The present sponsor of POD save America Zip recruiter during this I'm of change. We want you to know that zip recruiters focus hasn't changed. There still but they ve always done helping people find work in helping businesses find the right people for their open rules. If you're looking for a job zipper greater will work with you to find the right job faster. Their dedicate. Helping you get hired from caretaking to deliver food and goods to building met no facilities supplying protective equipment, and so much more. In fact, dipper recruiters apple send you It job openings so can you are the first to apply and if you're actively hiring zip recruiter will invite candidates apply to your most urgent roles, Ming, faster and easier to reach the people you need

by connecting people who need jobs and companies, then he people, zip recruiter, is working with all of us, so we can keep moving forward. Let's work together, visit, zip, recruiter, dotcom, slash, work together to learn more. I welcome the POD save America. I'm John Favour Ambient Pfeiffer on today's Stacy. Abrams is here to talk about the voting clusterfuck in Georgia on Tuesday and are brand new book. Our time is now

for that will talk about the mixed messages coming out of the White House in the Trump campaign on police, violence and racism, the president has grown quote malignantly crazy about. Paul numbers against Joe Biden, but first check out this. Positive, the world were Tommy and Ben talk about what policing looks like a broad evidence. There may not have been fraud in Bolivia's presidential election after all, Netanyahu's latest dangerous annexation push and an interview with the Washington Posts, David Ignatius, also big announcement. Crooked, as a brand new podcast preparing tomorrow June, twelve, is called on holier than thou. For this one it's for awhile award, winning journalists and editor Philip Picardy, is on a quest to better understand his relationship with spirituality. By learning how who plays a role in other people's lives.

Is episodes are out tomorrow, Friday, their fantastic one includes an excellent conversation with the rector of Saint Johns Episcopal Church, who was there when I'm staged his Photoshop last week fast. In conversation, so gossip grab to unholy than thou on Apple podcast, Spotify ever you listen to pipe, casts exciting. That's great. Dan. I think you, I think you have a new video to a new campaign campaign. Experts react. I would know that that is on the table. I would have chosen I don't keeps changing every time. I see it in documents on Youtube. I don't know what the title I This is my overlords Elijah in Yale bitterly they really wore their digital They tivoli over me all the time ads or additional native is about whatever it is. They do they say their younger, therefore they recently internet better, and so when they offered the title campaign. Exports react. I said you know

Look, it's pretty good. At naming things. Could we come up with some other titles? They said yes as law. They said yes, as long as it has the words. Exports reacted it I guess I guess you'd it's like a thing. I don't buy anyhow kid and exports racks? It's on you do with a series of every couple weeks where we break down public lads, though the most recent ever so, which one up on Tuesday includes Coronel Belcher hurled friend, who was one of Break Obama's. Pulsars thousand eight thousand twelve million at some ads from the trunk campaign, the Lincoln Project and a Senate majority pack add against Susan Collins and dig into the question of whether it is possible for the term campaign to make being an asshole. I put a class at will seems to be an hour later strategy, so check it out it's a great one. It's my favorite one. Yet the is fantastic, so check it out get the news, so on Sunday, Donald, was top political advisers told acts years. They quote,

their Bosnia's, more hopeful, optimistic and unifying messages, and that quote: has to tone down. The most send the airy rhetoric, though, there was even telling reporters the Trump might deliver a speech on race, immunity and sure enough. The president's the weak testing out some new material. Then, on Monday, He said that an elderly protester, who was assaulted by police and Buffalo, was actually an anti fa provocateur who face the whole thing on Wednesday. He stood. For the ideal of naming military bases after confederate leaders and the way has just announced a trumpet be spending. June, teeth are NASH, no commemoration of the end of slavery by holding a campaign rally in Tulsa the site. Of this single worst incident of racial violence in american history and let the healing began. I saw one one unpack all of this starting with trumps

please insane anti for conspiracy theory about seventy five year old, Martin, good GINO, a catholic peace activists who, still in the hospital recovering from a serious head, wound that he got from the police in Buffalo. Where did this anti Foley? see come from. It came from a way in which is a net them is created on the idea that Fox was too soon What's it like MSNBC, are we like to fully understand away, and is this fringe conservative television network that has minimal viewers ship that was started about six or seven years ago, and they wrote the prominence in two thousand sixteen, because they became very pro tromp trumps, amplifying MA. Am he often threatens Fox with o n in constantly telling them they are completely insane? They have they put forward a whole series conspiracy. There is in their whole motors up Andy is Trump vague,

go out of their way to put forward content that they believe reinforces Donald Trumps, worldview, Ultimately, what this conspiracy theory that Martin Eugene A social actors the catholic such lack in his seventys was standing. Their fate is fall first off its I was there to disrupt police signals with phone, I believe means complete bananas, but there's strategic issue, which has the power to scramble things trumped as a strategic issue. A tragic issue. Purpose of this, which is tromp, wants to show that somehow these protests are being led by rueful traded by bad people that he could demonize in. So he struggled to must do that that he picked mortgage maybe, and then ultimately. This is part of a much bigger problem in american media in the in the barrow, which is you these media outlets away I'm but also Fox and bright Bart, who know

They need tromp attention and trumpery tweets to drive their business and drive their attention. So now, content that they think trumpet like. In therefore share answer, you end up with a sort of Moebius Strip of misinformation where they're putting out this information, as they think Trump believes it, but then from police because they put it out many tweets it and you end up in this cycle. Words not clear where trumps brain begins or ends in the misinformation starts yeah, and and like all of these conspiracies, you know the whole thing falls apart. When you think about it for five seconds or when you watch the video first of all, and you see that he was pushed to the ground and was not fucking faking it in You think yourself, like you, know, and tv just sit there like we got to send this seventy five year old to Buffalo to disrupt the police communications equipment that that's. Ok, that's that's anti, for which, by the way is it

