Jon, Jon, and Tommy discuss the renewed FBI investigation into Brett Kavanaugh, Jeff Flake's change of heart, and the shifting politics of Supreme Court nominations. Then Jon F. talks to Ana Maria Archila about confronting Jeff Flake in an elevator and the importance of direct engagement.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Welcome to POD save America, I'm John Feffer, I'm John mother and tell me the store today.
You'll hear our interview with Anna Maria Archilla, one of the women who confronted Jeff Flake on Friday in Washington right before he called for a one week. Fbi investigation into allegations against Brett Kavanaugh will also be talking about the investigation itself.
The debate over Kavanaugh's nomination is going to mean for the elections. Did you November discuss with her at all the fact that she's, the first person ever to hold an elevator door and have a conversation in a way that wasn't horrible?
Oh that's too bad. You call back, but I didn't need to because you made the joke anyway. So there was a space for the joke. Can we get to the news?
first we're going to talk about love it or leave how we have a little. So we like to call loverly. We had an awesome lover to leave it in studio. We were joined by Guy Branum, Lewisville, Tell Achila Hughes, great guests. Only problem is, when you say, Guy Brandon Next to Lewisville tell someone is going to bring up Glenn close and you're, not gonna, be able to stop it from
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The Senate's final floor vote on Brett Kavanaugh, as nomination to the Supreme Court has been delayed a week to allow for an FBI investigation into credible allegations the cabin a sexually assaulted women in the past. Initially, the White House gave the FBI list of just for people to question.
Who they reportedly already conducted. Interviews with
On Monday, the White House said the FBI has been authorized to interview, whoever they see fit so long as
complete the investigation by Friday, when Mitch Mcconnell has promised a final vote on Kavanaugh
guys. Why would the White House initially limit the scope of the investigation if there is so confident in Kavanaghs innocence? What was going on there hadn't thought about it that way, it's almost as if they are less interested in finding out what happened and more being able to show something to Jeff Flake that Jeff Flake can call something so that they can
his vote this week, for I would like to note that it says a lot about the state of our politics in in twenty eighteen that Jeff Flake asking the FBI
do the absolute bare minimum to get to the bottom of a very, very credible by the White House. His own admission allegation of sexual assault about a future Supreme Court nominee is treated as a heroic act that doesn't seem
heroic in any way to me. That seems like the obvious thing you would do the bare minimum the Behrman well also the whole thing get your sixty minutes interview now, once
once they all were forced to go along with Jeff Flake's plan for a one week delay the previous days
Vince. Look all the more ridiculous yet making this about the performance of two people on
to determine whether or not somebody belongs on the Supreme Court. Denying that the idea of suggesting
the idea of a delay is somehow giving into a democratic dirty trick, all of it
Graham losing his fucking shit, then by the time
next day, and they lost Jeff flake. They were just for it and the fact that they turned out to have been for it tells you that
all of that should have happened before the hearing
right, and it also argues against the republican theory of the case here, which is that this entire thing is a democratic smear job, because they're just want a whole,
the open long enough to make sure we get past them.
Elections and then take it because Chris Coons, who Democrat from Delaware, who works with flake to call for this extra week, was basically like
All we want is a week we're not trying to do what you say, we're trying to do. We just want
destination, and then we will give you your vote. Two thoughts on that. One doctor Bassi Ford raised these disconcerting allegations before
Kevin. I was nominated Supreme Court, so we know this wasn't some democratic dirty trickery to Accius floated a recommendation by the White House today to hold open the seat till two thousand and twenty. If Kavanaugh doesn't get confirmed
they like the politics and so yeah we're going to talk about that again as they're just massive massive hypocrites. So back to the FBI. Investigation like
it was confusing. Reading these reports over the weekend it felt like
the FBI, didn't have clear guidance and that they were letting the press know that to send a message to the White House and then Trump would then tweet. I want this to be. You know incredible, credible, an investigation as we can
but if they can only interview these four individuals that you named earlier like that is a white washing if they can't follow up on Doctor Ford's claim that she ran into Mark judge at a Safeway, and she can't figure out record some Safeway about whether he worked there at the time to corroborate it. That's
ridiculous but a it, it does sound like it's pushing a direction where they're going to do more and more data that b, as in a let the investigation take it where it takes them, but they're not gonna like open up. If they found some banking crime in his past. They wouldn't then dig into that right and of course, someone was lying here, because NBC reported that the White House was let
the scope rush job. What has to be perfect? Terry responded? By being no absolutely not we're just letting the Senate do what they do and then, as you know, to Tommy like
Conway and others over the weekend, we're basically like no, no, no, we don't
the investigation at all. We know that it was at least limited initially, because
over the basically on Sunday night there was a story from in the new Yorker from Jane Mayer,
running Pharaoh, detailing all the different ways that potential witnesses tried to reach out to the FBI and basically couldn't get through Elizabeth Fraser, high school friend of Mark Judge reset to the FBI. But
No response a classmate of Deborah Ramirez is who said he was a hundred percent certain that he heard the story about Kavanagh assaulting her a few days after it happened tried to reach out. He had to end up calling the tip line. Is you said there were reports? The FBI couldn't even contact the Safeway. That Mark judge worked at two and verify that he was employed at the time
Doctor Ford said she contacted him. They did try to limit the investigation. Well, first of all, they have limited the investigation.
What does the Asian is limited as limited time limit? Has a time limit and and like we should all just. This is ridiculous compromise. This is a life time appointments.
