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Rep. Adam Schiff joins to break down all of the latest impeachment news, Pete Buttigieg takes the lead in Iowa, and Elizabeth Warren offers her own Medicare for All plan. Then Senator Sherrod Brown talks to Jon F. about impeachment, health care, and his new book, Desk 88: Eight Progressive Senators Who Changed America. 

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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has it occurred or for free we get credit for sending you. Are you ready to hire faster, just go to zip recruiter, dot com, Slash cricket Welcome to buy the America I'm John Fabric, I'm John love it sometime either in just a few minutes, we'll be talking to the one and only Adam Schiff, about a few things. You've got going on this week busy the one another one, and only I thought we were booking Jim Jordan. This whole time she yeah yeah. He could make it. He said he's yelling at a Wall Jack. I hope that I make sure I don't change. I don't respect his policy on undermining the rule of law. I do respect his no jacket policy. Yes, me too,
we're also gonna talk about what recent democratic victories in red States like Kentucky and now Louisiana can tell us about the politics of impeachment, and down the brand New DES Moines Register Poll. That shows me repeat way out in the lead and finally, you'll hear my interview with a good friend of the pod who stopped by the office on Friday, Senator Sherod Brown, man, big pods has huge pots love it? How is the show this week made a great love it or leave it joined by Whitney things Jomandi one of the funniest shows we've done in a long time, so check it out, Dion waiters ate an edible and they had to lend a plane heard that I heard that very relatable, but I believe you have an announcement about a little lover. Leavitt road trip, yes, love it or leave. It is coming to Iowa City on January 30th, right before the caucuses. The presale starts Wednesday at one thousand, am central crooked dot com, slash events, the passwords crooked in all caps, you can come check out the show speaking of Iowa speaking of Iowa Tommy. This is the big week right Tuesday. The first part of a five part series on the Iowa caucuses will be released. Tuesday's episode is going to focus.
On the Obama campaign in Iowa the way we structured our strategy and what it meant for his candidacy over the long term, because I think it helps us understand why there's so much focus on Iowa today and then you said, two were going to go through all the history of how I would came first and will do into the pretty reasonable arguments that maybe this isn't the best way to pick a president, will talk about the good and the bad, the Iowa caucuses, and then there will be four episodes in a row and they're going to do one more in January closer to the result. So I've been working on this a while with the great folks at Pineapple St Studios an very excited to release it to the world, and I will just say little endorsement for Maine. I realize there's a lot going on this week, a lot of hearings tomorrow morning, but listen to the first episode. It isn't so great it is. You know, especially because all we do is talk about poles in politics and national stuff
When you hear some of these field organizers, you just you can't help but be inspired yeah, I think that'll be the part people like, which is that politics feels bad all the time when you're hanging out with a twenty year old, who is dedicating their life to trying to help a candidate win, no matter who that candidate is, it is inspiring and impressive and something worth doing. Finally, we'll be doing our live group thread during the public impeachment hearings nearly every day this week and on Wednesday night during the debate sounds excited. This week a news you can so you can hear from us in real time, while everything is happening subscribe to our channel at Youtube, dot, com, cricket, media, ok, let's go, the news with us this morning: house, intelligence, chairman and friend of the pod Adam Schiff, congressman thanks for being here, it's great to be with you Mr chairman, I want to start with something: that's been troubling us about how you conducted this hearing. It was bad. Last week it looks to be worse. This week, you've schedule these hearings to begin at nine, a dot m Eastern, which is six a dot m Pacific. You are hour
congressman. We, I live in your district. How can you do this to Us well you're, just going to have to get up early. What can I tell you, but we have two hearings back to back so we'll be going all morning afternoon and potentially into the evening, so they're going to be long days ahead of us, I will say, a congressman. You made us all very proud out here in at LOS Angeles, the way that you've conducted the hearing so far of all the testimony and developments from last week. What do you the main takeaway is for people who might have not been paying super close attention Well, I hope people get a sense of many things of the seriousness of the presence. Misconduct of the dedication of the public servants from the State Department and the Defense Department and swear. Who came against the wishes of the administration. Who did their lawful duty answered the lawful subpoena and told the american
what they, what they knew, that's the way it should be we're facing. I think one of the most significant and all encompassing obstruction campaigns that we've ever seen by a president, and these just people like best Ivan Ivic and Bill Taylor and George Kent and others that the country here from this week have testified you know at great risk to themselves in their careers, and I hope, the public I have an appreciation for their courage and hope it will inspire others. Currently, the Republicans defensive Trump seems to over overtime, but a lot of them are settling on a question about the president's intent in his personal motives. In this quid pro quo, or this extortion scheme it seems like they are in part, dismissing evidence from witnesses as hearsay as a way to build that defense. How old Democrats, deal with that argument, since, at the same time, Republicans are also trying to prevent people mulvaney or pump from Bolton from testifying
when they would actually be able to speak to the president's mindset and intent, This is the thing that I think is so difficult for Republicans, which is they are supporting the president's efforts to stonewall their not urging administration to make these witnesses available a few of them were saying anything about all the thousands of documents in ministration was holding instead of saying? Well, there should be more direct witnesses The reality is, though, we have plenty of direct witnesses. We have, for example, Mick Mulvaney, the president's chief of staff as saying on, live television, how there was quid pro quo that essentially the military aid was being withheld because they wanted Ukraine to do this local investigation into this, discredited sorry that was Ukraine that interfere in our election in twenty. Sixteen, not the Russians you other witnesses who I think quite directly. Even though their testimony may be limited to discrete episodes go right to the heart of the president's intent.
Robert Holmes, is one of them now I can only speak to his written testimony because, that's all that's been released so far, He over hears this conversation in this restaurant in Kiev win a master on Linden, the president in which the President wants to know are Ukraine is going to do the investigations and someone assures him that they are and when they get off the phone, the State Department employee Asks- and these are not my word, so you'll forgive Maine, does the don't give a shit about Ukraine and someone's answer. Is he doesn't give a shit about Ukraine? He just cares about the big stuff, and that means what effects his personal interests an that. I think uh tells you a lot about the Lance intimate involvement in this, as well as his frame of mind what he cares about, whether he's acting in the US interests and, of course, the National security interests are in helping defend Ukraine against russian aggression, congressman you obviously
to wait for weeks and months for courts to settle this, but why not at least try to subpoena. Bolton and Mulvaney and then hold them in contempt. If they don't show up what what sort of the thinking behind the strategy there In terms of yeah, well, we subpoena Mulvaney, so he has received a subpoena and he has I'm it. Bolton has told to see if subpoena him? He will take us to court, and this is what his lawyers have said: we're not interested in playing rope, a dope for months in the courts. We think that a Bolton should what three individuals who work for him have done. And that is uh. He should make himself available income. Justify. You should show the same courage that those that work for him have damaged. They were also instructed not to testify. They also did so at personal risk. They were told in no
in terms that the things they say could be privileged and therefore they shouldn't come, but they did anyway and If old were sincere about his willingness to testify, then he would have come to position when we asked him to so right now, we've seen testimony from Taylor, Kent Evanna Vitch. It has been, I think, extraordinary to watch devastate. Sing to the arguments that Republicans have been making, and yet I think, there's been this dichotomy in the hearings between the kind of show that some of your republican colleagues are putting on and then the struggle of the the report can lawyer to actually make inroads into the argument and I think there's a distance there between the facts that are really impossible to argue
within the political realities in equities at the Republicans, are grappling with and they're sort of desperate to try to distract from this sort of mounting evidence behind the scenes. Is there a different posture on the part of these Republicans? Are there more sort of open an reflective conversations behind the scenes that we're not seeing or is what we're seeing on television the posture they're showing you when the cameras aren't on? Well, I you know, I think- and I certainly I get feedback from some of my colleagues on both the democratic. Public inside including republican senior Republicans, who would come up Maybe after hearing and say you did really well um, that's something they're going to say publicly publicly that are all attacking Maine, but other You know are more candid, I think, with some of my colleagues and are willing to express their concerns. You some
frankly expressed the concerns early on in public, MIKE Turner, for example, expressed that he thought with the president had was not okay in that call. But As we've seen the present come down on anyone who dv It's from the party line that this was a perfect call in any way they go after, and so MIKE Turner that we heard in the hearing the other day was a completely different MIKE Turner. Then we heard a month ago, you know similarly, the president when after I think very Thornbury Thornbury said on the Sunday show that it was not a perfect call and it was problematic and the present school that fools errand to to say things like that and so the White House I think, has been very heavy hand. Skillful, you might say in all rating. Anyone who deviates from Trump's or- actually that they're scared, and so we see this technical, where some
auditioning for the president for future roles, potentially in the Trump administration, some are just trying to keep their head down and others are. You know just not willing to confront this deeply unethical man, but how Could you watch this testimony? How could you hear people like best Yuvan and Taylor and Mister Kent, and not be alarmed that the President knighted States was with holding hundreds of millions of dollars, that all of us in Congress, supported to defend Ukraine against russian aggression, really defend the United States against russian expansionism uh and holding it up to try to coerce, this dependent allietta do these political investigations? You can imagine how would feel if any democratic president were ever engage in half this conduct, two quick things. First, I just want to note that this conversation has been chockablock with pizzazz.
