Hi, I'm shows you toda time, elisa us well being, and I'm use mean handy where three best friends, like literally sisters out of the same, were also actresses disruptors and the host of new crooked media podcast. Dare we say every week will diverted issues affecting our generation from income inequality, eligibility to write and the nightmare that his eyes and indicate this is about to get there. We say he did. New episodes dropped every thursday starting august, eleven subscribed to dear. We say wherever you listen to your part, casts the present experts Today's episode is simply safe: home security, old days of home security systems. The ones that looked like Wired monstrosities complete with sirens and sensors that the family pet could set off are over What a sense simply saves: innovative an award winning technology, your home and family can be protected by the security system of the future. The future twenty four, seven professional muttering, some possess agents call you the moment. A threat is detected and dispatch. Police are first responders

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I welcome the plaza america, I'm John favour ambient viper on today show the inflation reduction act is law was cheney is defeated, Donald trump is still under instigation and doktor oz is still looking for creating. then I checked with filmmaker alex holder, whose documentary about trumps file days in office was supported by the january six committee. So that's funny, but first crook,

new podcast dear, we say is officially here in the first episode out now best friends, Josie toda eliseo, pascal painter and yasmine comedy give you ten hilarious tips on how to celebrate your birthday. Don't miss it. It's a fantastic show, new episodes of, dare we say, dropped every thursday wherever you get your podcast. Also we get another announcement in you already know all of us that were huge fans of carry him issues. I welcome all the time been wearing them for years and years and years. The only issues that I wear now we are excited to announce that good and carry Uma, have collaborated on two awesome pairs of shoes that listeners of positive mercosur love. You can order your pairs today in the crooked store and, as always, a portion of the poor. Seeds from these shoes and any item you buy in our store goes to vote writers. The law morgan asean focused on voter idee. I saw one design features and I voted sticker.

that's all over the shoe, and one is a sleek white pair that says no steps back on this side that I am wearing right now I wore it in nashville wore these shoes in nashville were then tennessee they're, a fantastic check them out claim your pair a crooked dot com, slash kicks dan. Have you got your period now? I've checked the mail every day doesn't arrive. Someone a pair of experiments. I would wear them and I would actually privet by showing them on camera. Unlike you who could be wearing, I mean right right get my you're you're over forty doubts at its flexibility that pressing. I gotta skip like that, they pay and out to see. If they can get your shoes. No such locker knows its work table anyway, I'm wearing them. I promise alright, let's get to the news hours after Joe Biden signed a bill that will lower the cost of health care and prescription drugs crackdown on billionaire tax cheats and do more to fight climate change than any government.

as in history here was a headline in the new york times even unburdens big day, he still in trumps long shadow sub head for the sitting president, even a triumphant ceremony design, major domestic legislation can hardly break through the nonstop attention on his predecessor. The indus took a deep breath. I don't if the zaire came through in audio, but there's a deep breath dan. You want to give a quick time. appreciate a rating before we dive in these. Yale does not go high enough. Just when I saw that when you saw the headline we knew we we knew The author was right. We knew the writer was: is a peter baker? Special? Yes, like Peter bay, is a very, very smart guy. He is probably, if not the one of the most respected reporters in Washington has been around for very long time.

I can all those in the documentary that I'm about to interview Alex hold her about he's he's in Alex documentary. Storm the capital, I know I is one of the one of the people interviews quite a bit he by anyone only way. Did I think someone a smart if you d better, could write a story. This obviously stupid is better possibilities one. brain briefly left his body. That can happen to This was a very specific and devious plot to murder me specifically by sending my blood skyrocketing through the moon. I told them then had this somewhere in the outline, and I was like, I think we we should just start with this and then said that he was he is. There is not enough coffee to get himself ready. The coffee for this

start with this. Take as I am on a one coffee a day regimen these days, and I went up to one and a half coffee just to be fully prepared for this moment. Does he prepared? I just like? I know we don't want adult bike a rabbit whole here, but I just want to say then that makes me more crazier than the media passively, covering the things the media has. Control over This is a story about donald trump. overshadowing Joe Biden written by the people who work covering Donald trump enforcing him to overshadow Joe Biden, and they are proving the point of view. Article by writing, a story of trump overshadowing Joe Biden, therefore overshadowing Joe Biden on his big day on that day, you people of agency here he does it to overshadow that's a choice you made. You can't be like if Peter bay, or went out in spring.

graffiti on the white house, and there were two story about vandalism afflicting the by demonstration. It's like you did in your response, one for this, so I want to come to the defense of my friend and colleague, Peter baker, the youth journalist, I know, but in all seriousness I wonder what the actual challenge here for the Biden administration, because while it pains me deeply to admit that Peter baker has a point, the news that the story that that particular story, of course ridiculous, of course right. But then, but going forward. The news tends to cover. What's new, there won't be many more developments in the inflation reduction act story. It will no longer be new. We've got the passage. We got the signing ceremony media a celebration here and there then it's over and there are constant developments in the trump did crime story. We are going to cover them next, we're not covering them first, because

we have agency dan, more diverse. But how do democrats in the white house make sure people know what's in this bill and- this story alive, even though the media will not be covering it for much longer yeah, I you are correct. There is a colonel. There is a reality at the core of this Peter baker. Story which is donald trump, is omnipresent. To date. Biden has had trouble breaking through those two things are true but, like I said just a little self examined, it would have really benefited that story, but this, if there is a there, is a challenge for the winners, and so the question is This is a huge compliment. How do you let people know about your huge accomplishment and time? You have them vote with, I accomplishment in mind in november, and so

jennifer jenna mali Dylan, who was by his campaign manager or the white house, deputy chief of staff and Anita Dunn, who is their senior advisor and sort of like messaging guru, wrote this memo to RON Klain that found its way, I'm sure not by accident at all, into politico, and they list a whole bunch of things are doing. Thought our plan. I have written many of those memos over the years, in other memo. I would do anything, it's the right thing to do these hot all them you call them message box. Yes, it's another public! yes, instead of just leaking them, but I cannot out the middleman right giving slipping it two ryan lizzy. I just I set it out to the world right, your colleague, Mr Visser, the most transparent, nemo writer and history editor. I, like I said I but we're coveted, there's like I think to the extent of any advice on how democrat,

