Republicans don’t yet have the votes to jam through their Donor Relief Act, Trump goes all-in for Moore, Conyers steps down from Judiciary, Tillerson guts State, and Mulvaney appoints himself consumer watchdog. Then Senator Elizabeth Warren talks to Jon, Jon, and Tommy about the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and Cass Sunstein joins to talk about his new book, Impeachment: A Citizen’s Guide.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Imma call Vinny work here now for you,
I welcome the pod, save America, I'm John forever and palm grandmother and Tommy retort on them.
today we will be joined by when the great legal minds of our time and the author
The new book impeachment citizens Guide, our PAL casts Einstein.
and we also have a special guest calling and later Senator
Massachusetts Elizabeth Warrant, get out here, yeah sure we
Last night we had you run short Logan that you have this haven't you know last night they reached oak, we're gonna talk about the showdown, the shooting
at the ok corral this morning in the consumer, Financial Protection Bureau or controls amiable name of it as many times as possible Vanni and his own abbreviate that crap his usurpation of
our and doughnuts. You brought doughnuts mulvaney, breadth doughnuts, which is what we brought. It was before the first Hampshire's on the shelf at his ok before we get to that. For years now,
guys have links giving power my little stuff Turkey's it. I guess I don't has the shame.
in Ireland and together with the proposed giving shape, and I feel great level what'd, you tell us about Liberty leave, it may have a space for level deliberate promo, because its
there. We have a great episode having some of my favorite gas that is used to promote the one from that was over the weekend, which was the second show with the big. Our second beacon show with us and we as bravoes and even though we had Andy Cohen, we had prevention. Bravo anyway, I Francesca Ramsay. We had DV digs we
Miriam Bourse tyrant, who is a native american actor in committee,
and writer who talked about Thanksgiving. We had an archipelago group
You sound not over the top, it often leave in the end, it was refers realise that an occupier group had done the opening to lever leave it there. Many texts sent between means
John, I'm not if it were not necessarily friendly, but we thought it was funny. So we went with it
may we you are, I'm gonna get my brother texted me about. It said I just want you to know this. This is
it all because of work. If we need to look back at a certain moment,
when I went over to way and allowed, but when he does it's pretty by
and also by the way we played a game where we actually play the hardest game you ever played, which is forcing people to recognise the difference between Piper Headlines Fox NEWS, headlines and fake russian ads
and it was a great game. It was an man, Peggy
the entire off. It was really hard, but the entire beacon was chanting, her name really here and it was get upset puzzled. The world yeah so that the
up right now is with an Africa expert named Johnny Carson. I went to the swamp to Washington DC to the United States Institute of Peace to sit down with him. We talked about Robert Mugabe and Bass. Her heart was in the foreign service for thirty seven years
first met Mugabe. Nineteen, seventy four in some random
in some random. You know airport in the middle of of Africa. It's like that's the kind of history and relationships you get from all these people, who are now being unceremoniously shoved out of state power
but I d grass sign or else it. I wasn't my way. We talked about elections in Kenya and, U S policy generally such up and a majority. Fifty four is up with its second episode. Jason talks. Will former CIA officer about trumps ongoing campaign against the American Intel Community seems like ISA. Trinity
at her their tiny incitement area. I want to make a video of me assembling a podcast MIKE with a blindfolded dislike directed at a fat
and we're gonna talk again the end of this week, us we're gonna, be in Santa Barbara frightened. I think we finally Sullivan
but who knows there travelling again this week we have set.
Many Saturday night and the Oakland California, and better have a halter this'll outside my guys Jaska. I want to start with a quick update on the most urgent topic, that is,
don't orally fact: twenty seven to Missus Mitchell Connell's determination to pass one point. Four trillion dollars worth of tax cuts and tax increases through the Senate
by Friday. So this is a guys
This is why republicans have put up with Donald trumps
creeping authoritarianism, the mafia style, corruption, the casual ray.
This is the main event, a deranged tweets they did this or that they could wake up and make alter rich people even richer with a bunch of tax cuts, for this is that this is the big event, which means that they will stop at nothing to
this done. It is a bad bill. Is an unpopular bill. No one really likes it. It sort of breaks all of their promises. It's gonna explode the deficit. It's going to its, like Republicans, could have written a bill like George W Bush did. That was skewed heavily towards the wealthy and how much tax breaks it gives and then just gives like sort of chump change to the middle class and everyone else, but they couldn't even get that right. Now, they're, raising taxes raising rays
over about half of all families will see attacks increase by twenty twenty seven. Can I tell you my saviour barking, not time affair Barbados, please that provisions that essentially just for inflation are permanent, so the taxpayer
their codifying are permanent, but the tax cuts, the tiny.
Little measly ones in the short term go away, but the corporate tax
right, the clever wherever Israel, corporatism people we'd, be it every chance they try to. They got they screwed over working people
yeah, so yeah winners, the top point one percent get an average tax could have two hundred thousand dollars. That's pretty nice for them. Corporations get a forty three percent cut in taxes, that's good for them and then, of course, there the the point, two percent of multimillionaires and billionaires like a vodka dungeon
your Eric who get all their inheritances tax free losers, sixty seven million households earning less than a hundred thousand dollars who will have to pay higher taxes immediately and then, of course, like us, at the half of all, Americans will see attacks hike in twenty twenty seven and another big loser the deficit courses enough.
aid. For so the question, can they get this done and how do we stop them? They definitely can get this
Dan I mean you know, is a play.
Very similarly to healthcare, but like healthcare was their passion. Cutting taxes is their job. You know
health care is like their hard right right, healthcare radios Gary's! Is this? Take all this is their call. It is why this is why my yes, this is what the physical Paul Paul Ryan, when he was standing around the keg he was talking about. How do you know take Medicaid and turn it into tax cuts for people were
and you know the one to step of this its step. One create a one point. Five one point: seven one point: four trillion dollar hole with tax cuts that are targeted corporations in the wealthy and then a year or two
now come back and say: what are we going to do about this big hole? In one thing, we can do for their cut Medicaid for the Medicare for their cut social security and all the rest. So you know this is the plan
This is why there this is what Paul Ryan believes. All the deficit talked it a matter of the attacks on on.
Of being unfit for office, don't matter this is it. This is why Republicans Republicans, and so some of our favorite, according Quote republican heroes from the healthcare battle, are not knows yet. You know right before we all live for Thanksgiving, at least
Kuski minnow up Edna Local Alaska Paper said she was fine with them, adding the repeal of the individual mandate in the affordable care act, which is basically partial, Obamacare repeal into the spill, even though the congressional Budget Office the non partisan congressional. But it also says that repeal of individual mandate would increase. The number of uninsured by thirteen million seems pad and raise premiums by an additional ten percent year over year sees, but to ten percent set good politics, her bad passive, that's basically as Susan is republican. Susan Collins said that kind of premium increases basically Gunnar wipe out any of the tax cut that most. That said, some middle class families actually received from this now so Mccluskey in that up, at also in her spokesman, made clear made this clear she's, not a definite yes vote.
