President Trump betrays America by siding with Vladimir Putin over the United States, a few days after our government indicted 19 Russian military operatives for sabotaging the 2016 election in order to help Trump win. Then journalist Marcy Wheeler joins Jon, Jon, and Tommy to talk about the next steps in the Mueller investigation, as well as her decision to go to the FBI and become a witness.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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welcome to pod, save America, I'm Jon, Favreau and Jon Lovett.
Today's pod we're going to talk to independent journalist, Marcy Wheeler, but President
meeting with Putin and about the
indictment in the molar investigation, which includes the most detailed accusations we've seen so far about Russia's interference in the twenty. Sixteen election lots to talk about today, guys, but first some promotions-
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cricket media. What's that one okay, Segway Tommy! On Friday,
prosecutors indicted a dozen russian military operatives for sabotaging or twenty,
sixteen election by hacking and stealing emails, analytics and other sensitive information from the Democratic Party in the Clinton campaign. Today, at a press conference with Vladimir Putin
and Trump sided with the russian president. Over America's own law enforcement and intelligence agencies saying this quote, my people came to Maine Director of national intelligence. Dan coats came to me and they said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I'll say this. I don't see any reason why it would be God.
I know we deal with truly awful dishonest unhinged trump,
I meant every hour of every day, but today really does feel different to me. There are few moments of the Trump presidency that I think will truly stand out in history is the most disgraceful muslim band, Charlottesville family separations, and now I would include
the Putin Press conference in Helsinki in front of the entire world. Basically, the president added states betrayed his own country to defend one that sabotaged our own elections.
I want to get your reactions to this up a first. We have a special guest in studio. He tried to get a few questions out at the press conference in Helsinki, but he flew back and he's here with us today.
Joining us on. The pod is Joe America, hello. It is me, Joe America. I've just returned from Helsinki. I have to say I feel as though you were watching different press conference than me. I saw
Man lead from behind. I was there, obviously, as chorus
then, for an hour, a tv are hired by a lovely woman who own furniture store, but also involved in politics. Deeply strange are anyway. I thought Trump did very good. Very
is leading from behind very far behind feel like you, people have lost your mind site. He was, it was very cool event, very cool,
I wasn't put somebody's gonna hall of mirrors
because it is out on the nose, as you people say. As I say, American I anyway, I am not a very good Pro America and our eight times, USA, for it of a have a thank you
America, we just thought we had to live in this a little bit. It was. It was a tough Dave, bad Dave NEWS, and so thank you to Joe America Tommy. What did you? What were your reactions watching this much
Well, I just want to agree with everything Joe said, but then it today did feel today felt different. It was. It was well first of all, it was fucking disgraceful. I mean to watch were used to
complaining about the missing server,
and complaining about Clinton, and you know the old
rallies are on twitter, but like to see him do that at a joint press conference with a foreign head of state with just it.
And how crazy and pathetic it actually is. You didn't offer
or even a mild rebuke of Putin, not a single harsh word. He.
and see stroke a pack
can channel tell like he was all over the map and not a single word about election interference.
Things they're doing in Syria. Are you,
you try to use the same rhetoric use on North Korea to spin,
self out of criticism, saying oh we've should have had this dialogue along time ago before I got the office or missing the fact that the US talk to Russia all the time. In fact, you guys used to attack.
Obama over the Russia reset all the time. So it did feel like
reaction was different too. We spent a couple hours the office just watching Fox NEWS and they actually were pretty hard on Trump. A lot of Republicans were hard in Trump's. I think we we learn something
You can get criticized from the right if you coddle Putin both sides.
Wait between literal Nazis and klansmen,
if you show any compassion towards immigrants by proposing a dhaka fix those are the things, will get you attacked by the right in this country love. It
Did you wanna reaction and and the John Love invoice? Yes, sir, that I think that be better the it was fast
going to watch in some ways, because this is not it's both surprising and not surprising. It is not surprising that Donald Trump stands next to Putin
and says exactly what he's been saying all along right? This is the exact tenor he's taken the deeply strange and hard to explain tenor. That Trump is taken towards this one country, no problem standing next to Merkel in criticizing her no problem going after the UK, an interview but stands next to Putin, and he can't find can't find the words to be critical at all. He just
thanks and yet it is still surprising and one thing that I thought was really fascinating today and watching the reaction is something flipped. I have never seen so many reporters politicians, including Chris Wallace of
Fox and and all the way to NPR openly talking about
Not Bladimir Putin has damaging information about Donald Trump. I mean this is an extraordinary thing. We're so used to it now, because we've been hearing about Comp Ramat for such a long time, but that were openly discussing it. That to me feels like the ship,
And we were talking about this before we started about what Adam Davidson said about us reaching the end game, and this does feel like there's like we're getting close to the truth.
I don't know if we're getting any closer to the truth, although I think we're getting a lot closer to it being a completely ok thing to say for every wanna call bullshit and say I'm just grateful. That was, I mean they cut back from the press conference
Cooper, Anderson, Cooper's, like that was most disgraceful thing. I've ever seen from a present on foreign soil and then
have Chuck Schumer doing a press conference today where he said, I'm left to believe that they they have compromising information on President Trump, I mean things that I think we're seeing is free.
In Jordan. We things we kind of joked about about the ptr tape are now mainstream and,
real. I think
One thing that kept coming to
how about the setting was like they're in
think either in Finland, they share a border with Russia. They had to build.