should deal with, as I think it's not just the mine went ass, its every Democrat on the ballot and everywhere house senate governor dog catcher. Whatever is a couple of things, one when we think about our media strategy, about how to get people to know about this, we have to work backwards from the audience the people. We need to reach get the information and the We need to reach our people, who are originally deciding whether they're gonna voter right- and I think he one core group here- is young people who we know your house our climate. We also know they are the group. It is move most dramatically against Biden since twenty twenty in terms of approval ready, ads or hearing that this huge accomplishment. How do you make sure they do you gotta work backwards, based on where they get their information? What media outlets, wyatt platform arms. What who will what influencers off that, because what we know is that traditional oh amount of, like rose garden ceremonies,

still high to do. You know on, Some grant that was called by the local news is going to reach those people. So how do you reach them related to that imperative? Number two is come on parts of america like that I read it as we now that is the answer to all things and I'm Joe had giant goma. somewhat kidding I'm somewhat getting, but not really, which is in a than which, were you say, the media won't cover new things. You have to over index your media strategy on outlets. Who will give you the opportunity to tell your story on your terms to your people so, as if America other progressed that lets. You have to do that next is have to recognise that if the mediaeval cover, what happened asked with what their true biases the thing they thirst for is conflict yellows outcome. At all talk about,

Talk about what you did but spent is just as much effort about we're public in trying to stop you from doing or what they voted against and so we'd into it. And there is this report I read somewhere or over my head, I'm not entirely sure which, and I'm sure someone with Google can figure it out that binds going to give a big speech in a couple of weeks that is going to sort of lay out the contrast for them. In terms of that's good- and the last thing is Peter bigger we have agency. We can go tell me We don't have to wait for the new york giants. We can decide whether buying is overshadowed by trump by sharing with our friends posting on social etc, and I think it's it's it's key to figure out what the most popular parts of the bill are, how to talk about the bill right like I've struggled with this too. It's it's the you know the the the the biggest investment in climate change in history and but when you look at you know that navigator research has him pulling the

this morning on the most popular parts of the bill and it's very simple, and not very sexy or lowering healthcare costs. Lowering prescription drug costs, lowering energy bills, lowering families, energy bills by eighteen hundred dollars, which is what the bill will do, is more popular and more effective than talking about sweeping climate action. Now sweeping climate action and the biggest climate investment ever it. You know that could be more effective with some of the younger voters that you were just talking about, but I do think for most people in the country hearing that these investments in clean energy are actually going to lower their energy bills, because clean energy is cheaper than dirty energy. At this point and is going to make a big difference with people, but look, I think it's a huge challenge. I all the focus groups I did for the wilderness were before the inflation reduction act passed, except for the last one I just did in at the

and I said I wanted to do on after our show and whom we have some work to do this. If its workers it was, it was nine voters around the table and I they were complaining that are binding. The demo, it hadn't done anything these people do not like republicans at all. The fact are extreme there's, no chance they'll vote for brian camper, any republicans, but they were very unhappy with with Joe Biden. The democrats- and I said well, have you heard about the the bill that Congress just passed that the president finds about to sign tomorrow and one person in the group had heard about it, and everyone else was surprised by that that person started saying. I think it's something about health care in climate and there like what they did something climate. Finally, I didn't know that no one. and this is well within the news when this is ultimately the huge challenges of e were communicating through traditional press, your reaching, no one who is not

I decided about whether they're going to voted, who they're gonna vote for and, like those people, are not they're, not watching cnn they're, not read the new york times, they're, not on twitter, and that's where we have to think A more credit. This is really hard right is absolutely really really hard. I think that I think that the binding restriction has been doing this, or maybe I'm just imagining it but, like you know, calculators about

It means for you how much money you're going to save on either with ac a subsidies with prescription drugs on energy bills, like I think, just have. Having done all these focus groups, people are most interested in, like, of course, what's going to make a difference in my life. How is this going to change my life, because I I did get some comments over the course of the focus groups like oh there was this big infrastructure bill that passed, but of all the roads in my in my state are still broken, and, although, although there's too many potholes still- and why don't I see anything from the infrastructure bill had changed anything I heard it was going to do stuff and it hasn't done anything, and I do think there is this- this hunger out there for government to do something, that's going to improve their lives in some measurable way. Now the challenge with this bill is a lot of the provisions that are

Make a difference for people aren't going to take effect for awhile, but letting people know what's coming to them and what's going to happen, you know, I think, that's going to be really important for the by administration to get out there and every Democrat, like you, said in all of us. We all have agency here all right. So now we did that. Now we can go to the trump did crime story, previous: Joe Biden is overshadowing trumps. Criminality. Is that a problem for Democrats mosquito nets we of in our times, so there are quite a few new developments. Worthless bout in the mar a investigation, we learn that the justice department is still investigating trumps decision to hide nuclear secrets in his beach house. They said that there still interviewing witnesses including former white has council, patsy bologna and his deputy there's report about that. We also learned that one reason, the f b I finally get a search warrant- is that they saw some alarming on the morrow logos surveillance footage that they subpoenaed in georgia. We learned the trumps form

Turning MR rudolf giuliani has been told that he's a target of a criminal investigation into the attempt to overturn the last election. He he sat with the grand jury yesterday. They finally get rudy to testify, We also learned that is buddy. Lindsey, Graham, has been ordered by a federal judge. To testify, graham, is appealing that because he doesn't want to testify. And in new york we learned that Alan weisel Berg, trump's longtime chief financial officer, just pled guilty to all fifteen felonies he's been charged with related to the tax scheme. He ran for trump's business lot, a lot of potential crimes there and and real crimes that that in the the case of Alan Westberg. Didn't we also learn. The trump is apparently having a hard time finding a lawyer whose willing to represent him in all this mess, which I felt funny because on one hand, trumpets as having a time. Finding a lawyer was willing to represent him

