Donald Trump and Republican leaders are still refusing to acknowledge that Joe Biden won, the Trump campaign strategy to steal the election is failing, and a purge at the Pentagon raises concerns. Then Stacey Abrams talks to Dan about how Democrats can win in Georgia and all over the country.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The present exports are pod. Save America is, if yesterday was veterans debt.
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I welcome the Plaza America John Fabric andean driver onto
pod, the one and only Stacy Abrams Talk today about how Democrats can win in Georgia and all over the country before that
What about why Donald Trump is still refusing to concede an election. He lost badly there
Looking politicians who refused to do anything about it and how President Elect Biden is handling all of this, but first don't miss.
Sweets parts of the world where Tommy and Ben talk about how world leaders reacted to Joe Biden victory and why british Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, is shaped shifting creep.
what Tommy called him, which is now hashtag. That's just been trending on Twitter Tommy caused an international incident which we love will have greater media, causing international incidents.
Ben also talked with the former mexican ambassador to the United States about with
Elections going to mean for one of America's most important diplomatic relationships or check that out.
So exciting NEWS adopted State Georgia is here.
control of the U s- and it will come down to two runoff elections in Georgia on January Fifth, John S, efforts is David Produce and Raphia Warnock versus Kelly Leffler. These will be tough raises, but Joe Biden did beat Donald Trump in Georgia, so the votes are their help us find them at votes of America. Dotcom such Georgia, where we will send you all the info. You need to volunteer and support organizers on the ground. I received word that sends at launch this morning
already six thousand people signed up. So what are you waiting for you received word? Was it a message in a bottle? Lid was Revell. Come from me. It was a
the telegraph for Michael Martinez. Actually, that's that's how I got it was in my inbox
Oh, that is antiquated.
Get to the news. I want,
of you to know that Dan title this part of the outline coup update, so
who update you shall have
has been merely a week since every
major media outlets in the country called the race for Joe Biden and most
world leaders have already reached out to congratulate him. The President Elect is on track to win three hundred and six electoral votes, he's ahead by tens of thousands of votes in each of the closest Battleground states and he's on track to have the biggest popular vote margin of any challenger to an incumbent president, since Sdr beat Herbert Hoover election officials,
both parties told the New York Times. There has been zero evidence of fraud or other irregularities in the trunk campaign.
Legal team is now all four twelve in their post election court cases, and yet Donald Trump refuses to concede. One republican close to the White House till the daily beast quote:
it's like dealing with a lunatic on the subway everyone just kind of citizens,
there's a head pretends. They can't hear him and waits for him to eventually get off a great quote. I will say the brilliant tinier summit or a cargo media
pondered to that girl ass, I said yeah the differences we are all on the subway and he is driving it. We're stuck with him. Monsieur
way right now, which is true day,
what's goin on here, even if Trump is unlikely to ever, actually concede. Why hasn't he at least acknowledge the results and allowed the transition to be
because he has a small, sad, particularly stupid, petty person correct. Let's move on
is it like that? There is nothing surprising about what Europe is doing
we sort of new he would do. That is, as we know he raised completely.
Most fraud, allegations and contest the results in the election he one in twenty sixteen. So how can we expect him to respond to an election? He lost.
undermining the integrity and legitimacy of our elections is one of trumps favorite things to do, and
always been one of his favorite things into this is why, like we're gonna talk about how alarm we should be, what how, at whatever level of alarm peoples,
Have I dont know why anyone is surprised. There is absolutely nothing surprising about what's happening right now. He accused what we
We heard of him as a political figure, because he accused President Obama of being illegitimate. He accused TED crews of cheating and the twenty six
primaries in Iowa when Trump Last Iowa. He welcomed russian interference in the twenty sixteen election. He tried to cheating that election and then, as you said, when he want
at election. Do you still said it was fraudulent bbq still made up of a complete conspiracy about undocumented immigrants? Voting I mean he does this all the time he has done this for his entire career. His favorite thing to do one of his favorite things to do is to challenge the legitimacy of elections, particularly elections that he loses, but sometimes
with us. I mean I've got. It was interesting this morning, Peter Alexander NBC News said a top weight. Has eight told him the trumpets quote
very aware there is not a path to victory, but he believes this
many, two million people who voted for him quote deserve a fight. So he's battling as a form of quote theatre for them. He is putting on theatre for his voters because he knows he lost, but he wants to pretend he won
so that they still like him, walk any again say. Madame Tromp is that he is a selfless person
who would have believed himself in the past
Saint Anne in the history books in order to do right by the people who support him, I mean he is he is he is putting the country through Hell and service of his own fragile ego, which is also the story of the entire last four years. It is the story of the pandemic, it is the story of the recession, it is the story of every single one of his policies, and now it is the story of him refusing to concede post election. He is just he refused,
to acknowledge reality because his ego won't let him and he doesn't want to go down in history as a loser, which he is a loser he lost. So I want to talk about the consequences of Trump refusing to concede in the short term. Obviously, the transition becomes much harder for the bottom Harrison Ministration in the long term. We can talk about this later. There is real damage to our democracy from half the country. Believing trumps lies at the election was stolen from him severe damage, but I think what worrying people the most right now is the possibility that somehow Donald Trump could figure out a way to remain in office by overturning the results of the election through some combination of legal challenges, fraud, investigations, the actions of Republican controlled state legislatures or the actions of Republicans in Congress. I want to get into the boat. The legal strategy
then Sir, the state legislatures thing but didn't wanna check about serve your overall level of concern around twenty twenty ending with with a coup. As we always say you don't mind,
is when you thought I was worried about everything and we're gonna think we started a thousand times, though
the last week is gonna suggested there. Probably gonna have to keep that edict in place for a while longer anomaly. So I I don't
way many wanted for being worried about anything.
