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know what's happening by Thursday, and I know now we're. According these early anything could have happened. Cricket I welcome the pod. Save America, I'm John Bathroom Andean Pfeiffer, on the planet we'll be talking to Arizona representative Reuben Guy ago about the next steps on immigration in Congress. Also on today we have a brand new episode of keep. It is out iron. The crew talk about the Oscar nominations is various as always. Job love. It is not in the office today, he's left for his tore going to Seattle in Portland. Very exciting tomorrow we have a new episode of pod, save the world Tommy's talking to Evan Business of the New Yorker about Jared cushioned her in China, China seeing Jared Commissioner as their useful it

it's. How could they not so that it can be an exciting someone can get some use out of that idiot fervour oversee we develop with her. There still tickets available. There are some tickets available to Phoenix fresh own Phoenix in February, but that's going fast and then there are plenty of tickets available for LAS Vegas for the shown Vegas. So it's one of the one of the ones that hasn't sold out yet said: go by air tickets, didn't see us in Vegas and then you can go down. Leavings financing I like. What is there to do it knighted Vegas had a political party catch up yeah exactly at an hour which will promise to be somewhat exciting. Ok, okay! So, let's start with what comes next on immigration and the government funding

those, then I don't know if you hurt, but there are some ranting on Mondays pod about the deal had opened the government. We ve now had a few days to merit it on this. What are your thoughts we haven't heard the Dan Pfeiffer take on all of us. Well, I would say first, I didn't think you guys ranted. I thought it was actually a good. It was a really great conversation, both thoughtful and fair, and you had to do it like four minutes after they cut the deal. So you know- and I think I agree with just about everything you guy Said- might take a ways Be that the Democrats made a strategic mistake right earner. They they the right strategy that is executed poorly guess, be better to say it s. What I mean by that is, if it was from the beginning that they could not hold the red, say, Democrats that was never going to happen, then they should have made that clear that that was not a viable strategic option once it

but that's not what they did right. You part of veto. We knew this when we had been about most in the White House is a lot of. It is expectation. Managing the right and Democrats had a bad hand from the beginning. There is no doubt about that. They you have a president, who is natural instinct, is white nationalism, but on Sundays he is pro immigration, and can it cut a deal wish to ask you? and then have John Kelly uncut to deal for him. You have Paul Ryan, who is trying to continue to court the votes of avowed racists like Steve King and you have Mitchell who, for all of his in numerous, was can hold his people pretty well and there was a tough deal but thing. Is we don't know whether what worked or not because they quit too soon and if you ramp everyone off to fight, and then you wave the

flag a surrender before breakfast on Saturday and open it up again before lunch time on Monday, and that's not enough to know and that that is a mistake, because what you end up in this sweet spot of you have made no one happy. You ve, angered both sides and then that that is to say now. Having said I'd, say three things, one. The consequences of that are not as cataclysmic as people would say. No one's gonna. Remember this end in November, a part of his who is so great that if you went for a walk, you could amiss to the spin from some democratic on how this was a win over states the case, but it is true that taking ship off the table is helpful. And getting six year for funding for chip gray. In that we absent Dhaka. We would have if that, if, if Dhaka personality what that would have been seen as a real progressive win for Democrats and the third thing is we?

you said this message on, I thought very well. The Monday pod was, we cannot be all or nothing with democratic leaders right the Democrats in Congress. We are not in politics because we love the people who are in office. We may loved them, but that's not the reason, though there they are instruments to put in place the policies that we want and when they fail and thereby vendible instruments. Yes, exactly persuadable pressure on em, right, right and So yes, the basis. Ever reason be disappointed and how this played out by We also need to re elect a lot of these people and we end. If people stay home, then there will be no solution. Any of the problems we care about

the thing is, I am sympathetic to Senator shimmer in the sense that it's really hard. It mean he, but he was in a very tough spot. I wish they would have stayed a longer, but ultimately he can't make Heidi hide Camp or Joe Mansion felt do what he wants to do. It's not the house right, and so he went. He was in its opposition bad hand which she played it better, but all we can do now is wake up and fight and put pressure, Republicans and Democrats to solve this problem, because the clock is ticking. Yes, oh I've out of it as a think about this, to one point is no matter whose fault it is or who people end up blaming, even if they all blame Trump and the Republicans. It is true that then, the Democratic Party and Democrats cannot really allow this government to be shut down indefinitely, because people that we care about won't get the services they need, and

That's a tough thing you know like you could have all these polls say the trumps at fault for shutdown, Republicans or fall stuff like that, but this thing goes on for two weeks three weeks four weeks and the Republicans don't budge suddenly we're dealing with you know that the very people that we care about you know now get seniors, not getting meals on wheels all these services. So that's a tough thing to keep in mind so My belief had always been, of course it doesn't last that long that at some point, Donald Trump feels like he must get a deal. And so did the Republicans in Congress and they cave or at least, if you bring out concessions from that. This can never be a shutdown in depth. The question is: how long do you needed to go for Republicans to feel the pressure now that point. I do think it just it didn't go long enough, and I think one of the big problems for Democrats was. I've always believed you. You can't win an argument without me

and Democrats never made the shutdown about what the shutdown was about, which is immigration? Someone said to me are republic in front of As soon as I saw the Democrats coming out with statements that they were voting against this are not because of Dhaka, but because they didn't, like short term, see hours or they had this problem, or that unrelated problem is like, I knew they were gonna cave, because a lot of them are very afraid to make this fight about the dreamers and its historic. What you just said like if they were afraid at the outset, to make this fight about the dreamers mission of picked the fight because their heart wasn't in it, but you have to make clear what it was You don't believe in government shutdowns if you believe that governments gardens are just bad, no matter whose fault they are then go. Make that argument.

