As they wait for Iowa caucus results, Jon, Jon, Tommy and Dan talk about what went wrong in the first contest in the nomination process, what it means for the caucus moving forward and how the candidates move on from here, even as they learn more about the delegate counts.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I welcome the POD save America John, ever I'm John loved atomic meat or of the five or a beautiful day for democracy here and mine.
So we're according
This bonus episode at one p m on several times central time
what day is it Tuesday and so at four p m central,
We should have at least half the result. So by the time you hear this, we will have some results from Visa Iowa carcasses, but for now
We are just going to talk about everything that went wrong yesterday, Monday
in some of the things that, when writing, I will try to find some things are, went ratifies of theirs there, okay, so the four of us
and the good immediate team. We started the night we went to a carcass precinct. An agony
when your nine agony or nine, which is a suburb of DE mine,
Damn you know, things seemed
pretty smooth arse
no I mean there's probably right. That's whether eleven does it's like you wouldn't have known. We went to our caucus location. It was a pretty diverse mix of supporters of all the different kind of candidates
I think Bernie ended up winning our Congress, but PETE was right behind him. Worn was right behind him and then
no majority behind Bosnia for candidates reach my body, which is pre unusual thing. Yes, it is.
And then in the process of counting and everything else
and the realignment all that whimpering smoothly.
And then we all left and drove back to the point to walk the results and that when we started seeing that they were not
reporting the result anytime soon, because there is an issue king
Cancun the hose. Let's um I mean just because there's so much different from it.
Albert let's talk about how the process was supposed to work, with an emphasis on what was different about it. This year
and obviously, hopefully many of you know exactly how the process was forced to work this year, because you listen
on the ground in Iowa, but in case you haven't heard it yet. Tommy tell us what was different about this year and how the process was
Nor should the so there are few things are different as yours. There some changes to the rules themselves, which
on first alignment, meaning when the wind Aroun first lines up in the corners, their the precinct and determined viability or not eternity.
Percent or not. You are, then locked in with your candidate, so that was one new rule change their authors. These presidential preference forms that people filled out see physically wrote down, who your coaxing four and then what the data that was reported back,
was, can be released by the ILO Democratic Party change, so they're gonna release a IRAN vote, count after the first alignment, the robber count after the second.
I'm in the traditional state, delegate equivalent number and then like will how many delegates you get out of the forty one in the state that
the plan, and this was the first time that all of those sets of data would be released or would be reported. Usually it's just the state, delegate, equivalence and ultimately the pledge delegates and
Robert totals both in the first time in the second of lemon. Those usually didn't have to be reported.
So now they were going to be reported for the first time. So there was extra data to report,
and the way they work on a report was they had this app that was gonna report
all the data, but they also as a backup had you could call it in the phone and its.
Like the there were problems with both of those systems
let it. Why did you design that up the way you did
with these me up design?
very long and hard on programming app
smoothly works exactly according to plan
So it's a stupid. I guess the Belgrade usages. I will read the this statement from our democratic party. That was,
give me the last statement that they released super late on
Monday night, they said, is
in caucus. Result started coming in the item,
Our party ran them through and accuracy and quality check. It became clear that there were in with the report's we.
Herman with certainty that the underlying data collected via the EP with sound, but while the app was
Reading data accurately it was reporting out only partial data. We have determined. This was due to a coating issue in a reporting system which they,
and fixed and then severally there was he for whom issue.
Apparently the issues with the African founded by failures with the parties hotline system, the idea he had
up a phone hotline as a backup method for precinct chairs report result in case the app is not working. However, they were
completely overwhelmed with calls Monday night increasing chairs were left on hold for hours
What was your reaction Tommy when this was all unfolding? Having been here for a while thrill
I really like this. This is a more
give your than ever. There's more data being reported there, so many candidates- I mean it's crazy- that there were precincts. Were five candidates were viable rights? Are there there's more math to be done?
let s just stepping back like carcasses are not a precise process. This is not like scientific
a year we were in a room with two hundred three people and then human being
is divided up, counted them,
move them around counted them again and then ultimately split ten delegates amongst these candidates right. So it's an imprecise processes as an fuckin Deloitte
in some ways. Although Orient run yes more and run it though it will be an unconscious answer at a sailor, unify always be some errors at caucuses. You now in some ways the transparency of a cock is where you literally stand up and do all the math publicly helps eliminate some of those errors, but their wives be problems. I think that this app in some of the technical flaws were a challenge. I think that there is a bigger problem of people by not being fully trained to use these new
knowledge is well means this report's if he were downloading the app day of which has since crazy, that is inexcusable, had as possible and are clearly wasn't a backup system. You know that
these paper about filling out. What was a process for then retaining like up to a couple hundred thousand pieces of paper need a system for that in some way to use it, or else you just said not about you. Pay
So my reaction was enormous frustration that we didn't have any answer to whose winning
there's no winning with the field coming out of Iowa, there's no balance for any of the candidates. It really sucks and saddens me that people are just calling into question the primary process generally and with some good reason here and then, like my heart, just breaks for all these kids and campaign.
