New testimony from the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine all but assures the president will be impeached, while House Republicans stage a pizza sit-in to disrupt the ongoing impeachment inquiry. Jon F. and Dan also examine why some Democratic donors are freaking out about the party's current slate of potential presidential nominees, the importance of digital advertising to the race, and Elizabeth Warren's next moves on Medicare for All.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Talk about today from Bill building is testimony to the brave republican Freedom fighters who tried to disrupt the impeachment inquiry rules.
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Such a love thing to say I'll, go to the news. On Tuesday we learn
testimony that I think almost guarantees. The Donald Trump will be impeached by the House of Representatives
the testimony came from Bill Taylor, an army veteran and career diplomat who has been appointed to serve in every
illustration since Reagan's, including this one or he
currently trumps top diplomat in Ukraine
Those of you don't remember, built it
the guy who texted european you.
Ambassador Gordon Sunland quote. I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. End quote well in fifteen page opening statement that led to the press. Taylor testify that the president himself was in
withholding tax payer funded assistance from a U S, ally in exchange for help with his re election campaign. Here's the money quote from the testimony
quote ambassador someone tried to explain to me the President Trump as a business man and when a businessman
boat, to sign a check to someone who owes him something. He said the businessman asks that person to pay up before signing the czech dance.
Questions for you one is that how business works in two
Why are Democrats saying that built? I was testimony, is the most significant they ve heard in the entire impeachment angry when it is a business working Leisure Donald Trump, who is, they must, of course, are not paying. People for goods received and services provide right site. I get in the case of foreign policy black now that twenty million here is to the common rules that visit. I did it,
this testimony is and groundless enough again, ah in a normal world Taylor than unimpeachable source, he lays out in great detail that there is a quid pro quo inside even some of the other people. We ve heard from a very also very damning things to say about how Trump and his minions inside Nothin garlic that business left open. Some vagueness around the specificity of the quid pro quo, that it was just pressure or there was a disconnect between those two things are just a coincidence that from us demanding something absurd from our country. At the same time, he was resisting congresses. Legal will further said money be provided, but here you have a full criminal conspiracy laid out by a career to combat who was a first hand with
as do all of this and spoke to all the parties and without any role of smoking- and this is a smoking is smoking has got so look I think it's also. You know he key here's this in a tailors. Testimony is based on what he hears directly from Gordon someone:
Who had been a little squishy during his testimony? There is a lot of I do not recall,
We now have reports in the days after bill tailors testimony that current summoned
is thinking about coming back, to revise his testimony, but so and so
You know this is
Gordon someone telling Bill Taylor. This is what President Trump has told me
also found out that you know bill. Taylor said that the Ukraine
and eventually, in early September, knew that the aid was withheld as well. The other thing that
It was interesting to is White Trump
and Giuliani and sidelined and all these goobers what they wanted Zalewski to do the present of Ukraine. It's not like you know these folks really cared about corruption and wanted some investigations into corruption, and you know, berries met just happened to be one of the companies that they picked
They wanted president's linsky to go on CNN and announce on CNN ukrainian government, be investigating bereavement the firm that Joe Biden son was
so it just goes to show you that it's like it's it's
nothing to do with an investigation. It was just wanting a foreign government to smear a potential political opponent. That's what you want. I rarely used the term savvy and trumpet a thing threatened, but this is a very savvy understanding of how the modern clinical media works. Yelp trunk knows from June twenty. Sixteen at all, he has to do is get someone to say that by undermining the vine families under investigation- and that will be in every story about your binding for the rest, the time now it is what was so devastating Hillary Clinton, and so he doesn't want ashram efficient. He just wants to some thin red to hang the accusations of corruption on, and he knows the press will run with it and that it is a trumpet Joanna. They know what they're doing here is very specific and that's why they don't want that they wanted to sat on CNN and rethink and bark, and I think that at its influence on the democratic primary, which I don't know, if it's every or not,
it is very clear what trumpet trying to do here and it was get Ukraine could be involved in our collection of that year. I think the other thing worth pointing out is part of that one or other reason. This was in no fairly compelling testimony
is Taylor, who is this career diplomat, but a diplomat. His whole life talks about going to Ukraine and you know visiting with some of it
people in Ukraine. Fighting russian aggression her on the front lines and was
Talking about how you know, people in Ukraine are gonna die because they didn't get this assistance. This military assistance,
and it was all held up because of Donald Trump and for political reasons.
It's like there's no real world consequences to withholding congressional appropriated aid like that is illegal and immoral. Damn, let's talk about the various responses to tailors incriminating testimony from the President and Republicans in Congress, so trumps first reaction
to tweet a quote from some idiot republican congressmen who is on Fox. That said quote neither Taylor
or any other witness has provided testimony that the Ukrainians were where the military aid was being withheld Dan? What's wrong with that defence, it's wrong journalistic hero can Vogel.
Publish, a story. The New York Times would said they, of course, all aware of, and how can they not possibly aware of it? And there is documents they prove that they knew about it, so
this is for the risks
I'd say bay of
forming you're aunt. I impeachment message
strategy around things random people say on Fox NEWS was also before
Voebel story was even published.
Bill. Taylor himself testified that the Ukrainians knew he said, President Trump
didn't says: the President's Olenska go to a microphone and say he's opening investigations of Biden. That President's
Linsky himself had to quote clear things up in doing public. President trumps,
it was not a quid pro quo
ambassador. Someone said that he had talked to President's linsky in his aid, MR your MAC and told them that, although
This was not a quid pro quo. If President Zalewski did not clear things up in public, we would be at a stalemate.