Military in recent years, because there's a real, credible threat from the russian
call Terry right on their border in Trump,
listen to this meeting by selling a NATO and the EU and then he's coddling Putin. In this event, in Helsinki I mean it is terror
sign. These are like very real stakes for the people living out
for the entire world
and our country looks like a joke
Megyn Chuck Schumer? I wanna get to his question from his press conference, which I think for sums it up, which is what could possibly because President Trump to put the interests of Russia over those of the United States. I think that's absurd. The big question hanging over all this, but before we get there tell me, I want to take a step back, a US of
Jules directly involved with the Helsinki summit, told CNN. This was not the plan. So what a moment Kim was in the plan, why did they make that red treason but depressed at the event? You can see the trees and going ahead with with couldn't jump on it. So my question was: what was the plan? Why have this meeting in the first place? What could the Trump Administration possibly think the United States would gain from this Putin wanted this meeting right? The easiest thing for Trump and the Trump Administration to do would have just been to set
no thanks. We're all good on the meeting. This could become very awkward. Trump could say something great: why? What were they hoping to achieve? With this meeting? That's easy,
not fly to Helsinki than to fly, that's what we have you on the show. I can honestly, I think no one ever goes the Helsinki by accident yeah, it's c
seems like the only reason they had this summer,
was 'cause a whole bunch of people told Trump not to have the summit. You right was just
bent on doing it, and if you
Take him at his word. He thinks that, if used buddies with
he can turn to him at dinner and say why don't you knock it off in Syria or why don't you help us out with N Korea, but that's just not how
Putin works on how the world works so
will consider. There was no preparation, his own team, didn't
to go into this thing. With Marshall Plan they weren't allowed in half of the fuckin' meeting, I mean there's those
to trust strangers that, by the way, very strange, like I think, Obama
probably had one on one meetings with like Bb Netanyahu or David Cameron, with no no take really understaffed yeah, like really really close allies. The idea of going into a meeting with Vladimir Putin, with just a translator is,
very odd mean
maybe on the edges of a summit you
pull aside, maybe there's something that is really delicate, that you only want to say in the smallest possible setting or like you, don't trust.
Play. Why rob the Foreign minister, if you're talking at midday, dad when he was in power but
This is a weird. This is
Trump up for failure, because Trump is stupid and Putin is pretty craft. So so now, for the the big question, is there
Is there any explanation for Trump's love of Putin and refusal to take Russia's election sabotage seriously other than the obvious one? What is now the obvious one, which is that Russia has something on Donald Trump and we should go through what something could be because you know everyone's like ha ha the pee tape. We joke about the pee tape all the time, but there's other things that he could have over him. There is. There could be a financial reason right. We've talked about
You know uh and Don Junior Idiot Dungeoneer said this before, like a huge cross section of our assets or from Russia, we know that you know Trump bought a whole bunch of prop.
Is in cash. There could be money laundering, so there could be that. That is that that's the financial reasons there's also the very simple one that if Trump did accept rushes help in the election. If there was collusion, then Russia has that over trunk right, but so what? What are the? What possible explanations? Could there be for this that don't involve having something entre? Having leverage
Donald Trump so there's one! There is one- and this is where you have this overlap of the fact that the Trump characters like over written right, because it would be enough for him to be a a tv host with like a personality disorder, and it would be enough for him to be a compromised far agent criminal, but it's both at all times, and there is absolutely truth to the idea that if Donald Trump or two admits that the Russians interfere with the election to help
when it would be admitting that in some way his election as illegitimate and is absolute truth he's not as great as he thinks not as great as he think he is. His ego can take at it's too embarrassing. He would he would he just can't be can't bring himself to concede that, and so no information can confirm that to him. I think that that is a reasonable part, not all of it. That's a reasonable part of of his behavior. I don't think it's enough to explain this lavished sluggish lavish sluggish slavish devotion to Vladimir Putin. The refusal to criticize him on any front right, because the the the reason that that explanation is not enough is because the
Trump is not just solicitous of Putin on the issue of russian Interference, he's also solicitous of Putin on the issue of Ukraine and Crimea and NATO, NATO, an Europe and all the rest and elevating Putin and being so kind to put in. So I don't believe that just the narcissistic explanation isn't it and I think the biggest reason or the narcissistic explanation is not sufficient- is that Donald Trump sprays of Ladimir Putin did not begin after the election once it was revealed that Russia interfered in the election all through the twenty. Sixteen
pain. He praised Vladimir Putin and play praise him as a strong man and said and excused the murder of journalists and and and imprisoned in all the human rights abuses that he had. He did that all for twenty sixteen, maybe he just digs collector Kratz with authoritarian tendencies who you know are into white at the
but he I think that there is a there's a kindred there. Well, that's the kindred spirit.
Okay like, but is there a danger to their spirit, there's the he has leverage over them. There's the ego there's the kindred spirit, where both authoritarian- it's just sitting here in the world, in twenty eighteen trying to figure to try to,
We do our way through the world couple of couple of pee tapes.
I just like one really fucking weird thing from this press conference. I got some attention in these open
I said we go with us, brought up russian Interference of Putin and then use that
I'll, let Vladimir address it directly because he raised an interesting idea. So then Putin
like twenty minutes later, it goes on to say that the
Russian federation will let Muller
to Russia and russian officials will interview the Russians that Muller wants extradited and that represented from it
can sit on that, but there's a big catch, which is that Putin wants access to US persons, including Intel officers agents whatever
who he claims committed illegal acts against Russia. Then he cites Bill Browder
called red notice, who's this, like billionaire, who
It was basically driven out of Russia because he was trying to fight for
answer? A magnitsky was killed, there's a great parts of the world on this check it out and say
is that Browder's associates funneled money to Clinton. So it seems to me that
interesting idea is that we give
Are you an intel agents to put in to be
and and harassed, and maybe Bill Browder to like what the fuck. That's not interesting. That batch
Donald trumps called it a great idea. Okay, tastic. I did a little like a plot of literally the the plot of the villains of the film specter, and it's like put all put an end to do with was site the idea that Clinton might
I've got an money. Somehow, when this scheme he's like oh great, my default fall guy Hillary Clinton, let's go there yeah. That was that was
We are right. That was pretty weird okay, so that's the false acquits. The false equivalence right is the it's the it's the it's, the idea that you know like he. He hears from Putin. Here's
US intelligence who can decide right. That's the it's the other. If the underlying explanation for how you could say something so ludicrous, so the White House spin on this, which they've you know, funneled through Jonathan Swan of Access, was
his brain can't process that collusion and cyber attacks are two different. Things is one: that's not
spin flicks work yeah, so we're gonna ask his ears until whenever you're White House official telling a reporter the president's brain can't process acts sauce. Yes, you dumb, yeah the you know the backgrounds, this isn't a crime thing, their presence brains all broke and we got a broken president brain and that's a classic case of broken president brain and everybody's getting all crazy because that they think that
some crimes happening really just that the president can't process simple fact: we've got a mic rib stuck in there in eighty six years, not working right there. It's mostly special sauce up at this point there. Next there next explanation he seems
attentionally incapable of taking anything more refined seriously again when you,
that the president is constitutionally incapable of something. That's a problem.