If the other hand we found out that shane goal margaret the new york times reported that he there were two days over the last couple of weeks since the f b, I search warrant where he raised million dollars from donors on each day, which are like the two best days he's had in a long long time? in fundraising so having a real hard time. Getting a lawyer to represent him for his legal troubles, but on the political side of his republican support and the money that's coming in from Republicans has never been better. What's what's going on there, I think you could probably break it down like this. Is that no republican, elected official or party official, who has backed donald trump through any of his crops dating back five? Six years now has paid a real political price for having done so, might there is the people who pay the price, as we will talk about in the next segment? Are the people who oppose from now for attorneys? That is something different, the

you mentioned. Ready giuliani is a target of a criminal investigation. How did he find himself an opposition by being donald trump saturn? and a just, and it is not because Donald trump likely guilty. We should be very clear about that. Guilty. People deserve representation, of course, and rich guilty critically. Guilty white, then never trouble getting attorneys right. That happens all the time. What is about trump is I think he has such a terrible. We dangerous client than he keeps getting if you try to defend shrunk from his crimes, you somehow become a participant crimes they crimes. They take the example of the affidavit that was so they claim that all of the materials that they are national archives wanted had been returned when they absolutely had not. That is probably because it I'm speculator trump told his attorneys that they had all been returned, so his attorney put their name legally binding documents.

that and so in general, most lawyers don't want to end up on the other side. They don't have a go higher their own attorney from doing this, and so I think, traumas, a uniquely dangerous client. Now Obviously chinese, but he's a crime super spreader yeah, that's right! That's right! You get near them. You're going to get you'll get the crime on. You then. It's I mean I do. I thought that the in the mar a lago investigation, so the government, the d o j, basically said they do not want to unseal the affidavit, which is basically the evidence that led the judge to issue the search warrant to the f b. I, which trump

and the press both asked for them to an unseal, the affidavit and the reason is they said. Disclosure of the government's affidavit at the stage would also likely chill future cooperation by witnesses whose assistance may be sought as this investigation progresses, and it could also harm quote other high profile investigations as well that that was pretty interesting because there there was this thought at the beginning. After the search was conducted. Okay, maybe d, o J. It is just interested in getting an n d o d and the federal government in general just interested in getting all of their classified information back and once they have it back, leave trump alone, and that's that

It seems that either, if they're continuing the investigation, either there's a potential, they may bring charges or there's more. They may believe, there's more classified information. They still don't have back or like they just said he hinted there. There are other investigations somehow connected to the mar a lago investigation that are all wrapped up together, that they don't want to tip their hand on what did you think it is very intriguing? John. I'm excited to see what happens I'll tell you that I mean who knows right. It is like, I think, a lee says. The trumps legal jeopardy did not end at the rate that he is like you see, he's got legal jeopardy and multiple jurisdictions from baltimore crimes and places, but at this,

specific crime that is currently overshadowing Joe Biden's tremendous record of success. He is not out of the woods yet. I think that is that is, is interesting and notable, and you know probably for for trump there's reports that he wants to release the surveillance tape, the surveillance footage of the f b I conducting the search at mar a lago. Apparently the fbi, when they started conducting the search trump in the in his family, was watching from new york. They were watching the surveillance, footage and the fbi. I told them to shut it off and they said no, they decided not to show it off and they just watched the the the search anyway and now trump wants to release that footage. Why do you think he wants to release that footage? I can't imagine there's anything interesting there, but some of the reporting around this has said that the reason that trump allies want to do this as they think it will further excite and inflame the trump base, because you would see you know, f b, I agents whatever terrible nazi or jackbooted thug analogy these rights

lunatics or using roaming around his beach house. I don't know why that that would be interesting, but I think they think it's just like more content. can see like, ultimately, what europe wants to be is a martyr. He wants to be a but have you ve, no revenge and then to be a piece of evidence that would dominate. We media it would rally People to his defense, you know some of the people who came out there right away who have since backed away as it turns out that every single thing he said from the day of the raid for was ally will come back out, because this will be a moment to express support worked for trump's. Why it is. I can help his legal case. I don't think that's really going to help his larger political case, but I think it will We mean more one million dollar days and online donations for his scam pack that he that uses to pay for his legal defense. I don't think it's going to help his political case with the with the general electorate by any means, but clearly he's just running a republican primary here and he wants to like you said he wants to be the victim.

Because, if he's the victim, then republicans will feel forced to rally around him like he. I went through I've thought that from the beginning, that, like trump, is going to run and he's going to be the nominee again then there was like appeared where I briefly flirted with the idea that may be rhonda santas could take this guy down, and I was waiting for the moment the trump announced for president and to see how wrong descent React to that, but a similar moment came where the fbi's searches our logo and Rhonda. Santas is just like there's no daylight between haven't trump. He just go right like lucky. I thought you had a chance to separate himself just a little bit on this. No one did no one in the republican party, except for the you know the usual that we're about to talk about separated themselves from trump, no matter how bad the facts get for him around this, which, we now to think. Like I don't know, I don't think anyone can take this guy down on the bed. Made them are willing to do it, then, maybe that actually, maybe,

the reduced anti says: a complicated political calculus right now, which is, although he has favoured he is up for re election in a few months and were he to separate himself from donald trump on an fbi re taking place in iran to send this estate a shop or to actively turn against him than that? I think that ice he still favoured but that, like you, I understand why he did not do that. The question will be one. You know what happens the minute after the votes are counted if he wins reluctant, how does he navigate tromp that biocidal. If he's so obviously a huge favorite to win the nomination, were he to run again. But I don't know that what happened delight this past weeks tells us a ton about at least how ronda santas would run against him, while one republican who separated himself from trump this week is our boy mike pence of hang mike pence. Fame then put that in the outline.

it made me laugh, the panthers back in the news for gave a speech told republicans to stop attacking the f b. I and also said that he would consider an invitation to testify before the january sixth committee when asked by a reporter what he would do if they reached out and what do you think's going on there I mean the occam's razor explained for, I think something my pants did he's one of the dumbest peep on american public life like there's, not a, but there's a lot of strategy happening there. Let me do you let's just presume for second, that he is less done. Then everyone knows to be worth trumped. You run his chances of winning a nomination against trump are the school skill there, zero if he doesn't do something to differentiate himself from trump. Right is used to make a case against trop. He would still lose most likely by its only shot, and so I think his like the acceptance of my

this is something other than a national joke- comes from the fact that trump tried to murder him in failure and so it's a flying in january, you see like the wall, the wall street journal editorial born in some wake donor looking donor world and sort of man adjacent establishment folks have come around on my pants in part because of what happened on January six and that he stood strong that day and with the heroic task of not committing treason that was doomed to fail, and so I think that he's probably sort of like writing that a little bit. What that actually but he's, definitely not testifying. In a live hearing he's not about to be cassidy, hutchinson or or yeah. He and Liz Cheney are going to team up together in the next january. Jd pads mean it's just: it's such a small constituency as we're about to talk about with, with with cheney, for republicans who, like pence's cases, basically, I'm everything you loved about the trump administration.