Thank you for that. Second, second, Roger Stone was just convicted of lying to Congress to protect Trump Gordon Sandlin had to revise his testimony in may have to again these visuals? Having demonstrated, let's call it a lot of respect for the truth. You concerned about President Trump, possibly pardoning Roger Stone, and what message that might send to others who are asked to testify? Well, I I've been turned all along with the presence abuse of the pardon power in the way that he would dangle pardons over like, I think you did with Michael Cohen, in the way that he would appraise people like Paul Manafort who refused to cooperate and call others who did cooperate. Rats. He speaks like an organized crime boss So, yes, we have to, I think, all be concerned with the continuing possibility that Donald Trump will pardon either right. Stone, Paul, Manafort or others, and is that would send I have to say
Those kind of actions only build to the case against the president for obstruction of justice and obstruction of the Congress, so is apparel in the president. Taking those steps one thing is perfectly consistent about this president, and that is, he doesn't care about anyone else or anything else, but himself, so the judgment about whether to partner these people will be strictly viewed through the prism of what's best for Donald Trump I don't know how to weigh that calculus for the White House, except that You must know that, where do you engage in this kind of abuse of the pardon power he may be just adding to the way evidence against the president in a potential account for obstruction of Congress and obstruction of justice, do you expect Gordon I'm going to revise his testimony, but once again this week it seems,
keys in need of some recollection refreshment again, I don't know what to expect. Can say that one of the reasons we want to do these hearings in open session. Now that we've done our preliminary fact finding is with american people to be able to judge the crap bilitis witnesses for themselves and make their own determinations about who they believe is telling the truth and who might not be uh. I think that uh don't case does demonstrate that we take perjury before our committee very seriously. There are two people now have been convicted of it, Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, and I would
that all the witnesses that come before us will be very mindful of their obligation to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Speaking of perjury, which is in a very hot right now, there is out reports that the house may look into whether or not President Trump lied in his answers to Robert Muller is? Is there any truth to that, and can you tell us anymore about that. Well, you know one of the uh, obviously the most important parts of the mother report. Indian half the mother report was about the presence, efforts to obstruct justice and if the president lied in his aunt The mother lied under oath that only for there're substantiates a case of obstruction of justice. Well, we get done with our investigation in the intelligence committee and we make a report to the Judiciary Committee we as a caucus. You know
station with the constitution and our conscience are going to have to determine what's the before this presidential misconduct. And are we prepared to say that this is now acceptable? Ok, something that we have to expect now, future presidents or, if not uh what's the remedy and if the remedy or articles impeachment will have to consider whether among those articles of articles presence, the structure, obstruction of justice and if he lied, to Congress that could be part of that kind of an article. It could be something independent of that, but those are questions for another day right now. We still need to finish our fact finding and but doing this grandeur material. It- and this is the context in which that issue came up today, will help inform us on the issue obstruction of justice so Republicans are telling reporters that two of this weeks, witnesses, Kurt Volker and TIM Morrison- will actually help undermine the case for impeachment. Why do you
saying that, and what do you anticipate Republicans will try to argue in and their hearings well, look. I I'm glad that the Republicans at least, had some witnesses that were relevant and could provide important information with the american people and, and so we are calling them this week. I think both of these witnesses have things that are very damning to the president's case. And so I I look forward their testimony. I know we had a extensive deposition with both of was one of the first witnesses we brought in. I think we know a great deal more now than we did when he originally testified, but I think both of these witnesses have very important testimony that goes to the president's misconduct. An I will leave it to the public to judge who their testimony helps or hurts. But you know one of the key
The elements of Morrison's testimony is that in Warsaw on September, first immediately after pence is talking to was master's island and Morrison witnesses that walks over to Aramark, one is Lindsay's. Top aides has a private station and comes over to tell Morrison what was said and what he tells Morrison is. I informed Ukrainians that play one of the military aid. They were likely going to have to do these investigations that the President wanted, that is about direct evidence of coercion? every extortion as you're going to find an whi. They think that's helpful to the president and you would have to ask them. Yeah seems bad,
well I'll, just I'll just end. Where I began, I mean obviously you you know, have selected sort of the order of all these witnesses. For specific reasons. What is the story? Your hoping that collectively, the witnesses this week tell the american people about about President Trump's behavior? Well, I these witnesses lay out a long course of conduct that began with the campaign against a battery of to first of all, get Have this ambassador, who was thorn in their side. Who was championing anti corruption, efforts, urging Ukrainians not to engage in political prosecutions and What they wanted was for Ukraine to engage into two particular political prosecutions, so they clear play by getting rid of investor lot of itch? They bring in this a regular channel that runs from the
then through Mick Mulvaney, the chief of staff, through investor sandland, through Rudy Giuliani to the Ukrainian. In order to actually briber course them into doing two investigations. That Donald Trump believe would help his reelection one into the things and wanted to this debunked conspiracy, theory about two thousand and sixteen and the president was going to condition a White House meeting that President Solinski desperately wanted and four hundred million in US taxpayer. Funds to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russians in order to get you. Trying to do this dirty work, and I think you know what the american we're going to have to decide and Congress as their representatives is. Are we prepared to say, that somehow now compatible with the oath of office that a president. Can abuse his power. This way an at the other day. I you know I keep coming back to uh,
said, and that is its present. United United States doesn't care about our defense or Ukraine's defense only cares about his personal interests. That's a profound danger to country and we're going to decide what needs done about it. So I hope that Americans are watching uh, I think they are and that they will help inform their representatives about what they think. Our response should be. Congressman Schiff, we really appreciate you coming on thanks for the time and best of luck this week. Thank you very much. You take care. We will be back more news brought you by parachute. Are you lying down. How do they know? Because we have some news next week. Parachute is having a sale, everything from
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You know that's a bad idea all right, so we talked about this a little with congressman shift, but I wanted to get your real Friday's hearing with Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, who Trump fired after Rudy Giuliani, his indicted russian mobster friends and a bunch of corrupt Ukrainians orchestrated a smear campaign against her, because she was standing in the way of the bribery and extortion scheme I'll be honest. I hadn't thought that this hearing would be a huge deal because she didn't have as direct a connection to the specific scheme, but I thought her testimony was
incredibly powerful, because um, I thought her entire career as a nonpartisan diplomat who served her country in dangerous places. An fought corruption in Ukraine stood as such a stark contrast to the deeply corrupt man and men who destroy that career and then so I don't know what time it was your action to there. I mean I think we ought to remember that people who get to the rank of ambassador are the best of the best in the foreign service, you've risen through the ranks you're like a three star or A4 star general. So these are like unbelievably seasoned accomplished professional people who often work in dangerous places. So it is really nice that that did breakthrough. But then you can contrast.
