Well, replied: save America, I'm John Fabric, ambient driver on today's pod. We talk about why the republic, in response to vaccine funding in fourteen hundred dollar taxes, you're Susan, Mr Potato, head. Why dont Europe is fighting with the Republican National Committee over the use of his name in why some. Credit strategies are worried that the parties, twenty twenty performance among some latino in black voters may spelled trouble for the twenty twenty. Two mid terms too quick notes before we get started crooked new sports podcast hey line, premiers on Tuesday March sixteenth each week award winning host Jason, Concepcion and two time W Nba champion in Atlanta Dream, CO owner rename

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Let's get to the news. Now there that in Biden is set to sign and then sell the incredibly popular american rescue plan? You may be wondering what kind of arguments congressional publicans are making to explain their unanimous opposition to the legislation. Well, we ve had some ma performative deficit, hypocrisy. We ve heard it's a path to progressives, even though red states are getting just as much money and half of all Republican, motor support the bell by what Republicans and right wing media have spent the most time arguing over the last few weeks. Is this: let's talk about doctor, say stock since the doctor says doktor soon. After stop disease, doktor serious doktor suits doktor Doctissimus doktor suicide doktor soon got to shew stock tissues, doktor sues, not pursued. So the that's. That's Recovery from our friends at media matters about how Fox NEWS has been handling this terrible controversy also been on them.

If several republican politicians, here's a clip from sea pack, look out MR potato head your next. I'm sorry, I think now he's going by potato x rays, nothing, the radical left, one cancel Hasbro now, once a gender neutral, MR potato head. These are the issues of our time spokes and the minority leader of the House, Kevin Mccarthy, who should be leading the opposition to the american rescue plans in this whole Kok has voted against it. You think this would be, on his mind, here here to save eat them with the mouth, and I will them here and there saying You don't anywhere do so light green eggs in here. Thank you. Thank you. Sam I am enjoy your day

you're funny, so I originally wanted to avoid this nonsense, but it is the republican message. Media matters found that Fox NEWS spent over four hours. In one week I mean- two potato head: doktor, zoos and by neanderthal comments. They spent just a few minutes on a point nine trillion dollar piece of legislation. So you know they want to go nuts. Let's go nuts. Dan, why or other woke lives ripping toys in books from the hands of America's children. You're buying the premise of the argument with that question give me the only receives books Dan unit, the specifics of these votes, controversies or the broader themes of them. I think we should start with very quickly going over the specifics of controversy that do not want to dwell on them, but I do think like I was one

and who is not paying much attention to either these controversies and just heard republican screaming about Mr Potato, head and doctors use getting cancelled and then, as I dug in unfortunately into the details. Missy realise that most of what they're saying isn't even true, so we should probably start that I would start with the potato head issue: has borrowing ass. We raised our pod save America in twenty. Seventy into to fight trumpets and fast forward to what its March of twenty twenty one Let's start with the potato head issue, while, as I get here, this is directly tied a troublesome, so stay dude people. I know I know it is the potato, at issue is particularly dumb because RO for years s all day, Mister potato, head. And a MRS potato head, the better

those available in those sets were identical. They would like potatoes and they came with a different set of accessories. Now they are moving towards a symbol potato head to which you could dress with those that are accessories and just they're laughing off the MR part. In this just won't. Do it How do you explain why this is happening? Progress by people like TED crews, care by basis we and elimination of redundancy, but also just to be clear. There's still such is a MR potato head and MRS potato head. Those still exist. You can get a Mr Perry Did you get a MRS potato at the large? brand is just going to be called potato head. That's it! That's the only change spit nets and this is a border titles- to a larger republican strategic objective, which is a very aggressive, bigoted campaign against the Trans community. That's what that's! What right that? That is what is it that

or of the potato head issue? The doctors use issue is even dumber The short version is the corporation that owns the copyright and publishes the book. The runs the Doktor Seuss business. There Why then publishes the box that licences the carrot, As for movies and tv and toys decided start publishing six of his many box, because a very clearly racist imagery. This has been our nations having for a very long time. The republic in response to this was to by all of the doctors, Seuss books in protests of the people who Quantico band actors is therefore by them from the people who made the decision to. Publishing these books and giving them my guess is very similar to when they broke other cure eggs? it's a very similar sort of self, but this is the Guy Administration did not ban these books. The Holly What a lead did not ban these books

