The Trump Administration is caught lying about Iran, the public sours on the President’s handling of the crisis, and the Des Moines Register poll shows a very close race in Iowa between Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, and Joe Biden. Then Varshini Prakash of the Sunrise Movement talks to Jon L. about climate change and the group's endorsement of Bernie Sanders.
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I welcome the POD save America, I'm John Baron, Andromeda untimely death or later in the pod love it's interview with our sheeny Prakash. The climate activist who leads the sunrise
First, we're gonna talk about the trouble administrations latest lies about IRAN and how the public perceives his handling of the crisis, but also a big
weak in the twenty twenty primary
from a new domain registrar, pull. That shows a wide open race to the next debate on Tuesday night
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Place of our normal Thursday pod, so big debate, big debate
Let's get the news. You guess what
this. But it appears that the Trump Administration is lying about the reason that they lead us to the brink of war with IRAN.
There original rationale for us,
fascinating, causing Sola money was that he was planning an imminent attack. That was the word imminent and trump
since elaborated on this telling Lord Ingram, that for U S, embassies were targeted.
But this has now been contradicted by Secretary of state, might pump Hale, who said that
acts were imminent, but that quote, we dont know per
Lastly, when, and we don't
precisely where interesting, interesting definition of eminent is
usually time, but at the time based condition, I thought. But who knows that was,
so contradicted on Sunday when Defence secretary Mark.
Esper said that he hadn't seen any intelligence to indicate that the four embassies were targets, but that call
what the president said was. He believed it probably could have been true
and where is the main sunk legal and that's all? I was gonna write that I've been. I wake up this morning to an embassy new story that says
trumpet apparently authorize the assassination of solemn money seven months ago
explains why it was on the menu of options that was provided to him too,
Do you see any way the straight could be legally justified if, in fact,
there was no imminent attack planned, which it looks like there wasn't. I think it's important
remember that there is a debate is important about whether its legal, but that doesn't mean smart policy right. So there are two filters with which to view this: the legality questions
complicated as international others, domestic law, the law
this last shaky, because domestic lies precedent set by various administrations.
Well see opinions that are that are built on your previous action
in none of that is necessarily legal person
or right, because there's no one to adjudicate these steps, except for us, the vote or so
the administration has offered like five different claims. Now for the eminence right love, it mentioned last week that MIKE Pence was tweeting about nine slash eleven in Tehran. That was novel for a few hours until she
and they do seem to have latch onto this eminence claim.
They say that they are acting in self defence because of imminent threat from solar money, but they ve undercut that argument now several ways. The first is that the first day,
and out of the idea that either the strike didn't mention imminent. So it seems like they ve cobbled together their legal justification after the fact.
Second, the nature of this imminent threat, keep changing. Was it a threat to the Baghdad embassy trumps suggests it was a threat on four different embassies
but none of those embassies were notified about a threat, you'd. Think of your working, an embassy with this scary, big threat, you'd, be told about it and maybe told the act accordingly. Heads up,
Third, they refuse to provide evidence of this imminent threat to Congress, including to the gang of eight who get briefed on like everything, even the most sensitive stuff, and are also sought to consult with Congress beforehand or pass. That point
so. It does seem like they ve latched onto this eminence as their legal rationale, but it
not holding water and ultimately they can prove it taken decline.
If whatever they want trump, can walk, Sean handed in Theo VON show em all the until that he's got. But the thing to remember is that you know
the voters are the one that will kind of adjudicate these claims yet lover, that's it! I guess what? Where does this leave us now right like it? It's
it reminds me of some of the shifting exe
nations around the Ukraine scandal. Remember it was well. There was a quid pro quo.
That would be bad, but there's no quid pro quo and there is a quid pro quo and then I got a good programme as a matter. So it's like now. You know you you could
station. I mean this is what's happening, didn't really care
this imminent attack explanation- any more trouble
basically just out there saying well he's a bad guy
get to kill bad guys. If I want that's the deal and Democrats love bad guys and I dont know kill them, that's it seems like that. He is politically comfortable
go with that argument? In saying I don't really give a shit if you prove that we're all lying about this imminent attack, stuff right, yeah me, I think you know the imminence defence is not really. They ve not relieving, really try to make an argument that not only was there a clear, imminent threat that killing Sola money would have prevented it. They ve not made any argument
that and by the way, national security officials in the trumpet Ministry
going on television, saying they can't back up what the President saying is out is a big deal as well in part because this
two things are. Only two ways can be true: either one presence lie.
Which obviously, what's going on or too there was an imminent threat
against Americans around the world and various people charged with protecting Americans. Don't
know about it. The president knew about it and nobody else knew about it more, including a secretary of including a secretary of defence didn't have the information, the other pieces,
Do you know where
and there's so many ways in which what Europe is doing is reprehensible. Once they also not told
We do not provide any of this intelligence to beginning of eight. These are the eight people have Democrats apropos
Since they are the leaders in the Senate
it in the house and the leaders of the intelligence committee- and you know
they've insinuated over the course of the past, whatever we can have that they could entrust these people with this intelligence.
And it is worth remembering we're talking about
Anti Blowsy Chuck humor, Adam Schiff and market,
It is obviously not impugning the Republicans. He is based
making a claim that these for human beings cannot be trusted with sensitive national security information that is horse.
These are some of these? Are the most trustworthy people between our government he treated, the tumor would tell the Aramaeans I mean
look o o bomber took an expanded, take on the definition of imminent when it came to our Keitel leaders. You didn't have to be amassing troops on a border planning to invade us for the US to think that was in
imminent threat. If you were a senior operational Al Qaeda leader who is plotting attacks on Americans,
all day, every day, Obama
justice, department or I'll see everybody between believe that we could take a lethal force against individuals, but
you know, equating we're at war with Al Qaeda and
equating that rationale for how you a deal with an Al Qaeda operational leaders with customs alimony, whose a senior general in IRAN
big deal and the risk of escalation is enormous. Musha just pause to say that, since the strike we sent tens of thousands warships, the Middle EAST Isis missions in this training missions are,
caused? The iraqi government is voted this out around stepped away
the iranian Nuclear Deal and we learned the Trump ordered a
I can strike against another ire GC target. Who was a talk commander and Yemen clearly that guy wasn't posing an imminent threat, but there's
all the risk of escalating a war with IRAN. By taking out that individual was going to say, I think the law
this matter. Yes, because of the consequences of what happens next Trump said
Iran was cheating on there,
deal. He lied telling it was not true
pulled out of IRAN deal and now look where we are all the chaos that has followed is because he lie.