Was it not a quid pro quo, but if you dont provide the club whenever guy and equipment
does it have why so Taylor does device that someone told him they did know that aid was being withheld for political purposes on September, four,
first and then Vogel has a story that runs in the New York Times, as it was actually much earlier this summer that the UK
means new in the New York Times has documents to prove that and then the AP reports
four hours after that yesterday? That's a Linux
had been worried since before he took office as president that he would be asked by Trump to invite
to date the violence- and he was already worried that he would get drawn into U S domestic politics and be pressured to investigate the vitamins and if it, if he didn't, do that,
his very fragile relationship with his most important ally the United States is he's facing aggression from Russia would be in jeopardy. So
it was all right there. It's all right this, so the next, the next term,
excuse is the bill. Taylor is a deep state, never tramper the White House released
It meant the night of tailors testimony calling him a quote.
Radical, unelected bureaucrats who was part of a quote, coordinated smear campaign and then trump himself, tweeted the next day
Four Trumbo Republican, John Bellinger represents never trumpet diplomat Bill Taylor in parentheses, who I dont know in testimony before Congress exclamation point. So what's the problem with this defence
Well, it's obviously not sure you went through at the beginning of this punk asked which-
withdraw soon in doing this goes like ten years ago.
True tailors very long resume. He is someone who has worked for republics Democrats. He is a public servant through and through. There is nothing to suggest that he is a partisan hack, a member of the deep state or anything like that. I will say there is a factual problem with this for sure, but I think, as democratic people who, carer
the rule of law and facts, are things like that we should be at least we should recognise that tromp had some measure success, taking Bob Mahler, whose
but who had unimpeachable
our partners in public servant
Charles as well and turned it into a bogeyman
for just enough Republicans to ensure
that the report was not taken seriously by his base or by any of the members present members of Congress, and so this is it
our strategy on its face? When absurdity has some success when amplified by a right wing propaganda network yeah, I do think it will be harder this time and will be harder, because Bill Taylor does not stand.
Alone here, you know Fiona Hill, who was on Transnational Security Council. You know and she was a rush of specialist. She testified
Gordon someone testify and even though he's a trump loyalist seems to be may be changing historian revising his testimony. You know that the ambassador to
You have no, which testified so
a number of drug. You know a defence department, official there's, a number of Trump appointed officials. I mean Bill, Taylor was applied
by fucking Might Pompey. Oh, no.
One by his three weeks ago. Religio and no one is a bigger trumpet, his ass in the entire federal government than might Pompey, or at least he's like top three or four at least we are waiting,
given that our gets even militarism. Think these aims are bare. Bill bars up there, but there are he's close, so might palm peo that they should give this guy is never Trump, never try
were unelected bureaucrats a job in the administration. So I didn't you write like Trump and Fox, and everyone else will be trying their hardest to show
that Bill Taylor is biased that every single person who testified against trumpets bias. That's that's their strategy if you testify
whatever you say, whether the truth about the truth, if you testifying to hurt
Donald Trump. You are a deep state, elected bureaucrats,
or your working with the Democrats. That's it that's! That's! That's what they got
so. A number of Republicans have already made the transition from embarrassing excuses too deeply embarrassing stunts the day after bill. Taylor testified Trump, reportedly encouraged a group of house Republicans.
Obstruct the impeachment inquiry by physically storming the secure office or a defence department. Official was testifying. These republican freedom fighters were led by human frat, paddle
gates who chanted? Let us in let us in before quietly sitting at a conference table to eat the pizza that they ordered Dan were prompted this brain
protest any any problems you see with the basic logic behind it. I would say just Adam ship, if you listening, that, I think you may there. Maybe
law in your strategy to run these secret partisan hearings keep hooligans in the dark
so. The advice I give you is maybe stop inviting all the powers of the committee to all the depositions. What do we do?
its oh, it's like without a secret process,
there are Republicans in the room of your mother and people. There were publicly
ship decided not to put on the committees that are holding the hearings, and it
Is it? Is it really like you human, for I had always these brilliant way, and I thought I was
tell me your love at who I can remember, which one of them and let us get, let's go atomic ahead
Is everyone Ascribe Matt Gates? Obviously
This is absurd creature of the Trump era, but there
Is this right: leg, low, rent, frat house atmosphere that
the Motto Republican Party that the only response here cannot be some sort of intellectual argue
or a fact based response, or
looking at the law and has to be a stunt. Has me
absurd style, a bunch of growth
man. I think there are also
entirely man and, as is based on the fact that the Republicans in house, which is almost all white man,
who wet stormed a room and order pizza and begged to be arrested.
They, why can be heroes of white? I don't know it's a stupid, it's just so damn there's so many problems with their argument here. It's it's hard to know where to begin, but I think we should with the fact that you know. Yes, these are these hearings that are being conducted right now and their more interviews, and they are like full blown hearings. They are being conducted behind closed doors, but what you wouldn't know from listening to trumpet the Republicans or any fucking person on Fox is the hats there being conducted by Democrats and Republicans
You said Republicans were on the intelligence committee, her on the Oversight Committee and who are on the Judiciary Committee are all in the room and Democrats. Her on those three committees are all in the room: Demo
that's who were not on those committees aren't allowed in just like Republicans who aren't on those committees aren't allowed in its that fucking simple. In fact, a quarter of the Republicans who were part
the protest who stormed the storm. The meeting were,
ready allowed in
They were already a hurried into the beating of pages wanted to they did. It is a stunt to get presidential. It was on fucking believable. Do you think
smart or stupid. I think it was as a stunt like I think it's stunts go I mean I don't know, I think it's pretty fucking stupid, but like did they get a days worth of
lines about how they stormed into a meeting here, although I have to say you know, we criticise the media, often like every single nonpartisan reporter an outlet reported that it was a stunt that it was ridiculous and explained what was really true.