Say: that's why you're not voting for one. If you do want to have this fight, and you do believe that a temporary shutdown is worth the cost that comes with it. If you secure protection for the dreamers, then go make that fight go make that argument and then go pick the fight, but you gotta pick, one you can just vote and then suddenly like listen to all the pundits in DC and get scared. I do also think there are reasons to believe the Democrats could have succeeded if they held out a little longer. Over the weekend, we saw that Whitehouse AIDS were saying that tromp was getting itchy to make a deal, that he felt pressure that he was worried that he didn't like all the attacks whose gettin, for you know having the government shut down right. For they voted. Jeff flake was telling reporters that Mcconnell should make a more ironclad promise to Democrats before he said yes or even Jeff Lake was there. You know like even held out another day. Maybe Mcconnell would have had a stronger promise and then, of course like theirs as other line of argument that

if they held out longer, you know the issue of dreamers would have become more polarized and dreams would have become less popular, but no evidence there's that out and no polling evidence bears that out. Quinnapin Paul said that you know forty nine percent of people blame Trump and the Republicans for the shut down. Only thirty two percent democrats- it was forty eight twenty eight in PPP, Fifty two forty three and political morning consult and then interesting. Number. There was asked whether the dock, a fight was worth a government shut down. There was a forty to forty two split at the very beginning after the government shut down that went to forty seven thirty, eight, who said it was worth shredding down over Dhaka and, of course, in that same pull? Seventy five percent said they'd support a plan to let the dreamers remain here, legally, only eighteen percent down, so the polling was on the Democrats side too, and you know like I said I don't think they should have that you can't hold out forever. But you know who

What who knows what would happen if we get to the end of the week? Trump wanted to go to Davos and play golf, and we still have a deal. Who knows we might again- and I would say one thing on the polling is you did something that most reporters and apparently some Democrat senators did not do, which is so they would you these poles. It ask three questions who do blame president tromp congressional Republicans congressional Democrats in the polls would come in something like Thirty one percent would blame congressional Democrats, which is basically the Trump base, and then I would say twenty percent would, when corruption Republicans and thirty percent would be Trump Democrats are winning that fight that his not Democrats or taking blame for their actually winning. You have to combine the two numbers of the two Republicans in and out there.

A headline think him up public blames, robins and emigrants. Well, that's a stupid. Have I invite is apparently reporter many reporters. Not all many adds some number of democratic senators can add two numbers. They end up in a situation which is well because we saw this over the weekend. All the reporters in D C or most many other poisoned DC. They bought their public and spend that this was like all the Democrats. Alton, you know dark eyed should cave they all bought it. So there have lines reflected that puts a hits, a hustle, that one of the problems is: don't net UNICEF, the shy away from it right you did, you are making a choice,

right it. It is true and should be reflected in reporting. The Democrats and Republicans shut the government down together. Yes, and that some Democrats voted against that right. It was. It is actually a man bites dog story when Democrats and Republicans vote together on a major issue like this, and I should, but if I'm sorry, but if you decide as a party that you were going to temporarily shut the government down to fight for something just say that and don't pant leg it'd that that was the mistake, is that you, like the great Hashtag war of early twenty eighteen between, has actually were shut down. Hashtag from Shall yet Democrats, a majority of Democrats were willing to temporarily shut down the government to fight for something they care about. Now you may not win that fight in the short term, but you're like it. If you were to rank the scenarios, fighting and winning is best fighting a losing is probably second best. Third, would

making a decision to find another day. The worst choice would be to fake fight for a weekend, and that was the choice, and that was unfair but we gotta just ourselves off, get back in the game and we'll know whether this was the right decision. In the wrong decision or it didn't really matter in the end. Based on what comes of the discussions around back and if we get a legislative solution, which I think is a launch out that if we do, then they made the right decision and it all worked out, We don't laughter, walked addressed that at some point. You know- and I have heard reports that it's not that in some Democrat, some democratic centres have said this- that they dont trust Mitch Mcconnell at all, they figure Macao as a liar, but they do trust. Some of the report.

Kids in the Senate, who have been more moderate on immigration and who are tired of not getting anything done in the Senate, because Donald Trump as president and Paul Ryan and his crazy caucus are holding every one hostage in the house and so that there is some genuine feeling on behalf somebody senators that they support protecting the dreamers and they want to get something out of a Senate. Now that could be bullshit, although your motion could be pushing them, so you get away and see. But you know there does seem to be some hope that you might get something out of the Senate. So, let's talk about what's next yesterday Donald Trump said he's open to a path to citizenship: after a ten to twelve years for the dreamers which, oddly enough, is exactly the provision in the grand Durban bill that he originally race and then rejected, and now I guess he's back to it, though it has also announced on Monday, they be releasing a framework of what Trump wants and a deal that includes

letting the Dreamer stay and then path to citizenship, as he just mentioned, twenty five billion dollars for a border wall eliminated the diversity lottery and curbing family based immigration, all of which are also in Graham Durban, bill in some way protein eyes. Extreme is the White House will want. Meanwhile, democratic side, Chuck shoes, rescinded. His offer to help fund Trump's Wall and Senate Democrats have said they are willing to first negotiate a long term budget deal by the next funding deadline on February, eighth and then move on to protecting the dreamers and immigration like Mcconnell promised so Dan. What did the shutdown teach us about? What our strategy should be in the coming weeks? This is a really tough question.

Cause, there are a couple elements to this, which is why, in the White House has already said, like moments like tiny heckuva that left the floor of the Senate by it and no one else, but our statements- and I wasn't gonna sign derby ran right, it's not clear that the republic you could get any bill through does not include something that can be called. Heading four, the wall right and I'm a little concerned about tumors approach here, because he put that on the table in his Friday negotiations with tromp, and he took heat from the base on that he did. And now he's undone that which makes it can it be that much harder to put funding for the wall back on the table. If that is part of a deal, and

Why do you think shimmered? Why do you think he took it back off the table? I still haven't been able to figure this out. Tumors re smart, so he may have a plan that he probably has a plan here. It's not evident to me why that plane is yet, but I hope it wasn't just responsive to criticism from the left, because one taken it like if she were has decided, as he did on Friday, that the only that he is willing to give tromp funding for the wall in order to help the dreamers and solve some other immigration issues. Then stick to that position and go make the case to the base as to why that's the right decision to do and what you expect and demand in return for that it seems like it. So it's a step backwards, and by taking off putting on the table taking off the table, it just makes ebbing. It makes things harder,

my personal view, as I wish there was no wall. I understand why people hate the wall. I also be totally willing to put money somebody in for the wall in order to to prevent these eight hundred thousand people from being deported from this country in the coming weeks, and then I don't wanna tell our problem. France and ITALY to nor keeps us to himself, but take the house back in defined that motherfucker. Why he closed his eyes like given given away now and then take it away. They can't pull the wool over, well as a whole, and they seem to know that I mean I think John Corn and restaurant with saying something like they want to put the money in some trust because They know full well that if the money is whether authorize, whether whatever it is it is I'm appropriated or authorized. If Democrats take the Congress back, there can be. No wall ended the nightingale to build their they're gonna, build it by November twenty eighteenth, so they know that it could be well. So I my guess on tumor and can be