Who worked so hard for a year, but literally everything they had into this campaign and they came out not feeling like winners or losers, but just let down by the party. That is the most heartbreaking thing to me. The thing that
I agree with all of that lake. I feel terrible for the people who were dark. Our you do everything exactly right. The guy who was the carcass chair was,
like a master of organization, yeah, really what he was awesome and jokes invite funnier
but there is also, I think, coming down. A really interesting point here that is shown by this was all but of a perfect storm of problems which, as you have all the new composition of the new system. But if you think back to recent years, the math was essentially more comp, he'd, even the old,
in twenty. Sixteen, the rooms put up in two ways: right
and maybe there was one or two Mally people who they would fight over by overwhelmingly. There was two candidates in two thousand, and
There were three candidates, I think maybe
Richardson or Biden Goddess
Go delegate somewhere, but almost every room split three ways, so there is less on realignment there why it was as a much less complicated
I'm here were you have four and five candidates reaching viability. Place makes us so much harder, plus in a decent size, turnout winked at them
the tragedies, but so lotta people actuary three one hour in the room we were in, that it is complicated and hard.
And then, when you put in for
system that doesn't work and at the doesnt work a new system with people being
point by volunteers who have been doing
system for decades. In some cases it was a recipe for disaster love it.
We're watching the carcass, and you know there are many many critiques about the ILO caucus that are completely legitimate. I was not
demographically representative of the country there's a lot of people who can't caucus people with disabilities sometimes can caucus people who
autism sometimes don't feel comfortable, causing it's not a blind ballot, but yet seeing it unfold, you actually appreciate what makes it democratic way:
makes it feel like communities coming together to talk this thing through. It is civil, it is.
Elaborate if it is a bunch of people who ultimately have the same goal coming together, to do something positive and
The way in which this has been destroyed by the failure,
report: the information. It's it's a heartbreaking, it's a heartbreaking thing! You know this is the beginning of the
important primary of our
eyes you been saying that for a year and year, an incredibly in a inauspicious and disastrous beginning in its also just a deeply sad fact that we're gonna be hearing about this from irresponsible
but like Donald Trump and Lindsey Gram and others for the next year yet mean going back to the site that we were at the right. We have this present, captain
who was doing everything right. All the people who volunteering with them to put this on were like excellent all the supporters and all the precinct captain from the different campaign,
even as they were like realigning. The retreating each other well known was arguing. Known was fighting like it just well, so there's been plenty of blame
spread around to a lot of places that are probably Shouldn. But I do think and Tommy
if I'm wrong, but it seems like the majority of the blame is on the Iowa Democratic Party itself. For not I mean there are problems with the app for sure, rather a coating problems, so that deserves and blame for sure, but like a lot of these priests
chairs weren't trained on the app a lot of them didn't even know about the app for a couple weeks until a couple weeks before
didn't do dry run. They didn't have the phone system wasn't ready to handle a bunch of calls in case something went down. Just seems like they should have planned for all.
Look at to normalcy, complicated process. It's almost one thousand seven hundred many elections, but what I've heard anecdotally from people is that they didn't have people to run some of the precincts until the last days. They were scrambling to find folks. It seems like there were people who just didn't under
the rules and they screwed up the alignment, processes or didn't do realize men, or you know that screwed up the data so with the caviar that that that we don't really
How exactly what happened? We don't know if it's a terribly coated app or if it was used.
Error among people who are familiar with the Epp. Whatever I don't know, I don't care YO democratic power
You had one job literally YAP was to make this go off and it was an unmitigated.
Faster, and there was a lot of momentum lead, and I know
people in their nice in their well, meaning that there is a lie:
of momentum going into last night among people in the party about how the primary process needs to change, and I
There is now literally no argument for Iowa going first, because part of the deal we make is that
yes, it's it's not representative state. Other problems are listed, but I wouldn't get sick. You really seriously. Canada's get vetted in the process gets run in and we learn something in a windows. The field that deal didn't they income through their into the bargain. Less yes, so here we are fucking limbo. So, as this massive fuck up is unfolding last night
people start spreading conspiracy theories and disinformation about what went wrong and it will
Just random twitter users, the truck
campaign and other Republican said it was rigged. A few journalists implied that even a few politicians I saw blame directed towards
the Dnc Tom Perez Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Robbie Mook,
can pay murder one point: Silicon Valley, Robbie, mucus treading on twitter, rainy and nothing to do with. Apparently, so, obviously we can reach that went on. Most of the responsibility lies with the IRA Democratic Party here, but does it doesn't seem like it's not too much to ask to four?