Even on Fox. I saw you know, Andrew Napoletano, Judge Napoletano on Fox and friends this morning. Talking about how like this is, what happens you dont want witnesses to court.
They testimony. So you do these initial interviews in a closed session privately and then
Adam shift has already said we're gonna hold public hearings and we're gonna make all of this testimony public. He has already said that, so the crazy thing is that all these Republicans and trumpet, like the Democrats in there,
socialist closed door soviet style hearings. What are they doing like as, if we're afraid of public hearings? I can't fucking
wait for the public hearing. It might be a short term tactic to get them through right now to try to get a few good headlines, but it's gonna blow up in their faces soon, as their public hearings right. The idea that they want this to happen in public is insane prophetic submitted. The like this has been the problem. This is why this is
been hard for Democrats Anderson. The process there going down the right process to come to a measured reason, fully, invest
get a decision by it,
We live in a online video world ads.
The prince stories are not going to drive a confrontation suggest that much of headlines about what bill tailors. That is not the same as an event were built. Taylor is delivering.
Twenty people tuning and on their television or watching.
Some wine like that, will be so much more powerful in it. Billy
this is item
where the White House in their progress would constantly do stupid shit. I wish is to try to explain to people that the Republic of national competence,
energy is not. This is not a chess checkers conversation in Athens off into checkers. It's me
Luckily they want to do what ever gets them through. The next caucus meeting right, like whatever just makes the next lunch they're gonna, have to have the crazies lesson.
People, and now it's basically like how do you get to the next Trump tweet right like her
like what are we going to do for the next five minutes without any thought of what happens in minute, six through one billion man, that's
but that is now the way in which this is some. Why there is some logic to this is Republicans to have understood since the beginning of a presidency that stunts like this work, because
they do. Is they serve the natural cynicism of the american public and so people dont have most people
or not, news obsessive, like us, and many people listening they just hours
they're, just like looking at their head wines, either on the Cairo upon the tv Erful is their scrolling, your facebook or whenever such media they use in an hour
Here is a bunch of evil yelling at each other,
and then there are naturally immediately to fall to both. Sides are bad
like others, a big messier must be something so throwing a bunch of mud around ten dirty up. The process for allotted.
People, who are naturally cynical about politics- and these are the p
for that we need to turn out.
Right, and so when you who knows anything about healthcare people they to pay attention to health care in two thousand and ten, we are trying to pass it into the. What the actual subjects of the bill were.
We just a bunch of people yet on each other, at town halls and about we were young age where there is that simply by the problematic, and so I think that, as the underlying logic to the idiot
seed of yesterday is just make the whole thing
are messy that people will to now, while ensuring that trumps base turns out that sort of there's a political process here that I
egg- is something we should keep our eyes on well and I will say even people who aren't cynical about politics and who do pay attention to the news. The v logic here is to try to confuse them as much as possible. Any my dad
is a lot of attention to the news. I was talking to him last night about this whole thing and he's like I didn't know that Republicans were allowed in some of these meetings. He's, like I thought the
She should make that clear. I don't know I've been paying attention to the news all day. I didn't know there were allowed in some of the hearings like so there is that they are just trying to confuse people, even people who pay a lot of attention to this stuff, and it's easy into it. I mean:
One thing I knew until two days ago three days ago that three committees worth a republican hooker in the fucking room enough so
you know what you can see. Why they're doing this, and I will say also when the republic earrings, I think the public hearings will be very strong. I think they'll be able to be choreographed at that point, because Schiff and Pelosi and all the Democrats will have all the testimony they need and I'll be able to figure out like who should we hear from and what order to make sure it's most the most compelling stories possible, but Republicans will try to make those hearings a fucking circus, because they're going to get time to speak and they're going to say crazy shit, and
yeah! Well, I'm going to try to do what they did, that Corey Lewandowski hearing and try to make it seem like it so much of a circus that everyone's like. Why is everyone yelling at each other during these impeachment hearing, so the
he's gonna be a similar challenge, even when these hearings or public network
I will say we forgot to mention one more thing about how fucking stupid that stunt was. Is the the the interviews were being held.
Called in what is known as a secure compartment information facility, known as the skiff is the acronym there, and they have some
these in the White House in this situation- room they have some in Congress. Basically their places
can go and have meetings where you dont
any cell phones in any laptops, anything else, because you want to be secure as possible, and so people are hacking if there's listening device. Whatever else you can make sure that this is, you know that this is clear of all that and you can basically discuss classified information right
and these fucking goobers charge in there, with their cell phones into his
give which you are never supposed to do. Never these same,
pelicans who're. You know they care
lot about operational security when it comes to a private emails and email servers and all the bullshit but they'll just barge into fucking skiff would you're never supposed to do with their cellphones John. I dont want to seem cynical haven't. I don't think they really care.
Bout, the use of private email service, and I think that will not only help us and I think that our sincere the other point about this. This is fucking
was I know I know, I'm sorry, your bad. When I burst through the last mile button,
last one was of optimism and hope this alone. I
the other point about this sort of funny is dynamic.
That this is they violate house rules like you're, not allowed to do that? The parliamentary groups that today, but yesterday, gave him a guard
Who is really, I do us, add just trillion Davis
went out and explain that is that these numbers faults they don't
these rules, because there are not only intelligence committee, which is the whole point.