But she's as she wrote that up at about the individual mandate. I don't owe to pave the way for the yes vote. We don't know I should do what she did. So that's more caskeys deal, then we have a couple of other people who are on the fence, Jerry, Moran and Kansas. He was on the fence for little bit during the health care debacle
and he held the town hall over the over the break, which did not go super well, but Cuba,
who does to him for holding it in the first place, because no one else is doing, but Jerry
did because he thinks it all, but the deficit which she correct about and he's not sure about adding healthcare into the mix
is correct about and he's not sure about, adding healthcare into the mix. So there's a couple: people like Moran and, of course, there's Jeff flake theirs by Corker and their John and Thence John Mccain get all three of these folks. They like giving tax breaks to the wealthy they always have. So we can expect them to completely changed their stripes for this, but all three of them have made their concerns known about this process.
which is just as bad as the healthcare process, no debates. Nobody public hearings know nothin innate seemingly care less about the details than they did around syrupy others
whatever state local taxes like that all the deductions things it would seem like you would really upset New York, members of Congress or California, members of sort of washed out in the end right already fighting for the thing than I've come to bite them any acid during elections totally at an end, look and flake end Corker particularly said that they have real problems with with ASEAN. Do their deficits
so based. Basically what they're going to do her that the public and to try to have both ways there saying no. No, no! You keep saying attacks, we're gonna go up on middle class families, but that's only of Congress doesn't renew the tax cuts for middle class families, of course, Congress or new tax cuts for middle class families when twenty twenty seven rules around well, if Congress does do that,
Thus, it will increase by even more than the one point five trillion it's already going increase by, so that they can actually have a booklet, Anne and, by the way Congress has lashed itself to the mass
over and over again and then crashed anyway. That's what happened with the sequester. That's what's happened with shutdowns with we that's. What's come close to happening with the debt ceiling of Europe
the sequester, if you remember, was this thing where they built a tick
time bomb into into the budget
said. If we don't come to an agreement by certain time, though these drastic cuts, it offends drastic cuts to discretionary spending,
and then the bomb went off
happen anyway, so
idea and and and look you know,
these guys are like don't worry ten years from now I'll fix it, like that's ridiculous, that they want to make the corporate tax rates for permanent, because
in fairness to them there. They believe that I'd fixing up the corporate tax code cutting the rate.
Broadening the base and having it be predictable, might lead to further investment but they're doing it at the expense of the middle class of of working. People of anyone who is not you know, could benefit from the stock increase of of major companies and small businesses and small businesses. So less about the politics of this for Flake Corcoran Mccain, they vote
on this right, they decide to vote no on us and take this bill. They don't have to worry about bright Bart here now,
worry about Sean Hannity they're, not gonna, face voters. Again
the more running for reelection, but but also mean that the bill, as a fifty two percent disapproval right when he five percent approval. Vs Fox NEWS, revive liberal organ
a lot of their baby. Oh, they might have problems of primary, but on a general right right just
wake and John Mccain Arizona. Have a lot of those units are growing. Suburban poppy
if there are going to face a lot of these tax increases like suburban peoples and swing. Voters and suburban districts are gonna face. Tax increases all over the country, which is why its yet another reason why this is awful politics for the Republicans. So at you know Joe making it so much credit for his no vote on healthcare form which he should have which he deserved, and you know there's a guy with a quote today, where he he's told my pants during the healthcare reform debate. I'm not
to vote for something called skinny repeal it's ridiculous now what this is. This would be voting for, skinny repeal and so all that good well, the John Mccain rightfully earned after his health care.
It should be taken away. If you vote yes for this because again, it's not like. We expect him to vote for liberal policies, but he he his exclaimed that he doesn't want something that increases
deficit. He doesn't want something that's out of regular order. He doesn't want something skewed too heavily to the wealthy and this build as all of these things, I Corker flake Mccain COD Mc Caskey by their own
ideological tax tells another do a trumpet all by their own ideological tests,
We already know unless but they're afraid too many, and they just accept stepping back from it. This big,
not like America doesn't have problems that could be addressed in the tax code. You know India in this
is been taught. You been it's crazy, it's crazy thing to do. Like Corporation
are sitting on tons of profit
The reasons are not investing there isn't a hiring for the reason that are raising wages is not because they don't have money on
just money in their bank accounts economic, insecure.
in middle class people trying to fuckin get jobs and expenses all the problems.
talk? But all the time like this is a built.
Make them worse. It is complete, it is like
there's just no reason for it. There's no reason for their tax plan to be this terrible doesn't simplify the tax. Could the favourite Paul Ryan talking point is that it could fit on a postcard and make it easier for everybody? That's just not the case as bizarre sunsets thinks phase in they phase out they screw over people turn levels. They changed the way all kinds of deductions and state local property taxes or state and local income taxes are taxed.
at federal level. It's it's a disaster and there are good reasons like if you did to me let whatever revenue neutral tax reform which involve not raising the deficit, and you had a principle that said we're gonna be
we're not gonna, be regressive. We're gonna make sure the benefits accrue down. You could get democratic votes forget.
rid of a lot of these tax breaks, which emit their good arguments for getting rid of their good arguments for simplifying the tax code. But there's no good argument
telling people that are living inexpensive place. Oh you're gonna pay a little bit more for your house so that the divorce family inherits more when they die it. It seems like the only guiding principle for this tax legislation is that they needed to give a huge and permanent tax cut to corporations and who, however, they had to pay for that, whoever they,
to raise taxes on, they were just gonna go ahead and do and the donors and the billion or donors they needed. They needed that that this payment coming do so they have to reduce the estate tax because they all want because they knew the donors to be on board, because there also they ve allow themselves to believe that it is much more difficult to vase voters if they don't pass anything then if they pass something that raises taxes on those very voters.
have, they have convinced themselves that this is true. So that's that's their problem. There's. Another reason: Mcconnell wants to get this done by the end of the week, the governor
runs out of money on December eight and will shut down Mcconnell. An Paul Ryan need democratic votes to keep the government open and if the government shuts down on December eighth, they cannot pass these tax cuts and they will not pass his tax cuts by the end of the year, and so this week Donald Trump meets with congressional leaders, both Republicans and Democrats, to see if they can strike another deal
so little lot lot of moving parts to these negotiations on the government, but on the agenda here is possibly funding. Obama care funding, those cochere reduction payments passing something like
The Alexander, Mario Little stabilize Obamacare, there's passing the dream, acts that wall basically
of undocumented young Americans from being deported both Lindsey Graham and Jerry Moran said they were interested in doing that
maybe there's a deal on the consumer Financial Protection Bureau. I mean democratically walkman there with a long list of demands. The question is: why should those demands be in what should our mess
beer on this. So far, humor has Schuman policies that have danced around saying they don't want to say
well shut the government down which is right, partly because it wouldn't be the Democrats too
and the government down Republicans controller three branches of government if they want to
in the vote to give a government open. They could do that. They can't because they got a bunch of crazies in their Kok, is also its messages. The strange game theory thing, which is the more amenable policy and humor, look right now to compromise the more likely republican hardliners will draw a line in the sand and force Mcconnell to go to them.
So because, if policy, if closely and humor out there saying we're not voting for anything. Unless we get this this, this we get simulation, get dreamers. We get all the rest of a sudden. Mcconnell can take that just little print that out and show it to whatever mark meadows and say help you don't don't do this
but they're gonna get. So there is a game that they're playing, which I understand, but I mean
when everyone should know is, if we can,
been delay. So the so basically the scent of budgetary
is voting tomorrow on this tax legislation, a Corcoran flakes it on that committee. So that could tell us something right there on Thursday. Mcconnell hopes to have this up forever. If we can even delay this to next week. There is a chance that we get enough December eighth and then we're talkin about government shall dance and then they can have a hard time pass in the south and if we
The way it a couple weeks after that that is when the new senator from Alabama will be seated, which will talk about the second so casually before either. So what is the status of the thing there actually gonna pass? Has there been any any leak about what the compromises between the high
ass in the Senate year has not as yet no so right now and they made right now the centre passes something Thursday. They would have to go into a conference to resolve the differences between the house legislation in the Senate, legislation which are vast, but not you, know irreconcilable, but unless one thing that can happen over the next couple days is Mcconnell and ride in a couple of people could just work out a compromise. Then Mcconnell puts on the floor as their bill and then make it just pass it all right there. So we,
We haven't heard anything yet knew about that. In order to stop this go to easiest thing. To do, but a Trump tax scam, dot org it will.
