be, I think, that's a worthwhile area,
how did they know to go?
that level of detail in those kind of jurisdictions. I wonder if they just
ass Jared like trumped, those authorities will find out. You will find out more to come on that. Also, obviously, you can't
HAWK alot of lunch specificity about the investigation itself. But back in March you
a part in the house at him shift said he has now seen quote more than circumstantial evidence of collusion between Russian.
Trump campaign, do you agree with his characterization
you know I really like that set up. I know you
can't say anything out here: you're money, who is also a lot, but we are now to be shipped quoting respond, not my first rodeo boys. It is. It is generally while you're collecting your thoughts, we're doing a great job in a great shout. Are you? Are you guys what brought sparingly Lester holder? Do we gotta get out
A on on Mr Shifts comments. I am going to say
yeah I've been using more the smoke analogy that this
White House we keep saying, there's no they're, they're you'd, think they'd, one o clock
great if there's no there there and it feels like each other.
There's more and more smoke, how's that for an analogy we'll take it we'll take it or the UK,
I mean in addition to smoke.
It's getting exponent, Clint Watts, testify that there have been more dead right watch you by the way, justified before the frightened into committee. He deadening audience, that's right! That's why I first heard his name
and he says, find that their been
dead? Russians in the past three months than that are tied to this investigation, their dropping down
even in western countries, and has referred to the fact that eight russian policy,
genes activists, ambassadors and formerly former Intel officials have died since you a selection, general clapper,
but to a question about this,
Coincidentally, series of deaths
think rate alot raise a lot
eyebrows last weekend. Do you think this is something that we should focus on? I should be part of the investigation
fresh. My memory on what coppers response was. You seem to think that they have more brow
Lee that we are under assault from them,
only. I I believe that the Russians have
been successful at both
her fearing an election
and so in chaos, and they also obviously got the candidate that they preferred to be president and you,
one of them remarkable things. It says, if you add up all the money, that the Russians
written United States of Europe all the money they spent in the Netherlands, where the Dutch had counted their ballots.
Rather than machine counted, because they were afraid of interference. If you add up what the russian spent
french elections where they jumped all those emails on mccrone right before that, the final weakened,
and if you
presumptuous, really add up the money they spend trying to interfere
the german elections yeah that altogether
let alone maybe the loss of life and some of these of officials you're talking about what two to three
percent of the cost of a new aircraft carrier. So
I worry at times it we're seeing this new type of war
from the Russians that they can
an pennies on the dollar, compared to what the United States is
in more of a traditional sense. Now again, I support our aircraft carrier fleet. We build them in Virginia, but term. This is
a new type of assault, and he, I think, you'd have to four
objective. Standpoint say the rush Russians, at least in terms of their overall view, Putin's overall view of what
make american liberal democracy. Look bad has a has been pretty successful and updated,
good return on the rouble.
Wondering clapper also said, is not only our institutions under assault from without there. Also
salt from within right now, so you have Russia doing this kind of international campaign against democracies and will obviously be threatened again.
In future elections, and then you have Donald Trump seeming to stir
the stymie any kind of investigation and turn at what point do we have to press a different button and and and raise rays
Different kind of response here, you're doing good work, work leader,
in the Senate in Committee, but Senate businesses continuing ah two things to make two comments. First, one of them really disappointing points, and I made this both in them, it politically
the open hearing, when I asked the leadership of the entire community, alright guys, you know
we ve seen all these actions. Russians have done. What are we doing on a government wide standpoint to prevent this?
happening in twenty eighteen with congressional auctions and twenty twenty and because
this, is kind of a whole new area and doesn't fit neatly into department of Homeland Security
here, the Intel community or geology
once I got was very unsatisfying, so we need
full of government approach on how we're going to prevent this from happening in twenty eighteen or the Russians going to say how are we gonna do
return on the rouble for doing this,
and twenty sixteen where we can really
but up even more and twenty eighteen number one number two in terms of the president. I know that the pace
from your audience that were going
bout is not as fast they like frankly as somebody's pretty impatient. It's not always what
pace that I'd like to see, but to do this right in
do this meticulously. Do this in a bipartisan fashion,
the end of the day to have confidence in them.