Define organization. In the first place I mean it goes back to Trump is very good at attacking imaginary enemies. He needs imaginary enemies all the time to keep his whole thing going like he can't fight with real people that always like theirs caravan coming, there's antifreeze out to get you, and so it is part of his whole gushed alt. I don't know is attacking a seventy five year old man. The best way to shore up the senior citizens Work, it's been a while, since I've been like actively working on campaigns, but I think not to give their numbers tromp. One seniors by five points in two thousand and sixteen he is currently losing them by seven points. According to the pulling average that NATO and put together in a recent base, he cannot win if he is losing seniors by seven and I don't see the benefit in attacking a senior as a member of a cause, I made up domestic terrorist group

so the reaction to trim Street was classic of the genre or Republicans in Congress all found different ways to pretend they didn't see it, but of course none of them could out. That little marker Rubio, who said quote I dont red twitter. I only right on it which is a funny, because everything that market Rubio has said our diet since doesn't sixteen has been very clearly in response to his mentions. Deep in the matter has deepened dimensions, few sad, Whitehouse, staffers, texted, Jonathan Swan of Access to tell him that very quote, wits end and it's like that. Make them wonder if Trump even wants to get reelected Dan? What's it what's, a was a poor trump. Why has Stafford to do? like, why did they think what's gonna happen was or some other period in their sad, depraved tenure aware tromp was really be. Having well undoing small things They chose to work for a man who rose to the White House by spreading depraved conspiracy there,

and so now their sad he's doing the thing that he has always done its absurd. And it's so funny because these staff who are constantly talking to Jonathan Swan and others. It's like there. They're. Having this internal struggle where, feeling some measure of discomfort with the way things are going, but not enough, do anything about it. I was like they just maybe You don't have time to get to their therapist of women, so they just called Jonathan Swine to make themselves feel better like it I thought it was very revealing when one of them said they wonder if Trump even wants to get a reelected, it's not none of this is bothering them from a moral perspective. Oh yeah, is there. There upset that he might not win that. It's not a politically wise move. That's all they give a fuck about emanate. They have bear their reputations, their place in history. On a forty eight period of able to share, David Bossy and a member of the five at the Trump hotel, and if that ends

hotel and if that ends in four years, that it probably wasn't a worthwhile investment. And you know, and the same thing. With these republican senators running away, I mean reporters had printed out the tweet Do you know why it took three and a half years, but good for you ve report having over for us or figure that out good for you and they still and I saw There- is washing up a story about a bunch of republican senators and rollicking strategist, worried the trumpet take down the Senate with them. If you listen november- and they say you know, what's the best advice here, given your bosses- and someone was like why we just tell them to like run away from Casey Hunt when you're in capital hell whose her for her friendly it's just soak great strategy. That's a great, very, very bold. I do to get back to the larger conflict within the Republican Party and the White House and the Trump campaign itself over how to respond to both the protests and the massive shift in public opinion around police brutality and systemic grace.

That we have seen over the last few weeks on one end, you got centre Republicans. Led by South Carolina, Senator TIM Scott. Working on a very modest police reform bill, but certainly much further than they have ever gone at the White House. Saying Trump. Might But some of these reforms visa executive order soon Stephen Miller's hard at work on that speech about racism he's for it. I guess but then on on Wednesday after the sick turn, defence and the Secretary of the army both said they be willing to rename the an army base is named after confederate leaders. Trump says he won't even consider it, and it's not just him tweeting years? Why has press secretary carry MAC and any saying that it is official policy? is known for the heroes within it, that train their that deployed from there and its an insult.

Say to the men and women who left there. The last thing they saw on american soil before going overseas and in some cases losing their lives to tell them that what they left was inherently a racist institution because of a name, that's unacceptable. To president and rightfully so- and I would also note where do you draw the line here? I am told that no longer can find on HBO gone with the wind, because somehow that is now offensive. Where do you draw the line as it should? George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and James Madison be erased from history or about after and internment camps? He should he be erased from Israel Lyndon Johnson, who has a history of documented racist statements and, finally, what about people? or alleged by the media to be segregationist. Nbc tells us Joe Biden, didn't just compromise with segregationist. He fought for their causes and school experts say see it. And tells US letters from Joe Biden reveal how he sought supportive segregationist and the fight against us

Washington. Post tells us that binds tough talk on nineteen. Seventy schools he's segregation. Plans could get him, you scrutiny, and there are several more than four that came from so Ali. With the question, should we then rename the bite unwelcome center? I got an idea, let's start with people who fucking fought for the confederacy. Let's start there then we'll see where we are. People who succeeded from the union for cause of slavery, start. Let's start there see where we go, I mean it is wild although consistent with much of the hour, civil war has United States that we have a book military bases named after generals who tried to defeat the? U S, military and lost, to this day, and we have an like- I mean so that's I mean that's fucking, that's them! That's crazy! Let's talk about the political dynamics like

first of endless are with the centre Republicans: do you think they feel pressure to do something on police reform because of public opinion? Do you think it is an effort to separate themselves from Trump? Is it both? I think they do and you can, but maybe think that there is something in our polling or something that is telling them they have to be seen as being for something and not against. Everything was John Cournand, one of the truly worse people in all the work and politics tweeting about the need to deal with these violence against the black community- and I mean this is someone who, in the run up to the two dozen eighteen election, John Cournand tweeted a article about how Texas was speaking to become a majority. Already state right where he was trying to make the point, just like his photos, I'll in the chamber has been to scare white people individually did this and he is in a race and stay

It is trending much bluer as it becomes more suburban so his desire to be on record being for something to trumpet not was notable idleness. We think it say. Specific strategy to separate from Trump, but I think they are. We of that in Mcconnell was pushing this, for this. Do not like a political dynamic. Where you have these millions of people, peaceful protest and you have Joe Biden Congressional Democrats for something knowing that the house is probably to pass a bill. Trump demonizing ad and just doing whatever insane show you throw that momentum, Republicans being released. Think they feel better somewhere in the middle of that, an annex, of course, on the Trump side. Yeah me look, you are this is. This is also an example of the power of protests and the power of changing public opinion. Like do, I think, most of you

Republicans are serious about these reforms. No, do I think these were my lot of the reforms will come up with are gonna be worth much, probably not, but they're scared. They're all scared of public opinion and the politics round. This, which should tell everyone who has been in the streets and who's, been fighting these battles that its working is working? You, Tom cotton Tom gotten stood up at this at the Senate, lunch apparently in said, young black men have a very different experience with law enforcement in this nation than white people and that their impression inexperience and we need to be sensitive to that and do all we can to change it. You know just a week after he was ready to send in the IMF, can military to attack some of those young black men who are protesting Edith I have to say this. I think of one note about Tom Cottons remarks that some contacts as he was actually holding James Bennets head when he said that

so, like again fucking, it's bullshit it's coming from Tom Cotton, but it it shows you that even Tom Cotton, crazy right wing lunatic as he is, is scared, you scared any seas where the seas where the country is, and he made sure that the present new he said that, because I was This is a closed. Her eyes line was somehow some political reporters just happen to get a scoop about Tom Cottons Bay, West Wing, more men in here, and so he felt after being on the side of invading american cities that he had to sort of Levin had absurd position with saying one thing that was not terrible, which is very off brand for Tom Cotton, the ultimate both sides there, and why do you think the White House in the trunk campaign, or talking about unifying re speeches and police form one day and the next day their defending the confederacy and announcing a Magyar rally Tulsa on June teeth? You know this division is manifested itself in

