Jon, Jon, Tommy, and Priyanka discuss the finale episode of Game of Thrones and look back on the politics of the series.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Spoiler alert this is an episode about game of thrones is littered with spoiler. It's only spoilers, just tripping. Spoiler. You haven't right. You're, gonna, watch, game of thrones turn this up right now, just take the episode off your phone. Until you, Welcome to plod save the realm. I knew I was wondering what he was going to do. I'm John Fabra, I'm John Lovett it sometime, but we we wrap up our game of Thrones commentary that was sort of impromptu it during the last couple, plus, if Mereka process and not talk about the finale talk about the show We have Priyanka okay, here, one of men who has been used all of game of thrones within.
A little less than a month, so she could make the valley so proud. Eo. I have a few questions. We got what What were our initial reactions to the Fanelli? I don't know if I should start with that. One can go anywhere, but I'm short initial takes. I'm mostly grateful for eight years of amazing television, and I don't want to be one of those fucking people that just winds about a show, but the finale stuck you know, but just be real. I mean like if you agree to suspend disbelief for a show, because there are rules that are set up for the the thing that's constructed, the tie it all together weeks. We love game of thrones because plot points from season to get tied up in season five and just none of that happened
here. My pain love it. So I will say the finale was not the worst episode of the season. The worst episode of the season was the fourth episode, which is the worst episode in the series. I thought that the beginning was actually beautifully made and now I'm not going to I'm not going to rehash the nearest turn and use that to color this episode. I'm just accepting that and then looking at this episode on its own terms- and I thought they did a really great job, like I thought seeing her as this other force. This outsider commanding this in rebel Army with this weapon of mass destruction, seeing her in her full Darth Vader mode. I appreciate it I I said I thought it looked beautiful. I thought they made it work. I thought that what happened with nearest San John made sense. I liked how surprising it was given how early it happened in the episode. I thought it was the most one of those beautiful moments in the series when the dragon, when drogon is so overtaken by grief, but doesn't want to kill John and kind of just
raise the throne. I thought that was well done. I destroys a metaphor. I yes, I am. I am avoiding allowing myself to believe that drogon finally turned on the abstraction of power, but I same as represented by the chair. I don't take it as a our pal into Greenwald over the ringer said in some of in that moment drogon becomes Brett Stevens. He just becomes a pundit and he was just like after all, this time he's eating goats he's just like it and then all the sudden he was like this is a metaphor that I don't like, so I took it more of like when, like you know, a character doesn't want to punch somebody, so they punch the wall next to that person, that's how I took it. That's the interpretation, I'm most interested in, but then the show evolves to a PTA meeting and holy shit. The scene where Khalisi is at the top of the steps in the dragon takes off behind her in the wings or momentarily like it was their beautiful shots. There were things that were really cool but yeah the Pca meeting list,
going to say I love the first half. I thought that the character arcs for a lot of our favorite characters with major exceptions, ended pretty well, but the the p team, and I even like the start of the PTA meeting the start of the council seem promising and then I just the branding is a that's. My two major problems of the episode are obviously the choice of brand and the choice of how John got back to the north, I think, John being in the north. At the end, was a fine place for him to end, but how he got there made zero snow said. No one gives a shit with grey worm things I just want everyone to know. There was no one lives in shit with grey worm thinks I also just sort of
what's gray were arms mindset. You know he has this prisoner. That was taking orders from the prisoner in the PTA meeting. I will say we had a we, so we we did a live, show at the anthem in DC and then the anthem graciously agreed to show game of thrones on the big screen after so we watched in this and the theater is a couple of us just a couple of us and it was really great. The end of staff and some a so we all just watch together, does very fine and then, when SAM gets up to give his speech about democracy and for a moment I was starting to like literally shake with anger. That Not only was the show going to end with democracy, but that John was going to be right. I was going to fucking lose it. We were all looking at each other. We couldn't believe it and then, when they laughed, I felt very relieved now I will say to John's credit. They do have they diminish democracy and then actually introduce a kind of nation. Feudal lords selection process, which is better than the yeah well, this guy
the air the I whatever. What's it called when a kid gets it from the parent? What's that called succession sure whatever they do, that we need to be at no, so this gets to my a bigger problem with the finality to I I wasn't like, except when sims are giving his his speech. I started get I'm so anxious because I was like this is the wrong way to to it like because I know the reason I was saying. I said when we talk about democracy, that I thought some vague notion of democracy would come to This rose is because there is no way. No fucking right that show could have been set up for mass democracy. First people all across the realm voting like that was silly and I'm really glad that they made fun of it and it made it seem silly, but where it should have ended up if they were going towards a more democratic direction which they did is and where I thought they were going to end up is like I love that sunset gets the north and then all those other