we believe to be the Doktor Seuss AIRS decided. You start publishing six of his books that they believe too many people agree contain blatantly racist imagery books go in and out of publication. All the time That is not cancer culture that his book burning. You can agree with it, through that there's a more complicated conversations about how you deal with book said: have re symmetry. Complicated histories by this is not mentioned. Eighty four now and again, Doktor Seuss has published like dozens of books, hundreds of They were talking about six books. Six of his. A lesser known books. By the way, can you see get a cab. My hat you can t, can you still get eggs and have absolutely? Can you still there? the Grinch, you still Christmas, a hundred percent, but there are six books that and look this not like borderline cases. Here these are you look into it. They are very racist images in those books which doc

pursued his estate, decided on their own they're, not gonna, publish that's it. That's all that happened at a lower dealing with huge controversy, huge controversy. So before we talk about sort of like what effect this might have, whether this is politically effective or not, or all that like, but about why publicans are doing this. This is not how Republicans responded to the recovery act on other responded to the affordable CARE act back in the Obama era in both whose cases they made arguments there were at least loosely based on policy about government doing too much government spending too much government giving away too much to people who they believed were undeserving. Why do you think they are doing that now, Republicans focusing on culture, wars and identity, politics, because they know how popular the american rescue plan is already think they'd be picking these fights, regardless of

the plans popularity it's a little bit of both. I think there are three things that make twenty twenty one different than two thousand and nine one and perhaps more than anything else is the Joe Biden is a white man, from Scratch Pennsylvania, and he has not Brok, Hussein Obama, from Hawaii via Indonesia, right that is the transport one. We should they. Part one that is not just a saying that, like a lot of serve. Additives have even been saying at like see pack and at a trump rallies. They can't sell, merge, making fun of Joe Biden. They can't get people whipped up about em They can't get people really angry about em they're trying to sell Antiopa merge. They can't do it, there's still selling ETA Hilary stuff and obey.

Stuff because they can get their own base to be that angry with older, moderate white guy Joe, but in its not because Biden is more popular than Obama, was then Obama's pro ratings this point is presidency were ten to twelve points higher than by spines are stolen credit thereafter, above two percent, there very good Politics is more polarized now so there's Orban, apples and oranges comparison, but it's not like Obama was this very divisive unpopular present, I'm using credibly popular he just the republican base was more fired up about him. For the reason we just seven, they are about

about point number two is american rescue plan is much more popular broadly and with Republicans, then the recovery ACT was the America Rescue plan is pulling north of seventy percent prior to passage and adding that the exact same time the two does not recover act was pulling fifty two percent and you have upwards of half of Trump voters supporting the american rescue plan. So it's harder to pick a fight on that when half of your voters like it at the third reason, is that republicans are divided and we wish our guns and previous forecast, but there is a long history of local science. Research and comments and showing that cultural issues, unite the Republican Party and divide Democrats, while economic issues unite, Democrats and divide Republicans and where you have a very popular economic package on the plan that is incredibly divisive, so republican, so they're going to talk about the thing that unites them, which are these cultural issues like

gotta go cancer culture. I also think either in the Obama years sort of the central dividing line between the parties was this debate over the size and role of government right. That was, ostensibly what the tea party was about. We start talking about deficits and debt the whole time. This is what the entire twenty twelve election was about between Barack Obama at Mitt, Romney makers in takers. This is the Paul Ryan thing. I think Republicans have essentially lost that argument. In some cases they have abandoned it. Right, like the Paul Ryan Wing of the party, is, does not have same power. Influence at once had not even close and Trump does not really give a shit about the size and role of government he's not that kind of conservative nor

a lot of the Trump biased politicians and the fact that in our Donald Trump passed a two point, two trillion dollar rescue package. When he was president and and also passed, another huge tax gotten didn't care about the deficits. Mostly, he doesn't care as much about that debate. The Republicans also have more of a working class based than they had before. So the idea that they're gonna be the party that just pushes unpopular tax cuts for the rich, and popular tax cuts for big corporations and cutting regulations could protect air and water and and stuff like that, like its, they know that it is those those policies aren't as popular. Even though there's a lot of congressional republicans like Miss Mcconnell, still pushing that shit which will talk about, but that doesn't really animate the party anymore and they sort of lost that debate over the size and role of government, and so there

for all. They have now are these cultural issues and not just cultural issues, but really it's its identity right, like politics, has become for them pure identity and the best example of this was in twenty twenty. The republican Party didn't. Even put out a policy platform? The policy platform was just whatever Donald Trump wants us to do that with your at year I did it he's a republican voter is being for Donald Trump. It is not about your preference for a certain number of policy issues at all any more I think you are correct. That sort of the debate about size of government has shifted in the decade since Obama has to recover act and being in the middle of a pandemic has also affected that, because become more people become in more need of help from the government, whether that is financial help. That's a relief check, that's a shot by the

