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two zipper greater. Is the presented sponsor POD save America, as I just said, and now our listeners contrived for free, like yeah, free, zip, recruiter, dotcom such crooked that separated outcome such crooked one more time, zip, accoutred our com, slash nothing in the history of humankind has ever benefited by having Lou Dobbs on Speaker I welcome the pod, save America, I'm John Favour. I'm John Mother, Tommy, these or other part today will have Tommy's interview with community activist very anxious about the protests in Sacramento over the shooting of Stefan Clark. Then later we'll be talking to honour Mary Cox about the ran new season of with friends like these will be in Florida. Later this week there are still some tickets available, one or two just one or two for clear water from Miami.

Miami and for Lando, listen, you're on the fence. coming to love it or leave it in Miami. I want you to know that if you're worried about being able to get good seats, put that we're heading what's the news anyway, the news According to this, by the way, I should just talk about the elephant and we recording this on Monday evening. It's an expense to see what it would be like to discover? We dont like recording on Monday evening us another great silver area, our love. It has been in a fit today. I don't over this evening, he's been hanging over my head. A cast. A pall over the whole day anyway I the news, so we haven't had a full blown Trump twitter meltdown and while, but we were treated to one on Easter Sunday, that has basically lasted through right for we started this pod cause. He was still fucking tweeting about macoutes in hedge on a couple minutes ago on discharging nomination hedge on having heard the goodness Easter

an Easter thing. We news Christine inserted crickets after that. That is not so This tweet storm that start on Easter Trump attacked. Some of his old favorites got Amazon the FBI that of justice, CNN and Assent see, but the real focus was immigration. It seems as if the president had states was triggered by a fox and friends segment about hundreds of people from Central America who are travelling through Mexico to seek asylum in the United States trumps there

coming to take advantage of Dhaka, which is extra, stupid, heard a he cancelled, Dhaka and be Doc only applies to the children of immigrants have been here since two thousand and seven he was confronted with this can under him today during the eastern grow and seen instrument casilda him. But, Mr President, didn't you kill Dhaka and then trumped stared at him and didn't say anything. So why is Trump suddenly so upset about immigration mean there's lots of Fox in front segments? Usually they led him to tweet something and then he moves on. but this is really stuck with him now for forty eight hours, yeah I've? U what we should. The peace in question was about a caravan of folks from Central America Muslim from Honduras, with a group of people without borders going north through Central America. It's an annual journey. This happens every year, raising awareness about people who are seeking asylum from government, oppression or horrible crime

firstly from organised crime and so Foxen friends, rather than calling these people asylum seekers called him. A small army of migrants marching towards the United States, so thither that is starts with just horrific racist framing. They accuse the mexican government of being complicity. This. What this stems from, though as eyes. Seemingly a concerted effort from the high priestess? down of the Magua movement and culture shot Hannity Jean Pierrot Lou Dobbs, attack him on immigration guess he has not yet built a wall because he's an idiot and does not to legislate get anything out of Congress and they rolled him in the omnibus. But I may Let's unpack that lets. Let's start with the high priest is the mug movement, because she is not too happy and culture sat down with Frank Bernie of the New York Times for an interview where she, basically,

Trump, not building the wall would be more of a betrayal than implementing the principles of the communist manifesto. She said that there is a new He said that there is a new category of voters now called former Trumpery, and this should be terrifying to the President's she's now counting herself, almost as a former Trumbo, unless he surprises her and builds the wall. The conundrum, of course, is that he probably will not be able to build the wall love it when you think it's interesting, though so, first of all its always surprising to see what, like so in an culture, turns her short of evil max Packing someone. We disagree with its interesting to seekers. Oh, she is good at this writers. She is good at this, like even just saying, there's a new category of people, former trumpets, it's a persuasive, interesting way of framing things. I you don't trumped to me. I think there's two things going on in any one of us: there's two things going on thing: one all this news about people being an

about him at immigration is clearly god damn it got him before. It's why he threatened to veto. The omnibus was in part, because you know the huskies you're angry at him about the Wall Funding, so he was dimly looking for something to latch onto. He also is very good about attaching himself tat kind of bite, size versions of giant controversies in part because he knows its effective and partly also that's the biggest amount of information he can process. So this is one of those great perfectly built Trump things right. It's easily understandable. Here these people they're coming towards him, I'm Tryin, started image, scary image, and so it's a place for him to reassert himself with these hard liners and remind them that he's on their side, and so he sees no downside to its who is enjoying it and by the way, a thought it's all like he's is not an example where it's like. He just Pesa corporate tax bill, and now he screwing up his messenger. He just gave a state of the union rate in shit himself. So now is stepping up its message. It's been basically to

eggs of Mahler and Stormy Daniel? So whatever letter read Mahina rage away, you know it's interesting though it's this would have been the perfect story for Trump. The two thousand eleven leader of the birth or movement as he is outside of government outside of politics, and to summon tweeting and yelling about everything. Yeah. You can see the frustration we are now he's, president of the United States and all he can do as he can talk with the story that he's a Congress ACT, build Wall Dhaka cancelled, like he doesn't, have any levers to pull, because he is not very good at this job. I mean he, he had a chance to build the wall at one point, Chuck tumor put the fucking wall on the table if all Trump was willing to do was to offer the dreamers, a path to citizenship and he didn't take it because Stephen Miller told him no. No, that is not good enough. We need cuts to legal immigration. In addition to getting the wall, you can show the wall and because he scuttle that deal