I view the numbers of senators to call. It will give you, if you're in a red,
later, a blue state. It will help you get in touch with friends in red
AIDS or in purple states to call those senators to call wavering senators. It will show you events,
there are in your area that you go. Do there's like a national day of action happening today. There's protests that can be happening all week long, but it's all on that website could a Trump tax game, DOT, org, to figure out how you can help. So, let's talk about the Senate race in Alabama room.
Roy more Europe. So this morning, Donald Trump that the White has announced, don't trump will not be going to Alabama to campaign with alleged child molesters
That is why more, these distinctions are so stupid. Yeah you're, all laddie, he's pissed off into eating every morning he's Alan between from Sunday, though
I think we need knell of em in the. U S, senators issue more policy puppet who is weak on crime weak on the border, bad for our military Jones would be a disaster Jones being the man who prosecuted the coup, Clucks clan members who can murdered for
young women as this race is a national. It's a billboard from the GEO P that says Republicans two women fuck you we don't care
yes look children, Roy Morse campaigns,
his dean young Said- and I quote, we believe, judge more. We dont believe these women, it's just that simple
you can keep trotting them out if you want to, but we are not going to talk about that. He refuses to engage on the subject
of of the fact. Roy more is accused of sexually assaulting or molesting
children over the course of many many years, yet any evil campaign, and I won't I wanted to talk for second about some of the strain.
the evidence here again at Roy more because we will a minutes talk about problems on a democratic side as well. But there is no comparison. Republican or
more to what Roy more has been accused of nine women, have come forward on the record to or trumps supporters one is a Republican
There are supporting witnesses who corroborate these women stories. There are documents that
move- that more is lying about his denials? He was banned from the Fucking mall. Ok, he was banned from
from William Saladin. It's late rode up a really great. Last of all, I should
That's all. I have heard the egg from to give him credit Bethel, Jake Tapir summarised as well. I really more started with a presumption of innocence, like everyone does, but he has since forfeited it by lying, by making assertions that are demonstrably false by having witnesses in documents in self incriminating statements. Come
I mean there are not both sides to every issue. Now, there's a very clear set of evidence indicating that he did with these women. Let's eat it right and there's a near time story couple days ago about so trumps evolution on us. If it wasn't evolution, it all the time
believes more he's angry with his daughter of vodka for saying that there is a special place in hell for people like more anything.
More is being wrongly accused. He thinks it's all made up, it's all about him and we found out tat. You are a special agar about this. We found her bed now. Try
he's telling people that the access hollow it's made up just like the access Hollywood tape is made, is trying it out his China. That is terminated. Conversation is like you know like this. The excess how it, which was also
do you, like I'll, have a cheeseburger, a diet coke in the access Hollywood tables vague at home? That is just seeing like how does hasn't what
Your face do an idea that the excellent oh, oh you you're you're with me, you're a powerful enough that if I say the excess, how have you can't tell me? I'm business is another time when Maggie Hitman having a bug in his bedroom has been incredibly valuable. He said to a senator he's been telling a TED, staffers and AIDS, its visa he's.
convince himself. He believes this cuz he clearly views are really more allegations as somehow the same as the accusations made against him
her aunt eight. Then he knew that it worked out for him yeah yeah, but he has what he knows. He believes when he wants to believe. You know like the idea that trumpet like comes relationship with truth in what he thinks about it is so attenuated. At this point I, like I, don't,
That is why we believe what he said in a moment is gonna believe in this moment he finds it useful to believe that right, Marshalls, like use people, keep pointing out there like that one
deck of the lies big and small, and I would call this a big lie. You and you add to that all the little lies about how I don't watch tv as he live, tweets Fox in France. I don't play golf as our stuff Instagram, of whom the golf course like every weekend. They are pathological liars. This definition
What then he'd say lie constantly for no reason with no regard for facts or, like our intelligence know, it is
terrific and you and we ve been so it's like
Everyone believes that party in Trump knows that everyone believes that Paul politicians lie and then people politicians, both parties lie. So he just does it because he thinks
everyone thinks we're all liars anyway, so I might as well just tell the biggest whoppers that I can't it's gross and there is a chance
that it could all work here in Alabama. It is an incredibly tight race. Doug Jones has, you know, made up a lot of ground
Poles and Roy more is obviously fallen a lot and the scandal, but its tight. I think which Jones is point. Eight percent ahead in their real, clear politics average
This could go either way and you know ultimately, this boils down to cynicism. Donald Trump is being a cynic
wait much Mcconnell US and all the rest. They want to attack Doug Jones. There try
You say in every way. Vote for a more even though, is a petty file, because we need the seed and being expelled. We could dispose of two fictions about our politics. It would so greatly help he'll our country. The first is they all: do it they're all bad they're, all the same. The second has my vote doesn't matter. If people would stop believing those two things, I think it would be the most important thing that ever happened to our party. That's right, especially that less
Bell ass, one that my vote doesn't matter. If you are there the numbers of Democrats, there are enough people in Alabama that could easily and missile easily easily ease,
we happen so in a low turnout race like this, you can get a couple thousand people in various places in tip in election on any given that, especially in a special action when you're gonna see like fourteen percent turnout, look what happened original, we'll get so people who turned out for the first time with the young people who turn up for the first time, Virginias very, very different from Alabama, which will of course get lost it for some
in Rome or winds, but but that doesn't mean that people in Birmingham and people in Montgomery can make a big difference here. People in the suburbs of Alabama can make a big difference, go to the polls and make sure that that Roy Moors Nata is not the next year. We can win ascendancy in Alabama and it can change everything acreage.
you- think it's one of the most important elections is a no. I am we shouldn't have that we like
nah know race. I know that when I get a lot of people excited because it was of one of the first races are an Donald Trump. Her an extra democratic has representatives. It would have mattered
it would not have mattered nearly as much as what wouldn't what happens
Jones, taken the scale of what hinges on this,
someone art agar, our brand than any other solution would have been so much bigger than any special actual activity, because a lot of what comes after matters too, it's hard to say this, but like we ll, look back,
can and what happened with. Doug Jones could very well of Tipp the Tipp the direction the country the stakes
been bigger, namely election? We ve seen since twenty sixteen, but it's also the challenges harder for Democrats in any challenge reasons why sixteen so pay attention. I let's talk about John Connor's and Nancy policies, appearance. I meet the press. We must discuss this I'd like to state that that was a very, very, very bad answer that she gave me the yeah. You think less Oliver one happened so Nancy policies on meat, the press, she's asked of conyers- should resign. Conyers again, you, madam, is distorts the buzz history right before Thanksgiving. It was revealed that he settled they wrongful dismissal, Sue and twenty fifty and with an employee who accused him
sexual harassment policies answer she said we are strengthened by due process. Fine, then John Conyers, as an icon in our country, that very very bad dont need to say that he's done a great deal to protect women.