And then they also went on to tell someone that a lot of them are not proud of them and they work for you. You're kidding well, yeah well, keep hold. We won't hold our breath for the resignations hours of anything. That's in Charlottesville, and not one of you has quit in protest. Just a quick shout out to writers in the a p. By the way they did a great job at that press conference and really like asking simple questions and then he up, like it yeah the model it was. It was quite good. No, I mean look
I think the upshot of this is whatever the reason. Donald Trump is in this for himself. He only cares about himself his own interests, his own
go saving his ass, whatever it may be. He is not thinking about the United States, he's not thinking about America's interests. It is not just on this issue. It is on every single
king issue, in every decision he's made every statement he's uttered since he's become president. The man does not care about anyone but himself he will throw,
family under the bus, he will throw his aides under the bus. He will for the United States under the bus and he's, and you pushed him he will throw the United States. Allies are the bus and he
showed all of that during that press conference today, and today was a disgrace and there's pretty
personally immediately described as such, but remember the trump people describe the access Hollywood tape release date. Is this big inflection
were you either with Donald you a ride or die for Trump or you or not, and you were out of the club permanently. He was his train
Everyone around him to have blind loyalty and the only people that will be able to weather this within will tell him that he was great, so there's never going to course correct they're! Never going to fix this, even if you,
emerging out, although aired and they're scared of him yeah, although, as you as you mentioned you guys, when you were talking with some of the reactions, let's go through some of the reactions from conservatives and Republicans because I don't think I've. I don't think I've seen anything like this. Since the access Hollywood tape from Board Charles will or
Charlottesville yeah, one of the most disgraceful performances by an american president in Memory Republican, Senator John Mccain, shameful Republican, Senator Jeff Flake, an affront to american democracy, GOP congressman Peter Roskam,
I've. Seen in russian intelligence manipulate many people in my career. I never thought the US president would be one of them republican congressman
Embassy agent will hurt Disgusting Fox host Neil Cavuto,
an idiot, Savant Heraldo, maybe like don't know that is also a backhanded compliment. No negotiation is worth throwing your own people and country under the bus, Abby
Huntsman, Fox and friends host
of Us Ambassador to Russia, Jon Huntsman, who sat there and-
nothing and is somehow still ambassador. Today, not really maybe get your dad on the blower Abby see what he thinks.
So you know, L. Obviously everyone into one of these republicans make their state when we go through a cycle that we usually go through, which is a Republican, makes a statement, that is mildly critical of Donald Trump or, in this case very critical of Donald Trump, and it runs like okay. You pal want to go, do something about it. So,
what are what are some actual steps? The Republicans could take as opposed to just
issuing sad tweets, sad statements being outraged going on Fox and saying that their troubles well at Dan Pfeiffer had some good.
About today that I like to read from so few things that are pretty simple
pass legislation to protect the special counsel's role and investigation they've been talking about this for months. They've all said: it's not necessary. It's not time, hey Mitch, Mcconnell step up and do it you could subpoena Trump taxes or business records. That seems like it's not going to happen, but hey. Why not
find out if the, if, if Russia has any finance right leverage over the president right, the current sanctions regime against Russia has a lot of discretion for the executive branch that allows them to opt out of some of that they can make them tougher. They could
stop holding hearings on Hillary Clinton's Fuckin' emails like three
years later and maybe hold hearings about how we can protect future elections, give
the Dni says it's a blinking red light moment from Russia attacks.
Like pre, nine, eleven, so eleven, so those are some things. Speaking of the I,
uh after after saying that he believed after saying that,
leave President Putin over his own
picture of national intelligence. Dan coats was
is to releases statement saying
By the way. We still believe that
because the evidence shows that Russia interfered in our election how to keep working in that building. If you're at the CIA or the State Department or the Dni's office, this guy just cuts your
sure like them, I do every single day humiliates the leadership of your agency. How do
work there. I mean David Ignatius made this point in his piece over the weekend, which is like imagine those intelligence officials. Imagine the people who've worked to uncover these crimes from Russia,
it helped molar with this indictment that on Friday and imagine all the work
I don't the risk they've taken and then they report at the information they and they watch. The president of the United States stand next to the man that committed these crimes that directed these crimes and say he believes them over. You
died. People have died over this. We already know that people connected the steel dossier had been killed. So we're talking about uh we're talking about a situation where a foreign adversary has committed one of the most brazen and successful attacks against us in american history. It is not only confirmed by intelligence agencies; it is now validated by dozens of charges by the FBI.