every debate about size of government deficits ultimately boils down to a debate about the wrist redistribution of taxpayer dollars and political power from white people to non white people. Ronald Reagan grew the government, while it is defence side by while argue about water queens, which was a racist stereotype than a full, a false and raise the stereotype that It is easier to make that argument when its Barack Obama at the front of it and what I didn't get us to be understood in this. So that's one to the core elements of the republican Party. Since Richard Nixon and civil rights movement are shared victimhood and restorative of nostalgia, and that's what this is that share shared This is about other chronicled others elites non white people coming to affect your life and to take your power away to say the things that you care about, like that, these totems of a different era in America. Mister

flash. Mrs potato head and doctors zoos are being taken away from you, and that is a proxy for the idea that, as the country becomes more diverse, political power shifting away from people have always had a white Christian and would you hope against that's what make Amerika great again is restored and sounds idea that we are going to bring you back to that period that has always been their strength, and that is where they are trying to go. Well. A work or not is isn't. Question will discuss, I think a lot over the next couple years, but that is that is what is it or of cancelled culture, define broadly it's also This is sort of a subtle difference, but it's not just about what's being taken away from you like they're, so, like you said they are trying to fuel grievance and resentment against elites, not just delete with economic power, but with cultural influence,

so they want to tell you that, like these lives in the media and academia and corporate Amerika, now in Hollywood are cancelling Doktor Susan, Mr Potato, head, because they think that your tastes and your beliefs and your traditions are racist. Sexist and bigoted, and so, if you're, someone who has read Doktor Seuss to your children are, has a doctor's use. Books are remembered, after cease from your childhood. They want to tell you that liberals think your racist because of that and they will cancel the other cancelling the books. They're gonna come for you next. If you dare say that you like a doctor, suits bucks, and so they want people. They know it's not just even about their own. Base anymore, there now brightening it to anyone in saying, if you like anything or have ever liked anything that the we now decide. In retrospect, as time has gone, and, as we have all learned, grown decide is raised

nature has Rachel beams. Then you two are racist and they are calling you racist and that is sort of, I think, the driving power of their argument, or at least what they think it is that make sense. Now the question is: do you think it has any appeal beyond the base? Obviously this fires up the republican base like that is obvious. We know that, but does it have any appeal beyond the base and does it need to effort to work? I guess Richard two different questions. I dont believe it has appeal be on the basis that it serves to functions that could potentially a nearer to the benefit of the Republicans in TWAIN to and beyond mid term elections are turnout elections

and some of these fires up the base. That is good that helps them. When that's part, one part too, is it unites the Republican Party which they need to do. They are divided and they are divided on a whole host of pretty fundamental areas there. As you point out is there and irreconcilable tension between eight, mostly working class based that has on populist economic leanings and aid, party leadership that is put a crack and corporate destination is funded by declarations like that tension, Does not survive a conversation with a minimum wage, it does have a conversation with a whole host of cultural issues with racial and Miss Ashton, mystic undertones. So in that sense it is useful and the other thing it does. Is it blots out the sun the right wing media has a giant megaphone. We are talking about this. There's a lot of self analysis about why we are talking about it by it it moves the conversation off of other things

and that is also of benefit to them when they, losing the argument by a pretty large margin on a whole bunch of other more relevant issues by the american people, its authenticity general pay the vaccinations and the way President Biden is handling the covert pandemic. That in in ways that Donald Trump did not.

Yeah, I would love to see some focus groups on this, particularly of people whose switched parties in recent elections and people who switch between voting and not voting. It is kind of like uncommitted, partisans and that a couple things you have to unpack with with these issues one is like: is this information getting two people sort of through the funhouse mirror of conservative media right? So a do people think about these issues. In terms of oh, I heard all of doktor suited his books are getting cancelled and MR potato head is going away right because he is there and we need like awoke or potato head or whenever it is so foresaw. What their hearing about the issue isn't necessarily true, because it's coming at them through

all the lies that that that Fox produces doesn't run over to even if they agree with the Republicans on these issues. Are they voting issues? So, if someone there's a voter who says yeah, I agree that cancel culture shouldn't come for Doktor Susan, Mr Potato, head or whatever, but I care more about a higher minimum wage in the rescue plan summit about with the Democrats, so that its it would be interesting They both how these issues break through two people, what their views are on the issues and how much salience they attach to these issues. So are the actual voting issues and on the other question too, is. Is it any one of these issues that drives vote or is it sort of a large?