They could be there for forty years and they've already decided that they can only he can
be disqualified. If you can find it in six days, like it's, a game show right like it's super mark,
sweep for crimes but the, but even even by that standard. I think the truth is we just don't know every person every person refuting the idea that they have tried to limit the scope is a world famous liar,
so I think it seems like it's probably somewhere in the middle, whether they tried to limit it and then had to walk back or left some limits in place that give them the ability to claim there aren't limits. I just don't think we know
Why do we think they? Finally relented, I mean clearly Jeff Flake had them in a position where they had no choice to flake flake, not only changed his mind in one against his previous public statement that he is going to vote for Kavanaugh, but he called Collins and Murkowski, and he works a bunch of Democrats, so they wouldn't have had the votes on the floor. If Mcconnell
tried to call it on Friday, like they had planned. So they had to do this. They had no other choice. What have we learned so far since the investigation was expanded and sort of held for another week here about Bro?
I don't know that we learn this, but there's more and more evidence corroborating the claims that Brett Kavanaugh was a sloppy drunk a frequent drunk. Maybe if I
or belligerent drunk today, we learned that he was
questioned by police after a bar fight in nineteen. Eighty five at bar fight that his classmates said he star
did because Captain Ha Miss
some random guy at a bar for the lead singer of Ub40, which is for kids out there.
Reggae band, you probably don't like and then through
the guy, so
one who the fuck gets in a fight after you
be forty concert. It's like reggae is not really fighting music, too. We know
Brett Kavanaugh was like drunk a lot in
kind of a kind of a
belligerent guy and also trump trumpet. His press conference today talked about Kavanaghs drinking in high school is if he had an alcohol,
problem. It was really pretty remarkably different in tone. So again we this confirms what we knew at that
which was a Kavanaugh. Did everything he could to cover up high to lie about his drinking for the committee
new argument from conservatives is that you know Democrats are my,
moving the goal posts by urging the FBI to investigate Kavanaghs drinking and lying
Why is him being having a drinking problem relevant to the case it does in college? Well, it's it's certainly relevant because it's part of the fact pattern of the at at least two claims of sexual assault, but but separate even from that, you know, there's a strain of argument now among conservatives, which is, can you listen talking about throwing I set up bar? Do you talk about how much a kid drank in high school? We we don't care about that. Don't care about that at all! It is the fact that Brett Kavanaugh lied under oath repeatedly as a means of diffusing and refuting claims that he drunkenly assaulted women on multiple.
And as part of his refuting of those stories, he made pretty incredible claims about his behavior that he never blacked out or had to piece together, memories that devil's triangle
drinking game that he couldn't drink
during the week because he had work the next day. You know those high school kids that can have a beer
too, because they have work in the morning, even though on his calendar on July first, which is the date that the FBI should look into it's a
Thursday night, and he said you know,
giving skis with the boys at Timmy's or whoever, with pj and squee and Mark Judge in the rest of the crew. So he he-
but that his own calendar refuted refuted his allocation. You have you have a bunch of what are ultimately trivial. Lies lies about what he did when he was drunk lies about what he did
he was in high school lies about who we hung out with, but they are part of. What is to me seems
a bigger light, which is the kind of person he is yeah. The kind of person who's respectful of women, the kind of person who wouldn't do that hey. So it's this mix of these trivial and big lies, which is why his his behavior in call
in Highschool matter so much. If you're going to look me in the eye and tell me that beach week, Ralph Club means you threw up from spicy food, I don't think you deserve to be a judge in small claims court like
we all know those people that lie about little things to our face and everyone hates them, because they're not trustworthy, they're, not honest with you, they're, not real, and this guy is going to define. You know like set the course legally for the country for four decades
and this is why this is important, because
you no longer have to ask yourself what Brett Kavanaugh was like or did thirty five years ago. You just have to ask yourself what Brett Kavanaugh has been like through this confirmation process, and the answer to that question is a very openly Partizan liar yes, yeah, yes, there's this trick, also, that's being played, which is you start from this question? Was Brett Kavanaugh, honest, there's only one answer that question: if you're being intellectually seer,
yes, no, he was not honest, but then you take a step away from that and you go. Did Brett Kavanaugh commit perjury? Well, that's a little trickier, I'm not a lawyer. What's technically perjury doesn't meet the threshold of perjury, but that's not even enough! Then you take another step which is: do you have evidence to prove that Brett Kavanaugh committed perjury? Now, all of a sudden, we're trying to produce evidence to refute lies that he gave on the stand, the standard versa pre.
Court justice shouldn't be did they lie so thoroughly and repeatedly and leave enough of a paper trail that we can diss positively prove that he committed perjury? It's not supposed to be close.
He's supposed to be a judge. Just goes back to the Republicans framing of this. They wanted to appear like a trial, and so they want. You know the stand
to be beyond a reasonable doubt for both sexual assault and perjury. Right and Democrats and most of the country, because we have done this throughout his
when we've nominated people, the Supreme Court hearings, it's a job interview
It is a job interview for a lifetime appointment to the most powerful court in the land. That's what this is yeah and also. I would say that Brett Kavanaugh has some pretty strong opinions about perjury and whether or not it's a serious crime and if somebody should be say
moved or impeached over it- he says yes and he doesn't even care if the perjury is over a private sexual matter he's very
in favor of impeaching people for lying about private sexual matters. And
I would say that the evidence that Bill Clinton committed perjury is not a hella lot stronger than the evidence that Brett Kavanaugh repeatedly committed perjury in various confirmation hearings since he's been nominated to be a lower court judge in our Supreme Court judge,
I do think that the other argument against Kavanaugh's nomination confirmation that is sort of emerged since his testimony on Thursday is not just that he is proving himself to be designers over and over again big things in little things, but the fact that he sort of revealed himself to be this name.
Did partisan yeah, so the Portland Press Herald, which is the biggest newspaper in Maine Susan Collins, hope you're paying attention.