totally wrong. It's just me guessing is he knows that what Donald Trump wants more than anything in this whole deal is the wall and sure enough. When tumor took it off the table, Trump tweeted You should know that without a wall, there's no Dhaka, well opposite of. That is true, which is with no doubt others no wall, and so I think consumers, mine, he's thinking the least bad of all things a trump wants. Is the wall like? I think that the most dangerous thing that Trump and Stephen Miller and the White House asking for are these curbs on family immigration, family reunification, because now we're not talking about illegal immigration anymore, we're not talking about keeping undocumented people out of his countrymen, a tongue, but what to do, but the undocumented people who are here in this country. Family migration is saying that people who are here

grants will become, citizens can sponsor their families to also come over here legally and become citizens legally and the White House and Stephen Miller and all their white nationalist friends. They want to curb this kind of immigration and that to me as much different, then taking on illegal immigration, that's tat, you know, and so shimmer I'm wondering if humor thinking like if he can just make this in trumps, mind a one for one deal. You know we get protecting the dreamers and you get border security funding and we don't have other things involved in this. Then maybe it's a win. I don't know. I think it might be a little bit has to do with like trump psychology or something, but I don't know you're dead. Maybe right! I do think there is a. I think, potential strategic error to heading down this Durban Grand path which is do remember and twenty twelve when all of the Bush tax cuts were set to expire at the end of that year. Yes- and there is a big debate about it- and we too,

the position that we should extend immediately extend the tax cuts for the middle class right now, because I was the one thing everyone agreed on I will just Democrats agreed on that Democrats. Rogue is disagreed on extending the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and I've been democratically be making the argument. We all three on the dreamers Paul Ryan, which Mcconnell Donald Trump Nancy Policy checks For everyone agrees, we should help the drivers and there is a looming deadline there. Why can't we just come up with agreement for that it may be the trade ends up being that, if you give us that will give you want money, you can feel better about it, but that should be the army. May it's the most popular part of emigration, discussion and comprehensive immigration. Reform is very heart. It hasn't happened for almost two decades. It We ve been working for two decades. We ve been neutering around the same ideas since George Bush was president and

trying to solve that in a time, which you have white now lists in leadership positions that my house a present who does not have the attention span or the intellectual accuracy understand workers in the bill? And yours, tearing down the barrel of an election, makes it very hard. So if the only way to help the dreamers is to solve most of the prophet try clinical itself most of the problems from immigration that both parties see and disagree on them? I can solve the problem by March. It's just it is not going to happen. If the Republicans in twenty thirteen we know we there is a bipartisan immigration will get sixty eight votes Allison. What have the dreamers, what it's all of the issues that are being talked about here and at that point in Time John Banner was supportive of that approach. Right Hall Ryan used to call Brok Obama all the time and try to get him to work with them on a bipartisan compromise, but they were too scared to put that by personal before the house, and that was back when Republicans

tried to pretend they weren't racist. They haven't even braced their inner racist. It gets even harder. Yes, oh what what's area do you think Paul Ryan, puts a compromise bill on the floor. It seems like that's what we should be focused on and that's the crux of this whole problem right now that you could see a path where a bipartisan immigration bill gets out of the Senate with is sick He plus foots that's pretty favourable that we may have to you no compromise on some things, but pretty much can be a good bill and then the question is, you know: do you get trumped sign off on that and then what happens with Ryan? It seems to me that the only hope of passing some

is if you pass out of the Senate Trump signs on and then the only person standing between you know the dreamers and being able to be here legally is Paul, Ryan and then that's enormous pressure on him and then maybe he caves or puts it on the floor whatever, but I dont know that seems to me the only path. I think it's that, and that is why the Democrats agreeing potentially green to a long term funding bill. Separating apart from helping the dreamers, it's almost impossible to see Paul Ryan. Doing that for two reasons: wine he is a man of zero courage. Right is a spineless human being and so he is not go even though he is likely to quit his job. A loser It is job at the end of the next. You know in a year, but he will not be fired from his job in order helping people, because his job to cure is more important than the family secured if eight thousand merit, in his view at the other reason is that is just

is a long long held historic dips dispute between the house in the Senate, in others that old, saying that old story about a new Congress men come into town and saying to the speaker, does like an old Joe Biden story, I'm pretty sure It's ok, maidens, referring to the the other party ass the other adversaries and the speaker saying, our adversaries do, the other party or Trevor Series or in the Senate something that had. I would I have your lying on yarn. What I've just spun there? That's cried out like a like their economies, people who are even older than I organised actually the shit out of me on Twitter over the skies, there's like of their real names attached to the story by thought exciting, but far too, but the hay But the point is like Paul Ryan I'll say that bill. He will be forced to say this bill, Durban grandma.

Ever would ever form it takes, is dead in the house right and therefore we're gonna through regular order right this bill and that's gonna take longer than two march. So if you don't have the the carrots and sticks of the shut down and the military funding that defence funding that the appropriate or in the house want, it gives very hard, which is why we should be trying to carve doc off of all the other stuff, and maybe, if you hadn't preparations, will that we can put the wall funding it, and so I think a strategy depends on the Senate passing a bipartisan clause. I conference immigration Reform Bill is not a solution to the challenge anywhere along unless tromp is willing to as part of that process. Diffrent delay implementation of his doc order right, but even then that doesn't help the people whose to whose Doc assassin

spiralling in the interim, because then yeah without status in fear of deportation. Also, we should say that that you are further complicating. This whole issue is the fact that a court has issued a stay on the Dhaka order and his base of the federal government actually accepting Dhaka renewals right now. So if your work permit is, if expired, you can now apply for another work permit again, even though it was temporarily you know eliminated so, and also this whole March fifth deadline is just like an imaginary deadline. The trump made up because a whole bunch of people's work. Have already expired, and there are already I have lost their protection, so it's very complicated, like some people could be replying for permits right now. It's unclear what happens in March, marched unclear if Trump is legally able to extend this himself right, because his own administration said that Congress needs a fix it themselves so as a real fucking mess. But I'll tell you, like the stakes remain very high and, like I think, the