That, with the like three amigos or the you know or left harnessing Igor Freeman in the fraud guarantee gang were cooking up. A James bond mission at a Hanukkah party at the White House is the channel to diplomacy, and I think it it speaks to one the just. If you see an absurdity of what the Trump Administration was trying to do, and just how brazenly corrupt what they were working on was love. Would you thank yeah? I mean I think that, what's striking about these hearings, the two hearings we saw all right, we had a Kent in Taylor, and obviously there was a twitter hullabaloo about whether or not it was dramatic enough, and then we had Ivan Ivic and Taylor and can't help really established the fact pattern so clearly about the wrongdoing. But, of course, we're going into these hearings where the wrong doing is,
Evident- and you know corroborated on multiple fronts, by virtually every witness with any kind of honesty, and you can have the dishonest witnesses, you had to revise their testimony because the evidence box them in and so there's sort of two things going on. One is building the fact case and that's like it's it's it's a bit like you know, Democrats are trying to get wait on. One side of a see, saw and Republicans are kind of their side of the sea salt to the ground, because they know the like there's just so much evidence against them and what was striking about? You is to put all that aside. The case is the case, and it's pretty fucking clear. This is a righteous and there was a there- was a moment that I'll always remember when. I, though, the Republican said to her you know: does the president have the right to have the you know the ambassador he wants and, and and she says yes of course, but why did he have to smear yeah, and it was this incredible moment of a woman who gave her life into the service of this country and
as you know several times in these hearings at all. She has this reputation and she saw that shredded by this president and it's only by dint of impeachment that she's had the opportunity to make her case publicly an to be redeemed. Twitter social media, the way politics is covered, it's designed to make you cynical. It's designed to make you feel as if your sentiments are somehow earned, or childish or naive. She went to a jazz club at the end of her tough week and she got a round of applause and there was something so wholesome about that, I had a really hard week. It's you just want to wind with some jazz and she went and they gave her a round of applause and, like you know, I think what we're seeing it this week, To me, my take away was that this was a result of people with integrity against people who don't have it, and it is been nice to see that that Honora behavior that righteous behavior still has currency still can get a foothold in our politics yeah. I think it was an important point that, because the Republicans are obviously trying to say we're trying to say during that whole
Hearing president can fire whoever he wants. That's the deal right and then they try to do the whole. Like you still have a job, don't you are still gonna be. You know this condescending thing you weren't march down the street. While someone rang a shame bell- and I think like that, the reason, besides I think you just said love it why she was a powerful witness. The reason I think she was an important witness for the case against Trump is she would agree, and the Democrats would agree. Of course, the president can fire whoever he wants at anytime and, of course like. If you have disagreements on policy on foreign policy, especially with the people who are serving you abroad, you can make changes or stuff like that, and this is someone who has worked under republican and democratic administrations and many of these Karere service officers. Career ambassadors, like they don't necessarily have to agree with the policy of the president there serving, but they they're diplomats for America and they carry out that policy to the best of their ability and basically, what
she sang with the Democrats are saying is all that aside? What the president cannot do must not be able to do is get someone out of the way fire someone purely for their own personal political interests to basically run this bribery and extortion scheme. If that a problem, he was so confident in his ability to fire anyone he wants at anytime. He wants why cook up a pretext with smears her character and accuses her a bunch of things. She didn't do it like He undercuts his own argument in the process of making it and then he goes on to attack her in the middle of the hearing itself and blame her for the problems that exist politically in Somalia, but it was just so fucking absurd in child. An outrageous- and you know, he's now attacked at least four witnesses in the impeachment inquiry Bill Taylor, you VON of Itch out and then not by name and then he over the weekend he attacks MIKE Pence is current eight and the best that pathetic.
Sniveling Reagan, impersonator could do in response is state. She works at the State Department. Well, guess what buddy all NSC staff by and large. The bet, Mass majority of NASCAR to counsel staffers are details from other agencies, so she currently works for you yeah I mean there was You know Trump does this. During the hearing I mean this.
Ivanovic right, like the part of the hearing, is about how Trump on the phone call with the Lynskey called her bad news said that she's going to be going through some things and so shift as asking her how that felt, and she she answers. As you, I talked about love and saying, like you know, what is the ups member application? That's all we have. This is been a painful period. She talked about her friends, saying that the color actually went from her face when she read the transcript and then as that's happening, he he he sends that tweet and you know there's this whole debate. Is this witness intimidation? Should you know, Democrats add that to the impeachment case. I don't know if you know it. You've talked with us before time. You like, I don't know if we need to get into like a legal weeds about what's witness intimidation or, what's not like what we do know is. This is a case for trying to make to the public about impeachment in the case that we're trying to make to Republicans and if the president is attacking witnesses while they're
testifying or before, like in every single person who works for him. Who then says the truth. Is that only and never trump, who deserves to be attacked like when you added to the articles of impeachment a lot or not? It doesn't look too good. It would also they're trying to out the whistle blower right. His allies are his son tweeted, the name of an inch of visual. He thought to be a whistleblower Steve King tweeted, a picture of one of George Soros's kids, who has never worked in government, but that didn't stop him from like. So we also we have this pattern and we also saw fairly recently that crazy
I got a guy who was willing to send pipe bombs to a bunch of people he perceived as enemies. So I think we should be a little more careful with our words from where the president's day yeah. I think, there's a few other parts for testimony that were worth while in building the case against Trump. She testified that there wasn't a shred of legitimacy to the conspiracy theory that Ukraine meddled in in twenty sixteen, which she would know because she was the ambassador there and- and she also testified that Joe Biden was in fact fighting corruption when he got that prosecutor fired and carrying out the wishes of not only about administration, but the global community.