And got away with it and then just pulled out of the radio. Now he has.
Lied about an imminent attack on you
interest in you, as forces, or at least has failed to provide the evidence even tried to provide evidence and now all the consequences that Tommy just mentioned,
plus. Whatever happens from here on a right, it's one thing:
escalation happens still about them. Both
funding of escalation happens because there was an imminent attack on our own
sir? Are you s interests and we tried to stop it and then
Iranian just going from there
there was no imminent attack and we see further consequences from this than that
and it was just a decision. The trump made not based on a matter.
ever he decided with the roots and to do this because you want to take back because he wanted to appeal
Republican senators ecosystem, whom I wrote in a victim in a which we, which we also
about last week. To that part, part of the reason he did this, because you begin pressure from republican centres who he needed to acquit him in the impeachment
because he saw an attack on our
Missy on television. He's already basically said that we know that, based on reports, what was happening at the time that this wasn't, because somebody came to him and said you know. Mr President, we have this incredibly times, have information about solemn money directing attacking us Americans, we know
but that is not the inciting incident. They basically said so and back they. The
before they realized we're gonna go back to the imminence argument, yeah, and so I went out and go back to what Tommy said a little
months ago, which is the election really is through the only way to check this because last week in Congress, what we saw play- I was you know they try that the House past the war powers wrestle
chicken, and they got a few Republicans on board, but problem.
And go anywhere in the Senate. There was a separate bill
that I know you guys have talked about time, imposing the world where democratic, pushing legislation that would cut off any funding for armed conflict with IRAN unless it is explicitly authorized by Congress, doesn't seem like that. Has a big chance of passing either you seen when
even Matt Gate, Sir or Michael Yosemites, Republicans even momentarily criticise the idea that may be the president is all powerful and can declare war, and
assassinate people whenever he once they get in
so much trouble from other Republicans and then have to go a grovelling back to Donald Trump really pathetic
No really, I think that you know it's. We have a complete unconstrained president that deal
Action is the only way to the elections on going December threat, while you can
as I and here I mean it. If they could pass the rope Conor Bernie Sanders build that would prevent Trump from spending money on offensive operations against IRAN. I think that is a pretty strong step.
Could take. I think the legislation that was just passed in the house
on binding tribute plus you didn't want trumped up veto it. I'm not sure why. I should think that that's good politics, if he's vetoing
efforts to stop him from going to war in IRAN in doing it twice. I believe you did that
when one is well, but I mean that the biggest concern
ain't that we ve seen so far on Trump. I think is this ABC newspaper that showed how unpopular war with IRAN so yeah, let's side by Paul,
the ABC News Paul released on Sunday found that fifty six percent of people disapprove the way the President trumpets handling the
situation with IRAN and at fifty two percent of people believe that the decision to assassinate Sola has made the United States less safe, but also
seventy three percent of people were either very, are somewhat concerned about the possibility of the United States in IRAN entering into a full scale war and a few other poles have basically fund similar results since this crisis,
began so much for the big win for Trump HA
it is reassuring is reassuring, though you know it
it can be reassuring- that the american people do not trust Donald Trump to lead the military. They do not trust him.
Take national security in they. Don't trust him when he offers rationales again, as it is good too
that, for all of the, I think that trepidation, that the rules of politics don't apply to Donald Trump. You know the american people have been paying attention and Donald Trump does not get the benefit of the doubt.
Does not get a presumption of good faith or responsibility they. He is generally viewed as
callous and dangerous, and that applies when he is taken these kinds of unilateral action. I mean Tommy
You think about this, but I also see that you know. There's like pundit brain is, is a bit stuck in two thousand and one two thousand.
Two and it used to be that you know showing force, equals political strength and politics right and Democrats are always push to? You got to look tough on terrorists and terrorism, just like Republicans, cuz, that's what the politically popular, but I do think
you know two decades later, as were now still in the middle of two wars, and have lost how, however many soldiers over
over these years and still have people fighting in these wars. I think there
also are war weariness that that enters into the politics, just as much as a while that politicians is tough because they use military force against a bad guy. I think that
True, I mean I do think that the legacy of the Iraq war is that a lot of happy talk in advance of a military conflict is no longer seems believable to a lot of people
let me add that we heard that Dick Cheney really said we'd be greeted as liberators is so unbelievably absurd when you think about it all these years later, that I think-
but this time around were rightly very concerned. Seventy three percent in fact, were very concerned or somewhat concerned about the possibility of the: U S and IRAN entering into a full scale war and that's a good thing.
I mean yeah because we're not in control of what happens next, when you decide to kill a top general of another country, they have a hand in this. Yes, ok, lots of twenty
and used to talk about on Friday afternoon. The famously accurate domain registrar Paul had Bernie Sanders at twenty percent Elizabeth worn at seventeen percent PETE Buddha judge at sixteen percent, Joe Biden at fifteen percent.
Close on his heels, not sure at eleven percent
No one else, crack double digits and was just a few weeks left to go,
forty percent of likely caucus. Goers say that they have made up their minds, mine
the astute political analysis is that this raises wide open its anyone's end
was race. Anything can happen. What's your take that you take love it, and I think it is a you know.
You set it in a dumb way was true. If you don't like that that that, between whatever the vigour
of polling and just the way up the Caucasus, will unfold across Iowa. I dont really think you can get that much more specific, especially with this moment holding
at the showed binding the leaders of burning low. Yet let's go. Let's go to those numbers quickly. Oh Mamma pull him out today, smaller sample size
doesn't know, I quite as well as the two my register puzzled, but it's also bind
before Sanders eighteen PETE Seventeen warrant fifteen. That was that was the multiple.
And anyway, all all that I think like burdens to seeing Bernie Biden, Peat and Warren all kind of in in not in
tension and I think a lot of a lot of this is hard to predict because it plays out in, like a genuine debate, conversation
people moving around a Jim in Iowa and Angela
do with the enthusiasm of the people that show up the caucus for various candidates, right like if you come at this, with the presumption that Bernie
and Warren supporters, or any more enthusiastic in a carcass, then then Biden, supporters of that the presumption you're going.