The biggest lies told recently was by the Secretary of Homeland Security, who said: oh, you know dreamers one be a priority for deportation for ice while ices and acting like that, the deportation forces up there are not acting like that. They were only deporting criminals there. There deporting all kinds of people have never done anything wrong in just yesterday we saw the Justice Department is threatening to subpoena officials in cities that refuse to turn their police forces into deportation forces known as sanctuary cities, but that's actually when it is its asking, the police and local city to become deportation forces, and we also saw that ice is detaining in deporting immigration activists. So the very people who are speaking out on behalf of dreamers, the people were fighting for immigration reform if they happen to be in document it. Ices looking up lists and finding them and deported which is unbelievable. So the idea that they're not gonna go after dreamers whose information they have it seems crazy. So what do you think that,

for people who are like a. How can I help right now? Who do I call? What do I do? You know my democratic senator out to reopen the government in our is all hope lost. What would you think we're wish? People apply pressure in the next couple weeks, both democratic leaders in senators, it doesn't have to be angry, our leaders,

our centres are not traders will there is. There is a disagreement on approach here, because they want to help the dreamers, but we should people should let them know how important this is that this is something that is going to impact, not just whether they're going to vote in the fall by how activated they're gonna be. Are they gonna knock on doors are being registered? Voters? Are they gonna make calls in? Should let people know that, and also Republicans, both members of Congress House members and senators who were in tough races? There are a lot of republicans the remaining five or the crooked seven. This is a huge issue for them. We should put pressure on them and get them to put pressure on Paul Ryan and put pressure on Jeff Lake ends, Dean, Heller and people like that in states that where

could be on the ballot. Will this will matter to voters in the forest like all we can do is double down and efforts here we have a shitty hand, were playing with very should hand we are in the minority and there's only so much you can do, and we are now reaching for the most unusual of tactics to try to fight for this thing and it's a longshot because we're not in power and the best solution is to win and twenty eighteen. But for now all we can do is exert pressure on our Congress, people and our representatives and try to push them to do the right thing, and we should continue to do that for the next several weeks and not let up if we win that's great and if we don't, then at least we can say we fought as hard as we did. Party merges brides by Harry's Harry's, take better physical care of yourself, Weir's, specifically physical care. How Parrys products have one cow

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Tell me about been saying no to Democrats Cave because mansion threatened not to run. I don't quite know if they're reporting bears that out, but it certainly seems like he was pretty annoyed, but I think it raises a question. What's the challenge of having a party where Democrats need senators from West Virginia? What does that do to calculations and and strategies the Democrats pursue feed. So the response to this was a lot of progressive outrage at Germanic about this and that's fair right. I mean whether the report is true or not, but just outrage that he voted away. You didn't want right, but I think we have to remember that every state, whether your California in New York or Wyoming, you get to senators and if Democrats want to have

not just fifty one senators, but if we ever gonna get to the to the days of sixty, we need senators from states that are much more conservative than California in New York. When we had sixty senators in briefly in two thousand and nine two thousand and ten, we had senators and North Dakota Indiana West Virginia. We two centres from US return, your back that we had to senators and worth the coda and with that comes, the need to have people with different weights lay different viewpoints, but we have to look before we decide to drum these people out of the party. We have to look at their full body of work like Joe Mansion, maybe closer to Susan Collins. Any is to me on a whole host of issues, but he also vote say vs IE eight. He voted against Betsy Divorce and a whole host of Trump nominees in an and how to get to ask a lot of yet vote against. Ask us in so Windsor

let us see whether they be progressive, Orkut or moderate or conservative by nature do something and upset you. Let them know that, but we we can't live in a world where we will not have fifty ones senators if we at least not in the end, it happened in our future. If our view is, if you vote one time the wrong way, Renault Drum you out of the party and if he is Joe Mansion had voted for the tax cuts WAR repealing easier and in voted. We know to reopen the government the situation, yet maybe it's not worth having him and we're gonna go figure something else out, but his body of work also worth remembering. Also remember. The Joe Mansion was elite sponsor of the man at universal background. Bill in TWAIN, thirteen after new town at which was a sign of of great political courage on his part from West Virginia, and so special after that amazing that add, he ran where he shut the climate change the duchess leg. If Europe

Can you imagine you owe them West Virginia? Let him know that for sure, but we can also can't drawn people the party when they do one Enron. But I guess it's your mansion or republican. That is, where we're living right now, that may not be true. We can organise and build up the movement, oppressive move in a West Virginia over years, but right now, when it, when the fights for fifty one votes in January, We maintain germanic bitter is gonna, be one is fifty one votes or private. I can get there well the point you just made resonances like if there are a bunch of progressive and West Virginia who want a more progressive alternative to Joe Mansion, go for it organised on the ground, get people to grief, you find a candidate who can win a general action could be Joe Mansion, and you know do what people do on the great you organize you get your candidate, you try to kill It's your neighbors, you scared of the Poles and yet ass the incumbent. If anyone a good race like this whole idea that, like you, could show me

Can, I have the party like no one in Washington is keeping Joe Manchin in the part of your kicking him out of the party like it's up to voters. On the ground and actors on the ground to figure out who they want to represent them. And who they believe who can when they can also represent them. You know, and so it sort of like yeah until until we get that great progressive me men in West Virginia. This is who we have and he's with us on more issues. The night in the most important vote of saint, as yesterday was important vote. Any democratic senator can cast is for the majority leader, and if Joe Manchin is going to vote for Chuck Schumer is majority leader. If the Democrats take back the Senate in twenty eighteen, that gives Schumer the Denver a whole lot more power than they have right now to do a lot of good, Do not worry. I do not have to use tactics like we ve been using less always because now in power, because Chuck tumor earned the votes of people like Joe,

gin and hiding I'd camp and all these much more conservative senators, then the Caucasus, a hall. So that's important to ok, was about the Miller invested. Even in the conspiracy to undermine the Mahler investigation. Two twin stories here yesterday Trump said he would love to talk to Quote- would love to talk under oath to bomb Mahler. A few minutes later trumps lawyers have that the president was quote speaking horridly before departing, for it other can only intended to emphasise that he is willing to meet with Mahler. No arrangements have been worked out yet. Can I make an announcement here today? Please do I too, and enthusiastically willing to pay my taxes this year, trumps We want to do something that mother can come. Tell him to do legally right. So welcome to the party also, I would say the undergrowth thing is: I don't think they do this intentionally, but it is a smart because truncates in June,