Now. Will you say when someone's accused by women asked if she believes the women policy said I?
know who they are to you. They have not come forward, so one has not come forward because of a confidentiality agreement in the settlement and if John Conyers wants, he can release her from that confidentiality agreement. So she can
speak, and you should do that. Another one is not come for another one file, the lawsuit another woman that was later dropped and she's not going for it. A third one has come forward and gone on the record of the Washington Post, Melanie Sloan, who said that she does not believe she was sexually harassed but was verb.
Abuse and harassed throughout her time. In countries office, including one time when he called her into his office- and he was sitting there in his underwear- which you know, we also know that these confidentiality agreement exists, because the house has a terrible way of dealing with cases about sexual harassment. Yes, whereas everything is hidden, the institution protects the members. Every institution protects the members that they pay for them.
must have a lawyer. The accuses have to get a lawyer themselves and then, when their settled, the public doesn't know but the settlement, even though the fact that the public's taxpayer dollars or used to pay this element, and if we are to me like something that should be changed immediate and during the process, your expected and go to work, your trade shall be work as normal, like if you sort of broader
brought an allegation. Your committed, as this is all unfolding to work every day. We should say so right after that appearance. There is in our poor as there should have been an policies office immediately put out a statement. Almost simultaneously Conyers announced that he was stepping down from the Judiciary Committee which he is of which you the ranking member. While the investigation, proceeds and policy in a statement said, zero tolerance means consequences. I have asked for an ethics investigation and Congress has agreed to step aside his ranking member, no matter how great an individual's legacy. It is not a licence for harassment if she had just given that answer on me, the press- we probably would not be talking about this today, so she clarified it so great. I think the question is: can some people say nano con? You should resign right now. I do think and Tommy. We talked about this sort of last week. We are talking about these ethics investigations, whether the Ethics Committee investigation process is good enough or not. I do
think we need some sort of process here when someone is accused of sexual harassment, because we now have this problem where, for the longest time, women don't come forward because either men don't believe them or don't wanna, believe them or powerful men, silence them, and so no one was hurt and a lot of people to come forward, and I don't think we can go from there to a situation where someone is accused of sexual harassment and then Twitter is the judge and jury of what happens right like. I think there needs to be a an ethics committee process, investigative process with
teeth that is by partisan. That is swift. That is credible. That brings justice. You know a guy. I do think there is a need, something there's. A bill has been put forward to try to fix the process which has clearly clearly broken.
I think what you're saying exactly right. I think that, because for so long there was no process that made sense that there is no way for allegations were taken.
seriously were kind of learning about all these things. That happened over many many years in which there were actually no consequences at all and were processing that serve as a culture in
and was on, your lover leave it and he and he talked about his work with with Prince
is and how and talk about his work of people that have done terrible things. They talked about the difference between an honest, switch and dimmer switch, and I think we're
beginning a figuring out right. We're Connor's is accused of his different than what right more is accused of right. How a reactor these things does require us to look at each case individually in they hold differ.
positions yeah in Roy Moors case. The election is the judgment on what ultimately happens here. Conyers hold office and there needs to be a process for office holders who are accused of these things to figure out. What have
snacks so like. I can't imagine a scenario where John Conyers should keep his seat and how design I can't again, but I would at least want the process to tell us that, and it's not a call free bullshit process. It is a swift, credible. Bipartisan presidencies happened very fast, and I think that the urgency that there is incredible urgency in getting to the root
I'll come, but I think that, because we're all online, because these things serve play out on Twitter, that there's twitter time and in the earth,
see if twitter time is actually completely unimportant. It is urgency of twitter. Time is five seconds threat. It is very, very important. Nancy policy gets her statement right. It is less important and does not make her equivalent to people defending Roy more that you fucked up on me the press and then had to fix it later. You know right, she's, not Donald Trump right
our eyes. Let's move Andre a section that I tabled a look at our budding Cacus Dockers E G. The word used for good.
run by the worst least qualified and unscrupulous citizen hits? This is where I jammed a whole bunch of think then that we could talk about. First,
Taiwan, a story Tommy. This particularly got: U annoyed over the weekend, your texting about it, which is Rex, tillers and cutting the state Department, which is, I think, particularly agree just because it is so hard to get people to
about the story. When you talk about little bit rex tillers and has sort of made it his soul job to cut jobs at the State Department to cut the funding of the agency, he leads by as much as a third which Congress has told him is ridiculous. I think we
don't have a great sense as a country about what diplomats do so I mean I just think you have to remember that
diplomats allow us to project power all around the world. There not fancy people in Paris hosting cocktail parties, their people and countries like Pakistan that are constantly raising with a government that are meeting with opposition parties that are providing us unbelievably important intelligence about what
happening on the ground that we can't get from the CIA or other places, because ears are like diplomatic conversations and also like
starvation about political and economic things that are happening like there was all this
God how we missed quote: unquote the arab spring. There was no phone. You could intercepts to know that
fruit vendor in Tunisia was gonna light himself on fire. I start this regional upheaval
you could have a really credible diplomat, who was out in the field meeting with people seeing this tension boiling over in thinking that, like this, was a tinder box
So that's when we talk about how this is going to weaken us abroad, and it did seem
There's no real constituency for slashing state
other than they think the military
is cool and tough. Let's talk about that and will,
liberal. We need work in the state department. So let's got that agency, but it is harming us in every threat, is a direct threat,
where national Security in Europe, people, like Michael Haider and Michael Hayden, you ran use a CIA director for Bush is talking about how dangerous this will be for starch.
Rolls every military commander you talk to. You talked about how much they like working in partnership with the State Department, it's just its baffling
happily, there are cutting embassy security to yeah. I mean again like in case you
Benghazi was anything more than just a political bullshit attack with totally
wouldn't even meet with the person that heads up the embassy security division at the state farm. Bloom
It reminds me a little bit of how Fox NEWS can be a conspiracy, the zone of conspiracy, because its protected by the truthful journalism that kind of holds up our whole democracy around it like,
we live in the protection of an international order that we built over half a century and was not perfect as states makes terrible and evil mistakes, but it created a period of growth and stability and peace,
positive change unrivalled in human history and they don't respect it. They don't they don't respect it, and even though you know Donald Trump Fortune
which he has cobbled together. Internationally has depended on that order same for all the various benefactors here. They just refuse to see it sucks. The other agency,
That is in loathsome turmoil. Right now is the consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Richard courtrai is the director of the Sea F, P B is the acronym goes and he has stepped down to run for governor of Ohio. He is appointed lay under English, as the deputy director, the twenty ten Dodd Frank ACT,
says, which set up the Consumer bureau says the deputy director shall serve as acting director in the absence or unavailability of the director. Trump, however, decided to install Mc Mulvaney who's. The head of the Office of Management budget, which is a weight, has office which is under the White House, saying that the Federal Vacancies ACT allows the president to install a temporary acting head of any agency has already been confirmed by the Senate, and so what happened both of them showed up at work today,
Mc Mulvaney has called this agency a sick, sad joke, but he did bring them down at this morning.
listen, I remember telling you got here. You go you useless, Weasel Euro anti american rights, this one's got jelly having our bureaucrats like an industry. That is nothing but a help, protect us from like giant institutions, rather big banks, that the agency has returned Tommy right eleven point now
billion dollars to near
thirty million consumers from banks and financial institutions and debt collectors and predatory lenders that tried to cheat yet and mobility is making an atm as deputy. I didn't give a shit. It is ridiculous, and so we're gonna talk all about this, but we have an expert who is going to be joining us to tell us all about this
it isn t it is the woman who set up the consumer Financial Protection Bureau in the first place. Not you set it up. It was her brain child when she was a Harvard professor before she was you, a Senator Elizabeth Warrant is going to join us and talk about this. So when we come back, we will have the centre for Massachusetts.