And the President states just doesn't give a shit. So we talked about some of the Republicans that criticize Trump with
is, will Republicans do anything about this, and if not, why
Rand, Paul RON Johnson took a trip to buck and how great
under the republican senators who took a trip to Russia over the fourth of July weekend. Look right now RON Johnson,
Richard Shelby. All of them is today minimize the threat to our lectures basically said no big deal, though some leftover stroganoff in the fridge. You know measurements so good, that's how recently they were there Mitch. Mcconnell said nothing so far
This is a recording this Monday night, but Mitch Mcconnell the same person that refused to let Barack Obama
uh put out a statement of bipartisan statement warning everyone that Russia was interfering, the election during the election in two thousand and sixteen? So that's Mcconnell. Do we think anything going
anything. Republicans will do anything about that now, 'cause like for all the good statements we read, you still have your fucking Subtweet heroes like Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio, who Roche Isabella Doctor on the world stage. They clearly hooked where election, but I'm not actually going to name trump. In my statement 'cause. I want you to know what I'm thinking, but I'm not going to say 'cause, I'm a pathetic out yeah. It's really like the worst kind of statement is the Paul Ryan or Rubio statement which says that states the fact that it states, as if they are agreeing to the fact that the intelligence agent,
that made. This conclusion is somehow impressive. As I've long stated, Russia interfered in our election and I believe we should take it seriously. State
from senators and members of Congress. That say: here's what the president should do or here's what happened without saying and if the president doesn't
I believe we should do X. Y Z are completely useless. They're, completely useless,
a Joni Ernst released an absolutely ridiculous statement which said that I hope behind closed doors. The president was much
yet so you're, so you're you're you're, hoping that behind closed doors, the press is a different person. Yep is a different person behind closed doors, so it is incredibly discouraging what you know like Jeff Flake, just like put out a fine statement, John Mccain put an incredibly tough statement it. It's almost like someone needs to remind these guys that
or something most powerful. People on planet earth particularly hold up a Supreme Court nominee writers going to particularly with the fact that the Senate right now is five thousand and forty nine without Mccain there they have. You have a lot of power in the Senate.
Really win yeah. The margin is that close, and he and it's I just wanna, move off of that, because it is, I think it speaks to the larger cultural rot out. That Trump has been able to exploit it's this feeling again and again that something really bad happened. Something unprecedented happening, happens it's awful and and and and sad and and and breaks your heart and then nothing changes and part of the reason that happens. Is there a lot of people in power who, for a lot, for for personal reasons, for political reasons, for structural reasons, don't how to use it, they don't have to exploit. It did not take advantage of it.
You're, free to use their power, they're afraid to actually be part of history and and if there's one recurring theme of the Trump Administration is that over and over again, people are given the biggest test of their lives and they fail again and again and again and we're seeing it right now. Re reading
the secret over the weekend, I've did not read the secret, but I do believe in the secret. I do believe that you can will positive changes into the world by either change really expecting them to have well. So here's something even darker, it brings us too
yet another explanation for why Trump acted the way he did today, and that is because.
He wanted to help and
still wants to help you. We keep talking about everything is some. What happened in the past is history, but it's not like, as you said, Tommy Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence. You know said that the it just
the day all the lights are flashing. Red Putin intends
interfere in our election again in twenty eighteen. He could do it again in twenty twenty and
A lot of these Republicans in specifically Donald Trump, probably want the help, because they
Putin's on their side. So the question is like it's not just about figuring out what happened. It's about figuring, what happened so that we can protect
future elections from interference, and the reason that so many of these Republicans need to take this seriously in the Democrats should be screaming from the rooftops is not
so that we can like hope that Muller indicts a bunch of people, but that we can make sure that in twenty eighteen and twenty,
our democracy isn't subverted yeah. I I feel like there's two there's two fears are when they're, both off all in one is cataclysmic, there's the awful fear, which is that, once again, the Russians are the russian. These are these foreign actors are going to exploit the weaknesses in our press weaknesses in cyber security, to steal things and make them so division try to undermine the people that they want to lose and and that's a frightening outcome. I hope that we have adopted. I do think that, because Trump is now president in a lot of
the world is changed. We talked about this. Like the impact of leaked emails, now be like elite emails. Go yourself. We we got bigger fish to fry. I like where, where I I I've you by Billy, I don't think they wouldn't. I do think they make news, I don't
we'd be totally able to put them aside, but I think we handle it along with a little bit more maturity. I think each time there's been these big leaks. We've done that. But then there is this deeper fear which is other than integrity. You look at what's happened in our system and you said what what's? What is to stop them from attacking the actual electoral systems and that's the unspoken on certain terrifying outcome and
We are still at least partially protected by the fact that we don't have a national voter registration right, it's state by state and county by county, it's hard up, but I think that we are fooling ourselves if we believe that there is a chance that we will wake up the day after election and not know that it was stolen from us. I do. I do not share your confidence that we've matured in any way as it is press corps as a body politic. If you look at like the Sony hack to twenty sixteen, I think we serve reacted in the same way that allowed ourselves to be used by a covert action program. I do take some confidence in the fact that that the Russians hacked a whole bunch of emails in advance of the french press,
elections and they have a whole different set of rules over there, but it didn't impact the outcome they would. Russia wanted Marine Le Pen to win Mccrone one, so they did get the outcome. They wanted that. I think there's a lot of twenty sixteen that was
a black swan event in many ways, as we've discussed in the show, and will hopefully never discuss again, but it would be great if Congress actually focused in held accountable, DHS,
or the d and I or any of the relevant agencies and said what have you done in the last year and a half to protect us yeah, and I do that. I mean
I am very worried that reporters, but special political reporters have not learned the lesson of twenty sixteen when most of them reported on the stolen emails and and helped.