And, like George can't said, yeah there could be a potential conflict of interest with hundred being on the board, but but remember it because this kind of gets lost in a lot of the and a lot of the coverage. Donald Trump Guiliani didn't just want an investigation into a recent itself or to Hunter Biden himself. They want the investigation into Joe Biden, pushing for the firing of the prosecutor in the berries my case right and so and and every single person who's testified without fail has said Joe Biden did the absolute right thing in fighting that prosecutors. So the whole you know, we'd go. This whole thing was like there's no evidence. The Joe Biden did anything wrong. It's a no. It's not just no evidence job and did the right thing. He was fighting corruption when he did that. So I think that I thought that was pretty important. So
but since you've on of his testimony, there has been three additional Trump administration officials who testified in private Jennifer Williams. As you point of time, in a to MIKE Pence, was on the call with Trump insulin Ski and testified that it was quote inappropriate: TIM Morrison, a White House, national Security aide who testified that someone did not exaggerate, how closely work directly with. Donald Trump and David Holmes, an american diplomat in Ukraine who over heard a phone call where Trump asks on land. So President Solinski is going to do the investigation to which Sanlun said Mister President Zalenski loves your no, no, no loves you get a ride right. So lucky loves your as we know that loves your ass. He, your mister. He loves Europe. It was his resume, let your it was so funny what is a resident in and he loves your the CNN people got it wrong over and over the, and the emphasis was on. Ask the whole time, and I don't
That's what watching made Phil, Mattingly and CNN that, if the clip but of course, made John Oliver last night too, it's gone everywhere and it's just Mattingly reading it and it's almost like you read it for the first time you know, like the Lynskey loves, loves your anyway, it's like loves your ask dark times, smoothest Lynskey close your apps and would do anything. You ask him to homes also testified that someone told him, as we heard from Congressman Schiff, that Trump didn't quote, the it about Ukraine and cared only about the big stuff. Like the Biden Investigation Love, how does this phone between San Linden Trump strengthen the case for impeachment. Well, you know it's just it's making it stronger and- and we all know that, of course we knew that before actually got more evidence about what was happening in the call. I mean what I write. What I see happening now is, it's Republicans are trying to get to the truth through these hearings there to try to get out of them as they try to get out and with each passing hearing a door comes to
and blocks and exit right whistleblowers, a hardcore, partisan, Democrat, dork, it doesn't matter what the whistleblower says? We have the transcript and it's can corroborated by every other piece of evidence. You're, saying is hearsay door comes down actually and spoke to him directly and he's going to testify Rudy, Giuliani and song that are the masterminds behind all this door comes down. We have more evidence that Donald Trump is directing as an n. At each day, more and more of their exits are are blocked off, and I think that that has view now. The case is getting stronger, yes, but it's getting harder and harder for Republicans to find things to say out loud in these here yeah. How important time is someone as a witness right now, because it does seem like he's the he's, the one with that that will testify, that has the most direct connection to Trump and and communication. I think he is incredibly important like I don't have to be a good person to be a good witness, and that was kind of why initially, when everyone was singing the praises of some of the earth
witnesses that made me a little bit nervous like yes, it's very impressive to record record service, the country in military service and all these credentials, but like scumbags and rats and liars, can provide helpful information and that that might be accordance song. That is, but we also know like a record that this call happened exists because that's how phones work right, if you call someone has a record of it, also note that if you're a senior US official taking a call in in Kiev, the Russians are collecting the contents of that phone. All they ever Tory in new into is a senior official for the bombing Ministration State Department. She got her call collected recorded and released by the russian government back in the day. So just you know another thing these since operation security such a big deal in the twenty sixteen election, we should remember yeah. I heard some people say well, you know someone's credibility is in question. What kind of witness is he going to be and like if it was just Gordon Saman alone, giving recollections
refreshing. Those recollections getting himself out of perjury. That would be one thing just about every witness who's already testified has had direct contact with Gordon Sunlin and is they're all telling the same story. So I heard the call right so if you're saying that, like you, don't trust Gordon someone, that's fine, but two people heard the call, Morrison Morrison's shift, told us know it was with Warsaw, when he said of the aid, is condition on the investigations bill. Taylor have the text with him Volker had the type with them like it doesn't really we have enough other people, testifying that what is it it's like? the word of eight or nine witnesses, Underoath against Gordon Sunlin who's already had to revise his testimony. Yeah I mean it's just the sheer number of people that have to be lying in order for aid innocent version of these events, great true or extraordinary yeah. I mean the other piece of this too. Just. Gordon Sunlin was a Trump guy to trump there's a reason. He brings up asap rocky to Gordon
Gordon Island was just somebody he seems to like to have talked to that that the reports that Alan was actually in a kind of running conversation with Donald Trump is, born out right, there question as to whether or not sounds sound. How often, how often trump seems that's not the case no trump, only really like talking to a certain kind of person and chords on that is that kind of person, a rich white guy? Who knows how to hang? I mean I, really what's going on here, and so he would call him and talk to him about what was on someone's plate, but also it was on Trump's late and what we were learning is that is a big part of this conspiracy to the ukrainian government was unfolding. I think Gordon someone has some pretty important decisions to make this week. I don't know if he's already made them or not I mean he's already a revised his testimony once clearly he's going to need to either say I need to revise it again. I
spoke Iraq. I mean he. He lied. He already lied, so he's going to have to either revise it again or another option that I read he could do. Is he could plead the fifth which wouldn't get us very far or he could you know it in the face of all these other witnesses who testified to the contrary, keep lying, I suppose, but, like you know, we could be headed to a Michael Coen. Ask up public confession here on Wednesday. That sort of you know, with the whole case out right, it's worth worth, remembering that you know one of the eight natural defenses we've had a at the Trump Administration or the kind of people are that are willing to work with Trump or the kind of people that are willing to work with Trump and so yeah sure there are trump loyalist whatever that phrase means, but really that means is there loyal to their own interest, Gordon Sunlin for over a million dollars, it was the worst nine dollars adverse last hospital. It just got down the tubes. He's basically says it all the time you just got far more than he bargained
Gordon style and doesn't need anything from Donald Trump he's a wealthy man. He doesn't need a cynic here on Fox NEWS he's not in member of Congress. He can't be primaried. He just wants to get the fuck out of this go back to his hotel and go back to his hotels with portion of his dignity and reputation at least as well. So whatever you say he's at he's, trying to get out of this with whatever is left, go with God, Gordo and so to me. I see that and I think I see somebody who is going to not to to go down with the ship I do want to before we go on just stop and and talk a little bit about the story that you referenced. How many from CNN that broke Friday that really hasn't gotten much coverage because of all the other other that's happened over the weekend according to the of indicted, Giuliani, goon love, Parnis Donald Trump pulled Parnis, an Igor Frumin, his partner aside during the White House Hanukkah Party and gave them a seat
James bond mission from the President is how it was described. A secret mission, James Bond mission from the president to carry out, ukrainian bribery scheme involving fake investigations into Joe Biden? These are mobsters who've, just been indicted for campaign finance felony that are being pulled aside at the White House Hanukkah Party and told your my guys to go. Do this here's the craziest thing there is. Actually enough corruption to last one night, but actually corruption, managed to last eight nights and that's like? like miraculous, you know to yeah to that end, love it. The Washington Post reported in April two thousand and eighteen there was a small fund raising dinner at Trump's, hotel and parnis talked to Trump, then about Ivan Ivic. So, like there's a longer paper trail, just you know for and giggles the day before the Hanukkah Party Giuliani brought Parnis as his as his the funeral of former President
George W Bush. So everything about this, it is a hot ticket, he's lonely as a divorced man in it a plus one. I don't I'd, let's not indict him for being sad. I sort of think that the Democrats and they might be planning this we should at shift, but at I think you should call harness to testify, and then why willing to testify into to your point Tommy these? Don't they don't need to all be upstanding public servants because Partners was clearly in the middle of this plot. There's clearly ways to corroborate. Whatever testimony he offers and enough stories out there right that people who currently under indictment were carrying out plot, and also trying to you know Grifton on the side yeah. I think that's I, I think it would be very, very bad, for other Republicans have to interrogate those two
you know one thing we noticed in our polls. You know we we will look. We we get into the details of what's happening in these hearings in them. You know you look at the polling about how impeachment is faring. Obviously, impeachment is getting more and more kind of popular with people, but you dig into the numbers and you sort of wonder it seems like that part of what Trump did that sound, the Crimean Ste are the things that people think the worst thing to do. Right. You introduce words like tampering. Intimidation right words that in people's minds wait yeah! Those are things I associate with criminality. They tend to look the worse. I can't think of anything that would look worse for Donald Trump than these two fucking goons sitting in front of Congress. Talking about the hot Party and their secret mission? I mean it just it just it they might have. The inside of the Watergate with flashlights, it's a great story, so already a bad week for Trump we didn't yeah, we did
even the fourth impeachment in american history that we didn't? We didn't even really talk about Roger Stone being found guilty on seven counts for obstructing the molar investigation and lying specifically about Trump's connection to the democratic emails that Russia stolen two thousand and sixteen he could face up to fifty years in prison. So that's happening, but then, after all of that last week Saturday, the republican candidate, the Trump campaign for in the Louisiana Governor's race, a state where he won by twenty points in two thousand and sixteen lost to democratic incumbent, John Bel Edwards. By about two one slash two points: First of all, we should thank everyone who went on votes, Erica and volunteered in that race organized in that race. One of the big reasons that Edwards one was because of increased turn out, especially increased african american turnout in turn out in the suburbs around New Orleans and some of the other major cities. So that's great, and not only did the democratic,