With this in particular, because, like that for years,
people have said this cannot happen and that it absolutely happens like
I'm cannot win this war is external action and then he does. But when you dig into the process it become
very clear, that it is nearly impossible for trumped up all us off the logistical police.
Call legal mathematical hurdles to doing it
are just so incredibly high that its? I think this is important, but that in perspective, which was
we should be concerned. Nothing is possible. Nothing is possible in the Trump era politics, but
Some things are much closer to impossible that other things in trumped still in this election from Joe Biden calmly Harris is pretty close to impossible. I think its most useful to focus not on what Trump wants to do, which is still the election. Of course he wanted to do that, but what he's actually doing and how our institutions are currently responding? I think that is probably the best way to go here. So, let's start with what can be very loosely defined as a legal strategy from the trunk campaign. Here's how, by
campaign legal adviser Bob, our describe the Trump folks are doing during a public briefing this week. The purpose of the meeting today is to put in perspective some
What you're reading and hearing about, which is noise, not really law outbreaks, not really lawsuits, then why do you think Bob Santa Covenanter
I thought you'd love Bob our. He is the bad ass. No one
ever more calmly just delivers absolute.
then Bob our aid he's exactly he's alive.
do we tell people that we have both been on many campaigns with their saw bower. He is democratic, super lawyer election lawyer. He was also a White House Council, so we we work at Babylon and he is
fact about ass layer. Yes, I work with lab I've. Actually work with Bob honestly
I'd recount before so I ve been down this road within add. There is no,
Republicans have no legal argument.
The lawyers who are making these cases are almost embarrassed to duessa ammunition, withdrew into an earthquake. The fucking case begin with bud
like it. As you said, we as they are over twelve. They are aware,
Jeanne something that there is no evidence of they can prevent pushed by the by the judges, provide no evidence of fraud
and even if they could provide evidence of fraud. The margins in these states are so large that this is in consequential, and so it like it is,
Bob, put our feet or an pirogues who must have
one hell of a source, and why does also reported the other day that a white
they told him that he does not incorrect for
the binding campaign to refer to these lawsuits as data, because they are theatrical, and so it
bunch of bullshit that I think is being
people shit at every step of the way we see no evidence of any one. Second seriously. There are a lot of really great reporters who are covering these legal proceedings, and I would really encourage everyone to pay attention to what the Trump campaign lawyers are saying in court verses. What trumps goons are saying from the safety of their twitter feeds and on news MAX and Fox and all of their safe spaces, because their very different, because when you're in court in front of a judge, you can't just spy
conspiracy bullshit without any kind of consequence on on twitter and on television and at four seasons, total landscaping, you can say whatever the fuck you want, but you can't do that in court. The small
today in court, in Arizona for sharply Gate law suit, the sequel we were on the second sharply gate lawsuit now, which I'm not having enough
in the first sharply gay. I thought it was ten gauzy
I do not make someone Snowford hurts good. So the Trump campaign lawyer in this place
eating in court. This morning said quote: we are not alleging fraud, we
seeing anyone is trying to steal the election. Rather, there were quote good faith errors in the count which would not change the outcome.
That's what the Trump campaign is sitting in court so like they have admitted in court that there actually were republican poll watchers and all these places, even though Donald Trump is saying other,
They have admitted some of their complaints were not about fraud at all, but about clerical errors in Michigan. They have promised explosive evidence of fraud and it said, gave a list of imports.
Harrison complaints and even share and hold at the Washington Post has a great story about this today. That included
loud noises and mean stairs that's what they thought that an election,
It was being too loud over the pda to the Republican
watchers? That was the fraud one of the so called shocking pieces of evidence that election fraud was committed according to
republican Pole observer in Michigan was that a democratic pole observer told the republican Paul observer go back to the suburbs, Karen,
That was the date they submitted that as evidence of election fraud. So, like look, I am actually surprise a bare over twelve like and I dont think in preparing everyone, for this don't be alarmed. If one of these cases somewhere, they may succeed right but again, there's an appeals process. There are tens of thousands of votes to overturn in some of these.
States which is far more than their even trying to overturn in most of these cases. So we have a long way to go and the fact that so many of their lawsuits back all of their houses have failed so far does not bode well for their legal strategy going forward nine days after the election,
there, that's exactly what it is like a thing.
Repair of sulphur is that in at some point the
This process tromp is going to both
complain that unelected judges study election from an impact.
On the back for confirming all of these judges. At the same time, I get us, nothing had happened and with complete tonight's, the other big.
CERN. Is this idea that was first reported by Barton Gilman in the Atlantic back in September, the Trump in his goons or pressuring Republican controlled state legislatures in states that, by one to overturn the popular vote and appoint their own slave
Pro Trump electors. Here's why? I'm not losing sleep over this theory- and I know that a lot of you have read this because a lot of you have emailed me and to you, I'm saying people in my family friends of mine, I'm hearing this all over the put here's! What about women's loosened sleep over this? Just so you all know the constitution give state legislatures the authority to point its electors in a manner that the legislature direct
ok, that's in the constitution. Every state legislature in the country has already chosen that manner by passing a law that explicitly says the winner of the popular vote gets that states electoral votes in pence.
Mania, for example, the law says that the final vote count must be certified by the Secretary of State and the final electors must be certified by the governor, both of whom are Democrats, the law that the state legislature past does not provide a role for the state legislature in selecting electors, something that the republican state Senate Majority leader in Pennsylvania has now acknowledged multiple times. He said there is not a role for us now what if he goes crazy changes his mind and the pence
when you state legislature, just breaks its own law and sends its own slave trump electors to Congress and what? If, for some insane reason, a court didn't immediately strike that down then what happens? Well. Democratic control, the House,
a majority of senators have not recognized Biden as president, but if, for some reason the House and Senate disagree tie goes to the slate of electors sent by the governor's who again or Democrats in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan,
is not going to happen. This is very very important and people are very, very worried about this and, like I said
shaming people for being worried about crazy things happening. The transparent is not the right way to handle this.