Read this misinformation, and I really I guess it doesn't- do us much good to predict
they have or haven't, but doesn't matter if you've info wars and Fox news and bright barred, rightly caller like yeah. I guess I guess I I guess I don't. I guess maturity is the wrong phrase. I I I guess I just mean that we're in a state of crisis every single day there's a ongoing crisis and somehow, in a poll politics that is in crisis, it doesn't feel as though leaked emails. Hacked emails can make as much of a dent doesn't mean they won't get the unfair coverage that was mean they will be exploited, doesn't mean it won't be reported on, but somehow I just think not because we're better people, but because we're in
situations that would that it won't. It can't are same different. I mean that's my that's and I, and obviously that's plausible- that that's what is possible, but the
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said came all this way to discover the moon, but instead we discovered the earth. I think I got the quote wrong
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one thing, we've talked about the press conference on Monday, wasn't an isolated
Incident even in the last week. It was the grand finale of Trump's fuckyou you, Europe tour
where he attacked America's oldest and closest allies on son.
He called the European Union of FO. He was asked who are America's foes and he started with the European Fuqing Union. He bad british prime.
Sister Theresa. May he attacked the mayor of London. He said
European Union leaders are destroying their countries culture by legally welcome and welcoming immigrants and refugees? Tell me what kind of damage does this do
to our relationships, this something that we can like brush off. Is this something that's going to have far reaching consequences? If he
is able to pull us out of NATO or help splinter NATO that is maybe on fixable damaging NATO was intended to keep Europe together, keep them from fighting and served in tie their military alliance and security to us. It is been incredibly successful, but if you know, if you take
goes a different direction. I don't think that's fixable uh! I don't know why he is picking all these fights with european allies. I think he has a fundamental misunderstanding of tray.
And what it means to run a trade deficit anything so they all os money, but it certainly benefits these national.
Parties that are already on the rise in Europe? I mean you're, seeing it in in in Hungary in ITALY.
In Turkey are the ones been autocratic and Trump was apparently praising him
the NATO meeting in giving him a fist bump and saying my boy aired. One knows how to do things like white, like what lock up all his opponents and crack down on. You know civil liberties so
he's creating massive rifts and he is peeling a part alliances that have been helped created by us and a benefit us for decades and I'd that's very hard to fix and again all of these actions that he took everything he said lines up perfectly with Vladimir Putin's goals to break up NATO to at least rupture the alliance's of western to me
sees to ally himself with strong men and dictators and right wing nationalist parties. It's pretty scary. It's very scary, yeah. I don't think he's a when he's talking about culture. I don't think he's talking about like the decline of french New Wave Cinema
or like the tempest. You know that. That's what I really like. You brought that lab job because that when he
as those things he means non. White people are moving into Europe.
It is so gross and fucking blatant and
I really had a hard time watching the press core goof around with him in that previous press conference, when he was with Theresa may over in
we're outside of London because he was allowed in London. He scared of a tiny balloon, so much there's so many things for me was making the races that doesn't work. The president and the like. I just hope that, after
he said that in Europe we just stop fucking, pretending that any of his rhetoric or policies on immigration or about gangs or crime or national security,
or the economy or anything else. What he said is indistinguishable from white nationalists say about immigration, because in in Europe he wasn't talking about illegal immigration. He was talking about legal immigration. He was talking about welcoming refugees yeah, it's a it out just to bring a full circle. Tucker Carlson today was talking
about Russian Election interference. He said all kinds of countries interfere. I think Mexico's done more to interfere with american elections, because they're trying to quote pack our electorate
Download yeah, so yeah they're, trying to pack our electorate, so
Carlson, who he one time and he missed like horrible things.
And it was happening Donald Trump. He said
so you pee one time next thing you know: you're standing there,
so you're, making it very well, but it connects these two things right, because Tucker Carlson is
white nationalism. To explain away. Traitorous treason
behavior, and that's another thing by the way. That's another word that, for
long time I was reluctant to use, because you know treason in the constitution
it's it's. It will get the death well, the definition is, and what people complain about before is to commit treason. The United States has to be at war with another country, and you have to do something. The interest of that country we are. Even though Russia launched a cyber attack against us. We are not officially at war with Russia. So therefore it's not true. That's what people said last time, my my my my my by problem with it wasn't that it was not technically defined according to the rules, the constitution, it's that it felt like the kind of bombastic rhetoric of twitter of people crossing the Delaware every single day, but I think, what's different today,
a as you watch what you watch Trump in Pune on that stage and hi it is treason he is. He betrayed the country. Well, it's right by trade. American. Did you know it's it's betrayed. Americans. Are you saying that it was John Brennan, former CIA director saying it was nothing short of treasonous
and John Brennan is not some. You know
resistance hero on Twitter, crossing the Delaware. No, as you said, John Brennan has seen every secret knows: every secret. This country hasn't seen every piece of intelligence, the most sensitive intelligence in the world,
throughout the eight years that Barack Obama was president, so for John Brennan to be 20th for John Brennan to be as upset as John Brennan is. He knows some
yeah and that actually, just one more point about that, he does know some shit and that's actually one of the most enraging parts about this, because there's a lot of Republicans who spend their days and nights covering for Donald Trump and the
no fucking clue what they're covering for they are protecting him and
An acting is that what he's doing is normal. They don't know what secret he's trying to keep right right. They don't know right, but they're always says this: they, the the the craziest thing
about these Republicans. Is they don't even know the crimes they're covering up? Yes, they are engaged in a massive cover up for the president and they don't know what the grounds
blindly doing it yeah Devin Newness, is like I'll do whatever it takes I'll shut down any investigation. Paul Ryan's like you. Do you
I'm just going to turn the other way and just said fees for the camera. Go ahead. Just have fun. I don't know what the crimes are but
You know you guys cover for Donald Trump by day get fooled by Sacha, Baron Cohen at night.
Guides. You are a moron should be not between Sascha Baron, Cohen and Maria Bertino. Were there any Republicans in some of these meetings just a bit, we should yeah. We should talk about that. I mean we've been: we've been referencing the molar indictments throughout this conversation, but let's
the new information we learned on Friday, which I think was four years ago.