some of the story? Is it a bit written about sort of the state of the trunk and these days, which is to be clear, not good, and there is a bite. There are some people who are in some of them are new or to Trump or other necessary veterans of she hasn't. Sixteen primary who are looking at that. Birth, and the numbers are very clear which is Trump is under way, forming where sinners, which is ruled by a whole bunch of things, including kroner virus, in an economy in maybe he s proposal to cut our security in those sorts of things, but he also has a massive, suburban problem, a problem with women and his Grech. His positions in racially divisive rhetoric, contribute, so they are trying to there's. People will look at the data and say that We cannot win with the enormous we want to succeed. We have to grow our support beyond the political mega base. Therefore, we have to stand down the edges and make tromp more slightly.

Bravo, central. This is not like guinea to get like three points. More broadly acceptable and then you have trumps natural instincts in a set of people who feel like that approach of appealing to people were hit. Is inconsistent with how he wanted to thousand and sixteen and want to double down on them Now, I'm not really sure how the numbers work- in that, where theory of how they can work. But if you're looking at Poland it is very clear that you need to sandy is down here and so I think, that's that there's a push in poor between political professionals and the cable raises for profit their advice trump on this Yeah- and you saw some of this play out- like you- send some of these stories- there's maybe see story about this- that that ran last night, some of them the base first, people, the people who want to remain in his racist routes,

Are you know, training their fire on cushion urge our prisoners, son in law, ABC says Trump people believe questioners alienating the president's voter base, because he is to moderate a force in Jared assumes our base is going to go along with anything. We say it does set up a real challenge for him because for too because, like you said his instincts are everything we ve seen him tweet this week. This is who he is. We ve known this for years now, He's never going to be able to not be that guy that we see in those streets- and I think it's a me that their only hope is this based strategy and based plus Somehow they like wind by registering a whole bunch of people who you know a lot of nine college, educated white people in some of these swing states who didn't vote at all and twenty sixteen, but might be inclined to vote for Trump? Now just haven't

registered, because I dont know with this struck with the issues in the news, with the election being about both the pandemic. The recession sort of the the racial and social upheaval in the country right now, like Donald Trump being who he is tweeting like he does, is not going to win over a bunch of new people right well, do you wanna, know sort of my theory of how they can make their work. So I will be very clear. I do nothing a good political strategy. But if you were trying to divine a strategy that they can approaches way, would be wine new Joe Biden. Right and you knew fine too, is right. You you down his numbers, will seniors, even if you don't win and by five I get into that. Sixteen you get that number closer to, even which is a

well proposition, because these are people who have not been firmly in the democratic camp for a long period of time, you and in the course of new control, This is very similar to why, They had some successful Hilary, which is you make him on it. Chapter. One unexciting to some. Small percentage of democratic basis. You take your base. You jack it up. High is high you get, which is not that high. But you get here in there are large part it's in the battle round states of unregistered likely comforters. So you get that up and then you make by an unacceptable to us number of voters, and that doesn't mean you move them to trump. You move them into either. Some third party candidate wished that obvious vessel does not exist. Now, like you did with just dying and Gary Johnson, but also in a world in which vote vote, requires you potentially to go stand in line next to an unmasked Magda person. It maybe get krona virus, you just don't

So, where you can reduce turned out among the both I'm democratic base, who Biden, has stars some challenges with, and the group of Trump disapprove verse, who remained somewhat sceptical about right, like gets that is theory for how you could do this and it does not work on a national scale. Trump still was popular by millions under that, but it is a world in which you could, theoretically, theoretically, if everything goes right when a very narrow electoral college victory it does seem like it is not just a strategy that happens because of trumps instincts. That's a big part of it that the campaign is, or at least some elements of a campaign are coalescing round the strategy I mean do we do we think that any of them knew about the fact that they were to hold the first Magda rally in three months in Tulsa on June teeth. Do you think this is a purposeful thing? Do you think that

just morons again, this is the older incompetence, verses, malevolence, debate, idle personally, don't know how oh no one- could have Google research understood these Nick begins of both the date and the place. I don't know what you, well Look John, as you know, Uncle homer is the state. The tradition decides presidential elections, and so right we got you gotta get there and you gotta you, you gonna, win that states and I'm sure that's why he went on always possible that they fucked up like that. It like that is and they are capable of making mistakes that are so bad that they seem impossible to just be mistakes right by. So that is Well, but I do think everyone, journalists, people on Twitter, let him off the hook, because the entire responsiveness for most people was ha ha look. What happens when they have to google this aid? Are they gonna be shocked and

He's a press, United States, someone who has Rhine on an explicitly white nationalist message for years now we are in the middle of a national conversation on systemic racism. State sponsored violence against the black community and here. You have the President states. Owing to a non battleground state on a specific day. You have this rally in so I don't think we can just let him off the hook. The burden of proof must be on to prove that this was some sort of unbelievable coincidence and not a very specific, a tent to send a very strong message to white some portion when, and there is a history with this wish, in eighteen. Eighty one Ronald Reagan was running for president. He gave one of his first speeches at then you shoulda county, fair in Mississippi, which is a stone's throw away from Philadelphia Mississippi, which was the site of the missing.

Burning, murderous civil rights workers and gave a speech by states rights, and that was based on reporting from inside the committee time a very explicit message to why southerners. That Reagan was that this California Hollywood governor, was on your side, because the only path to victory for Reagan was to get white people on the South sport him a set of Carter. And like. I think there is a very real possibility that this is the updated version and shovel county, fair speech, and we should look at it through that context, and I presume the trumpet the people around him or idiots Yes, and for ever those of you who aren't familiar with, The details of of tells her, you know you, you should look at it. You should look out because it is one of the more horrific episodes and in american history. It was in nineteen twenty one,

Basically, a mob of white citizens. Conspired with the city with the National Guard to terrorize the black population of Tulsa, at the time there were murders there were, like houses were burned down like a generations of wealth were lost. It was a horrific incident, maybe the worse incident, a racial violence in our history, which is littered with intensive, very, very bad racial violence. So you, you know, as is much more time with the politics of this, you should use. You should read up on that, because it is truly horrific and, and especially more so now the trumpets decided that he wants to go there ungenteel of all this, and he doesn't know it is notably a racial incident that is not included in much of the history that is taught in american schools.