Without all the character flaws before the charisma or the group right exactly, but that's that's my point right. It's like no, no no people aren't people aren't supporting trump. The maccabees doesn't love the accomplishments of the fucking trump administration than others singing the praises about the abraham core has even you said that, but somewhere in his head, just exploded, a fact that that's why they're they're? There then for the character floods there there, because he's gonna, thats all enemies like stern, a grievance and anger and resentment. That's what they love. It's crazy pence might have new competition, though in the race to be the anti from republican and twenty twenty four hour, queen less cheney on Wednesday. The cheese thinking about running for president. This is after cheney lost her I primary against republican lawyer harriet hagman on tuesday by sixty six to twenty nine percent. That's a lot! I thought that's a big loss, but the next day

a cheney hinted that she's not done with politics. During an interview with Savannah Guthrie on the today show- let's listen, I will be doing whatever it I still keep Donald trump out of the overall well, I know you didn't say yes or no, and that's fine, if you're thinking about it, but are you thinking about it? Are you thinking about running for president? It That's a decision that I'm going to make in the in the coming months of it. I'm not going to make any announcements here this morning, but but it is something that I am thinking about and I'll make a decision in the coming months. Den are you: are you heading to cheyenne to run this thing or what I presume raghavan together right we're gonna gangbanger get out again. Maybe jackson holes nice, it's setup camp.

That's it that's exactly what a bunch of resistance liberals would do where they may have trotter, don't don't even a little, not the little blue dot and why we need to be drawn. Where can we get a shy latte where we need to deal with one child assuming that lose Jamie is both smart, which I think she is and genuinely wants to stop tromp from becoming president again, which I think she does. How would this work? Is this a good idea? What what could she bethink, Here it wouldn't work. John, that's what I mean look at it, I think this whole thing is very fascinating. Intellectual exercise, which is probably wherein tops out in terms of significance by like here's, how they hear the various scenarios will as happens. One is tromp runs the just runs a bunch of republicans run and she joined in that field

their anita large malta, candid fields is there. Are there are enough hard core? Can serve it is. wish cheney republic, anti tromp, republicans tat gives out. There's an I mean she we nine percent in a state or her family are political royalty, so it can be very different in iowa or south carolina somewhere, like at the chinese arms, have been political royalty in that state for half a century. Another world is trump doesn't run. Then there is no that then there's no lane for her right. Her lane is anti trump end of january. You like stopping big lies like that's, not theirs. The others know him to run and the next one is. Everyone else takes a pass. Your theory on to santos bears out and just trump and cheney right, and maybe there are some other, like thirty or forty or yahoo's, but those two people. In that case, I dont think there would be a single currency debate. I think the rnc would

hold the debate. If the only two significant candidates were tropic jenny, I think they, for I heard that their flirting with requiring every candidate who participate in the debate to sign a loyalty pledge that they will ultimately support the nominee, in which case they think that lithuania would not sign that pledge, because she will not ultimately support tromp yet and that I think that the party would probably pass a resolution saying she was not not a republican yokel they just if there are going to fuck around with this. Let me think, I'm a little gittin known list jamie allowed the decision to hold primaries or are in most cases decided by the party, so they could bank there's a legitimate chance off. Your line would cancel its primary if it was cheney trop now. What is interesting here. What I think is savvy about it is changed, congress. Another four months this here has given this uniform. as long as she is talking about running for president. She is gone you have a platform at once, she's out of time,

What's a generous six hearing committee is overly surplus. Vision is over to make a large public case about trump, like pretending to run for president or contemplate running for it will give her media access to the media, give replaced to make their case and if she wants to make the case to republicans independence by republicans, etc. That returning to two donald trump is deeply dangerous. She will have the ability to do that. I don't think it. This is a decision to have a platform not to be president. What about the possibility of a third party run entitled that one I bet that would be one way third party runs- are always very hard. You'd have to join, probably an existing party that has ballot access like the libertarian party, so she runs on the libertarian on the libertarian ticket. I think or or she gets on the balance, because a fuckin no labels his raised by Money making changes changing? The angel yang wishes forward: party ticket

I think there'd be real risk there and we we, like. We don't know enough about the political, environmental and all kinds of what, if Biden's running, with his approval rating into the democratic a real risk that I couldn't et, I trump conservative could I've just enough voters in these battleground states, are more republic end in the national average young and tip I mean whose I know she would run out and that's an area like this is not a howard shalt sort of situation. This is the danger of of of her on the ballot everywhere, and it is a third party candidate. Is that she'd like who is always cheney voter? It's either. Like you said, a conservative republican, probably college educated from the bush, was changed.

who just was sick of trump. Those people are few and far between a lot of them have already just crossed over to vote for Joe Biden in the last election, if not in twenty, sixteen and twenty twenty, so the good, though the number of them they're, still republican or a few or again its people who now have been voting democrat, who, for the last several elections, who were like well, I'm kind of sick, a democrat I don't like trump, but was cheney and that that would pull votes away from Biden. I pre particularly worried in states with you know a lot more college educated voters that are turning bluer,

like an arizona like a georgia, I think Liz cheney on the ticket as as third party in those states could really spoil the election for the Democrats, the question is: are there red states where she just she just gets on the ballot in some red states, that a Democrat would never win any way and she's on the ballot? So she spoils, so she makes sure that trump can't win that state or she she takes enough votes away from trump into like a redder state to spoil the election for him and then helps helps the Democrat. That's that's the there's like some math there that could work in a redder state. Hard, because the academic only identify two states off the top of my head. Where that is possible, will you actually eighty three debts? We want utah's one interesting one, just because it's a very unique electorate, but it would probably be north carolina in texas because its democrats tend to wednesday battleground states that we wine in twenty and we need to win and twenty twenty four wrong credibly close this

we lost, we lost my pretty large margin, so you would have to really suck up a huge swathes of voters mean math in the south is really interesting. We have a very, very large black population that makes up a huge social democrats, but you would have really you have to get to like ross perot, like numbers stickleback. Ninety ninety two: to really be you to drive someone's win number into the low forties, which is what Ross Perot did that created the math environment, where bill Clinton could become president with a pretty overwhelming electoral college margin without coming anywhere near getting fifty percent of the vote nationally yeah. No, I think it's. I think it's pretty tough. Do you think Liz cheney's we lost says anything about the republican party that we didn't already now I don't now I like it. I like only arise for a long time and I was very curious if you any thoughts on it but ass, it is, I think, the one thing you, if you look at the war, all of the primary that have happened today, because we're getting kind of to the end here is that