No, of course there's it there's a there's so much confusing information out there, there's Republicans lying every fucking day and then there's a you know this Atlantic article, which I contend, was overwritten that good has really freed everyone out. So I completely understand everyone's concern. You and
I think the most important fact for all of these areas. Scenarios is Joe Vines.
Very wise, not clubs. He won by a lot like
scientists. Five million Roper vote margin. Put that aside for second, he want
three to six electoral votes once Georgia's car, which were very confident will be through insects
What do you say? Hypothetically? Could people very Ferguson, Pennsylvania Ripe, has been as a place where this could possibly happen
Hypothetically say they pulled this often Pennsylvania, the republican leader, a pencil.
Yes, it was already said he does not want to do this and does not have them
to do so. If he didn't want to do about say he did that right and then what
save somehow this case,
Its waited. The Supreme Court and Pennsylvania was able to send its twenty Trump electors to the electoral college, which is meeting Miser right. So I say they did that if that were to happen
which is a tiny tiny. Like a million things have to happen. If that happened, Joe Biden still win.
because he still has more than one zero electoral votes, Tromp asked you pull this off in three stay, the same
that off in Georgia
an Pennsylvania, the job.
Install what's right.
If we were, I have, but again I get the other big reason that everyone should feel calm
is that we have the House and Nancy Policy has a role in recognising the slate of electors, and I know people are worried about the two.
Nineteen sixty nine ties an area where each state delegation gets a vote in the house and there are more republican delegations. I'm not talking about that time of the fact that, as speaker of the House, Nancy Policy has a role, as does the Senate in recognising conflicting slates of electors. If there are ever sent, if it got through, the courts can and does it get through all the courts to get to this point, but even if it did, the final role is still play.
The Democratic Control House and the Senate, and so the worst case scenario ends in acting President Nancy policy. If there is a completely crazy scenario,
and it is frozen. The worst case scenario is acting President Nancy Policy area,
Other scenario is presidential by that's: how discuss that's better, go and also again, we are taught, like you say, we're talking about fraud on a massive scale that they would need to find in nine days after the election, no fraud has been discovered. No fraud is even being alleged by some of the trunk campaign. Lawyers in these cases, and we are headed towards state,
ratification very soon, which again in the states. We need to add to seventy the Democrats control the other thing. I would just give people advice
like click, clickable links and read this
is. When you see these panicky thanks are somewhat texted me this morning, this article from Michigan, which act as Michigan
ratification processes to Republicans do Democrats. It you just three one vote to: yes, I certified and
The headline is republican on Certification board wool commit to certify the results, job
one Michigan, my hundred forty thousand votes fourteen times, Donald Trump Margin into doesn't sixteen
and the headline in the way of arrogance remind you read the story, the the person this members provocation board
whose wife is. I will say, one of the witnesses who is claiming phrases you here is to asean thanks,
but even he says he I see no evidence of fraud at his wife is a fraud witness for dropped his life or the runners companies like Ireland.
So far, I see no evidence that would overturned the results of its work
the law to worry about a lot to do like red, deepened,
to make your own decisions about how much you want to hear about this. It is everyone's point of view, but
There is a lot of panicky threads,
on twitter people being very worried, may just think. If you dig into the process, there are reasons to feel much better about how this is gonna go as
encourage people to do that before getting very worried click, the links red things
what is actually happening out there and the one like this,
quality of it. Does it muster a lot of what you're seeing people tweet about our camp or worry about, etc. On social media
I will say my confidence is not a result of a o Donald Trump and Republicans wouldn't do something bad. Of course they were
My confidence is also not a result of our institutions are so strong. I trust them implicitly
What, though, I will say on the judicial side o in twelve, is a pretty good sign that the judiciary, even a stack as it is with rightwing judges, is holding up so far. My confidence is when you get to the legislative political side. Democrats are enough important positions and all these states, and in the House of representatives that we should feel confident, which is which speech is very dangerous for the future. I should say, because if Nancy Policy was not speaker of the house- and there was a republican speaker- the house, if we do not have democratic governors in Michigan, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin,
do not have democratic secretaries of state. In some of these places, I would be a lot more worried that this scenario could come to pass and if the election was close like
Yet if this myself in Florida in two thousand with terrorism,
act. History of a partisan supreme court, stopping the vote, counting
order to elect the president of their choice. We sought happened before
just the margin of error here is so gigantic. One thing I would say that things in important fact is
there are these recounts happening people very nervous about the recounts as barbaric, appointed
these rules are mandatory because the races in Wisconsin and Georgia in particular, very close, the as but our point out his
legal reference only urge everyone to watch right. It is very
you answers Lahti questions from one of the questions from someone who is an actual wire, only human eye by
As I pointed out, there have been thirty one state recounts since the year two thousand
the average vote change in those state where it regards as fourteen thirty bucks, the key
MRS race, Joe Biden has, is
Wisconsin. I believe, as we sit here right now, and that is over ten times
and so the idea that any these risks could change the outcome of the election is something to which
there is no mathematical or historical possibility, and the Secretary of State in Georgia very
Publican not in rhino. Not a never trumper by any means said that he does not believe the recount will change the outcome of the election and also as they are setting that up. It is going to be open to the public. There will be democratic and republican poll observers to watch it. So just in case anyone is worried that when recounts happen, suddenly it's like a bunch of trump people count ballot, that's not how it's going to go.