No idea right and then there was eight. There is a commission that took a long time to actually figure out to find out all the details and discover what really happened there. So it is very long history. There so the trunk campaign. Also on this note, released and attack at yesterday, which also doesn't feel too unifying. Let's, let's play the arab team is destroying our communities. Rioting looting yet Joe Biden, Niels down and its staff send money for play and binding fails to stand up to. The radical left is fighting to London on Polish, the police, with Biden kneeling to the left. We'd have chaos industries. President trough is standing up for us, keeping our community say protecting minority on businesses and always standing for our fly. Donald trump- and I approve this message now. You can tell me if there's anything in this add that is concerning to you

but the line like Biden kneeling to the left is going to lead to chaos in the streets is one of the dumbest. I have heard an ad because I It is so I mean we're Taiwan as it is such an ad directed only towards the most trompe trump voters. Who can put together the kneeling reference, the streets, the Antigua stuff, like its greatest hits of all of trumps craziness and the rights craziness. You see on Fox news idle? I can't imagine it anything, but an add that would get mega folks excited and may be raised some money, but I dont know what I mean in our poetically named Youtube serious campaign. Experts react we ve, looked at a copper trump ads and this one fits with all the. Looked at, which is imbedded in aid is a mess,

potentially effective strategy. It adjusts that's red cheeks executed incredibly poorly, because these heads are made by people who only watch Fox and are therefore made for people who only want So you have to know a lot about what way is like inside the right wing media ecosystem to understand what the fuck. This is about right yeah yeah yeah, my colleague, Cabernet collusion ends in a tv illusions. The average person does not get back. A strategy that tries to make binding on it set. The ball to some group of older, moderate voters, because he is in line with sort of a more the core element, a democratic party, you're out of this in the conversation about socialism and trying to make that now. I think that is a very difficult thing to sell about Joe by right like to accept people know things about them, is that he was a vice president for Brok about that he is an old white guy and

that he was probably somewhat more moderate than the other democratic. Like this one of the areas like this. That's like the thing who would remember about the primary if you're someone who casually pays attention to politics, to AIDS? Can it so that is a hard thing to the execution of answerable and like the voices hers in all of these republican ads So bad right Yes, I did like weeds. We look today on this other trump bad Coronel I did were basically, it sounds like a Fox news bike commercial in how they sell it at its leg. How is it like? So it's I think there That is not a good execution of A strategy sets a pretty bad but you can sort of see whether going and they just, don't have to move numbers en masse to make this a very close ranks. They only have to shape a few points off here and there, and we cannot forget that.

Yeah. No, I think it's also an example of an ad that is sort of swimming against the tide of the prevailing media. Narrative right, like People know are at least according to sort of all of the polling and research we have seen over the last few weeks. People don't hold Joe Biden responsible for the chaos in the streets. In fact, people largely hold Donald Trump, responsible for chaos. They think he has handled the protests wrong. They are on the side of the protesters over the police. I believe that systemic racism is a huge problem in the country. They do not think that anti FA is responsible for others like they are one of the challenges for the Trump campaign. In this moment

sort of the reality- and this has been their challenge for last couple months through the pandemic as well- the reality that people are feeling in their own lives and seeing on their television screens and their phone screens is very different than the narrative. Donald Trump in his campaign are trying to deliver to them. And I think that's really hard when you're running a campaign to be that opposed to the predominant narrative. It's hard for Democrats when the narrative different but like in this instance there not doing a very good job of meeting people where they are in terms of the reality that their expense. There's always tumor spin on the ball like right aid like if you go through all the cat, like everything we ve talked about here today. Besides the intifada tweet, but the gone with the wind comments about the banning of gone with the wind toppling of the confederate statues, getting rid of Christopher Columbus. What all All of this is about is trying to send a message to a certain set of Mckenna voters that change,

happening is scary, and it's happening too fast and the download from as a brake on that change, One of the things we set about Joe Biden passes like whatever else you thought about him in the primary he was perhaps the best fit for the electorate of all the other candidates and which wants to do is make change seem like it's happening to fastened to scary. Did it break against that changed? There was a way to do that message, but you have to do it in a way that is credible for who your opponent is and making Joe Biden seem like an anti for leader is equivalent, don't- although maybe in maybe that was point of the market. You know tweet wise as head of the same age, same age, Martin, did you know that we remember, we add, on his face on his bodies: scam, police equipment, pardon it has brought you square space, you score

ways to create a beautiful website to showcase your work, sell products and services promote your physical or online business and more who's got an idea for a new website. I d teacher Tommy: don't So before we started recording the ads Hosanna Routine took us for like a tour of is of this place. We the cool like meditation room. We saw the yard, it reminded me that way now, while these overly intimate looks into people's lives, each other colleagues However, it If we had a website there was a clear ring house of zoom a from other, so Aberdeen homes. So I could zoom you from Chris. De gins four year I was really good. You don't seem so other, like I'm trying to think of a name for the website. Yeah, that's what I was doing. Do that's why I was put her apposite. They think of the brilliant idea Tom

I just get out to think of a celebrity saying that sounds like zoom, and I can't think of one The magic of editing will mean it come spread to you. You know I just tweet outer skies, The name of this website to us we loved from we'd love to you and also also Importantly Chica. Squares based outcome slush crooked. You can get a free I'll. When you ready to launch your own website, used the Africa cricket to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website. Or domain square space makes it easy to be your own website its optimized mobile right out of the box. You don't have to be a code, a designer. Thank you just do it yourself thinks square space. Ten percent off squares based our complex cricket, go check it out So let's talk about the state of the race. Over the last few weeks, Biden has opened up a significant laid over Trump, but eight points. Nationally right now, which

would almost certainly be enough to also when the electoral College, if the race was today, is Cone of the New York Times pointed out this week, transaction as a road it among most demographic groups, but particularly women, white voters without a college degree and seniors which puts bite in a stronger position to oust and incumbent president than any challenger since Bill Clinton in the summer of ninety. Ninety two Trumpery usual is taking this stride. One of his staff has told Vanity Fair gave Sherman that the president is quote malignantly crazy about the bad pole numbers communist out there, because that's too much good news that I refused to get excited by throw some cold water on the number of forest and well, most importantly among experts like blame The most important point is the election is not today right. In fact, it's a couple months cut