or win again, but Democrats prevented Republicans from winning a super majority in the state legislature there, which means that Democrats will absolutely have a hand in drawing the maps in twenty twenty one which is part of our fuckjerry fund. We could pick up another seat there I mean, like I'm, no expert on either Kentucky or Louisiana politics, and I think we could have a longer conversation about the relative strength of the candidates involved in the aces, but we all do know that there is a narrative they're. Not you know please over all of this, and a lot of people in DC were were excited even if not eager to say that if all of these are
we can governor is one an impeachment was the reason why and it was a mistake to do so. They were floating this theory and then the exact opposite happened. So Trump does not look like a particularly strong president. Certainly can't will a candidate to victory like he used to argue. We could, and I will say we cannot repeat enough. The fact that Trump campaigned in both of these states tried to make the campaign about impeachment v candidates. He campaigned for in both states tried to make it about Trump and tried to make it about impeachment. These are deep red states that he won by thirty points in twenty points, and he couldn't do it, and you were just talking about that. Every time you like that narrative is so deeply ingrained, because reporters have always believed in picture was a bad idea and one of the reasons that reporters have believed it was a bad idea is because in ferness alot of the Democrats in Congress for a long time thought it
Bad idea to polling suggested it, so this will come back up because, if republicans decide to acquit Donald Trump, if they stick with him You know we're going to get a hold another round of stories. Is this going to be bad? For Democrats, we can't forget that we just had two elections in the middle of this in deep red states, and it just wasn't good. Yep also we should talk about the New ABC poll out this morning. Seventy percent of Americans now think Trump's request to a foreign leader to investigate his political rival was wrong. Fifty one percent say it merits impeachment and removal. Another six percent say it warrants impeachment, but not removal and only twenty five percent think Trump did nothing. Which I think are pretty good numbers. It is also worth noting that Paul that something like either twenty one or twenty five percent of people just really hadn't heard about it. Yet yeah, so that's a the goal of this impeachment is to make sure those people know what's happening because boy, it seem hard to believe that you could not have heard about present getting impeached, but, it went out world. Listen we so nice, I just they're not
into this. Not ask you anything, but my goodness to in a world where you just found out Donald Trump got impeached. I want to go there. I want to visit you and want to experience. It won't take a vacation to that life. Well, I mean to that point, so fifty eight percent in the poll say they're following the hearings very or somewhat closely, of the twenty one percent who are following impeachment hearings very closely. Sixty seven percent of that crowd think Trump should be impeached and removed Now you can say: is that causation or are you know those people more likely to watch the hearings, but the party break down in the people who are watching very closely is pretty even slightly more Democrats, but it's pretty even so. At the very least, what we can say is what the Republicans are doing during those who things is not working, it's not persuaded I to say I have made it a point to try to watch some fox news throughout these hearings because like it or not. I actually think it's incredibly important. You know the way Fox NEWS covers. This impeachment is probably
more important than the way CNN does and more important. The way MSNBC does because Fox NEWS is where they can protect themselves. The most and a lot of that coverage has been pretty straight, Brett Baer. Chris You know they had some very silly Chiron throughout the hearings, but they're playing the hearings and fold. Those hearing speak for themselves, some of their conversation middle, they are really at a loss for how to defend the president, few people trying to find ways to throw to what the Republicans are doing, but you know that to me is at least a sign that the impeachment has not only wrested the microphone from Donald Trump Impart rested it from the propaganda machine. That's not speaking, look what's happening between eight hundred and one thousand. One hundred Fox news continues to be well, it's going to say a true horror, but nonetheless, were there having trouble is when they do live coverage, sometimes it's so stark with
ending in those hearings that it's hard to do their bullshit and by night time, they've cleaned it up, and so I do think once the hearings are over bill, close ranks again and we'll get the usual Fox NEWS, but it's interesting that they're having a hard time when faced with this testimony, live saying anything but the truth that we some of them yeah few of them all right. Let's talk about two thousand and twenty. On Saturday night, the gold standard of Iowa polls from the DES Moines Register showed Meerpet budaj edge had gone from nine percent in September two hundred and twenty five percent now and has taken the first clear lead in the Iowa caucuses. According to that poll after PETE, it's a three way tie with Elizabeth Warren at sixteen percent in job. And Bernie Sanders at fifteen percent. Amy Klobuchar has six percent, and everyone else is at three percent or less also quite important. More than sixty percent of respondents in the poll said they'd be open to supporting someone besides their first choice. So, yes, the race is still quite fluid, but
man that is a a a pretty incredible pull from your p at Tom you've, been on the ground in Iowa. What do you attribute mayor, PETE's rise to so a few things I mean. I think that he's been he made he raised ton of money early and he's been on tv advertising, an making a case for himself. I think that is that is been important. I think had a big team there and they've been organizing. I thought he had a good Jj speech. And that helped set an air Then. I also think that His rise seems to coincide with a dip for was with one, and you know I do think. Look this a great Paul for Mayor PETE. I think it looks particularly great for him because he's way up since the last register poll, which is in September, but I think, you've seen some of the strength in other polls. The Monmouth poll recently showed him doing very well. The most important point, though, is the one you
stated afterwards, which is only thirty percent of these people have made up their mind yeah. This thing is so fluid and the it seems like it will be massive, so figuring out. Who is actually gonna turn out, as can be incredibly difficult? Love. Would you thank obviously it's. You know it was surprising. I think that I was not surprised to see PETE rising. I was surprised to see by how much he's rising. You know. We talked about this when Elizabeth Warren was kind of having a trajectory that look like this, and we want to things we noted is that you know she actually had a pretty smooth few months with with very few, if anyone taking any shots at her, I think PETE's been in a similar place actually recently, I, as as Elizabeth Warren, has drawn some fire and, as Biden has drawn some fire and and Kamel and a few others actually Johnson heat as well. You know now
now, I think I think, what's been happening, is when candidates suddenly pop up to the front of the pack in Iowa in polling. They go from being covered in standard definition to being covered in all traits d with hdr, and I think that will present some challenges for PETE. I think I'll, see you at the debate on Wednesday coming coming in Iowa front runner will have some costs because I I would expect debaters to take some shots he's. Actually, I think who case you're not being in this debate. I think. Actually, that is a very fortunate thing for PETE, because I could have seen who Lian Castro taking a pretty good swing. It may repeat, I also do think now. The question will look
how to make this point all the time. If you want to win, they want to win, they want to win, they want to win and now that he has his real chance of winning Iowa. It looks like it's a real possibility. The question about his support from a huge portion of the democratic coalition people of color will start to become not just a moral question, but a political one. I will say to start that, but you know evidence is mixed on whether voters make up their minds based on ideology or how much voters think about ideology. We. We know that for sure and the conversation about lanes in the primary can sometimes be like a little over simplified, but with all that said, they did ask in this poll is the candidate. Do you think the
candidates views are too liberal. Just about right or too conservative judge fares, the best of the four candidates in the lead, with sixty three percent saying he's about right, and only thirteen percent calling to conservative and seven percent saying he's too liberal, and so he is but he's much better than all the other candidates on that he clearly you know we talked about this during the after the last debate. He's made this move to sort of capture so that that moderate vote- and you know I have to say- like I Didn'T- I was skeptical- whether it would work not because I didn't think there were a ton of moderate voters, but because I thought it would look too transparent. At least it seems like that in the debate I that is all the
Speech was like. I was much happier to see that then I've been him at the debate, so I think he was better there, but clearly it's working because he lead. He leads now because he's at thirty percent among moderates and conservatives- that's now his best ideological group, and it was his worst in June. So clearly, that's actually that's worked for him. It's interesting, like Duvall, has said now that he's gay in this race in part, because he sees an opening between the the moderates and the left of the party, which is, I think, which just means he thinks Biden isn't up to this anything's Warren and Sanders are too far to the left. Fine, but it looks like several We have had this idea and peeping the leading one of them yeah I mean, I think that almost every issue debate we've had should be viewed as a proxy for electability right, because no one knows what that means, but everyone just sixty three percent of the people in the Register poll said there are more sign electability than issues. That said, at the same time, I
leave the CBS Cbs News had a tracking poll of early states that came out over this weekend too yeah in that poll, you saw the support among released a crafts for Medicare for all down seven percentage points and I suspect that that has a big piece of that is a discussion about whether it's realistic or whether you could get elected supporting that position yeah. Well, let's talk more about I'm Elizabeth Warren. Who was the front runner in the last poll in this poll and we're just talking about the statistic for PETE the share of Democrats to describe her as too liberal has risen from twenty three percent in March to thirty eight percent today. One possible reason for that is you mention time, has been her support for Bernie Sanders Medicare for all legislation,
which has been under attack from almost all of the other candidates aside from Bernie, but now Warren has released her own plan in her first hundred days. She said she would pass a bill through the budget reconciliation process, which is key, because that only requires fifty one votes in the Senate and not getting rid of the filibuster. She would pass a bill through that process to create a very generous Medicare public option. They would be open to everyone and free for children and people with lower incomes and then later during her third year in office, she would try to pass Bernie's full Medicare for all bill that would fully transition away from private insurance love. It would you think, about this plan. Is interesting it's. It's interesting watching her try to thread the needle between not wanting to abandon her support for Medicare for all, but and but similar to common Harris and others, reflecting on the I think that there are real political challenges in terms of actually passing Medicare for all and clearly they are worried.