We want to just wait for all the information and reporting about what went wrong to come out before you start like just jumping conspiracy theories, especially if you are in a position of authority in some way
It is too much to ask. I mean that's what I'm so is. Are we just like pardon me wondered even if it was
just a minor problem, or even if things were,
relatively well like. Are we just in a situation now that, when there are fuck up like this people,
aren't gonna, be able to handle them appropriately and not just fuck ups, but confusion right
confusion. We are going to be in a situation if we run into a close race in California, where
California will not be called potentially fer a week or more
for to produce, as we do male unbalance, the Republicans exploded that massive way in two thousand eighteen because
They were ahead on election day, counted as in the crickets Evan districts, and, as is
Let's came in and it was you know these terms
but like missing ballots and ballot stuffing and all of that- and we are right for that is. Are we live in this disturbing me?
environment, footwear, bad actors have all the wrong and incentives and
we have a massively complex primary process. It lends itself to
confusion on its best day and incompetence on its worst year. The living too is like the idea that
We always talk about this that when we were in government- and it was a question of like did something go wrong because it was some summers, vinos a conspiracy or some malicious attempt, or was it incompetence- it's usually like nine out of ten times and competently, and it seems clear
like that was the case here, which is not excusable in any fucking way, but the idea that,
I don't know someone was going to like develop an app that some,
ah swung the carcasses towards one Canada. The other is just like a fucking defies belief,
you had to. Finally, also, you know look a chaotic, deeply importance.
Situation with very limited information is gonna, be revealing in how people respond, and so I think you saw people
oh see and others trying to turn the temperature down. Say everybody just breathe, we'll get the information. I think that's it generally attitude we
to take in moments of crisis, not to say that there is a huge fucking problem now to it:
we deal not to ignore the fuck up to say what we do. We have genuine information
but then you also see people who use it as
opportunity to go after their favorite villains to score points to it.
Division to fight the same fights they fight
like every other day of their lives, and it's obviously unhelpful. It's obviously do
again. It is book. A lot of people are saying the new conspiracies em in the assault on democracy, and I'm the thing about it: a lot because it does
sure something essential about how we respond in these moments and the longer we went without an answer as to
what happened and the more people who support Bernie.
Repeat or any of the candidates were getting more and more angry that their candidate may have been denied a key moment, the more they were looking for something big to explain their their terrible feelings, and this is just a fuck up.
By some incompetence of people who didn't plan enough is unsatisfying, and so you look for an answer that matches your level of anger, and I think we see that all the time and one of the unfortunate consequences of that is
people just asking questions. People just doing internet sleuthing without much to back it up in a moment of real uncertainty, have fed into what Donald Trump and the trunk
pain and Linsey Graham, who bear
The difference between right and wrong, with John Mccain will
well use now for the next year in Facebook, adds to target and demobilize potential democratic voters. Yet amulet
I think we should point out that the campaigns were actually pretty
sponsible yeah or shattered
some of them put out some of the information that they had it at that point of time, because all these campaigns you're there talking there precinct happen to a reporting back and they're, putting that ensue in exile sheet and trying to figure out what's happening in
What time are we can talk later about some other things, mayor, PETE, sad and the fact that you know declared victory in a lot of ways and whether that was appropriate a responsible? But you know, I think, what was
heartening last night was a lot of these additional data collection and reporting measures were put in place because of concerns the Bernie Sanders campaign had in twenty sixteen.
That didn't they wanted more transparent, wanted more transparency, and rightly so, but that
Stop a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters for trying to wedge
the challenges in reporting back that data into a frame of this? Is the party trying to fuck Bernie Sanders in
most just ass. A nine absurd example of that is someone online. You declared that this is on a bomber because he wanted Tom parades in charge of the Dnc, apparently not understanding that the Dnc wasn't running the eye
Caucasus right. So like Dnc, don't run state parties, guys peoples and their independent people like love, it said were free
hang out in emotional and went nuts in just lost their fuckin nights
We should read it again, like the centre.
Campaign has been
be one of the most responsible campaigns in that's you on the record is meant what they said publicly and off the record. When I was talking to them, they were like. We think that they're they're coming people down yet
but even in a moment where there was a lot of information, a people are looking to find someone to blame. It was hard to find an ideological direction to go and because we don't know what the outcome is going to be, but it seems like the two campaigns most upset by not knowing what happened. Are people
campaigns most upset by not knowing what happened are PETE Buddha judge and burning sand
is any order not who are not a not on the same page, where exactly how the only and then, by the way, is also worth pointing out that the only campaign that's come closer will get a questioning. The result is the bun campaigns. Pod save America's
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The other option less I got all the candidates are handling this and would start with more PETE, as Tommy was just talking about who basically declared
of the winner in a late night speech where he said
quote, I will you- have shocked the nation because by all indications we are going on to New Hampshire Victorious.
His team put out a memo basin
information they receive from seventy seven percent of their present captains,
which told them they were doing eight points better than they had expected, and so therefore they have
that they will win the most state delegate, equivalence. Now again by the time you hear this report
We have more information on this, but let's actually before we talk about whether was right around from to do this.