once we are today which is next week, as we pointed out last week, the distance between the ILO work is in today is shorter than the dysentery and today in the election, so can happen even reading all these stories about from standing words like this is his lowest rating. Since the government shutdown of twenty nineteen. I now Remember that twenty seventy, transcend our twenty nineteen o. For some reason, I thought that twenty seventy honour that was a mini that that was when we shut the government down, for we can tell them Rachel. That's within Trump himself shut down for several months. We do spacesuited, never gonna, like three months yeah and then there is like that. The other time it was. This low was in twenty in it. They like the father, sweating eighteen during impeachment. Also thing that happened so leg We are going to change. You can even see how they begin to feel More normal right even

we just as this is not because we have had a vaccine or therapeutic? We figured out front of it's more that we have just become no to a situation where eight hundred to twelve hundred Americans die every day, because the if I may not be happening in our community or in our lives it that one moment in time and in the press were moved on from an. Protests recede somewhat to the background, I hope they dont. But that can happen. The economic new source if you will, but better and people's anxiety level and then the race revert back to where it has been from the beginning, which is Joe Biden with a forty five point. National Poland, which means A very narrow, close electoral colleges like this like everyone on this by should stop looking at national poles, because it gives you a false sense of coffee, Joe Biden can win, then the popular vote by forty five points and still not become president

now that is a huge indictment of our political system, but that as the reality which we are living, and so These boys, like Biden, is up by seventeen, have once That means from has to move the race to two and a half to three and a half points to be right. Back rewards two wasn't and sixteen, so we have to be prepared for an incredibly close race throughout the Trump presidency. They're up in the. It is operating within this now this narrow band, where at his high point it they close race as low point he's gonna lose by law, but it always seems to revert back. It meant that may not happen, but we should presume like it well, because that is what the the three and a half years of the term presidency thus far have told us weapon.

I think also you know. One reason to be concerned are the demographic groups that are giving Biden some of this lead so Non college, educated, white voters and seniors ripe, which two groups that traditionally have been with Republicans, have not shown that they were moving away from Republicans in recent years. In fact, have shown over the last several election cycles that they ve moved towards Republicans, so that sort of where the demographics are going. So the fact that you know like Hillary Clinton, did worse among white voters without a college degree than Barack Obama dead in aid

he it's not like a lot of the candidates and even in eighteen, the midterms made up much ground with white voters without a college education. So it is unusual. The Joe Biden is doing well among us verse, rang out, which means it's it's even easier to see them going back to Donald Trump. You might say the same thing about senior citizens, senior senor, voters The other thing is, you know, Biden made no gains among men or non white voters and he's pretty flat with young voters, meaning he's probably now getting the same share of of of the youth Otis. Hillary Clinton did, but with non white voters by has not made up much ground. What's, even if you look at twenty eight in eighteen, huge democratic here this It's that we need to wait like let's say we were missing. Everyone has meant that we have to neither Arizona or Wisconsin to get over to seventy. In Wisconsin. In this amazing democratic ear, Tony Everest

barely one the governorship, Curse in cinema barely we need more of them exactly. So even with everything going our way, the Bower states are still incredibly close. That, like. Some like Michigan you now, the pulling in Michigan has been overwhelmingly and binds favour. It is of demographically in partisan, make up wise of all the states, a trump flip, the one most likely to foot back, followed by Pennsylvania by its own, even if those are in our direction was, containers are going to be very close and we'd like that It doesn't matter anything us, as is now the pole. This we are in two thousand in Oregon, even in two thousand and twelve, the sum he's got a gun seats, barely tapped. It is kind of you remember you were there for this, but doesn't eleven. We did this off site White House Retreat and plus D. A presentation that you know made election data and the

small increments of change that would flip the White House to Republican Jason to avaricious, like a tube drop in youth vote in this state. A you know, moving are independent numbers by four points, and others and were losing it It also proposes are getting through Hunter electoral votes. In so like these things. Are happening in these very, very narrow spaces in like if we re normal country, where the person with the most votes in the country became president. This would not be a problem because, in my view of this fact, apple actual conscious image, over voters most likely to be Republicans. We are for we're going to have to scrapper way across eventually so Let's talk about the best way for binding to maintain or even build. This led some I believe you should lay low former Virginia Governor Terry. The was heard on tape this week. Telling Democrats quote he Fine in the basement? Let trump keep doing what trumps doing Biden has

necessarily been taking advice. He was in Houston earlier this week meeting with George Floyd's family and he's participating. An economic round table in Philadelphia today I will say that binds biggest leading the race has had, and during a period where it's been seen in public, more than meantime in months, so I dont think it certainly certainly haven't heard em. But what do you think yeah that mean that's right. He has been out. There has been an eye over the last two and a half weeks removed whenever its ban. It has been by far the best Russia, the binding championed since he gathered decimating right. I have he is here. He has met the moment It is very good on the daily show last night I think they're doing a very good job in a very challenging situation, but there like what Mccall Vicinity had is this view of Trump is hurting himself, so we should get out of the way ahead I would imagine terms of nose, politics and though he previously

more nuanced view than what we heard in that one audio snippet by like this referendum choice thing is a false debate. You the election is ultimately going to be most influenced by people's opinions of Trump, but it is just makes no sense to think that Europe needs a binding, not interact with their opinions, invoked choice in the election real right now in a row to see. Who is going to define Joe Biden first, the Republicans with it's like the one we played earlier or Joe Biden Divine Camp and Tromp still can define Biden as unacceptable to enough voters to a village. He has the ability to do that. We know from pulling the Joe Biden remains, particularly defined to thee persuadable, voters there were about which includes what are the seniors as white working class voters who are unfavourable to chop

and younger voters, I'm strictly younger voters of color, and there is I can get it trumped gets there before. By does, then he could win this rice and look. You know us sort of data analyse and journalists talk about. Well, you know when, when Trump is the focus of the new cycle, it's bad for Trump and Trump does worsen the horse race. When the new cycle is focused on Biden like when it was focused on Hilary and twenty sixteen trumped as better Biden or Hilary or whoever his opponents does worse right- and I think that's true that has been borne out, but that's the media narrative, which Can't fully control is a campaign where you can control. Is your candidates, message and your ads and where you can t and what you see. And all that there is a great study by political scientists, David Bergmann, Joshua Color this week that looked at the effective, providing ads and anti trump ads on the horse race.