Your audience and even some of the folks who support the present would come to hate this legitimate, illegitimate consensus
That's really important and then in terms of the active
so the Senate, I've I've said we should not be appointed
FBI director, and shall we get that special prosecutor? I believe
We desperately need to find out whether these tapes
this number one to make sure that the preserve and three even
republican colleagues this past Sunday,
agreement might said if their tapes Congress you're gonna, get a look at him. So I
think we're seeing movement. You kind of across
the whole country from all parts of the kind of the political landscape
There are saying hey. This kind of behaviour cannot be countenanced and we ve got to follow and get all the facts out
and call me will be part of that- I think frankly, the the
there's we sent to the Treasury Financial Centre for Confidence Department,
follow the money issues
a whole new area, the investigation that may be
provide some valuable input. So what
can it this any more,
all areas, and then the Senate Investigation selfish. We ve gotta gone through and and looked at them
raw intelligence. We ve got some more follow up to do their confirmed
what we already know about russian interference or not
starting to get to some of the people that were affiliated with a Trump campaign. We ve sent
one subpoena. If we don't get
all the information we requested. We will be sending out more subpoenas, two more individuals. I hope the fact that the first subpoena went to Flynn will well
Let me say the word convince
the witnesses they article hadn't cooperate with us, but work. We should use our tools that we got Carter pages.
Some MSNBC set somewhere. Hopefully the shaggy I'm out of here, I'm not sure mister page- will be necessarily them that the final truth revealed
The question is like what levers of power we have to get some of this stuff done, like you know the special procedures
is dependent on whether Rosen's dined decides to appoint a special prosecutor,
this decision trying to block
new FBI director. You know. We obviously would need Republicans votes for that because, with the twin votes, they can appoint a new FBI director without any Democrats. So, at what point to Democrat I mean: are we left with either hoping that
We get a few sensible Republicans in the Senate to come along does
demand. Some, this accountability, or you know some democratic, talked about
holding all Senate business.
Tells on ice happens like what's our choice here. Why?
There are many of my democratic colleagues who, I think would be in the back of the bucket of oil. Let's just bring everything to a screeching halt. My fear on that would be the that. What gives
organs, while I think will work with us want to work, for this may not be fully there, yet that gives them an ability to four
the kind of rally as a team, because, if we look like worsen
I remember how frustrated we all were with the constant
destruction. We saw against merit garland than against during
ass couple years. Frankly, most of the years of the Obama administration, as so, and that you
unified. The Democrats, I'm a fearful that
we simply trying to come up the works on everything at this point,
Republicans who are working with us already and many others who I think we will continue to
We will work with us if you continue
see things like tapes in this to call me firing and other activities yo the
back into? I hate this team sports.
When actually this is much more important than team sport is just. This is much more important actually than even
Mr President, this is about whether our democratic exist,
and can be maintained in the twenty first century after we ve been there assaulted by a
that at least when I grew up with our leading adversary. So I guess
understand about that is? Why would democratic
democratic unity in defensive? What you're talking about cause people
Lindsey Gram or Susan Collins or or ran PA
only the other people or been SAS or any other people who have shown some sort of semblance of cards throughout this process? Why would it? Why would it? Why would why? Would they too
against the idea of an independent FBI. Why would they cause them? I don't exist, but I dont think that they will turn against an independent FBI. I dont think I dont think they will. Even
one against our efforts to say: hey, we're, not gonna confirm anywhere,
I director, until we get a special prosecutor or into we, get it
listen to the tapes
Those are all things that are still there's a nexus and a connection.