With well. It might mean that you know as thing shake out various caucuses. Some of those people move from Biden to Warren into Bernie, depending on what happened in that room Tommy.
Did you ever? We Samir take place, so I mean I can't just the first thing for people and now is that in the joint venture, Paul really as the best in the business and the sample size is huge. They talked with seven hundred voter, so this is probably the most accurate Paul
and, though probably do one more before cocked his days into something to keep an eye out, for I thought a couple things one
nice and other traditional politics works right I mean Warren gotta. Leave people criticise her. She dipped in the polls. She can rebounded here, peak gotta, lead people criticized Emmy dipped in the polls he saw him
rebound. If I were Bernie, I would be very happy about this for a long. It's just felt like it.
Literally hard to see his support like at the at the Democratic Party.
In her that I attended in Iowa like his folks weren't, there's it's hard to know what's going on, but so very good number for them. I will
happy. If I were worn that I rebounded
that's a shot in the arm. She probably wants and needs going to this. Peat has the biggest universe of people that is deemed to be considering him. So that's good news for him
and I honestly like I would want to be in a better place. If I were Biden it's worth noting the mammoth full they have him leading, but it still interest
that he has run that hard in Iowa. I think people would argue he doesn't have the most sophisticated organization, but he still hang in tough there. Fifty
so a few things that jumped out at me. I mean I am fascinated with the
thirty two percent of voters here who are currently split between
undecided, clover, Char, Yang, Booker style Chelsea? Where did they go?
right, because the candidate that so thirty two percent
people are either undecided are not supporting one of the top for candidates who are all about fifteen percent and, of course, as you all learn from
pod, save America, Iowa, there's a fit
the present viability threshold and so once the cock, as happens on caucus night? If you don't have your, can it doesn't hit fifteen percent? You go to another
you're, the upper that's that's precinct by precinct, rightly regular. Seventeen hundred or so many elections happening on caucus night and in each of those. You have that fifteen percent support to be able to get delegates out of that precinct right.
You can see in the top line of the pole- is where their support is distributed. Do people have a ton of support?
towns and not as much across rural parts of ILO, are they more evenly distributed. So anything Bernie Sanders Ready, would point you
so you can see that the polish is great. You can eat,
break it out by rural suburb and city. They have the sub samples rules pretty
evenly split. The Warren is actually slightly had peace winning in the suburbs, and then the city looks basically like the pole with Bernie, but there's just a bit of a late. Does that thirty two percent, though that basically,
is going to have to disperse between these or or might have to disperse, between these work for candidates that that's the whole
right there, especially when these four countries are so close to each other, and so they they did some polling of this thirty two percent and
Fifty five percent of them are considering Buddha Judge fifty three Biden, forty three are considering Warren and forty one percent or considering Sanders
So in Flanders is the second choice of eleven percent of these Hocker's go. So I agree with me that this is very good news for Bernie Sanders. This entire pull, also because
Sixty per cent of Bernie Supporters mines are made up that's higher than any other candidate. Fifty percent are very enthusiastic compared to thirty two four warrant or twenty six for binding Buddha judge. So he's got back on form, but I thought
the only warning sign for Bernie Is- and this has been
question all along. Does he have a ceiling right like when
look at that other thirty, two percent, in how they're gonna distribute themselves you no fewer
were considering Bernie than some of the other candidates he's the second choice of fewer of these undecided than other people, so that is that something
watch, the one thing that people should know it's been covered a little bit, but not that much is it. This year the Iowa Democratic Party is releasing more information. They're going to release the pre realignment raw vote totals so before that hold viability, discussion we just talked about where people are used to see. If you got fifteen percent or not they're, going to release that count and they're going to release the count
after people realign the second council who knows how that, while just be viewed by the Pandit Doc receive the other thing I would say is like
I follow a lot of the Warren Iowa team on Twitter. I don't follow as many of other campaign, so they could have been doing this to buzz notable that there was like a giant blizzard over the weekend, and these kids are all out just canvassing their asses off from from dust till dawn in eleven degree. Whether and if you're, in
a whirl precinct where, like twenty people show up- and you feel
Those extra too there were on nobody else, is radar screen and bring him in a race that split among this many candidates. That can be the difference. I do think like organization this year could be even more important than ever for sure.
I do want to go through just each of the top candidates and just talk about where they are in this Paul. So Buddha Judge, you know he he basically dipped the most out of anyone
between poles- he lost nine percent since the last Paul. He, though
favour. Ability rating also took a hit his and
everybody is climbing up a little bit. I think, as as Tommy was saying, this is also a consequence of you know being in the lead people start taking
out to you, though he still does have sixty percent.
They are considering him in some capacity. That is the biggest number of any these candidates, which tells me that he is
HU, a lot of people like Inner her considering, but he just has not closed the deal with a lot of people. So there are a lot of question
people have about people. It is that he is not answering yet many.
Maybe some of it has to do with liked ability. Some of that has to do with he's competing for a lot of the same voters as Joe Biden and a lot of people see Biden as a safer alternative
he's not so much in the liberal in any more as he used to be earlier. I think that's like a big challenge room. It is so interesting to the elect ability, peace, each of these candidates, Bernie Buying Peat and
and they each have an liability case, it they're making for themselves and they each have a pretty tough case against their elected
he being made against them right by their opponents and- and I do really think you feel
in these shifting numbers how those
stability arguments are resonating because for each of them there are linked with the case in some ways perspective right. You know, Bernie said you know
Ass. I am further laughed in and that might dissuades a moderate but were. But this is the only way to building
Suzy Azzam get out the new voters and and the young voters we need to win in Abiden talks about the moderate case. Peat has intellect ability argument. Warren has a and economic
argument. I think one of the reasons this does still feel so wide open.