Yet matter into their not in the room there, because it not only intelligence committees that you give him a car, they ensure that
Smart in the mirror, when you're practicing at bottom in your hair. So I guess
a gram today as where recording this Wednesday grandmother?
so going to introduce a resolution in the Senate. That is an official. You know disapproval of the houses impeachment process and how it's a closed door secret process. Do you think he's going to get all of the republican votes for this? Do you think of me?
we not just Matt Gates in his in his Friday, storming squirming skiff here, but this his it simply with the broader republican strategy. Now is it? Is it smart, you think grams gonna succeed. I know my Connell's backing
ram and this resolution with me, I'm interested to see what kind of actually bring this to the floor and forests. Corey gardener, Martha Mc Sally, Susan Collins, etc. To vote on this because,
It seems like a wooes wounds speakers, if those, if you any Republicans, vote against it like either them
vulnerable. Republicans I mentioned, or so like Elisa Mc Caskey, who media has been known to back the party at times of any than vote against it. That's a giant bloated tromp. It would put this by partisan
approves busy. Nobody chosen by partisan support nuclear republican senators work and, if he passes it on a party line vote, enforces all of these republicans running in
blue in proposing the presidential election year to say that they do
approve of looking into presidential crimes, brain which is different than saying I've looked at this its troubling it does it reached the level of conviction that
but that's a much worse position puts you'd went so I would I am surprised I would be surprised him. Mcconnell brought this to the fore.
Or it see if I understood my grand did it because he knows from mad at him in this
as the legislative equivalent of junk you sack standing outside holding up a blue box
He's just trying to send a message to tromp patents
the by I think the long term play here- seems not helpful, further
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Receive so we're talking about Linsey, Graham and the centre resolution, not all of them
public and senators have gone with, you know Trump and mad
It's an Lindsey Graham, and you know fully defending everything. Already, here's a quote from one republic:
senator about bill tailors. Testimony quote the picture coming out of it based on the reporting that we ve seen, I would say, is not a good one
but I would say also that until we have a process that allows for everybody to see this in full transparency, it's pretty hard to draw any hard and fast conclusions. That was John soon. The number two Republican in the Senate,
I can't ranking sent a Republican. There were similar latency comments from senators like Susan Collins, Mitt Romney Pierre de facto, and in this week the daily collar contacted the offices of all fifty three republican senators and found only seven who said that they definitively oppose the impeachment inquiry into Trump. So you know we can't really predict anything here, but do you think the chances of twenty Republicans voting to convict Trump have increased this week with tailors testimony of the politics changed at all? Why do you think I don't think the chances of trapping removed from office had increased? I do not, even though the occasion number opponent
I ve learned: what drives republic in fealty to tromp is the republican base, and that has not moved, and I told him I'd have no reasonably that is going to move is its. It is. Is that thirty eight percent right as a lot of these people? You know who would make decisions on a very concise in their deadly afraid of primary
We are the filing deadlines, have not passed in a lot of states, so this is a in this process will end me.
Those finally deadlines new pass, so it's in there. I think. That's! Where am I gonna? We should be clear, eyed about that and not get
anyone's hopes up, so they allow the media to move
success from a in great detail.
The story to the country with a trial and with it reveals information to whether drums removed or not, because that is again we are destined to lose. I do think rub. Their republicans are finding
of their previous defences to be much much harder suggests estates? Oh, I see
we're going to see a strategic retreat of sorts where
you are not adamantly opposed to the inquiry itself but adamant, but you become annually
Is that what is discovered in the inquiry reaches a level where the uppermost yeah and that's and that's where they end up right? That's the final excuse from other publicans, even even someone, my Collins, an ox honestly, it mirrors their final excuse in the cabinet. Confirmation right, which was Unison Collins, has something
yeah. Maybe there was wrong and we can't really be sure and doesn't rise to the level of stopping this appointment and all that kind of bulshit. You can see them and you can see even the ones who are up in twenty. Twenty, ultimately saying will look. I supported the inquiry because I think it was important to get to the bottom of this, but I don't believe it rises to the level of an impeachable offense, so
knowing that that's where they're gonna end up and knowing that one of our big political goals here has ever been like yeah. We really think that twenty Republicans are gonna, have the courage to fucking remove the sky from office, but we want to make sure we want to make life as hard on some of the Senate. Republicans were up in purple. States we want to make. It is hard for is possible for them to vote to protect trump. How should Democrats response
on to that argument that it just doesn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense. I think it is to make the case and as clear and dramatic terms as possible that it does write. This is.
Like you have to explain simply and clearly how this is an abuse of power and the Mean
we really are and where you have a quid pro quo around. No,
Harry aid for a vulnerable ally in exchange for
a politically motivated investigation to an interfering in coming election. That is, that isn't a plus answer to my place. I question of what is unimpeachable. That's it is. That is exactly what they are thinking about and you have to make you have to make the case you have to do
Clearly, it's a sickly and I do think whether that we ve been involved in this, the real world
and then even some of us internally at present Macromedia minutes, you know
discussing. Why should it be just Ukraine? Should it be?
other thing: should it be broader, I'm generally for broader, but I do think the thought
in some of the things we ve heard about how focusing this around abuse of power from this president, with that being the framing concept with what's happening, Ukraine, as the centrepiece of that is a very powerful.