Customs. I know now come to realize, he's now forgetting the wall, because he doesn't have the votes in Congress to get the wall, and he thinks that the milk he's going to do it on their own. In so you get defence Secretary, Damascus, run up all kinds of options for him, basically just to placate and because the Pentagon can't do this under threat. I don't even accept that. Excuse that, oh he didn't want to do the deal, because Stephen Miller talked him out of it. The thing that you hear from all these stories about what it's like to be in this White House is ultimately Trump is extremely indecisive. yeah and deciding to make a deal I didn't come back to when he was talking about the omnibus he made her Marcie remark about Obama, said Obama even signed a bigger one, and then he added a sentence which was an eye Betty wasn't too happy about. It the only time I've ever seen, Donald Trump acknowledge the fact that Barack Obama has an interior life, but also, but even putting that aside, it's a reminder of the fact that he is facing these presidential decision and deciding to say the screw, Stephen Miller,

against Paul Ryan go to church humor and say: have you Dhaka, you give me twenty five billion it's the decision. Only a president can make No one is going to tell him yes or no it's a final moment when it comes to him, and I don't think he's up for it. I don't I dont think in that moment he can make that kind of a deal just real on the on the hypothesis immigrant immigration plans are basically plagiarized from her book, which was called Adios America. The less plan to turn our country into a third world, hellhole catchy title she's vile. She settled hate for a living. We have to make it plain trump brilliantly here she knows lever dishes. The plan shows how to play the New York Times, the article of the little chummy for my taste and like when she comes and said: well, we love from cause. He doesn't care about the opinions of Manhattan sophisticates as a new cane in high school and Coronel University grad, currently living in New York. I nearly want to the keyboard of my laptop, but to your point like she'd, like these people are coming at him

hard and he is now in charge and he has no more leverage anywhere legislatively and in Paul Ryan ignored him every one in order. But it is true that he has kind of refuse to do the things he does seem to be kind of captured by the Paul Ryan, a town, the things he cannot do in a way that an culture thought he might be. The one person who wouldn't be captured by the Epp group, I think she said Trump- could sell trump products from the oval office. If he got the wall built like they literally care about nothing else. I am because he's failed to do that. Central promise they're losing these and he's getting that I mean the Wash Napoleonic. He was privately grousing that his supporters are going to start getting pissed that he didn't build the wall. A bunch of his guests at me. our logo brought it up over the weekend, like you said tonnage in a Hannity, former Fox executive bill. Shine was there he paused for a moment. It is recognised that what you,

You're said is very terrible about. I do know that what a horrible cocktail party goes or the people that are giving him advice Annie in the corner of the drinking like there is no one here The topic of many show lame than my God hung at those who I really don't want to leave this person. I felt that the daily beast has a fantastic story about Lou doves and how he was he's been on speaker phone in the oval office during meetings, because this is a great what sets Dobbs is the degree to which the President views him as a political and populism Godfather the Muggah Socrates to trumps It would be budget, be quivers ain't. Nobody histories ever looked up to elude Dobbs. He was thinking also rend, CNN Idiot use a birth, thirty may leave. You leave here, do everywhere in this dossier and he left the doktor and he during the dark come bubble. He ran space dot com. That was like one of the things he did and then now is relegated to fox business, raise like the triple a ball of a fact, re wording

loads trial balloons like the? U S: Marshall should arrest Obama if he criticizes from, because that's not appropriate, like you just some crazy old lunatic who gets patch into oval office, one continent it does seem clear, though, that we are going to because this is what the base. This is what gets the base up in the morning at least the motto base and an Coltrane those people that all of these candidates, republican carriers are going to run on immigration and be talking about immigration and trying to find not talk about the policy but trying to find these stories. You know these vivid stories of caravans or Emma's thirteen or gangs, and they want to run on this from now until November, and I guess the question is what a Democrats do, what happens with Doc, others Bloomberg Sort Ray Jackie Rosen in Nevada, said she's discuss in her race every day. Obviously, there's a big population of dreamers in Nevada. Crews, on the other hand, in Texas, is also discussing it in his race, everyday thinking that it will energize his base talk about how he stood against it

what are you guys? I propose that we use military funds take away military funds to build the wall. That add right itself. Like me, imagine images of God and in body armor and tanks being literally ripped out of the hands of U S, service members, the fact that they think that immigration is a more salient issue for their racist base is instructive. I would like to see Democrats use that too The other thing they feared anecdote is the ape here Where did the some people close to Trump suggested? Creating a go. Fuck me for the wall, which is just so, perfectly stupid. I wish Dan were here today to more about it. All for guys, like you know, I think this is you were like. Dhaka is a great thing for Democrats to talk about, because it is such a wildly pillar issue, but I do think there is some risk more broadly for Democrats on immigration unite. I think we should be afraid to talk about of overtime immigration. I don't know that I would make that the heart of what we're talking about right now, a much more interesting to jump in shape, wrote this piece about corruption. I don't know

corruption, the centrepiece of it forces health care, the economy whatever, but I certainly don't think we should be afraid of saying that Donald Trump made a whole bunch of promises. Immigration can keep a single one of them refused to help these kids didn't get his Walden get anything done, didn't solve. A compromise didn't ass. The problem and that's at Madame Raffoni Amiens had been in that there's a whole bunch of things ever got a cancer can talk about it. I think that there is a reason that helping the dreamers poles at seventy eighty. Ninety percent and Democrats can feel confident going out there. Even if you are running in a state that doesn't have a big dreamer population, saying young people who were here were brought here through no fault of their own, who were working, who were in college, were studying. They deserve to have a chance to be

EU citizens and they deserve not to be deported back to countries that they ve never lived and before. I think it is a fairly popular message and I don't think anyone should feel afraid of it. Yeah I like I should you run on healthcare should run encryption. Yes, of course you should. You should emphasise all those things. May I think the corruption issue is interesting because I just think it leave something off. I think we should talk about trumps, corruption in the ministries, corruption all day long, but we need to make sure every time we talk about it. We connect it to those policies there actually affecting people, lives dagger, if you're talking European Healthcare connected to tax cuts, you connected to all these things are happening. Now, he's he's doing us for him, here's how is hurting like Skype prove it is in the house for fifty dollars a month or whatever his pants for his room of the subway club card any while the meanwhile, the lobbyist, whose house that he's in these rending from got their project rule the EPA and that screwing people over that. You have to finish drawing the line. I know it's like a twelfth order, political issue, but again and again and again makes goes like our biggest trading partner. There, close allies

security and economic and cultural ways, he's rupturing, the relationship day after day we effort, we, I mean I've hired fixed at the foreign minister, had to respond that, like this, inaccurate new support should not serve to question the cooperation between the two countries that the big deal to keep kicking allies in the teeth, for no reason when you're wrong Nicky political purposes. I think that's an area they might save the world point. No, I think it's a big. It's it's a big issue because someday on the line we are going to need allies to work with us on something that has to do with the security of the american people have received in America, people and at some point, they're going to say fuck off, because we have been treated so badly by your prettiest, our vision and political systems they in their running. and him now and that's not just like a foreign policy nerd point: that's gonna hit people at home sort point and also were too so imagine the Trump drama. Dhaka is incredibly important. Immigration is a huge and growing problem that needs to be addressed. The fact.

