The present sponsor pod save America is the procurator. It is it's almost time a year again folks, what time July? Fourth, now, also known as independence day. It's coming and our friends it difficult or thought would be the perfect time to remind you that if you ever leading revolution to establish a breakaway colonial confederation or just launching your own business, and you need to step up fast, make sure you use. The kind of technology to find the right candidates for your jobs, a kind of technology behinds hypocrite. Well, how about that? How about it? Unlike other job sites, if recruiters, powerful, matching technology skins, millions of residues in its network to find people with the skills and experience you looking or an actively invite them to apply? And, unlike the colonial revolution, you don't have to be a white land owning mail to participate. So whether somebody to Reiner underground printing presses, throaty off a boat or copy edit. Your declaration monsieur use hypocrite her final,

people in right. Now you can try their revolutionary simple hiring technology for free deprecated outcome, such cricket, so go to The procurator com such crooked today an exercise your right to hire efficiently, and we are only that is in the bill of rights. Just what you guys know. We exercise their right to cut some weird shit that I said Durham is that right we exercise frequently that's four hundred outcome, slash crooked I welcome, the POD save America. John fabric, Dan Pfeiffer and I'm John love it wild

the pod. We have our fourth of July Mailbag episode where we're going to answer some of the most burning questions about all the topics of the day and later in the show stick around, we will have a an exclusive clip from my brand new podcast about the Democratic Party which is coming on a couple weeks. Will talk about that too, but first were entitled the news a little about with our friend John love it because we will also be hearing this unloved or leave. This is a very special love it or leave it. Pod, save America, news, topper, crossover event. So thinking about what to target the news is pretty much been the same for two weeks, but there are few big picture seen setting stories this week, but the Democratic Party that I thought we could dig into a little bit so both them ran over the weekend. The New York Times headline is as Trump consolidates power. Democratic. Front a rebellion in their ranks scary,

The Washington Post line is a bad weak for Democrats gives rise to a big problem. Outrage could become an obstacle in mid terms so the lead of the Washington Post, one is in the washing opposes Michael Share, and the near times was Jonathan Martin Alex Burns, so the leader, the washing upholstery, growing liberal agitation over a pivotal Supreme Court retirement and a simmering crisis about immigrant child separation have left democratic leaders scrambling to keep the political outrage. They counted unto few minutes Election winds from becoming a liability for the party. Now a few things conflated in these stories. There's questions about ideology, these questions about strategy and tactics in this questions about tone and message. Let's start with ideology, are either of you concerns the Democratic Party is moving too far to the left on any issues Dan will start with you. Now, I'm not love it. No, I answer to you is now dead.

Didn't you elaborating the love, you collaborate, the premises, these stories there there of us there are genre stories have existed for as long as Democrats have either been in power out of power, and they are called then, in disarray stories, which means we are panicking, things are all screwed up and and since they are because we control nothing. So know what they're worried about us blowing bide. We can romantic ideology, wise. I think two things one we have good candidates running, racist, specific to their districts and states in it different, whether it is Alexandria costs Cortez or someone running here in cash, when your ten or better or work in Texas. What more than the wine that runs through the very best campaigns and invest. Canada is not an ideology, it is been authenticity. People are running authentic, impassioned, races that they, the people, can feel added, if doesn't feel like politics. As usual,

second this. I think that both of these stories in not as we would all the different categories, Europe were tickly ideology are using a outdated way of thinking about politics. You Donald Trump ran a Harley Anti ideological campaign two when he was both conservative and liberal. He was a populist. He was a corporatist all the things and to try to treat this like. It is the nineteen ninety two healthcare battle understand politics in this day and age. I think you're right on the ideology thing like this idea. That is so ingrained in its not just put a train reporting. I think there are people within the Democratic Party strategists pollsters ex politicians, current politicians who also have the same concerns they think about this, like imaginary midwestern voter in this midwestern voter, when he or she is with her the term Medicare for all or federal jobs, guarantee or debt free college or some delay that suddenly they think

That is way too far to the left on spectrum. For me, and I'm not that far left on the spectrum- and I dont think that comports with any reality that we ve seen in the last couple of elections for in specially like use it in into Donald Trump. As president, these are ideas that pole well right. These are ideas that have broad based appeal. Medicare for all has broad based appeal: Universal College, Universal Pre, Kay the so called radical liberal ideas that are that are pulling the party too far left. These are simple, elegant political. So, oceans that people can understand and rally behind, and the idea that there's somebody would vote Democrat, but then think so. That's too much prick

assume any kids can break out. For me, one of the silver linings from from Donald Trump winning is that it should liberate us from worrying about both elect ability and how each policy position is going to play in various districts. If you dont like Medicare for all, because you think as a policy, it may not work Well, if you think, a certain policy costs too much money and you'd rather spend that money on something else. All these. That's fine on a substantive level of your Kennedy running and you don't agree with one puts either totally get that do not let yourself get stuck in the trap of worrying about whether a policy is going to pull specifically one one place either, partly because you can message these policies almost any way. You want. Voters make choices based on values based on big goals, based on

oh comes, and the ins and outs of the specific policy like we can worry about that once were actually in power govern. We ve talked a lot about the fact that, oh you know, people trio parsing data within losing the big picture and, being too specific, the same happens on policy. There is the same kind of pulling parsing on what policy appeals? The who and and whether or not you talk about something in this district forces that district and the eye, if you're looking at politics and twenty eighteen and thinking oh, this is a surgical operation. This is gonna, be about very specific tweaks like we do. Sledgehammer is not scalpels. Right. You need me to break through and you need to not worry about what the attack is gonna be from Donald Trump or what the attack is gonna, be from your opponent, because the idea that there is a system for analyzing in breaking down your policy views in a sophisticated way and then presenting that analysis to voters is just not real, it's not real