That was before positive
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and we are back with the set
Four Massachusetts: Elizabeth Warrant Centre, worn. How are you today
good. How are you guys doing we're pretty good
We're good, MID Mulvaney did
show up at our office to claiming he runs? This is well you're, trying to tell you that a little fresh trams Y know I mean once you ve decided you can show up anywhere and just declare yourself in charge. You know what else
you gonna hit next elementary school. I can't believe you use the donor trick. That was our trick for you
when you are unpleasant in Amerika, we brought you Duncan donors and now he think the exact role in their that's right. Somebody
right, and you guys that you know I put this on you, but you taught him the power of
don't get down at our dna. You bet so just a start off. Let's talk about the consumer Financial Protection Bureau
and why it matters and what its accomplished so far, because it is like
many things in Washington, unfortunately abbreviated all the time, and I saw someone on Twitter
seeing you know c p b, and they were like that that have to do with a college football play off. So
talk about what it is. Ok, so, let's start,
didn't exist. Ok show back: when
in the battle days like in the run up to the financial crisis. There are all these different laws were split
the author consumer protection laws to make sure that people can get cheated on mortgages and credit cards, and so on. The problem was
All of those laws were spread among about seven different agencies in Washington and for none of the
agencies was consumer protection, their first job, so in other guys at the FED, were like we do. Monetary policy cause we're cool
and the guys over the Yossi we're like we make sure the bank state
Annabelle and so on and so on through the agencies and the consequence of that
that consumers, starting in all a whole lot in the eighties and and much more in the nineties, than into the two thousands just keep getting tricked and trapped and
pinched and cheated
on one financial deal after another, in particular on home mortgages,
and so people end up with these terrible home mortgages. We know the bank's packaged mob made a brazilian dollar selling them a brazilian dollars repay
doing them, and then
it turned out those little mortgages were kind of like grenades with the pins pulled out
they started blowing up and when
blew up? They took down the whole economy so part
of what President Obama did when he comes in office. As he says, we gotta get the economy,
stabilize that was his first job, basically
to change the rules so stuff like this does not happen again and
idea. Was let's create an agency that consumer agency inlets pick
all those consumer protection laws and may be fell in a couple of gaps and put me
An agency make em
sponsible for me,
sure, to stand up to the Big Wall Street banks and make sure that consumers just don't catch cheated. So that's what the press
it was able to sign into law. As part of Dodd Frank, he asked
me come in. I set the agency up for about a year,
the agency, was up and running. I went back up to Massachusetts and fat little
agency has been out there doing its job. It's gonna get out the little engine that could.
And so far in the
six years that has been up and running, it has for
these giant financial institutions, hope you're sitting down to return more than
twelve billion dollars directly to people they cheated, and
its handled about a million million to complaints against the companies and thats,
yonder changed the world. It means not that our thanks perfect, but
means there is really a cop on the beat so that families can too,
got a mortgage credit card or student loans and now,
did they have at least got a fighting chance to have a level playing field and they're, not just gonna get robbed when it happens,
that's what the agency has been up to an it's. It's been pretty darn successful, which is why it's pretty
or an unpopular in some corners and it's pretty user friendly
to write for government agency. I know that there is that basically just a hotline, you can call up if you feel, like you, ve, been cheated by credit card company or,
anger, payday lender and you
in reach, some one and they d take care of your claim. O call
If you are so old school, you can actually go online or even better, do even better.
and in fact let me let me give the little plug here. If you think you ve been treated like your bank pop,
Ten dollars fee on you or your stuff.
wonder charge to the wrong interest rate. Anything that you think went wrong. You gotta, see, F, P, b, C, F, P, b, dot gum
and one of the things that will pop up is complaints. You can click on that complaint button and get a little form fill it out, and here is how it works is actually
really cool it? Go straight to the agency. You give em all the information, the agency than Tags it
and since it straight to the banker, mortgage company or credit card
company or whatever it is that your complaining about in a clock starts running and-
the agency keeps up with whether or not they respond to you and how they respond and whether or not you are satisfied by that response and here's a really cool feature, if you wanted,
no they're look and you can sort the information on complaints you can find out which banks get the most complaints you can find out. What cup
products. Gender engender the most complaints you can see who gets the best response rate? That is, if someone's comply,
Does the does the company come back and fix the problem and do it quickly
What this is really about this vote, I love it
Who is making markets work better, so better lenders, the ones don't chief their customers actually done
they they have a chance now to say I'm doing better than those other guys. I dont show up in this complaint database.
Those guys over there are the ones who had thousands tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of complaints against them, not us where the good guys,
Do business with us
this is a way ultimately to empower consumers and to drive
markets so they're more efficient. Don't you just love hearing a democracy that is good said. Are you
told the Washington Post that if mulvaney takes over the consumer Financial Protection Bureau, it would change
calculation, that every giant bank makes in their executive sweet when decide
just how close to come to breaking the law. What did you mean by that will think of it? This way
One of the jobs of the consumer agency is to enforce the law, no law
enforcement has allotted decisions, made behind closed doors and
over the last five years, like I was just talking about six years with rich Cordery at the helm,
consumer agency, has gone after some pretty darn big fish, like you, remember, well, Spargo, ah hell the fake account scandal.
and plenty of other big lenders and been praying
save in leaving, enter and saying you cheated people here. You cheated people there and here's the deal you're both gonna have to give back the money and pay a penalty for treating you put a different director involved.
And the question, is you got a guy like Mulvaney, whose already said you don't believe in the agency? You don't think they ought to be done. That kind of thing. How
the calculation change inside the consumer
agency. The part you and I can't see the part that takes place behind closed doors, how many investigations,
don't get pursued or get pursued lightly, or only gently. How many times today
Let's be a little easier. Let's let him
apology, apologize and back, let's, you know, get a little slap on the wrist. Whatever
and as soon as the big banks, the big
corporations say oh
who, cop on the very different from the old cop than their calculation
about whether to run
as to the edge by adding an extra fifteen dollar fee on this or recalculating.
tourist rates or not supervising their employees, about whether their opening fake accounts or whatever other
in a scam. They come up with it. Just changes. That's the whole point is the head.
guys, who are driven to say, profit, profit, profit, profit, profit
and we'll go is close to the line, as we can
so long as we think we're not gonna get any push back from
a cop on the beat
so the guys we're gonna take advantage of consumers and how do I know there are no cause they did. I know it because they do, and so
if the agency is run by somebody who thinks the big problem is those
poor giant. Banks are being pushed too hard, not cheat their customers. If that's, the change that gets made is gonna reverberate, not only through the executive sweet
the big banks. It means alternately through every household in America that now is just a little bit more likely to get cheated. So one of the things at stake here
and your point. One of the reasons they want to put mulvaney. There is to enact that ideologues
the agency was set up to be independent. Republicans have update, objected to just how independent the agency is cage a little bit about why
important and how that impacts. The legality
What mulvaney is doing, yup show this
I hear that starts actually back during the civil war. You guys ready for that I've ever
like so that's when the first banking regularly.