You can win a republican primary if trump is against you, but you can not what a republican premier if you are against europe, and that is it that is relatively import. That's why brain camp one enlist any lost and she lost by law, and I just think the constituency out there in the republican party for candidates who want to run specifically against tromp, like you said, is just it's too small. It's too small, and but you know what you said in a state where the chinese are political royalty, aright. we come back filmmaker alex holder talks about his new documentary on the final days of trumps presidency. The pod save america is brought to bear, carry him look you already know where freak for carry him issues. They were cool there comfortable their available in both bold, prince and neutral. Colors that I love wearing all the time, because we don't you know, John. We excited to announce. This is an announcement that announcement it a lot of talk right there, but now

What's to stop wherever you're listening, it's probably been gone, and it's like just love it doing. This live blog kind of thing, as login is here during a little beep beep beep, beep yep. Thirteen right there was that cricket Miriam have collaborated to launch our own co branded aka low tops in two designs, though we think you'll, really love provisional crooked and carry emma shoes together these sneakers are everything you love about both crooked and carry him mother, made ethically and sustainably from organic cotton, canvas, natural, rubber, cork and recycled plastics, and every pair you buy plants to trees in the brazilian rainforest or carry him as in house ecological restoration programme there, just as good on the outside two ways to wear your progressive values. One shoe is covered with an. I voted sticker print that our design team knocked out of the park knocked it out of the park and the other is a classic white sneaker, with the words no steps back sneakers that I'm, literally wearing right,

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arid all sat down for multiple interviews with you between sort of like the final months of the campaign and couple months after trump left this and they did so knowing that they had? No control over the project at all. Why? Why do you think You get them to agree to that. So I think at what when we first started, they were pretty convincingly gonna win the election and some of them, so they want a famous so executive, but that they will this will be a repeat of the twenty six international. Ever again the policies were all wrong, and yet don juniors favorite line was during the campaign was, let's make liberals cry again, which I was I was pretty cruel and not that funny, nah, but a lot of watching the documentary. A lot of his jokes are just terrible, yeah, really bad, and he sort of, I think he he laughs a laugh, as jack jack, and then people laugh because he's laughing. I think because he's just a bit more a moron, but I mean

since that they thought that they were going to win, and also I was somebody I wasn't part of the mainstream media gets right a british guy foreign than would have any political skin in the game. So why not have this random british dude film ass, win the election in the third was was. I was actually that the british accident I mean today They trump is obsessed with the queen. The try he's absolutely obsess one was on every occasion. I met him. He would always bring the queen up and I I wonder whether or not as you know he feels like the trump. Many are like a was, I m sure, royal dynastic family bags were I'm sure, also built. The simplicity of his brain is just like a guy with british acts and bring up when exactly it's all he's got yeah I mean with erica. I wish there was guy bridge accent. Have you been to the gulf coast of scotland, so I always got business on his mind, so you first sat down with

in December twenty twenty after he lost what this state of mind that point and do you think he actually believed he won or did he seem like he was full of shit. It is certainly for the ship, but he will now also believes that you- and I we do think was what is actually important? Because there has to be so delude no and still be the president of the united states of america, the incumbent, the commander in chief, I mean the guy with a fucking nuclear football was literally standing behind me in the diplomatic reception room yeah, while c is literally reading out of how to be a totalitarian dictator. Yet we need to find brave judges that agree with my position right so yeah. He convinced himself of the lie, but I mean

that interview in it's own right was extraordinary. I mean I didn't think it was gonna happen. I mean this is a month of the election. He wasn't giving interviews to anybody and we're outside the white house. It out the secret savagely or the czechs and everything we go inside and I still didn't think he was in a calm and then at the re. The moment I knew he was on his way was when the secret service also moving around, and then I had them say.

mogul on the moon yeah. At that point, it was like a release is actually happening and he sits down and yeah. It was just an extraordinary experience in the sense of this. Is the white house he's the the incumbent president of the united states of america and as that very famous george washington painting? Looking down at him, and he is literally undermining democracy, and it was just when I said this on the death of Harsha off the off the internet held onto a wall, because I was so taken aback by what had actually happened, because it's a big difference between him doing his the the rhetoric at a campaign rally? Yes, you actually sitting in the white house and saying the bullshit that he would say well that I was going to ask, because you know there's like a very fair. Anonymous quote that was given to the washington post in the weeks after the election where's, senior republican official said like just let him have his fun.

Do you think he's going he's not going to lie he's going to leave eventually he says it's fine, just let 'em burn himself out whatever and of course, famously that almost didn't happen, point. While you are making this documentary, you start thinking to yourself, oh shit. This could go really badly and maybe he's gonna try not to leave and things could things could could go south pretty fast honesty. After the interview I mean, That back into be really was quite extraordinary because he just wouldn't stop talking about how the election was won by him, and he wasn't saying why he thought he wanted. He was actually coming up with remedies to show how it was stolen from him. So he was talking about how the georgia officials need to reopen the votes to compare the signatures, and he was saying that

a secular state and not the governor of georgia were stupid people because they want agreeing with his position and actually we need to open up a move it to the letter to the state legislature because they agree with him, and he was saying that we need to find the right Does it such as though it was it? There is no way that that this wasn't gonna get more and more serious as time moved on. That was at least that's what I was thinking So you interviewed him for a second time at mar a lago a few months after he left office. What was he like that that there was a very different personality? He was much more depressed, who is. He was angry in depressed. When I met him in the white house, he was sort of angry, but quite asserted, whereas Imola, he was angry and depressed and the reason he was depressed. I found out one of his aides told me before he came in. He was in a really bad mood because he was going through withdrawal from not being

able to use twitter like actual withdrawal. Actually, that was the was that she is that he was getting through withdrawal so and he he had put on weight and he's a big guy anyway, but he has really sort of put on weight and it was very down, and so he was like fuck. He walks into my log and his hideous painting of of him from like that about thirty years ago. in the oil painting of him, and I wanted to include that in the shot, but I wasn't sure whether or not they would be embarrassed of us, including that in the shop anyway, and it was so happy that working sure Then the matter, MR president and he covered, ignores man. He starts talking back night. Isn't this the most beautiful floor you ve ever seen? It is very mean more logos, stunning, but the floor. I mean it was just the constant, constant, positive feedback about anything. Exactly those to whom down in the whole of it were doing.