Dan? Can you a little about how campaigns know this kind of information in
finally or how much they know internally. On a night like this, as they're waiting for official public results,
so a campaign builds a model based on their data of how they have to reform and each precinct together with ably for they number,
in that model is turn out based. But you can dial up her dial a downed based on what turnout
is in you make production based on how we show up
and so these campaigns
they are well organised, have a prison captain whose job it is to tell some
the email phone are taxed in the headquarters? How many people are in that car site right? So
The p campaigns model may have
brilliant, respecting and fifty people. The site there are person- tells him. It's to eighty three
they then adjust their model to that point in so
these results of the campaigns are put out are based on their model. The and I think if peat is purporting eighty
near eighty percent of precincts, he is a good sense. The thing that I would caution everyone autumn is no one knows total turn out
So you can have really high turnout in some areas in really low turn out and others, and that could affect
you're out of your model in your estimated at if you're, not at a hundred percent precinct captains giving you dahlia so so that, with
seventy seven percent, though the
judge campaign, looks at the data and says: ok, I think we might be ahead in delegates by them.
The night. They don't say you know robber,
at the final alignment, but they do think the delegate in Britain we ve talked before about how these can be different.
So they send him. So all the other candidates go up and just give sort of their stump speeches. You know Amy Crowbar says we punched above our weight tonight.
The other one, because, let's see together, some speeches and PETE declares victory. What do we think about that?
binkie retrograde, I come and the peace that Hillary Clinton fumigation structurally atoms wrote yes on the
last week. That said in
one of confusion, if you're confident Declare victory Goodenough Hampshire, that's what he did and I end- and I guess some of the
contacts for this, too, is even if everything went perfectly last night, and we talk about this before we can easily vial
Tuesday night of the state of the union and then there's another debate.
Tonight, and then the New Hampshire, primaries Tuesday, and all of these
when you leave I or you looking for some kind of a big win to get momentum as your headed into New Hampshire, but now that there is a whole bunch of different sets of data
and someone could win the vote in some wicked when the delegates and somewhat go when the pledge delegates there could be multiple winter
and so we always knew it- was kind of bee gonna be a race to have someone
spin, their win as the real win, and now that there was this big fuck up, I'm sure that bridges
campaign paint okay, well, where the leaders in delegates we'd, better fucking, say something now because of this
goes on for days and
We don't know the actual results. I will be completely meaningless to this campaign,
You can also make an argument of hat
Maybe you should go out there and say where victorious when you dont over her, we return is campaign has said like
We just have to do well here. We we love and they'll, say like kind of on background, like we just have to be
Mightily in national poles. Bread has ninety zero percent after american support. He needs the kit escape Lawsy to have a chance to actually be the nominee
He needs to get escape glossy to have a chance to actually be the nominee and he like they have.
Not so suddenly model themselves, maybe not mail, that, ironically on Obama and his paw
and a lot more. What was a gigantic deal? We don't we
Hampshire, but it gave us an opportunity to actually take on eloquent and make it look
just to get it right in the end that it that option does is not avail for peat. As of the recording of us, you look at what the five campaigns have said. You had Amy Clothes
I got there and tissue punch Weber. Wait you had worn, go out there and say it's pretty tight at the top up here, the three of us than a space in the Navy bite, and you ll find you out there in saying we got delegates right.
And you had Bernie and PETE declare some sort of victory, and
that tells you what they're all feeling in a kind of it alive
with each other and so
think. I am struck by his thinking. Let's
we find out. We know now, but let's say we find out that either you know Peter Bernie can can really declare
victory here, they were really denied something incredibly important. A
Democratic socialist who's been trying to build a movement for three decades and won the I will
as an incredibly big deal or a gay person
one a stay wade contest for the Democratic Party to choose his presidential nominee. That's incredible that historic and it is just
sad that were here the next day, speculating as to whether or not they should have given victory speakers. It's just we're gonna, say it over and over again, but it just though the rest
conspiracy theories are so frustrating. Is they don't actual
a point to any good
and villain, because it looks like the two people that may have been hurt. The most are the people on the opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, Tommy. What you think of pits move there I
get it from a raw political perspective, and I do think there is something to be said for getting ahead of waiting for the other results come in industry, making your
is that said, I think when you combine the fact that peat really leaned-
harder than in the other campaigns in terms of declaring victory and the fact that they clearly are the reason that the domain registrar, Paul was
spiked. You can understand why that leaves a pretty bad taste and allow the other campaigns MAO's. Now, where it gets.