That we have millions and millions of people who have to live in the shadows in this country as we haven't given them. Any kind of happily realisation is a huge problem right. There are huge immigration problems. We need to address it even trying to address for basically thirty years and now this debate has been reduced to border Wall versus Dhaka, kids, and we can't even get that piece of it done. And that's it. That's a good point is that it is that, is we two small of a debate on every Democrat, cannot be also not be afraid saying. Our immigration system is badly broken and it has been for a long time and we need to fix it somehow, and that includes dog. It includes legal immigration that includes border security, includes like all kinds, interior enforcement, what the FUCK ices doing, which is awful and the whole bunch things and by the way, figuring out away to talk about border security confidently in a way that doesn't abandon the core, compassion and principles of Democrats right. I think right now. Democrats are skittish to even talk about border security at all because it become a tradition,

The border security is going to be part of any answer to this and to finding a new way of somebody has to be in finding a new way to talk about this, where we are extremely critical of ice were extremely critical of policies of her family apart, while five and by the way recognised that there is an argument about american workers who feel as though immigration doesn't help them like finding ways at that to talk about immigration as a way of talking about how to help american workers undocumented people securing the borders All of that into a language that doesn't alienate Democrats who are afraid of people capitulating to trap, I think, is a really hard problem. good luck to the twenty twenty Democrats figuring it up. Did you see that they floated down, came to run customs and border patrol honestly, you will for a second I'm no eyes about getting lies somewhere. I do now very serious. I almost. Why is that? I really think I was joking over the weekend about Lou doves becoming the next treasury secretary, and that seems very plausible stops. Stephen hawking does not seem like he's a good fit, ok,

So thank you, d, Foxen friends, for speeding up the president on that has great. Let's talk about another propaganda outlet Sinclair abroad, turning over the weekend, an editor at dead spend put together a super catchword. thousands of local anchors and new stations owned by Sinclair give the exact same speech that worn viewers about fake news and the danger of certain journalists using their platforms to push their own personal bias. The anchors were ordered to read the speech by Sinclair. Apparently, lot of Sinclair employees were pretty upset. How worrisome is this guy's linearity? Scary, very worrisome? I look. This is a perfect subway propaganda, works even on our own presidency. Handling Fox news is generating these massive controversies when you have Sinclair, which has either

Seventy three hundred ninety three television stations, depending on which our you're reading, that is a big deal, and so, when you have these, when you have Sinclair forcing its anchors to reduce scripted, undercuts trust in news generally, I think that's enormously prominent yeah, it's sort of like a third phase of what's happened. So there is the rise of Fox NEWS, and that happened in plain sight. It grew during the current administration and became a kind of bulwark against that. You know the mainstream media, it was a right wing alternative and then you have this second phase of of it now becoming something that a sort of weapon eyes on Facebook Sinclair what National inquires doing. They are buying up local stations, they are putting things on super

could shelves, and it all is the kind of thing that flies under the radar of journalists and, under the rate are of major publications under the radar of the national conversation is so think over dead spin riot expect them. This call a law on this one in any other part of this is, I think, it's also extremely dangerous in how its hidden the? U turn on Fox NEWS, foxes now. It's conservative liberals. Now we all know what it is. You listen a pod, save America, you know you're getting you know exactly what you're getting at you know exactly you're getting you're getting this, but these things they are stuck between, whether in sport, before there is very, very serious and its own funeral and on the other thing is to local news. Has a conservative bias in that the medium of conservative news it it leans towards covering local crime it leans towards?

a conservative narrative, you never return on local news and it's like systemic poverty in our city. No, it's much more like this is the crime that happened. Here's who did the crime, here's who fought the crime? Here's what happened with the fire. It's very much based on individual act, an individual entire and should be hearing should be scared of this new disease that we can't figure to be scared of this, which we scared of that which plays right into the Trump worldview and as in this little piazza that they force, I wonder to read, is wedged up against a must run segment by former Trump aid Forest Epstein, who is too stupid to work in trumps, White House, surrogate operations who got booted out and then get higher by Sinclair Due essentially produce propaganda, so there taken over the whole broadcast the Boers Epstein ones are real. You should check one I'll. Go. Google one, don't watch more than what you want to watch holding its fastening too, because he is marble health and non charismatic he could not be. on television, but for the favouritism and corpse,

chasm and the need to get a trump acolytes into this role, which is very banana republic. It's very, very developing, like it to be here, like, like a crony guy, being a guy in who shouldn't be on television, because they just needed that guy that spot. The other thing that scary as the day they did, a study of Sinclair stations versus other stations and Sinclair stations are starting to cover national politics. More and more unless local news and that's Heizer now and in the national politics are cover, of course, the stories their choosing. Our stories that have a conservative bent to them loaded at history of again it is in some ways it is more insidious and were foxes doing because by now everyone knows Sean hit the more angry I was people, they know what they're all about and when you, see these anchors that you ve known, entrusted for a long time, and you dont pay a ton of attention to politics, and you just hear them time, but some are more likely to

some unbeliever their say. Thanks Rick. What a great whether report now for an update put on the hat put that Fuckin had your goddamn had or we will come to you fuckin House put on them that get it on we're all wearing. It would just one further point: That's the ankara at the final stage that space for actually here now, but one other piece of this is it's part of a larger store of consolidation in Sinclair's, been able to scoop up stations in part because of adjured pie and what's been going on at the FCC. We ve also seen hedge runs, picking local newspapers and then shrinking down their newsrooms. So sing

we're coming more. National news is actually something a lot of local papers are doing, we're seeing local coverage getting worse and worse, which means state houses. Governors are under much less scrutiny and much more corruption is gonna go unchecked. So I feel, like all of this is part of consolidation in the media. Some of the problem is that has consolidated for ideological purposes, but there's a larger problem of just consolidation, leading to cost cutting and nationalization of news and the lack of coverage of important things in local place. That is true that has arisen. True, but Sinclair is particularly brazen insidious viagra in two thousand, for they were trying to force sixty two tv stations to run basically a hit job documentary on John Kerry in his anti war activities that, because it was exposed, I dont believe ever ran, but it was like agitprop yet so these I don't give a shit about the attention is being paid to them. Yet, hopefully we can offer them financial years