people at the council, Greyjoy Yard, Greyjoy Iron islands had also previously been independent at one point, Dorn had previously been independent at one point by the way the new king of Dorne, just no one knows who he is, he's like sitting there. I'm in a shallow, though, to the kid from the eerie who was a breast feeding at age. Thirteen, like a total weirdo later no three seasons ago, turned out that way. So pretty well for coming to upstanding young man, Robin Robin really turns out well know until like no one no one. Has any objections to Sansa being like, oh by the way as people twitter calling it she went. Winter fix it. So she she goes to the n. She gets to be queen everyone else like fine and then, instead of just having like one council and then everyone else having like autonomous kingdoms, there like no no break. Brands going to take this. But here's my problem with like t being gives this speech where he
recommend brand as the leader, and he talks about how that was the vision to break the wheel. But in no way is that breaking the wheel, the wheel was the The lannisters are on top. The tar Garian is on top the Nebraska and then a stark getting rid of him to get down to your done like succession or dynastic rule is not the wheel. The wheel is that you have these, like mini king, these little feudal lords fighting it out constantly to see who's on the iron throne. So what we do, then, is we name this weirdo, who immediately outsources the role of king to to go search for dragon. For some reason, it was carrying a corpse still heading e, on whatever I ninety five and then tirion now oversees the realm and like I'm, to believe that we, when he dies- or maybe he breaks bad too they'll, just fight it out for the next kings. Like I don't think that they into use democracy in anyway, like I thought your prediction made a lot of sense, but in they may we try to deliver on that, but they ultimately didn't. So I am
what the brand is the problem with why they didn't. But I was I I disagree. I do think breaking the wheel was and- and then there's a very specific when you said it's family after family after family, and then it's handed down through succession And so you know this is the live. Lannister tear, Garion breathy in Stark, Tyrell, they're, all just spokes, on a wheel, this one's on top then that one's on top in on on it spins crushing those on the ground. I'm to stop. We on the break, we'll to me. That's you're just broke right in the family. Let me just not there yeah, but when, when because brain can have kids the then they vote. It's not going to be, it doesn't have to be another stark, it can be, can be a family that wasn't one of those families that she lists yeah. But I don't like I've been then I think we're really suspending look whatever also spending displayed, but then we think that the bunch of feudal law, we're going to pick someone outside of that group. To me, that is the wheel. It's just that same collection of people choosing among themselves, I'm going to say one more nice thing and I'm going to fuckin lose its ok last night I thought the ending was nice. It look nice now to this insane decision to have it go to Brandan this council.
So I am choosing to take a dark ending to all of this, that What we saw is a kind of quiet moment in this kingdom, but what they're actually set up for is just another round of the exact same more. That's it. Series began with a king who is interested in ruling with no real errors and a bunch of very powerful houses who decided upon that king's death that, throne, belonged to them? That is it. Exactly where we will be when brand steps down now. I think that this episode mostly worked, but the problem is this season has like four mortal sins that are unforgivable and even though I think George R Martin told them where to go that this was the sort of a really they really is treated their fans and they really mistreated the world one. Sir the super villain of the series, one of the great villains in all
L isn't one of the one of the great female characters in the show that I think was a defense against the criticisms of it being so misogynistic towards a lot of female characters. But it certainly was over the years they had built using incredible female characters. Searcy was given nothing to do this season, a super villain, Literalis Kuching by her enemies, as she leaves two. If you know, because George R Martin told you that brand is the ultimate ruler of Kingdom give him a personality, lasted about a half years and then third mortal sin is the thing is that the nearest term, which I don't think they aren't? But all of that to me is is are the big sense, but it hides the smaller problem, which is all of our great characters, became so incredibly stupid, Tyrion, who is just in jail for six weeks. We know because he said it's been six weeks goes and says: here's how you pick a king dies. You need somebody with a good story. That is a subjective reason to pick a king and they're all like okay, we're with you who has the best story. Is it's our Yahoo kill
the night king. Is it Sansa who overcame incredible hardship to become a leader in the north? Is it Jon Snow, the rightful heir who Kate rose from the dead? No, it's brand and everyone's like okay, I'm cool with that, but this is what's so frustrating about it in a show about stories. The only expert on who has the best stories is US we all watched it, we are the audience for their stories. We are one hundred percent certain that brand story is the best fucking want. This is longer than tirion speech in God and less effective, so gotta unpack. Some of that. If there's a lot of evidence that Martin does believe that you know or did plan for brand to be the king at the end he starts the first book from brands, point of view and there's you know book readers as it is like sort evidence throughout you're, absolutely right, love it like, if, if you know brand brands going to end up the king like there, there there's an argument, there's maybe I'll try to make the best argue.