is much trouble. Basically, if he wisely Mahler under oath or not under us right, it sort of yeah. It's the same thing. It's like a fake love. It was being asserted. That was a good point. It seems like the white lawyers and some in summit trumps advisors are more concerned about Trump, actually telling the truth utter both to lower than they are hard to him? Why? Because you know have we seen trump and in past depositions he's much. You know and love was pointing this out, he's much different and he is on twitter and public like he does he desert it? Have the mental capacity still to know that he should be or guarded and careful when he's under oath and testifying. But then that raises the question: what will he say when he's telling the truth, or at least trying to tell the truth and how much trouble could that

at him and because the public agree CNN did Nepal. Seventy nine percent of the american people say that Trump should testify. That includes forty one percent of Republicans, some their stories here and b c in the washing impose they ve all reported that mothers narrowing and on obstruction of justice. That's why he wants to talk to tramp tramp may have obstructed justice both in his dealings with Michael Flynn and his co me firing and, of course, telling call me to please let Flint go we have Sally Yeats and a bunch of other Dio J officials and other intelligence and government officials who are cooperating with Mahler. Now, on this case, we have re gates. Paul made efforts. Partner is possibly negotiating a plea deal, so he also may be cooperating. We have more evidence of trumps potential obstruction, herbs,

action like activity, apparently after firing Jim call me for not being loyal and not dropping the rush. Investigation Trump asked the new acting FBI director Andrew Mikhail, who he voted for in twenty sixteen, that doesn't seem great before, namely him acting director was witnessed. It was a litmus test, was another loyalty test, and then we learn from axioms the FBI. Rector, the current FBI director, Christopher RE, threaten to resign when Jeff sessions pushed him to fire Andrew. My cape, my God, is this. What's going on here is coming to an end. This is coming to a conclusion here. What would you think in a daze feel we're running out of people for Mahler Interview? Yes, like trumpet tromp comes at the end, some of our friends by Cathy Rumbler and others who are fairer for want of council. Cathy runway, who are from our public prosecutors, can probably tells otherwise

my sense of these things comes entirely from television, but it feels like you would come to tromp at the end of the process or near the end of the process yeah when she than everyone else like you have interviewed everyone else right and be able to test this egg now trunk could say things in that interview that aids to opens up further avenues of investigation for sure by robbing Kosovo to the end to the beginning. At this point- and it raises the question that where this could possibly or maybe even likely end is some sort of finding, and it's not an under that. Malta has said what he, how he will dispense with the results of investigations can started that inefficacy message. Clint did report to Congress, his goal being to give them the foundation for an impatient charge. I dont know what mother were Dubell at say. He follows the Canst our path work. He could come forward with a report that does not prove beyond

shadow of a doubt or beyond reasonable doubt collusion as we understand it, like you had a bunch of willing idiots who were both in general terms, family on the fringes, their campaign, who were communicating with people but not direct like smoking, gun evidence a conclusion, but a very strong recommendation. Obstruction of justice. So you we have starting an investigation into a crime that is not yet proven, and the question is what is the political and legal reaction to that scenarios in thinking through? That is probably important, because that that may be well we're facing was, although with a political reaction, would be at least from trumps. I there are deciding to make the argument if its obstruction of justice and Trump Sabbath. Briefly yesterday, he said it's not obstructing its fighting back and when he means by fighting back is all he was doing to try to quash this investigation and to stop Commie was,

because there was a deep state plot to help Hillary Clinton until the election to her and undermine Donald Trump during the campaign in during his presidency- and this is the case- Trump is building. The White House is building in all of his very well in allies in the Republican Congress in the republican media are building as well. So that brings us to hashtag release the memo witches every time there is another conspiracy coming from Republicans about this investigation, I think to myself no fucking way? The last conspiracy was the dumbest fucking conspiracy. I've ever heard. How can this one top it again, but they ve done it again. Dan, they ve done it again. So, for those who don't know Trump Henchmen Devon newness has conjured up. Of that reveals? Apparently a conspiracy by the other administration and the FBI to elect Hilary, a conspiracy to culminate in a few weeks for the election when the FBI director released

than announced he was reopening and investigation into Hilary emails. That's the conspiracy. We have I was there was a secret society trying to elect Trump, but they failed was what the fuck like No, if you need to know any more details of this conspiracy other than it is predicated on the fact that the FBI tried to electoral trumpets, president and collected ends and conspire for months and months and months, and then let him when and did nothing. It is important to remember that we are dealing with a bottomless pit of idiocy bad faith and it is there at stake. Ron Johnson, for example. Let's say who wrongly Ivan common sense, Senator Brok, Rib conservative from Wisconsin, yet no end

all of our public and friends like em, he's just a rip: Nother republican business man who loves tax cuts for the rich and hate subsidize healthcare, that's RON, Johnson, just straight shooter. Otherwise, when IRAN Johnson do recently John Wrong John, decided to it so hard to even tell the story he got. He goes on Fox news. He hasn't view with bread bare and he starts talking about the text messages. The text messages between two FBI agents, used to be on mothers team there not anymore, they were having an extramarital affair with each other, and so they texted each other about their lives and the investigation and blah blah blah and one of the texts RON Johnson claims so

that they were part of a secret society, there were meeting off cited the FBI to plot against Trump. So he basically tells bread bear that there is some secret society of FBI agents, part of the deep state that wants to you, know, overthrow Donald Trump and undermine as presidency, another guy stuff. So finally, so ABC gets the text message and it's a stand alone. Text message that this FBI, agent page sent and basically it says, is the day after Trump wins it says. Are you even going to give out your calendars seems kind of depressing? Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society, it seems to me that the first rule of having a secret society, the Fbi- is not to call it the secret society, but I don't know how you feel about that is like that's terrible upset. You needed a different names like the launch glutton, for something like a coffee clash,

clutched deposed the president's like the first relate my love. You know, like we about it, because foxes, ridiculous ranch It is his ass, he ridiculous human being by it. We should put a very fine point on this. This a United States, Senator who goes on national television in claims, based on a quote informant that there are elements within the Federal Bureau of Investigation who are trying to overthrow the President states that is about as dangerous an allegation is you can possibly make an when confronted just casually hearted out, I'm cable, now that the Euro is an allegation that the Federal Bureau investigation is trying to overthrow the president, I would state just casually toss it off, so bread bear just on Fox. That's where you an answer that figure announced that charge and then when it confirmed

with the absurdity of that charge. Based on the evidence when presented with Johnson just immediately transformed into the shrug Oji and was like. I don't know, that's fine It's how you don't win, watched him say it like. Sometimes you act, like I met gates, were met by yeah that Oswald Obregon congressmen. He is I see that he is a loser has been a loser much of his life and the only way he's gonna get on television is to accuse members of the FBI. Various right here yet as binding alone he's values when a clown forever he's will always be a but wrought. Ron. Johnson, Clear Lake he said this with its? Not even in her personality to say, crazy things just to be on tv, I got is not has been his approach and set out on his visibility.