We had into the final into a final days for the I will caucus is because
None of those arguments are persuasive, none of them that no one has a person
some flexibility argument and no,
has it a persuasive argument against the elect ability of any these candidates- and so were just every everyone, I think field
that kind of uncertainty, and I think it has just been playing out in the polls just week. After week after week, well, because
so Bernie Sanders is had the biggest gain of any candidate between last bone, Paul five points, but the biggest gain
last poem is Paul was undecided which gained six points. So the very unsettled raised today,
Joe Biden, if I was your Biden,
I would be worried that my support is a little soft, yet he is the least enthusiastic supporters. Only twenty two percent have a very favourable view of Joe Biden, which has the lowest very favourable among the candidates, and only forty four percent of his supporters have made up their minds, which is
slower than Bernie and a little bit lower than peat and worn too. So I think that something I thought that there is an interesting question which is of all these factors, which the most important factor to you in choosing the candidate most important make up your mind, number one: a candidates
We need to unite the country. Sixty nine percent said that was extremely important. I was just about to bring this up. I mean we allow
thus online Mark Joe Biden for talking about Republicans coming to their senses, trying to work with Mitch, Mcconnell- and I think rightly given the history of how much Mcconnell is operated over the past. Well, since that piece of shit was born, but it's what voters want here, Sir
Times things might sound pie in the sky and naive on the campaign trail, but its incredibly appealing to voters, and maybe they have seen that will look the hill
another interesting sat on that they also added bring on Republicans and independence,
November as an option in fifty percent said. That was extremely important, but that's a big difference between fit
the in sixty nine fur unite the country, people dont know.
Essentially, I think that the democratic it is going to be. You know unite Republicans with us and and fix things in Washington and change Mitch Mcconnell, but as they want their democratic candid,
to try just because the other side's gonna be shit. They don't want
to be shipped to. They want you to at least try to reach out and look sixty nine percent in an extremely important. That means it's a lot of birth,
Zander supporters, who believe that it's a lot of Elizabeth, worn supporters who believe that too, such as Biden, booted, judge people. What does I think to taken is the most divorce thing from them.
Conversation yeah, but I also think part of it too. Is that the the way that unit
has played out inside of the primary it has become ideological, which it doesn't have to be
Biden, has spoken about unity and often in the same breath, has talked about what Tommy's referencing the ability to appeal to Republicans them coming to their senses. Be a consensus in the country would at what have you on policy, but I mean there's
way to talk about unity.
It's not about giving in on key policy questions. It's about. Rhetoric is about being an alternative to Donald Trump, about not giving in to the kind of scorched earth rhetoric
that Donald Trump uses all the time, and that is that is something I think, every
body feels everybody, including you know, some of the most leftwing part,
of our party. You know the that that, though the one thing I would say about about about Bernie Sanders is incredibly tough on Donald Trump, of course,.
But in the way that he actually campaigns, he has his villains, but there is a kind of on there.
Inspiration and positivity to the way he approaches the problems that were,
and solve in the way we're gonna come together as a country without ever giving in on your key like values. Questions are key policy question. No, I think, thee
Should we fight, or should we all get along debate, has been viewed as I
the logical by a lot of reporters and a lot of pundits, and it doesn't necessarily have to be there
different things. There's an ideological debate within the party about policy,
and then there is, you know, bringing the country,
there were six fighting which then this is
hard to hear and voters are complicated. You tightwad voters and they want both want someone to shake up Washington and up in this
because it's not working for them and fight all the core
a special interest in Washington and they went home from some bring the country together. I also you know when they don't see two conflicting, they don't hosting, but this just in the past few days. You know
again, the now used to it because of know, but like Kevin Mccarthy, the republican leader in the either
going until television saying you know, basically that you know Democrats are sympathetic to solar money. Their sympathy.
There's the solemn I met. You know all the Republican saying
We weren't we mourn Sewell money
You know where on earth who are on the same ones, who a money side were poligized from what have you and it just? What have I got? What should he fucking coworkers
the extra you work with Nancy Policy on a daily basis, and- and so it is this crazy things like oh people, why
something that gets beyond this kind of politics when were fighting against aside. That has just become just so toxic and and and- and I do
understand why people view the way Biden talks about it as naive and yet and yet there are still this pull that we all have of something better and yes, it's not
on us completely and no, we can't solve it. We can't make Republicans act like better, more civilised,
human beings, and yet we still want our candidates to at least believe it's possible enemies will do their part.
Lesson this sort of toxic environment. Even if we're not
honourable, and even if we don't give in on key policy, no it we're we're. Joe Biden should get too, as I do want to work with. These Republicans can Mccarthy's an asshole. Just send me better about the kids. We're gonna beat this crops find some better beat disk or one other,
Anything unlike debility, so am I
voters who who have
up their mind already elect ability?
actually less of a concern in this pole, but among the persuadable carcass
Those who haven't made up their minds, yet fifty nine percent think it's extremely important that we can be dont from so
where started decide towards then this, maybe it's not surprising but like elect ability, is how a lot of these people its nose
I said Elizabeth Worn is closing hard on Elect ability message. She socking less about big structural change, she's talking about how she could unite the party, unite, coalitions and d,
you know barely anti war and talking points that will talk about in a second, also criticise her ability to get elected. I think that
Anecdotal evidence that I've seen and I read newspapers- is that almost led. The device
I think as you from us, I will talk scores. Is it they're scared, shitless they're gonna make the wrong choice in the dollar trump we'll get reelected in their choosing. Accordingly, and frankly, I get it
on there yeah. No, I hear that too, and your right she's making electricity case. Bernie Sanders has been making the electricity case for a while. I imagine that on Tuesday night will see a lot of that, one,
pulling thing. That's non demand register related before we move on to the latest skirmishes and the primary
Tom Steyer will be on the debates stage, marinate after two very good pulse.
Fox NEWS that have em in second place in South Carolina at fifteen percent second place to Joe Biden and tied for three.
Place in Nevada with twelve percent. What
let's go on our Tom, dire guys that plant came to play. I think tv at work
you know what I mean, especially when you have to take when you have an open playing field like certainly. It is true that when
a general election in one side, spending a billion and once I'd spending a billion to maybe it ends up being a wash. I don't have to smarter people to figure out, but when we,
candidate is running like a thousand points of positive Bio tv ads for months. At a time,
of course, people are gonna, learn that individuals name may be figure called. They haven't thought about the race. Much say: oh yeah, that's dire guy, some, a tv I like that, tie you where's every time and
for you know, you can kind of
by your way into account and interests in these debates and things it's not great. But look that said I
Do you think that this is why I was arguing last week I think Bernice a front runner, because I think that all of this stuff shifts very quickly once there is a result and peoples are really really paying it yeah. I think I am
I am inclined to sign onto that, take after, after the
we, the last of IRAN's no just because I was thinking like look if Joe Biden,
doesn't win an Iowa if he ends up in third or fourth Bernie
very good position in New Hampshire and burning
the position of ETA and you do get bounces once
start winning some of these cognisant primary states, and even if,
but by men, winds in South Carolina,
you know, depending on who stolen the razor who has dropped out, I think losing the first three races.