I mean we're doing. The the small talk- and I said last time that we bespoke was at the white house and he's like oh, but this is much more beautiful than the white house I mean he bullies. absolutely did it did, mar a lago seem like a safe place to keep nuclear secrets. I mean it's a members club. I have a cold, I mean it's probably the worst place. You would ever keep secrets, is the security like there. I mean obviously there's the secret service security, but it's much less than when he's at the white house, but it has just around him really exactly I mean I was able to walk around the place totally. We were sort of left to our own devices, so I mean it was not at all secure and At one point in the interview we were interrupted because the members of the public that are at this club making noise and sharpness like tell them to shut up it was like yeah. I mean it is just, but it's so typical trump to believe

if these documents belong to him right, I mean he's just I was going to say: do you have a theory having spent so much time with him? Do you have a theory as to why he would take classified info with to morrow logo and not just take it with them like, oh by accident, but then be asked for it back by the government by federal agents and refuse to give it all back yeah I mean it's because his name's on it and he thinks it's his. I mean he's just as simple as that. The thing with jump is is that he really is just a very simple, quite strange, dumb guy I mean you have to respect. Razor on this kind of stuff, exactly armenia? He in a good sense of how to entertain people in a good sense of television and a good sense of what he said. You had a real people up, but I think beyond that, there's no other than this since the two I mean as those of the same, when he's doing the thing that he's quite good amazon is in thy gauges. Very is very basic, but I mean he kept talking Kim jong on all the way through these interviews and that those are the letters that he had between the two of them

that in his mind, they they are his letters, and so obviously they should be in his in his house. You testified before the January sixth committee and, ah you did the deposition, they'd subpoenaed, some footage. What was the focus of the committee's questions? I think they were surprised about the fact that we have this access and no one knew about it. I mean the troms do about it. and the people around him and he clearly didn't have as if he was obviously ridiculous, because we were always there and am very present, but I think they were surprised by the access. I think they were interested in the footage that we captured on January six, which wasn't with the family. We just that we were in d c and- and that was a horrific day, and we capture this moment of one of trump's own supporters, essentially being crushed to death on the steps of the capitol

I mean he's, tell you a z responsible for every single way, and so I think they were very interested, not footage and also just what people are doing is times as well in the lead up to it and the people around them as well as they were. They were interested in and also the behind the scenes of what was going on mars. You into being the president another's was their footage that they were looking for, that didn't make it into the final documentary I watch the document you last night and by the way very compelling well done, though I kept looking for something who's gonna, be like a revelation in terms of what the january six commission is investigating, and I didn't maybe I'm I'm in the weeds on everything, but I didn't notice anything, and I was wondering if there was a bunch of footage that didn't make it in that the committee found interesting, so the There is a lot of fidgeted didn't make it in. I imagine Ali valley that army, I think, look it out. They have their own set of knowledge and am again

they want to look at, and now they have everything and they'll probably take the pieces. They think they need What did you get a sense of lines of inquiry from the committee that supply I you or where they were heading or areas? They were looking for that we all haven't seen on in prime time over the last few months, it was all I mean them very straightforward, and I think that it was very that they were married to direct their quest. I'm very engaged, and I it was very clear how important this was. I mean for me here is I'm going there and sitting down and I'm now talking to probably the most consequential political investigations watergate and I'm just like what the fuck is it as though it was a it. Was it

It definitely showed the importance of what they were doing and how this is. This, isn't a circus right like this is actually really I mean the guy that fractured the the the foundations of democracy in america, and this is an important. investigation to prevent that from ever happening again- and you ll find out- so I think that was that was really the key in another there into funding you mentioned georgia. You're also expected to testify. In that case, the fulton county dna is is bringing the criminal investigation.

in the subpoenas the whole time you elect, not something you would expected when you started a documentary, although I guess, if you're doing a documentary about the trump family yeah, maybe maybe maybe exactly how you expected. What do you think? What parts of your or your footage do, you think will be important to the grand jury in the georgia investigation. I know I know there was a small part in the documentary that mentioned that you've replayed the call between rapids, burger and and trump, but are there other parts of the footage? Yes, so in the first interview with trump, he talks about georgia a lot and some of it's in the dark and some of it isn't in the dock. But there's there's quite a bit where he is referring to georgia and and try- and I think, was interesting. The phone call actually took place almost exactly a month after the interview. So you can see this wasn't just like a star lemon thing I mean he was really convinced that they need to find recently thousand votes among failure, sleeping pills.

not for a while. It seems like that's the case. That's ok! You know, I think you probably its it seems from the documentary that you set out to do a documentary about the trump family dynamics with the children. You know we ve all come to know trumps. Children, as I caricatures, does the caricatures that we all have the trump children. Are they up in real life. Silly, I mean I think Eric just said. If once I might, is the my take on all this right by Eric just wants us all to stop. I think it just once, but I take on your your, how you portrayed Eric is like you, I d give em a story. He doesn't have much of a story that literally, which is what everyone thinks he's always just like it. He sort of interested in business and now he's in politics that it is desirable that us and my dad's, my best friend and then you ve, got,

one junior who just I I found him so hilarious. I mean dangerous, but was a very larry's I mean yeah, he is political awakening is having gone to back then czechoslovakia to be with his or his grandparents and he was complaining about how he couldn't wear his american flag, no jean jacket, and he was so scared that I could happen in america. So that's why he is now listed as staunch right wing republican to prevent the idea of communism. I mean he's just so ridiculous that that when they say these things, you have to rot dry and not laugh and then obviously, when he talks about how dead the state of journalism is so bad but he wrote a book. I was very proud of sir. I I found the don junior stuff very interesting, somewhat frightening, because I do think he's sort of the biggest political threat in the family in the future. And I hadn't realized the whole backstory? Their type watched the dock, that

avant, has always been the favourite child, trumps, always proud of her, because she's polished and successful and everything he wants the trump brand. b, and he was a little bit embarrassed by don junior, because done junior was what we now think of his trumpeter he's closer to the basic act guns loved shooting was more magda than any other children, and so do I junior then uses that during the campaign to sort of out outmoded, vodka as to try to be the new favorite kid and in is arguably closer to the mega base. There his father or any of the children as it is. Here is how they the abbey, and they all they want. Is that of detention right. I mean clear, yeah and america suffered because of that right I mean that's, basically what it was right. It was a family run business where the three eldest children were all try to outmaneuver each other, and-