Did you ask? Is this company that developed the app this shadow over the fact that company is you ve got all these
like online inspector gadgets, like you know, figuring out through Effie, see reports that your peat is paid them in,
and then I was Democratic Party,
hey them about and are treated like
draw these red strings in allegedly conspiracy, Dat's were gets completely ludicrous and you lose me
but you know I kind of winced when I saw him tweet Iowa, you have shocked the nations by all indications were going on New Hampshire Victorious because you know maybe they
that's true, but there's no way for us to have that their data. So it's kind of hard to tell
talk right? Like you can't say, the results are undeniable, their deafened
Finally, deniable there's your represent reporting and you can't say all indications: could it some indications it
indication. I guess I guess work on down. This is just like if it's true that
is the delicate leader then
back in that you like, oh yeah. I guess it was smart for him to go out and get out ahead of it. If its not, then he deserves a ton of criticism of key
for doing that. Biogas, we're gonna, not like, maybe by the time your hearing, that school girl now or never forget that the problem will never, whether peat is first
second in their does seems who at least be some
unsaid consensus among the campaigns that that is the order where, because
When did the other important figures? No one
challenged so far, PETE's contention that they're gonna win the delegates or Bernice contention that they're gonna win the voter
and up until this year, the definition of how you won the Imo caucus wish. You got the most state, delicate equivalence right on it, so that
that's Alabama. Did it that's? How Clinton did it Clinton? Probably Rwanda we dont noakes on
but by all Angelo evidence, was the popular vote among our car discovers in sixteen, but one more say, delicate equivalence, and so
if that is true, he did when they are targeted at its worst,
Conspiracy, those confirm or deny himself moment, yeah
what you talking about. I like acronym, connected to pay:
reed and shadows of. I bet it's like so the app ended up screwing over p,
though I, how did how did we have with the phones? Yet I know a gipsy. Now I get looked the no one's looked into the air, the shadow concerned
see behind a German up the phone lines, which is a pretty alter
evidence is always gonna, be a safer bat over
malevolent masterminds, some once in awhile, you'll find a mastermind it'll happen. So we
the time. So I have repeated this Bernice campaign pushed out internal numbers. We're just gonna, go kinda by Canada, so Bernie campaign.
Pushed out. Internal numbers, they say are from nearly forty percent of precinct, showing Bernie,
we nine point. Seven percent of the final vote, PETE. Twenty four point: six Warren! Twenty one point, two by twelve point: four closer:
eleven and they said in their statement and her statement that they recognized it doesn't replace the full data from the Ipp. But there was support his work too hard and they wanted to have that data about which I thought was a pretty good hedge from the Bernie thing. I guess my question was, and you brought this up Dan actually white.
He's only had forty percent of priests captains reporting like I would if they would have more data, they are up to sixty percent
by this morning I believe so
very well organised campaign, would get you I'd say at least eighty percent of precincts you'd have someone whose job of job it was there
to get information, so I was very surprised about which brings campaign, which has seen
incredibly well, organised and state. The entire time we ve been here at least, would have that data come in so slowly and I would bet just knowing the worn peoples we do. They actually have. At least
he's gonna data as PETE does, but it is, it doesn't raised quite
read to me at least about the outcome.
About why that is, I think that they are giving. I don't believe that their
The hiding data or like that, it's just about every eye, was supply.
Eyes by how few precincts they had information from within five hours after the carcass yeah. I just better for mundane reasons: it's like you, the prison captain in such and such county put it.
Yet the bed and went to sleep you know anyway, I saw her. Do you wanna weren't campaign this morning there still chasing down internal data as well? As you know, the volunteer, let process in the grand scheme of things ache very well planned coordinated system together. This data is not that useful right there on the written Hampshire, regardless they didn't, know they're going to wake up to now
fucking results. Some reported last night that if we weren't are competing with each other talk at the start and lay out to our staff, while you brother
and campaign. As you know earlier, I said the cinders campaigners
one of the most responsible on this whole thing. I think maybe the most responsible campaign has been the warring campaign. They basically put out a that.
Release no numbers. They haven't declared anything they said were helping the party as much as we can we're. Trying
I give them the data that we have to make sure everything is right that the warn people think there's like a clear tier one. That's like Bernie Peat and Elizabeth Worn, and that a clear tiered too, which is any closer, and
by now in a normal race. The one percent difference between the candidates in that talked here is everything right
and what stinks now is because worst away,
thermostat up because his coming in piecemeal, because some of that we might never get, we might not ever have total clarity on that would be infuriating
yeah that and that's really sucks for the warrant campaign to because a vague him in a really close or
and upcoming in a really close third term Bernie an to boot adjudge. Then that would be
You know that would be a big deal for out of ILO if it was a clear this also sucks for any closer who seems around like a surprisingly good night. Well that not only would we, like the second big,
about it S. Instead, the big story
out of Iowa is this is a clusterfuck, and that is a bummer for every campaign competed
set probably job. I will arrive exact, so that brings us a Joe Biden so, but the binding
campaign. Talking about how the campaigns verse of irresponsible to beginning there,
first ones to release a letter from their lawyer,
earlier in the night when things are getting fucked up, based
we saying you know the EP has failed. The phone system has failed. You know both are true basis.
Sort of like putting everyone on notice that they were upset about the results themselves and then
find a few campaign manager. This morning said, if you have a process where you can't be confident that the results that are being reported are reflective of the votes that people cast last night in the process. That's a real,
concern, though it does seem like the Biden campaign has gone further than the other campaigns, and perhaps not just saying that this was a fuck up on reporting the results, but questioning perhaps the integrity of the results themselves.