Here's. What they found. Overall, information about Biden, whether pro or anti, is around twice as effective at moving vote. Choice in the presidential election then messaging about Trump weather. RO or anti. The positive information about Biden appears to be broadly persuasive across all voters, but it is specially clear among Republicans and independence. This effect isn't just a case of Democrats coming home after African. The primary who might have come home later anyway. It appears that probity Information can cause people who would why have voted for Trump too instead vote for Biden seems pretty clear. Cut Yes? Yes, yes, yes, yes, we ve been saying this for a long time ago. There are enough voters who do not want to vote for Trump to win this election which are binding, but he had the here. Convince those voters, if you give them, as we always say, permission structure to do before something other than tromp. You have to create an acceptable alternative in Joe Biden

pushing on an open door which are by he does not bear the bag of thirty years of republican attack, psychologically. He is not under as at least depending on what toolbars plans are for the day under FBI. Investigation right here, is a mainstream democratic politicians who is associated with a president who has in providing around the sixties with general. And so that like, but that that can be, that can be changed and mean, and so it is, if not just on the bank. It is not just on the super packs. It's on all of us right to health. Define turbine because here's what here's the challenge that he and his campaign they have what less money than Donald Trump and Their ability to get access to the airwaves through free media

credible limited because of trumps domination of the media. We talked about this last week. The media did not cover some of them events. He gave a big set of remarks on jobs Day was not covered, live MSNBC. The liberal network Emma S, Dnc covered trumps insane remarks about the economy. Do not cover binds like that seems like from, and so what are, the strategy's? You can do with less money, less paid me has earned media to define yourself before your opponent to find you, and that is where I think people can play an important role here and one other thing that they found, which is specific, provide messages were better than vague messages, and I do think, as we get to not just what the Biden campaign should do, but what we can do, I think in the coming weeks. As you know, a lot of these there, these unity policy councils with sort of our Bernie Sanders staff,

but they're working on they're gonna come up with more policies. Japan will be rolling out more policies and proposals from now through when he's nominated, there will be a lot of information about his biography about who he is about what he believes. What he's going to do for the country, I think as specific as we can be in sharing information about what Joe Biden since for what he pledges to do. I think that's going to really help, and it's not just about getting adds up there. It's about sharing this information with your friends. Your family people on me Burke colleagues, neighbours whatever it may be, but the red, I think, the reason that specific ones work better than vague ones is again the audience for so much of this is not people like are people who are listening right now, who pay really close attention to politics? It is people who do votes or have voted in the past or might vote who just don't spend a lot of time. Paying attention of politics and just dont know that much information about

who job I is, and what he's proposed mean there is such we, this in all of the polling, that we have done very Spartans here, which is the most influence. Your messages are ones that have specific information. Does the media environment is so overwhelming and so confusing they getting? Specific information is very hard. And even for like we are. Sadly, I would say, professor all news, consumers and it could be very challenging, just to get a one, very specific piece of information you looking for, because you are. Overwhelmed with content right in everyone's running a ceo game add, but you just can't. The one specific thing you want, because if this up in an amicable, apple, coverages written in this like jury, narrative, foreign minister the story of the Trump adviser, which is good for the political junkies and service by political comes, you say, but for a specific voter one if civil peace, information that is rihanna- and this is a thing

that I have been thinking about in trying to figure out the right way to do for a very long time, which is Trump has more money. He has a propaganda operation here has a domination of traditional media, even even progressive media's. Our selves, like ourselves, spent a ton of time talking about Trump How do we turn all of our supporters who are walking around with a phone with access to the internet? and, on average, a couple hundred contacts through their from contacts. Spoken to remedy else in their pocket. How do we give those people the the information in the tools they need to share information at scale right? How do we get them? Each other? Don't like? or very engaged, and they are tweeting about a lot of stuff in their personal possible facebook, like our activist I most of that is coming from and the studies were lanterns. Think as it shows that even within specific information about Trump will change

people's opinion about how about Trump on an issue like if they find out that he jerked out the deficit a trillion dollars to be for a task that both that they will raise concerns about how we handle the deficit fiscal transport issues, but it doesn't change their mind on voting right in the end, we are even even democratic activists online are caught up in this this trial new cycle of trumpets and wages. We react to it and by reacting to it and retraining, and were sharing his content without rage, we are showing its more people in playing their game in the book, in terms of more on by his staff, is pretty clever about how to use internet trolling to generate variety, further content. And I can always struck by this piece of content. They did last year last Jim in two weeks ago, sure, but whose, when trumpet hacked gratified bird and his staff-

and now people are outraged, like Trump is attacking a teenager which is disgusting and but then his campaign did a facebook corrosive that attack. But then they appended a bunch from rhetoric on energy and economies it, and so all these liberals get angry digital library. It was a delivery device for specific information, which I think is what we need to you're out- and I think one thing the campaigns can do this- it is not by there could be any campaign that has some supporters is like sort of moving in some ways to this open. Source campaigning idea where you're gonna put your pulling in from she's out there very explicitly, but he's not like you not to let other state secrets out by like if the vine campaign were to put out a memo were video with John, we doing or indeed done or any other advisers had said. We just came out with this Paul.

And we know that the following four things are the best way to persuade people. The Joe Biden is the right choice people would take that and share those thanks right. You would give them. Language? You would give them specifically use- and I think you know We ve got a bunch of this point Kirk and I thought about it a lot with that poor. We run on that point in Michigan the thing I in the memo wrote about as the too often we think about, that in me and particular like a right that memo in my head, the audience is poetic. Is in Michigan or super packs, or the DMZ were read that, like back when I was a person who did things for living and then put may influence their strategy when instead, we should be doing is finding out? How can we ourselves a cookie monster market Give information to are of listeners in the tens of thousands of people are most engaged in our activism activities. The exact permission they need to go, do things on their own right and

I think that that's a real like that is part of the next turn of the wheel and how you may campaigns working completeness, modern media environment. Is that how do you turn all of your supporters into messengers? Honeydew distributed communications and like that's the thing, I'm gonna, that we will keep figuring out, I'm looking for other democratic figure out. You are a campaign expert, now you're a campaign expert who reacts. Yes, that's what I get just a just support of airport like and when we, This isn't we say specific, provide messages. It is not. It is obvious that people are not. Some people are which is great hungry for policy details, the minutiae of policy details. I wish more people were, but a lot of voters when we say specifics just like. What's your big three point plan on creating jobs? That's that's we're talkin about like people based

information about what he stands for. What is proposing you don't even needs again into like super detailed stuff that even you know we talk about the pod, and I think figuring out what that is. What that information is that moves people and and and and sharing it and how to share it and how to make sure it goes Far and wide, like you said, is, is not just a challenge for the Biden Campaign- it's not just by devices, but it is a challenge for all of us. It is a responsibility for all of us in this campaign. Ok, when we come back I will talk to Stacy. Abrams puts it Mary, has brought by simply safe What's the number one sign of about whom security system well I had another answer to this, but there's is a home security system, it so complicated, you never use it one that doesnt work is also bad. That's that's a bad sign year. Waterways you're wrong, but a complicated security system

also a that's, not what you want. Luckily, with simply safe. We don't have that. In fact, this meant a decade fighting against complicated security system. They believe that simple is safer. It's right in the name. That's exactly why simply safe is the homes security for you simply It was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home. Twenty four slash, seven order online with the click of a button open the box place, the sensors plug it in and your home is protected around the clock no technician or cells Person- has to come and disrupt your house, which is great you're, going to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract. Who wants to be that no one lovely you have, this guy is simply save and it was incredibly easy to set up really well, it's really simple and it's easy to use and I recommend it and that's all there is to it look at that. That's all to simply say was named best overwhelm security of twenty twenty by you. News and world report. They re colleges, their aid, security systems, jacket.