This is a quote from their editorial. Over the weekend quote. We have never had a Supreme Court nominee who ripped off the non partisan mean
just the way. Cabin I did Thursday an identified himself as an enemy of a political party that represents the policy preferences of millions of Americans, and you think back to that test in his opening remarks, which he wrote, which he had time to
look over, which is not something that he just said on the spur the moment and he looked and he talked about heating floated. A conspiracy theory about people are attacking him, because this is revenge on behalf of the Clintons and then he
I said you know what what goes around comes around issuing a threat like that
what goes around comes around like. If I end up
this court you're all going to be fucking. Sorry I mean it was crazy. The revenge on me happy
goes around comes around like this is clearly a very angry man, the revenge on behalf of the Clintons. That is silly nonsense, because
nobody's doing this. For the like, they may be angry. That Donald Trump is President lot of those
Kratzer Angry down Trump is president, and they don't want you on the Supreme Court. They don't like your policies. They don't like your your position as a judge. That's all true, but nobody's doing this. To get for Hillary say no,
doing this vocal intake. Nobody gives a shit, that's not about the
you look on the list of reasons I oppose break. Having a like his role in the in the can start. Bands on this is that that is zero for me would be talking about like. I do have some sympathy for the broader point that the confirmation process can be so bruising an awful for people in all kinds of positions that why would you ever take it
ministration job. Remember our friend, Tom Cotton Republican from Arkansas held
Obama. Nominee until she died died to stick it to President Obama.
But I mean that's not a new phenomenon and I go back to Linsey grams Red Faced's
Reaming tirade that didn't once mention
feelings needs obligations to a woman who sat by
for him just hours earlier talking about a very credible accusation of sexual assault. He he did not care
we're getting to the bottom of those allegations, he only cared about what it meant for his rich, powerful friend, Brett Kavanaugh, and that's why, like I'm getting very frustrated with a lot of the reporting on the broader process over the week,
it's like Washington once again, it is that is that a new low, like both sides are doing it. I mean, on the one hand, regardless
anything Dianne, Feinstein handled.
Did knowledge of Doctor Ford's accusations at the end of the day demo
trying to get to the bottom of a highly credible
sexual assault. Allegation about a possible Supreme Court, Justice and Republicans are doing nothing
sincerely investigate those claims and in fact, they brought someone in the outside
their role to attack the victim. So spare me this both sides, bullshit,
is what the Senate is supposed to do this. This is their job to look into this and will also- and it's not just Democrats that want to get to the bottom of this either, like you know, Jeff Flake want to get to the bottom of it,
Susan Collins, LISA Murkowski wanted to get to the bottom of its don't say it's like a Washington falling apart, just because one party decided to go out of their fucking minds and- and-
and this person, through on Thursday wanting a week to have the FBI look into the matter, was a bot was a partisan trick by
the craftiest person in the world. Dianne Feinstein and the mastermind mind this
Why did this whole thing out? She knew
Dr Ford's testimony would come out. She planted Deborah meters arterial, your accent there, it's whatever and
that was Thursday. Then Friday, when Jeff Flake can't look his friend
Chris Coons in the eye and say that he believes it's a partisan conspiracy ends up in favor of the exact same one week delay.
Anger them apart. It's just trick, isn't so ridiculous, incredible thing from that sixty minutes interview is when they asked Jeff Flake. Do you think you could have done this? If you were still running for office again and heat without even missing a beat said? Absolutely not, of course, not really known, as
No, I couldn't have asked for a week delay. If I was running for office, I mean what does that say about the Republican Party, the Republican,
base and the republican media that have Jeff Flake was running for another term in Arizona he could not have done. The simple must come
something that everyone knew that should be done, which is to ask for an extra week for this investigation. Tell you what I was thinking when I saw what Jeff Flake was doing, I sort of like, oh god that is politically really savvy, because when the committee hearing was started starting, I have this sort of pit. In my stomach in the pit of my stomach was generally puts out, the statement saying is voting yes and of course he is because if he votes no, he personally sank this guy and he doesn't want to do that if he votes yes
the committee he's imputing it making it impossible for him to kind to change his mind and vote no, the next day with Colin Makowski. If they may want to vote no, so we created this third pathway where he could vote yes,
committee, while still reserving the right to vote with a group of the moderate or whatever the so called moderates. What I thought
that was pretty savvy, and then I was sort looking this and like
the last time we had a moment like this. It was John Mccain voting in the health care bill. John Mccain is gone. Jeff flake did.
Did something on the path to doing the right thing which few in the committee have done. As Republicans he's going to be gone
One by one the people willing to do the hard thing on the republican side are disappearing.
On the on the way out, one of my big takeaways
the committee hearing was like. We should really think hard about term limits. Some of those people should be out of there. Orrin hatch should been
decades ago, grass, Charlie Razali Home, like that they're, not great leadership, if think about the Republican they would put in place of Jeff Flake. On a committee of Jeff like we're here,
not a person is going to look into Chris Coons his eyes, but and feel a stirring of
engines. But I have to say I am not a Mitt Romney fan, but I would have much preferred Mitt Romney to be on that committee, that Orrin Hatch and someone with a good, yeah and also
pause and say over the years
I made light hearted jokes about Chris Coons and just as a kind of
Guy, you don't know anything about just
stand in for like how you call it Carper's, either senator on the lower. Exactly I would say something along the, maybe even right now, my doing it, I would say something like who can compete with a rock star like Chris Coons. You know, and the implication is that he's not a rock star you kinda herries and the Antietam
and I just want to end that by saying this was a compliment- I guess Chris
job you do you. Could you and
elevator door held open at the right moment by?
They are very well changed, at least for a few days the course of his nomination
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Let's start with the politics around the Supreme Court fight, especially as it relates to the midterms. We have a few new polls from CBS you Gov, Quinnipiac, politico and reuters- that all shows similar results.
