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welcome, replied, save America, I'm John Fabric, Andean Pfeiffer, on today's pod Mitch. Mcconnell decides that he won't plunge the nation into a catastrophic procession, for it leads to more months Democratic congressional Campaign Committee Chair, Sean Patrick Maloney, joins to talk about the parties mid term strategy and we bring you a brand new segment or Dan and irate bad takes on a scale of one to four politicos image. We're calling the take appreciate,

Roger you by our own Eliza Cone, whose very excited to moderate this game with us in a bit, but first keep. It is celebrating its two hundredth episode this week, two hundred episodes without ever Inviting me on you can listen to the latest episode with IRA Lewis and guest host Leslie Grossman. New episodes of keep it drop every Wednesday also be sure to check out the latest episode of five hundred and forty four days, crickets newest series about what it took to Free Washington, Post journalist, Jason Rezaian, from Indrani in prison, hosted by Jason himself. The latest episode is about all the people who joined the free Jason Movement from Muhammad Ali. To Anthony Dane, listen and follow for free only on Spotify Classy, something I keep it think for one SEC. Yet her I feel, like I've, missed a huge opportunity to not celebrate the two others episode by having Emily on

I mean I just sort thereof it in your face honest. I think they tried that for the hundredth episode they get really creative and figuring out ways to piss me off and also keep me off the show which, as you know, to my hat, them for that. But I said something on Twitter and I realized I reckon respond because he is. I think this is the second time he's been before, he had been for this time. No, I don't know what we do. I show you know we should even discuss it. You know it's not even bringing up. Let's get to the news, I can't think of any dumber fights with bigger consequences in Congress, then a fight over the dead ceiling Jen lifting the debt ceiling doesn't cost any money, it doesn't add any debt

merely allows the government to pay the bills that Congress has already wrapped up, but if Congress doesn't lift the debt sealing, the United States government would default on its debt, causing a global economic meltdown for weeks centre. Republicans have been filibustering, Democrats attempt to lift the debt ceiling, but with just two weeks to go until default Mitch, Mcconnell made an offer on Wednesday to drop the filibuster. Inlet democrats raise the debt ceiling, but only until December. Third, which also happens to be the day. The government runs out of money again and, of course, tumor accepted the deal today. They announced that this this deals gonna go through. Democrats are saying that Mcconnell blinked and are calling this a victory. What do you think, then? I think we learned a very important piece of information this week, which is enlargement. Annul miracle was eyelids, just otherwise disorient, just

Is there an undead soul staring in a grim reaper, just sort of staring into your I've got a faint ass, my favorite rounds of the infinite Jennifer's. When people say on what our house, which were kind of sleep at night, I always say he sleeps during the day, hang upside down, but that is not funny. It's the heap, the one hundred percent blinked right into the credit of Santa Democrats. It we can talk about why it's very release by everyone said every Capitol Hill reporter. Who was too just right. Networking talking points in the form of articles mostly held in political, but not just politico, said he would never blank and he wanted to prison point? I argue the other side just cause. Why not? what team is ok, which is clearly, but it is clear it I'll give you the benefits of the blank

right, so we get to more months in those two more months that we get until the government potentially defaults. Democrats get to hopefully of finnish negotiations over build back better pass that path by person. Infrastructure bill, pass everything without the threat of default or actual default, even worse hanging over them. So in that sense, Democrats are quite happy that they get to do this for two more months. but aren't we just in the same exact place in another two months and like doesn't Mcconnell, I mean, is again a blink, then what will make him blink ban into more months? The first links, the harness John, I mean yes like this. Is crisis deferred, not crisis averted. One hundred Romania right, which is basically we ve gone from.

A huge fear that the global economy, with thoughts before Halloween, two huge fear that the great like I know, classy for right now, I got so. That is what we have achieved here, but I think that buried in this is a real admission of weakness from and this whole time no one pretend to be strong to hide weakness, better than Mcconnell saying Mcconnell is weak in the sense that if we just give enough money to Amy. Mcgrath again will the freedom and twenty twenty six or he's gonna be deposed by Josh holier takers, who benefits from the fact that the centre is honours far right, flank have never had a single friend in their lives are not likely to persuade a majority of my colleagues the ditch em, but he is weak because the most influential member of his party hates

it wants to depose him attacks him in statements that we only see whence reporters treat them out. He these centres, who hope to run for president, know that they strengthen their hand by doing so by bucking, macabre and Mcconnell is incredibly unpopular. another partner on the way most congressional leaders are words like they're like by their party but hit, but disliked by independence and the other party Mitch Mcconnell separating in them in the most recent political morning. Council Paul is seven points underwater with Trump twenty twenty voters. He has no juice in this situation, and that is why he pushed democratic budget reconciliation, because every path does include budget reconciliation of Democrats doing it without him ends up with him. Looking really we can further inflaming base, it is trying to defeat his candidates in twenty two. Do you understand this reconciliation thing? Because it's one thing I didn't mention in the indirect as it is quite complicated but like? Why don't

Emigrates want to lift the debt ceiling on their own through reconciliation and why do Republicans want them to so badly while there is the and that's ain't, these are good reasons on either side to be very clear by the main reason is that if you deal with the dead ceiling through regular order, you can suspend it to a date. You can say we are going to suspend yelling with this until January. First, twenty twenty three or January third, twenty. Eighty, seven right! If you do with your budget reconciliation, because the very stupid roles of butter, reconciliation, you can only lifted by a certain dollar amount. Democrats

fear that it by lifting it to a certain dollar amount. It is opening at them up to additional attack ass, much ricotta was telling reporters or his aids or winking and nodding reporters it. That's that is the brilliance of its plan. To see is going to make Democrats. Take this vote. We can make a run adds against more Kelly Ruffian WAR, not Maggie Hassan, whoever us. That is what is here, but the reason I think Mr Connell really wants accepts a stupid. Fucking reason it so stoop I just had to put it is this if the stupidest thing it's one of US duplicity that ever heard- and we ve had a lot of stupid things on the show, but we ve to talk about for the last several years. But the idea that ok, Republicans already are gonna run, adds against Democrats that they all voted for and propose trillions of dollars, a spending that are going to add to the debt. Even though that's alive not gonna cause all paid for, but they're gonna say that right then, even if we lifted the debts without a dollar amount and just lifted it, they'll say Democrats allowed themselves to spend more money again