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on Tuesday, he to questions from porters about trumps refusal to concede here is a clip. I just think it sit embarrassment, Craig Franklin, the only thing that
How can I say this tax? I think it will help the presents legacy. I think that the
whole Republican Party has been put in a position with food,
highly intimidated by the sitting. Present market restraint from Joe Biden,
was comical at times. The way that he sort of dry we put first, if it is not helpful to Donald Trump Legacy and mildly intimidating. What did you think of binds responsive catch perfect to exaggerate when you do it do not feed into them?
ethnic project com in confidence in be like
This entire race was defined between the stature gap between our toddler president and are
sure, experienced cool common lack collected President elect and keeping them
right, like there obviously real challenge in this year s entrance of them on Monday about access to classified information. The Quarterboat answered,
hey man from ahead of the age, generals,
administration to begin. They form part of the transition. Those are very real Joe Biden
I'm going to make solve those
problems by projecting panic right here he is.
winner. He looks like the winner he's acting like the weather in that's that's what people want that is complete consistent with his campaign, and why do you want? I should say to cause I've seen a lot of people say you know, Democrats should be more prepare. They should be more alarmed like get you be careful, trumps, trying to steal this and, like I just don't, I think the question is what is being more alarmed? Get you what
Goal does it achieve right, like I know, runs worry like the republican state legislatures gonna, send their own electors to Congress? Will the largest
Allow them to do that. Right, like I can send a letter
Congress saying that I have received two hundred seventy electoral votes and should be the next presidencies doesn't mean the Congress has to take it seriously right like if they, if, if every single republican state legislature decides to break the law in every single judge in the land, decides that republican legislators are allowed to break the law and Donald Trump and Republicans break every law in the countryside.
these days in office, then our option, then, is not too like find a loophole in the law to be like gotcha. We were prepared and we made sure we figured out you. You know which we stopped in the Nick of time. No, then we have to like flood the streets in protest and that the fifth that's the only option available select, it's not clear to me what Joe Biden being more alarmed more panicked or any of us being more or less
and would actually achieve at this point. Panic is never the solution to any problem.
It's not like. Why aren't you panicking you should
Never parents. What's the first thing, they tell you to do in any crisis. Don't panic, there's a lot of like don't be caught flat, footed like no one's being caught five foot at the guy's trying to steal the election by weak. We all get that, but we have a legal strategy in place. We have lawyers beating them in court. Every day we have democratic governors in place. We have Nancy policy, but, like we bit, there's no
to change about our response right now, like what is happening. The way Trop is handling this. The way Republicans are going along with it it and what I got some more think, but is deeply disturbing in quite dangerous,
level. Eighty nine unconscionable unforgettable and end its
speaks for it
very long road ahead for our country. When you have one
of our parties in our two party system are willing to burn our institutions now for political power. That is deeply dangerous. Thing is
is actually something productive. We can do about that right now in that
is to windows. You run off in Georgia and taken troll the Senate and take all which resembles power. Why that is the the
That is a constructive,
bonds to what is happening here. We could actually make a difference, and
like. So it S. Just like your total,
it is only fair and reasonable to be anxious. We sort of thought
this would all be over and do not know why we thought there was trouble just leave it be done. We can move on, but we are in it.
Some of my of this marathon and the best
waste general ideas into something that will actually help safer democracy, which is wittingly salaries, is so one other disturbing story.
This week, that may or may not have anything to do with trumps refusal to concede was his complete purge. The civilian leadership at the Department of Defense on Monday Trump fired Secretary Defence Mark Esper VIII, a tweet. He then replaced free of experts top deputies with three of his biggest goons cash Patel. As recalling what Nick and Anthony Tata, whose called President Obama a terrorist and called for John Brennan's execution, is also installed a boon of his name's Michael Ellis as General Council. At the end, I say the National Security Agency and he's being pressured by his idiot sun and a few others to fire the CIA director Gina Hassle. So why
on earth is Trump purging. All of the defence of national security people that he himself hired there is it no one knows for sure why there
We have two competing theories about what is happening with
is- and this is all from anonymous reporting from sort of national reports one
Is that true?
so much wants to get out of Afghanistan
more than the Pentagon wants it he's making all these changes. I am whites
skeptical of that one Donald, the dove
that it now. What is really take hold of my alot of people, but I am just dies in, and these
the ruins you'd set the like the good like these people as we're going. What negotiable are catch. Battelle our conspiracy theories to the nth degree
make Richard grew now, look like a man with his feet firmly planted. In reality,
The alternative theory that some people floated is. It is about finding ways to do
so. Fine, a bunch of intent
since it would somehow under
and the idea that Putin helped tromp into doesn't sixty.
which seems very possible to me very positive, all very that window, trumpets completely obsessed with that,
anything to knows because this, this
SIRI Siri is one slash three scary, Terry, which is like his Donald Trump putting people in place in Defense Department to help him stay in power. Somehow a lot of the reporting has said that these moves were discussed well before the election. So whatever Trump's motives are they were sort of pre election motives, which could be again either the Afghanistan
or the some kind of cover up theory or some kind of de classification goal, like a could be one of those things. There's been a lot reporting. This latter good reporters, some of the best reports in the business and a lot of defence department officials,
duration officials, there all sort of saying it's out of spite. It's just like Trump being
Asshole Trump, trying to exact revenge on people. The disagreed with them, all of which is very much in line with our trump, has acted for the last four years and most of his life. That's that's all we know so far. So the only reason that we can't just ignore trumps, pathetic whining is because most republican politicians are playing along with his
a deranged fantasy that voter fraud stole the election from him from House Minority leader, Kevin Mccarthy and the Senate Majority leader Mitch, Mcconnell to just about every congressional Republican except senators, Collins, Mccluskey, Romney and SAS
public incentive, James Linford said he would step in if by an is in getting the presidential daily briefing by Friday, Chuck rashly just agreed with them as well
in democratic Senator Chris Coon said this week that somebody
Europeans have been directing their congratulations to bite and threw him because they're afraid of doing it publicly one
public and aid said to the Washington Post. What is the downside
four humoring him for this little bit of time,
No one seriously thinks the results will change. He went golfing this weekend. It's not like he's plotting how to prevent Joe Biden from taking power on January twentieth.