One more Americans believe Ford than they do. Kavanaugh to
more Americans are opposed to his confirmation, then supportive of it and the numbers have
really become worse for cavanah over the last week, with the exception of
Publican voters, especially republican men, who were slightly more supportive, but democratic
and women are heavily heavily opposed. An independent men and women are slightly opposed, also pulling
incredibly well amongst men, name squee.
We don't know, we don't know. What's we thinks because he was on the witness list, but maybe there or f b I's talking to squeeze as we speak squee. I think we all had friends with them. Nick names in the high school come yet. No of course
anything else. Surprise you guys in these numbers. In some of the some of the polling, I
surprised at the number of think pieces that are being written about these numbers- and I honestly I feel like this fight will feel like a lifetime ago. When we get
suppose I'm hopeful that it will remind Democrats that we need to check on the Trump Administration, with large ISA
back fact, that a lot of republican voters vote on judicial issues generally in a my turn them out, I think it's impossible to know what going to yeah.
The surprises to me to your point, Tommy is the You Gov Poll has sixty percent of Democrats, saying the Supreme Court will be view
the important inciting their phone twenty eighteen. Forty eight percent of independents said that only forty six percent of Republicans say that that that that is true is different than any poll that has ever been taken about Supreme Court, because it's always been a republican base issue and our fear for a long time had been. We can't get Democrats motive
enough about the Supreme Court is a big issue to vote on and they finally figured it out right we're about to lose the core forty years years, a source, it's frustrating
better late than never guys.
Thanks for voting on the Supreme Court after he gets fucking two judges.
Is the now is the most unpopular nominee of all time on the Supreme Court Brett Kavanaugh. That is the he has that distinction in all seriousness. I think there's two things to take from the polling: one is: how will it affect weather
cabinet gets guess on the court. I don't know that we don't, but, but this is now it's not about national national polling is about what Susan Collins will do. Lisa Murkowski to Jeff Flake will do. Donald Trump will do and I feel like that's not, as
it's not as responsive to the moving of these polls. The second thing is what happens to those pulling into the important to this issue? Whether Cavanaugh is
confirmed confirmed or not and again we have no idea. What are the I bring. The polling is 'cause there, a new
Ms piece, there ran over the weekend about how republican leaders feel that, while the debate
we're Kavanagh might cost them control of the house, it might actually help them make
in their majority in the Senate and here's the
isn't a quote by muscling for with a floor vote next week
Republicans would also imperil several Senate Democrats from strongly conservative states who oppose Judge Kevin are expressed ambivalence about his nomination. Yet in doing
republicans? Would energize many democrats unsure of independence in suburban congressional districts and big state governors races were female. Voters were already enraged yep to her by the I read that piece, and I was one of the reasons I scoffed at
in pieces. I don't know maybe they're right. Those are smart reporters. It's a reporters
who knows it's like why the stock market go up today? I don't know people had people had a.
Birthday party- I will just say this in in the pile of evidence against the contention from this piece that
We now have a bunch of Democrats are facing. Maybe the toughest Senate Map they've ever faced all these red States centers up and really tough races
and yet no- and these are all cautious people in fact, we've criticized a lot of them for being too cautious. The only person who's up, who are two people, the only two people who
who were up in eighteen that have announced their vote.
Anne, yet is Joe Manchin West Virginia and Heidi Heitkamp and noted
Donnelly in Indiana came out strongly against
nomination before flake flaked, and that's, I think, because he understands that you need the
turn out for him, that's how you gonna win a mid term. That is incredibly important. Point that
oh Donnally in Indiana. Looked at this dog himself is a conservative state, and yet I feel comfortable opposing this nomination, partly because I know that the volunteers I need the people were going to help turn out. The vote are not going to show up in less. I endless I vote,
on this, which shows you that activism work and pressure on the senator's works and also say good for Joe Donnelly. Joe Manchin was looking this at it as a tough vote and a tough choice before the allegations before all these stories before Cavanaugh is terrible performance before cabinet perjured himself
So, if you're on the fence about something, and then you learn all this new shit, how wide of a
the fence are you sitting on. You know here that humpty dump all over onto the right side, Joe, don't fall in the wrong
on the right side, Joe Mansion,
an example of how Republicans view this
in time you mentioned this earlier Accius quoted a Trump advisor this week.
Who said that if Kavanaugh's nomination tanks he'll advise the President
hold off on nominating anyone else until two thousand and twenty
the polarization in the Supreme Court would be an energizing issue for his reelection, carrying this advisor. This adviser told Jonathan Swan that if Democrats win the Senate under no circumstances should trump nominate a compromise candidate. This sounds fucking. Bat shit crazy to me. But what do you guys think I feel like this is first of all
I don't believe it. Second of all, this feels like a dimension door. Person set it to so, I don't think he's reporting is happened, but I believe that the reporting is accurate. I believe that the position is made up in the moment, and I believe it's
more about pressuring people around Kavanaugh than it is around Donald Trump's plan in twenty nineteen, as of Donald Trump
is like where we walked me through the calendar. I also yeah. I also think that, like Donald Trump doesn't actually care about judicial nominations in any way
perform, he probably barely knew what they did for a living until he got the job, but, like the federalist society
does like the Leonard LEO big money, donor right wing, zealots that grow Brett Kavanaugh's in their petri dishes, they care, and there is like we're. Not waiting till you lose real,
potentially we're going to do this right now and like we're just going to put forward someone that wasn't a belligerent, drunk
actually did terrible things like put forward Amy, bear it and call it a day yeah it it struck me is like: why are they give
up this easily, I would go. We shall not giving up this easily like, but that's why it's a it's a way of signaling to people yeah the base and to sit to the activists and the writers, and then
and review writers a smart ones, their best intellectual?