Even if you have a solid wall of support among black voters, which Joe Biden does it becomes much harder once you've lost three in a row, why does it burn he's doing better than I expected in to do among african american voters pulled in a watch?
possible side. You think here name, I D probably has a lot to do with a lot of these national pulls. The trip
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and the cinders campaigns already throwing a few punches in the past few days. Bernie continued.
Criticise binds vote to authorize the war in Iraq, a back and forth at roped in former secretary
State John Kerry, Abiden supporter whose come to his defence on this issue,
it's the best surrogate on that. But meanwhile, the culture of burmese campaign Nina Turner, Road and opted for South Carolina newspaper this week, in which he accused Biden repeatedly betraying African Americans in the state Turner, criticized Biden on everything, from working with segregation, senators to pass position on welfare reform to come
justice, what do you think a strategy here is behind hitting by specifically on Iraq and then on racial and criminal justice? Is it smart? You know the interest
the interesting thing about that are bad for jaws. Withering me, just incredibly, tough contrast is the
its framed. Is voters in South Carolina have a choice: it's either Bernie or its Biden and part of what they are
It is not just about going after Biden, it's about pushing
with Warren aside as a choice in that conversation that basically like there's the left candidate,
There's the moderate candidate and here's how you should adjudicate that that decision, trying to kind of push her out of that debate,
if I were not warrant campaign very frustrated by that, I don't know that it's a stupid thing for the burning campaign to do. Would you data
You think the Iraq conversation it's obvious units to contrast, that burning centres is highlighted. Every
along the way at his campaign. But I imagine that the bat that voters are more focus on foreign policy now than they would normally be because of the around strikes, and so you know, I think, binds struggle to defend that.
So would give me pause if our his team- and it would give me some hope that its ineffective critique, if I were Bernice team, I may I do think, there's an easy answer there, which,
We were lied to you by the Bush administration about the intelligence case for WMD. We were like that they would exhaust all efforts it diplomacy before going to war. That said, it was a mistake to trust them. There was a mistake to vote for the authorization and I feel like that, would put it to bed rather than trying to do this process of educating voters about what you believed thee
The rotation vote to be. How is supposed to go to that you. I mean Hilary tried a lot of this against Obama and it was devastatingly effective for Obama against her,
trotting out John Kerry. Someone whom I respect enormously but who lost the two thousand for election because of his Iraq were voting, is an inability to explain or defend it. In some ways it doesn't seem like the best strategy,
The two overlapping groups of voters that Biden and Bernie are both competing for are working class, whites, Non college, educated whites in the Democratic Party or still no makeup one slash four with third of the democratic coalition and black voters, and very few of the other candidates are doing well among either of those groups right so tall by men. Bernie fighting for those- and I think Bernie strategy here is to say to those groups of voters, look at our records in the past so and who you trust. Mortgage
forward Joe Biden was for NAFTA. Joe Biden voted for the Iraq war, Joe Biden Report for the bankruptcy bill, Joe Biden vote for the crime, but you know like Bernie Centre for the criminal to, but
he's under the other is not mentioned in the measure that up in the air it it's a bit he's got. It he's, got appeal often
does voters by asking people to look into the past, I think if I was buying, you want to keep pressing forward. You are pressed for here. You want to tell people to look ahead and not
worry about the passenger? Here's where I am now I've come out strongly against,
this alimony assassination. I've learned my angel. What he hasn't.
Would you should, as I've learned my lessons for Iraq right and when we were to be
surgeon, Afghanistan. I was the one who said no, I don't want em
war on a want weena like buying, can tell a story but learning lesson. What that, how that shapes him his views going forward.
He's been progressive on economic issues throughout the Obama administration as progressive as most of the parties, and he
talk about that Bernie wants to bring it to the past. I think that's gonna be an interesting dynamic, as we made an interesting to see that on Tuesday night, it's it's, it's a really taps.
For binding, because you know his cases inexperienced
He makes it all the time my wisdom, my experience and then Bernie can just go through and say what did your experience get us? Look at all these different ways
your career in a we look back on it and the things
that make up the sum total of your experience are an indictment of the system as we currently have it, whether its on trade or on foreign policy and of all of your experience were in.
Not what was in taking positions that are now anathema to the democratic base was worth to us yeah? I think we're button
a smart Biden. Rejoinder would be yellow.
You want to raise taxes on middle class people and you
We did that and I'm gonna go and remember
about my ears when I was there and everything was going well, you like that. That's what I'm offering you! Yes, it is now a sort of his is a u status quo ante message from the beginning was: am we're Obama right exactly
So the more surprising contrast from the cinders campaign came in the form of a volunteer script.
Political got hold of the script. Health
Andrews volunteers to tell potential voters that, even if they like
Elizabeth Warren Quote: she's bringing new
New basis to the Democratic Party, and that quote the people who support her are high
educated, more affluent people we're going to show up and vote democratic
no matter what wars
on Sunday that she was quote disappointed to hear that Bernie is sending his volunteers out to trash me sand
and senior aids from his team. Didn't challenge the authenticity of the script, but they said they had seen or approved the talking points
What's what's the strategy here? What how big a deal of the skies?