Their twenty four seven professional monitoring, an emergency dispatch starts at fifty cents a day can't be that had to simply saved outcomes. Less Corrigan get a free, hd camera for it our listeners that simply saved dotcom slashed cricket to make sure they know the POD save America saying I'm joy. Now, by the founder of fair fight, the former democratic leader of the Georgia House of Representatives and twenty, Eighteen, democratic gubernatorial, candidate, Stacy, Abrams she's. Also the author of the new book time is now which is out now things are done. Back in the show, you for haven't me once again, of course, so Georgia primary on Tuesday, designed Therefore, voting rights broken machines, not enough ballots, people online until after midnight. What can we do right now to fix these problems in Georgia and elsewhere before November? So the reason for fair fight. Twenty twenty, the national work that we're doing is that

anticipated, there would be more. Pull iterations, a voter suppression and twenty twenty. What we didn't know what they would do in November, but the best way to find out would be too on the ground in all of these battleground states during their primaries and is a grotesque as these primaries have been, they ve been The perfect proof points that we need. So we know what needs to be done. We know that we need federal action to invest in and scale of vote by male across the country. We know that we need an adequate number of polling places, especially in the mist. Covert nineteen because pushing people together to crowded spaces, is it bad Here we know we need early voting. We need at least, fifteen days of it, so that people have the opportunity to vote when their schedules allow and we know that we have to have fully staffed in person voting on election day, which means secretaries,

state and local election administrators have to be working together to ensure that this happens is it and I put this all on low administrators who have limited budgets, limited reach is the reason that every state in the union has a secretary of state. Someone who oversees the elections and most important piece is that, Because we ve been on the ground since twenty nineteen watching for hearing advocating organizing we can now move into the agitation stage, which is now that we know what the problem is now do we can prove what the problem does We can start demanding legislative action, legal action and hopefully we get administrative solutions that will help mixed elections work in November. You mentioned relaxin election it seems like the Heroes act. Which is river otherwise known as phase for stimulus, has vote by mail and voter protections in it.

Hopefully we see some action there. I worry about that with Donald from the White House. In him signing and other bill absent federal action. Do you feel confident that the legislation in the states or litigation we can sort of protect the right to vote in in all the states we need before another we can do the basics and we can even do slightly better than the basics. The ring the heroes acted so critical is it states are collapsing under the weight of the economic disaster that were in and go to get. Those states prepared to reach the scale of both by mail. That will be necessary in the midst of the second phase of covert that is coming we need to have the resources made available to the states. That's. Why were asking for it, because thirty four states have vote by male. Sixteen would have it so thirty, four states have it with no excuses. Sixteen states habitable

limited access, but no one has done it at this scale, with the exception of the five states, the Dew universal vote by mail. Washington or again you TA color, I and Hawaii everyone else has. Hybrid model, and the reality is that this hybrid models are not ready for the scale of November. When so many people going to need to use it, because otherwise they have to stand in line. That's why the heroes actor so important, but saving that we do have thirty four states that have vote by mail with no excuses, so one of the pieces that we're part of the national coalition of organizations making sure people know about the right to vote by male making sure they know what the rules are where they live. There's the litigation that's helping to make certain that folks can get access but then there's a litigation that just trying to remove the barriers that we know exist in different states, Forbes wholly asinine reasons, and that's it led by Mark Elias lawyers,

many, the ACL, you fair fight as part of this. I saw them priority priorities are helping fund a lot of this but we also know that Republicans would agreed to put in twenty million dollars to fight to keep these barriers in place, and so I dont know what outcome will be, but I do know if we don't fight, we will not to date, the harm we know they intend. So speaking of potential nightmares in November I dont know that I've been more terrified during the term presidency, then last week when he threatened to deploy the military against protesters and right after he did, and I saw that I saw you tweet the final act. Authoritarian to dissolve the bonds of democracy, militarized, police and crush the vote. Trump is near his end game, and then I thought to myself. Stacy's this worried now, I'm even more worried. You know Take it you're is alarmed as I was. How close do you think we are too something truly dark. We leave

We are near the precipice. I mean the benefit of the structures we do have. We saw that the military refused to comply at the National Guard. That was the with the exception of a few men, give the amorphous case what happened in Washington DC, but by and large governors had to call in the nest the guard not federal the point at which is what we were concerned about, but but let's take a step back: let's the where tea in the Philippines has done what we have seen how, and with airline and which happened with Victor Orban. What we ve seen happen around the world that democracies have weakened and fallen because of the authoritarian actions of their president that were aided by legislators who have refused to take steps to you to block them. So, yes, I'm worried. In fact, I dedicate a whole chapter two. This deep worry, because

It has deep impact not only on us here in Amerika, but our national or international position, but also the coalition of global willingness that, when comin My team continues, ended twenty twenty one we can't be by ourselves. Clearly, we are not doing that well on our own yeah. I want to ask about the protests when you were a college student, you let a protest at Spellman in response to the news that the police who beat ride me king, were acquitted. What You learn from that experience about the power of protests to change minds and laws, and what advice would you give people who are on the streets for the first time today, protests works. It's not a solution to all ills. It does not directly translate into every action, but the first step to solving problems. The first step to curing

disease is diagnosis and demonstrations are the diagnosis. What has been so remarkable about the demonstrations in protest? We ve seen in the last few weeks, is the longevity and its them the multicultural, multi ethnic multi generational nature of this protest protest not only put into sharp relief what we need. They help us start to identify what the symptoms are, but also what the treatments can be, and so my two pieces of advice- He going do not presume that, because you ve been out there for thirteen or fourteen days that your work is done