The attacks on Medicare for all as being too radical or hurting and in some of the battleground like it's just so clearly an effort to kind of bridge the gap between what he has been saying about Medicare for all who want it and the fact that the polling bears out the fact that Medicare Medicare public option polls better than Medicare for all and the fact that from MM point of view and from a political point of view she does not want to lose the bona fides that come with being a champion of single air. What do you think about me? I mean it seems like I think she wants to talk about other things like we've been stuck in this cul de sac for a long time and look at the very important cul de sac, I mean to diminish in any way, but I think you know you hurt her message is less distinct from Bernie on this issue than in the lot of other places, and I think she just wanted to get through it and get to their yeah. I mean
it's great. I was so excited by the plan and my only complaint was. I wish she had done it earlier, and you know the New York Times as a great tech talk of this and she had been working on this for a long time so even before a lot of the Medicare for all attacks really picked up. She had been working on this for a while, and I think it's it reminded me of where we talk about this. You know the interview she did with you. Tommy here on pod, save America way back when, when she said yeah I'm for Medicare for all, but there's a lot of different pathways to get there, and I think she I mean she is way more pragmatic when it comes to legislating an governing van. I think her critics, or even most people, would imagine- and that's her record in the Senate- bears that out and I think she is known for a long time. She she how hard it's going to be to pass Bernie's Medicare for all bill. Like you got all these democratic senators, saying we're not going to get rid of the filibuster, and even if you do, there's a bunch
no way will I pass that you know one of the problems for Medicare for all supporters that the people who, like Bernie's bill as they started this whole effort by talking about the polling and how popular Medicare for all is in the polls. But then, when the pull start asking about private insurance and do you like a public option better and everyone said yeah we'd much rather have a public option, not just the general electorate, but it's like a split among Democrats and I'll, probably slightly more one, a public option, the Medicare for all. If you you know, live by the polls die by the polls and so the problem for them, the p Bernie Sanders legislation. Supporters is you have this other,
This legislation that is more popular, more easily passed and, most importantly in the short term, would cover every single american right. And yes, yes, now what it wouldn't do, is you still have some waste and inefficiency from having private insurance? You know they would still be able to pull some of their bullshit, but every single person in the country would have guaranteed care if they wanted it. Yeah it's it's just interesting that it was no. It wasn't necessary that, like every single democratic debate would end up in a debate about public option versus Medicare for all that would become such a central focus of the debate. And you know I think it's just a. It was a reality of just how these debates unfolded. How some of these questions unfolded that that the order of operations was she was for the Bernie plan? Then she faced a lot of really hard questions that you seem to not want to answer about paying for it.
Then she provided an answer on paying for it, and then she provided this final piece of the plan that that sequencing. I don't claim to not I'm not suggesting there's some better way it could have unfolded, but, like I do think that that sequencing got got her kind of stuck in a conversation that I think hopefully now even more importantly than just having that had been the plan itself. It politically is that now she can to Thomas Point, make that part of her speech, but not the focus of every about the focus of the question, the folk
yeah and look the the the lazy way of talking about Elizabeth Warren as too liberal is to say that all the stuff she's proposing- and you know her economic populism is too far left for most people and that's just not true. The only policy that she's proposing that's on popular it in some degree is Bernie's Medicare for all piece of legislation. The wealth tax again is incredibly popular according to every poll, among not just Democrats and independents, but Republicans do it's also. I I I I find some of the you know you sort of a what it did to the donor. Revolt and the wealthier public speaking against those of are to be so frustrating because there's this idea that if she's too radical and remind me actually a lot of what was said Obama, who was mildly, critical of Wall Street mildly, critical of the
the but yeah. He said the word fat cats once and it was the end of the world right and and and so there is the but there's this narrative to call that somehow he was sort of so vicious toward them, and then you would try to find any evidence of it in the record. You could- and I think it's actually true for warranty as well. It is true that Policies are much more antagonistic as well, but she does have that billionaire tears mug, but she is running ads only on cnbc- and I was doing I would say I would say a little. This one is a little further. It's pointless, yeah she's embraced the fight, but the fight came long before she started selling billionaire mugs. The point I'm making is only don't you if you we expect presidents to lead and one of the ways you lead is by staking out a position that maybe goes beyond. What's symbol in Congress and then the negotiation ends up at up in a good place, because you had a president who's going to push harder and go further. All of these you know
a nervous democrats about like actually seem to be done. I have it this idea in their head. That should be a radical president. Like don't you trust the limits of the system Michael, this is how it works. You want a president who's going to be Paul, that's the idea, but it, but it's more about. You know this question of electability and I know it drives everyone crazy and it should- and we should be thinking about it and I it is complete. Hard to judge. We don't know what the Fark we're talking about, but when you talk to voters, especially voters in Iowa right, they are, they are terrified of losing to Donald Trump, as we all should be and so what Elizabeth Warren is going to have to do now, and her campaign has known this for a while. This is that bit. The electability thing is a challenge is make some uh.
Meant, as pizza out there on the rise and binds sort of hanging tough and a lot of these other states. Why Elizabeth Warren is the best person to go against Donald Trump and went and there's an argument to make their, but she She's gonna have to make you know: yeah, that's it. I know. One thing that I also take away from PETE leading in this poll is less obvious, is less about Warren and more about what it says about bite in in that Biden is the avatar for those arguments against Elizabeth Warren, but I people in Iowa, who are paying attention who are seeing these campaigns, who are who are uh are experiencing. This race first hand are looking at Joe Biden versus mayor. A of South Bend, Indiana and saying he's the electable one and it there's electability conversation is so scrambled by the fact that the national poll Joe Biden has lost so much ground on one of the key questions in the right yeah
I would say if I was Joe I'm looking at that Iowa Poll, the measure of comfort I would take and specially looking at that CBS Battleground set of pull trackers is heat Budaj wins Iowa, but is still sitting there with you know little to no support among black voters and now Elizabeth Warren hasn't won? Iowa and Joe Biden is still leading with black voters by huge margins in. Just like South Carolina in North Carolina, which he is 'cause. We just saw polls there over the last couple of weeks and we go into Super Tuesday. And now he doesn't have Elizabeth Warren as a threat, and now people are judge isn't doing well with voters of color either Joe Biden could run the tables. I mean the CBS poll the way they framed. It is a distinction of safe versus risky and even the people who don't support Biden, think he's safer choice, so it does make you wonder if there's some room for people to come home to Biden and now
Make me nervous if I were all the other campaigns, knowing that this electability discussion and like yes, it's fraught it's confused but like I also don't blame people for only caring about finding someone who can win, because God that's where my brain still right down. We can all scream about the unfairness of how people judge electability, and we should- and we have and we will yeah, but for me for most people out there who were not paying as close attention as as we are to the race and you might not tune in until there's an actual winner in one of these primaries. That's what they're thinking about and- and you can't blame them for thinking. Now I we got an I want. I want someone who can win you yet it some point. We can't get mad at voters for thinking the way they think in the way you prove you're electable is by winning and there's a lot of embedded racism and sexism, and you know all kinds of problems within how people make those judgments, but ultimately job is a candidate is to just get as many votes as him. Possible and you prove to the world that you are like well in.