Look. This isn't the harshest attack of ever seeing the candidate and its by not the arduous attack. We will read this week, but it speaks to the fact the Burmese trying to close the delectable, the argument and he sees warrant supporters as potential Santer supporters. No surprise
it also seems to me, like Warren, wanted this fight
want a giant like they have seize the moment to respond to Bernie and say it was a response in that she's on defence is a way of
beginning to do away with the data that existed between them for this period. Until now
now. If I were Warren basic
When you do something like this, when you attack or you respond to attack, you kick up coverage of the attack right and if I were worn, I would be a little more worried about voters being educated, about a belief that I can
when and I'm not electable be, as I dont bring other voters the table Dan people being educated on the fact that Bernie, as quote gun negative on me, I think that's a less salient attack in every election always forever. I could not agree with that. More I mean
What war and is trying to Duke, as I saw some of her campaign say this- is there now trying to make us
that she is the unity candidate in the party right that there is going to be a big segment of the democratic electorate
who says they're can be very upset if YO binds the nominee and a big segment of the democratic like her to say, they're gonna be upset
Bernie Sanders is the nominee and very few people say: they're gonna be upset
with warn the nominee. She is the most well liked of all the candidates in the
when register Paul, and I wish the highest favourably rating of anyone. She's also get a ninety three percent
relating among very low
RO voters in Iowa. Witches means that a lot of
people most Bernie people, probably who are backing Bernie in Iowa we'd, like war,
lets. She a reminder: twitters not realised by the way here, another one, but so she shows you right.
If she comes from this saying, none are no Bernie like debility argument is wrong. My like debility argument is that I can usually unite the party and bird.
Can't and neither can Joe Biden that I think is useful to Tommy's point. I think if
We get into this whole argued about whose mean too, who it said. It's not gonna, been as useful. It's gonna make some gonna make for some fuckin
miserable tweeting, but it's not gonna, really move the needle that much luck. We talked about this before. I do think
no one of the dynamics it's been running throughout this primary is there, I think, are a lot of people whose hearts are with Elizabeth Warren, but whose minds have told them that she's not electable, that you see that in some of the sway stay polls that have showed consistently, that Biden performs the best
Hence trump, then maybe Bernie and some others and Warren still winning, but but in a closer race against Donald Trump and has given a lot of people pause. What so lazy
move as regards timing. Bothering you investigate it anyway.
I do think, as unique argument is AY offensive electrically argument, as opposed to a defensive argument which it, what should have been stuck in for a very long time
What do you make of this awful CNN story?
morning that, when Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth worn met about the presidential race back and twenty eighteen Sanders reportedly told her, he
not believe a woman could win the story.
Based on the accounts of for people to people. Warren spoke directly with afterwards and to people
quite familiar with the meeting centres of a humanly denies. It and Warren spokesperson declined to comment altogether as it is. This is a report of a report of
port of a meeting in which is literally only one thing we know for certain about the meeting is at the two people at the meeting promise
not to attack each other out of a sense
mutual admiration and common purpose
that's the one thing we know for certain
I don't know why it lasted until you like this weekend. I think story
like this or could be a big deal if and only if the warrant campaign or her supporters decide to make it a big deal and accuse the campaign of sexism, La Thou would be a pretty serious.
Charge and an escalation. It is notable that Bernie is on the record saying this did not happen.
Yes, someone's gonna, ask warned about this, and the ideas were recording she's already answered it, but
yeah. I look at my advice on
in any story like this, that source to people familiar with meetings and people that heard third hand of it? That is just be very.
What about it? Don't overreact to it until you get more quotes from people directly involved. I do find it hard to believe
that if there was a meeting between Bernie and Warren, and he said,
I dont think a woman can win that it would have. They would have left
Good terms footmen and then be this friendly throughout the entire prior year and a half I mean like, perhaps it something between. Perhaps he talked about sexism that Hilary faced and how? How are you
deal with the sexism like who knows what will happen there, but it could also be something in between right, like it's start that it's completely made up
although I do believe that it's true so it sort of inner I also get to that like for the people involved in these campaigns. It is the home stretch. It has been agreed,
this year? It also been, I think, a tough few weeks further Elizabeth Warren campaign. I think they're frustrations to see ah Bernie having this sort of good run between endorsements and he had men had a heart attack,
and came fucking roaring back into the lead in these poles, endorsed by a and or
on movement. I think I understand that kind of frustration. That said, I do like worth remembering that these are probably the two most progressive members of the United States
Senate? They are on the same side in virtually all of the big fights we have as a country. They see
each other. That way, and I do think there is something more psychological, then Paul political in. I think the desire
to not just see your candidate as being better but and seeing the other candidate as unacceptable their revolt in there and just
just feels better at field. You want. I want to raise the stakes because, if you care, but
there's something emotional and the more you care about something the hire. You want the stakes to be inside of that choice, and I get that, but I really do hope that the supporters of both of these candidates do take a page from the way
Elizabeth Warren Embrace enters, has viewed each other over the course of this very long campaign, which is mostly as competitors on in that who,
the whole are on the same. In the same year, will the supporters are always more radicalizing staff in the steps? I was more radicalizing the candidates from the house
and we know this but look in his eyes and people on Twitter saying what is it
nearly, as is rough as the Obama verse,
Clinton primary in two thousand and eight and all three of us were there, and I can say you are correct, although it was so pretty early and left Canada's tend to stay relatively nice and positive before I. What because of this viability, threshold of your time earlier, because the second choice of your kennedys and viable after realign in people tend to just not like the actual candidate? That's been it.
Asking everybody and right less likely to go to them. So, for I view this as more strategic, then a moral choice but by everyone.
To be nice. It's worth noting that by
then made a similar comment where he talked about how Clinton was the victim of unfair sexes attacks and he added that's not going to happen with me. Think that was correctly viewed.
I many observers as six
casting that a woman couldn't win rather than an accurate observation that Hillary Clinton dealt with Shit, that Donald Trump didn't because of her gender right,
last thing before we go. There is news this morning that United States senator from New Jersey, Corey Booker dropped out of the presidential race, because some thoughts on on the Booker campaign and brokers,
you know. I, like I, have a soft spot for Cory Booker, because I liked him personally, but in part, because I really like his team, like we've, all worked with and know some of those people I got to know bunch of the Nile
They are like a little engine that could campaign who work their asses off in did it in the positive hopeful away, and I think they really acquitted themselves well, like. Obviously, everyone wants to win, but the vast
George kindred to run for president dont when rights really tough jobs,
will be seeing all of them in a general election campaign also speaks to what a weird hardier this was. You know I mean things are pretty static from the from the get go, and I think Booker was hoping that he could break through in Iowa with this relentless relentlessly optimistic message that he had, but because of the way the debris
restructured in some of the other national trends. He wasn't getting a look nationally that I think, prove more important and I would this year than hasn't past years. He wasn't gonna be in that debate this week,
So there at a money that of opportunities to get our media and decide that couldn't bake it over the finish line is by when I went. I did this once again.