Tori Oversight Agency is enacted and law, so Congress says we can have some
over the over the banks and they establish what but becomes the office of the controller of the currency and why the insights that Congress had even back then is enough. You're going after big banks, you better make it independent of Congress, but cause, if
can cover it cut it in the political sphere were not so sure they'll be tough on the big banks as they ought to be, so the funding was set up independently. That means their funding
through fees and other mechanisms not through the organ
budget process and they were given independence, the
see. For example, has a single director noughts confirmed its not made by the president that director and confirmed by Congress within that's it? It goes out and acts independently, because that's what helps key
the markets, honest! That's what help keeps us safe,
and we know that there are not in Washington and are making one
campaign contributions in return, forgetting less enforcement when they break the law, so that the basic idea behind all of them
dilatory agencies that oversee the funny
dual system, the FED, the o c c, the empty
I see that the main regulators there
so the sea of P b. Is this
I'm kind of thing, Congo spilt it to be independent, the poor
Sudan has one power, whether the the of GPS,
Sir, and that is to nominate the director, then Congress has
one power, and that is to confirm that director, after that,
is an independent agency, just like other independent agencies and government. That doesn't mean there's no review there. Isn't it
and instructive procedures, actors all kinds of things it has to do internally, but the point
try to remove it from some political influence.
so the concern right now is that don't trump
just pick somebody who hates the agency and has said that pre publicly he's pick somebody
who already has a job working for Donald Trump?
who can be removed if he d-
and do their job in a way that Donald Trump likes, and so there are a lot of folks out there,
really concern that the real,
point here is not just to get somebody into the age
see who can
blow it up, but
at somebody into the agency, who is directly beholden to Donald Trump and now just have to cut up increase the factor of how much we oughta.
Worried about that. This is an interim of appointment
which means even under Donald Trump calculation? Under the the vacancies ACT, it will
we be for about eight months, but at the end that eight months
They can appoint somebody else and at the end of that
months. Somebody else, and somebody else, and somebody else so
what we really need here is weak
seriously this interim appointment and make sure that the
president does what he is legally entitled to do, what Congress set up and that is to nominate a director and then have the Senate vote on at director. Half the Republicans
belly up to it and say whether or not they want a director that Donald Trump has picked. Somebody who's.
pro consumer, I hope that's the case or somebody who's pro bank, in which case, let's call amount for it, but that Donald Trump doesn't get.
Manipulate this agency through the back door bike.
aiming that he's got an interim director who works directly for him and
also running an independent agency. Yes
just alluded to the more alarming development. In my opinion, which is even if we under English wins this court fight Trump could pursue
We find a republican to appoint as director who could get fifty one votes in the Senate because their publicans control the Senate and then do the same type of damage. And then you know it's a five year appointment so
Why does this fight matter so much that we engage in right now? And what do we do about this? Seemingly the girl
or danger, which is that we have a director of the agency that
they're for five years, and we can't do anything about shop. Look it's both
one is the interim could last forever effectively.
and we don't want that to happen, nobody should want them,
happened right. We want him to have two
someone in Congress to appoint, so
interim matters, it's not automatically limited its only limited when there's a nominee who goes forward and ultimately gets confirm the second pillar
is to say what that's what the content
nation process is about is dead.
Trump cards to name some one and then the rest of us get to have a big public discussion about that person do
Remember the guy poster who was named to be head of the Labor Department, Dimona hidden, remember he is not of the secretariat of the collective over, and you remember why people took
look at him and said, wow hold on and not all
did he have democratic opposition
Republicans who faded away and set on mom not do in this one,
and so we got a different secretary of labour. He might not be the guy I would choose, but
He sure in the first guy that they came up with or look at, Betsy Divorce
she made it through? I get.
She is now secretary of education, but boy are the American P
paying attention to what she does right. That was a hard fought battle which really forced both Donald Trump and fifty
Republicans to stand up and say yeah, I'm good with a Secretary
Education who doesn't believe in public education and
I view, as you may come out and say that in public and
do the same thing around this consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Maybe they'll think twice about who they want to put in charge of it. This
such an agency? This is government that works for the people is now,
out there for the giant banks. It sought out there for the student one scammers it's out there for the people in its.
Do sing results every single day. Look I'll put it this way. We didn't get this agency just because
President Obama said he wanted it. The banks were totally opposed to it there,
spent more than a million dollars a day lobbying against Dodd Frank
right at the centre of their Bowles. I was now
consumer agency, but the price
students said we're gonna do this agency, he stood behind it. He stood firm one,
I'll be blunt. People in his own administration were like how about we throw that under the bus in returns for some other things, we'd like to do the president on us, not
for years now, but here
great on this. He stood strong in here's the deal people all across this country got engaged and thats how we got the consumer Financial Protection Bureau. So now it's proven what it can do now, it's out their fighting on behalf
families. Now it's cut a lot bigger fan base than it had before, but that me
We got to step up and defend this agency. We gotta be in this fight,
We gotta be in this fight to make sure that Donald Trump
all of the law and doesn't just got to put
his Diane and override what counts
were said in Dodd, Frank would be the succession plant and when
time comes that Donald Trump nominates someone we need to make our voices heard if we like the person great and if we don't, we need be loud so just a tongue about this,
sort of legal issue. It feel like it's already been defused. Inter a liberal, say it's
english and conservative say as mulvaney. You know you were there
section of this agency. In the reasons it was made, independent Dodd Frank, was written with a secession plan. How clear cut is this legal argument? Is there
Any vow validity to the argument that the trump lawyers are making that he has the right to make this appointment show it look
all I can tell you how I see it. I understand that there are lawyers on both sides. That's why they should go to court, but I'm just gonna give you straight how I see it. There was a point earlier in the drafting of the Sea F p B,
Where it said will use
they can see, sack to fill in the blank when a director is not available and that we deliberately
taken out and new language was put in to say nope. Here's gonna be the deal there's a director and if-
director is unavailable. Deputy director has the powers and duties of the director becomes the
interact, or so. In other words, you couldn't
for something more deliberate Congress, thought about doing it through the vacancies ACT and know what we're gonna do
We're gonna do our own succession plant at this
in time. The vacancies ACT also has its legislative history
you know the vacancies ACT dates back decades and
it says is that it applies to all the
agencies that are in place.
the moment that the vacancies ACT passed, but going forward the vacancies
Act applies unless Congress decides to do it,
in succession plan, which is exactly what they did in the case of the consumer agency, so that wasn't me
Larry Tribe, jumped on this first and said. He thinks that the statute is pretty clear here.
And a lot of thought,
lawyers have jumped in to say so now I get that Donald Trump,
administration, says no, no, no, they get to quote fill a vacancy, but look
there ain't no vacancy here what you read Dodd Frank, the very minute the second
That rich Cordery said Bang I'm out of here. I have now resigned good bye at that instant by operation of the law that Congress Road lay Andre English became the acting
rector. So there's no there's not like this moment of vacancy, where Donald Trump gets to jump in and if he's gonna claim
but she is the vacancies act here. It really
Were you guy started this? What was it twenty minutes ago and- and that is
what else did they get to come in and declare themselves in charge right, that's what makes it seem so dangerous, yup
one last question: will let you go. The government runs out of money on December. Eighth, Miss Mcconnell
and Paul Ryan need democratic votes to keep it open. Underwear
condition. Should Democrats give Republicans the votes they need to keep the government open. What's on the list of demands for you, she we pass the dream
act to refund Obamacare and Republicans refused to do those things. Should the Democrats with whole all their votes and shut the government them, so I
we are in the middle of negotiations? But let me put it this way: the press,
and of the United States said that Congress should vote on the dreamer, and I'm with in Congress, should vote on the dreamer.