yeah and they running the country. For all intents and purposes I mean it's extraordinary and I don't think at best. They just didn't understand what the fuck they were doing I mean that was they did and we'll find out, but yeah it was just it's Incompetence and not understanding how dangerous the rhetoric is when, when you have such a large platform and you, including the children right, they just didn't understand what they were doing or or if they did on the seventh of january, obviously fight Yeah we'll have a particular loathing for Jared kirshner. Here crooked he's got. He's got a new book, fantastic review in the new york times. Every hasn't ready it. Yet what was

take on Jared irene Jared is that it was actually so interesting because he came across a somebody who genuinely believed that he had a right to be in a position that he was in an eye. You found it so fascinating. I mean of all the things that are to come across ass right said to come across as somebody who has the audacity to think that he deserve to be in a position that he was in an I mean the fact, like the only reason he's there is because his wife that won the election I mean there's, no other no other planet. Would you hire Jared cushion for something right so that it could mean that you wanted to succeed? It is that, with that maybe was pretty pretty extraordinary, so yeah I mean, he's very mean. Always they really mean that the nice day I mean, I know he shook my hand and said bangs, but like he was just sort of impressively unimpressive yeah, no, a set of dimples with the

demographic. Was the re election of a new tax? There really get me. I can't Imagine a scenario where Donald trump doesn't run again, even if he is indicted ivy. I think that might make him more. Equally to run again. Can you imagine a scenario where he doesn't run against this? I think he's deafening into announce that he's in IRAN. I just don't think he will end up running Well, you don't know, I mean there's a few reasons. One is that the guy lives on a diet of basically diet, coke and baggers and and he's sort of health has gotten the ball into his eye trump, doesn't normally or ever really in his life. Do the same thing again when he fails. He pivots to something else. So when businesses fell, casinos, essential removed from the outset, I think here it's it's. A similar Situation also, the first time round. He didn't think he was gonna win right and it was all part of his own little game of light, just getting media attention etc, but he won at the idea of being able to maintain that the election was stolen. A second time I don't think even

These things is potentially I had. I think if he believes the lie, then he made himself I believe the lie that he doesn't. He doesn't think he failed in two thousand and twenty, and so then this is revenge sure, but at the same time think that he believes a lie that they know they could do it again right and also trump, doesn't understand why people don't like him unless he does I like them fast right so in his mind, and that's the same with everything. So he doesn't understand why people don't agree with him with respect to the election, so I think yeah. He would potentially nervous that the same thing could happen again. I mean it's totally ludicrous that the guy is just extraordinary the guy. I think we all in some ways assume that he is a rational player and we sort of

in the rang him to that right, like we sort of assume that we can actually serve a scribe strategy, exactly yeah like he really he he's in a different, he he's in a different dimension. I mean he does not exist in this in this reality whatsoever. My last question suggested. You know you spent so much time not only with trump and the family by events with all of these. Tromp fans, voters come away with a better understanding of the appeal of donald trump, too you know how many million americans voted for him at the show. At the end of the day, he's the guy that stands up on the stage and says I'm going to give you everything you want. I mean it's, it's it's the simplest way of getting people. I mean he is the populist right.

The demagogue say: yeah you have x problem, I'm going to fix it for you and that the fact that it's not possible to fix it or he doesn't understand all the issues. Air is irrelevant. Right, like I have a problem, I'm your guy to fix it and people bought into that and he's good. I mean he does when he speaks it's. incoherent right, but actually what he's doing these moving from one aspect to another aspect based on the reactions of the crowd, is very interesting to see so that, if he's talking about same in kansas he'll be doing a rally there and stop mentioned how we move. The israeli embassy from tariff jerusalem and there isn't much of a reaction reed. I'm from that tonight we build the biggest war, have right like there's, no like connection whatsoever, but people by ease

good at knowing what the crowd one and he sort of feeds the crowd, the the rhetoric that they applaud and that support that that's his cocaine, essentially yeah and shamelessness. I guess, is a powerful as a powerful weapon in politics I mean he he he was so brilliant at using the apparatus of the presidency. I mean there were moments actually, and it was essentially howard. Wasn't thought he was actually like yeah kim jung it in the sense of yet we knew they all run. You know after him, and he didn't know when communicating the car they will run. Often there was this. Ah there was this rally we were at and the two presidential cause the beast said: he got these two cars that will basically set the air force, one lands and and the cars basically were like moving really slowly whilst he's walking to the stage on either side- and I mean it was just and and all the secrets,

is around when everything and then the best is that he would time the take off of air force one to the crescendo of nelson dormer. I shit you know what actually at the end of rallies. He would not allow air force one to take off until it reached the crescendo lessened domiciled. Evil at peter the end of a song and in sunday as one like zooms up into the sky. It sets waiting extraordinary, atv guy, these periodically bigger Alex there. Thank you so much the the documentary is unprecedented check it out on discovery plus, I believe, yeah and thanks for thanks for stopping by pod, save america. This is fun. Refund bank, back as the party roger by outer known outer known as offering men's and women's clothing, we're style meet sustainability. Their mission is to provide great

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that is a grossly shopping wagner's and my wife wants some. Equitable protruded day right. So he's broccoli, stew, box, the tunnel problem There's some asparagus. That's bore dollars, carrots, As for more dollars, ten dollars, Then we need some guacamole its borders more. She loves also yourself, so their six dollars The shortage of salsa, guys twenty dollars regrettably, this has included the killer. I mean this outrageous. We got Joe Biden thinkers what eliza you there. We have to tell the story of how this became yeah. This became a stone, as I am here highlights. So what what everyone has to know before you dive into this? Is this video