Tweeting about filing some lawsuits. Those losses will fail and then he'll tweet. Some
about how the election was stolen and then he'll leave. Why do you think so? May republican politicians refuse to acknowledge Joe Biden as legitimate winner of the presidential election? A lot of people
all the tribute this the cowardice on behalf of the Republicans. They don't want to anger
tromp base. They dont want to get me
tweet, said about him. I think that's incorrect
cowardice suggests. You want to do the right thing, but aren't you afraid to do? This is craziness they
they are doing this, because I think it is good politics from the Michelin models when very specific. He thinks key
being the trunk base, hopped up on
Spiritual theories, racist,
security. There is in particular about stolen
elections in minority heavy cities. He thinks that
helps him keep control this.
is dangerous about that is its
about Georgia now and then asked me about twenty twenty two when this week about twenty four in
time, you get of your base more hopped out on higher dosages of racist conspiracy.
It gets worse and worse and worse, this exact
attitude is how we got in this fucking mess to begin with, where these Republicans,
they sit, they say the things a trump says: they don't push back.
the wise over struggling source of these, and then
We cannot every fuckin political in political,
or in towns. Are you now privately over drinks? Is you know? I don't really believe this, don't quote me, but it's
but we gotta say it, but the mere
and people are in on the fucking joke trumps based,
Is it no? This is all some big charade
to help turn out an election or make from former whatever you're fucking reason is so what you
during his radicalizing, your base, which then forces you in the next election to be even more radical. This is exactly how they got
from. This is exactly how the responded Bertha risen to begin with, most of them
didn't believe it right they like an army.
laid by John Vainer and Paul Ryan and Mitch Mcconnell. They kept therefore contraption
cause. I thought it help them when the twenty two elections and then never
So we thought it because that would help him in the twelve election
got on his hands and knees and beg Donald Trump for an endorsement and adapt
becomes presents a who. The fuck does this gap in the back into this, but it is deeply danger
because they're making specific political calculation that this is good for them rant over. No one in this country has more contempt for republican voters than republican. Politicians like they have created a monster and the monster is not Donald Trump monster is the Murdoch Empire and the right wing media ecosystem that is, poisoning the brains of most republican voters.
This country right now and Donald Trump, will leave the scene and they will still be rising up these voters with China.
Kennedy, and Lord Ingram and Tucker Carlsson, and now news max and now, o n and now all their fucking, you two craziness in their facebook bullshit like they will continue to get people riled up, angry and afraid, so that republican politicians can hold power and when elections and if their voters believe crate
conspiracies if their voters don't believe in things like covert and get sick and die. They do not give a shit, they don't care about their voters. They just care about staying power.
And now they have created this rightwing media fuckin monster. That is just going to keep everyone angry unafraid. What long, when Donald Trump, please love,
password doll droplets. The idea that I mean the thing is just think.
This second, oh
and induce MAX are two things that were created on the specific premise that
I'm is to say
it like it is, it is getting, it is getting worse and worse and every single one of them should be held to fucking account in the present politically and in the long term. Historically, the now
wind and it's you can blame Donald Trump and he is irresponsible. Donald Trump is a fucking disaster of a president who was responsible for the death of ten thousand Americans because he was too stupid to
ask? But ultimately, when you want to find blame for this, look right it much Mcconnell, look right at Paul Ryan, like a bright, a cover for the iranian leaders, who, theoretically should fucking, know better, but are more interested in power
then doing what is right for the country and even right for their part in the long term, because the political calculus here is thereby
Getting smaller, so we greater risk
every election to win, and so that means the political
incentives here, are headed
all the wrong directions, lest the Republicans change the way they think about things, and there is no evidence of any desire to do that.
and I would say that if you are a Democrat trying to figure out how we do even better next time, how we expand our majority, how we save vows, how he flipped
send it doesn't matter. What kind of Democrats you are whether you're a progressive democratic socialist sent
Chris, moderate somewhere in the middle of the party. If your analysis does not begin with the fact that we face a very dangerous rightwing media ecosystem, that is poisoning people's minds on a daily basis, then you're doing it wrong
We cannot have this conversation even as a party about what went wrong without recognising what is happening on the other side and that when we propose something
it will we propose a green new deal? What is fox due to it right when an activist talks about defining the police? What is Fox do when,
someone proposes something moderate, like a public options to expand health insurance. What is Fox news
right? It doesn't matter what kind of policy you propose. The Democrats, we are facing a well oiled machine that has been lying to people for a long time and it is getting far worse with social media platforms are now and like that to me that just has to be the beginning of the conversation
we did. But I do you have any ideas why I also want to go back and I wanna men, my list of people most responsible for how fucked up America is to include Mark Zuckerberg, Because-
If this happens or Facebook Fox rush
when will all that operated in a very dangerous dark corner and then in
or to become billionaires. Facebook pumped that right when propaganda into the brains of millions of Americans, the forty percent America
get their news from Facebook, a place where,
in Bonn GINO most days, has seven of the ten most engage with
wait posts on the whole thing, so think about that for a second,
there are so many conversations that we want
within the party we have on this podcast, we want
the pages the New York Times, apparently about
where we go from there.
There are some amazing stories of success in this election centre,
primarily centre under binding common here, as winning flipping Arizona?
slipping. Georgia like even though things
went so far worse than we expected and taxes still tax
its inexorable move book by women,
when the democratic direction again. But if
We do not figure out this misinformation problem. We are fucked, we're actually Fox
the region. The thing that we have to think about here is
Joe Biden was able to survive the right wing
salt on him for two reasons why he was a particularly pitch perfect candidate for this moment and
He had exponentially more resources than his opponent. That is something that is not going to happen again any times it is,
firstly of his presidency, that this massive right wing megaphone is going to be turned.
on Biden he's not gonna, be necessarily running,
hundreds of millions of dollars. It adds at that time. We get this message. Job
and we benefited in large part b.