world view where you are living in a small town somewhere, and the Republicans and Fox NEWS, get you to think that people in big cities just don't give a shit about you, not just your economic interests, but like your culture, your way of life, they think they know better, they think you're done, they think you're races, they think you're neanderthal and that's how Blue America on the coast thinks about small towns right and in all of these issues. Doctors, potato head, are just another sort of proof point in that larger narrative and is that larger narrative actually have some our in those smaller towns is a question I would love to know. Yet I had my like me to see research by a wad of tromp success. You doesn't. Sixteen is related to his buddhist sell that latter narrative you just had, and that is what that's the magic to they're trying to recapture

and it is very consistent with how Richard Nixon one and sixty eight and seventy two. It is very cords runaway gets message in nineteen eighty. This is This is we like to think these things are all new and Donald Trump reinvented, the Republican we all, but it Donald Trump is much closer to the standard republican politician in terms of message. A narrative then is comfortable for a lot of people to deal with and last question on this before I move on how how, if at all, should president buying and Democrats respond to this council culture bullshit so far, by them has studiously avoided talking about doctors, Susan, Mr Potato, head of imagine that, but you know this this, this is gonna, keep coming up, I'm sure you'll come up in the time to mid term censure Biden will continue to ask about it. So well, Democrats, how do you think we should respond

There are two elements to this answer that are different for the various participants: Johnson's Lonnie, who is turbines story was Barack Obama's. Poster is really in his expertise. As winning in red states strictly in the south. He had a quote the day that there is no outside in German. Talking about this, you should focus on the pandemic. The economy get writing the and I think that is exactly right for Joe Biden. There is no upside in engaging this at all. The question will be for other Democrats who were on the balance between two I dont think potato head and Doktor Seuss, are going to be issues that people from our budget, the narrative where those the other things that make that point and you're gonna happen deal with it and we used to say in the Trump era that we can avoid the cultural Pfizer, Donald Trump picks where to figure out how to win them- and I think that's gonna be true. For Democrats, you're gonna have to

Take this employment off of it Republicans or care about this thing that is disconnected from your life. While democrats care about this and try to you can't just pretend, like your operating in two different ecosystems and ignore what's happening here have to save. I give the election were tomorrow, while Democrats in progress are passing a bill that just x y z. While republicans are talking about this. Like you ass you, I think it's what we ve always done this before, but you don't fall into the trap. Playing their game. You call out the game and explain why republics are making the case they are and how that affect your life and what they're trying to distract you from Yale you know some Democrats in the past has suggested strangers. You know only talk about economic issues. I think that is both not. Wise to do, and is also hard to just do right, because yet Republicans are the ones I

because it's a year, you're not doing this in a vacuum. Republicans going to keep talking about this. I think you ignore these individual blobs, to whatever extent you can, especially if you dont, have the power to control them, but you do stand up for equity and against discrimination? More broadly like, for example, you know, Biden on his first day signs an executive order protecting gay and transgender Americans from discrimination in schools, health care and the workplace. So you you stand up and be proud of these sort of larger values that most Americans would agree with, while avoiding the dumb fuck and controversies on Fox NEWS about MR potato the doktor sues. That's that sort of one way to both call in and also like, you said in call out the game that their plan right, like you, call their game. You talk about your own values and what you believe and then, of course you also talk about the issues where you get broad agreement,

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no more money for rhinos and as people don't aid directly to his own pack, then Republic officials all went nuts and got trumpet issue will follow ups Damon, where he said. I fully support the Republican Party and important GEO P committees, but I not support rhinos in fools. He asked part of our seas. Spring donor retreat has already been scheduled to take place at Mara I go of course how my anxiety. Do you think this caused Republicans, I'm sure causes them a ton of anxiety because, to the extent that they have a ass roots, fundraising base? It is freedom Trump he created at its base on his name, his Brad his list, and so if they were to potentially lose that that would be potentially varied. Imaging to the party in their ability to keep up with Democrats. Did you really do when you are? This is part of our keeping furnaces and MR gross, but when you are out of power,