I knew this week. This video was first released April. Fourth, twenty twenty two. It is now august. I am told I forget, which month eliza work. How did this does come to be yes, so we word in atlanta doing our lifestyle and we have little bit downtime between soundtrack and actually when, on stage night came I'd say it's up to you guys and just you know best in room, and I saw there is a veggie platter there and I said something like I can't see one of these now without thinking about asparagus, and you guys right what the hell are you talking to I couldn't believe it. You added seem the video sites To tell you in love it then you guys sedative and and tommy then Tommy I so much any tweeted ed and that that god, in a bunch of webs on twitter, sorted tweeting at an end, when campaign picked it

and then they raise like half a million dollars this week to solve this awkward crudity video. That was that the bat It became viral tommy lifted it up again on twitter, after eliza couldn't believe we haven't seen it yet, which I hadn't and turns out most of the country hadn't, yet either some here, the story and say kudos to eliza for making this moment happened and, potentially, I think of all the things eliza could have done. If we, if John federalist, fifty second Seat in the senate, where he if voting rights more Why made up like you might have saved the planet? That's one version is Other version of the story is that I have been walking around this on this earth for five months without knowing about this video, And I am thought about it. And here s the thing like how much more do we need to pay it? How much closer do we need to pay attention to politics? It is a sickness. We are honoured to unflagging twitter all the time we talk. as for hours every week. How did we

see this video job. I do a youtube show once every two weeks, phrasing republican videos that is produced by eliza, how have I not say I definitely we ain't. It has another, as you have ever your highness defined the receipts either is other like you know how many more slacked hails. Do we need in the event that maybe that's the problem? We have too many slack generals. There's some like french snack channel were unaware of. that video second my mind, because We were doing research for political experts, react shut out. Our utopia subscribe, saucy, never miss them I feel like. I must insanity, because that's how I care across it. if you can prove it through email,

or slacker texts? I will apologize on next week's pod to you, but up until that you are on probation as far as I'm concerned anyway to the video, the substance of the video. Let's talk about why it has become such a thing in John fetterman has raised half a million dollars, but this video I mean my my initial reaction, just if I'm being honest was like who the hell is dipping their asparagus in salsa or their broccoli and guacamole. That is not egg. That is not a crudity platter and then there's all the there's, calling it crudity vs veggie tray, but aren't for me that, whatever I you know, I've been known to call it crudity myself, once in a while and the the the the collection of shit that he got to put on that plane. and then you thirsty secure in their also also its wegg means is the grocery store, but now it is wagons. Yes, he is merged wagons and revenues to regional grocery stores many area into one called wagons.

Which is not exactly wagner's like never Regular wagner's, yes, and the other part of this is like that. You wasn't cod on tape It was not a caught up. This is not a like. I caught you on video moment. This is we produce this video. He says wagner's he'd key grabs, all this shit and the grocery store. He says it put it in a they put it in a video. They cut the video they edit, the video they have him saying wagner's and they tweeted out they tweet out the video they put it out from the campaign. What a campaign they I wonder what a fantastic set of advisers he's got, but maybe what a world where, as a campaign you get together and you create the most devastating negative add in recent memory, but it turns out it's about certain candidate. It got so bad for doktor oz than he was interviewed. A news max news backs about this

Ruth it's a gas and here's. What happened here is obvious and I mean to fix it out, but I just for those watching in pennsylvania. You know our particular many people are about their groceries. What happened with wegg men's and wagner's? Can you explain that to them? I was austin! When you campaigning eighteen hours a day you I've got my kids names wrong is well. I don't think that's dr someone's ability to lead the commonwealth, I mean- can be invoked slaughter rule here? What what how bad is gonna get around europe you're getting grilled news max about here. The grocery store video that your campaign put out near like some say, forget my kids mic any each. really like he seems like he has never been in a grocery store before, like he's again,

we and for other planet you all they learned about human civilization was from watching. Bravo like this big big, stick is about its. I love it. a survey of dogs on austrian hand, people are gonna, lose the people can have a great time. Looking back on listening to this episode of movement offered tweets and but then at that point like I guess, politics has come he broke into nothing, nothing matters any more like a chance. He still win this race. Absolutely, of course and we have to say that just so that we can put this version of the clip out after everyone dunks on what happened in the previous five minutes of horror. Of course he can, when he can, will he who knows? but is he running? Is he running one of the worst campaigns I have seen in all my years in politics? Absolutely yes, yes, he is definitely running a terrible campaign. He is a weird weird man.

it's very possible, his campaign hates em, but there may be moles there may be more as a mac camp in, but he got in a twitter fight Last night wednesday night with John fetterman over, over how many homes he owns answer. said that he owns ten homes and and doctors on twitter. Any goes. None at all. Two homes, ten properties and so I did some recent leader that what you don't have you tweeted it you get that you put it in a tweet you hit between and it went out nobody not even property. He probably didn't tweet that that was not doktor eyes, because this Jose designed attempt to punch back because he, like quote tweeted federal man. He also its experiment for living with his parents, for while being if you're not in out of no, you know you're, somehow a failure which is not a particular good message in any. If have ever been living with his parents, while he was mayor of a small town, maintain having a like a very low salary, so his parents helped him that he was in public service yeah. That was what he would do.

It's so like that, like that tweet was unsure. Site written by signed off on by a wide array of people who probably make a lot of money is political consultants and social media types they think it's all of its islands like nine properties like is he like an investor in like some, shopping malls somewhere now he owns ten homes He does only lives into of them in it. The urban question of one of the two is referring to is actually the apartment in pennsylvania in the town, whose name, forgetting, as he's never really been there Elijah. Could you do the favor and if we ever film, a video like that could do in the video team in the social media team does not

I put it out. Oh god will accept, we will live, will say the file got corrupted, we're not doing this. If we let that guy get out. I think that Dan's right. I think that there are people on his campaign that might actually hate him. That's true there. It could have been infiltrated by some Democrats. Maybe it's like a reverse project, veritas kind of thing, anyway. You're all enjoy that. That was fun. There is one big, your leisure you know, helping the federal campaign and potentially save in the country. tommy for treating it thanks, Alex holder for joining the pod today for talking about his documentary, everyone go check it out. Isolated and everyone have a great weaken, enjoy your pretty today and we will allow a fuckin if we by everyone pod? Save America is a crooked media production. The executive producer is go martinez. Our senior producer is Andy gardener, Bernstein,

our producers are livia Martinez, inhaling use its mixed and edited by andrew chadwick, I'll segment. In charlotte, land is sound engineer. The show, thanks to two, he's. So many maneater sandy gerard halley, keefer, irish schwartz, anti taft and justine how for production support into our digital team, Elijah cone, Phoebe, bradford, Milo, Kim and Amelia onto our episodes, are uploaded as videos at you to death. Come such crooked meeting.