Record of the Senate, like he's, is terrible and a whole host of levers, and has the policy has a policy knowledge that makes Donald Trump potentially look like the head of the working sensitive, but he, but he seemed to bull. We eve this when he said it yeah alarmed like what he was on the sort of Paul Revere riding through who telling us about this, and the fact that he believes it is dangerous. It shows the power of the Fox NEWS, bright bar trump media bubble that even some unlike RON Johnson can fall prey to believing this absurdity is like none of them know the fixes in right. Save. They now actually believe this

it is it's really. It is actually very dangerous. The FBI is not perfect. They have done many things wrong over time. They have and there's a lot of critique, but you really can't allege that elements of our government are trying to overthrow other elements of our government without evidence. If you wanna be taken as a serious policy in Amerika I mean, and also this is a problem for us, because everything goes down. The memory hold an Ex day and MIKE Evans Gonna forget about RON Johnson, like we shouldn't RON Johnson just made a which should be a career, ending mistake on Fox NEWS, for which he has not apologise for, but, like you said, you could have shrugged off and moved on, like I don't care what else RON Johnson has done in his career that

be good. Like you go on television and uses the FBI's trying to overthrow the present, I had states based on no evidence based on a text message that has no context too, with its clearly a joke. Then you don't deserve to be in the United States Senate anymore. You just don't like what they did. These people are both to dangers and too dumb to be right presenting the american people. It's unbelievable. I mean it's really really bad and, like the thing is all these conspiracies: they they don't take a lotta unpack here, they're so easily punctured like Devon newness. Back to his memo, Devon notices, fucking memo that he wrote he. Only will what other House Republicans Sean Hannity in Alex Jonesy. The memo Democrats are allowed to see it. The b, I asked is allowed to see it. Trumps Department of Justice is not allowed to see it. He won't even let the Republican

share of the Senate Intel Committee, his counterpart Richard Birth, it in the most important thing here is you will anyone people who have the clearance to see it the original classified source material that are supposedly the basis for the memo. We should say that Mark Warner who's, the Democrats granting member on the entire committing the Senate. He has now seen the source material and says, of course, this memo is gonna, be bullshit, because everything I saw this this material did not worry me at all. Even though I have in the memo yet, but one of the most interesting things from this is the system attorney, general, the United States. You know this is someone in the Trump administration that someone has been appointed by done tromp, he wrote a letter to Devon Newness yesterday. That said, releasing the memo would be quote. Extraordinarily reckless, based on quote classified source materials that neither you nor most of the committee have seen, and he said that it would violate in agreement that the Department of Justice and the FBI struck with Paul Ryan about what

and of information, should be released. That's classified this is now now we have the Department of Justice, trumps Department of Justice, saying like hold Devon, Nunez, you're, sort of fuckin crazy, and the thing that's important member here is one of the people who has been tweeting hashtag release. The memo on multiple occasions is Donald Trump Son, Donald Trump Junior down a bunch of ram odds. To- and here I mean just really encourage the fictitious soda, but that you know who could conclude tag released a memo, Donald Vowel job. He is the person who could do it and it'll be issued to see how this place out, because, if trumpets desperate, I could see him doing this because it has the benefit of providing fodder to the nuts on Fox news.

And also annoying just session. So he could see, of course, double beneficial to release the memo. They're gonna, really some rejected version and they're gonna. Be all these text messages that our way out of context that you know somehow suggests that the FBI's part of his fucking plot and then we're gonna, take two or three weeks to have real reporters. Go into real reporting to try to unpack all of this and show why it's a conspiracy, but it won't matter because it will whip up the base of the Republican Party again because Fox we'll talk about it for four weeks every night every show like it's the you know most important event,

since Watergate. That's how this goes, which brings us back to the mother investigation and how this concludes. You can imagine a scenario where we ve said this before he says the Donald Trump has obstructed justice and Republicans in Congress say: there's no fucking way. We impeach the sky because there the fix, was in from the beginning- and this was all applaud by Jim call me and all of his underlings and all the people in a department of justice who we didn't point to elect Hillary Clinton and to undermine Donald Trump. So then, where are we now? Here's where we are? We are winning the fucking twenty eighteen o actually out. Now, that's what we're right. We should support Moors investigation. I, whenever he finds he finds an

if he doesn't find will we hope, be fines. We do not need to become the bizarre version of the right man, conspiracy, no exact, and it may be that Donald traumas should just too dumb to commit the crime we think is committed. That is possible, but at the end of the day, the best in only way to get tromp to circumscribe his power is to take that Congress right and then to get rid of is to beat him and twenty twenty. I would also say to the people who were asking you know, then why do we care about the fresh, a story? If you know at the end of the day there are Congress, isn't gonna act on on mothers, recommendations because they're all you know in the tank for Donald Trump, like what do we care? I do think we want to know the truth like we want to know what happened

what happened with Russia, we want to know who helped them. We want to know what Donald Trump did when he fired Comey and he tried to protect my clan and we want to know why, and we should all push for this truth to come out and that's all we can do. We can't. We can't fix Republicans crazy conspiracy theories. We can do bunk them, but they're going to have to find another one at you know after one is debunked, so all we can do is to push and push for Mueller to finish his investigation to come up with the truth, and if it is a truth that you no points Donald Trump having committed some crimes, then you know it's what a lot of us If it's not like you said, we don't need to be conspiracy, there is either we should just take the results and move on, and you know the d seen a bunch. Reporters are gonna, be like with this a wind from all our loss from all our like its neither mufflers report as mothers report, he is just trying to find the truth, he's not out to get Donald Trump or not out to get Donald Trump. There are some people working to try to bring about justice and offer us the truth, believe it or not, and we should use

porthos people and see what happens. Ok when we come back, we will be talking to congressmen, Reuben Geiger from ours pod David, Erika is brought to you by policy genius. Fun fact guys I do know is this- is going just gonna red January, is named after the roman God. Generous was fun. He had two faces, one looking into the past and when looking into the future- and this meant that JANUS could see everything coming and he was probably a sites. You know pause Algeria that a sum that is Knox it out- and I thought, if you know who else array Janis on immigration down, trumpet Paul, Ryan or both Couple of take note of policy genius sponsors you know. Who is an immortal and can see the future. You hard turn our eyes the gene area, our turn, but that's their product. That's what new life insurance policy geniuses these