So what can we do number one? Obviously we are going to buy up a ton of local news stations here, crooked media S, about that should fix that. I just got one. Oh it or did I miss. I mean I thought of those are here: the viewing editing congressional candidate Amy Mcgrath in Kentucky is no longer running ads on Sinclair own television station. In her district, you know like the principal there, but I'm not sure, that's that effective nervous. In the same way, I do think you're issues not getting her message out as well as in the same way, makes me nervous and people when much a little side by deleting facebook you like, if the bunch liberals delete Facebook, there's still a billion people on Facebook and then they're not getting any thing for myself. I worry about this a little bit, but I don't know if you like us, have ineffective, look, there's three local news stations in her district in Kentucky or for she's just getting like

for her quarter of less ads. You know she is so that stuff, but I guess that I would say I'm less interested in democrats deciding to not reach Sinclair viewers than I am about, maybe a larger campaign to make sure companies don't advertise yeah on Sinclair to me makes more sense. I mean, and also some the on the localization themselves. I read right before we started that the Madison Wisconsin Station, what Sinclair Station tweeted that we did not run the peace we will not, the script, and I wonder how many and now it's not a position that I think a lot of individual journalists and anchors at these stations can take on their own because they have contracts and in other, be fired. But together as a is an entire station been together. You might be able to do that now, and so I daresay Europeans would be helpful if I was correct that- and I do think a viewer Ladys have yours can put pressure on advertisers, they can call their local station. So there are there are even their speaking of boycotts

advertisers are fleeing from esteem journalist. Lord Ingram Show, and she takes week, long break from the network, advertisers have been pulling out. Recent she mocked David Hog seventeen year old school, shooting survivor for not getting into his top college. Very classy we guessing, but this boycott Brian Stilted CNN this week. Said. I am personally pretty wary of this. I think it's dangerous. My view is: let's not shut down anyone's right to speak, let's meet their comments with more scum Hon Brian, but for the first amendment does not protect your ability to host a tv show government can't a bridge your rights free speech. I think kids. Where should absolutely vote with their wallet yet to my company. Aren't we share the conscience mighty one? That is if we lost a bunch of advertisers on pods in Amerika, I wouldn't think who he's angry mobs that are shutting down a right to free speech. I'd say,

damn what did we say that was so bad that we lost his advertisers? Maybe we should figure out how to a puff should not even I will pass. I greatly fear that enough. I greatly we just take the head. I agree in this case. I think that's right think it's ridiculous decide that a group of people coming together to say Lord Ingram comments are beyond the pale and we think combination, support that and getting us companies to withdraw. That's that is free speech at work. That's how it works. Obviously, this is not a first a minute you. It is a free speech issue that is true. Boycotts are about saying. We don't want to hear your kind of speech. That being said, that's a good thing or let out her speech right. It's a speech, fighting speech, but could there be examples where boycotts where you know you end up with a situation where liberals are saying we can support any of this and then can service, and we can support every this and then you end up with a situation where companies that you know what we don't advertising aiding political, because we don't want that of HEAT and then all of a sudden there's, you know less support for political conversation

but the ears of the market by political half life in remembering news is like eight seconds like someone pointed this out on Twitter for the Iraq war, Republicans were encouraging us all to boycott. The country of France is aid in support of the worst war. I history so, like I'm totally fine with the tit for tat nature of boycott, I also think that this is like capitalism at work. here at some point. If companies all decided a blanket like we're not going to advertise on political issues anymore, some companies going like you know, if there's a whole audience out there, that's listening to those bulrushes, that's probably fits with the audience that would actually buy product as well as our service, so we're gonna break that ruin go. Do it. I just always think that when people so make the argument that Brian Stelter makes it is inappropriate, because the thing worrying about is not happening. What we do at our house, people going on television attacking children and we have consumer saying please don't support this. That seems pretty good to me their worried about what, if this leads down a path where there so many boycotts in its it

but that's not what's happening. Where that this isn't gonna lose system of way seems to be. Quite I don't know I mean like Alex Jones, makes what I read: some are fifty million dollars a year, white peddling, v, Minas most crazy conspiracy theories. Don't go there with that joke say more. What do you think? What are some of his techniques he says like the most like, you know, he's a museum talked about sandy hook as a hoax. He talked about a lot in Europe consumers being crisis actors. I mean there are true a vile, horrific people out there and because of the nature of the internet. These days, people are more likely to find and believe these heads of a conspiracy, so I'd like to see a whole. voting with your pocketbook possible. Well now work. our sponsors, will we ride back room with Tommy's interview with community activist, bury actually