And you make an electability case right. I mean Elizabeth Warren kind of started doing this at the at the LJ dinner. When she started talking about the consumer Financial Protection Bureau right, she can turn to pee and say I have experience that you don't have a peek and make electability arguments by and well. I think you'll see a lot of these candidates in this weeks. Debate. Try to make some kind of electability argument based on their own credentials, repeats Iowa LJ speech was a huge portion of it was an electability speech. It was here's the contrast between me and Trump? Here's how I knocked down every kind of criticism that he could level, because you know I served he didn't and went over some independence, I'm from the midwest he's from a tower and whatever whatever it will be. He sort of is, I think you know, speaks to the his just a compliment PETE to like his mark. Him really smart and he's been thinking about this in a really sophisticated way and it's been
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long time ago in Washington. So I want to get to your fantastic book in a minute, but first to talk about some of the news over the last few days. We're recording this on fry, say this morning, Donald Trump attacked former Ambassador Marie Ivan Ivic during the hearing where she testified about being threatened by Donald Trump. What was your reaction to that? And, in general, just some of the Trump officials who have testified over the last last week, yeah. Well, it's clear that this president committed a crime and it's it's something. Nixon ever did, I'm bribing a artificial to ask for help for his own election, and so I think that he's polo sees comments were just excellent that he thinks he's. He said above his head and just lashes out everybody. I don't I don't. I don't think I've ever met a human being that consistently criticizes publicly the people who work in his operation, people that he hired and it's it this
tax that from two days earlier, when he didn't he said he didn't even listen or watch too tweeting in the sizing her and pulling her and, in the end, all but he's a bully in all bullies are cowards, and that shows every day with this present. Do you think that if this does get to the center of the House votes to impeach, Could you see any of your more moderate or independent minded republican colleagues actually voting to convict. I couldn't today with possible exception of, me nobody, nobody is there, but I I know what I hear and I hear senators at least some republican senators say things like they know he lies. They know he's in over his head some noise summer, willing to say privately he's a racist, but to love their tax cuts and they love their attacks on environmental and environmental environmental issues and and workers that
Trump does and they love his young judges on the Supreme Court in and for that, the whole court system. He also they're scared of his base and the scared, but they help to make that base so solid 'cause. If, if you're a voter in Ohio or Michigan, Florida and anywhere else, you watched watch fox. You may listen to rush Limbaugh and then your whole that all the Republicans who you vote for none of them criticize him you're going to think he does no wrong, and so That's why they're so scared of the base 'cause they helped to create that bass. What about some of the senators who are up in the more moderate mean Nora, I think, there's plenty more. I mean you look at Arizona, Colorado, Maine, increasingly Iowa, increasingly North Carolina, maybe Georgia, maybe Kentucky but a whole different uh mean you saw in an and your in laws neighborhood just across the river is red tacky that that may have been the reason that the Democrats won because suburban women and arms in sub. So
verbs of Cincinnati, but in Kentucky really change the that race. But I think that I think I'm scared, I think, they're sweating. I think that, if war, things come out in the public turns even more strongly against against Trump. If that number goes well over fifth I mean there's thirty, five or forty that are not going to move, but that's still a lot that could in that hat In some they start they start getting scared and there is a chance of it's hard to think they're being to get over the hurdles. Removal, but that's assuming every Democrat, and I we've not really talked about that in most of us are both, I think we're we believe in our country and our constitution enough to not to say and really not even to decide what we're going to do if it gets to that, because but I'm not a lawyer, but I understand and indict I Each one is an indictment in a court of law in the Senate, one hundred members in the Senate or the one hundred jurors '
and we should listen to the evidence and make the decision based on the evidence and um, I'm certain. If I mean I'm not 'cause. I don't know what Trump will say. I don't know what the answer is. What Trump's will say and what his answers to all this is bar. But if, if it he is done. The way it should as a jury. We will we will do the right thing, will convict him and remove him if he deserves it and we will not if he does so needs a closing out this week. That a deal is imminent. On the: U S: Mexico, Canada, a trade agreement you've been long critical of free trade agreements and have spoken specifically about issues with past versions of this agreement. What do you need to see, in sort of a final deal for you to sort the wheat and, fundamentally you judge a trade agreement by does this lift standards, worker environmental standards? To the point that that we don't see, we get the trade agreement doesn't continue to send jobs overseas and disagreements, not not very close
yet to that the language that Speaker Pelosi is trying to get in the agreement. The language I'm trying to get in the agreement with Rosa Delauro Delaura, the sort of the house member, that's doing the most here. The brown widen labor enforcement language and that that will through the issue of stopping the outsourcing. I mean Gm Gm closes down in Youngstown the Lordstown plant, three Yes, one thousand five hundred three times in a row, they laid shift off several Slater. Second, the second the day, the way the second shift off they announce their moving jobs to Mexico, so there still doing that trumps done nothing to stop that, and so it's pretty clear A renegotiating NAFTA has to have that in it or it doesn't go. Is there any concern among Democrats that you know of Trump gets a win on a on a trade deal that he runs around twenty twenty talking about how it's got this big win on trade and he's either going to do that or he's going to say. I was making NAFTA a lot better and Democrats didn't do any
so we either way he's going to say that he's not going to tell the truth. 'cause he's not he's not at all fought for the provisions for workers. Of course he hasn't. I mean the White House looks like a retreat for Wall Street executives and it's never. He's. Never looked at me. The fundamentally the reason we're going to win in two thousand and twenty is that Democrats are the Party of Workers, the party of dignity of work in Trump's, betrayed workers, and you can just go down the line, whether it's people with pre existing condition, weather minimum wage, whether it's the overtime rule, whether it's straight yeah, so you've been a long term advocate for Medicare for all, but you've called Bernie Sanders version, a terrible mistake for a democratic nominee to support in the general. I don't know if you saw Elizabeth Warren today sort of released a plan where she basically splits it up into two different parts and she would pass legislation that would basically create a sort of robust public option and open up meta care to more people in the first hundred days and then, basically in her third year, she would try to complete the transition
for private insurance. What do you think about her plans? That better is that more palatable, initially traded phone calls with her today about that, because we've I've been talking to her about the whole issue. Like you know it look at it this way, every everybody on that stage over many there are on the stage in the next debate. Changed everybody everything everybody in that stages for universal coverage. That's what Democrats are for in it. Either they ever everybody. Each has a different path. Each has a different speed at which to accomplish it, but The important thing is everybody's for universal coverage in our side in Trump's, trying to take it I mean first, he failed in the Senate by one vote to repeal affordable care ACT, Obama and now he's in the northern district of Northern District of Texas Courts to try to overturn it in the the fight needs to be that the fight I mean there's, differences among Democrats. I understand that, but we need to make this
contrast and all me again, if you for me saying I know you you understand, think about this, so that it's society on and trump clearly on, healthcare is on on on on the side of most people. So, I I will talk less about any individual plans or programs a night. That's what I think our candidate should do and make contrast that where where we are and where Trump is- and you know, it's in Ohio two Ohioans don't have two million Ohioans ever out of twelve million population of a pre existing condition. Shop, overturns the ACA. This court does that all two million of them are at some risk of losing their health insurance yeah, and that's that's a much better way to talk about it then do Medicare volunteer at fifty five and negotiate drug prices and take away the tax subsidies for for companies that advertise drugs on on television. All of that, all of that is the the direction to go in. That's a sharp contrast, because Trump's on the wrong side of everyone of the
do you think that we've spent a little too much time debating the finer points of all these plans on the debate stage? Of course, we are in the public which listening and an Repub let's figure out how to write ads from them. You say when you're running a primer, you've got to differentiate yourself and you don't stay on the on the plat for sale. We all agree on this because they don't fund they don't he won a lot of details. I know they're they're they're fairly significant differences, but but nothing compared to to to trump to that that difference, and I I think, a candidate that starts going to that stage in in sort of talking that we will be really appealing to Democrats. Don't they attack trump, but checking Trump on character doesn't seem to to break into his forty five percent yeah support, but showing workers in Zanesville in Mansfield in Lima and Cincinnati Ohio that the Trump has abandoned them on on jobs, on wages on health care benefits is will will begin to peel off and
for those to win Ohio. So let's talk about desk. Eighty eight, it is. It is not the live like I might run for president. So I need to write a book kind of book. It's something
I've been working on for quite awhile. So what what made you want to write the book and tell us a little bit about it is or what the process was right. It's it's it's it's mostly about hope in the sense that I took I'd I'd for my first. My first was when, when senators were looking at the freshman service or looking where they were gonna said on the Senate floor hi there there are no bad seats, not sit behind a post right. So I I started pulling out does stores cause us some, a senior center told me sunder, scratcher name, their desk drawers and by the fourth desk. I I looked at and had said Mcgovern South Dakota Gore Tennessee Hugo Black Alabama, and then it just said one word Kennedy, so TED was said: TED Kennedy. This was two thousand seven stand here by acid per second, I looked, I showed I said which brothers desk is. Is he said what has to be Bobby's, because I am Jack's, so I just started thinking about who these senators are in, what contribution they made and that's fundamentally, it's a book about the power of government to make people's lives.