There is no that policy conversation. Maybe it used to happen in DC, it barely happens there anymore. You'd have something you can say that his big, that you can stand behind, that can make sense to people and need to be able to weather the incredible assault of nonsense to make it in front of somebody's facebook, feed and parsing, whether not you for a public option, verses Medicare for all. I think it's just a waste of time. I think that's why I say one more thing on this, which is the worst elements of bad democratic consultant and political thinking. As always, when you try to build your message and policy in anticipation of what the republican attack is going to be, and that is exactly what type of Medicare for all cuz here you have essential. You have Medicare at one of them. Has Papa given forgotten history, be expanded to everyone which is popular, but we don't want to talk about it because we, we fear how it can be demagogues by the Republicans and then that's when we'll lose

and there are two problems of that one. This is a terrible way of thinking that work on it. Answer what we say, because we think Republicans predominantly tweet about it. But it's also deeply naive about How- what a mess of things in the Donald Trump error, because we no matter what the Democrats position abolish ice or immigration reform. Donald Trump will say that you were sided with the animals of Emma thirteen years and freedom to be for what you want it before. Like we are. We should be liberated in this area to say what we believe in which will be better off than because this matter we do down on tropical. We give accuse us of the worst thing humanly the demagogic is here, it's been happening for awhile haven't gotten crazy. The idea that, like like Camel Harris, are accused and gentle rent didn't come out for abolishing ice at some point, because that's where the basis pushing them that Donald Trump would be like. I was gonna unleash a series of completely dishonest attacks on these people for siding with.

ISIS, but now they ve moderated slightly on this position. I'm standing down Donald Trump is standing down its agenda. Trump, the revolt republican parties but been like that, and they ve been like that before Trump they they babe, went crazy. In the Obama, everybody little bit before we spent weeks hearing from Republicans on the hill, saying things like? Why agree that children should be hostages? I never wanted children to be. Hostages are ponds in this game of politics, but then they were immediately quite comfortable saying seems to me like the Democrats or offer open borders and we're border security so that they want the demagoguery just want to do it in a more sophisticated deasey fashion. Right, and I think the other thing to keep in mind is the reason that this moment requires bolder policy solutions. It's not just trumpet. Republicans are in charge now and they ve gone crazy, and so we can say whatever you want or also dealing with raw inequality, stagnant wages. Now more people are losing their healthcare since Trump became president like there's an

economic transformation that has been happening in this country over the last couple decades that you know. In the in the eight years, the Obama distraction, Obama pulled us out of crisis. Pull us out of a near depression brought us back to her before, but as he acknowledged tube of where we were before the great recession wasn't good enough, and it is only gotten worse since then, and at some point we have to think

to ourselves. What are the policy solutions that will meet the magnitude of the economic challenge that most people in this country are facing? Every single day broke Obama came in and in a period of incredible turmoil, and he was part of a democratic primary that actually moved the party to the left but landed at a place of the affordable care act as a compromise market based solution with up with expansion of medicate, etc, etc. Answer digging out from this incredible crises from incredible crisis, and even in that moment, even when he was seen by some in the left, is being too pragmatic. What are the Republicans you didn't didn't? Come help, Democrats being pragmatic and seeking a compromise? We did they Don T since we get it on the debt ceiling. We did it on healthcare spent six months, dancing with Chuck rashly what happened? Was we passed a bunch of incredibly important legislation that try to solve some pretty big problems and do so in a way that require compromise and hard politics, hard choices Zaragoza? I was not going to address this issue as an essay decision points. Actually I was

refer to them as decision points. But what are the Republicans? Do they turn those things into socialism and it spent the last two and a half years trying to undo every single one of them? So if we're going to try to they solve problems. We need to go big and push this country towards bigger answers to these hard questions, because, no matter what we do, there is a right wing that will undue anything or how moderated no matter how practical, once you start screaming about a death panels about a plan that was modeled after Mitt Romney Healthcare, yes, juice, it's sort of gone over the ledge that we start on the heritage under, so let but let's go the second thing is that over the grass roots leadership divide, we saw Joe Crowley defeated ok. This is someone who obviously Alexandria, because your Cortez is further the less than Crowley, but Crawley one of the more progressive members of Congress, one of the first members of Congress to embrace Medicare for all his defeat it. We are Democrats Critter

this policy and for not fighting hard enough. There is now an expectation among some in the grass roots that we can block trumps Supreme Court pick when you know we have forty nine votes, so it is something slightly different than ideology here that is driving through too vague grass roots verses. Why can't these Democrats in Washington fight harder then, what? What do you think's going on there like everything else in these matters? These two articles with the General Harris, as we ve conflated a thousand things together right there our differences between the approach of Democrats in Washington and sort of the immigrants rights groups, whether swing left, indivisible, moms demands in every else who's out there, and that is usually more in the Senate and the house, and that is usually around Chuck Shimmer trying to manage the politics of a bunch of members running and states that trump one I think that that is very tough challenge for checks, humor and