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huge, I getting justice. Actually it sets real. I feel move that can kind of have a ripple effect nationally. If there is this big high profile case- and we have this young man that gets justice, I mean I think that it will actually stop a lot of them. Killing, because I think what happens with these police killings. A reason why we have How many so often hit, because no one is held accountable to no one is challenge. No one has ever been convicted. I think you only have pretty much one conviction with the Walter Scott CASE and in that situation with Walter, Scott the officer I mean I want to believe it was a mistrial and they had to kind of do some other stuff and finally, he pleaded guilty or something to that nature. But the process of getting conviction is almost impossible and there been some high profile cases where you look at the evidence. From my standpoint or anyone else who watches Isabel there's, no way that this officer is

away with table shoot nine out of ten, I mean they always get away with So what this is gonna do, I think, is going to show our commitment to the community our mental, that we're not gonna, tolerate races believe we're not gonna, tolerate police corruption, we're not gonna tolerate of folk said supposed to protect and serve abusing their power and use excessive force. What is unnecessary, so I look at this as a national moment. that all eyes are looking to Sacramento. We have an opportunity to do so. the world. This is how it supposed to be done. Very

we're a town on meeting in Sacramento segment of City hall, and you encourage folks there to point their cell phones at the mayor in the City Council and ask a pretty simple question: does this look like a gun to you, your your echoing the claim by police? That's a fine Clark was armed when he was not, he was holding a cell phone. Has anyone the police? The politicians actually answered that question. How does a cell phone look like a gun in this situation? I think no one answered some foolish rhetoric that police made up to come The bottom line is this police have sole for often said things to us than have been lies, and we just kind of agree with it, because it a police right and hold theory of I feared for my life. He God nor he had something that look.

Like a god or whatever else they like to do is conduct, creates a cover up, just think about it. This isn't a video of it says: heads up got good God automatically that creates that narrative that wall, this guy had a gun, why you got killed and then, when you find out, the reality was beaten, have anything and so what I said that moment, I just want to clearly have the council look at what We are saying, stop pretending that were idiots. There is no way that is self. looks like a god. That's a lie. I dont know what kind state of mind, really kind of confused opposite was taken at that moment. If they will just Abdel been eight is decided, they say they wanted to kill a moving target, which was a black man. They still do not have to be baffles me because everyone wants to make this argument that he was doing something wall and lets say if he was content it

not create another argument, so you're telling be that now that a misdemeanor is due for execution, so it always tells me the value of black lives is almost minimum to nothing. You should not be executed for misdemeanor defense defence. If that's what he did Ed from all likely. This he'd probably didn't do anything from the video. What I saw is a young man go into his home and knocking on is grandparents door and getting killed. What a worry about it's got executed at his own parents house, it so they win. This was the first time you you ve talked about these issues and in twenty four on after my brown was killed in Ferguson. You said that Sacramento is one national moment. from being Ferguson. What did you mean by that? You are doing your home, work like that, because I think that somebody TAT We try to pretend that what is now is something that just happened like for some submits its people would be like

the racial incidents that we have a good looking, Donald Trump, it's like all, my goodness Donald Trump, greater races of no America has a leading edge of racism. That's why? What guy Or things like this happens it in our communities. We were up in arms because we don't want to look at the reality of what we live in and were black people live in existing is this reality of police have hunted down for several years? soon. Centuries historically, think about it. The origin police are slow catchers right. It wasn't that it came from a community deed. They were catching slaves. So when you add doctorate in that type of hatred it only caught of parallels through all of the other scopes of history. When you look at me, how they treated a black community. It's never been a cohesive relation, I don't know where anyone can not a that up. It's always bid us against them. So in two thousand fourteen, when I sat There- and I just kind of gave

thumbs insight to our folks in the also we could be because Sacramento likes to play this idea progression and we want to be this progressive city, I say We have the opportunity to do something to prevent a tragic incident. Involvement We have a cap what's Default Clark, but they fell on deaf ears to doubt the sixteen Joseph. Came, and now here we are two thousand eighteen. I bigger story than the Joseph Band story, so it was like Harry Sacramento, we have a problem. I know that you don't want to deal with the problem, but this is gonna blow. for this corruption and our police departments there racism and our police department. There's total bias in police departments, and I think that folks, I wanna buy into that reality, because we want to assume that these police are up above the law that they can make right decisions, but with all of the constant mistakes that they make an even bigger mistakes. I think that they feel like, since I have protected by the police bill of since our protected by the union, and since I have a dossier that could care two lessons of prosecuting us or break

charges will be. Ok, yeah, I mean you make up This is not new and systemic coming, we think to mere rice. My brow Eric Garner, Freddy Gray, outen Sterling's to fund Clark it goes on, is on and on and on, and so was you think dead. We You are going to be exempt from this moment. We ve got every major city, a rule city in America going through this trial. tribulations. Are we gonna TED their that no issue. I think that was poppies. It was very arrogant for individuals in a city council to believe that they did some things, but they didn't do a back about a thanks to protect people, because, if you think about it, after I had said that the two thousand forty two thousand fifteen we ve had literally, I want to believe it what he too shootings of honor folk by the police and we ve had not want conviction, no prostitute,

so you trying to tell me that all these people that got killed there all justify that to be a kind of weird. What changes do you want the government to make it a federal or state levelled at to stop the police from killing unarmed African Americans mostly will first of all thought fortunate. There is a lot of the cake, a k members who hung up their hoods aid. They took badges. That's facts: they only take back his they there their office. So you know the leading of systemic racism institutional. Racism is so far stretched into somebody different areas, but because we do have an opportune, Since we know that is out of the bag. I feel like what the police bill of rights need to be dismantled and we need to conditionally, as a community look into some of those things too caught a process. How much power? Please, please do have the police is such a military lies force nowadays, these protests

We ve been habit, it's literally an army against civilians, with nothing except their voices, their hearts and their courage, so deftly feel that we don't need our ability to realise peace, police officers, move in and roman our streets as well, as I think they should be The toy drug testing, when fire armies is let go long, lethal or or lethal. I believe that when we hear about these incidents, we need to know what to say. The border police officers in there is so much abuse. Are police officers with it as far as their own self and and kind of implementing the abuse that they have done with their spouse of it. If you do, the research A lot of police officers in reactive, lotta people arrested charged with domestic violence. There's a lot of police officers have actually done drugs, namely once stairway,

so I can't just sit there and say: oh well, these guys at work these long hours, some underpaid right and they deal with these traumatic, not gonna, sit there and say these folks don't deal which Roma, but they deal with traumatic incidents on a daily that your tongue, show me that they don't need to be drug tested, they don't need to get checked or as well as a psych eval. I think that it needs to be Angela find out what their minds is that so there's so many different component, but I definitely believe state regulations with the probability as well as looking into the police unit, is cut out to have happen at state level, local level. We can do so much. I understand that they want to try to process this thing as hey. You guys have a black police chief, but he's a black face and a white institution and he's just come on and he's been there for about seven months, so the corruption that he's planning races and that he's just and doctor himself in it's something that's going to take