There is a sambo, not intellectuals in both going around get on that zamboni and you can out there on to that. I said you the way for
Trump saying crazy, shit or but Trump saying crazy shit, but I will write a thousand word piece about why it is the right thing to do, even though I have criticized Trump in the past. Let me think so hard. My brain falls out and lands on a pile of Ayan Rand books and then absorbs the text of those and rain books and then jumps back in my head choices. Smart now,
What I don't know what's going on there, what happened? I don't know I liked it on the democratic side
Michael Avenatti said over the weekend that he thinks a full and complete FBI. Investigation into Brett Kavanaugh, with impeachment on the line, should be a litmus test for Democrats seeking the parties two thousand and twenty presidential nomination, and that the court should
expanded to include eleven justices medious on who I know you
where to place in the world at the intercept. Also wrote a piece about this saying Democrats should re balance. The court
next time, they're in power. Is this a good idea,
yeah, I am not a lawyer. I spent
so the visor over high band I worked on national security policy, has been exactly zero minutes working about judicial nominations at the White House, so cabbie ought to side, but I think when you
start floating ideas like packing: the courts you're getting it to Banana republic territory you're getting to Hugo Chavez
Maduro Venezuela, countries where democracy goes fully off the rails.
So I'd love. I guess they stole a seat. Yes, I guess in some way
is totally irrelevant with other countries do but like there's something that, in my mind, should be saved
when we, when we have one election for eight years, well like what what other well a whole lot to make a change right now, I understand the confines of the cake right. I know people on the court is not a secret that I know, but it's it's where we've been since what eighteen something
and changed a bunch. We had six justices. It then went to ten. We will talk about the time periods in the eighteen
and then the republican legislature shrank the six hundred and fifty to stop Andrew Johnson for making nominations Lincoln added a tenth justice to try to end slavery, and you know basically Republicans did change the makeup of the core in twenty fifteen and two thousand and sixteen when they
to eight justices, so it it there's a nine and I just think a permanent change. Whatever let me make it my view, is: it is a serious idea being stuck with the rules of the number of judges and what can and cannot change, which is basically just handed down to us as sort of an accepted rule is no reason to not explore whether or not that rule should,
change. I think if you look at the Supreme Court right now, not only do we have the stolen garland seat and the conservative, like only believe, it's stolen. If you don't understand,
we know it wasn't literally like a fucking beagley boy with a mascot
and, but you know, was fucking stolen Mitch, Mcconnell at least brags about everything you ever did. My proudest moment is looking Barack Obama in the eye and telling him you're not going to fill. That seat were not saying stole like a crown jewelers, thanks to like a base in baseball, they stole it or whatever.
Go ahead. Continue you lost us. I just think we should be open to the
yeah. I don't know if it's a good idea. Mostly honestly, I don't know if it's a good idea politically, but I would love for there to be a possibility for Democrats to add two judges all right to the Supreme Court. I don't know if it's a good idea, because I'm not a lawyer, you said, but the bigger fear I have is that politically it I yeah I I like I just it makes me very nervous. I guess where I went, I will say this
I've you know been back and forth on this originally Tommy. I think I was much more where you are and the more I thought everyone should read many a sons piece, because it is a very I mean I'm gonna, just just randomly said something. But but yes, I wrote a very thoughtful
nice about this. One thing I didn't realize is you know I'm like well, maybe it's just easier to impeach Brett Kavanaugh. If you know we find more allegations after he's on the court, that's tougher than adding to the court or taking away from the court. Impeachment requires two slash three of the House and the Senate to add a seat to the supreme quarter. To take one away would only require a simple majority in the House and the Senate. Two slash three of the
majority, the house right all right. Sorry, sorry, sorry, yes, so there's there's that so it's so it's it's an easier thing to do. Of course, that doesn't get the problem of. Is it sort of with our democracy? I guess my biggest worry is not just to like the value of the institutions itself and the the you know the the history of it. It's republican retribution.
So if Democrats get into power- and we had- we had two justices to sort of make up for the stolen seat and Brett Kavanaugh Liar on the Supreme Court. Then, when the Republicans win well, then they add two more seats to get that and then then does the court become a political tool for whatever parties in power to carry out that
pretty's agenda. Now some people will say it already is well that's the thing this is this is a lot of this is sort of addressing a shift that we struggle to talk about, because it's not quantifiable, but the court has changed. It has become much more divided on ideological lines. You don't know you can go from before Bush versus Gore, but the fact is now we do, and Kavanaugh's behavior during this hearing is only a reminder of that. We now have republican judges and democratic judges. When we appoint someone like Elena Kagan, we know where they're going to likely end up on key issues. Same thing for someone like Neil Gorsuch, the mystery and majesty of the court, where someone like Nixon might accidentally appoint a liberal where the ideological makeup of the court was more opaque and less beholden to partisan politics is gone and uh.
This is a response to that part of it. Why we're talking about this? Is it's not because the cars popcorn as partisan the court's partisan and we've lost the court and it and it has, and it has limited our power dramatically- is already affected. Obamacare is affected a bunch of different issues. Yeah I mean, I think the in terms of the political
it would be politically. I mean take this with a almost decade: long, green assault, but, like I think, people think it hurt Roosevelt and the new deal coalition when he tried to pack the courts politically. I think there's also a question of like what it would do to the credibility of the court generally on how
could damage that. So that makes for worth thinking about it. I mean the
the reality is: if Democrats win in twenty twenty,
and it's not only it's not just about okay, now Ruth Bader Ginsburg retire, and we can replace her with liberal justice
basically means that even if we win in two thousand and twenty Clarence Thomas is seven thousand one hundred and seventy two years old. That is the next possible
retirement where we can actually restore the balance of the court to what it is right now
That is a long long time with a court that will absolutely we know this because it is so partisan. Now we have gorsuch in cabinet rule against almost every major progressive initiative that comes.