Tromp was stupid, hear this
giant megaphone, but he was so stupid that he just used it to hit himself in the face with on a pretty close to a daily basis. That's not going to happen in the future, and we have to figure out.
How to build up a progressive.
Media infrastructure, the competes we have to figure out how to solve the Facebook prompt, because we cannot exist in a robber. Facebook is continuing to be dominated by conservatives and that in could include pressuring Facebook to be better.
But are also includes figuring out? What is the progressive way that we get into that daily
ten list of engage prosthetic, gives closer to fifty fifty
How do we do that? What is a way in which we can get our message? We can break into these information silos and these information vacuums to communicate with people, because if we do not do that, we're gonna be right back here in a few years dealing with the next version problems, unlike
to be the stupid, and I will say as much as I believe that we need to grow our own progressive media institutions, which is why we have cricket media, which is why we will wear sticking around animal and will keep growing as fast as we can. But the reason that we add crooked media have launched, vote, save America and adopt a state is because I think, as much as you need media to compete with their media. We also need and cannot replace on the ground, organizing and face to face conversations with voters and sort of building up grassroots democracy, and that has been difficult to do obviously because of the pandemic, but which, by the way, we're not even talking about right now because down terms trends,
EL the electron wherein, like literally the worst wave of the pandemic yet and people are dying all over the country and we're heading crisis mode right now, just just like one of the many things that we can't be talking about right now, because Donald Trump refused to concede the Fuckin Election Republic into helping. But anyway, what's the pit Emmett has passed. I do think Democrats need to get back to sort of grass roots organizing of the kind we ve seen in the past, especially in twenty eight in round them. It terms because I think you know
Brok? Obama was used to say this to like when he would go to Downstate Illinois or he would go to Ireland and he would meet people to face to face. They suddenly realized. He was not the caricature that they saw him on Fox NEWS, and I think Democrats, meeting Democrats running for office meeting people in person and having conversations is one antidote to those care.
there's that people say on their television screens or their funds grants you're exactly right. That I mean they're a couple elements of this one. Is we getting back to the grass roots, organizing once it say, face to face in within communities
but I think there is a big conversation we had about how we can. I talk to Sis Ii Abrams about this in every european of this package is how do we build
Sustainable progressive infrastructure with instincts right eye,
I sort of kind of the other day, a twenty four seven, three sixty five fifty,
prodigy where we are constantly organizing we're not in this feast or famine world, where we're going to send
a hundred million dollars South Carolina in a four month period to help try to elect Jimmy Harrison, and they were not going to think about it again for years. That's not the way to the right way
state what Stacy Abrams am Latasha round in. So many other people did in Georgia over a significant period of time is how you do it right.
But I was having a Texas better- has been doing that for zero,
years now, but we have to do that on the
this information front. We are now
going to solve the facebook problem or build up a megaphone.
Anywhere near the size, their problems anytime soon and the one that we have you in this thing? Is you I've? You know it
Going to you about in every forum for years is we have to.
find ways to empower are activists to be ample fires of our message
How do we allow them to be online message, organizers within their networks, right? Everyone
walking around with this phone in the pocket. With hundred you know, on average hundreds of
tax, whether that is in their contact or facebook or whatever it is how to.
do that as a party is like work at work, the Republican
job is topped up. It is trumped a Fox news to the base right
and always has to be bottom up right and we have to give the message to people and have them push for. That is where we're going to be in the short term.
and that's one thing that I hope we all have very serious conversations about how to do how to build the tools out about the infrastructure. To make that happen, because
I think that is the only way we can, because we have
we have Georgia in January. We have given
actions and twenty nineteen. We have a
was consequential congressional reasons for very long term, twenty twenty two, and so there
a lot of work to do on the table,
since good and bad from the pass election. Well, when we come back, you'll talk a lot more about all this, and especially organizing on the ground, with
the one and only Stacy Abrams Patsy America.
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based Dotcom, Stacy, Abrams, the CEO, a fair fight action currently leading and winning the fight developed. Georgia, Blue Stacy, Abrams, Boca Back Deposit America. Thank you for having me again again
web it before we get to the interview. I want to give you the opportunity to say I told you so because
last year when Turkey media was putting forward or adopt this paper
let me pick these six states that we thought were most likely to fly from red. The blue. Georgia is not one of those states. You told us, we were wrong, you made a very compelling case,
We did not add Georgia, we did you some volunteer work in Georgia, but we did not add Georgia, but you are right. We were wrong, so I
I lay myself on the mercy of the court. I will take
the highroad of shelter and say not. I
do so, but I informed you thusly
I am definitely yes well done
well. Let's talk about
the song about Georgia and what happens in this election season will what it,
what do you think the key wise to having George Weapon Georgia from Red the boy? What was the work that was done? One of the lessons we can learn from the number one at this time. I said
It travelling the country in two thousand and eleven with a twenty one, page powerpoint deck. That was my growth strategy for Georgia, from twenty eleven to twenty twenty may that actually,
twenty thousand and to twenty, because we had to go from a NATO nator to you being blue and a big part of what I would tell people is: look, I'm not going to be able to deliver successes every single cycle, but we can make pro
press? But we also think that all of the other groups that have been toiling and working for years, but never had the investment to come to scale,
or to sustain their efforts in between elections and so big part of what I ve been working on for the last decade is Bree those resources to Georgia and it would save Amerika was incredibly
full and crooked media and making sure we were able to create this through line where the money kept coming, so that you'd you
in this feast of famine cycle that hit so many red states
we only get attention when we have an exciting race that someone else cares about, which means that the ability to build.
Old relationships to build infrastructure is just incredibly tenuous. I've been privileged to be able to
raise money effectively, I'm really did beggar, and so I've spent the last year,
This building up to this ability to invest, but I want to be there
clear. This was a team effort that you,
culminated in this election, but it did not begin with this election.