lie, but they're gonna run the at anyway. What the fuck is, the difference if they and put a dollar amount on it when they already have true and of dollars of spending that they're gonna run ads on. Is it I wouldn't be afraid of it. I be excited about it. If I was Republicans, I would be afraid of it. If I was Democrats, I think both sides, thinking about the number that you lift the debt ceiling to is the stupid, is fucking. I just what is going on. There is an old saying, and when I say it's not say I am saying it is something that I saw ten years ago, and no one is picked up since then, but they all, but the only people who believe Republican Our key points are democratic members of Congress. It up that we, that is what is going on here, edited leg. It makes no sense budgets, because it doesn't make sense, as it mean the Democrats, some believe it. But the reason Mcconnell wants to tat, which is very, I wonder, explain how this can work. So if you,

The Democrats refused to do through budget reconciliation. We have three options default that seems not cared for. Anyone correctly like probably worse, for Democrats by had done so good for Republicans, either correct option two is the Republicans agree to shimmers request, which is shimmering What are your folks, you don't have. Not one of you has to go through this, just wave the filibuster and let us off. If you Democrats before they were told me they're going to do it, you guys can all vote. No, you can run your ad saying you voted, do what the problem for Mcconnell, is any single senator can block that unanimous consent request and he does not have the juice to keep jolly TED. Crews ran Paul in line to see to that. So the other option is for ten republican senators to cross party lines as theoretically

Mcconnell and make him look weak further, inflame Trump and the Maghreb base. It say like make them angry at the center Republicans. So for he does what do one? He can't you two and three makes him like bats. It was only option is to tell Democrat, you go do about all on your own. Already book involve word now to my people. Can stop you go. Do it? Here's words challenging for Democrats, when Mcconnell Republican said democratically, do it alone, The reconciliation Democrats not only said We're not going to do that because you know we're afraid of your very scary attack ad about this. They also said: look we don't have time it's two weeks. We're going to default to reconciliation is a very long process. Drawn out there's these fuckin vote around. As you know, we take all these votes. We don't know that we're gonna have the time to do this now, Mcconnell sang I'm giving you two month. You can no longer use the excuse that you don't have time to lift the debt ceiling.

The reconciliation on your own. You can absolutely do that in two months and by the way, that's what Joe Mansion wants you to do. You need his vote and he doesn't want to get rid of the filibuster. He told me to let you just vote to lift the debts. on your own? So now report is going to say why won't democrats do at the reconciliation they have two months- others even what more giant complication there as well, which is theoretically in those two months Democrats are going through ass a butter reconciliation deal. So what are they could dead feeling increase in yes. This is where I go. I too, like I, don't know why this was a big win for anyone. I know that it bought us time to negotiate b, B B. F. I compliment you said that negotiation process barely we say, jobs and families plan with jobs, unfairly I know that goes against our will all the time right here. I feel like we re trying to do this by if the New York Times is calling it the social welfare bill in its headlines like we, its Turn

they're not going to adopt the slogan on a bumper sticker to use and restore its. I am, I said that it should have been called the fucking economic plan, all along, which is something that reports would actually print and Economic Atlanta set of some fancy title. This has been anyway, but I digress but yeah no look I get that we get the extra time to negotiate the bill without default. That's good! We ve saved up to fall prey to Ms Mcdonald did clearly blink in this scenario. I just dumb one of the good arguments that we had is that we don't have time to do it now. We have the time- and I am a little concerned about how that plays out. So you knows we said mansion told reporters on Wednesday was still against changing the filibuster at all, even to avoid default, even after Joe Biden has always been against performing the filibuster and maybe the entire rest of the democratic carcass except for dinner. Possibly Cinema said yeah we're I need to get rid of the filibuster to avoid default. You know mentioned still say

he wouldn't even reform the filibuster even to avoid default like that? really bode well for filibuster, reform on voting rights or anything else. Does it notes that it doesn't? It does not bode well. For that I mean it's Mary Mansion will only make it may be, that measurable never give us or it could be that if republicans were. Filibustering, allowing firefighters into a burning capital intervention would be ok with it. Maybe, but certainly not getting that. Certainly, what it seems like a bad because like this. Is you know you have this theory that maybe this is why I am adamant. I'm revealing your private text threat theory here that maybe No we're talking. We talked about it. We Taylor right on this and this and this podcast just no one. No one gave me credit for my theory, but yeah go ahead, while I've aid via the genes would you have a name for your? the rest of us really,

theory that will never come to pass. Go yes, there he'll ever got about either. I'm reporting that today The theory is that the theory of the Schuman plan All along was to bring this right to the brink so that mansion and Cinema finally felt pressure to either reform the filibuster. Let the country default, knowing that the two of them wouldn't let the country default, even Republicans, probably would and then once they reform the filibuster. For this, it becomes easier to reform the filibuster for everything else that that was my very overly optimistic theory, though it does seem like that, might be what humour was thinking, and there is reporting that that is one of the reasons why Mcconnell blinked his actually attic reported he set it on the floor of the centre. Right was that this was that he and his concern with the Democrats were wrecked. The Senate in it.