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cash, we're switching to the cash out when I use the other absenting more. The code is pod, say, p, o d I save ii. Five hours goes to you five days, those two times up, which is supporting illegal fund to help women have been sexually rest in the workplace and not just in Hollywood all over the place. So you know. I didn't know you doing. We get a facebook message from someone who said get you type, what the cash up all the time- and you just tell us when I use neither apps anymore why is cash out better? Why should we use it? You know I think about advocating for the opposite. That is as much in the same way that we ve been telling Senate Democrats than to make the case for immigration. We ve not been making We ve been in the weeds on process John and Tommy. Why is it easy? else. It inevitably silly doesn't poster alyosha. Yet I told you I don't know I don't want anyone else, knowing what I'm paying people for, how the honest when you first areas in cash, if you like this, is a little too easy, I'm a little uncomfortable at how fast I set money from my friend, but then it is and what do you want to get the cash? I just had. A button amounts in your bank com just hit a button, it so easy OECD. Anyway, the catch up, positives, curve, ideology, fidelity time. I'd say

on the Plaza day, we're very fortunate to have Arizona representative Reuben Guy ago congressmen well into the pot. Thank you for having me so far. Where you sit in the house? What do you think is the best way forward after the show down ended on Monday on immigration, and how does it square with what you think is possible in the Senate? Those immoral! Is we can't link again and number two? We cannot let them use. Dream where's as an opportunity and the fact that a holies numerous hostage as an opportunity for them to like to do horse EL immigration policy changes, just you can do they are trying in this. What I say they had trouble illustration and a lot of their their allies, including what in people, keep say this all the time why national have been trying for years. Is to change immigration policy are trying to is the dreamers as a hostage shows they could change what they ve been trying to do for decades now,

we are trying to do- is give it a family benefits, mission, and they call quote on quote migration- argues those words because they want to make it on his back and unfair modification is an american value. So that's why data using that word they want you diversity, lottery, visas and they want to Are our visas in general, a green card processing permit. So what we can Allow me to do is use these the young men and women. Are there not kids, but young men and women as a way for them to go the end result, because they know that this is it is everyone's confusing while repugnance, whole hog into this, because they know that that this, it's gonna, be there last chest ever do this. There not can ever have unified government again, probably after this year if they want to do you go do this? Does wholesale change, which is entirely by on an pure racism. This gotta be intending to do it That's why they're holding hostage just why Paul rise complicit in this? No one at any point

ever believe that Paul Ryan Speaker, the house, is, on our side, he's a hundred percent just as bad as downtown the only difference, is that he speaks a little nicer and has maybe a better smile and the pressures that can get away with murder, but they are not geared here to help us. So we and I say we me as a member of Congress as another congressional spanish caucus, as was the progressive caucus. We to make sure that we are here in the fight all away and were willing to fight all away for the dreamers, but we not here to compromise decades index immigration policy, especially when we know it's only aim is to essentially make happy these xenophobia that essentially have been helping out, Donald Trump and its difficult. Don't get me wrong it! It's difficult! It's like trying to and the like the best landing during figure skating for us in terms of getting good dream ACT and the same time not compromising when it to wholesale integration policy its difficult, but that's really only option we have and we have to fight. Otherwise we cannot give in

and look once you're in the fight you gotta go all the way at an ill for little. I was in the Marines, the one thing they they taught us is at what and combat the thing that kills? You is hesitancy. The thing that keeps you alive is momentum. So, when we start down this road again, we have to get momentum and keep momentum we do that we will survive. The day. Democrats will pick up the house and we will win. We win the dream act for these eight per thousand Americans congressmen. I agree with you on everything about Paul Ryan, but if Paul Ryan is speaker of the house in controls, what comes to the floor and is comply? so with Donald Trump. On all these things, what levers can be put to actually get him to put a something that would help the dreamers on the floor of the house. I think we, except that we are not a normal times right this is not a normal speaker, this man It has essentially allowed Donald Trump to erode all the norms. Caution checks and balances, and so we think

we're gonna be able to deal with Paul ride in a normal way. We are going to fail what we need His people join us join democratic, joint progressives, and we need to come out onto the streets, much like the women doesn't, but specifically aimed at. The dream act done and a will get to a point where it is, I think, Ryan's, could try to give us some kind of your beep SAM. Or of a modest where impact castle, absolutely savage, then and he's got, expect us to eat it and smile, and at that point we as Democrats can decide to say no and we're gonna need arrogant to come down to congressional offices to DC and basically make this the issue that people have to fight about. We were this to be the conversation every day until the dream act as pass, not about you o o. The capture or medical care or chip? No, we are here. We are fighting for these hundred thousand families

stay in the United States and Paul Ryan and his cronies are just trying to find a way to do it. We have to make this more than just to let sit a process. We have to point out that the reason right now send me that, at this point, eighty percent is being, cause Paul Ryan is using the Hasta rule. Athletes after a child molesters but remind you that is going to separate children from America, and we need to make that and we cannot let the press off the hook. They are part of the problem here to Congress Are you saying that the ingredients in Ryan, should say would mean for that, you that you be unwilling to accept funding for the wall as part of a deal for the dreamers what I'm saying right now is. If you come to me and say, give us x amount for border security, I'm willing to talk about that. But if you come and tell me some ridiculous amount for border, while I'm not here to feed your xenophobia base and four and furthermore, it's a campaign promise When the hell did we go from who's gonna build Mexico, who's, gonna pay for Mexico to like whose good