If we say, as I know you guys, in parts of of
The resistance would want us to do we're just gonna bring everything to a grinding halt. Then, though,
Republican senators who have been working with this war might be inclined to work with you to say. Ah a
fortunately, overreaching at this point is much easier for them to go back into a foxhole approach, and this is this is too important?
and who's gonna score short term political points when we're talking about fundamental characteristic of our democracy mean you I've
I have said this repeatedly- and I know it sounds a little hackneyed at this point- that this motion
one thing I ever taken on in my public life. I gotta do it right. I gotta look bad
the innovation, so this product is close to possible, is
by partisan and there we got to the truth. I think it's gonna be one
better chance of getting to the truth. If we can do
with some collaboration cooperation with our Republicans, because, frankly, the ability
get it all. The information improves if we ve got a bipartisan approach
you come back on and tell us when it's time to pull
fire alarm in, and you no longer have confidence that this thing is proceeding in a by parties.
We have said from the beginning if at some point this, you know this
this avenues. Not not working ll be the first to sign up for another avenue, but recognising and other avenues require passing a law and then require this.
President will make appointments to a commission that I'm not sure
be truly independent but worst
to pick up the pace right now. This is
and any were starting to see. Obviously, reactions wouldn't put remember,
having this conversation. Today, less than a week after the president fired the head of the FBI
this is amazing mean that no FBI has ever been dismissed and
without cause, because I would not call the fact
he's doing an investigation in the president legitimate
the fire, the FBI, director yeah. I don't agree with either so last question, certainly
so much of your time? It's easy with throb craziness trumped up forget about the real, even more
interest challenges happening out there in the world, let over the weekend the North Koreans.
Tested a medium range ballistic rocket and they can carry nuclear warhead, which is viewed as a major technology.
A leap forward in their programmes. Have you been briefed on this advancement
in our view is concerned. These news reports would would leave me.
We should be.
One I'm concerned to I'll get a four brief this week, three short of
Jerry strikes the only way that weak
rain in North Korea and North Korea is with
active involvement of China, Russia actually, uniquely enough
and South Korea and Japan and that's where we
a full fledged strategy, rather than simply relying on the President saying he's had a great deal.
With President she so I would put the North
Korea Incident, but the other instant I would put up there a few. If
audience wants to stay up at night in France, which I spent a lot of knights doing. That was the
was a mass of cyber attack that took place on on Friday that showed what ability to conduct extract, Ransom and
across the whole Uk Healthcare system in a series mostly of european and russian computer networks, the Asia
become nature of cyber threats
something that I believe cannot writ large deftly ranks
three in terms of overall threats to our country and and yet we
we. We shall rely upon technology that in many ways
could be our Achilles heel
on that journey, none other than that things are their tune this week, stateroom this week before we talk next time, all will be. Eight may be a chance to look at those tapes, awesome well set out one or two vice chair of the entire committee from the Great Commonwealth, Romania. Thank you so much for joining that users guys ticker, keep up the fight you do don't go in
this is pod, save America and there's more on the way positive amount
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the pod in studio, we have a host of positive. The people are the room, a careful it's great to be your guys, it's so much nicer, Independent institute in me. I decide on me the other day in public.
We saw on Twitter is great, advocate
we're gonna talk about branding and whether you should became voters at the growth ass. Fine, I love it. I haven't seen you since since another party that would be bad for random and I saw you live taping somebody else's blackest, birthright
and it was at the hotel, we're gonna, be on Wednesday night
tobacco wins a seamless, Somalia Mass needed. By, as we have them, we have. The marrow essential is unsafe. Thus, however, so
the buck S go, and I feel it's gonna get. You know areas this no unity, interview ass. We know a lot of a lot of energy so trying to give it up and get back on a regular cycle. That's good,
One of things you mention you may talk about this week and we were just talking about the pod- was the Jeffson.
And this decision from last week to roll back the Obama administration.