Fusion to which she has lit multiple fires over the course of time, but it still it's not. It seems like that's not where we're gonna end up here in part, because there is offering a bunch of reconciliation which has been the offering of that allows the scent the filibuster too. tests under our nerves, and we should be, I think, realistic. You know some people said well once the filibuster has gone for this. It's gone for everything that is theoretically true in a world where votes. Forty, nine and fifty are not here since it geometric right and so just because it were to go away for in a very narrow, avoid defaults

scenario. Does it mean that all the sudden they're gonna past voting rights or fifty dollar minimum wage or eleven dollar minimum wage, or that women's health act or any of those things? But it would be a positive step towards making the Senate a wee bit more democratic in any better progress would be positive. We should quickly side, but the latest update on the budget negotiations Bernie Sanders chairs. The budget committee held a press conference on Wednesday, where he called under mentioning Pearson sentiment to be specific about what their willing to support the final budget agreement saying to people do not have a right to sabotage what the other four years, senators plus the present states, plus most of the american people, actually want. In response mansion said respectfully, centre centres I share very different pulsing political beliefs. Is he and I have discussed while they talk? Who knew senator senders? Believes America should be moving towards an entitlement society, while I believe we should have a compassionate and rewarding society what an asshole. So what do you think that says

about the status of the negotiation. The Burmese out there were still given a press conference Yahoo in It Mansion and cinema do you know how we often say that Democrats needs you, stop communicate with each other through our beds or through anonymous leaks to capital reporters. You know, what's one step worse than that Calling your press conference yell at some of that you have lunch with every week, He held on Wednesday. They have lunch. they're on Tuesday like it seems I would say, is that I very much is that is that similar to win you attack Ben roads for having soup with Bob Woodward on this park, as instead of just texting, minor texture. similar bide. I have not seen it and roads in person in a year and a half sir, if we had at once on Tuesday. I would have mentioned it yet It gives me a little worried because I kind of thought that we were

there's a lot of other reports that say the Democrats are actually narrowing their differences right now, which I do think overall, that's where its headed, but I am guessing that if, if your Bernie sanders- and you thought the three point, five trillion was the compromise which was in now made. is still saying one point: five one point: five one by Veni won't even go above that a little bit yeah, probably pretty fast at that point- yeah me, I'm sure Bernie has every right to be pastors. If you look at the long arc of burmese career, he has never played this role on a core Paul parents, he wasn't the what he did not say. Oh, you want the afore will correct. I am

yeah and no one else will vote for a walk. I demand that a careful right. He did not do that right. He or he- and he pointed this out at the press conference on Wednesday, he said I could have gone to Joe Biden and said you're not gonna include Medicare for all in this budget reconciliation than I'm gonna voted down. He could have done that. He didn't do it he's been playing really well very practical, very pragmatic Bernie Sanders this whole time so of all the progressives. So It looked it really sucks, but it goes back to the point we made a bunch, which is the reason that I think some of these centres have more leverage is that they have made it clear that their fine walking away with nothing even walking away without the bipartisan infrastructure bill that they love so much they negotiated. They seem like they would. Rather some of them seem what they would. Rather, let that die than go with a bigger proposal that has more policies that would help more people, which is really fucking unfortunate.

exactly where we are midst depressing and that's it. Political report illustrated the white, as is leaning towards keeping most proposals in the bill, but spending less money on each for shorter period of time, or do you think of that strategy? I think it's probably a mistake, I understand why you're doing that, because you have made this point on Monday, which is you can lose no vote. and so, if you cut this thing out, other son, these members say will lead our elder care is incredibly important to us is our second priority is the last chance to do this in a sound Will you not myself. So I understand from a purely legislative wrangling perspective that probably makes passage easy from a substantive impact, political impact in twenty twenty two and beyond. I think that that isn't, second, as always, is a general rule of life. No choice is never the right choice rising like if you

Did you know, sort of spreading the Woodman bottom up money around in such so broadly that it can have very limited impact on people is going to make these policies mean less, moreover, already seeing how hard it is in some of the pulling on the child tax credit other things to get people to view this as a policy that should continue. That is incredibly impact for that is in arguing. for electing Democrats, and so it is in the thing that I think twice. All of this is what is it due to the climate spending cuz? That to me is more important than anything else, because there was not. The other really at the reasons that its on why it may be the last chance for a while, at least for child care

our child tax Barroso. Things has to do with the political environment. Climate change has to do with the planned right and there may not. Weblike time is ticking there. I think the climate is the exception in that. In me, no Congresswoman tripos has said this before that they still want tenure funding on climate change, because it doesn't work to do this for a couple years. It's gotta be permanent, so I think that's them the major exception, though again that's gonna, be determined by whether Joe mention once like a real, clean energy standard that actually punishes polluters are makes polluters pay and not just one that rewards companies that are transitioning to clean energy, which would have the same punch. I think on everything else. Look if you ask

mention wants to do start means testing a lot of these proposals so that a lot of people who are working class middle class dont get the benefits that I agree with you that it's a huge problem. But if you're saying on a lot of these proposals, let's do more proposals for two here's a three or four years, as opposed to ten years, but make sure we we get all the proposals in there are as many as we can, then I think you're actually delivering benefits to more people across more policy proposal and more programmes over a short period of time and actually will have more of an impact on people ahead of the twenty two mid term? So let's say you do

paid, family leave and helping people attend community college and a child tax credit and you're expanding Medicare benefits to cover dental and hearing, and all of these things aren't going to last now, ten years but they're going to be funded for three years or four years. That's a lot more people, different groups of people who are going to feel the benefits of this legislation then, if you say just child tax credit, which only goes to people with children, you see what I'm saying. I only think that that's why actually put just from a pure. I don't think I don't necessarily know that. That's good policy to have all these cliffs programmes that are there that are going to run out and for years, but politically, if you're, the White House in the Democratic Party in you want people, you want more people to feel the benefits of the legislation you're passing soon before the mid terms. That might be one way to do it. I guess that the new on to my position would be. I do not mind the cliff.

from a political perspective. If you couldn't nearly fully find all these things for two years three years or four year, I would pick probably ever since expired in twenty or twenty five feet now the rat or maybe twenty three is better for just remain political imperative. Get it done, but either way the cliff doesn't bother me. There's always gonna be a class that is unfortunately only way our Congress cooperate now it's more whether, by funding everything, do you have to only do the length of the programme, or do you also have to cut down on the number of people who receive it and how much they receive right is the Russia is a subsidy go down to the point where it is not significant enough for the number of people who get it whenever people who were angry about not getting it yes, so high. That did not wait like as people much smarter and more substantive than us will alba. That's the issue. I completely

your honor I when we come back, we will talk to the chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Shun Patrick Maloney, positive It has brought you by noon. Numerous to change how we see food with the psychology based approach that looks at what you eat, but also how you eat instead of making you feel guilt or regret. You know it doesn't do either of those things, not those thanks shirt. I meet us at I've, been trying to read the copy here. Cuz, I'm thinking about the question it asks, which is Sheraton. You felt trapped between two choices, but eventually found a totally different or better solution. There's this one time when I was going to play a game with some friends and I had to choose between number one and number, sixteen enough for me, yeah that it basically so either you're playing a kind of game in game. Four keep someone's like kind of a metaphor for capitalism, we have put an adjustment to choose between two people and you're gonna wonder goes like a better last squid gamer from mouth. No, of course not now Edison