You really have to rely on individuals who are not trying to buy access in order to raise money. Corporation give us money. Lobbyists give less money for organisations against except lobbyists. Packs formulation can accept packs, give less money when you are not in a position to advocate for their agenda in you rely on individual donors and if those donors trump takes that list home with him then that would be problematic for the Party Fisher Zuma. Why? We think the Trump is trying to siphon donations away from the republican party. Few options here: power greed he just wants. The money- packs have very few limitations. How you can spend the money, so he could up ostensibly pay himself and his family, a salary with the money or both what do you think it's both, I think you know I remember a long time ago, was at once describing Donald trumps,

sort of approach to negotiation as a guy trying to sell a countertops, basically like to his real estate contractor days This is a pure leverage play get seventy fuelled by anger and petulance, and stupidity by this is his main point of leverage over the party. Is the grass is his list in the EU, his name to raise money together. They have any sense of they may try to offer a little distance. He lords this over them. That's part of it There is definitely gripped, involve there's always drift involve tromp. He you'd have this pact, we would have to disclose its expenditure, publicly, so we would theoretically now, if he wishes, lining his own pockets from it by The term campaign, which also had to disclose things put a lot of money through, shall corporations to make it. Order to now except those being spent? So he could there? I'm gonna, to be a lot of stuff. Happening, and it is of course fitting that the

How does the Aral Sea begin to men Frances from they give him money by putting their event at more like arena. I, what the implications of this first from a fundraising perspective, Donald Trump, Bassorah, vacuuming up all the small dollar donations in the party like what does that mean for a republican politicians in general? How much do they need to rely on grassroots donors, verses their traditional base of rich assholes and big corporations you know. There was this big thought right after January, sex, the Republicans were losing their corporate donation base This is why this was a theory that I put forward. Others dead that about why niche Mcconnell was trying to pass upset racial troubled. Why Kevin Mccarthy originally thought he might has opened a censuring tromp. Was that all the donor said we're not can be with you. A bunch of big corporations and pacts put a pause on their donations,

if you pay close attention that is quietly and quickly unwinding and all the usual special interests are coming back to the Republican Party, but they still need baby books, and it is, it is concerning. It is damaging will be devastating. Probably but it's not a problem that you want. If you're the Aral Sea or the energy see it. I see, and so you want to fix it because it syllabuses

when you're out of power, raising money is harder than when you're in power. Those are the so there's the fund raising implications that you think. The political implications here are another example of trump maintaining an iron grip over this party and, like the idea, wet again whether you, whether or not he runs in TWAIN, twenty four. This is still his party. His he's going to exert tremendous influence over primary candidates in the twenty twenty two mid terms and you're not gonna, be able to have a successful future in their public and party. If you do not at least pledge fealty to Donald Trump, you can up. You know like that. The idea that they're going to

Get all the excitement the Donald Trump generates among the republican base, but none of the? U know none of the horror he generates among a lot of suburban and independent voters by saying, oh, he loved his policies and we loved some of the things he accomplished. What lessons but Linsey Gram does by you know, and sometimes he was a little too much his characters, unto if you can't do that, you're agreeable to Uruguay, to split the baby here. If Europe, public and you're gonna have to go full pro tromp or be an anti tramp guy and then be, you know, run out at the party when he tries to fund a primary challenger against you re, like I, don't think, there's a middle ground now for sure, and I think the specific way in which this power play by trot may plants off out is in the primaries the trump once against income house members had voted for in future. Theoretically, the commission can make me these are incumbent protection operations is why

under the previous regime. They d trouble see black. Listed consultants who worked for a primary challenges from a Democrats that has been on wound the cycle, but that's the way, the ultimately its funded a lot by membership they do, is they protect member? So what happens for this change here?. In a normal world. The energy sea would go all out to defend the number three Republican against a primary challenge by I can't let him do that if they want to send emails with trumps, name and that, like the it's gonna, have specific application and it could have implications in the kind of candidates who get nominated in some of these districts, where there may be a look at Georgia, where I'm sent out a statement via tweed, encouraging her crucial walker Former now boys Minnesota Vikings anniversary Georgia running back to run for Senate, I'm guessing that Vienna She would rather have David Purdue run again, then Herschel walk by

if they want to use trumps, nay and they're, not gonna put their muscle behind the candid they want to win their either have to step back or help Trump, and so there I think it's not gonna- have this gigantic impact on how much money the party raises. It could have some, but it is have some more impact on. And more micro level things it could be decisive in whether rubbing his take. Thousands parts of mercosur Roger by noon pickup. Everything you ve ever learned about getting healthy, there's a lot of contradictory in for Asian out there and things like that old fashioned food pyramid which we fuckin hey Eric Positive Marietta, aren't my child, not fans, hate the food and pyramid Internum,