Forms on sentencing. What was your reaction to that it? I
I sit on the funding that there's something about Trump, where there's a competitive crises right, there's so much gone on the piano it'll look here. This is one that we think we have far reaching implications and carries a color beak
the way. The mandatory manoeuvres and things like that have just functioned. Some help
on the pied. This week we actually talked as some people from the d, a J or the former deejay about this
somebody rights people, but this could be
really damage getting. We don't know what the consequences are yet, as I could just happen so rosy, but it's important that prosecutors even holder came out. The statement that was like this doesn't seem like a good idea, like it isn't just outside of the consensus on on the issue to right now like there is a movement of both parties to take down the crazy level of senator than just such as outside of that completely. But for me, like I look which our sessions does and either he doesn't care about the implications for people and not the
unfair way, which is going to be executed or heave use it as a feature, not a bug. It arose and seem to the deputy attorney general at such agree record of being like this sort of like impartial, good guy,
the first thing he does a piece about Commie, UNICEF, lap and roses seem like. You are now part of an awful legacy that is building at the deejay. It is true that, like anyone who comes in contact with Trump, somehow, who decides to work for him ends up alive,
their integrity being made to lie being made to look like a fool being embarrassed. Somehow, you know, like I'd intervening,
illustration. The big question was like: if you are a very smart, talented professional, do you and you are
to serve somehow and administration. Do you do it because you're trying to make sure there
but people on there and the country doesn't fall, fall apart, you can watch was happening or do you just say? No, because you end up looking like a fool, it seems now
like you say, no haven like anybody, have legally gaily yeah, maybe
over the weekend, who said when one ass he ate his ear. He can fire you, everyone, men, as a government, not really how it works. The interesting to about the sessions decision is causing to question this notion of who is to decide which fair trade,
when you deliver this edict that is sent you, like. You, have ten percent
the harshest citizens, ethical? What about it?
Can a jury re like they are the people, I suppose, Isaak? What tat ferris consequent is life
He is stripping that away it's exactly what many terminology to people too, because the question is what are the pressure points on this, like Dear J makes this decision sessions makes this decision and then like,
What can we do about re like? As do we have to hope for another push for bipartisan criminal justice, reform and sort of legislation that takes care of this or that things the p
the ground can do? Or what do you think it is always? You know one of the things that were mindful of inactive Sunni as if it's not illegal than you can't be charged for re rise like how can we
roll back, some of the things that are just consider crimes and actually shouldn't be crimes.
Eating Minneapolis when the moment first began in Minneapolis as illegal as final to spit rate
so, like spinning, was one of these sort of livestock crimes that was disappointed about removal coloring. Only by few are being my charges- spitting
you like this is not trains and they were really baffling spitting like taken off the boxes like a crime, you, like
make sense of that is actually one of the easiest way to do. It is like a few distich criminalizing things. It shouldn't be criminal and decries. What the maximum can be like that actually goes. A long way that interview you did with was Snowden was fascinating and everybody should listen to it. If we had done with this dollar zone absurd positive people, how did that come to be? How did you get to know him in
t up- this conversation seems like a long time coming it. Don't you out you not. Snowden is now at my best friend you writing on. Did you know we had I tweeted about citizen for about a year ago two years ago, and then we can touch after that an end we communicated in and went back and forth, and we send a broken into public conversation. We just had gotten around to it and then at scandal. This before call me, and then we like did in the know how
you heard it so he is holding up on the phone and at all, but I was really shocked at his praise. Obama was interesting. I didn't expect that you know also to accept and asked him if he thought he was gonna come back and he was I get ok, I don't gamble
form was interesting is as do you miss it, and he was like I've always of the internet
eleven imminent now, I loaded before that's fascinating, but is very interesting, thereby this every year
Would you think about him? You want what we went: national security even on the other side I bear I've. Yeah I've I've evolved over
I'm a lot about this. With the thing I thought he's such a smart person, he so reasonable sounding the
that I've always struggled with. This is the amount
information, you talk like there's, some very clear over reaches needed be fixed. Like involves around
Eric citizens. I always wondered why he needed that many documents and I dont feel confident that you know
able to protect these things from the Russians from the Chinese from other until agencies, but him as an individual, a guy. I've found it to be very impressive. Moreover, one thing I want to talk to you about over the weekend in Charlottesville a torch wielding mob protest to the removal of Robert E Lee. They were chanting. Things like Russia is our friend
and you will not replace us, those that were not white supremacist, we're just why people that love our heritage. What what are you
what's the reply. I might be a classic. I do what what's the response to that right. Like do you, I mean some people say: oh you, just? U dont give them more coverage,
You don't get the more attention by talking about it, and people say no. We have to organise against them like, what's the best response to clearly racist garbage. Like this
that would in pointing out of my house, was that there were some counter protein
is re, who, like head candles out, they are being like. This is not the city. We know in Israel
We don't believe? Instead, that is important
they were just not allowed to be out there alone with their tiki torches, and I love the territories as widely on sale of the warmer yelling. So hateful you need to be like a stylish, bigger and racist. You know
The biggest thing for me is like remembering that racism is not too long gone right. Some people think that, like slavery and lynching as like really were, racism is opposed to like people. China with torches today would later happening
the best way to counter as I keep moving forward the progressive agenda and like don't like back down, is part of what fear does? Is it supposed to make you too afraid to us? I re like your support. I feel like you can't make it.