In a democratic president that is a decade or more, and you gotta believe Thomas on there, that if there was a democratic president, Clarence Thomas will hold on to that seat. Like the night and the Lasker said in that room, he will be there for four hundred fucking years waiting for waiting for people to come in and check out the cups. I'm telling you
this idea of core packing court rebalancing every branding it today court buffing, it's just sort of accord improvement the core improvement as the court, the court, modernization, renovation and pre existing conditions that holds well, but not the natural growth, the reform and get money out of politics. Pre existing conditions are Aberdeen Reinvestment ACT, the cord is invited, cord surge look
I took German. We got a whole bunch of these. Just call us anyway. What I was gonna say is like
all of this sort of, like I maybe will pack the courts I get coming out of nowhere like it's actually a response to a deeper problem, which is these nominations have become in part because of the partisan nature of it. Now
now an because judges are living so much longer. These appointments
become so fucking important, the scale. That would be
that's part of part of why you know this part of my management.
I felt it necessary and politically palatable to hold a Supreme court seat on an unprecedented way in the in the off chance. Donald Trump won the White House. The seats have become too important because they're their four hundred and forty,
because the court is polarized and no,
he has a good answer that you can adding to justice may solve the problem, for us is Democrats, but it doesn't say
fundamental problem, and you know I don't know,
there. If anyone hasn't set up so people throw it term limits, but term limits may be the hardest thing to do, because term limits will require a constitutional amendment.
The one thing that gives me a little bit of hope. Here is no matter what happens with Kavanaugh. If we win the house back, I think the committees will start investigating him, so we might get to a place where his impeachment is far more possible. If he actually did the things he is a queue stuff, but again, that's not a long ball. We want to be
yeah yeah. Okay, let's move on to our favorite segment
end of the day
Antonio Delgado is the democratic candidate for New York's 19th congressional district. He sounds great, which, which covers
parts of New York's, Hudson Valley and Catskills region. The Catskills cultures is
One is John Faso who was first elected to Congress in twenty sixteen thousand five hundred and one by eight percentage points and the district voted in favor of
trump. However, the 19th drastic voted to elect President Barack Obama in both two thousand and eight and
twelve. This is one of the Obama Trump districts, the cook political report.
Well. It's five hundred and thirty eight have described the race as a toss up
Tommy. What do we know about Antonio Delgado? Well, John one? He is a Rhodes scholar he's a graduate of Harvard LAW School he's an attorney he's friends
with a bunch of our friends, some friends of the pod Danielle Gray, who say he is an incredibly smart, thoughtful Impr,
if individual. We also know that, thanks to our
sad sack want to be policy. Wonk friend, Paul Ryan, he is facing some of the most racist adds up this cycle. He,
the one time like wrapped on an album.
Or something and they're making that the focal point of a whole bunch of race, baiting, ads
I think, for that alone, we should probably support him until Paul Ryan, that he is at the spit
human being yeah. He had a successful rap career briefly and and and launched a hip hop record label and who hasn't yeah yeah. That's that's a hard thing to do. Not if
if you're, going to go after him, Wanna come to me for when I do that, if you guys can find love, it's rap album then
really hit gold. No yeah! I mean the ads are so disgusting. He can't be our voice,
yeah, that's what they had stated. That is his voice, his voice, and then they play the rap. His voice is not our voices. What the ads are saying by the Nrcc
condoned by Paul Ryan and all the Republicans who were so, we can't can't can't make race an issue in our party. We have to drive out these racists, that's what Paul Ryan said
to the post. John Faso other hits from him after promising a constituent with the brain tumor that he would not vote for the healthcare repeal bill. He voted for it. He did. He voted for it. Votes
Trump. Ninety percent of the time, a rating from the NRA ran digital ads promising to keep MS
been out of New York featuring an ominous looking photo of tattooed latino men just feather trying everything he pos.
We can, in Obama Trump District to say this is not a
but the economy. This is not about checking Donald Trump. This is all about you being scared of an african American winning the seat
an MS thirty again, this ad is by Clf, which is Paul Ryan Super PAC. It says he has Delgado, has extreme New York city values, he's New York City's voice, not our.
What is that? It is
it shows an image of two white people. They say would pay higher taxes, so it is as blatant as it gets an antenna
Again is a Rhodes scholar and a graduate of Harvard law that is is qualification at least this time,
sad when they refer to New York city values. They mean black and not jewish. That's right! That's right!
Anyway. It's very tight race. There's a couple polls have showed Delgado up couple shows that have pulled it showed him down. So it's a toss up is going to come right down to the wire so
You know if your four and I guess we, I guess we haven't voted vote. I need more information.
I'm I'm, I'm leaning heavily in an favor here. His ok wow. Normally, I'm torn love it
to you, I'm I'm, I'm I'm coming I'm coming out for Delgado as well, I'm going or that I want to be one of those funds. That is at the end that everyone's focusing on you know you better not put, keeps see John faster in Congress, disqualify containing supplies and broken out.
Alright, endorsement goes to Antonio Delgado in the New York 19th Q. The fanfare good work. Everyone, if you agree, you should support Antonio Delgado help him out, you can use, it can be a tough race and he's facing
millions and millions of dollars of racist out. So I could see you at the polls. Well I'll, say this John out. Give me one. Second, I'm gonna say I'll, say this John Oneonta.
What I'm working on, and only on some fun and they're, not comment normally become so past. Leave that in
when we come back, we'll have my interview with Anna Maria Arqiva Executive direct.
The for popular democracy are supporting John five, so you might as well be stony aunt. It go to vote,
America dot com. Both these people out.
Pod, save America is Bracci, buy stamps dot com,
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oh, where to get the stamps to put on the mail in absentee ballots, so we're too lazy to go to the post office in find stamps come on guys. Yes, this was a story. This is a focus group of college students talking about
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now there are computer lab or those just OBS.