he's, he doesn't actually control, which I mentioned does that he could tell Joe Mansion don't vote vote against whoever trumpets upstream courting Germanic, its I'm going to address, can vote for mean less average emissions shot Brocklehurst climate change bill with a gun in a television at so he's, not gonna, be our friend on offering it. That is different. The joke rallies defeat. Those are just two different things: they are probably tangentially related, but they are different. I've seen this before us all this in two thousand and four after urge into that. In the early years of the Bush era, when move on, and all these other anti Iraq war sprang up, and I do think that it too the credit of some in the democratic establishment. They are being much more welcoming of swing laughed and indivisible in these groups, then as private, we happen like. There seems to be less of a territorial ism and a condescension from Washington. For maybe there may be some of its collapsing in its more malicious intent appears. But this

today, everyone seems to want to share the state. My basic view is We should get out of the way and let these grassroots groups we'd, because I don't know of any one in Washington or ourselves included who they sterling record that you doesn't sixteen election. That suggests that we have all the right answers for this, and so we should be aligning ourselves with the groups who are mostly most closely tied to the grass roots. Enthusiasm is fuelling, are the actual victors we had of last year's. Didn't I heard a couple people cycle. We want twitter, so if only Obama had fought harder for merit, garland back when he now made merry garland. We might not be in this mess right now, who we just go back like was

anything else. The Brok Obama or the Senate Democrats could have done to put merit garland on the bench back in fifteen. Sixteen, whenever was from my perspective, now mature how control the power, if there's nothing Brok, Obama, Harry Red, who is the leader of the time, could do to make miss your account put the nomination of Morocco on the floor. That is a power that solely he had and as long as our public and suck the other, nothing can down a no. No number of speeches could have for to do it Brok lava, could have gone to his house and made a compelling case and got Mitchell. How not to do it, because, Mr Connell, operates entirely on cold, calculating political incentives and he had a very strong political incentive to not do this, and I think there is the critique that I think we give in to the entire party. Is we? Maybe we did not

We do not do a good enough job of telling people what was at stake need limits so much so girl, as I can get the position, while Brok alarmist President, so now there's a springboard seat at stake in the election I think, as has been true for a long time, the Democrats in questions around judges and Supreme Court. We haven't convince people why this is so goddamn important and now we are paying for that in the most painful ways possible because it did work for Republicans. I did a it like a panel before the election with as he cop who Cnet com who's never temper and I've a we, then a bunch of panels together usually was mostly people who didn't love trump, and we base tat shouted out of the room, because no matter how much you didn't like tromp, these Republicans wanted the spring corset like that. That became the permission structure to support him again, Everything else is inexperience. His racism is bizarre

Jenny everything else was we get the Supreme Court's eight and frankly, abortion was at stake and weak that there is nothing to say that we could not have made that argument better on our side. It would have got there a girl in the seat in that time Harry, but it would have maybe help explain to people why the citizen when potent you know, we don't know what it would look like. If Mitch Mcconnell was holding up a Supreme Court seat and Hillary Clinton opponent was Margo Rubio and he was up in the polls by four points we don't know how we would be feeling during that time. If, if the idea from pointing wasn't seen as more remote than it actually was. I dont believe, barring basically turning his presidency into a campaign for that Supreme Court Justice seat right, having like basically turn it into the biggest him.

Important issues facing to put pressure on other Republicans, and I don't even know if that would have worked. Who knows, but I do think one of the reasons I think people are bring it up is because I think we all look back on the period of time and garlands not getting seated or the idea of trumpets making the appointment that that Mitch, Mcconnell stall went from being kind of hypothetical. We couldn't deal with emotionally to an irreversible reality that nice on election day, we weren't, because we thought Hillary Clinton is gonna win. What Mitch Mcconnell was doing was despicable, but we weren't honest with ourselves about the risks, because we were an honest with ourselves about the risk of damage from becoming president met carried over into a whole bunch of different issues right. But I do think, like

sometimes people acquire Democrats not having power with Democrats, not fighting hard enough, we just have to remember that as we go forward in the Supreme Court fight any looked this. This is what happened during the whole shut down over the dreamers. You know- and we did this on this point as we pushed all the Democrats to say that they will not. You know: they're, not gonna, fund, deportations of dreamers and we're gonna. You know they're looking for a compromise here and Ale did. And then they folded after twenty four forty eight hours. But what a day of courage and why you could even even if they had held tied for a week two weeks I think they should have, but also, I couldn't say for sure, where the Republican in Donald Trump ever would have back down from that and said. Ok sure we will love will do what you want to do. We got our answer when he started selling children from turned down. Twenty million for the wall refused to help the dreamers and then decided to separate families at the boy

I think we knew what damage are we going to do all along as part of this is expectations management. This is I'm sure and policy right, which is they let people believe, and we let people who say frankly that you we can win that fight when that was highly unlikely and It just everyone, everyone listening this nose s, but many of your friends may not wishes. If every Democrat votes against this, court nominee nominated republican votes for it, they will get the seat, and so there is, like There's two things: one there's let people know did the fight is, can be really hard and we may lose. But then there is also in this case. This goes a Senate Democrats understanding the importance of having the fight, even if you lose right is fighting and losing is better than not fighting at all. I think that is very important, because that is the that is the the ultimate question that I think so,

forty for shimmer Pelosi, the entire dynamic ip address they have to demonstrate to the people who are wit, who marched in the women's March March for our lives, whose stormed airports go to those people that they are party in. These leaders are worthy vessel for that enthusiasm and that is good, require having tough fights, even if we lose them without doing this calculation of her probably going to lose her we're going to save our powder for another day is. I think it is a huge strategic ere. The powder is unlimited, and also boat, but then I actually is more than that. I dont think these fights are just about signalling to the base signalling to the activists that were willing to fight. I think you have the fight, because the fight the argument leaves a mark and it leaves a mark on the issues we care about. If we make the Supreme Court Battle, one that has covered

as if there is an actual chance, maybe a small chance, but a chance that we can make Stop one nominee or maybe steer stop him heinous nominees cause it to be controversial, cause it to be a negative Europe against. That will be valuable in the fall that remind people that we just at this big argument over criminalizing abortion over preexisting additions, so It has value even too to the people that are not hard core Democrats, poorer gonna start tuning in the fall anyway Party, America's brought by blue apron. Its brought you by blue apron skip the male planning it get straight to the cooking, with low apron enjoy delicious meals, their grid and the girl iconic polyglot chicken with Pablo and lime rights at smoky depth. Here while enjoying the warm weather getting those perfect Karl Marx within