Gunnar then, a few wants to cut of a clean out and with the police, you he'd, be it so strong. You got these police officers. That literally could do so much and they will be supported. What is it like for the kids? You work with you grow up in Sacramento who, after an incident like this, look at the police, not as protectors but someone that is a threat to them. What is it like growing fearing that people are supposed to protect. You have made a gives you an attitude that I dont like you. I hate you haven't even if. I don't know you, you have a badge, I don't like you, it's funny, because happens is, I think, police, a great relationship with a lot of black youth when it's either when aside the come on, bring a bicycle when inside the com in sugar, the ball when it's time to kind of play that role, because that young person is it Aggressor. Yet, but it seems like something is loss of the equation. without young person gets at age There's no longer those moments where you see that police off

so, taking the time to try to discuss or talk or or just you know say to understand, This, your purse is almost like shoot to kill and I think that's deafening. It is defining on how the stairway types it the biased that they have. It creates this complication, and a relationship where these police, This is our say to themselves that we want to have. This is strongly you put a community but then at every time were above it gets aggressive. War movement becomes a tense. you barely have police officers not falling back it at a doing things the right way. You costly had this aggression that the police officers take as far as with that aggressor. So when you have to aggressive folks going out each other, it's a recipe for disaster salon. Look at policing. Of course, there has to be a whole change of training that has to go with ball, but I don't even think training is enough, because I think that these guys they come from different place but you got a guy that comes from Tennessee to work in Sacramento. You don't know that

Joe Sacramento Europe say you know that to Tennessee and, however, they treat or deep blue, people tend to see how ya do stuff may not be the way Sacramento does stuff. So you got that attitude cubby disagreeable, that economy creates that unfair. It add toxic activists fear that kind of creates moments like stuff all Clark yeah. So after the parking cheating there's been this intense focus on on the national epidemic of gun violence, urban marches, they ve been very active in the media. How to activists make sure that the issue of police shootings are part of this conversation, and that were being honest about the role that right who plays in the killing of these african american men, we don't ever want to be honest by re, Psmith we'd all come on. It's it's, this old biggest, documented by white privilege of white privilege matters in Amerika black.

No, I mean I salute. Ojo warriors hey salute, but we have been talking about. God violates whether its community gun violence, whether it's you know, police God, violence in a black communities for decades and waste. we ve got a garden fed. You guys will be all right. This is what we ve guide. We ve got in black all black lot. That's the directive. We are well what about black on black? Why there's no such thing as a clear that out there's no such thing as black or black. Why? Because we never say white a white line. We never see Asian on Asia, the only thing about it is, creates a directive on unfair narrative that black people on only people killing each other right. But everybody does that's it. You could do the records if you do the data that that folks viable comfortable talking to each other about that they know so this data young people are doing as good as great as it may be nationally. But why are we getting that support when it comes to black people getting killed by police? And why is it the simple fact when people go out there and protest now, they're thugs, their riders in that anti

educated there, everything else, and that is why don't we get that kind of press to show our plight of trying to make sure Why is it always that it's us evil odd characteristic on a bear at uncivil people, wrongly the streets trotted disrespect police? We would not be in the streets of Please didn't kill black people, we would not be the streets at police who kill black people got convicted This has been on american problem and if you want to sit there and kind of middle buys the fact that we're living in this this, where in two thousand eighteen was still talking about race, were still talking about police brutality. All these things my ancestors lived, live to edit fought and where it was like pretty much eagle at one particular time to kill black people and now its deep legal, but it still legally habited. It frustrates me because you can. have a white male kill. Seventy people come out and get handcuffed at even officers be afraid.

be afraid to go in a him. Had he in jail he's going to get his due process. You can get his day in court and a black person can wear a hoodie. A black person cannot skittles. A black person can have a fake gun, a black can't drink in Arizona right at b, the neighbourhood goal for your license? Cell cds, whatever be with their family, whatever knock on the door to ask for help and they still get executed by police track? That's me. My friend is absolute crazy this and if anybody who, because I'm on Twitter and I are costly, gettys, these races rogues come in and try to put a spit on the staff at court case. I went. People sit there and tell me that he was breaking the law tell me how the Baltic and how sick and how its and how odd compassionate folks are with black lives. Would it pertains to a young man who got killed if he was doing the quiet? It would have been a misdemeanour

so the volume of us having to change the idea of how people look at black folks is we. Need a card shot. That's the only way police need to start being charged and they need to be held accountable. That's the only way, ideas and folk will stop using the law on their side and created heinous acts. So since this horrific shooting you in black lives matter and a whole bunch of protesters sacrament, I've done a really incredible job of of keeping this story in the news raising awareness, including by stopping traffic or preventing an mba game from happening. What else should we expect to see at a Sacramento to keep awareness up and in how can people listening help? You guys pushed to get the justice you're looking for well, I think they're Ba what was the best one. I think

an epic historical moment that I feel that somebody will copycat eventually, not think they're. Folks are gonna, pay attention and they will be talking about this for years to come, because what we did is we intervene is not only the fat, but what we did is we took money from a infrastructure right- and I say all connected right to privacy. The order is cool, but I'm not some say that he has time to white supremacy, but his assistant right we're all in this system that all rely. It is now white supremacy is the one percent is right so that moment that we do, and it was so organic how we shut down Sacramento. It was creating his legs for the people to see if we just take back right, take back what is ours. She's the power, we could shut down their systems so that