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the stakes could be higher. We gonna win because there are some dangerous reckless people on the other side and we're doing historic work. Their will create a whole new generation of prosperity that, for the first time in our history, is truly inclusive size I describe. It is building a bridge to the future and it's not easy, when that and give the present credit for leading on that, and I am proud to be a part of that effort of maintaining the political capacity to get it up since then we need a much bigger infrastructure package to build a bridge. It's just something I am thinking here well, greater grinned, hilarious ITALY, but on top of a lot of plenty of beef jokes, if you want to sit on my foot what I've been reduced to hear, but eight is a bridge to somewhere right. It is a bridge, it is a bridge to the future and not kidding aside, look where the party Jean Louis right and sometimes when you march across the bridge, the future. There's people trying to stop you and we shouldn't be surprised that his heart, but I do think we're getting there

and if you look at what's Goin on another, spend some twisted metal and broken glass, and it's been great for cable news business models. But the truth, is, is that we are moving the thoughtfully toward to historic pieces of legislation that can make a big difference. You are reportedly told has Democrats in August that if the midterm election were held, then they lose the majority. Do you still think that, if elections, today what I was August, so good news Have you ever was also has ever was really awesome. He's got more amazing that in its eventually one more August between now and the election, so really know, look it. You know, I know that's been reported widely. I think what I was relaying first of was that we work in the sugar coated stuff that we're gonna to give people the accurate information of our best understanding of where, where we were succeeding in failing in communicating with people what we vote doing. We know that what we're doing is popular. We know that make a difference. It's nothing,

Tyler whether people have heard about it, whether they, whether they see it and feel it their own, and what's going on in our country right now, and you got a massive welfare machine tell them. Things are terrible number one number two by you ve got some really difficult problems that we are tackling and we it's not gonna happen overnight and while we ve done a lot that we're still in the process of putting those solutions in place, but man there's tens of millions of families who are benefiting from the child tax cut right now and ask them what it what it means in there in the family budget. To the point, is that We put all these peace is in place. We are gonna, be able to run on a record of results, because the best messages impact right, the best messages when people feel it and they know it's happening and then we got it. We got to remind them that the other side forest every step of the way and if they want to keep this progress go and they got a support us Spain and twenty twenty democratic. The White House took the Senate and then House was a surprising disappointment, we most people expect of us again seats. We lawsuits you ve gone back and

those race and what lessons did you learn about? What went wrong with our strategy then? And what are you doing in twenty two way to do it? Just for that? I think the biggest people miss about the twenty twenty election. Is they figure with some big message contest and the messages are important? Don't get me wrong, but fundamentally what trumps succeeded in doing this? bringing out a large number of low propensity voters and they beat us in much every category of voter in terms of their likelihood too, to vote, and what that means is when you, when you're flood the poles with your voters, you know your message looks a lot better right, I mean right, I mean you know. Warren Buffett did you find out who skinny didn't when the tide goes out right? Well, everybody looks brilliant in their political messaging when their voters come in, and so I think it was a ten foot wall and trumps turnout gave him a seven foot ladder is my argument t and I think, data supports. It doesn't mean the message doesn't matter it does. But if you look nationally

we actually beaten by four point: seven million votes in house races and lost seats. Writes that tells you what kind of districts were run it in another one right But it also tells you that they are not persuading a majority. The american people with their messaging so what we ve got to do is we ve got it. We ve got a project into a what, I believe will be a low turnout cycle. The kind of massive investments in field and community engagement that we have not done successfully in the past were doing that right now and we needed we need to we need to make absolutely sure that we confront distortions and lies in and when that message war, but that we also have a substantive record of results to run on, but I really believe that that the most important investments were making right. Now earlier than ever are are on Mobilization committee engagement, voter registration, getting on the ground, and I told my people if we have to be in the moon suits, we are going to be knocking on doors, we're going to do it safe,

safely and and and responsibly, but we're gonna on the ground? It made an egg whoever sent agree with your assessment about the impact that trumps or not, but it has turned out us also tied to his message right. He had he had a message that was, you know, I think utter bullshit, but fear and do saying about who Democrats already called you're in New York colleagues, you don't police the funding, so the West, Antiphon, etc? And that message you know it he's my son measures broke through in some ways that at present already beginning this time. How do you know what is Are you giving to your frontline members or your top challengers on how to navigate

so the well funded machine that you talk about. That is pushing these messages out at a very alarming rate. Right. I'm not gonna quibbling with what you say, but I think there is an important I think, there's important gloss on that, which is that you ve gotta, ask yourself whether the the Trump message works without the messenger, whether you can get those voters out without the messenger right. In other words, it was it defending the police or socialism. Those lies they told about. Is that motivated their voters or was it trump? I mean? I mean you guys work for a president who had the same effect on our low propensity voters. We get a bunch of people, who came out for Brok, Obama, and you know, there's a lot of good messaging there and there's a lot of good things. We were pushing and sand, but really he was this enormous right, accelerant to our turn out machine

and so I do think if the Republicans are trying to do toxic trump messaging and branding in suburban swing districts, they better ask themselves whether that message turns our voters or whether it was true, but but so what I'm telling my people is. Is you got it? You gotta tell him what we're doing because its power Billy? We gotta get it done to do that. We got a stick together right and you gotta, reminding the other side is for info action? We were trying to do infrastructure and therefore, therefore fight and when we're trying to fix problems and we're still the hope, guys and there the hate guys and and and if you look at that, what they ve done in the back seat and what you ve done when on the insurrection, I think the Republicans have real vulnerability on how dangerous and reckless they ve been, particularly in swing districts, where