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Better. This is the power John leaves description. We measured out of ILO endorsement. That's what it's us, God! You did so they're gonna blueprint a better way to cook Party America's broadly by movement. I was wondering what he got: Forest Movement summaries upon Can I saw sunglass factory in movement is dropping all new sunglasses to get you ready for the long days it has opened up the sun. Are there any specific events that you want to look good in shades for John, I so that the sun, maybe you'll, wear them during the fireworks he's out of them, and you don't complain about the sun comes up over Santa Monica way. That's not that's! On Euro Kroger! What I want to think of the sun was setting that's also, I believe, a shovel conflicts of like mine. Some of the sun and every day as a winding road. That's where their similar or we sang Tommy.

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The day. I get them polarized, they started seventy dollars and we do not need an other days during these are seriously our go to sheds their high quality premium. S state frames nurture plastic. You gotta see these. If lots cells choose from classic trendy rat aviator mirrored polarized for him and for her you sure, to find the perfect pair get fifteen percent off today with free shipping free returns by going to the emptied outcomes live crooked. You no movement for how they revolutionise the wash industry. Nine revolutionaries over here now is the time to check their sunglass. You could I'm sick of the sun and tell everyone to lighten up, because it we got. No one to blame. You're looking up, you're gonna, so got the sun. They Cheryl go to envy emptied out at home, such crooked, enjoying the movement So if I were tone and message, I think all three of us were very much agree that the entire civility debate is of scene, but how? How about this

too much outrage too much anger, yeah pundits need to decide how hot they want democratic voters to big right. That's the Goldilocks thing like up they're, getting a little too angry. That's gonna, alienated group, people in the MID west I've never met they're, not angry enough. They're not gonna, get the votes they need in the parts of New York. I've never been to. What would you you want a passionate, but not too passionate angry, but not too angry ready to vote, but not crazy. We want what do you want? What do you want? A democratic Bayswater be like how loud this loud but of a quieter. The thing is fucking out these things are happening all across the country. We should be outraged, Yad. This idea that some funded Washington knows what the exact right temperature that they voted, because what their politicians too is ass, an eye they ve, never known the answer. They certainly don't know it now. People, outraged

angry because others not enough democracy in our democracy. For the other outrage, because people, civil rights and civil liberties are being trampled and were country that says that we believe in civil rights and civil liberties, like that's what people are outraged about, but I also think there is a third. This is another conflation here to their complaining. How activists and people on the ground penalties marches feel with what politicians how politicians should comport themselves and Think if you are an activist, if your organizer, if you're someone who's just paying attention to the policy for the first time, in your angry in Europe, certain FUCK go, be angry and upset because you deserve to be because of what happened here but like please vote you channel that anger and productive way, which is registering people to vote and going to mergers knocking on doors. Make phone calls do that? Don't just be angry scream into the twitter sphere, but his first politicians, geysers candidates were running. I haven't really seen

I'm angry fire breathing democratic candidate who makes their whole camp. Hey his or her whole campaign about being angry. Like we talked about this before Alexandria, Cassio Cortez, she definitely had passion and she was angry on behalf of the people that she I will go on to represent, but she Didn'T- and she said to Herself- she didn't spend most of her campaign tongue about tromp. If such a funny egos actually do. This thing about like this red hen. Restaurant is playing rated a trumps hands there, not in politics there just a group of people with a restaurant. It's like these articles like Democratic voters may be presenting a problem with democratic voters in the fall, but what what are you talking about while these are just these? Are people religious people in the world? Some guy showed up to a fucking immigration protest with a gun, pulled a gun on the protesters. Yelled want wasp

because he decided to parent Corey, Fuckin Lewandowski and our country can't like hell you, because it out to get thou, that's a slogan of white nationalism, but ought I want you didn't hear bunch upon it saying? Oh Republicans, have to watch themselves because that guy, who pulled a gun on the protesters represents the Republican Party, and why would he why, with their that, guy, give the Democrats such a gift? By pulling You know anything about that. So why not? What do you guys think that is so? What is the It is the underlying assumptions that lead give these pundits in D C or on the side of the Democrats, but they can't say that because they must be unbiased at all times and it must be on at all times, and so they spend most their time. Doing is saying, be better Denmark, be its act like acts civilly act. How I think you should act I am a pundit in Washington, and here too I want you to be in your my area, serious things and I believe in very serious

ways of acting in being in and suffer its like a resident of these articles or, like they closed the door, and now it's just family. Let's talk amongst ourselves. Look at those crazy people across the street. You gonna be like them. We're not like them right were better than that. Let's keep it. Let's keep a close, but of course it on the internet its also just we need a new narrative right for life. Weeks. It was the country you know everything's falling apart for tromp, because for the first time ever is facing political accountability for his child separation policy week. We stuck to the same story for two weeks. So what's the new story? Democrats in disarray and, like you, these stories also swerve out of their way to make this point like I read this Washington Post article that we mentioned here and the main person quote in it. It is a check. Shimmer, isn't Nancy policy is at an upstart Democrat like better work or stay