Even with my gubernatorial election, my election in twenty eighteen. That campaign was about
proving it we wanted to when we should have one, but the big piece was to demonstrate to the world this method of
actually talking to every voter, engaging
three community not
driven by data to this
that you are leaving people out?
using data to find those who need to need and want to be in that. That's how you transform the electorate and that's how you build the capacity to do victory after
Victory after victory, we're still working on the second and third one. But yes
We're gonna have an opportunity to try to get these two and three pretty close. The you know a huge farthing, a fair fight, very focused on border protection. That's been a huge part of why you have referred is done. What crooked media's verified on a big part of this is voter registration of India's nearer and nearer to your heart is what the New Georgia project that you started has worked on for many many years. It's how we got just one can talk a little bit about the amazing for nutrition efforts in Georgia. You go into a sort of the heroes of those efforts. Were we started letter registration, twenty thirteen I play for
at scale and again that that's the difference. You had groups like the people's agenda, run by Helen Butler, who ve been doing this work. You had groups that eventually became groups, a delay of the George Association, Latino elected officials. They ve been doing,
Asians american advancing justice they merged with another group.
on the ground doing the work.
Is she was doing the work at scale and do
it again and again, and I want to be clear
the eight hundred thousand number that is being used. That number is the number of people who registered after twenty eighteen.
That was not all attributable to any of these groups. There are people who register simply because they went in to change their drivers licences, but what matters is that these groups,
in building relationships because getting a drive beginning getting ready,
It was like getting a driver's license and have no
teach you how to driving you can't get access to a cards are relevant, and so what so critical about these organisations is that they didn't just register
voters, they got into relationship with voters, helped new voters understand this power help them.
Navigate the challenges here. Fight came in as a part of building the infrastructure, so they could actually get to the poles. But the groups that have been doing this work
Registration, New Georgia Project, a Jay
until now, the lake
and other groups the people's agenda, those are all groups that have been doing this work. They just
I had the ability to coalesce and for us to be able to scale that effort to meet this moment.
We are now looking at two run offs in in January. For Britain
determined controlling. I send it in so much of what we care about whether Joe Biden has the ability to appoint the judges who support the cabinet. He wants past the legislation that here
and on Sunday Democrats run on how do you see those run offs playing out what it like? What what are the you to one of the first things when you do this couple months to ensure we have ever tune with those like Joe Biden adopted a wind Georgia, so first we have to reject the anachronistic notion that Democrats can't win run off in Georgia that the two that people use the most often the two senate- races, whites, valor. Ninety two,
Martin in two thousand eight, if you remember Democrats, when the presidency both of those years and then neither of those years were George,
the senators necessary for the achievement of their agendas. This is
much more can to twenty seventeen and Doug Jones? This is about coalition's being built in the south to save the Senate, and we know that can work. We know it can work because Doug Jones was able to turn up forty eight percent turnout. We know it can work because coalition's were built,
together to get this work done and we have to extraordinary candidates. We have candidates who
have their own lanes, but who are compatible
We have a shared vision, and
were actually really good at this
and so John Ass, often raphia, worn out are the essential candidates that we need. For this moment they can talk about justice, they can talk about healthcare and they do so with authenticity and credibility, but they need resources. So we created G S,
and it dot com that is a web. That's the link that will let you contribute to both us off and worn off, but it also contributes to fair
because we also know that the Republicans have not given up on voter suppression. That's why you see,
flailing around of David per day,
when Kelly left, where the two senators who called on their republican secretary of state to step down they did it because it worked, we were able to to thwart voters
russian and real meaningful ways, and they are happy about it, and so they wanted. We have to believe they're going to come back and try to reinstall it.
and reinstall. Those regimes that block voters, and so fair fight, is going to remain ever more critical to protect the right to vote, so Jason dot com is the best way to contribute the last
I'll, say this. We need volunteers, we do not need
world moving to Georgia unless you are here
plans to come and establish residency,
what we really need? The most of his to know who you are and that you're out there ready to be called on, but we ve got a lot.
campaigning to do?
We ve got to build this up, but please please, please do not make plans to come to Georgia just yet. This is
local election. That has national implications, but we ve got to do what we did before. We just start with the people start on the ground and build our way up, but we'd love your volunteers
sign up with us, and we will make sure that you get information about how to volunteer, get a fair fight that calm. We can take your information and then we'll get you plug in where we need to boost the history. Recent history, american politics, has been that when Democrats have victories and are powered in large part by people of color, Republicans doubling triple down a voter suppression. What are you and verified
looking out for what the fights to come in, but obviously in Georgia run off by down the wine, as, moreover, concerned figure out how to reduce the political power of the people. Who put you abide in common?
in office. The way we were able to mitigate voter suppression in this election included. Getting clear
rules about absentee balloting, allowing people to cure ballot
when minor mistakes are made, but their votes would have been
not otherwise, making sure that black and brown voters weren't disproportionately given proof
no ballots, ensuring that we had enough enough pulling places that were adequately resourced, ensuring that we had dropped boxes because of the weapon innovation of the postal service, making sure that people understood what was on the ballot. Those are
things that we invested in, we were also able to get legislative victories on exact match to you really support the ability of the Secretary of State to limit who could register to vote. All of these things can be undone
through legislation in January, twenty twenty one, and so our mission is going to be to make sure that republicans dont double down on the voters, oppression that we were able to make
by restoring the changes, the restoring that the rules that we are able to change
It will also point out that we were able to help direct, almost
thirty million dollars worth of resources to counties across the state, and I want to give big shot out to the centre for tech and civic life, yet taken civic life.
And see. Us me, I think, as the other organization who really invested in non partisan
building the election administration infrastructure that has to continue
We cannot allow a classification of what we have accomplished to turn into a retrenchment on voter suppression. The a lot of people are concerned about this recast
and Recounter audit that's happening and George you spend a little, but what that? What is going on there? So Georgia
oh, it was always going to have was called a risk. Limiting ought to look at the new machines to make sure that they were working the way they were supposed to.