Probably not computer labs with that dated us? You guys use Unix, I'm just kidding, that's not something! I know what it is. That's a word
I heard we do use stamps dot com all the time here, though, because we send a lot of stuff, we send shirts sweatshirts. We send Choch keys, you get the point, that's great
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download the cash today and put in the code pod set on the pod today. We're happy to welcome Anna Maria Archila executive director of the center for popular democracy, and one of the women who confronted Jeff Flake,
elevator on Friday on a welcome to the pot. Thank you so much.
So by now so many people have seen the video of you and Maria Gallagher confronting Jeff Flake on Capitol Hill. You
also been on the hill all week and you had shared in his office at the beginning of the week that you had been a victim of sexual assault yourself, something that you'd never even told
your parents. What ultimately led you to share your story in Jeff Lakes Office,
we're living through a really important moment in our country. The me, too,
moment is allowing us to kind of really stare at the reality of sexual violence in our country, and I-
around the world
and I have been thinking about this question of whether I can or whether I should share
story ever since, but really it was he.
I guess, on Monday, reading the story of Dr Play, Seaford Ford and Rec
noise in my own experience in her and then watching the outpouring of courageous kind of story sharing that survivors were doing across the country that allowed me to kind of step into it, an overcome the fear that I've been holding for thirty years and share my story both as an act of solidarity as a deeply political act as a deeply feminist act
and as a way to participate in these kind of weaving a fabric that we're doing in these moment of really kind of confronting the pain and the rage, but also the resilience and the power of of survivors and of women in particular. In this moment. So after you share that story and in center flex office, obviously you know we all woke up to the news on Friday that Senator Flake said he would be voting for cash
when are in the Judiciary Committee, and then you were outside of his office. You sort of saw him go into the elevator. What were you hoping to?
Achieve in that moment, when you made the decision to confront senator flake in that elevator, did you think you might be able to persuade him? Were you hoping that other people would hear you confront him, because there
Eisley reporters there. What was there going through your mind and in that moment listen I had been in
DC in joining hundreds of
people who were sharing their stories, both about surviving sexual assault.
Surviving a system that constantly is trying to take away our healthcare survive?
Ng moment in history? That's constantly trying to take away our voting rights, so I was kind of neat surrounded for weeks with stories of people who I we're coming to Washington DC, to fight for their lives, to fight for the people they loved and on Friday I showed up to the Senate,
the Hart Senate building to join and the protest early in the morning before the hearing started, and I
a young woman who I I was just meaning for the first time media Gallagher and she said well I'm here for the first time, I've never talked to an elected official. Someone said that I should go to Senator Flake's office when I said well, ok, let's go I you know, I'm
organizing for seventeen years and I know that we have to fight the fight up until the last minute, even if it feels like we are Lou
sing, and you know quite honestly. In that moment, it felt like we were losing out, but I believe in the power of people trying to still hold elected officials accountable, even even if you were, if we send that our voices might not be enough. So I I went to Senator Flakes Office with her. We I
these nugget of kind of hope that maybe maybe senator flake could be the one that would demand a better process. He could be the one Republican that could vote his conscience, partly because you know he's not up for for reelection, and so it seemed worth it to me, and I had just been his uh
earlier in the week, but I did not honestly. I wasn't convinced that we were going to find him.
It's really hard to find. The senators
wasn't sure that we were going to be able to talk to him, even if we found him. But but I feel like
these moment- and I wanted to do these things together and it was. We were so
in front of his office when we, when we found out that he had just released a statement announcing his decision to vote for Kavanaugh, so we both
felt so dismayed and then
for him walking out of his cordon, not
another another door close to his office and the gaggle of reporters kind of following him, and so we just ran and
didn't really know exactly what we were going to do in the moment. But we ran
and we were just rudely kind of interrupted, the interviews that were happening and and just shit
really like allowed ourselves to do what women are
only he told not to do, which is to actually just powerfully share our anger and our pain
and our story and force him to look at us and and force him to hold to really
hold. The emotion that so many women are are are having are feeling in these moment out, watching that our our our politicians yet again put a woman who courageously kind of shared her story of surviving sexual assault through a trial and then for me and I'm turning their backs and saying. Well, I guess we don't really have the fact. So let us just go with the man.
I mean it's gotta be so hard to go, actually do that. In that moment I mean you, you work for a progressive advocacy organization,
but you said you know. Maria Gallagher is in a professional active is that this is the first time she come to Washington like this. Why do you feel it's important for the senators to hear from voices like hers? You know you talk to the Washington Post about race.
Are people doing scary things? I know you know on the
all the time we go to live events. We always try to persuade people
go, knock on doors and a lot of people say you know it's scary, to phone bank for the first time, it's scary
knock on doors. I can't imagine how scary it must be to chase after a senator
who's getting in an elevator and share your story like that. What what do you think about that? I mean, I think that up we have to do these things. That scare us so that we can as a as an act of love, it is as an act of both love for our
elves love for the for the people. We know love for our country and as a way to correct the.
Chrissy that so so damaged by both the
the kind of internal dynamics of partisan bickering, but also the corruption of kind of the money in politics, and I would like devoted
my entire adult life to
in building building people power, and it's really build one person at a time. One person discovering her voice and her power and discovering that actually happens in community
So you know my friend at a well yes, he is
one of the most just wise, profound, beautiful human beings. I know- and he I I think really. The kind of example is the the power of
using like really allowing people and the country to have the courage to
turn away. I think it has said again and again look at me. Yes, I am dying, but
and and because I'm dying, I know something that we should all know, which is that our time is precious and we must to use the time we have to build a country that allows the people we love to live with freedom. I
you know, I think, when I first went to when he first came back to Washington DC after confronting senator flake actually on the plane
We had a little conversation with the leaders of the women's March in are sore and Bob
and then when you long and others, and it shared passage of time, has the codes book to his son between the world and me and I'm paraphrasing it's the passage basically says you have to think about slavery and a
any other great injustice, not as something that happens to a mass of people or something that a mass of people do. You have to think about it.