The attorney General ROD Rosenstein charge twelve russian Millett
Intel officers with hacking, both the Dnc and Clinton campaign in twenty sixteen
the indictment also included details about how russian hackers allegedly compromised our elections infrastructure. They stole personal information from five hundred thousand voters. That's another thing like you know
Donald Trump doesn't like Hillary Clinton up there. Five hundred thousand
people had their information stolen, Donald Trump's up there. If I can just kissing Vladimir Putin's assets and saying hey Russia, can you get her extra emails and then that day they try to find it. For the first time
talk about how an american congressional candidate apparently asked for anime- and I may have received hacked documents about his opponent, a russian
here's gained access to the Clinton campaign teams analytics in September of twenty sixteen huge deal, those listening that helps. You understand the entire game plan for the other,
that's like that's like something New England. Patriots might do. We fill your practices, will steal your playbook. We know how to whip here at my God Tommy, I'm so proud of you for that analogy.
It meant the world to me for you to be fit to be to be that open
using the patriots gonna, throw a lobster roll at your face. Well, actually do it over to your point just before you move in that specific that specific charge. One thing that a lot of people have, notably don't know this yet, but this information is stolen from the Clinton campaign and then within days
All of a sudden there's all these announcements that the Trump campaign is changing their strategy specifically changing
strategy about having trying to stop the people that the Clinton campaign cares about the most, which is the exact kind of information that comes out of these kinds of analytics.
And also I mean there's of course after that tweets rumors out there? You know Nate Silver, Joshua Green, who both you know no lot about the election read a lot about analytics and data. Both said you know they. The Trump campaign didn't need
read this analytics to know that
They were ignoring Michigan Wisconsin and that was their play and they should end up about, but like I think this is all us. This is all beside the point. Yeah I did
gonna rather register. I cut my finger in my butt off. They stole the playbook what they did with the playbook, who knows they stole
the analytics in the campaign and at the Trump campaign. Somehow,
got their hands on that Anolick information. That's the crime doesn't matter what the they did with. It
it was interesting to me, is this wasn't just attack on the Clinton campaign. It was an attack on the entire democratic party they're, going up to the Dnc right. He triple c r, which is room
cool and it broadens the whole thing, and then I just couldn't help read this, but Think Congress spent, like one thousand four hundred and fifteen hours last week, kick
push it out of Peter struck for sending text messages where he was upset,
to a mistress that he never intended to be public
drawing the life of a guy who spent his career, trying to block
an adversaries from hacking us like a counter
Elgin's mission that was absolutely critical to preventing what happened there.
Destroyed this guy, rather than
is on the mission he used to work well and, like think about that, in light of the press conference today gee, I wonder why Peter struck didn't like Donald Trump yeah. Well, that's that's
so does half the football that we've been to republican things. Most disgraceful thing they could imagine, don't like Donald right. No yeah, I mean that's a that's a it's a it's a good, it's a good, it's a question that they don't ask: that's not that's the falcons and that that doesn't come out that that try,
open and the people people all the rest of like? Oh there's, the FBI
agents there out there to get Donald Trump, the intelligence communities out there to get Donald Trump? You there's plenty of reasons to be critical of the intelligence community, but doesn't give you any pause to know that all these Karere intelligence experts believe that Donald Trump is a threat, does not does not give you
because at all, I guess not not great up, and the last thing we learned in this was on Monday, the Justice Department charged,
a russian gun rights advocate with
acting as a russian agent Maria Butina attempted to set up a back channel line of communication,
between the Republican Party and the russian government through the NRA. Just a perfect bow on this whole fuckin'
and she she tried to broker a Trump Putin meeting during the twenty sixteen campaign, so does enter NRA people, Dana Loesch,
Dan Bongino, the roid raising former secret service like they're, like they are just the worst people
learn they spend more money to elect Donald Trump funneled. Huge amounts of money towards adds more than
I have for any other Republican in recent memory is Jen Palmeri
Clinton campaign pointed out today they didn't run ads about guns. They ran out about ads about Benghazi,
there is a so this, the NRA, Russia Connection is now just coming to light with some of these other indictments. So that story, that's that's, coming attractions for what will will be finding in the future, so
um we're going to ask our next guest all about this and more
we will have Marcy Wheeler or been covering all of this on right after the break. You know what this story all feels like with that Helsinki warmed over. You know, there's art
thank God. We got a title so much better when you have when you have to think about it after the pod. Thanks love, it welcome Marcy Wheeler after this
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Catch up catch up on the blood. Today we have with us independent Journalists, Marcy Wheeler, you can read her writing on empty, will dot net marcy. Thank you so much for joining us.
you wrote today that at the Helsinki summit,
uh, put in essentially re enacted, the infamous June ninth, two thousand and sixteen meeting that took place between Trump campaign.
Close in a russian lawyer who promised them dirt on Clinton's campaign
What did you mean by that? So if people remember back on June, ninth twenty sixteen, a woman named italian vestments Guyana got a meeting. I'm from a guy named Rob Goldstone. I am
Don Junior offered Don Junior Dirt on Hillary Clinton,
and I love it especially later this summer and the meeting
effectively was best, let's guy, coming in and pretending that that Bill Browder had dirt on Hillary,
ten and then saying please get rid of the magnet ski sentience which the US imposed on Russia for human rights violations and subsequently about a week,
after that. That's when the stolen emails from the emails that Russia had stolen from John Podesta and from the Dnc started being released.
On a on a wordpress site, so you've got
dirt on Hillary Magnitsky, sanctions free email
stolen from Democrats and all of those
factors except for the well. All of those factors showed up in today's in today's hearing with Bladimir Putin with
I'm just sitting there looking like a a little boy trying to get in, you know trying to get approval from Daddy Mars a you have a ph
and believe in comparative literature, does it does it take a phd to manage Donald Trump
What do you make of the way he seems to be just like
said he looked like a little boy, but even his posture he just looked kind of defeated
when he walked in there, like what do you think Putin has on this guy? We joke about the pee tape, but you think it might be worse
Yeah, I do I mean one of the aspects of the election year attack that has gotten far too little. Attention is the fact that
a presumed rush.