Abrams. Now it's Michael fucking more. I know me like what you from a appearance on the bill. Marcia like there is nothing more disconnecting there. What is actually gonna matter to voters active as politicians than what Michael more sensible Mart were looking relay. It is a narrative in search of a story it is. I know it is foolish. It's funny. We spend ten minutes talking about it. Well, everyone out. The here should not read these stories. River them already ignore them and get back to find work because it doesn't matter what abundant says about about. Whether your attitude to your outrage or your policy is going is therefore, is going to affect the election there. Predictions are pointless. Are many, listen, they usually wrong. We actually control what happens here by turning out to vote, because our more of us than them so like it's like it's actually pretty simple on the rest of this- is just filling space until the votes actually start getting cast

that is what they do and we look to the New York Times today. That was better because in your times very basically included like in this might actually help Democrats when the war the washing pussy was completely absurd, The mega more thing I was just like, but this this is what this of course, the whole problem. This is what happens is a small incident and isolated incident happens like the redhead thing, or you know my Morton and people pick it up and that comes the narrative in DC also with their racing. They called for peaceful protest. He heard her peaceful protest as a fucking radical anyway, so I think we're fine ever feel good

I've, our outrage. It is like it. So legislate the sequence of events. Just the people understand is a person who won for your votes became president appointed a stolen Supreme Court, see they use that scheme court seat to steal a bunch, more power for their constituencies of corporations and the wretch. Then the president started separating children from families to send a clear message to people seeking a better life against terrible, terrible lots. Demo Let's have responded by being outraged, passionate and protesting, and the question is: will this seems like a good week for Donald Trump specific? What forms buzz weeks as well as

IP headline, etc, but not a royal flush from President Trump cards. You as one more question. Mothers do think any piece of this kind of story about the Democrats or to our rate of the Democrats are being to pull too far in a radical direction. Do think. There's some part of it that stems from an a belief on the part of some. Reporters are quite believe that there is still the silent majority that there is still this group of people who will be alienated by this kind of thing. I mean if that could be possible with reporters. I dont tend to think of a sound majority. Is this the silent majority that boot secretly love Donald Trump he's gonna come out to vote for him? I am always mindful of the fact that there is that most of the country does not pay attention to politics as closely as all of us and most people who listen to this part cast, but a good chunk of that country still votes, and they are people who don't pay too is close attention to the news they don't consume. Politics like we do, and

I always think to myself when they turn on the news and finally pay attention closer the election. What are they gonna see from democratic candidates, verses republican candidates, and I do think that impression that we have on people who who are no is aware, as we are of all the crazy shit- that's gone. They know that badly. Happening may know the traumas presently puppy, don't like Donald Trump, but their thinking themselves? Ok, I don't like Donald Trump he's. Pretty fuckin crazy he's got the tweets everything's got. This country seems like it's going to Helen ahead good there's like a lot of shit going on, but I know what are the Democrats up to? What are they going to do and I hope what they see as a job tumor in front of a ghastly. No, I hope when they see are candidates were offering big, bold solutions to the problems.

Face in their lives and telling them. I am going to fight like hell for you and try to make this country low, but better like that's what I hope they see, how they don't see all of these little controversy. So I think, to the extent that we have to disappoint ourselves to make sure that that message gets out I think, a cause. Your quarters did successfully, which I think Conor landed successfully. People across the spectrum have done that success we so far, which is why I am hopeful about November. At the moment like it's, it's also actually literally important too, because even if Even if you are a Democrat who thinks that a abolishing ices, bad idea, because you're a centrist and you think it's add politically because you're a centrist it still a better idea to just say what you think. Then it is to spend your days trying to police the words of other Democrats. Yes, that is true enough alike

if you have an opportunity to go on background or go on record with a reporter who's asking you about Dems in disarray stories just dumb or just at least talk about the issues that you believe in talk about your policy positions totally thing don't start stop being abundant. Leave that we fifty the pros like us stand, you think the background brigades are going to hear and he Johns message today that we will finally crush the spirits of the a name strategy, the unnamed strategists roiling download? I also wanted to speak anonymously, so we could speak freely about Inter Party. So it's gonna make me think, there's an idle porters walking around Washington DC all summer with so much time on their hands, because there's been no one, calling them to talk about what the democratic parties fucked up will quote on background for food. That's what they're signs of that, but I think the last thing I'll say on this before I let you go is released. Let you subway us into? The next section is what

this boils down to- is a common belief among reporters pundits politicians, consultants that caution is a better path and courage. In campaigns- and there is basically zero history of that being true. Ok, when we come back, then I will take your question. Pod save America's brought by sweet number. Perhaps you have considered asleep number bed but thought I just can't afford one. But can you really afford another restless night's sleep now Now there you go so before you do anything. You ve gotta, go to sleep number store to experience, adjustable comfort for a limited time. Only queen mattresses started only five hundred ninety nine dollars. The sled number bed lets you would just your mattress firmness or softness on each side whenever you like it's the perfect bed,