What are you guys think about? That is not what you do. Anything you want I'll carcass ass, her eyes affair,
We don't know, but it might be. I dont know what
Looking at the leads them to believe that, but I also don't think that, given the disaster all around us, that I'm gonna criticise them for wondering that allowed out did us
I don't think anybody that position to defend what the Iowa
he has done, and I understand why the bombing campaign, especially if they think they underperformed, is gonna, put out a state like that is a big difference between saying there's, a problem. With this reporting system. There may be a problem with some of the numbers and claiming that there is some kind of
or against your Canada right which they're not saying, but it's in some way
plied by them. Making listing. I was very
cultural, and I saw that last night after having slept for press me three hours on it and that sympathetic, but I
You like it is very possible that there are real questions and it could be that some of the precincts were they expect to do by
are the smaller, more ruins where there may be more problems like the pull county, democratic part
was able to figure out other stuff and drive the numbers over to the headquarters.
Turn it away another problem, but they
the answer. We have seen a bunch of like bigger, better organised county parties who have been able to handle their business- that's probably not happening out in the rural basis, but we shouldn't disconnect F in effect that he, if all the reports from all the campaigns, are true and what we saw anecdotally, then he is a very big incentive to not have these results come out or have.
Or not have to be seen as declarative. I guess I would say I understand their concern, but I would have preferred
heard a much more nuanced statement of like what you just said or saying. You know
We think that we did well in a lot of these more rural economies, where we ve heard more reports of problems, and we just want to wait and see, and I should think you know the camp
in statements about some issues with Joe Biden in it
vented New Hampshire was like, let's just I'll, take a breath, wait and see
while the results come in. I think we might surprise people what
I think things like that is completely fine. Good for them
I worry about unless you actually have evidence, you know, starting to
in an environment like this questioning, perhaps the integrity of the results which theirs
a little closer to islands, every two things: the integrity and the accuracy.
Hungary suggests now fees and somewhere right that someone has cheated already system accuracy. Eggs is about
competence. Clearly, there is reason to question the carpet a what will it take,
Democrats to be Donald Trump in November, I'm John Faroe? And that's a big question? I try to answer in season two of the wilderness. Podcast from cricket media overseas.
Episodes, attacked the voters, strategists organizers and candidates in the battleground states around the country will decide. The election will travel to the fore
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so we talk a little bit about whose hurt most by this debacle,
Does it help anyone? It might help Joe Biden if he ends up coming in fourth or fifth right, because it is such a muddle and then he could serve gets away with what would have been probably that
worse narrative of the night if he came in fourth or maybe even Joe Radio, if Joe Biden ultimately comes in fifth, this is a incredible rescue of Joe Button right,
comes in fifth mine, Amy closure that would have been an extremely damaging, far reaching story for his campaign and by the way, like you know,
can try to kind of so doubts in what the outcome would
even if they have some legitimate grievances, but you know I'm sure in
That campaign. The Bayer question is not
What happened in Iowa? It's. What do we do? Moving forward that we have this incredible weakness they may have been was revealed by this result, less turnout for second, we dont. Of course
The final turn out, but we did get a statement from the.
Already earlier in the night as things were, going off the rails, that they believe the turn out was on track to match the twenty sixteen carcasses
and then I believe that people judges campaign statement, also
that they thought it was on track to match twenty sixteen from their internal data. How worrisome Dan is that to you that the turn out in an election like this would be lower than it was in two thousand eight and when it was record her, I think we were all myself included, overly optimistic about reaching two thousand of turn out in part because estate his move. Nineteen point in their public and direction at the
financial level in that twelve year period. So there's your operating with fewer democrats threat. I like I, am very worried about it. I think we ve had a thousand organizers in the state knocking doors for a year, and you would have thought you can bring more new people into the process, so that is concerning. There are some factors here that I think are worth at least addressing one is
People were very unsure, just Angela all people we talk too, as we like one around people
about their son, and if you know this person or this person orientalists two three and it's hard to commit,
go to a very cold night, together with three hour caucus when you're not passionate for one person because cock, as has always been enthusiasm. The second issue is the Caucasus, not part of the conversation for the last ten days, normally that there is a huge ramp up for it, but we,
I've had impeachment ever cable channel has instead of having can
It's on. Rachel models been cancelled for a week. Basically, you can show impeachment, and then copyright is another thing like getting political people. We don't think and if not, how non political news stories affect rent passive political observers, ability of consent, political Newsnight, like the ice hockey,
was at best, the third biggest story in the country. In the run up to an that's true- and I am just as it rests- countries up this
or is there, but I'm worried
not panicking about it, you can search.
Is he a scenario with that. Many undecided caucus growers and I think, some of the early data
show that more people than
usual, made up their minds in the last two days,
we sought in our precinct as well. When people really, I mean the weather, we all look at politics as we observe it is that you know people supporters are enthusiastic and passionate, don't like the other candidates and within the
using that we saw like the woman that gate that stood up to give this speech on behalf of Joe Biden to get people.
To come over to the Biden Corner, ended up happily Caucasus.