I don't think that's good politics metropolis deftly not on the ballot this time, but Joe Biden is either do have concerns. How do you? How are we going to turn our voters out because were to succeed in this matter? We're gonna have to reduce the number of drought. The typical drop off odorous between private presidential midterms, early right in and that's why I think you ve got a resource it and everything else is kind of hoping for the best in and so what we are doing at the triple seek. Is I've got in dozens of people already working in the field, at a senior level community organizers organizing directors, people who are on the ground a year earlier than they normally would be. Layering in with those campaigns working with cultural competence, and this is important in in communities of color and end in indifferent communities and not seeing all latino communities as a monolith are not seeing all types of sub groups within the democratic coalition is this

but doing with some nuance in some savvy and doing it early and and so that we don't you shop for the election, and so you gotta put a bunch of money behind that and you ve gotta, you ve gotta, I think, shatter the national thinking that we need to pinch pennies all the way up to the last couple of months and then burn bags of money on tv, I dont think that works that well, I think The our ally on early investments in field and in organizing voter registration commuting engagement have been devalued, and I think that we also have Where do the one getting our media mix right, undoing, better digital and doing better social notches tv, but on the off here? There's two big things: you don't you your cheating substantive results with the with the opportunity you been given that it would do in that give the present a lot of credit for go and big, we'll get it done and you and you any organise you get out there and you on the ground and you do an early but you're counterpart at the Democratic Governance Association, Mexico, Governor Michel, Lou, hunger, Isham, set at the mid term, will be a referendum

pandemic do grew that in some ways you bet, I think that you gotta grow this economy than the pandemic. You that's on us. It's it's not fair, it's not easy, but the present is tackled a bunch of things from ending a twenty or more to tackling global pandemic, to grow, this american economy to to really rebalancing for the first time in decades, the opportunity for stability and wealth creation that working middle class families have versus the very rich we're doing the most important work for four. I think for the economic threads that that hold together our democracy since the new deal, certainly since the great society and where this close and if we get it done, then I think that the race, wherein is find out whether people give a shit, whether we ve told them or not, whether it actually impacting their lives. I'm you guys saw this movie with the affordable care right everybody loves it now, but it took years to convince people. Why was

potent and why would make such a critical difference in their lives? We haven't advantage, which is that the changes were making our more immediate child tax cut. I think see this in lowering people's health insurance premiums, expanding medicate coverage and even things we'll take a little longer, but that are are really important. Like universal Pre K, pay, family medical leave a universal comedic, knowledge of these and go right at what matters to a families in a hope, streams, budget and and we can get em all done we'll. Let let me ask one more question about that, because Obviously, the negotiations are still ongoing over build back. Better and what's gonna make it into the final bill, which proposals are most important to your frontline members. What are you hearing? People who were in the tough as district say this is gonna, be in the bell, or this is really important to get in the bill. Well, I think it aggressive, may undervalue. How important state local tax deductions are. As such, that a lot of front ran on something that their voters

really care about so think about be corner overlap and night. This is a conversation. Only pundits would love, but think about the overlap between competitive congressional districts and and higher taxed higher, probably valued suburbs. It's the best overlap in in the house, rubs, then right, and so it the accident that swing districts in long island. The organ Hudson Valley, where I live in New Jersey and Orange Kind of California in Illinois all are very focused on this. So that's an important issue that I think you'll see included in a final package. That's good! But there's a lot others. I think that more broadly, absolutely what I just spoke about. The child tax cuts is really and I thought I think, you'll see the debate on whether its permanent or whether its authorized for a number of years, but it's gonna, be there right, and then and then and then look really focused on the infrastructure bill as well as something that people really understand and want and think is think, is a real, win in competitive seats, we're gonna, put a

hang on that salt deduction to make sure that, like super rich people can take advantage of it. I know it hit some middle class people and in these suburban districts, which is totally fair, but if you like, some of the other two should be a cap. At some point, he opened yeah, listen, I mean you're you're endanger bring us into a policy conversation and until about everything you want a little substantive. I will, as I guess, can do that do look, there's different proposals out there. I made my when Gaiety Party would tell you that you know it here. If you get the cap high enough, you ll actually you'll actually make money on the on the right restoration over ten years cause it's gone away completely, in short and she made money setter. She made the better days. I thought for it. When we had our that's

That's that's a clever argument. I think my preference is a little cleaner. I would I would give people they deductions back full stop, and I would do it for the next couple of years and if you can't afford it, you know did did it do it for less time, not for fewer people but in arm I'm tragedy troublesome stipulating that the most important thing to do, as you said, a rigorous deliver for people by giving I never got to control passing these very important bills. You are also a huge part of this election to be making a case against allowing Republicans back into control of any part of government. What is your most Current thinking on the best narrative to use against Republicans deserves theirs, what does a shortage of bad things? They have diner things to be afraid of so, but how do you you think is the best way to frame the argument against Republicans yeah. This is where I might be a little different than some of my colleagues I mean remember it's

usually have a d triple see, chair from a super competitive, see Rapid Donald Trump One, my seat and twenty sixteens. I'm gonna live and breathe. This and you're talking to a guy who's, a gay guy with an interracial family in a Trump district right. So I don't I don't. I don't win my seat by hoping for the best or thing and everybody change all their views about Democrats or things it. Maybe they don't like about the way. The way you win and compared it see is invalidate the other choice and you and you let people hold on to enough of Ghana, who they see themselves as a cultural values and some of their other kind of drivers that might not always be in our direction, but their vote for you. And so you do that it seems to me by delivering in a real way for your district, and so that's really important and an end. I think that that, therefore, what I'm trying to values is my narrative centres around you can't do that. But you don't have to love everything about the Democratic Party, but you can't do those guys right now, because whether you're talking about storm in the capital,

and asking us to look the other way when a bunch of cops got hurt killed. What are you talking to Spreading dangerous conspiracy theories like queuing on or off get in the way of our efforts, the vaccine, it you get the vaccine out and end the pandemic. Will you talking about people who questioned whether the victims of school shootings were child actors, as some of them do, who form a white supremacy caucus? You see. The point point is this: you can't do that and and look at what we do. You may not think were perfect, but man you get that child tax cuts in this work in a miracle in your family budget, and if you don't go for the Democrat, you're gonna lose it. So what do you want to do so? I think fruit. For me, the core messaging, the competitive seeds is to say we got a plan for the future. Its helping you it's happening right now and the other side is is a dangerous group of people, and so you gotta stick with for a little while longer to heal our country and get us back to a better place is talking about Trump in the looming threat of here.