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this is from Corey. What can Democrats and everyone who is pro choice, start doing at state level to change abortion laws or continue to protect reproductive rights? Just in case those battles are lost in the Supreme Court with a new justice. That is a great fucking question, Corey step one. If you have a republican governor republican Legislature, elect Democrats step to you, have a democratic governance and democratic legislature, and they have not passed laws that enshrine we women's reproductive freedom pressure them to do so, a sap, but this ultimate comes down to winning as many as many seats at state level and governs mentions, as is humanly possible. I don't think there's ever been, but time when electing

regrets on a state level on a local level, social state, legislatures and governor ships has been more important than it is right now and look. We learn this lesson the hard way in two thousand and ten when Democrats got wiped out, not just in Congress, but we lost a lotta stay have seats and what happened then was, of course you know redistricting in the census happen and twenty eleven and because Republicans had huge majority these in Congress. They got to redraw the lines and- and you know now- we have a way to many republican governor ships. So now: we're gonna have another redistricting year, another census year. Twenty twenty one, we have a Supreme Court We have a conservative majority can undermine rights and turned back laws and progress in all kinds of states so to have a democratic bulwark in the states against what's happening at the federal

Well I mean I psychical Republicans be like oh, it's interesting the Democrats who suddenly found a new love for federalism. Yet that's fair. I do we. Have to do and we haven't for a long time. We have to pay attention to not just Congress, not just looking Congress but to every single seat. That is up especially it's in states right now and has allowed us. I mean we ve talked about the Senate. Map is pretty hard for us, but the map for the governors races is actually pretty ripe for Democrats to pick up a lot, a governess thrice nets- great even it is there a lot of seats at the lot of seats, ants states there were either very close in the two thousand. Sixteen election restates the Democrats wants. The opportunities are there: we just have to actually devote resources, energy and focused hurt.

This is from. Nicky on Facebook is a tough one. Then how do you feel about Democrats running on the message of increasing the court size if they re gain power? In twenty twenty people, like in Samuel, think pact courts should be on the same level as abolish ice. I sank, how he's been devious ever say, don't run on packing, the court's run on something else win and then back the courts, the technocrats using a butterfly. That's what they're of elegance would do Look at all. I I think we need to take some pretty drastic steps, as Democrats too. Try to find a better balance between the majority

Like we have a majority of voters, we have our positions, have majority appeal, yet the structures of power massively disadvantage asked whether it's the make up of the Senate, whether it is redistricting in anything else, and so we need to take some drastic steps. I have said this before I was. I will say it again if I, if the Democrats stumble into control the house in it, presidency it? My in the in the near term or even in my lifetime? The first thing I would do as I would give statehood to DC, and the second thing I would do for them if the people. Eureka so desired to become as a state which there is that there have been different. Doesn't they that's. That should be their call, not ours, that if they were to such issues that our Eu Porter Aesthetic and I can promise you one fuckin thing- was those just take it easy for a second, if one,

Kennedy See was a knight voted for Donald Trump like ninety two ten or whatever the numbers warranty say, but is the most them when the most democratic rights in their country? If it was that Republican, would doubt Mr Connell Donald Trump and Paul Ryan, but he made his stay last week and were taken us who says it's. So I think that is one thing we can do. That would help restore balance. I am I dont know I think that, as it may be a race to the bottom of reducing to end up with a thousand Supreme Court justices, because every time someone gets of governors add more until they get the majority at another. That's the best thing in the long run for good It's in this country yeah, I'm not worried about it, because I'm worried about like protecting norms and institutions, though I do think institutions, norms are important, but a more like we should think about it. You think hard about steps where, if republicans are in power again- and they do the same,

thing: it could hurt us in a big way like tomorrow. What will we do if Donald Trump said? Oh, I have a republican House and Republicans I'm gonna passable right now to give me the power to add two or three more Supreme Court justices and I'm gonna nominate a bunch of people were in their forties, Debbie, pretty fuckin scary. I think I think absolutely need revenge for marriage. Garland see they stole a Supreme courts, the relevant stole a Supreme courts it and we should not rest until we get it back. What he would have an end should be. I mean I think, first of all, Democrats retake the Senate. And like you, no doubt from May or may not get this nominee through. If Democrats retake the Senate Ruth Paine Ginsburg. Eighty five,

Stephen Briars, eighty eighty one and then Clarence Thomas, is the next all this at seventy one. Seventy two: I think that he gets no more supreme Court justices, no matter if all three of them retire until or as illicit with worn told us when we asked this question at least and forced him to actually put up a moderate Supreme Court justice, but otherwise, if he puts up another Gore such he puts up three more gorges, then the democratic, absolutely safe. Were keeping the seed open. We are keeping the seed open until the presidential election in toys and I may be totally justified in doing that. I might go. I might go myself further. I might also say no, no appeals. Court. Judges, oh yeah! I think that's, that's pretty fair. Do I mean Mitch? Mcconnell has been so areas for America, Ireland, on than yeah. I think, that's totally fair, but I do think and hacking according to Obama's last year's right, that's right

but I do think you're like packing. The court served. It does start this arms race were suddenly the judiciary stops becoming a check on the legislative brands, branch and the executive branch. And now the judiciary is just whoever's, empower adds more justices, so they can get their way and it just goes I can forth between Democrats and Republicans and by the way I dont know that I necessarily she'll this about getting rid of the filibuster. If Democrats take back the Senate and take the presidency, because that's a situation where the make up of the Senate the fact that the Senate, again

two to senators to the state of Wyoming and two senators, the state of California, in the way that the demographic coalitions in his country have shaken out and geographical distribution of voters in his country had shaken out. Democrats are much more, have a much bigger advantage of a fifty one vote majority then Republicans will have of a fifty one. Wrote majority in I'm saying, like Republicans, are always going to have an advantage in the? U S Senate, because the way the population is distributed in this country right now they always well so for Democrats, the only way to even the field, even the playing field in the Senate is going to be ultimately to get rid of the filibuster. So there's no sixty vote margin. I do think the Democrats think about doing. I agree ass, a thank just pack S, nurse thorough. Why two million, if you out there they are adequately and if ten percent of you move too I mean we have to Martin