Maybe sounds dumb, but when I saw that he dropped out, actually you know in the long run. I thought it might actually be good NEWS for Cory, Booker Goodnight, because I do think in part because I didn't
about of the way in which he unity has?
thought of as an ideological question throughout this campaign. You know he has talked a lot about common you, no common pain, common purpose, unity. Hope, love like he is a very positive message and I think in
because maybe that's not where people's heads that are right now in the kind of wanting to take the commenting on trumpet, also in part, because I do think some of the tension in this primaries. Ike,
If you get, you can talk about unity, but you also need to talk about how Democrats are going to win and we're going to win on all these really keep fights, and I guess one thing: I've never really did throughout this campaign is really kind of put meat on the bone in terms of what he means when he talks about about common pain, common purpose that makes him Ulta
and up at policies or proposals or a way of being a leader that is different from Elizabeth Warren Warner, Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden or have you, and I guess my hope for Korea. Booker would be I'd, like you know, in the Senate, without the pressure and limitations of being a future presidential candidate, stopping you from being interesting. What does it look like to actually actually try to bring people together? And that's not just about that's, not just about Democrats winning it's about fine, it's, but
What, where things democratic, to be doing differently? As with respect to the Republicans in Congress? I what are that? What is it really mean to bring people to people together, like I'm, I'm interested in seeing someone take risks in figuring out ahead of you,
firstly, I thought about when I saw that he dropped out, will I also I ever saw spark worker. I really liked him. I enjoyed interviewing him when he came here a decent income.
Managers is one of the best in the business. He is a fantastic staff. We drive. I thought you know a big
story of this primary is, I think, people underestimated the advantage. The Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders both have become
of how well recognised they are by the electorate. Their name ideas up in the nineties and when you have two candidates to major candidates in a primary were both
very well known, not just by the call.
Educated voters who pay attention to the primary all the time, but by the rest of the electorate, black voters, hispanic voters, Non college white, it's real
hard to get attention in a crowded field and its especially hard to get attention
and when you are trying to sort of b the unity candidate rate and you're trying to draw from different coalitions and assemble different collisions, and, I think calmly
I figured that out better work figured that out Corey Booker figure that out, and you just see a whole bunch of candidates. That seems very promising, find that it was very difficult to attract attention in a crowded primary with two people at the top. Who almost everyone knows, and I think that's it. That's that's a big problem, the core bunker faced and some of the other candidates to
great I, when we come back we'll, have love it's interview with Virginny Prakash of the sunrise,
pod, save America is brought you by policy genius.
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Donors. We loved and pursues honours joining us on the part of the executive director and co founder of the sunrise movement and organization of young people working to stop climate change, Martini Prakash Welcome dumping for having so we're in the midst of his prey.
Mary, the Green new deal has been embraced by Democratic Congress by presidential candidates. Are you surprised at all at just how big an impact sunrises had interests?
years of existence. I mean I'm immensely proud of that and I think it's what we set out to do from the beginning. You know two years ago we were just a cohort of young people who were frustrated at
politicians inability to take action on the most pressing issues of our time and we
Anger in that an entire generation of politicians had forsaken are at had forsaken young people and for taking our futures, and so you know, over the last two years
we have been able to push every major presidential candidates of a weak climate plan we
We have pushed climate change through. The green new deal should be at the forefront of our politics. We have engaged tens of thousands of young people
oh and engaged, and politically for the first time in their wives and giving them the tool to really manifest the reality that they want in the country. And so you know, if you ask me like a few years ago, whether I thought this was a possibility. I would have said yes, but I think it feel completely different from from
that is why that about right now, having accomplished at all, so it's turned to the endorsement sunrise announcer endorsement of Bernie Sanders in a win win,
number of candidates who have embraced the green new deal. Why? Why endorse Bernie
over say Warren or somebody other continents, while we ultimately put it to a vote to our membership and over the course of six week we went through a process of educating our members on the climate plans of candidates. We went through a discussion period and then ultimately supported over three thousand members to vote in an online brought that an end, though young people voted resoundingly overwhelmingly over
percent of them voted to support Bernie Sanders for president of the United States, and I think ultimately, the reasons. Why is because he has been one of the most consistent voices in support of climate action for pigs entire career? I think we ve also been him be a true movement and people candidate. It's like their campaign quoted right, not me. This is about building
not yet but lying on political Europe or individual, but actually building
a movement of millions of people back and work in concert with sympathetic politician to pack balls and transform the legislation, and I think, ultimately, one we when we think about a crisis like the climate crisis which require such transformative, both social and economic change, and we need a plan.
Petition that understands the state that understands the severity and understands the need, the kind of action that we need in the moment not just attack purer set up there,
so I was looking at the the sunrise scorecard and you know you have. You do have a Bernie Sanders in front. You know just behind him is Elizabeth Warren and then far behind both yeah Joe Biden, but one of the key sections
scorecard is planned to win, which is basically
you view is being prepared to implement the green new deal through Congress who the powers of the presidency, I actually kind of get to get it done and on that score, Warren
and sanders were tied which took to me, which may seem like a state.
That's it. You know, sunrise looks at Warren and it looks at Bernie and whatever their
printed on the campaign trail, we see them as equally capable of implementing the green new deal
do you agree with that
hopefully I mean- I think all of that weren't has proven herself to be a formidable candidate. She has put forward tons of really creative thoughtful policy on the campaign shrill. She has has been dream with clear sighted about who is responsible for putting up in the prices that we are in, and I think she would be
A tremendous president if elected as well. I think the reason why Bernie Sanders ended up resonating with young voters who are part of sunrise, and it is precisely because Bernie Sanders, if it wasn't just an endorsement of Bernie Sanders. The candidate
with endorsement of Bernie Sanders and the movement that he is building the ultimately the political revolution that he is trying to bring about. So our
There is peace by Emma merits in the times was called how to stop freaking out and tackle climate change, and I want it
and I wanted of it. It was. It was really interesting because I think it was trying
dress the feeling of excess central dread, the hopelessness that people may feel in talking about this issue- and I was just wondering what sunrise does too
combat the feeling that this problem is so big that
It's so urgent were facing administration. That is not just not doing enough, but an active Lee
rolling back what what environmental protection we do have. So how do you combat that sense of kind of hopelessness? Here? I think that is a tremendously important question. We are seeing depression red aside rates among people die rocket
it rather than in the communities that I I worked and engage with on the day to day, and I think when the mentally. What we want to do is to the fear to speak to the anger that young people are feeling in this moment and to be able to hear that with a sense of hope and a sense of optimism that when we actually come together, we can achieve things that we got were impossible in the past and so for us at sunrise, away that we try to do. That is by giving people clear and direct ways that they can actually participate in the movement. And so, for example, any person anywhere across the country can start a sunrise.