just kind of like a preview to be honest with you, when you have a place that seats seventy thousand plus and it was less than a thousand concessions sands merchandise restaurants right you still gotta pay those people working, you still have to refund. If that was in an economic punching a face, I dont know what was, and I think that, right there it spoke volumes to what the people will do to say there is a problem with this system. The system is not for everyone. This system has obento pressing people, so I think when you talk about what's next there's so many different things, cuz we're just not coming from that aspect of okay, we're just going to protest and which going to annoy folks or we just want to protest and just wanted ya. We want to protest, it be a cop space cats, it it's a fact that we know that they'll be systemic changes that needs to have

a sap, as well as policies changed the policing. So, by raising this awareness by be talking Talkin to you, if we did a pool of like that, We did to go TAT Day straight yesterday was party to only day that we did a protest. Some folks will celebrate, face it down to white body. I wasn't. I would add, is gonna like good levy chill out, but I dig it opens up the idea of what really change could be at changes in comfortable the changes necessary. So I feel like what is to come. It depends on what is actually the police gonna say: what's that peat eagerness echoed this, much more than a story that is yet to come out. You see the autopsy in how we move from with the opt out. We just buried a young man, so now it's waited for the day you or do you oppressor, you gonna put some charges there what you gonna do what you gonna sit

what store? Are you going to flip April tenth? I know the chief of police have to give a report on the city. Council members, especially the mayor, has some questions. So a lot of this stuff evolves around. What is going to be there that I do know that we're going to continue to sure all the d, a let you know, she's listening to what anybody or a correspondence on listening to it. We are making it known tat. She would not be re elected if there's a mission that we are all taking all its community organizers at folks and on the ground. We are making sure that she does not get reelected. That's on top of our Christmas list. She asked to pay very I Yes, thank you for doing what you do in fighting for change here and in talking to us today. I just want to say one more thing: dissidents, folks and others. English tat, do what a support I say Did you to share the story? Continue to check the white privilege Somebody's folks have continue to be capacity because I but he deserves to lose a child like that. The shop

I was twenty two years old, regardless of what is done in the past or what he might have been involved with. He had a operating aid to change. He he deserve more, like that. Just twenty two, his babies deserve to have a father. You got two kids that no longer have their father did. You can never come back from that, so let's analytical work, a passion and understanding that you have your pro police. I get it, but no life should be hook it over thinking that they had a cell phone right added to save time, which rating these police officers and we want to feel protected. Everyone should feel protected, not just one side of people. It should be everyone's protected, so continue to share the story, continue to have the tough conversations and continue to check racism and punch it right in the face. I like that. It's good advice. Thank you again, talk with us today about pleasure, appreciated and hope you gotta get by their work. Is budgetary square space me

get things you can do with square spirits. Is beautiful websites turn your good into a new website like Arcola: come showcase your work, sell products and services of all kinds, announce an upcoming event or special project. We're gonna find out this is the first add ever written by a computer, that's possible. It seems it was like you know their those paintings of people that that our artificially intelligence paintings, I didn't get a look kind of like people, but in their weird in some way. That's this think it dream it may get with square space. Squirrels does is by giving you be we'll templates by worthless designers, temples that are optimized for mobile right out of the box, powerful e commerce functionality, if you sell anything online and built in search optimization, make it yourself easily create a website by herself make it stand out, stand out with a beautiful website.

the squares based icon for free trial when you re launch, use the offer good crooked to save ten percent off you first purchase of a website domain squares based our com, promo code, crooked and, of course, of course, POD save America's brought to you, our friends by the catch up the catch up. It is the fastest and easiest way to pay people back to get paid back in return. I want our entire psychology. Maybe people should switch, but they dont have to. He doesn't care. Do it? Don't do it when I'm carefully and uneven care for you dollars or five dollars ghost amongst inaction or sagacity whenever I would like you going to do it on many demand anymore, I'm gonna be he's going to be contrary near chain don't change the second we have this conversation week after week after week, and I think that you think that

just keep happening that somehow it as a scene from Groundhog? There were like you like, if I'd late in the evening, they please just as you think that I'm just gonna be here doing this for you forever, so that when you get around to it, I'll just be here waiting to tell you what to do, but you know what I'm sick of it Anyway, you put in the code pod save five dollars goes to you. Five dollars goes to moms demand action, raising a lot of money for the gun, controlled movement. So please we all know the cash out today to make him ask again on the positive side, we have the host of cricket media's with friends like these honorary Cox. Otto welcome back to the programme. It is good to be back missed you guys, immunize. I see you every day and slack, but it's not the same sort of civilized or two. We do know you been super this whole just got the message you and your suit back. What do you think? A slap Erin

I don't know I mean as someone who work from home like slackers, like the closest thing I have to water cooler, so sort it makes me feel not invisible, which is nice, but you know it is also probably bad too, like look at the computer for it. Action see patchy. I have not been at sea pact this entire time. I've been thinking about C pack, almost this entire time, which is kind of sad and scary, but I think that The whole team put a lot of that. To get you, some really really happy with how the documentaries shaped up for you are, is cutting off the second season of with friends like these, which is very exciting, to tell us about what you are trying to achieve with. The second season was different: what's new well. I think the second season over kicking off with something that I hope we're gonna do more of which is this. Radio documentary, which I did a little bit of in the first season, went to go talk to people standing in line.

Her Hilary book event, and I also went to a Trump rally. As you may recall, that episode was also pretty intense. I do want to talk to people across the ideological spectrum, but seems like what I'm really good at is talking to people that I disagree with, so probably will do some more of that. I was thinking about going to maybe one of the Eba Jellicoe conventions were actually agree on a lot of stuff with those folks, but probably not politics in a very curious about them as well, and I think that this season we're gonna, really do more with the audience. Actually, we have throughout the last season, featured listener questions, people submitting questions about relationships and politics of the body. Or email, and I beg you to do more of that cause. I think I mean just to judge by the response I get on twitter. The response I get on the street, the responses I get b e mail.