returning to the White House or stay, but if a stage part of that narrative errors that counterproductive, since it may generate some of that turn out, there was a problematic and twenty. I don't think my fear is that it generates the trump turn out. I think that's uniquely about whether or not he's on the ballot. I mean look at what happened in Georgia, special actions right I mean who just Two weeks later, they use not the same message and we elected and African American and the first jewish enter from Georgia for goodness sake, get a look at the cut off when you really call pretty good match up between the right now

I'm an elder, would not a bad proxy for Biden. Trump referred Democrats Republicans and we take their but including in the competitive areas like Orange County, not just state wide watch. The virginias governors re some very focused on that. I think that's good data right, but I think that I think that the key right now is to use to understand the parts of Trump that that invalidate the Republicans who try to run on that toxicity without me. They didn't the big lie about the election. The big lie about the pandemic in the vaccine. Those are real vulnerabilities for any Republican or how about taken away women's reproductive freedom. I mean that is trunk toxicity with

Trump on the ballot. I would argue that if they keep going down that road, that's an anvil on which weaken hammer them in competitive swing, districts right, and so so. I think that I wouldn't I wouldn't come just go against Trump as a blanket message, but I do think the toxic elements of what his presidency represented a really bad politics in in swing seat. I have one last pretty nerdy question pulling was once again pretty bad and twenty twenty have the pulsars that you guys work with done anything to adjust and and do you feel confident in the numbers just in terms of being able to move the resources to the most important districts cost for the public. Who cares we follow the pulls up and down, but for you guys getting polling rate really matters, because it's about you know the resources campaigns have an and where they go. Absolutely critical in my home job is efficient resource allocation right, and I can't do that if I don't have good data, so you better believe the pulse

I have heard from us on that. We are also going to great them by the way on how well they do that's never happened before, and so we ve indicated a set of metrics to them around what we really need from poles to make good allocation decisions, and- and we want them- to manage to that test. We want them to get better at those things The great them that after the next election, that's way to say we're holding you accountable, but but more your point. I think we have a very good handle on what happened in the polling. This cycle, the harder job but it basically falls into two buckets right. We saw level is in twenty. Sixteen. By the way we thought it corrected in twenty eighteen. It did as a practical matter, but not, but not in a way that this week that set us up well for twenty twenty years? Here's what happened! What happened is that you ve got you ve got a bad set, a models being used on who's. Gonna turn out and when, when you get your model wrong, is you know, people assume poles are just about give tallying up right? What people today,

but the really about guessing right who's, gonna show up in the election writer, and if you yes wrong, even by a small degree, because you're wrong on how powerful trumps attraction for low propensity voters then small differences. Your model can be a big swing and appalling result. So we went back and looked at a bunch of the poles and then corrected for that turn out, missed and guess what you know you see most of the air and most of the poles corrected. So if you're, if you D, Mps, southern florida- and somebody tells you Europe, six points in your lose by two you're, pretty pasted the poles off by eight. In fact, that's a very minor shift in the assumptions about turn out among low propensity republican voters. You correct for that. You see the poor come back in line, there's a second problem, which is that you know, and it it's a sloppy way

say it, but basically trump people don't like the doktor pollsters re run. So even if you're getting you democrat with, we ve known this for a while. The fancy term is its non response bias and what it means is that you think he got the right demographics in your paw but there's something about, for example, your high school educated white guys they aren't the right, Highschool, educate, awake eyes, they're, the ones that are picking up the phone topical elsewhere and we ve seen that skew the results a little bit and you put those two things together. You get that you get about ninety five percent of the pulling earn twenty twenty we got some of that will correct, naturally, without that kind of Trump surge in turn out, but a lot of it also require some work and we're we're pretty confident that weaved we got a pretty good beat on it are data was really good like an we ransom test like the special action in New Mexico where Melanie stands break but an end are our data was pretty good on that raised. So I can't tell you we wrestled everything to the ground. Remember, pulse appalling has problems of its own because nobody, nobody s

your phone anymore and talks to upholstery so that you just a general response rates, have come away down from say twenty years ago. So so were also elevating qualitative metrics, more focus groups, there's a bunch of them new technologies. You can use that are better than traditional polling. So there's a lot of work to do, but I hope that's not too expensive unanswered We really are focused on. No, it's great it does he like the optimistic scenario, fur twenty twenty two is that the threat of a college dedicated voters who came out in twenty eighteen, many for the first time to vote for Democrats continue to turn out in, in twenty twenty two, even even without Trump, on the ballot, and yet the low propensity voters who turned out for Trump and twenty don't show up in twenty twenty was that we gotta think- and I think that such an interesting point, I think, that's a hypothesis. I tend to share it yes and anything interesting waves

what kind of switching voters on it for a long time. It was that the more reliable voters were republican voters in mid terms. It may be the opposite right. It may be that those those low propensity voters who turned four trump are actually not reliable voters in the mid term and our Research among college educated voters means we have a more stable of promoters who will turn out, but it's not gonna. Stop me from piling resources into into the efforts to win the ground and to do you know the kind of cleaning each man and and and mobilization. I think we really need to do, but but here's hoping you can't machine, Patrick Maloney. Thank you. So much for joining us come out again soon enough, and let us know you're here and on the ground- hey happy to do party America is brought, you buy a footing, means? Be health and warmest company that make comprehensive daily nutrition really really simple,