Persona, was dumping NSA's tools all over the internet- and I pointed
out the other day that
when that persona started doing that again in April
three days after trump
from Syria, in retaliation for an ocelot attack on civilians,
the theme was all about Syria. Just as these themes I mean that's, that's a consistent theme in sort of what Trump is supposed to pay off to Vladimir Putin for his election. Your help- and I think, there's stuff like that that that
I think it goes far beyond a pee tape. I think
goes and the Russians also
are very good at getting. I mean, we've looked after this,
This is kind of a side light because there seems to be a russian spy everyday, but
the NRA spy Maria Butina, who is arrested over the weekend. There are pictures of her with all of these republican a fish.
Feels that she was trying to compromise and
I I assume that the Russian similarly have pictures or trump doing something stupid agreeing to this deal with the Russians dirt.
getting rid of the Magnitsky sanctions an and I think that's what it's going to come down to
you wrote over the weekend that uses
The reality is molar is close to taking steps that will lay out a case for conspiracies with Russia, involving people very close to Trump. Are there any
lose from what we've already seen laid out publicly about who those people might be, what the conspiracies might be
and how scared should Roger Stone be right now. Well,
where I should probably confess that I went to the FBI on some things. I've got the inside track, but I mean I think that I think that the I think that
I think the June ninth meeting Israel
and I would expect anybody associated with the June ninth meeting to be
in a bit of trouble, particularly if Paul metaphor ever decides to get around the flipping and his his trial is about ten days away. So you may see some emergency on that front. I do think we're
stone is in trouble and Roger Stone was was described in some detail in Friday's indictment against twelve,
a russian military intelligence officers and so
he and Lee Stranahan, both of whom kind of had a role in in pretending
that goes for two was not russian. I think that they're, both probably in a bit of trouble,
Ann Miller spent much of the spring calling
witnesses on Roger Stone, so he certainly got a lot of interest in that front and so that you know
meeting was Manafort Kushner.
Don Junior. What else is in the brain trust that day is that about it? That's about it
there's a there's, a guy,
was a lobbyist, but the lobbying is, you know, kind of suspect, so he's he's an american citizen there's another guy lots of who works for uh,
Ross Agalarov, who is sort of Trump's handler again one of the things that Putin brought up today. He was asked point blank: do you have any compromised on Trump
and he said, oh, I don't think I even knew that Trump was in the country in two thousand and thirteen when he brought Miss Universe to Moscow, which is
a a lie, because there are sworn statements everywhere, saying that Putin cancel,
meeting with him at the very last minute, but I mean how are you going to Miss Miss Universe being shot from Moscow? That's like trump. You know core trump and Putin. Half naked women cult
I'm so it's a lie but
one of the things he was pointing to is that the idle our ups, who set up the June ninth meeting also brought from to Moscow? That's when the alleged p tape happened, but I think it's been
than that. I mean, I think, that you know they basically
the russian oligarchs brought Trump
Moscow and and
celebrated him and that was kind of the beginning of this, of this cultivation of trump that
in in them significantly helping him win the election in twenty sixteen, so you may,
and how you went to the FBI
a good amount been written already, but how you decided you'd reveal one of your sources to the FBI, essentially making you a witness and molars.
Navigation. You didn't need this for
publicly, but you wrote in your blog about how you decided to do this after you got a text sometime after the election about the possibility of Michael Flynn meeting with syrian officials. I believe it was right after the election what ultimately fifteen hours
after I mean it, wasn't it wasn't like hey. Let's get
and get rid of the hangover. It was like, let's get up and immediately start paying. Our debts
ultimately pushed you to take this to the FBI. Well, it wasn't about the text. It was about other things. You know this person, I think, played a significant role in in parts of the attack and it took some time before I was actually before. I actually believe that was
I mean it was sort of like you are crazy and then I wake you
next time like? No, you really need to think about this, and so I
I first started trying long before I actually did and
nine, to kind of preserve, more journalistic equities, go to the FBI and ask some questions and see if they start, you know screaming I'm and
Then things got more urgent, and so then I kind of gave up and just wants the FBI and sat down in a room with them. So so it's it was a
it's a long process. I spoke to eight lawyers over the course of getting to the FBI.
An with a growing sense of urgency and panic really Marcie. You are an expert,
national security in civil liberties. You are a big fan of the fourth amendment. Among
like you're, not a big fan of the FBI either it was actually coming. That's where I'm getting to write like you're, a big civil libertarian. The first time you and I interacted with probably were kicking the shit out of the Obama administration for drones, name
drones name your over each yesterday once come.
A long way on the question of Russia collusion over the past several years like can you help us understand,
your evolution and what got you to a place
where you actually went to the FBI and now are seen as someone who is a part of this investigation rather than just reporting on it
talk to me after this I'll breaks. No, I mean I from
about June, when it first started breaking to December? There were alternate theories
I had some other people pitchmen with alternate theories which might actually be part of what I'm doing a the Russians were hoping to use as their plaza
and I ability, and so it can be
the fact that I'm a natural skeptic. I was testing all of these theories and meanwhile trying to figure out whether this person, I knew, is actually part of it, so
I was juggling with those three things for for a long time and overtime.