Do it right now, we don't have to do this later in a budget act. We could do it this week. Put the jury
on the floor in the Senate, put the dream act on the floor, a clean dream act in the house. I think the votes are there and
the House and the Senate, what's pass it what's pet, but send it onto the president and let him cited into law. After all, the
knighted states made a promise to these young people,
President Obama said come out of the shadows
and we will give you a chance to go to school, to take jobs, to join the military, to serve your country to be a part of the only home. Most of you have ever known. It was the right thing to do and it was a commitment he committed our country and I believe,
we have to honour that commitment. So for me, I'm ready to vote on the dream act right now. If the Republicans don't wanna put it in the budget, I'm cool, but I want to vote on the dream act before we get to the
and then we can sit and do all of our numbers around the budget. We can talk about the other things that need to be in there. Of course, we have to support the affordable care act, the Americans
do not want us to roll back healthcare coverage for twenty five million Americans, I'm ready for that fight. But what I'd like to do is, let's honour our promise to the dreamers.
First senator before you even do that, I really would urge you to go. Get some Duncan doughnuts get in the car
I do see a p b. That's really all that you need to take over the same legal claim as make mulvaney you're supposed to run it from the beginning. I think it's. I think it's time you guys
baby don't out on me for joining us, entered it and go ahead. I think there are eighty but by parliament
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Say five hours for you, five dollars for world central kitchen
on the part of the day we
joined by one of the great legal minds of our time: Obama,
former regulatory tsar and the author of the new book impeachment a citizen's guide can sustain tat.
how you doing I'm great pleasure to be here I cast by
it's a pleasure to have. It is a pleasure. Ok, so you write a book at a clip of like
on per week. I think you write books like we tweet
I think, I'm looking I'm on your Amazon pages. Really unbelievable. Most of my books are twenty letters, sir, though short books and really tiny re read that smart
What made you decide to write this book on impeachment
We bought a house and conquered and wives studied to consume, prolong, come hadn't, really thought about the American Revolution and I'm kind of surrounded by artifacts of the revolution, and it made me think well what was impeachment about it, and if you read the declaration of independence, it's completely like article seven impeachment, and if you look at the history in the eighteenth century, it's two ideas are on fire in our little country, one
his shop government and the other is the equal dignity of human beings, and I think we ve missed that slice. The slice
we all reveres ride and when the constitution are ratified and kind of the best window onto it is impeachment. That was the
shots fired round world that everybody heard in seventeen. Forty and fifty is when we started impeaching people were follow, orders from the crown and at that,
gave a window onto our country. I think it gives you really essential one american exceptionalism is landed. That's what got me into a beach meant cigarettes. I've seen you D
I've the book as about our country, about our struggle for self government in the relation between impeachment. In that struggle, what is
that mean, and what is that
history tell us about this moment in time. When we have a president that a lot of people would like to see impeached,
tell us where the boss, so that the first thing
there's! No, they we don't ever king. We wouldn't want a constitution by the way without impeachment, so the first thing is
We, the people, those aren't just no words, those are a commitment opera.
Most and the shocking thing which I think really connects. What happened in the founding period with the civil rights movement, with the movement for Gay Rights and James Ex marriage with the women's movement with what's happening now with respect to sexual harassment.
is there was an idea were all not subjects where citizens and the idea of equal dignity, which was on the loose and impeachment. You know it's right near that part of the constitution that forbids tiles and of nobility, and that's not a coincidence that the ideas that you don't have any princes or kings here
and for those who are concerned about the current person, whose doing various things from the White House, it's completely legitimate to say you know why weren't you
There was a war fought to put us there and we have some mechanisms to make sure that real, so using this debate,
collusion, emoluments and other issues where there is this question as to whether
just a political wrong or a legal wrong, and then you see the debate turn to what
mean there needs to be. You know a legal crime for some for president to be impeach. Where do you fall down on that? When someone
something that may be egregious. That violates the spirit of the cost.
Vision, but may not be technically illegal when you think he saw Hamilton and Madison and they were completely
near neighbour out. I never met
so they're they're not ambiguous on this.
And later, when the musical, it's so weird to take your guidance from a musical and I well, I decided to write a little theme for the music. All kind of Santa Hamilton, New York, New York and I haven't gotten out of the little scene and little scene from closer Hamilton from the Federalist papers who says it's. An abuse of public trust doesn't have to be a crime is at the start,
up to thank adjourning out again behind it away. I said if you think, you're completely work, so just where the rhythm of my own cadence,
So they could do at the Hamilton casket do it, but the idea that Hamilton was pushing which was Dodd unusual to him. They all thought this was if the president abuse of the pardon power, an ear Madison said that that's unimpeachable, France is the present and procured a treaty by lie
and this was said by a prominent founder during the ratification debates and lines of the sad thing- is to treat our way. That's unimpeachable events and by the way, that's not a crime. If the President invade civil rights and civil liberties in was that in Massachusetts, that's unimpeachable events and these weren't contested clans, so the ideas
if you have an abuse of presidential power, couch unimpeachable events and it doesn't matter if it's a crime. Yet
interesting that I heard you talk about how you think that what happened
with co me I'm out from fired him and why he fired him is probably not unimpeachable offence, but
firing Mahler would be or any abuse of the
hard in power to cover up for how he had fired co me would be impeach, but can you explain that yeah so
call me discharge at least there's an account, which is that any new president after what happened, would be a reasonable in getting rid of him? Not because he's a bad guy think yes, integrity, though
some pretty terrible mistakes, but because it is just a history there and a fresh start is ok and given the complexity of everything to fire him, isn't it isn't an abuse of authority? The president has to choose, as on afghan director, not necessarily, but if you find someone who investigate
you or your White House apparatus, Sir your campaign for potential interaction, let's say with the Russians, that's getting!
really near the line and think that way to port. It is the impeachment clause
shit the convention. The talk was about procuring the office by corrupt means, and there the specific reference was corrupting the electoral college by working with a country whose not our friends to get off us. That's that's kind of core impeach about France and then, if you're wishes are not claiming that happened. But if you discharge someone who's investigating lab that kind of self inflation, that's kind of what the whole separation of powers the stem was designed to ensure we didn't have and content
the separation of our system and house of Representatives can impeach the guy. If you dont something that extreme nature. What would you say if a president's was trying to stop an FBI investigation into his national security adviser and thus fired the FBI director after he had told the FBI director to please let this go left the sky?
off the hook, who might be in some trouble or even where does obstruction of justice sort of fall? I know obstruction of justice on its own, doesn't necessarily let you know. You probably think it's leads to its an appreciable offence, but in general, what kind of obstruction of justice do you think would okay, so so
where the president, besides I'm gonna, go on vacation in Paris for the next six months. That's impeachable, though it's not a crime. If the president obstructs justice by saying that someone who violated the speeding laws Didn'T- and that was
a lie and designed to protect his ground that we very bad, but it wouldn't be in Portugal, so
Fraction of justice is a grave act. We need to know what kind of thing
The obstruction of justice about if it's about protecting one of his own advisers depends on what exactly is he doing so with its enlisting the apparatus of the federal government to prevent?