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I agree there shouldn't be fake brands that look like candy that have led in them, but I just find it very hard to believe that adults are passing them out to children as this retreat. I'm! U Meyer shoe reverb racy for nothing else and nothing else, and also its like most people try to keep their keep their edibles fer. You know, consumption is pasta, tricking, neighbourhood, youths, what I would have fun what people are giving out home an auto insurance with policies. That's great I'll be fine home, an auto covered, similar to what you have now, but at a lower price they ve saved customers an average of one thousand two hundred fifty dollars per year on what they are paying for home, an auto insurance. They save new customers, an average of four hundred thirty five dollars per year on auto three hundred. Few dollars per year on home insurance. Their team will handle the paperwork to set up your new policy or switch over your current one. Getting started is easy. First, had deposit genius dot comments. Are few quick questions about yourself in your property policies, then takes it from their bill. Compare rates for America's top ensures from progressive to also defined

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stories behind their careers. The athlete athlete interviews often on earth never before heard stories and gives audiences and inside look at what it takes to make it to the top. The pledges has featured interviews with legends of the game. Cleaning Abbe one Back Michel, why West Alex Morgan, Candice, Parker, Stephanie, Gilmore early, Lloyd and more and their brand new. Besides out now, including an interview with: U S, women's national team Gully a listener invaluable, Vietnam, Jordan, Larsson, listen Kelly, break it all down on the just women sports pod Download and subscribe wherever you get your Pike S, that's the just women sports broadcasts from you guessed it just women sports check it out. Before we go crook its own did, It all grew. Elijah com has Brand new game called take appreciated that we're gonna try Elijah taken away our

hi guys we're gonna. Take appreciate is great to be I'm gonna shares and notably that on a tree with you, the producer seen these Tags John Dan, have not. They will give their reactions. Time and then read them on a scale of one for politicos bear with us as we work out the case of this game in real time John Dan, are you ready Reddy's I'll ever be? I don't, let's find out the first one is a banker this piece in the daily these titled Kirsten Cinema. was Cheney, are America's best and brave as politicians. Ah there's a close, you can't lobby or intimidate them, because it's impossible to push or mark someone with that level of confidence, indifference as the ultimate form of power. what can I get an author on this now? Yes,.

You know why, if you give me a multiple choice of people likely to have make that take now those who had a high on the list? What was the last sentence of the take alive? Indifference is the ultimate form of power. Oh my god, I don't even know. I want to go back to the link that take itself was pretty bad headline is really what got me going, that their that list, Cheney and cast in Cinema together are America's heroes, because it is heroic. If your cures and cinema too, I don't, say nothing about what you believe not reflect the will of your constituents and what what the fuck is heard about, that I guess what's heroics and tonight, Louis's that they're both doing things that not Lewis likes Eliza did not read the subtitle of that article, which I believe is except.

invitations to DC cocktail parties, whether hosted by Democrats or Republicans missing, attaching both sides on your forehead and working on public. Like what you know, I think I think I guess we should really rape is take lights. It definitely bothered me, but it is a very a man who is he My beliefs are never tramper, but I'm still pretty republican and a lot of other ways. So this is my sweet spot. I, like your son, Cinnamon less Cheney like it's not like. I will appreciate the take, but I won't it's an I've. Seen worse takes on going to give it. I want to give it to me. Because I may give it one political like in the slammed on content. You never give out your highest horse in the first round. You see, but don't allow that's really. Smart, I throw smart all right, we're off number to this page, the Washington Post title protest

Here's in cinema I want, but have some decency, while doing it wait a minute we I just. I think I just heard some stability in return. Your words paging talk, talk, talk, talk, Borneo, Ronald Reagan, your needed with the bourbons in the West Wing read her read about my favorite part of that is how long Tommy went and discontinue continue to offer more content in the middle of the civility, where I really appreciate that its brain, so here's a highlight from that article quote many of the capital writers on January sakes have basically said that they were ass their minds in the melee who's. To say that the next inflamed progressives you confront. Cinema won't be wielding a club proposed something worse to compel her obedience,

thoughts. Now let me I can't we are going to set out illegal gets worse. You guess first, is it former Bush speechwriter Marty's and it is not as a former Bush speechwriter, Michael percent. It is not, I got one last gas Kathleen Parker NO over three, its Henry all not a person who exists. You made that up work, comparing ok, comparing the people that yelled at cures and cinema in the bathroom to the people who violently attacked Congress in order to overturn a free and fair election. That gets fuckin three politicos for me ab elderly people go. There are three plus three political as well, and also, I will say no it's how little attend we paid to the Washington Post about page that we all get people who We didn't get anyone who didn't start working there after twenty ten basically

I don't know. I don't really know Green Henry Olsen is just like someone whose name I see once in awhile. Next, we take the pisses me off and which will continue all right well. Moving on a third Jason Cinema care from the Wall Street Journal this one title Carson Cinema? The bad maverick This highlights is shortened. Sweet. It's just a simple question that opens the article quote: is Carson Cinema. The democratic, John Mccain is she, you know why lazy take lazy bad, take everyone's talking about gears and cinema being the next Fuckin John Mccain Balboa. Someone smartly pointed out that the debt there one the big differences between the two of them are John Mccain talk to the press,

constantly. You knew what John Mccain thought about everything even necessarily agree with it. Sometimes your old rise in and you got angry but, like he talk non, stop to the press about every single thing. He thought about every single issue, curtains and if it does not do that, she runs away. You hide from the present just like playing this game, so I dont there like at all, and I think it's a shitty tat. They think it's it's a bad bad. Take one political one, political at having to give it to politicos speakers I think, you're dismissing the obvious reason that they are the same. Letters from areas on the other bet. That's there now is how they gotta that super smart, overtake that no one had made ever before Galaxy Brain right. There next day had hurry. I think the segment is going so far, I am, I am a little less angry than I thought I'd be, but I'm I'm gettin there, I'm thinkin. By take seven, I could be pretty Ryan

I'm giving you to write you for this three, a cost us, so that's what the other I will make maybe there's one well ok I'll go in here for an answer from the Wall Street Journal done crash destroy political norms to save themselves. So, is a piece about our loss of faith in our democracy and rights to the election. Overturning elections quote this narrative of continuing. Institutional crisis, for which only Republicans are to blame is convenient political cover for Democrats until then, on the other side acknowledge their own role in undermining democratic legitimacy. The crisis will only deepen what pulling call norms. Have we violated that are equivalent to storming the can capital in overturning an election bathrooms some some protesters stupidly but followed your sins.