I'm more and more public evidence came out that showed that at least the case that Russia,
the Dust Podesta's emails and
Oh, by the way we figured out that the emails first released by this Guccifer, two figure were podesta emails, so it kind of
once you once you make that connection. You can
ignore the Julian Assange question for a little while, although I think Julian Assange,
since Friday, a lot of Julia Julian Assange is dead, enders have been trying to
and why I think they're they're kind of claim
about metadata- are not sufficient to argue that Julian Assange can play dumb, but I'm
yeah. So it was a long process and I and I
to say that it some of like in the indictment Friday there
several sort. I could point to paragraphs and say this is where that source who talk to me in July,
This is where that source, who talked to me in in January, is so you know I did talk to a lot of you, the the the skeptics all call.
In that all of this intelligence comes from the NSA and that's simply not true, I mean. Obviously it comes from crowd strike, but there are many other
places where the intelligence in Friday's indictment came from, and I happen to be well placed to talk to a bunch of those
people as sources I'm
in touch base with them since Friday. So so you know it's.
Actually not the case that it's all about crowd strike in the NSA that there was
there was evidence everywhere that this is the
This was the Russians an now in Fridays document. That's all kind of laid out it just you don't know who it came from, and everyone assumes it was the NSA. But that's not true. Do you think that, at the very least, the threads of what ultimately took place in the twenty sixteen election with Russia with Trump are all out there in public right now and it's a matter
molar connecting them together for everyone, or do you think that there is a good deal of this
worry that is still hidden that we will find out in the in the coming months. Well, my parts going to be a surprise for virtually everyone, I'm, but I
but but some of what I know was in public, I mean some of what I want to be a guy was with was hey. Look at this, that's public. I just was looking at it from a very different perspective than a lot of people. I'm and that's part of the core case. I think I'm you know with
again, I the the reason I want the F b I's, because this person played a significant role in the election attack, not because he got a text. Fifteen hours after the polls closed I or sent me a tax fifteen hours of the polls,
those making it clear, he knew exactly what was going on inside the White House, and this is not a republican and not somebody who has any ties to Trump. So I think
that there will. I assume it must be true that there are many witnesses like me who
were witnesses to stuff that nobody knows about who were watching. People who know
paying attention to who are part of this and so yeah. I suspect that that kind of case is going to be pretty pretty surprising and pretty.
Strong. I mean I like I've, said this- that I never talked to Peter struck who's, the FBI agent, that that Trump attacked in
Sync you today right, he wasn't anywhere near the testimony I gave to the FBI, wasn't actually speaking to the mall or inquiry when I did I'm and I can
point to things that between what I told the FBI and what what I found you know
Lee there, after lying out there in public, I can get right to trump
and so I assume that's true by a number of means, and therefore there
mother sitting on a lot, and he, I think, is going to roll it out and
today is any indication in finally, we've got Republicans saying this is
on the pale, we cannot have a president, the subject himself to a hostile foreign power like he did like Trump did.
I think we might see some momentum. Finally, turning against Trump mercy, hey
I love it here, quick question on level of surprise: six cents, what what kind of a twister we heading towards here? Is it more like the village where it's a bit disappointing, but and
doesn't hold together? What do you think
so bad a pop culture. Please don't quiz me in public on Blanco. Now I think there there are some big plot twists,
I did a series some
it's ago when, when the questions that Miller wants Trump to answer came out- and I laid
I'm like this is clear. Quid pro quo, I mean they went to Trump and said: will help you. We want sanctions really
we want Syria throwing.
Ukraine, maybe we'll throw in a trump tower, and that's that's it. That's. That is the basic equation.
Talking about then throw in Israel and the Emirates and the Saudis and
Crowder's head on a spike and
the all the most you know awful human rights abuser is sitting in the Seychelles Islands with Erik Prince, I'm that's
develop some and that's going to turn into kind of garden variety, money laundering. That also happens to be tied with the theft of the election, but the core.
Story of it in writing. Definition of garden variety. What home depot? Are you going to? Well, it's yeah. Okay, it's you know the verse size garden, all in total right, it's massive! It is massive corruption in its all of this I mean Eric Prince is I you know, I'm in I'm in a town with about ten buildings named after
and and it's perfect for him right, because it's about making
A lot of money off of killing people for other people and doing it to keep very powerful Korea
evil men in power? I think that's that's the short story and that's why Trump likes Putin so much
and likes the Saudis so much and likes Bb Netanyahu. So much so I'm that's that's the narrative right, but again. I think that the basic equation is this quid pro quo, the the help for sanctions relief, the help for Syria and the Trump
our thrown in because trouble, do I not read from tap right into football phone mercy? We all kind of wish you work for Bob Miller, but you don't you're an independent journalist who writes about all these really important issues. How can people support your work if they like what they are? Well, they can, you know, go to my site and and dump money and may or just read it at you know any site. I write very. What's your stuff and
Finally, you know when it like the last time I had this kind of following was during the CIA leak case, so I'm you know back to covering the big scandalous legal case, but
emptywheel dot net, that
Everyone can listen to Marcy on the foreign policy episode of the wilderness. We had a fantastic interview for that too,
thank you so much for joining us and will talk to you soon. I'm going to be on thanks.
Thanks to Marcy Wheeler for joining us today and and thanks also to Joe America, for stopping by hello, have have will have lovely holidays out pretty soon. I hope you a good July. Fourth, it
this last one you will have next next time hold. They will be slightly different, so when's your sit down with Chris Wallace. I thought the whole federation was doing Fox news today, so I gave Vladimir Bum
here by telling him to spend time in real trouble. I I said always Fox news is be nice. You know, I thought it be one of the idiots from the morning when they've morning idiots your morning american idiots, but it was not. It was the Chris Wallace with one of the two good ones
a problem, I'm going to I'm very worried. I look
I'm not saying I walk around with Geiger meter, but I'm not too worried about my tea. Having a little. You know, I'm afraid my teammate mowing dark. You know the idea of writing about splenda. I don't want to think about it too much hard to sleep hard to sleep anyway. I love the NRA. Usa, forever. Monologue ideals, see Thursday hi guys.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-13.