Georgia LAW also allows for a re cat and they will also do it's called a re canvas just to make sure that people vote it where they said they bought it. Typically,
these things happen. There is a nominal change in the votes,
there will not be fourteen thousand fifty seven new votes that suddenly sprang up and make Donald Trump, the victor he lost. He lost Georgia. We won
he's it. But as someone who believes in the legal process, I say let them do it. Let them follow through the rules
We need to believe and understand it's not going to change the outcome. There is no hope,
in the rules being followed. Now what is harmful is them,
information that's being spewed by Republicans, because they are intentionally trying to give up their voters by claiming that fraud has happened. There has been no fraud, the Secretary of State says: there's no fraud, the lieutenant governor says there's no fraud. These are the real
blueskins saying this, and so we cannot allow the misinformation to swap commute
these who suddenly believed that they can't be heard if they try to vote. So the process is fine. It's the misinformation and the rhetoric. That's dangerous
When we take a step back and look at the election all across the country, obviously the defeat of Donald Trump, the election of Joe Biden, Kamel Harris, is of historic importance. Right. They dont represented a unique threat to our democracy, our way of life, our ability to spend on every
for the Democratic Party lower down the ballot? There was some very disturbing science winds. We thought we were going out. We didn't have we didn't flip Senate seats in states that Donald Trump won
what are some of the broader lessons you take from the election writ large Long Donald Trump. Is he a unique
Cancer and our nation, and luckily enough of us, believed that it needed to be exercised that we did
but we are divided nation, and that was maiden
manifest because of Donald Trump, but it wasn't created by Donald Trump, the real,
challenges about whether access to healthcare is a right or a privilege. That argument continues to rage the real
conversation about how we invest in our economy to help not only the
who are wealthy, get wealthier and help them
who were middle or lower working class actually gained access. Those are real debates were having this nation, the question of just
being something that should be guaranteed. That's a real converse.
and that is a real debate and our nation,
and so we shouldn't be so sanguine that we think, because we were able to get rid of this grotesque example of bad, that the bad doesn't continue in just more palatable forms. Our responsibility is not to read into this that we have the wholesale change
HU. We are. We just have to do a better job of getting those who share our values to participate. We see
voter increase yes, but we have more opportunity out there and we ve got to be intentional about cultivating that opportunity, not just during presidential elections, but we,
start with city and county elections that are coming up next year we have state ledge
Is there any happening next year and in twenty two? Those are all opportunities:
to continue to move the pendulum in our direction, because if we start pulling it,
going to swing the other way, and we are going to be devastated by Richard
Georgia and discuss we did run the country were powered by millions of people who got involved in politics for the very first time after Donald Trump? What is you like? What would you say to people to help? Keep them involve the help the people who got involved because it down or trouble stay involved now that he is on his way out that was parliament saying before, which is vital
is a symptom. He was not the disease, he was just the symptom on steroids and in technicolor. We need
stay involve because what he was trying to do. They will do quietly through your school board. They will do quietly through
your City council, when zoning laws are made that allow poor communities and communities of color to be saddled with chemical plants. That's Donald Trump, on a local level when there is a disinvestment in your local schools. In the midst of covert
that's Donald Trump at the local level, so we have to stop focusing on his now fading example in.
Focus on the real people who are making these choices, because when we allied local elections, when we skip over those new
lines on the ballot? What we are saying is, you have permission to be just like Donald Trump, only quieter, but the effect is just as devastating and just as permanent,
people after that, the victory in Georgia, people on Twitter
we were about how Stacy Abrams should be in charge of that he has ever to the Democratic Party. I'm not gonna. Ask about any of that, but what do you think the the top,
we're three things. A democratic party should do to take the success we
in Georgia and exported to states that are on the cusp of it: Texas.
this way. North Carolina one has been on the carpet for very long time so,
Caroline. How do we sort of build the sustainable, progressive infrastructure that you all
built in Georgia and other parts of the country. So this is the shameless pod. For my boy,
Our time is now power purpose in the fight for a fair America. So the first half of the book. I talk about voter suppression of their engagement, but the second half of the book is exactly that:
we have a demographic revolution. That is not destiny, it is opportunity
have the one acknowledged that identity politics works for us in its this
when you say you can see someone's community and understand the challenges they face and that those challenges, maybe
different than your own. That's identity, politics, and that's why people vote number
Do we have to have sustainable, consistent investment that doesn't,
Rely on political candidates,
in saying we said we think you're county or your state matters this year. There has to be consistent, investment threw out and it has to be your round and has to be diffuse. I am proud of the work that we do a fair fight affair.
It is not the only group doing good work into part of what we are doing in this run off.
since we're moving money to other groups too, that we know what rate they won't float high enough in the ether to get their own attention, so we're gonna make sure they get the resources they need and the number three we have to wash rents and repeat: this is a process. This is not enough.
We are all focused on you, Ding Dong, the which is dead and the White House
but the reality is, we ve had to do this again and again election after election for a decade, it's going to take time. Patience is hard, but patients met with investment, and with mission is how we get the change we need and how we make it as permanent exchange can be in politics.
Stacy Abrams. Thank you. So much for being with us. Congratulations on everything you have done in Georgia. We very much look forward to working with you to win these to run off and continue to turn Georgia and there s this country. But thank you
thanks to Stacey Abrams for joining us. Today. Everyone go to save America, Complex Georgia, adopt Georgia and, let's get to work, I got by ruin
hot save America is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller, its mixing edited by
the child file settlement is our sounded. Generic names.
How do you spell Maitre, Katie, Long, Roman, Papadimitriou, Caroline Ruston and Justine? How for production support into our digital team, Elijah, cone, NARA, Melkonian Tail Freed and Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes is videos every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-11-13.