Never did you not do you must take one or whatever? That was what is that you is this z Elijah? Can you tell us what the norms their referring to are the russian, instigation of specific cases against Russell Gerard Baker, owe them Baker former editor of the paper, that of really that's a pretty bad. Take that's gettin! That's again, three politicos for me: I'm really give it to I just I'm hesitant to give out the four yeah cause. I don't know I just don't we just don't know what the ceiling of this is either you really gotta earning. But what that car that is to me is I'll. Gerard Baker explains his supportive trump to his children. That's I think that as yet it's it's tough. I haven't you,

four yet either it's because, like we haven't heard from crystallized, we haven't heard from playbook. We haven't heard from acts like there's a a lotta of stars out there in the bad take world that have just done that haven't popped up yet some the Darwin, had norms and both sides. I figured out like that, but here's one from playbook itself, no mother quote one note of caution for down just as eliminating the filibuster report nominees eventually led to doing so for a Supreme Court nominees, an exception for the debt ceiling would inevitably trigger. Other demands, one could imagine voting rights advocates crying valid, for instance, insisting that their issue is worthy of similar treatment. This is a this is one politico in my bark is why a one political take to me is taken something that is patently obvious and then packaging it as smart.

Inside our conventional wisdom, and that is what this is like. No shit, Sherlock, yeah! I wrote I read this one does, of course I myself loving playbook reader, and I do think that it is a correct. Take. They, of course you know they framed. It is like oh whiny voting rights advocates. You know just go, be complaining! It's like! Yes! Now exactly afar! That's our whole! We hope so. Yes, we all hoped that is correct. All right. Let's turn it up here. This one is from Ben Shapiro. On his own outlet, the daily wire, which is extra. my conservative and one of the most popular outlets on Facebook. This pieces, titled facebook- reveal how it suppresses articles protecting leftist legacy. Media Shapiro, tweeted understand

Facebook whistleblower story is just the next step in a never ending Democrat media quest to cuddle Facebook. In a quasi alternative media, I mean you have to give Shapiro credit for the shamelessness of that take, which is why it so it's it's actually true to the title of the game. It's a truly appreciated. Take to be that shameless that that your entire company, everything you do is fuelled by the facebook algorithm that works in your favour and yet you complain about Facebook, bad is really ballsy from Peradventure bureau. So actually worse. But let me I was there. I was that when your great give your great oh I'll, give it three political, again foreplay, because it is not just that Ben Shapiro happens to benefit from the Facebook algorithms. Ass. He threw the genius of his own cell figure out how to make the most compelling contact his.

amidst scheme of websites violates facebooks, Kohl's in every way, shape or form and despite having that fact flag to mark Zuckerberg Multiple occasions, Facebook has refused, under the advice of George Kaplan, the their republic in Surrender Brett Cavenaugh, who runs or policy department to not. enforceable rules again Shapiro because that would make them work. Biased against conservatives and our anger Republicans Shapiro knows this, so is not just that he is living. And I imagine a large house that Mark Zuckerberg bought for him he's leaving these living in a way that its aid, it is a very bad houses made of glass- is what I would say to close that day. wow Elijah, I feel like Barry Action is what you are looking for when you pitched take appreciated. As I really really candidates. All my life takes more. There

all right. Well, this is the last one. Dance are to get riled up on that last one cuz this this one is also pretty much directly for you. It's from Philly Sports Network, a piece titled. The Sixers need to be patient with men's a pole from the article is code, it's time to realise that maybe not the player, who is the problem, fans and Eddie are two comfortable booing idled. I feel like Grady, that on a scale of Regos mistake. I think that is that's three parted. My takes how's that a guy at first TAT S a terribly stupid thing. If anyone two or three skip palaces- whatever. Whatever you want to do with that by then there's an absurd take ad fans coddled night in nice

We supported amendments for very long until he was unsupportable, and so I am for the patients, but it ain't the fans fault. There is no Philly fan who was whispering and bends Simmons is here, do not you that was that would happen, so fans to comfortable booing both quota. Take a love that accurate that Philadelphia. yeah. I want that was very friendly fat guy, yeah you don't we don't Eads we're very kind. Very kind in Boston were known for our kindness arrival. That concludes the first instalment. take appreciate authors, Elijah, fantastic game. I'm looking forward to playing again can't wait for it for love and Tommy to join in on a Monday five for this cuz. This is this is fun. I want to do this one again. Thank you for the game. Thank you to Sean, Patrick Maloney for joining us and talking about D triple c.

energy every one of the great weekend and we'll talk you next week by everyone. Pod save America is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is flabby accustomed. our producers here we muse and Olivia Martini as is our associate, produces its mixed in edited by Andrew Chadwick, Someone is our sound engineer, things too Disseminating Katy long roman puppet Dmitri, O Brien, similar Carol, rest in medicine, foreman, ingesting cow for production, support into our digital team, larger cone. Phoebe Bradford in my look him who film and upload these episodes of videos at you to dot com, slash, crooked, meaning. I was in earlier shooting something and I was staying. Chateau, Marmalades and I went to the where those with marketing as I had my dog

like a big cities as walking back just a moment and a car up behind me and the who came down in this women cited a comic Islamism scheme. Despite a pyramid, the third and I'm Louis Fertile- and you just heard a clip from our interview with Alan coming from our two hundredth episode of keep it to hear more about how he was cat called by MEL B of the spice girls, what a dream come true, listen at subscribed to keep it wherever you get your podcast, in two thousand fourteen I was working for the Washington Post in IRAN. One night, some as with guns showed up at my apartment and took my wife and meat, I knew the way in deep trouble, but obviously I was trying to be helpful. Nothing. Now I spent a year half of the hostage everyone from my family,

to President Obama played a role in getting the andreasen. Was I host to five hundred and forty four days, a Spotify original produced by gimblet crooked media and a twenty four episodes of five hundred and forty? days are available right net following list for free. Only on sport.