people are really hungry for a not going say cuz, I don't have answers, but I think they're hungry for conversation about conversation, maybe or how to have conversations theirs king guidance on how to kind of stumble through the world we live in now, which has a lot of places to stumble weather, is talking about policy differences, politics, differences with someone who you know you disagree with, or the more subtle stuff that comes up around. You know, privilege and in her sexuality and whiteness, and what too you and say in situations where you don't feel comfortable and you first spinet Sipa. that's the first about c back and you talk today, wireless well right. Yet in Can episode is about C pack as well? Hopefully we're still putting it together,

a little bit more looking forward about what might come from sea pact. This was a real kindest postcard from it as it is today, which was a real surprise to me: May I tell the story and the episode, but I've been going to see pack for over ten years, and I have always found the people there to be united. Disagree with them, but there is something kind of noble about their misguided. ambitions in away like they were idealists, and I really identify with idealists and Are they ve always been racist there as well and sexist there as well? This past year was the first to see Peck. I've been too in the Trump era, and I didn't have to look for the racists and the sexes. Do think that its drawing different people, or do you think it's Trump has permission for the same p?

to tell you more about themselves at needs. A little of both. I do think it's different people. I think their different kinds of young people are attracted to the conservative movement right now. I think the conservative movements the past ten years or so. For one thing: there is a real libertarian aspect to it: the right, Paul era of american conservatism, which didn't ever get like. You know he never the much steam. But if you want to see pack, you would have sworn who's. Gonna be the next president. You know, Paul and ran Paul. One c packs holes year after year after year into like I've, always found something kind of, like the guy said, sir of misguided bits, about libertarians leg, these all man, they believe in the market, its clear mayo and usually there can a gamer types, you know who do speech and debate in those guys I went to high school with, and actually really you know where my friends in high school, so I felt like I understood them and

he's guys might be speech, debate, gamer types as well, but there is a cruel streak to them that I do not remember from my generals of attendees in the past year, no joy or if you like you, see that online all the time. It's like the alt right as their reason for things like triggering liberals in my they're everywhere, but it's not like wolves amazing. The episode to me not like you sought out just people. Magua hats, with like divisive rhetoric on assignment you, you pulled a young woman over to talk to you cause. She was dressed cool and seemed young and interesting and all of a sudden she was telling you wildly ray. this things about how we want to wait. Sewerage I mean I am my jaw dropped. Listening to this I almost wish. I gotta run the entire interview with her, because so she was dressed. Like a riot girl, which was my jam

back in the day like I totally had some of those same. You know pieces of clothing and my wardrobe. When I was a kid and so I pulled her aside and and before I turn them phone. She actually did. This thing you're, like oh, I'm, not very articulate out when I don't know. If I want to do this like I always you know our screw things up and I actually her there's little feminist pep talk about. Down about yourself. You know you can do this. A picnic, probably mistake on his eyes. Only those I gotta give yet have about money right, I'll, show up ripple linear. Rice doll meets the Lenny letter that we got one girl. This is an area that stuff and she was. She was a racist. No, not just a racist. She was see their white supremacist and touch her young muslim woman was a pro muslim ban like I wasn't pulling people side do necessarily had

hats on. I was just kind of like somewhat randomly. I'm wanted make sure to get a lot of women right, and I still got the answers that I got an it was profoundly disturbing. I have not been so disturbed by sea pack ever and this was right up there with going to a trump. Rarely was a trump really mean it was it. That is what has happened to see back, sometimes the hardest Muggah huh find is the one that people were on the inside. I want to ask about a story in the news today, partly because you speak to so many trump voters. Trump supporters. Jonathan I wrote a cover piece in the New York magazine and headline is corruption? Not Russia is trumps greatest liability and basically says you know trumps core proposition of the public was a business deal if he became president, he would work to make them rich member. We all know

You know I'm up in breeding my whole life, but now I'm going to be greedy for you and you know, chase argument is now that's the deep corruption of this administration has been exposed and is being exposed every single, hey, that this might actually be a liability for him among people who voted for him. What do you think about that argument?. He's still you let that thirty five percent and are now yet Milner. I think that's right there can it be admire his gripped. No, even when it doesn't directly benefit them. I mean there's just a shamelessness to it that this kind of appalling and then on top of that, just to go back to see back there is just virulent racism at the bottom of a lot of us. I mean straight up white supremacy and he can drift all he wants

long as he is making them feel good about hating people of color and people who are different than they are. You know I'll do to be two people there we're gonna? U know chant his name, it's terrifying. I mean this is how authoritarian regimes were three. This is how fascism works. His corruption is, is a value added for some of them, but the real thing. that they admire, and then they want is that permission structure to engage in their worst instincts Do you think this will have an effect with some people who either stayed home or were kind of reluctant truck voters yeah? I always think about what is the thirty five percent that I'm sure were represented pretty well at sea pack, and then there's like the from

thirty, five to forty six percent. You know where he and vengefully up his popular wrote. Margarine, whatever was more fortys, and I wonder about those people, the you know: Trump, not the trump fans but sort of the Trump voters, and these might have in people who, like Bernie in the primary or they might be third party voters in TWAIN. Sixteen or, like you, said people who ended up saying home, I do wonder if the corruption message with them has some pull. I think it does, but you know there's is I've been listening to? Let him had cast about actually social psychology, mainly in a lot about why people disagree and why people believe what they do and there's just a ton of socialist? and that shows that people dig in on their beliefs like that's how we're wired, basically like we are wired, you know to recognise patterns and to be fearful, and when you put those things together, you get kind of conspiracy, things and you get digging in and doubling down and that's what's

none of these people who already believe him act. Never want to admit they were wrong and they'll just keep going further down the rabbit hole with him, rather than admit they were wrong. Well, that's suddenly look happy spring guy. We are very much looking forward to season two of with friends like these and a first episode is up. Now it see pack par one that I guess so everyone go check it out girls into it. It's it's address its grant disturbing buddy credibly whether yet be ready have some sort of self care ready for yourself? You know afterwards be no fluffy animal of some kind of bath, but yeah like definitely good stuff or on a wheel, Tartu, odor thanks

thanks Anna Marie Cox and Barry Axios for joining us today. That's all we have will be in Clearwater Thursday night and that pod will be out first thing Friday morning, so I can be downloaded from that jetski by everyone, yeah.