Or a local had ends and their over three hundred and fifteen of the capture of across the country in almost every single day, and when you are part of a local hub, you receive training, you would be coaching you receive
a community in which to act, and you can take a lot of you can work together,
community to achieve one of the goals of the movement are, at that time, the weather that pressure in Congress people to the poor queen. You feel whether it is organizing a local climate strike in your community, whatever it might be worth how to give people the tools that they don't have to wait. Take action. They don't happen. We ask the commission to take action. They have the solutions that their finger, Tipps and so were the next near. Actually, we are attempting to not just an engage, elect, horribly and work to defeat Trump and by the third tender.
Thousands of news voter, but were also working and to engage big time in building our base of young people to be millions and millions of people strong and we're hoping by this time. Next year we will have the path.
To get ten million people out industry. We will. We want a train, fifty thousand new active it by the end of twenty twenty alone, and we want to double or triple the number of chapters that we have and the number of people who feel emboldened public action in that moment and is the danger, help those people deployed in the twenty twenty election itself? Absolutely, I think it both during the election and beyond we're gonna be actively involved in the twenty election, but we don T November third of twenty twenty as a deadline or finish line. We see that at the beginning that we need to be building the kind of grasses.
Our that can actually build external pressure, when we have a sympathetic president in office will over the next nine months before the election, we will be working for register tens of thousands of years older than me from them out or we need your champion, but the congressional level and am at parliamentary level and at the same time we will be simultaneously training those leaders, not just in Alex Tool, organizing, but how to do the moral protest that has really had a poker sunrise and the green new deal into the national discourse and we're gonna, be training young people and how to do by graphic organizing killed on the grounds that they can grow their bases in there.
Community of a power where they live, and until we don't want that, we understand that this is gonna, be you know the kind of crisis. It is a huge project to tackle it's gonna, take a decade or war of really inventive active policy, making things even make a dent in it, and we know that the that this election is critical to Arthur.
I bought and it isn't the end point regarding the incinerator allocation or beyond November twenty twenty. So you know it's all about twenty twenty. In a last week, the Trump Administration announced plans to be
got the National Environmental Policy ACT. That would mean no longer even requiring climate change were taken into account when looking at projects like power plants in new pipelines- and that's that's the latest.
In a series of actions, big and small, that the administration is taken on behalf of fossil fuels,
Many other interests. You know there are big differences amongst Democrats. Even in this primary, but those distinctions, pale caparisoned
to restart choice in November, weaken, regardless of who the nominee will be in a word
to enter the most heated part of the primary
Are you worried at all about the left coming together to defeat Trump once the primaries Don, given that most
People who vote in this primary just because of how many candidates are are likely not to be vote.
For me the nominee is going to be look out in that way we have set out from from office. There is no negotiating but crazy and he is pushing us closer than ever to war. He obviously as if it were for the position that equal and we have to keep him out and we have chosen, I can think for sunrise- can't speak for the entire left, but I
you know as part of sunrise movement. We house elected Bernie Sanders as are hesitant twice, but I think fundamentally even
Bernie Sanders does not win the nomination in the primary. We will go to that and we will fight extremely hard for whoever the democratic novelty is because it is of the essence that we'll let somebody who prioritizing the climate crisis into
How about that you know, look obviously you know. We know that I think young people are more behind Bernie Sanders there than they are Joe Biden right like we all know that we all know that that Bernie Sanders
worn and some of the other candidates have attracted even more enthusiastic support than some of them.
Joe Biden, but you're. Sometimes I I I wonder, is
Joe Biden becomes a nominee the Democratic Party. All of a sudden, it will be incumbent on podcast, like
the ones we make over here organization.
Sunrise it'll be about trying to get a bunch of people to come,
out and vote for Joe Biden even know it? Wasn't there first choice even
They might not think he's far left enough, because, honestly, on a lot of issues, he isn't do. Do you think about
at all about like man it this party picks Joe Biden. I'm gonna have to work my ass off to get people to get by
I M an ill be much easier if it were somebody like Bernie, but you know what, if it is Biden like, I'm gonna fuckin do it when it is get out there, and
people to the pause, no matter what, even if I'm pissed yeah, I mean that's exactly what we
tend to do, and I know we're gonna do it because we ve done it before, and there was an election in May
again, where we endorse a dwells, I add an grudging. Whittemore ended up winning the
Mary Ann, so we turned, although bar eloquent forces in Michigan, towards campaigning in electing her. So you know, I think we are trying to keep our eyes on the prize in its further weaken, while one of our principles is no permanent friends, no permanent enemies. Right now, Joe Biden is my probably one of my last shortfalls in terms both major candidates worthy
democratic primary, but you know him Biden versus trumpet the no brainer that we have to elect Joe Biden,
You know I'm right there with you and I I think we as leaders of of social movements and progressive and have to be making the case of the people for why that is so important.
One last question working people due to kind of support sunrise to get involved, but my got going the movement and where at sunrise, movement, thought Org and you can find us and all social platform
at sunrise. Envy MP encourage you to get involved in a very least if it's just getting on our inability to keep up to date, have spent half there, but also weird getting into gear for the rest of the year and would heavily encourage people to sign up to also launch party for a twenty twice strategy or sign up to knocked worth with us. We
What going right now virtually Prakash thanks for doing. Thank you right, thanks to virtually prick
for joining us today.
We will talk to you will see a Tuesday night during the debate in our group thread and we will have our pod Wednesday morning. Biogas bye, bye,
pod, save America, a product of cricket, media, the senior producers, Michael Martinez, arson,
in producer. Is Jordan Waller its mixed in edited by
Andrew Chadwick Kyle, settling as our sounded junior thanks to Carol
rest and Tom you so mediator and came off production support into our digital team, Elijah, CO, normal Coney and Yell Freed in Milo Camp, who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-02-09.