An investigation of National Security Advisor for wrongdoing, that's kind of
grayish on buddy,
I mean that our pre harsh talk because impeachment is
A very high bar impeachment should appear in the grey zone there. It's pretty bad, so big any White House would be well advised
to tell the president don't go anywhere near there if you're, trying to prevent
legitimate, otherwise legitimate investigation into one of your top people for what might be furious wrong doing so. You know under President Bush, some very confident president Obama completely confident and any number present Reagan completely confident top people if they dont go there and one of the things that would be set in explaining. Why don't go there? Is that it
toward the insatiable territory. It's not as horrific as tiring someone who's investigating you
and your apparatus itself for interaction. Let's say with an unfriendly foreign country still lacquered so here on this, but you know we ve told people not to be waiting for in a sort of them
each man ferry to come, save them from from Donald Trump compete on clause, impeachment clause right other you gotta say Mass was
was terrible on that, because we can talk about all of these legal
the reasons for or against impeachment, but at the end of the day it seems like it's. A political question for the House of Representatives
do you have any of you did a lot of research on this journey insight into you know what the founders thought or how they hoped to prevent in peace
went from purely being used as a political tool that was sort of based on the partisan passions of the moment completely so
hi crimes and demeanor standard is specifically designed to ensure that
There is a republican or Democrat. You don't impeach the person just because you think their terrible, even if you think they're policies are kind of ruining the country you can't. If each someone for vat on the high crimes in this domain or standard doesn't mean it has to be a crime, it means it has to be a pretty awful abuse of the power you have
virtue. They president and that can be intruding on civil rights and civil liberties that can be of use of the pardon power to be making war. Those are all candidates for unimpeachable advances, but the political disagreement, even if it's very sharp, is not legitimate.
I think for those who work, especially up in arms, about present
Tromp, that's actually a good thing, because it's a reality check saying that we should, whatever we think of the guy, haven't a prince.
On our heads, which means, would we want this person to be?
impeach for that act. If he was our guy and even something like what we ve been talking about preventing
investigation of south by firing someone who's engaged in legitimate investigation of something that would be independently teachable, then I hope we all say. Even if it's our guy, I asked the girl he's doing that
so, I would say it's not fully right to say this is a political issue, the issue of impeachment, that is, if a high crime and misdemeanor has been committed,
this or any future President TB day, we need to insist that if it
The committee is not a matter of discretion, whether each person by reading of the founding Gary it is as you gotta do it you can't say
he's our bomb and he gets to stay Europe legally, obliged to say his car bomb bunny, some something so horrific. He asked leave.
There might be a political reality- is gonna, be a very heavy burden on we, the people to get our representatives to do that, but for Nixon that basically worked key Republicans left him because the grounds for impeachment were so palpably there so in the federalists papers is there. Anything
about a billionaire funding, a petition for impeachment, get his idea numbers up visa fees.
Stars or as is their precedent for it, is about the Federalist
number seventy. That's the billionaire back then trail
they understood it s, really a lot more money,
fire. I should say that, Mr Steiner, I really admire his commitments on climate change and he's done great things impeachment. We should have you no kind of reverence toward the institution and I think we need it
and just to get a little sense from the desire that its use such a bomb. He asked the girl and that's not what the plan is about.
cast in two thousand seven, so twenty five casts unseen completed novels ago or nonfiction works
came to. I want to canvass your joined by a Pulitzer Prize, winning expert on genocide and economists name.
Us and goals be, and the first door you went to. You are ass, a simple question: when is the Caucasus
and despite that brain power, none of you knew what do you want to
I apologise to the eye. What Europe today that lack of preparation, but I'll tell you. When I didn't do the answer, I had a little political skill which saw the border how to Labrador Retriever and
actually love Labrador retrievers, so I kind of sat down with Labrador Retriever and it, and we got that love
rather than by the way yeah oversized pick on twitter, and so on
when I say that I will voters thank Bank, you for doubt only having labrador driver but roared, no bonding with me such that you actually turned Iowa for president to be Obama. Good story
and imagine that you get a knock on the door and its casts honesty and some at the power and also goals be well here.
I mean who less about where to go. I sure there are like,
oh, I will. I read all of your works. I know all about you guys, murder their deadly, not academic strangers, to make all the papers of the quarterly journal of Economics there, especially if there is a real page turner. Kazaa unseen beg you for joining the pod. Please come back again soon. Everyone go check out, causes new book impeachment citizens. Guy
and so many other wonderful works like
once in a year when you come back about your book about what happens when a president refuses to recognise, as impeachment will probably about an important question of the area. Thank you very much,
enjoy your gas are, I think,
Ass Einstein and Elizabeth Warrant for joining us today. This is our ultra bathing.
That we wanted to bring up Sheridan some trouble very interesting, some several
pieces. All in a row gave termination of the first piece about the incredible shrinking shared and now your times in washing posts had them on the same
Someone is doing some spinning to protect our boy to protect yeah, because you neither saying it's, his role is being diminished and the White House now dare doesn't his big portfolio of like Middle EAST peace, and you note saving techniques
g and whatever else I love is not really panting out. My favorite part of one of his profiles was when they said that it was Jared thy dear to maybe to fire call me
Then he was pretty happy when, when Mueller started a special counsel cuz, he said he'll once mother's involved. Maybe these congressional committees will stop. Investigating us in mower. Will just go
this thing. I love the issue that Europe doesn't really not the bright it at all. It's not the brightest ball busy. I love the idea that when you remove something from a per folio from Jarrett sport Folio, it's really just someone walking into his office in kind of removing a little tab from afar.
Because he has actually done anything and it could be related baby
the news. We got on Thanksgiving Day, great story by the New York Times
mere terms, that is to say, we get tough story about the Nazis.
great story about reporters Workin on Thanksgiving Day to tell us that lawyers for Michael Flan, president drums former National security Visor notified the president's legal team in recent days that they could no longer discuss the special council investigation according to four people involved, in the case, an indication that Mr Flynn is cooperating with prosecutors or negotiating a deal. That seems like a very, very big deal ages.
because when was it so caught I mean just was so screwed intimidate and also by the way, the fact that, when the is involved means like it's not just his own future on a line,
this family maximum leverage. In the reason this is such a big deal, is
Malta only going to go for the deal and not prosecute Flynn. If Flynn can turn on someone higher up the
and there are not a lot of people left above Michael Flynn. There is the present it states in Jared, and I don't know who else Don Junior
the Mercer important because they have an ultra but just breaking news. Roy more just gotta GNP, writing Challenger Marine colonel with some impressive credentials, but few political roots according to SAM Stein. So boys
two was just stick on this out. Your holiday records Lovett start reading the tunnels, all tweets, allowed I'd on the descendants of english tyrants have gotten engaged. She threw Miller she's around
yeah he's. I do not know much about this. I don't click on it because we won the war Emily made for me for a moment without MEG in marking and people on twitter we're hoping that you would rant about issues on suits. I really is unsuitable Elijah's now that in this cause, he's like this is the content is gonna, get context forget about those cps be stuff. You guys riddle recording like a couple notes on the british family, all their ass. It should be seized and given away
It's one made it all the way to the other two eggs do. It was really weird when William and Harry traded spots as heartthrob, you know William, was the heart from then I was
has like nature, not that now you know the gun, the airline.
You don't tell me you know who knows the cause I never
about a royal wedding, though I do like the crown
saw that's a correction, I didn't know we wrapped up everything. The great will see all later. Here's a Roy Moors writing Challenger Mulvaney
can it be hearing about half an hour, some doughnuts? He says he runs crooked media and mobility is written in the chair, the studio ordaining related pundit LEO, and what is loud, I checked, and actually this is the president's option, and so now I m a hose I make mulvaney. I am a host of POD save America. These are my dogs. This is my office, it's all mine, I mean
This is made mulvaney signing up.
Transcript generated on 2020-10-17.