the Wall- it's gotTa United States in words, income from debt financing when that happened right. So, like if you want to deal let's be serious about dealing, but I'm not necessarily just get a bow or help you build us it was it. When I know in fact those you doing is just to make sure it somebody and some who listens to rush limber feels happy that yet, built something right, from the actual southwest. I go to the border. All the damn time I lived in Mexico for five six years growing up, I know, but was don't do anything thing it does. Is it reinforces, like the viewpoint of somebody who lives in like man, FUCK Egypt, that somehow away all is actually good immigration policy, so congressmen. How did Monday's deal affect your perspective about debt Craddock leadership on the hill arena. We ve been debating this here. We know there in a tough spot. At the same time, no. I think a lot of us wanted them to fight. So, what's your perspective on all this? My perspective is:

look I'm not in the Senate, I know the sun is entirely different from the house. I notice hard, for some of these sectors, especially ones that represent states that trump one the way I think about. It, though, is this and I think every individual centre has to figure out what the what they're doing in and Chuck humor is basically this kind of ever getting the opinion of all his caucus members and is a kind of- but if I was one of these starters the way I think about this, the people that care about this kind of stuff are never going to vote for you they're never going to vote for you. If you think that they're not gonna, run these S. Thirteen, I hate, you know you look and against whom too much commercial. Because you voted to end the shutdown down there are after you voted to start to shut down. You're, crazy you you're not only losing everybody, the more pro you're losing your your progressive base that is really fired up in their fight for a fight

so if I was a senator in a red stay in, for example, John testers example key stuck here He realized at once. You are in your all the way and I think that's what they ate the individual. They need to know, and I think if the have individual Saunders understanding this and, more importantly, their staff, I think it leadership being able to stay in the fight and the other thing is you really have to ignore what I call the the real seriously minded press in DC cause. They they only care about, the czech marks like whether or not whose today who's winning tomorrow versus you know what you really have to care about. It, I think, is the base of Democratic Party. If you focus on who who you're trying to serve and not necessarily what's going to be the headlights of political, I think at the end of day we would have stuck together and we would have me who knows how long the shutdown would have gone. But I think we have ended up being on the outside this and we will have better outcomes. So it seems, like Senator Durban, told politico yesterday that you know that

dreamer negotiations and immigration negotiations are now in a separate path from budget negotiations. It seems they're trying to do is get a budget agreement by February. Eighth, so then make move on immediately to immigration, and then I guess the hope is they get sort of by partisan agreement out of the Senate sometime in February they somehow get Donald Trump to agree to it, and then they try to jam Ryan and the House enforce Ryan too, to hold a vote. What do you think of that strategy and in what would you do need I, Baroness the heirs of state ass for four years I negotiated with met for medical expansion, with a Republican held set at repugnant, held state House, a republican governor for governor jumper, forgot sex, and the one thing I know is that when you're dealing with Republicans the most important role as you never ever ever trust them. There is nothing that says,

and trust any of those people. What has to done if anything, it is that take that could prove to us that we can trust What is Mcconnell done, he's really lie to flaky lied to Jesus. I member. How many other senators that he was going to do certain types of legislative actions for the tax bill Paul Ryan, whose one the most amoral persons in this cause, that's ever served in the House representatives, so the most important thing we have to. First. Obviously, we cannot try and the more you negotiate away any points, a leverage, the less likely you are to get your your probable outcome without come. You want If that's the case and you're willing to do that, if you want to get rid of budget cat fur, she what to do with all the other things first, when it gets to the point of the dream at everyone better stiffened their spine, because the answer shit sandwich the one from the South West right so that shit talk. They are trying to make us eat. It's gotta be worse, so this is not the right way to do it. Unless,

we are willing to go Toto and truly fight. When it comes the last minute of the negotiation. I know at least the Democrats and I'm surrounded by in the house. In them? We are willing to do go all the way we have to. I am sure how other Democrat our how other members of Congress are when it comes to that type. A scenario congressmen pivoting away from the specifics of this fight, I'm cure as you and your colleagues begin, the efforts to take the house back and twenty eighteen you know it's. I think we know the contours of what the argument against traveller Republicans are. Do you have a view on what should be some of the core elements of the democratic platform like if Nancy Pelosi becomes speaker in January between eighteen? We should do acts right you view what action they sell. My personal opinion is, I think we have to be realistic. What would go with we're gonna have maybe we're lucky would take over the centre right, maybe

but you're still going to have some Republicans gotta to be using the to blocking that comes out of the house and then, they're gonna have trump at the end of vetoing. Almost everything right so I think what we actually need to do is we need to show America who the real down trumpet. And in what I mean by that is that we should take his campaign promises and make him veto campaign promises right. For example, you know he talks, you don't you talked a great game drew the camp about closing the Yosemite really are came by the kick that carry interest loophole right, which is what hedge fund managers and why, being as usually used to basically pay their salaries and pay less than what a waitress or Yo Yo a construction work. It gets in terms of their actual tax. We should actually pass that the reconciliation and can veto rights, then we could go to the to everybody that, but you know or dire body, but all the people that voted for a meal. Look. This guy lie to you he's not in it for four years now for America he's in it for himself

we should pass laws dealing with the fact that he has not be configured himself from his personal business. We should pass ass to actually look at his frickin taxes, because I guarantee you everything that he's doing is only helping him out and and we should start really pushing in areas it. I think I could really get consensus right, but we starting to have a true shift in in restive movement, where people understand that you, either by our politicians, are now accountable to them. We should pass drug in competition, there's no way on gods, green earth that we would lose their fight if we make the prescription companies have to oh shit- with the federal government- we save billions per year and then we pushed the or the Senate and let somebody fella buster that let somebody filibuster that within the year, twenty twenty elections coming up and then even let the president try to veto that. I think when we start doing,

if that it shows that one were working for everyday Americans, but never to it, shows the hypocrisy of modern day republicanism, because they talk a big game and, in the end, they're still going to end up having to pay up to the to the most major donors which ends up quotes, Ellie being a lot of people within the prescription, drug companies. That's the kind of thing we have to. We really have to show a line that where the democratic HU, the generous, I verses. What Trump and the republican sir that's good to us, representative guy ago. This is really fine. Thanks for coming on p, I say now my pleasure, you guys gonna love Phoenix, please you know enjoy it. We will make sure we have really nice whether I put in order for seventy five and sunny, also, and usually members of Congress, get their way when it comes to whether orders here in Phoenix, we like to hear the way out there. I sees a figure that, yes,

You two congressmen ribbon gay go for joining us today and we will see again on Monday by everyone. Yeah.