Something that happens to one person and what did it feel like for her to wake up in the morning? Who did you talk to what made her cry? What made her laugh? How did she feel up when her children were taken away from her? How did she feel at the end of the night? After an endless day of work, you have to try to imagine what her life was like and and really like. Bees is what we're trying to do with all
of the outpouring of stories about surviving sexual violence, which is one expression of the one of the many ways that women can have are devalued and in our culture
and and and- and I think it's it's really like forcing
conversations- that's what I was that's. What I think mary- and I were determined term into
in that moment, is telling senator flake okay, fine, it seems like you have made at the.
Shin to turn your back on us, but we're not going to let you look away. Look at me and there's this extra week, while the FBI Us of expand their investigation
What is your plan to continue fighting the nomination? Obviously you have Senator Collins is still undecided, Senator Murkowski,
I guess on the democratic side, do you know Joe Manchin, then and Heidi Heitkamp what's in store for this week,
all these week there are
Hundreds of people still traveling to Washington DC to talk to senators in the holes of the Senate, buildings like Marie, and I did on Friday and thousands of people-
will join us in Washington on Thursday to to to rally together and to kind of have a public display
of of power. We will continue to bird dog, Us
in Washington and visit their offices in Maine and Alaska
Virginia and all across the country
it's time that we have is incredibly precious and we cannot allow the FBI to decide who is a Supreme court is court as it has to be something that we people in this country take ownership over and really demands. Were we once the Senator Senator Flake Senator
Collins Senator their Makowski to make this decision with a lot of
standing. That kind of the consequences for the next several decades, and we want people in these moment to use their power up in the same way. So, let's not give up our power to to the FBI. Let's do this, let's, let's show up so that we can be the ones at the side who, in accepting court justice will be, and how do you
to convey to people who are protesting? Who are of many for the very first time that this is
sort of a very long struggle that doesn't end?
whether or not Cavanaugh makes it to the court. One thing I always worry about is you know a lot of people ever since Trump became president are protesting for the first time, they're active for the first time and you think
Obviously there going to be disappointments along the way. How do you make sure?
How do you sort of buck people up to make sure that those disappointments don't sort of hardened into cynicism, but you know make people feel like they need to keep going.
It's still possible that the that the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh will be forced on all of us, but I think that the reckoning that women and survivors in this country are forcing on
country is, is not going to go away, we're
show up with these level have read
anger and pain to the election,
in November, and
we are going to continue to lead
I the process of kind of transformation, this the the story of our country, the history of these countries, is of constant
struggle for more of us to be included in the promise of freedom and of democracy and and that's
exactly what we're doing right now. Forcing the country to include women in
the promise of freedom by not ignoring are the violence that that is imposed on us. The intimate violence and the sexual violence by not ignoring might by not contain
in perpetuating kind of the political violence of diminishing our voices and
so. I think that whatever happens with commoners nomination, these movement is just building more strength. Everyday. I have complete
trust in our ability to gain power from each other, and that's
At the end of the day, what will hold the Supreme Court's feet to the fire as well, regardless of who's sitting? There obviously Judge Kevin is not just terrible as a Supreme Court justice, because he's accused of attempted rape he's terrible because he has power. He has Trump seal of approval, he's ready to roll back the rights of women that decades of progress for
women for immigrants for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people for workers. So that's why we can
just simply allow the FBI is investigation to be the decisive factor. We have to fight this nomination all the way, and I actually believe that momentum is on our side that if we keep going
if we keep forcing these interactions in demanding these connection and demanding, like real moral reckoning that weekend that we can turn the tide, and I didn't think that on August first, when id and and hundreds of other
Bird Dog back went to
Washington to get arrested in protests of cabinets nomination on Maria. Thank you so much
joining us, thank you for the work you're doing and thanks to you and and Maria Gallagher, for making sure that senator flake did not look away we
Thank you so much. I want to make sure that people know where to find information about the activities that are happening. These wheels. You can follow us. You can follow ADDIE Barkan on Twitter. He will keep us all informed, but also you can follow the action
and the women's March, and and we will make sure that the country knows about all
elevator women that are getting ready to fight and to force every single
one of those senators to look at Us Bank, Santa Maria appreciate it
Thanks to ANA Marie are Chila for joining us today. So I know ANA Maria talked a little bit about what you can do. If you wanna help stop the nomination break. Have no this week are our friend Ben Wiggler Moveon DOT Org reach out as well. He said if you can make it to DC, go to DC. There's gonna be demonstrations in the Hart Senate Office Building atrium every single day, so you can go, join the pro
Is there you can stop by your senators, local offices? If you're, not in DC, you can make sure
you get elevators with them. There's going to be a v.
All nationwide on Wednesday night so check out.
Find dot org to figure out where those are and, of course, call the Senate two hundred and two two thousand two hundred and forty three.
Two one call everyone you know in Maine, Alaska, West Virginia, but most of all main because, as Susan Collins goes so go,
the other people who are also undecided with to go
there's a wishy washy woman in Maine in the future of many right,
Depends on what happens also thanks for listening, Brett Kavanaugh. This one goes out to you. We have to comma
on the song to make sure it's fair use. I don't like it. I like Brooke, be like red red wine white wine. I like beer, ok, fucking clown,
don't buy some nets tickets, what's up with
that's tickets. All this shits going on and nobody's gonna buy. Everybody get somebody internet tickets.
Transcript generated on 2019-10-12.