Better and you know progressives, don't we don't win often, but when we when we, when really big, you know, we win big, can look at history Medicare. I'm forty hour work week: civil rights, voting rights, safe drinking water laws, clean air laws, protections for the Sable, Pell grants Kate, I mean just one: we when really big We may lose two or four years later, but public benefits from these kinds of reform for years and that's this canary pen, I, where is all about that it was given me an award Memorial Day rally twenty years ago, it's a picture of a canary that the mine workers took down in a cage down in the mines days, never union strong enough for government to care enough to protect them. In this symbolizes me the power of government to make positive change, and it really is based on government responding just to good to social movements in creating progressive errors like we had with Roosevelt, we had in the
decent in very possibly we have in twenty twenty in the years beyond that. If the selection turns out the way that it really could of all the eight senators and all the stories that you researched. What surprised you the most did you learn anything that was particularly yeah- I didn't know, I think once maybe to me. The most was the unevenness of all of them, and what what I I'm maybe like the most was three three of them, two of them especially didn't start where's all that. Well, Hugo Black was a KKK member he said eat. I belong to any group that got me votes. Thirty later after he was put on the he was browse. Once favorite labor senator RE wrote eight hour. Wait our work. Forty hour work week. He wrote some with Wagner some the collective bargaining laws. Thirty years later, when he was on the court, he he was burned in effigy it. His law school in Tuscaloosa
because of Brown V Board of Education because he helped me real the right way. Yeah. They were any real, the right way as they can identity Kennedy started off. You know with working from a car c, then he tapped Martin Luther King's phone in sick early sixties when his attorney general, but look at the Bobby Kennedy that whole lot of us love the last three or four years. This life- that's that's the most
as and kind of surprise, you read about how history has always been a battle between the innovators. I am the concentrators, the latter being those with wealth and privilege to consolidate power by exploiting people's fear. The changes to risky it seems like today, a big part of that strategy is exploiting people's fear of a changing, diversifying America. How do progressives overcome that? That's a that's a really good observation! Yeah! I mean that that M Amerson said histories, that fight conservatives and progressives and the conservatives there are they all the birth date they have. They have most of the media, they have the lobbyists, they have money they have in in they wanna hold fundamentally one holder their power and for
legend wealth and status progressives want to push forward, and it's it's so difficult because of the way that they're always fewer conservators conservatives, because they they they they're they're they're the wealthy interest groups and all their fewer of them, but they create fear of change, and you had it exactly right. I mean it was my car seat. Was communism in the 50S it was, it was integration and maybe in the 60s and 70s and 80s, and it was terrorism in the in the in the last twenty years and it's it's always been. Immigration there's always been that strain of people, and I just think it's would you you just have to out organized. I mean you. I think that you know you look at you you're, just how do you sort of us wages, fears, look at your generation versus mind, look at people younger than when they're in their twenties and how you, how so many of them have lived in a much more diverse world than people growing up when I did in in in your parents or in that
That gives me a lot of hope that that, when you're exposed to people of all races and religions, I mean I I don't think I was thinking of talking. I talk with. I don't think I knew a muslim kid when I went through went through twelve years of public schools, certainly in grade school and I'm not so not end up being exposed to people that are that are different from you really gives just makes you a better person to make should make you much less fearful of change. The book is all about. You know. Different progressive era is in american politics. How much do you think the next great progressive era might be held back by the Senate itself and partly because of geographic polarization in the way the red states are like you know, I try to count all the time I I I can barely count. You know getting fifty one, fifty
democratic votes with some of them being moderates like let alone getting five thousand one hundred and fifty one vote progressive majority in the do like how much do you worry about some of the of the this, the the Senate? Has a conservative bias to us just like the electoral college does just like the court system does, which again makes it harder on these progressive errors? I think that three years ago I went to said this may, because I hadn't finished the book, maybe because I've seen Mcconnell for three more right, that I think we eliminate filibuster. I think that the this we we can not. The filibuster is such an enemy of it's. It's such a such a conservative, izing influence on our body politic, and it's just hard. You know it's so hard to do a constitutional amendment, because you need thirty, seven states, it's so hard. After all,. Most every election. I really need to look at these numbers, but can
so even years, inartistically good democratic years, more votes are cast for the democratic candidates for the Senate in the aggregate than Republicans they look at this state. Look at New York liquor Texas is now getting closer and closer, and so we just do better it. We we get more votes, but we don't have enough senator. So if we get to fifty one, I think there's going to be a a real movement to eliminate the filibuster and begin to move on progressive issues on climate on dignity of work on. I was in Laconia New Hampshire. When I was thinking about the presidential race and Connie, I met a woman who was a on child in childcare for working for forty years, and she said child care should be a public good and that term just so much comes with that yeah. If we start thinking that way, we start thinking like the rest of the developed world, the rich world that that for for for mothers and fathers after babies for vacation time for all the things that for sick days, all that smart, the book is desk. Eighty eight eight progressive senators which
just America, it is fantastic! I've read it. I really love it, and not only that, but John John actually did a blurb for yeah blur there, which is pretty well read it and blamed it shared. Thank you. So much for coming out, POD save America as always appreciate it good. It was fun. Thank you. Thanks to Adam Schiff and Sherry Brown for joining us today, and will see you every minute of every day. All week news. Never stops news he's, never stops. I guess hot America's, a product of crooked media. The senior producer is Michael Martinez, our system for Jordan Waller. It's mixed in did it by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle said: when is our sound engineer thanks to Carol in Tonya Seminatore in Katy long for production support into our digital team alive? cone, normal Coniine yell freed in my lil' Kim, who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-20.