Back. Then you can't do anything and that those who were one- and I think that it is helpful if you will push,
but it still remain a distant has happened like today in all this is not a thirty year ago, a fifty year of a problem. This is like a today problem. You last version view we ve been talking about this today. Are you were
that this combing story and this Russia story sort of
dominating the new cycle and all
us on the left sort of focus on this hoping that about, you know, provide the the fodder for like trumpeted finally resolved.
And impede store get in trouble or whatever? Are you worried that we
focusing on that, to the detriment of all
other issues that are both important and you know, may actually move voters more than the rush investigation? Will
I think that this might actually be the thing that gets him out office quicker than everything else alike. Let's focus on this as long as it can. I get my their didn't. You know it s. No now do you think this is like tooting to written. He was like now fray, like. I think that this is like we should be looking at this activity fired him is wrong,
for anyone who wants cannot. Do you ask any idea. This is like a basic thirteen like I can. I tell me alive delays and I love you like other was on it and now it's like China was a profit
I think that it will be fascinated see as public hearing like there? I cannot wait to tune in to him and Sally Age. She just likes it at the table. Together this go back and forth. I love the idea that trump things you can intervene
Connie by saying that you recorded him as if James combing, the most careful per right, what it s like that you're sitting next to John Tropical, like yet Donald Trump Nature. He sounded good on this, take Gimme a break. I hung up. I call them a human word toilet and show. Over the weekend I mean colleagues,
nothing to lose right. What what what is coming incentive to hold back at this point public testimony anything like what does he ate? What can he would
Do you really think you know not only that the doctor again says he's so tat? I thought I picture here. I like it that is like a shelter something land it was.
Meeting a basic Martinez like he's again, his dioxin around, we think he's a good family guy, and he does this testimony that, like shadows, Mcgovern
I can't wait to up what takes up the transcript. Neither to small people
I do think that I got Gore. Such appointment is probably like the least talked about a most damaging thing. That has happened,
That's gonna be many many years of bad decisions, it's like he does it easy on the Supreme Court wildly and his lilies Republicans lately have been saying: oh, don't worry, there's gonna be another one that he gets to feel too. I guess shadow foreshadowing that maybe Kennedy written you know retire.
Or something like that way. It Elsie rose away in the letter I sent her vitamins here. Every week we Edison Green JUICE is right. We ve bought or are very, very worried that she has a step and tab. I want to know that that there is no lip of just a step on technology a shower in the morning I want. I want that to be just a clean surface, didn't lassitude Sarah, a lot of those I want those on out of those messy those pad those paths that kind of great grip see not slip of the tongue. I want the whole house cardinals thanks.
Ok. So everyone are their guns subscribe. If you haven't already two days, pod, positive, the people and endless and on tuesdays zeal later, take your guys thanks again to centre remark, Warner and Dynamics.
For joining us today and we'll talk together, very good shouted it I'm very pleased with ice.
With. We started with self congratulation and that's where Randy under saying in difficult times, but I feel it
covered a lot of base in difficult times. Our conversation with the ranks of here and looking at me, I could forget about the whole thing that their bread
I like to let on going because there's music and it's nice and is for the true vents,
Transcript generated on 2020-04-03.