For, even though I don't really believe it for why brand rules at the end, the real fucked up line that they gave here is it's the person with the best story right before that he does say who better to do that? and someone who knows all of our stories knows our history knows everything. That's ever happened, and so then you can imagine. Maybe they do something where it's like. You know those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it kind of trope and then the person who knows literally every single thing that happened. The realm is useful because they know everyone else's story, but then so that maybe they could have done that if they, you know, did a better job but to go right from like. If a person with the best story, we can't say that he is the best story that doesn't make sense, but he also in addition to your what you just said about brand knowing all of history. He could change it, he could travel to times, union that closed door hold the door right, and so, if this
I have an upset about this raw, the fact that they did not and that that whole wedding was just about hold or could be on that. If this silent weirdo could have prevented a genocide, why didn't he and then? Why does that? Make him the best tea right so outlook? And these my and then he smiles like? Why do you think I came All this when you came, I was I wanted to take care of a question, my hair routes. What what do you think? I came all this way. I don't know, you were interested in murdering all of king's landing. You psychopath you little math weirdo have to say it doesn't. It doesn't bode well for Brandon's governance that his first act as king is blatant nepotism by his sister to rule the n. Now, if no one else gets in rat fucking, his brother be grey worm wants him to to go defend a wall that shouldn't exist anymore, because we were all told the night king was tags. We saw sciences She had no idea, and it's have no idea what happened to those kids in
north that make nice things where they out what what happened? Cancers. Kids yeah with that I wanted like a. I wanted some kind of blue eyes at the end there, because they made a big deal and that episode way way back of I'm casters kids of that night, king, giving a baby blue eyes which is not you know, changing a dead person into white. That's like something we hadn't seen before. Oh yeah. I forgot about that. That meant nothing. They never they never. What is the three had been reviewed? Six episodes of an alley to them were chit chat, setting up characters in their final moments, with each other who did did die and continue to have moments after by the way, it's another sort of like the craziest fans, personal lot of fanfiction dialogue where characters are constantly spurred referencing things. They said an old season which we remember because it was in a lot of trailers, but why would they they're constantly referring to things they said to each other years earlier, whatever, and then you make Braun who punch him in the face and threatened with a crossbow like three and one slash two hours ago, like yet you're in charge of the money he's a thief keep the murderer? He's up his he's brought the
throw and now he's in charge of the money makes no sense. What do you think the iron bank is thinking right now? They invest, all that money and the golden company and here's the and now the Hilton King's landings were down there. Isn't there like? They have a bank, there is a debt crisis, a lot of it's like Lehman Brothers, a lot of guys moving their boxes out and we we care center. There is a down graded credit rating for Western yeah yeah there there there, but he that yeah, the the Lannister bond, getting drunk. We parts favorite parts of the financial good things, Ansett telling and more telly has down was fantastic. Maybe the best part of the whole uncle sit down. The only thing that made me feel was a weeping c GI dragon which I don't think speaks well to the rest of the episode, but it was really cool. Well, it tells a lot because for as well, you know, I think that has to do with that we're dog owners and so we're a full seventy minutes off like that. But what does it say that so many people suddenly felt sympathy for drogon. In that my
bill. It limits face right. Now is a lot of sympathy for yet we're all like how could the nearest to him- and he just literally kill mass murder. I dryers city I was struck, and it was. It was very pooping. It was very moving. I was just struck by how dirty how how they did drogon so dirty for, like this poor dragon, one of three magical creatures impossible, never seen not seen in hundreds of years, one of his siblings dies because of a dumb fucking position. Take to do show and tell with Sir see that came to nothing. Another one dies because they didn't look forward break ahead because they because they can I didn't look forward. No one else look forward and then your mom dies because she has a weird character, turn that wasn't fully just right now, you're alone, and it just like drove gun. I'm sorry for what happened to you, I'm sorry that no one treated dragons with the respect