And you have to show why these Republicans, who were trying to have it both ways, are full of shit, and that means making the case simply clue
and every day between now and whenever day, this trial comes to a conclusion. So I like focusing on abuse of power, but I do think that proving that Donald Trump Behaviour towards Ukraine is part of a larger pattern and that he has done this kind of thing that he is abused. His power time and time again helps make it more difficult for Republicans in Congress to vote to acquit, and I think, if you can say it wasn't just Ukraine he tried to.
He asked China to investigate the burdens, and today trumps, trade representative, Peter Navarro, was asked if investigating the binds has ever come up during the trade talks with China, and he said he would answer so
There is another possibility, like I think you need to show that look. This guy is using the power of the presidency and abusing the power of the presidency to do whatever it takes to win reelection, and we cannot have free and fair
elections in twenty twenty? If this man remains in office because he has already proven time and again, he will stop at nothing at nothing to try to get foreign help to win this election on his behalf, and I think the way we need to frame and ultimately is a vote to acquit- is a vote to green light foreign interference in the twenty twenty election.
It's not about Trump son, about defending tramper opposing trump. If you are Susan Collins and you vote to acquit, you just voted to give the green light for foreign interference in the twenty election. That's what your vote is about and Democrats run those ads. They
completely fucking fair in Maine in Arizona all the places where Republicans Europe, and even if they weren't very desirable one facebook without any problems
that is rather yeah. Everyone go check out our embassies, questioning of Mark Zuckerberg yesterday and Katy porters and everyone's it was whose fantastic but
look I'd I'd, so I'm I'm for
for widening the inquiry in a way that will confuse the storyline, because I think we have a good, understandable, accessible storyline right now, but I M for proving that Donald Trump abuse of power with regard to Ukraine is part of a larger pattern and making sure that the american people know what that pattern is and making sure that the senators were voting on this. Now
that pattern is and feel the pressure, and I think the way we can bring in all the various strands of those. Not one story is something along. The lines of Donald Trump is abused. His office to enrich himself reward is France and punishes enemies, and so that gets you
corruption, richest, adding a very whether its dune backer, the G7 or any of that it gets thinks he's done too.
Meta reward donors and against the foreigner election airfares, yet anything just end and put our and put free and fair elections at risk. You know put our democracy at risk, I think, and in getting the people's heads that we might not have a fair election, because Donald Trump has Mina, whether its bill bar or
residents linsky he's using all of the using all the powers of his presidency to make sure he wins and
We can't be sure we know about the Ukraine one because of a brave whistleblower and above Emmy.
Bill Taylor, whose like a good guy in all this, be,
he came forward and, as you know,
speaking out Bill Taylor, if not for the whistle.
Or wouldn't have suddenly thing, and we would now
I have known about all this so think about all of the other abuses of power that are going on in the ministration. If this is the only one that we know about right now, pod save America is brought. You buy, simplisafe you recent Gallup,
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all right. Let's talk about what it is,
early that time of the campaigns ease and where democratic donors and strategies and people who love taken calls from reporters freak out over the field of democratic
at its here's Jonathan Martin in the New York Times quote. Democratic leaders are engaging in a familiar right, fretting about who is in the race and longing,
for a white knight to enter the contest at the last minute and here's the Washington Post quote in Congress,
genes with seventeen State National party leaders, nearly all express some level of unease with where the field stands and deepening concern that the leading and tenders would struggle mightily against Trump. These party leaders,
portly kicking round the idea of trying to get a variety of candidates to enter the race from Michael Boom.
And Bob I go to John Kerry and of all Patrick to shared Brown and even Hillary Clinton.
Then, where we see these pieces before every election, every election
haven't every single time democratic tradition,
Maybe it's a frankly the bipartisan tradition, like no other, because that's that's how we got recovery in the race in two thousand and twelve and Fred Thompson. Two thousand and four in there
something about the primary process. It is very diminishing,
candidates. It you go a year of tremendous scrutiny, debates getting in debate, exchanges with forth to your candidate.
Its reporters come after you making gaps and so, like you,
All of that before you ever get a single vote
Every like it is
all I've ever candidates flaws, are on full display and you dont
without actual actions, you know how many validation of weather
There is reason for your anxiety, and so
We ve seen this every single time. It's not surprising. What is interesting about it too need this time is two things. One there's more anxiety, decide because trumpets bad- and this is this- is the scariest election rubber gonna have, and it feels like a lot of what this country is about and democracy is about,
The ballot this time in second, is that these party leaders, who are accordingly in have never have US imports right
just there is there's our there's that there's no it's been a long time. It there's no smoke filled.
Somewhere, where a bunch of donors and state party chairs can put a Canada on the ballot like that, all of the power that has been pushed down to the grass roots, and you can see that by
that was with worn and Bernie Sanders. Air are near the top of this race, with Joe Biden to people who do not have a set of establishing established
report and the other person who is lurking in the background is the third
Europe may or south end in Vienna who couldn't even when the dead sea chairmanship two years ago, and so these are not yet it is. The party leaders are picking. So I went sweat this one too much.
Yeah. I should say that the other reason everyone so scared is normally the trumps awful, and you know it would be a catastrophe if he got a second term, but that we lost him
first place and we all got it wrong right, and so it is like war.