Fortunately, and my era we protested, we were promised and then promises fell apart, and so there is something to be said, particularly juxtaposed with the upcoming elections, with the persistence of this protest. But at the same time we have to recognise that the the cure, the cure that is voting the cure, that is, policy change, like any other cure. It takes time. There is no magic pill. The magic pill does not exist magic pill. Is the process they tell you have to follow its the chemo its radiation, and so we have to eradicate and irradiate bigger,

by removing bigots from our politics. We have to irradiate those policies that are best. I mean our humanity from being recognised as though the second pieces voting feels inadequate, but it is absolutely necessary. It is painful, it is sometimes rhetoric retrograde. It sometimes takes us in the wrong direction, but we will absolutely dive. The use of force restrictions being considered in Congress right now? What do you think the best solutions are from a policy perspective? What how would you like to sort of re? Imagine the way, public safety and the

abolition and funding to some of the use of force restrictions being considered in Congress right now? What do you think the best solutions are from a policy perspective? What how would you like to sort of re imagine the way public safety and the police are in this country? So we have to recognise that we must do that. The direct action of reformation and the macro responsibility of transformation and the eight steps that removing chokehold the de escalation, those practical practices for in police are necessary in a space. Those must be adopted. Those reforms must become the law and the rule. It must be embedded in training, so those clear prescriptions for how police behave are necessary, but the transformation is how we think about the role of public say he writ large. That is that we have to allocate necessary funding so that

are addressing the systemic inequities that led to the increase in crime or the increase and the lack of safety. But we also have to address health issues like mental health, illnesses and drugs, Should we have to address the recidivism rates that occur, because when you get gale. You don't get healthcare, you can't get housing can't get a job and therefore you're going to proceed of eight. We have to address the partial system in a country that says that the solution to every problem is to lock it away, and so transformation is part of this conversation I know we are getting hung up on the language, but them message in the method- is what's the most critical piece, and so my urgency is that we we don't adopt the fall. Choice of one or the other, but recognise that we have to do both and so. You haven't you out this week. Our time is now I started reading it last night. It is excellent because you are also a novelist. You don't write. Like a politician, you write brilliantly, which has such a pleasure to read everyone should, by this book you

others very moving story at the beginning about grandmother, was actually scared to go vote, the first time she had the chance. You write that, even though she understood the meaning of the Voting Rights ACT quote, she also knew not to expect immediate change and she was right. You were just references in your other answer, to think about this tension. All the time in terms of getting people to participate in politics and keeper separating, even though the reality of our system means that the change were fighting for usually comes in, fits and starts and and not for a long time. Often, how do you deal with that tension with so many people who are impatient for change and go to reproach and work hard and then they vote, and maybe they get a little But they don't get enough and they say will now. I feel cynical and I don't want to. I don't want to keep our politicians have to stop lying about the speed of change. So the first responsibility is to tell the truth. These are deep. Systemic problems,

systems were designed to maintain them, so anything we do to fix them is going to be going against. What was intended number to that we have to be held accountable, not only when you vote, but when we're in office and that responsibility rests on the politician to communicate what happening, and why and how? But also on the voters in the citizens to push back and say what have you done, have you done enough and how can I help? I say that politicians are like thirteen year old girls. We respond to money peer pressure and attention

and the responsibility we have is that we need to make sure all three levers are working to make our system better. But fundamentally, cynicism comes about because despair overwhelms hope and despair sets in when you don't when what you believe should happen seems impossible and what I say is it is possible, but it's going to take time, and I can't do it alone and anyone who tells you that they can fix the problem is not telling you the truth, so we need authenticity from our politicians. We need engagement from our constituents and we need to understand that the system is not this disembodied set of ideas. It is people making choices. And we have to change the people who are making the choices. I am not going to ask you about VP step because you get enough questions about that from everyone else. Are you do ass? You like, we were those who go back over. I do Ask you to offer some messaging advice to the bombing campaign. We spoke for the wilderness and you had a square

line, you said, if all you offers darkness, then people don't know where you're going explain what the darknesses, but then offer with the light should be. I want Democrats to talk about why we win America. What kind of light should Joe Biden and other Democrats running be talking about right now at this moment? How do we win America? I will actually say that I think we're doing a pretty good job of it right now in part because from the vice president, across the spectrum. We are talking about the anger and the legitimacy of anger and pain. We're talking about the legitimacy of protest. I disagree with some the characterizations made by some politicians, but actually, I think Vice President Biden has done an excellent job of listening of offering solutions, but, more importantly of saying, he's made mistakes and I think that's the important peace, because people don't trust the light if it can be an oncoming trolley car, they want

no that its authentic, and so I think we have to not lose the honesty of this moment that we have to keep. About it, but we have to enlarge the conversation. George Floyd is a tragedy a travesty, but the extra judicial killing that he faced also faced beyond Taylor and right now we will not be held accountable. Ahmad are, he was murdered in the streets and his assailants were given seventy four days of freedom before they were held to account. But we also have trans women and men who are being murdered because there are no hay kind, was in too many states it actually recognise their humanity and so part of the light is making sure we use this moment to enlarge the conversation, not lose the narrative and not lose the urgency of this conversation about justice and police brutality, but that we,

also as Democrats acknowledge that for a lot of folks what they see, it may not be exactly what they feel but its emblematic of things. They fear and we have to be able to say we see that as well. You ve been in the fight to protect voting rights for for some time now. What is making you hopeful? as you are look ahead towards November, so never publicans, love to bludgeon me. With his narrative that, because I had, I turned out unprecedented numbers of voters in my twenty eighteen campaign, that that's proof that there's no suppression, I think what we saw on Tuesday? Does it? at our job belying. That than anything I could say, because what we know is that suppression and turn out in participation can coexist. But what gives me such hope is that so many people are voting who not vote it before. So many people are breathing coded nineteen. What we saw and Wisconsin the people said the future was more, was more important to them in there

lives because they knew that what they were doing was setting course. What we saw happen in Georgia, the same and so unhopeful, because people are angry about voter suppression, but they're not defeated by it. We have to keep fighting in this long as we keep fighting. We have hope of success Stacy Abrams, your new book is our time is now everyone please go by its an outstanding book. Thank you always for coming by pod, save America and come back again, Saint John You haven't me and is always a delight. Basis these Abrams for joining us today have a good weekend will see next week everyone POD save America is a product of cricket media. The executive user is Michael Martinez. Our system producer is Jordan. Waller its An edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is our sound engineer, things to tell you something.

Katy, long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support into our digital team. Logic cone normal Conan yell freed in my look, who film and upload these episodes as videos every week.