There's fibres of european consumer centres like housing prices are dependent on the coast given to give this day the planet. These days we Skype wrote in charge because maybe smaller fear so into it, move to ways, oh population republican state registers, a Democrat, run, robs of you on and we'll get more sentences. Just a fat, but you know it's easier than moving a whole bunch of people to my home in the next General Democratic sent a letter to saying by filibuster, as you Bob. And all that yet no out on both is greater. Yet ok, let's I'll take the both options are from Cayley on twitter, and this is sort of a good said way. If there's a democratic trifecta come twenty twenty one. What is the new thing?

like to see them. Try to do election reform, codifying norms into laws paid family leave we'd Israel carries different options. What do you think day? What's what first on the agenda stay had forty say to set its its annex? The second right thing to do is people DC deserved ever presentation because they cut the government has been fucking with them for a long time. So that's one too! I think I made the list is so long like we should do all the things I would probably have occupant this. Basically, as is the question of you, could do one thing with that power? What would happen Let's go there in over the exercise of that was a question, but ethical wanted. It any. I would do I. I would do matter here for you I know maybe we're just you know. We were glens for punishing we went through a efforts before, but I just a diamond

u, I care a lot about healthcare, and I think it is. I mean, there's a good argument to be made that it is one of the biggest costs that families face, that it is one of the biggest cause of this entire country faces that you know as much as Obamacare did to ensure twenty million but you didn't have health insurance before, partly because of republican sabotage, it did not do enough to bring down the cost of healthcare. A public option would have helped do that and I think if we do not figure out how to bring down the cost of healthcare in this country, we are not just going to have healthcare problems when a major major economic problems. And so I do think that's a good one. I also think like any kind of shoring up- and I know that states have a lot of power in this area too, but anything we

do in the federal level to shore up voting rights, because that's the kind of thing that's the kind of measure that next time Democrats are in power. If we can sort of codified alot of voting rights legislation and voting rights protections into law, then we're gonna be in better shape than where in right. Now we're really republican sort of turning back voting rights. You know in a ton of different states. Did you know at every cent might be. We should also do measure for all that we should do national, thought by male thirty days yeah, but should you like you do in or like you do it in again? What about election days holiday? I do that two other, many people. I've I've made that point on twitter and people and actually a fairly reasons nice way, which made this a unique twitter experience made the point to me that that is true. That will really help you.

Like a salaried workers by service workers are still have to work on holidays, and so the people you're, trying to help you're not like the world, doesn't shut down right like restaurants or o bed. Hospitals are open and so for eight large saying that people it may be the hardest to vote for your email or not helping them. So you should do you You should make it. However, we should also do a month, a vote by mail so that people have as many opportunities as possible like the idea it should be. Elected inspectors should be election month. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I should say that the A producer, Michael Martinez, DC, former DC resident here, was pumping his fist in the air. When you talk about DC statehood, so Michael is very much look forward to that. Amy on Twitter asks us how the hell do. I hope with all this. How do you cope is no one, being in world, is falling apart inside

so there was a love it at its has hit very existential question like if none of us are going to even know it like that. We think we're cobia we're not actually coping I, like, I guess I'd, say echo. They saw this one doing. Something is better feels better than sitting at home in lamenting the state of the country and sadness, and so I have that is Kevin, saying that is going to a march. If that's registering voters, if that is usually my sister in law, those wishes sense postcards to voters which, as it is, is really neat programme for people who may not be able to remain because of jobs or child care. When Europe may not be able to get out and go canvassing other time. I think that

one thing and then love. It makes this point a lot, but if you dont have to live in the shit, twenty four seven right turn some sense of else on watch the road, a cup watch, a television show binge Netflix like take a break like we're in a marathon here like into doesn't. Eighty is not the end of the marathon it like that. Even the half way point. We have a long way to go to dig our selves out of this and so take a break every once in a while. Don't you dont, like you, are not being a bad person. If you decide you just wanna fire fire of the tv and turn on go more girls and wash it for for a few hours, you'd like you're, not you're, not shirking their duty as an american citizen disturbed by the state, the country, if you take a break for a second but after you, ve recharge batteries, get back out there and start trying to take her country back, I mean look. I I suffer from an addiction.

Twitter, that's my problem. I also you know. My job is to be taken to the news as yours, but if I didn't have that fifty diction to the news I, I sometimes I try myself. It is good to shut off twitter to shut off the news to mean love. It would kill us if we're saying this because, like telling people matter attitude do our content, but I think once in a while, it's good to take a break from all this shit and talk to your family intact your friends and go enjoy something, and because a really bad right now and dont represent some horrible things? Are public partisans, marble things in some horrible things have been with us before Donald Trump and before the Republican Party or with us, during the Obama administration they'd been with us for decades, and it also true that this country has been through worse than what going through right now. There is a civil war in this country. Through all war to civil rights was an incredibly difficult period. Look at the late nineteenth sixties,