Everyone is so much more nervous this time about who we're gonna chooses a nominee, and I think that skinny,
to now that the issue here, though, is the war
among the party leader
and donors is not necessarily reflected in the democratic electorate. According to a pole of democratic, undemocratic leaning, voters conducted, but you go after the last debate. Eighty three percent described themselves is satisfied with the field and forty five percent described themselves as enthusiastic so yeah, we like the enthusiastic number to be up there, but eighty three percent of people
satisfied and you look at approval ratings for some of these candidates. Elizabeth warned. The proceedings among Democrats is incredibly high. People to judges Oprah,
rating among Democrats is incredibly high. Joe Biden has pretty I Bernie Sanders is pretty hot. As for candidates right there, who have very, very high approval ratings with the democratic electorate, the other thing area,
Let us hypothetically say you as a donor or a party leader or just a random voter are nor
es or have some reason to not be in love with the top three, your top for that he weaknesses in their hearts,
any of other great candidates in the race that you could support? You can support group worker Jani Clover, Char homily Harris are better like lack of candidates is not our problem, so we don't need to go dragon
the latter retirement to get it right in this incident. It just is an absurd proposition. All especially people. Look you and I, and we ve done this right, you and I could make a case why each one of these candidates, in the
held at least the leading candidates in some of the ones in the second tier could beat Donald Trump and a case why they could lose two Donald Trump
and with some carried their different reasons for each, but I also all the key
It needs that have been mentioned in the p
who are running and people want to jump in. I could do the same thing with them about strength. They haven't weaknesses, they have the truth. Is
every single one of these candidates has strength and they have weaknesses. No one is perfect. We are.
Going to nominate the perfect democratic candidate?
We never have
We never have like we go back.
All the stories about
Party leaders and I'm sure, there's a fucking whole bunch of Edwin Del- quotes about why brow
Obama is a weak general action on many. Why Brok Obama can't win against John
Cain, especially John Mccain, who at the time was this maverick, independent here
Oh, like oh, no. They, like Mina Brok, Obama, begin.
John Mccain, that that's gonna be horrible. So, like I do think there is look. I know I understand, I get the concern.
The people have right now that we're not gonna win. I have it every fucking day, but I think you know if I
as I go down the list of candidates like I said I can give you a k
Why each one of them went, and I give you a case where they lose and in all that we can do is work, are fucking asses off too for whoever the Democratic Germany.
To make sure that they do it. I mean in a lot of ways it's up to us if you have anxiety, goodwill phone ache
calling undecided voter, don't call Jonathan Martin yeah, maybe that's the biggest, so you know
with the p says you know their worried about buying because of his campaign? Sourdough you now, even though you know his pole, numbers are fairly steady but he slipping line. I also their word about by and for all that, and then they say:
worry about war and because you know she's taken positions that are too
liberal right and what they really mean here is her position on Medicare for all. So we should start to talk about that, just because, partly in response,
to these concerns about her position on Medicare, for all which she was too
and VON during the last debate
The senator announced on Sunday that in a few weeks, show release her plan on how to pay for it. So, first of all, you know how concerning is her embrace of Bernie Sanders Medicare for all legislation? Do you think it's a smart move that she is finally going to release specifics on how to pay for it and and also did she really have a choice? I think what was smart like there is
plenty of evidence and plenty of reason for work or concern around Medicare for you're right it. It can be like we're just appalling, as it is clear that there are risks there. There risen every policy and the question is what the policy, as is. How do you sell that policy and what I think will
is smart was Elizabeth Warren, unlike all the other candidates, not name Bernie Sanders back Verde. Sinners is bill back in two thousand and seventeen and when she did
she wasn't knew she was making a decision. That was going to be her approach in the presidential campaign that she went back that bill to get
through you, don't be get liberal excitement, as you were thinking, are running for president, then have a different approach, the being for that building me for indifferent bill has been problematic for a bunch of other candidate to senators who had done that but
it was a board, is run an excellent campaigns and thus far the only place where I think
she has made real mistake.
Since she actually got in the race.
Know what she is trying to do there and hasn't come off well, and it said it seems very typical politicians to someone who's, Brenda,
It is a bit and even though I know what she is trying to do there and hasn't come off well, and it said it seems very typical politicians to someone who's Brennan themselves. As an atypical politician,
and so she needs an answer. I am frankly very fast and see what you say, because I.
Think we'd. Better answer would have been to just
Bernice lead and just
Mcnerney was saying, ah both in the primary
and the general, because now she's had this new plans. Gonna get attacked from thirteen different directions, depending on how many Canada's you figure stone the race as opposed to signing yourself with burning and with where she originally was well inlets. Let's look at what Bernie has done right. Bernie has a list of potential pay force in his legislation. Potential pay force. One of those is a sum percentage on apparel tax, which would hit, of course, working in middle class families. Bernie Sanders has been open about the fact that yes, taxes, Michael up on some working middle class families, but
Your premiums will go down to zero, along with your cooperation deductibles, so you'll be fine in the end. So that's where Bernie is Elizabeth Warren by saying your costs will go down and not saying anything about taxes, but promising pledging. She will not sign a piece of legislation that has Cassio Upper Middle class families,
by saying that she, yes, she doesn't want to give the Republicans talking point of her saying taxes will go up,
but its clear. She just doesn't agree with that pay for
which is why she's finding her own right, she doesn't want
payroll tax increase, or else you probably would have just figured out a way to say it in a different way. Rarely she's she'd look
other funding option? So she, which is true
do we solve this puzzle of how to fund this very, very expensive program? Like yes
we know that many corollas gonna ultimately bring health care costs down, because it is not the right now we have so much waste in health care and part of that waste is overhead and unnecessary tests in all the bullshit that insurance companies do in hospitals doing all this kind of stuff that we need to get into, but there's a lot of waste, but still to get the programme off the ground. It does need finally
and you know I do. I agree that for someone who has come up with so many plans in so many details, including like you, go on my website, and