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the wake of between twenty election democratic strategies are worried very worried about the future of the hispanic vote, one in ten Latinos who supported Hillary Clinton, twenty sixteen switch to Donald Trump and twenty twenty. So we touched on this topic. For what's changed, is that we now have better data on what happened in twenty twenty more precinct levelled at a better surveys and the exit polls, and in some states we even have individual level vote history. So what is it? set a tell us David Shore, who's on the Obama. Two thousand and twelve data team laid it all out for New York, magazine's Eric Levitz the other week between two thousand and sixteen and two thousand and twenty Democrats gained less than one percent among Non college, whites and seven percent among White College graduates, so is where our gains we lost a little over one percent among

our voters in more than eight percent among latino voters? The story with asian american voters is still out there, because we still waiting for some of the California level precincts to come in and that's where a lot of Asia American voters are anyway in one of the more dramatic examples that show sites a priest Endurable, which is a. Swollen and colombian neighbourhood and South Florida that we focused on in the wilderness swung from a forty white Hillary Clinton win to a ten point, Donald Trump. When so, I want to stop there, because we take the view pods ago about the debate over whether Latinos in Texas turned out at different rates and twenty twenty or if they switched parties. It certainly seems from this data like it's a story about what he knows, who voted for Hilary and then switch to Trump, what sort of your reaction to to

all that, based on this data it. This is fascinating and you always have to have the important caveat when talking about the routine of which is that is incredibly diverse and yet we are talking about huge just parities and differences across geography. And then what is true in Florida, metallurgy, no vote has almost no. Can sure what is true about forcing about in Texas errors on our elsewhere you're talking about people who even some case immigrant communities. Some cases are people who have been here. So long that the border moved they move before the border? And so its interest is very complicated. Big to derail example and that these of well known and well documented vote. Switching N Miami Dade is a very specific thing about Florida and communities. People from colombian venezuelan descent,

According to data tourists view here are much more sensitive to the socialism attacks from publicans necessarily someone of mexican american descent in Texas or areas This is one of the things were. All things are true. There is definitely a difference in turn out. There were nine voting report What in Latinos, who voted and twenty and there were also reward for Hilary entry, thus voted for trumpet. Twenty, though about those things happened, it's happening on the margins. Lot of cases, but the margins matter, particularly now as the electoral map has narrowed for Democrats and were now more dependent on, the sun Bout, where there is a higher hispanic vote population, then when we could count on being competitive in Ohio, and so that we have to pay attention to all of this and really dig deep.

Understand what has happened because slight shifts are the ballgame for us in twenty twenty two and twenty four. This is a joke because, on one hand, like you, said, you'd, never one over generalise about the lieutenant vote because it is so diverse in their so many different, but Tino communities in different parts of the country. On the other hand, some of these swings happened not just in Miami and in Florida or in the rear, ran Valley in Texas, but in precincts, literally all across the country that are heavily latino, including precincts in New York and clearing precincts in California right. So it is a widespread problem, even though the cause of the problem could be different in different areas, because, though it in a vote is so diverse. So the big question is: why did these latino voters

switch or even in a like, you said both are true right. So why did someone Tino voters a switch from Clinton to Trump and white and other letting a voters stay home and sixteen and then vote for Trump and twenty either way trumpets get a bunch more letting of votes and twenty wider? It happened. So a bunch of data cited by shore and adult that it has to do with self reported ideology. So, for a long time, blackened latino voters who self identified as more conservative still tended to vote for death. The crowds by huge margins, even if their self identity was I'm more conservative, but I'm still voting for Democrats. Bad has shifted Now these more conservative voters of color are starting to vote for Republicans, especially black man, and especially with Latinos again, why

so short theory and now we're getting into survey data. So it's not quite as definitive is that the latino voters who switch from Clinton to Trump or her back trump and twenty tended to have more conservative views on crime, policing and public safety. He also said that these conservative Latinos have even more restrictive views on Amazon even so Dan, our friend Carlos Audio, another former Obama person, whose now it accused research we had among the pod before he responded. Ashore, with a different view, he said more conservative Latinos, who may have agreed with Trump on issues like the wall still refuse to vote Republican in sixteen or eighteen because of policies like family separation or anti immigrant rhetoric in twenty twenty, because immigration was no longer a centrepiece of the campaign like it was in sixteen and eighteen conservative Latinos focused. More on their own economic insecurity and believe trump. The business man could help them in some

Latinos who cared a lot about immigration in sixteen eighteen stayed home, because neither party made it a big issue and twenty so lot to unpack their boats or of what's your reaction to all of that and to sir that debate between, and I don't even of the real debate, because there's lots of overlap between Carlos is take on this issue, nation and sort of David chores taken the situation it's hard to know, because we have not seen either dataset. Ray Data that lead David, shorter, are, you one thing and then Carlos to argue essentially the opposite right in one we really why Don David or say that Democrats loss conservative Latinos apart because we talked about immigration too much across a saying. We lost conservative Tibetans argued immigration enough, so I dont know the answer to that. But I will- think is important from this? Whether you come down on Carlos aside or David Shore Side, and then I went on either. There's some gigantic disagreement between them by is