For Elizabeth Warren right after that, when they heard viable in a wholly with a whole bunch of other candidates,
ass ideologies, people into closer Yang Warren booted Sanders. So
there's that- and you have to think yourself if you're in Ireland, it could very. You could very easily think
I am absolutely gonna show up and
when twenty two make sure trumps, not president accurately fig,
at which these Canada, why right now so I'm gonna glance at no cost for a couple hours yet
look, I am worried, I mean the twenty. Sixteen turnout was about two hundred and seventy thousand people. The two thousand and eight turnout was about two hundred and forty thousand people so to dance point. I think it does speak to Natuzzi Adam Gap, and you know the conventional wisdom was that we might see higher than the two thousand and eight level, because there were so many campaigns, because there's so much organizing happening, it said
so that doesn't make me nervous, and it does make me even more nervous that there are probably some people who turned out who will leave feeling like their vote, didn't matter, and that is the worst thing of all, because that is what Republicans want us to think, which is that
nothing will change. All candidates are the same. So why try that's how they win in part of the way people dismiss this online and anti.
Lastly, while I was not a swing state anymore, but it is a state that we Kennedy to pick up to have a good chance of getting the Senate majority yeah weak as junior answers up, we have two very input.
How seats we have to defend here and so a process that left democratic voters disillusioned. Unless I can turn out in the fall,
while the results, but if you're, all the other campaigns right now, we are all the different campaigns. How'd, you sort of me
you're all the other campaigns right now we are all the different campaigns how'd, you sort of make the most of at least where we think these Canada gonna end up as you head into New Hampshire, the head of the New Hampshire primary on Tuesday, like you just what we're gonna arguments, are they all making do think it's really hard because you, you don't really know anything,
right. I think because the most likely scenario for me is it just: is the race in stasis
for another. You know we have a state of union Tuesday night. They ve got two days to campaign there we got a big debate,
frightened night guess some shit could go down
and then you ve got like through more days a campaigning than voting again. Here's my tip for all them
condescend to Hillary Clinton
a really shitty way at the debate and said: if you like well enough, don't do that? Let's get a mean there is a way in which
I'm sure Bernie Sanders. If he turns out to be the winner was, I was denied a very important campaign moment. There is a way in which this actually ends up to his advantage, because he has the highest
or of any candidate in so as long as you have many viable candidates getting decent support, he has a big advantage, and so he is not. We who I was most a window. This field where we would find out of Buddha, judge or clover char were really had a shot or button or worn, and people would sort of start
To consolidate- and that did not happen so we're gonna, know probably know it is only the first. I will focus where maybe no one drops out after them
I would even call you might get in fact
This also speaks of the challenge for peace, which is PETE. If he ends up with the sd, was a dark
he'd benefited might away from Biden, not making viability and a war much larger portion of prisons in anyone ever could possibly imagine and then club
are being strong, but not strong enough to be viable everywhere we get in.
Sure. That's you would just get to vote for their person right and so.
PETE Strategy was probably do really well in Iowa.
Because you did well in Iowa, you look like you're the alternative to Joe Biden and Amy Clover jar and then even if Bernie does really well in Hampshire. Maybe your number two
and I guess I still happen for him, but he doesn't. Quite you might not have the boost that he would have had this thing up and so fucked up.
For Joe Biden, on the other hand, it gives him a chance to sort of sneak by offering,
never happened and sharpened aim should be like. I am still the most, so the most notable Kennedy. What I was saying, what he timer
It gets too. I think that's true externally.
Internally? Sometimes campaigns, interviews smacked in the head and of life
his campaign manager, one on our front, Abraham, spark ass and said they would be via one. Ninety two, ninety ninety five percent, a precincts and I were in clearly that did not happen.
There was no majority, a zero percent of though you precincts, we saw the USA, we know. We know that much now that he was and that bespeaks oath and organizational and a political weakness that they have to come to terms
then, if they have any shot of putting this together, succeeding in South Carolina and then being washing
to say some he's gonna have to change their. Sometimes you have to get knocked down. We ever get back up right.
That mean that he may not get that either. Out of this. It's interesting. You know the one
that I guess we
Hoping I would do is shake the race. Just
to people in the left lane we got to
have you no whatever three people in the moderate lane, and we just need something to shake this loose
to see who ends up being the final two or three competing and the fact that we may not,
result until later today, if after has prevented an opportunity for that shake up to take place,
I will say you know it. It seems- are pretty bleak today, but
do you have a lot of voting left and now
His primaries and carcasses happen very quickly and we have debates coming up that. I imagine that these coming debates will not be the friendly
where's that they were in Iowa. Maybe they will be, but I would imagine that, as we are starting to go on and end, there is a desire on all these campaigns to make sure that the field starts winnowing and they are part of the people who have not been winnowed. That
there may be some sharper elbows and there may be some more contrast as we get to these other states.
And I do think, even though it looks like a complete fuck up today, like by that
we get to New Hampshire and then Nevada and then by the Temperance, South Carolina. You know it could this this. This chaos could be a distant memory, also make one just one slightly hopeful.
In that it was actually also striking to me, coming to see some of these candidates in their some speech in the final days to see how many of them became such stronger candidates-
while being an island
left without a result, but Elizabeth Warren PETE Buddha judge
Bernie Sanders. You know I was struck, Amy closure. I was struck by how much they have gained, despite being in an intimate form of campaigning for so long, and I think that
bubbly, true of lot of the organizers who learned a lot being on the ground and doing this kind of politics as well. So I think this is curtains for the Iowa caucuses.