vineyards. Do loan amount and you'll figure it exactly how much you get relieved in student loans or wealth? The intellect she's been so specific on so many different things it would have been. I think it would have been ape a mistake and it would have just been its core to who she is right to talk about plans in detail, and so I don't think she had an option on the gene other option. Now the question is: when she comes out the plan. Have you come up with a plan
to pay for this if it doesn't either get attacked by Bernie Sanders on the last vice, for by saying oh you're, actually a sell out, you didn't stick with my Medicare for all plan or get attacked by. You know
in the center and centre left and the right saying. Oh, this is crazy. It's going to raise taxes on people, blah blah blah blah blah like it's a it's, a tough needle to thread I'll, say that
Yeah, I mean- I think it was. This problem could have been sought like
may this an issue by not answered
or trying to rephrase the question that I think maybe thinking that her refraining uphold. But what you're doing debate every month in your taking questions from reporters all the time to questions from people, town halls,
that becomes less sustainable in its early because as soon as you get near the top- and it gives an incentive to people like people to judge urge,
Biden or some others to make a point of a very fair point about that at the question it I always wondered is a why not just
I am open like is there a way you could say I'm open to a number of ways of paying for it by my principal is no one who makes less than acts will see their taxes raised right like that like like that pass on green. I shade budget
asked no, but the Republicans just past eight trillion dollar tat scupper Wall Street untold everyone's can we pay for and its added trainers deficit like six seven minutes. So I think there were like that
probably away to stake on principle here and then leave it
ghost rider. Now I need you to see you like this is going to be a super detailed, like all the columns in numbers add up and how that plays politically, both right now in a moment where I think
He is going to be the focus of attacks. I assume the deadline for this is the November twentieth. Yes,
today rightly, she has to have that answer by that. Yet
a story that just at the Washington Post, ran today, just before we start recording about some of the advisers, her economic advisers outside advisers, trying to help her with this and they campaign did say they're gonna have it out by the next debate. They also said we know. One of the things there looking at, which seems like a good place to go, is some kind of employer tax,
so that you know employers right now. You know, spend money to cover their employees under Medicare for all in
I won't be spending any money on covering their employees ever again because the government is paying for that. So do you say to employers who
right now covering their employees- are at the money that you spend on your employees right now for coverage you're going to pay in taxes. Now it's still a tax increase, but is it more politically palatable to say I'm going to raise taxes and employers, then employees and middle class families yeah?
Probably now does that get you all the way there I dont think it does. I think you still need a couple more pay for his, but that's one place. I could see her going, let's end by discussing something that we do think is worth freaking out
which is the Democrats, information warfare strategy for twenty twenty
if he Rosenberg and Kevin Roofs of the New York Times published a very well reported peace that lays out how the Trump campaign has spent three years building a quote: sophisticated digital marketing effort that includes targeted, adds, tested, content and data collection. Democrats according to the story are quite far behind and not nearly as focused on Digital had spending message, testing or data collection. So everyone who listens knows the. Where concern
but this Ipods, America. But do you want to explain just how concerned we are and why we're quite insert her acquaintance and it falls on the island? I think a couple different
reasons. One is simply. This is a product of trans immense incumbency advantage. Brok Obama started his re election campaign in April.
Twenty eleven, which gave him a little over a year and a half to deal
restructure tests, message is gonna, build tack, accumulate data Trump formed his RE election committee, five
hours. Every was sworn in office in January and two dozen seventy and they have done
raising and spending money and incredible clip and
but then allows you to do, is accumulate a ton of data about who to target and how to target them so did
You will be incredibly efficient and effective in your advertising. Spend.
In the general watching what you know where your opponents initiative just building up your supporters, Zita doing defining the conversation with in money.
Bending right now, you're gonna, know so much more about the electorate and the democratic debate, because the Democrats are focused rightfully the Democratic Kennedy to protest, rightly on primarily winning for states.
Two of which are highly unlikely to vote for the Democrat in the fall in within those states? Are not targeting swing voters there, both
we targeting traditional primary bucks, certain democratic voters and their spending their money, not on learning how to persuade voters, but on
getting building up their email west in building up their fundraising databases. That's where their spending there. Might you can't even compare the money the Democrats horsemen
The money trumpets Monica are two different things. The money democratic spending has very limited if any utility for how you're actually gonna wage and internal action. The second problem is
This is very well revealed in the story which is there is just a fundamental contains with this fundamental disk
act between how a lot of Democrats, not all of them, but a lot of Democrats, view put a communications have said this before, but democratic EU political communication,
our public relations when it is really in this day and age. Modern information warfare, which means it is you
data it is targeting, is trying to shift the online conversation in your way in your direction.
You understand how you persuade not by telling the near times or see an end or even content. America thanks! That's how you take
ten information and put it in front of the voters who need to hear right, it is like almost handy.
Persuasion through digital advertising, through organic content, etc and too much of the structures around democratic medications,
continues to be set up around how you communicate to the press.
It's a lot of incentives and then a primary to do that, because democratic primary voters pay attention to the press in the third thing that is very concerning is that Facebook is a primary engine for all of this in Facebook, provides conservatives with a structural advantage. It is. There is an algorithm of reward for outrage
an outrageous, the corner of the Roman Republic and politics, and so republican messages which dried outrage go further on. Facebook Republican adds that DR outrage reach more people more efficiently.
In democratic ads, and so in order to figure out how to match them. We need to be spending money and we're here
a right now and with a couple of exceptions that we can talk about their there has just been theirs
giant vacuum on the democratic side for a long time. So yes, asset that scare. You know, that's great, you know you look on there.