There is this assumption among a lot of people in politics that platform. Seventeen voters are, by definition, more liberal than white voters, and that's not the case, now the same percentage of black and brown voters identify some sort of his wife's. There only differences when they voted for Democrats over the years and we and I think it's very important understand why that shift happened more research to be done. But it is like this is the buggy, if we continue do either stay flat, wealth working class, white, nurse or continue to road there, which is very possible. It may be. The Joe Biden is the high water mark in further, near future for Democrats with awe with that group of voters. We can afford to lose any voters to stowing, and so we to understand what happened and why,

to think there I mean well it to bring us to observe current day application like how do you think this debate informs the way the binding and the Democrats handle and talk about the influx of migrants at the border? Right now you don't we like others, with their lines of recent on a recent broadcast could have unless we could be last month. Time has no meaning figure. I figure two weeks ago, but I'm not sure- and we know this from a time in which Obama was present, which is the influx of migrants on while the toughest policy problems, face because there are no good answers and that it is inherently controversial and I can offer a bunch of political messaging advice and I'm not sure there is a good message rears its just to try to solve the problem as best as you can and and you have to talk, but I think be able to draw speech, the comparisons about what you were doing different and better than Trump is right, and there has been this debate about when

porters and advocates, would be able to see that the facilities that the by demonstrations housing, unaccompanied migrant children,. And I think be able to show them that, and that is even more complicated. The fact that we are in a pandemic and it and you have to be very careful about. Who you exposed to this, but whatever way, you can show people that you are you're doing why the ban you can- and you are improving upon one trunk- didn't try to compare yourself to the alternative. I e tromp, as opposed to what is the best part the boy solution to a very challenging problem? I've been thinking about this in

There was something that Carlos said in his tweet storm that I think, probably overlaps with sort of what shore was saying too, which is that we think about these issues entered like immigration or policing, and we sort of over generalise about the issue when there actually different policy positions within each issue that matter a lot to different groups, so, for example, and people feel Cross pressured between those policy positions. Example and color said: there's a bunch of conservative latino voters who agree with Trump on the wall, and then he does family separation, or he cites deporting a bunch of people or he calls Mexicans criminals and rapists and they stay calm.

To vote against Donald Trump, even if they agree with him on the wall, and you know, within immigration, there is majority support among all races for things like the dreamers for a path of citizenship for stopping just you know, deporting people who have been here for a long long time. There is also majority support among people of all races for border security and is probably a majority of people

who were against the idea of decriminalizing all border crossings right and so there's like saving and, on the other hand, the issue of policing like d funding, the police, when you describe it like that, is not popular not only with white voters, but also with large segments of black voters and latino voters. When you talk about police accountability, when you talk about making sure the law enforcement treats everyone the same, regardless of what they look like, when you talk about holding police accountable for committing violence, then you get majority support across all races and there is both pot. There are both policy positions and the way you talk about these things that can sort of capture a majority of support from voters

all races. But you have to be careful and actually talk and away have policies that sort of you persuade a majority of people. Busily ideas like everyone is a persuadable voter. We talked about this before right and like we should never assume that, just because of someone's demographic that they are set in their policy ways and that they cannot be persuaded to sort of you know, come to your site, a certain policy agreement. You know I'm sure. For example, the Biden campaign Data was much more sophisticated this, but in a lot of cases in like an down, Belarus is someone who is a day Fine, as long as you know, our lives and hid within a primary letting appreciates is viewed as a GEO tv target, a turnout target, not persuasion and that that becomes a future The other thing about this is that if you make a really good point, Is there a sore the stick among people react? whenever there is a conversation about defend the police or immigration and its impact on twitter election is my view. Wisdom,

gosh. You talk about popular unifying things and not talk about unpopular divisive thinks. What's like thing you twitter political export? I wish there was that simple, because it's not here Even if we were to get caught we doubted. It said Democrats talking Immigration was a net negative You still have a situation where you have to deal with organised to talk about. It will still be in the news and so to your point. You have to find ways to talk about these things that are broadly appealing with a broadly appealing message to that. And you can't you. Obviously you can't get sucked down into only talking about the things or by the new drafted by it's got to be out of Guess I ve got a Monday selling american Rescue plan pushing for them by proposing the minimum wage touting your successes. But there are times in your and I have to talk about unpopular divisive issues at a massive immigration is one, but if you were just priests to assume that it was for a second that is going to come up all the time you're gonna have to talk about. You have to figure out how to talk when you can't just you're, the answer can be able to raise the minimum wage or