I do I do mean Dan was making a compelling case for this being the last I will carcasses before the results, given the very obvious need to give more power to diverse voices in the country. I think there needs to be a small state, early
processing of retail politics? Otherwise you could run a campaign by sitting in a satellite city, New York and just doing tv hits all day
pike, chastity Oda, like India, Pakistan away, but you know I had great run. I just can't imagine that their first again yeah and not just the state of I obviously
Hocker process itself. You talk, as is our dumb yeah. It seems like there is no defence.
No reason to have elections? This complicated
look again when we control it's not like allow. We have to pass like election reform, which is really tough. It's the party. We can
not design. We totally discordant as someone who like loved working and I love being there with a bomb. I did a viper series on the outcome is like the thing I loved about the causes is what love it was ass, though your dear organizing, at the grass roots that Canada are getting better
you're, having real conversation to voters for taking her questions, are talking of the press, like you get put through the ringer in this grassroots way, but that's not specific to a state any state could take.
That responsibility if they want and it doesn't need to culminate in a carcass in culminate in a primary, you can have all the same retail politics in a place that
where everybody can vote. People with disabilities always can vote. People have to work, can vote,
there's plenty razor this day and you read a that's cricket dot right now this morning you got up and felt like a
Well, it is time to look on my counter. This morning said analyze caucus results, and I would also like to know whether you are those little bit about what you wrote sure I was struck last night by how the complications, in
Denmark and varied coming democratic process which are complicated well beyond Iowa we're proportional,
occasional delegates. It has very messy
gonna take a long time to get the result in California exactly and letting you know now. Everyone and washed up
start, but that is how that, with such a ripe target for bad actress who
so divisions within the party. Just in this twitter era, the slightest
How can we turn into a massive conspiracies amplified by the twitter com, the President states and we may
stay the union tonight and
that fuel cynicism and what fuels?
This is some hurts our particles. We, we are completely dependent on encouraging people to come into the process to make them feel it
RO counts in the democratic process is very, does not making you feel that way, a candidate in a primary human congressional district by many points and end up with the exact same number delegate's as the opponents, and so I came over some ideas of how not this time the ethics it now but going forward. We could do it, we should at times they get rid of carcasses. We should go to winner, takes all so ever gets the most votes. Estate gets the delegates. It would also make the process
water, which I think would benefit everyone and then rang choice voting, because what I think is actually really wonderful about Iowa is you need to appeal to the
for other candidates, succeed here the grid in that,
and where we saw that an appeal.
Inspiring way in the Caucasus. We ran gear. People are like you, may be Bernie person, you may be a blind person, but the bring people over there trying to get the buying people
Hocker with which it is like in its inspiring ways like no one. No one was me, and you know it's very it's very, unlike what are, and I think, but that that the fact that you need to be
we'll second choices, and I what minimizes negative campaigning real minimizes division,
so if you went, fuels party unity in along. So if you went to a rigorous system, I think it would fuel party unity in the long term,
then the other thing that I'm really struck by the ILO carcasses basely about a thousand of the best organizers in the party have been here for a year they ve packed every door. Theyve accumulated all this data and they ve built really strong local political power and they're all getting on a plane to earn their living
They're not coming back. So what? If we did this in states where you would want them to all stay in wind for the nominee like I? What used to be you know eight and twelve
and so, if you had a system that was content or
That's a main, your Michigan Georgia's, nor Arizona near the front line than I think they would not
some costs in what we spend organizers.
I totally agree in the swings. I think, as some people are saying, what would be a better state to do it in some Illinois
This is like I don't wanna put a bunch of people in a state
gonna win in the general, the matter. What like? Let's pick some swing states, some real swing, states or states that are tending towards us. Like a joy,
errors, and it does not to be a hardened process. It doesn't have to be Kansas is first forever rotating rotate aid so that such a silly
only the only dynamic against for sure is a national primary law. The states and one that terrible it. This is MIKE Bloomberg, would be spending more money than ever won by a factor of a hundred new, probably went our advertising bluebird, but it like that's distorting the process. You want that the grass root aspect of this is good, some of them to go under
and convince people and build an organization from the ground up is good, and you want to couple couple chances to go
right to pick the right? You don't wanna have one day and then
you're down and you you're gonna, be like an hour stuck with this person. We didn't get to see them grow through
as of difference,
Have you met Democrats? We love a flight, a fancy. You know on that now
all right. We will then I will talk to you on Thursday after we have some more results and we can talk about the STI, hopefully
about the state of the union, that will happen tonight, the whole mother.
What's goin on our wealthier triumphant president,
we'll be acquitted on Wednesday. Just a just a ban.
Are we hear of say let's
let's hope this is the bottom. Everybody a balanced our climate
pod, save America's a product of cricket media, the senior producers, Michael Martinez, arson
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Transcript generated on 2020-02-22.