So you'll, be because there's something wrong with me. I got into it with that Nate Silver over the story on Sunday because he spent most of Sunday tweeting about how wrong overblown it was at one point saying quote: there's nothing magic about digital! Add spending, we're supposed to believe that the Trump campaigners, a bunch of super geniuses for spending extensively at Facebook adds. Where is everyone who works for one of the nineteen democratic him campaigns as an idiot? Far more likely that they ve studied this stuff with some empirical rigour rather than buying into the largely evidence free media mythology
the effectiveness of digital campaign adds Dan? So what is what is needed
nay right about what is he wrong about? What need is right about is that trunk, even if they are not, they are not geniuses right. The trumpet major
geniuses, they are, they were more like you, ve been good and twenty sixty by they stumbled on something that was incredibly effective, which
they ran a modern digital market campaign where they bade attested thousands of different messages. The sea, which one work best in double down on the ones on the ones that worked, and they did that out of necessity, not out of genius by it, did work it's very hard. I pull apart, needs argument because our elements of it that our right, the trunk
pain are not geniuses in the last few years, telling everyone they are geniuses and basely wine about what they didn't. Why sixteen the Dallas trip yeah? It's not the democratic,
thirty two three hours of work, as they have no incentive right now to be doing the things that Trump is doing, because there are trying their trying to get democratic primary vote. So I cannot tell you with a hundred
sent certainty, that digital ads are magical mythical, like all other things, they have to be done right to work well
I do know is that we are being massively outspent in an area that matters
and in order to do it well on the far you have to learn how to do it well now. Yet, where are we
were I fundamentally disagree with me. I mean obviously digital ads
magic. No one is arguing that, like the term campaign found some secrets,
ass with digital ads, and you know they have this magic recipe that you know that big they can hack into our brains and figure it out when the election that way and Democrats, it's not that it goes back to. How do you communicate with voters right? This is the the the decision that every
campaign has to make us. What do you say to voters and how do you say to them where, where do you reach them? Where do you find them and it used to be
that you found a lot of voters most voters on television.
There were three news channels and everyone watch the nightly news and then, if you ran a political add that's how you got your message across
in addition to getting
stories on the nightly news about your campaign that day, that world is gone and has been good,
for a very long time and it is increasingly harder to find the voters
HU. We need to win the elections, not very engaged partisans on both sides, but the
so we are talking about earlier when the impeachment hearing staff, who are either cynical,
by politics or who were disengage from politics who casually pay attention to the news. Where do you find those people you find them on their phone?
they are not watching television anymore they're, not watching the news, any more. Even older people who are the most reliable television watchers or now on Facebook
more than ever young people or on their phones there on instagram there on Snapchat right and the question is our democratic campaigns reaching people where they are? How do you figure out a way to reach people where they are?
in the trunk campaign, like you said not through genius, but by necessity, because they were so far behind in the republican prime.
For so long and didn't. They would be Hillary Clinton and think they're gonna get out spent by Hillary Clinton. They had to
out of necessity, figure out ways to reach people in hard to reach places on Facebook and and test ads, and do all this kind of shit and the Trump campaign will you know. Bluff was talking about those Dave, Plover stung with us that, like Brad Pascal basically admitted that it was out of necessity that they did this
they were able to take risks and be creative because they didn't have any other shot. Democratic campaigns aren't as willing to take those risks. Em
you said we are at a moment when our all of these candidates are focusing on
the primary as they should be. But that means that there's only
one side that is reaching,
there's where a lot of them are, which is on Facebook or some of the other platforms weather
There also running a fun you two on cable right, the term campaign spending money everywhere and they are
you. People where they are with message is that they are testing in real time to see if they work in real time. Not some like
focus group in Paul and then they go into the field afterwards. They're, sending our messages
testing and they're getting the feedback in their changing their ads and on our side. You know
no priorities, USA, which is the big democratic super pack on our side, said that they are actually now outspending Trump in some of the battleground states on Digital, the six battleground states that are the closest, which is great good for priorities. We ve talked a lot about acronym
terror Mcgowan's organization, that David Bluff is now sitting on thereabout to launch an entire effort to go fun. Digital advertising, that's as creative and interesting is what the term campaign has been doing so that's great to but
like you have to believe in magic to think that digital advertising is effective. It's just about communicating
voters and where you do it and how right
like in a just as we were like. Let's leave no stone unturned right, like that. I did like them how it works, how effective it is like that's gonna matter in the execution, but what I do
fundamentally believe, is in its not yet like the thing we just can't do again is the digital advertising having over here and the press apartments happening over here. It's all of a piece
all of a strategy of persuasion and push back and
being the conversation american politics because try.
Has all the wounded is back in doing this. He is a giant Billy Paul, but he has a state, run propaganda rotation, thee,
economics of digital ads on media outlets, push towards trump content, facebooks algorithm brochures from product, so we need an all
all hands on deck holistic effort to push back on it
very atmospheric, send insidious my party's inverse anything can happen in does the more the married once get in there get this done good! Ok! On that note,
We will see you guys next week and because everyone is still travel
different places, I believe that you in love it are doing the Monday pod next week we are none
Tommy and I are doing the Thursday pod next. We will both be on the road to so that as the schedule for next week and everyone have a great weaken one day, people write books about the effort to reward those.
Today by reliable, nobby writing. Other pod. Save America is a product of cricket media, the senior producers, Michael Martinez, our system produced.
Jordan Waller its mixed in edited by Andrew Chadwick
Kyle Certain, as our sounded junior thanks to Carolyn
Tom you so mediator and came off production support into our digital team. Elijah co, normal Coney and Yell freed in my will camp who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-30.