the kitchen where leave Jackie. I talk about immigration, that is That is the nature of politics. Are you an example? In the Obama years, the president or after the Obama is really the president got criticism for being for enhanced board security because he was trying in vain to get republican votes for immigration reform and we Now that the reason that Obama talked about securing the border and said that, where a nation of laws animation of emigrants was not just because he thought, maybe he could get some republican votes or even then he thought it all. He could get some republican votes for immigration reform its because he was trying to reflect the views of a majority of Americans who believe that, yes, undocumented immigrants who have been here for years should be allowed to become citizens in this country, but we do have to have some kind of security at the border,

because there are a lot of people who come to this country and apply to become citizens or apply for asylum through proper channels and if, ultimately, all we're gonna say is you can just come across the border. Stay and you don't have to go through the official channels and you don't have to apply to citizenship, and you don't have to apply to asylum. You can just walk across and become a citizen, then what does that say to all the people who done it through the proper channels and who do that every single day? And so like it is it? You know like you, do have to sort of balance these things and you have to at least start from a place to meet the american people where they are right, where, where most of the people in this country are witches, they want to provide a pathway to citizenship for people who have been here, but they also want to make sure that we have borders that we, you know, can control on the other side of this. If you are like dealing with a policy position that,

maybe unpopular. You can also talk about it in a different way. Couple pods ago again at our remember how many ago I talked to seventy Mm Eirik, the mayor of Africa. He is literally lazily, most one. We could go. It was the last week, the third gaps literally is literally proposed. The most rare, a call re imagining of policing in the country. Does he talk about defending the police? He does not doubts about how it's going to be more funding for public safety. Does he talk about? I was gonna, get a copy. Does not he talks about there's going to be more public safety officers, but the way he talks about it when he talks about this like fairly radical re, imagining of the police department, which he is abolishing, he is abolishing the police department, but he's talking about in terms of there's going to be more public safety. There's gonna be better public safety. This can be more accountable public safety, we're going to work with people on this, like his whole,

language the way he talked about it, was in a way that sort of meat people where they are and also understand that some people have concerns that may be legitimate about this new proposal, and yet he still bold enough to go forward with a right. So I do think like when we, when we forget that people and voters specifically, can still be persuaded. We sort of fall into this. You know belief that, like, oh, nothing can be done and people are just gonna vote based on their demographic are based on their party, nothing. We can all do so, it's all just eternal game and that's just not the with the electoral works and they actually. That is the one point that both Carlos ends- shore antimissile all make the old say is that we actually want because we persuaded people, we lost some voters because Trot persuaded them, but we persuaded more about one percent difference in white. On college. Voters is a huge deal that is at issue

and right, Wisconsin Pennsylvania in every state. There were so far. And so persuasion can. All politics was persuasion and we have made such a fundamental mistake into shifting to buy for creating the disgust. Messaging into turn out and persuasion. When everyone is the persuasion target in some ways, you prefer I mean it. You know Stacy Abrams says this all the time like they they they stay, signed up and registered a record number of elderly black Americans in Georgia vote who had never voted in their entire life and then older black voters said in this election. I'm gonna vote, that's not just like turning out of that does not just showing up at their house and saying? Oh yeah, you ve just been waiting for an organizer to common and registry to vote

There is a reason that those Georgians didn't vote before and that the organizers in Georgia persuaded them that in twenty twenty was important for them to come out and cast a ballot. They might not have believed it was import, another wise and they pursue them to do so? And so that's why I think we should just we have to remember to never give aiding the lesson of all. This is to never give up on a on persuasion. So that's it! That's all we efforts at eight in whilst go there are. No, we got no gas today and does anyone have a good weekends? And you know by up all your doktor cease books? Hold them close, you never know you never know Joe Biden might take them away. We made Through this park, ass about how they going into labour, which was a huge when, for everyone involved, specially Tommy, who is sitting in the wings waiting to fill in? For me, if that happened Tommy texts to this work, music Danner you on the way to the hospital, because time is gonna have to fill in if you were and there

just long enough where you didn't reply that I know Tom he's getting pretty nervous about the reason I reply is in preparation for the hour I've all of her brother careless decided to wake up before five forty five every day. So I was there. I was fully parenting incredibly early hour. It is merely a boy. What I'm saying you John, is it never gets easier good, that's good, soliloquy, Well, I have written to you and to everyone else. Idea Monday by everyone pod. Save America is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller, its mixed in edited by Andrew Chadwick Tiles,

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