So there were worst times this country before and I think like use your you're, absolutely right that it is a marathon, and you know I would going to the march on Saturday with such a refresh. It's such a refreshing thing because a because so many people yourself, your phone, doesn't work as well, and so you can actually read the news as well and you just there with people and you're talking to people, and you feel this, Really positive energy and a matter what you think before the march for they, like, I gotta, wait: burly, I'm gonna go to this margin. Crowd is going to be when you get. There is just it's completely different changes you and you feel better and that feeling, usually last the whole weekend until Monday comes in you open. What Donald in doing some fuckin crazy? What it is that it is important to give yourself those breaks. Dan. This is from Spencer on Instagram, as is for, could you

talk about the lack of parity in the NBA. We have had lack of parity of aid for as long as I have watched, the NBA we ve had a small handler, franchises franchises, who always win and some franchises who never. When I think of a sectoral fan, I am sad O Brien has decided to take his talents to your town, a valet. I know everyone says the cook. It's moving to allay the big. Let me finally say look about the hidden, does he? Oh, I don't know what is going to mean for you solve expands. You know have to wash the Lakers with abroad by nuggets, and I think that we will revert to the norms and people very upset because the guns they warriors, who are my second team in for anyone who knows me by having second teen? Here's what I say to you. If you're coach would appear impulsive America and then, where his march, to multiple press conferences, including during the ape laughs, then I would consider sporting Europe either.

As well, but they haven't done. That's not. Sesar is obviously occur, the wires and until we find that open invitation, Thursday obey of great pomp of its Red Brown Luke Walt and all of you are invited to a positive Merrick, recurrent conversation experience and I will bring a fucking duffel bag emerge that you can, where all the time, but as good a slow its embassies and was amazing losses in its amazing excess in and our friendship. Surinam pointed out on Twitter that if the only thing you care about the NBA who wins at the end of the season than your miss, all the amazing things are happening, so it'll be another great year, even if the wires will probably when again yeah, I will love since the Lakers I'm not having a second taken team here, but no good for away Goodfellow Brown, good, fella. Ok, speaking of existential questions. Katy on twitter ask why does your love it go to so many escape.

I dont know. If you do, I don't know I've waited for him again. It's an existential question. I think it's about more than just escape rooms all right in our our last question from Hannah on Instagram Winners, Johns Podcast on the Democratic Party coming out great question: on Monday July nights, we are dropping the teaser and you can subscribe to my new podcast called the wilderness decided to announce an internet connection. It s exciting yeah, you know is. Why did you lie knights of like just a few days from now? Yes, it is a have you are you at all concerned ever recorded this package on July? Third, it will come out on July Fifth and according to Alex Jones. The Democrats are sorted this

the war on July. Fourth, I took into account over couple interviews about the Democrats starting a civil war, so Nowheres, but that ok cool. So it is a is a fifteen chapter story to documentaries, dial podcast about a party that is finding it way out of the wilderness. So we are all in the wilderness right now, but while we're here, there's a lot of new ideas, a lotta new energy, lotta, new planning and a lot of new candidates and is about sort of making our way out of the wilderness, though the teacher, ups Angela knife at that day we will also have the chapter titles the descriptions of each chapter. What recovering in each chapter and I will also release the list of guests who I interviewed for this part cast which you are one Dan Dance to me for the media episode

and dumb and then, on Monday July, Sixtyth we're releasing the first four episodes at once the first four chapters of the wilderness, so they will be out on Monday July sixteenth and then we will release one. Every Monday, after that, I am very excited so this is. Finally, this is finally happening now any varies very cited for this. It's gonna, be it's really amazing projects and am very much looking forward to the in I'll I'll say, for you know as tough as these last couple weeks and every time I go back to work on the wilderness and to do all the being in postproduction other stuff. I'm always very hopeful because I would say what I learned from talking to people from all kinds of different backgrounds: views in places like yeah, we're in some shit, but there's a lot more unity in the democratic party. Then you might

think from looking on twitter and cable and there's a lot of people who were on various sides of debates that we had in the party over in recent years and their sort of all coalescing around a certain set of policies discern certain agenda, a certain message, certain idea for tone, and that is very hopeful. So check it out money July, neither the teaser and an angel. I sixtyth. We will have the first couple episodes of the wilderness- and today we are going to

after we say goodbye, we're going to have an excerpt from one of the episodes. This is the episodes episode three chapter, three, it's about the twenty sixteen election and I had a conversation with Rebecca traced, her about sort of why the fight is worth it, even though we know, even though twenty sixteen went horribly wheats, we ve talked about sort of the night before the election and and basically talked about the future of the party and and and what possible. So you can hear that that will play right after where we're done chatting and other than that everyone. I hope you had a great forth and hope you have a greatly and then in a well I'll, be back next, we touch everyone, S wake up Fourth, I remember when we were sitting down and work on the second

not your old. As usual came up the whole idea he was like you know. We should start with the first line. The declaration, because my belief is that the you could write. The entire history of the United States in the entire story of America is is each generation trying to make that first line of the declaration Real because it wasn't when it was written, but the promise was Always in the founding in the idea is that each each generation tries to do it in those urban, a hopeful. This report drank, but still you're, not gonna, bet it's because- and this is the thing this is. This is the your story is that he was right to have that hope, I mean I do sometimes think that he. Believe. We were closer to it than we were obviously right run, but he was right to have that hope, because it is possible. It is possible, but the-

that is possible, is precisely what has provoked the punishing pushed back that were living through right now is the fact that its with in our group, asked to make another huge set of steps toward inclusion and Equality and toward the promises, the unfulfilled promises of our founding Because we are on the brink of getting to that next place, that we are being hit so hard. That's exactly what were in the midst of right now and it's not because. Is impossible to get to that next step it because it's really possible

yeah.