they deserved, and I hope you find happiness in you know violent or wherever you go. Where is I going the like? Have we have basically just brand the brand's first order of business is to deal with a nuclear weapon. That is just right: roaming around do the roll this I'm going solo, so I bought a trial in that here. I do think I Dan and Benji, and I were just sing after the finale there was an immediate conference, call to discuss every episode and and very strongly that I missed that. Dialing, you think is John is mute. We we were discussing the fact that it seems like when brand goes to war, to find the dragon that there seems to be There could have been a moment where he successfully found the dragon, and we saw some kind of click here, because you know I have my my view of the end. The series was that we were going to get a sense of these characters as the legends that
were in a world where magic was gone and that basically happens right. They present literally a song of ice and fire. I think that the like midway through, I believe in God, didn't happen at all. There's no magic left in the world, the dragons are gone. Then I kings on dragons are still roaming around Well, maybe the dragon went off. Is it sort of we don't yeah? I mean Rand's, worrying that there's all the I mean, except for the making dying all the measures that have been in the world in the passes in the world. The faceless men are still running around somewhere like I well, I'm just specifically speak right now. In the round there, no dragons there's no threat from the night king. They present a copy of George R R Martin's game of thrones for a signature. They open up. Looked your sinus. Which I thought was fine, but but I love the wasn't in there, which is really make it sense, for God, war for tirion there so funny stuff, but series of ends like you know what we're kind of back where we started. I kind of appreciate that which meant which made I think that we were going to get a shot of a dragon saying like yep. This is going to come back. The dragons are coming back on
dangers of the leg somewhere yeah, that's what I thought was going to see some fucking dragon eggs because every season of game of thrones, I think pretty much correct me. If I'm wrong, I think literally every single season's with uh. You know- and this was the only one that doesn't so I was a bit frustrating. It did feel like odd moment. 'cause branches is sort of rolled out of the room, saying I'm going to look for a dragon end of brand character. So I liked the conversation between John Interior and they said about love being the death of duty and duty being the death of love and all that kind of stuff, because they
Congress. That that kind of conversation is what I wanted more of in the last couple episodes like I could it one of the things they did in this, because this is the problem, is both Danny and Sears see stopped being point of view, characters in the last couple episodes? And so you didn't see from their perspective why they were making the decisions. They did why they were doing the things they did, and so that's, like Sears, he's standing there with a you know a glass of wine for watching the destruction of the city. It would've been great friend, have I have a few more conversations with some. I mean she had sort of bad characters around her by the end, but the mute giant yeah exactly so. That's probably why, but, like you know, maybe
and Jamie talking more about like how she lost the kingdom white, you know and then and Danny especially you would have you. I wanted to hear Danny talk a little bit more about why she did what she did, because we heard it between Jon and Tyrion. These sort of wanted to hear it from Danny herself and it was a good scene with John I mean I think, a milieu carp play those scenes fantastically because she wasn't, she didn't show that she was totally mad at all. It was like half political calculation, half mad like there was a lot of mix and she's played it well, but I would like to her here her explain a little bit more why she did what she did. You know there might be a little bit of how mad men ended in that double spoiler. This is the longest Bernie, I'm mad men, but that but they're in the finals he's a madman. He hasn't seen it. This were there from the finals in the mad men. They were just as much as I hate get a main characters together.
I want to see Peggy and on what are we doing? Why are they all gone? Why are they all thrown to the wind like show me my characters together these people that they did? I love you ok meeting and it didn't work, but yeah PTA meeting doesn't did at the top of the steps were like aria, just kind of sort of saddles up next to John hey. What's going on while she's, given a psychotic speech in dothraki about how she's going to massacre the world stay tuned? Where was the white horse with understood what I know a lot of things that interest you? I just but also just you know, Sir see talk today at like another, didn't like I, these characters having their final conversation and it really felt like you know they ended up with they had this art that they had designed for this final six episodes to just sort of rap it up and just be done with this series
and there is no point in which anyone said: hey we're not there. Yet this isn't done. This is under. This is one slash two baked fucking cake here, Danny doing what she did makes sense, but they introduced ambiguity about whether she was the fifty percent of our family, that is nuts or whether she did it for some political reason or whether she felt betrayed, and we never answered that question and I think it would have been that's the most interesting part of the show. Are these very complicated characters like a Jaime lannister who we've loved we've hated. We've gotten kind back into, but he ends by being at a total in to what's her face and ran and running back to his sister. You know it's like it's. A complicated fun character was silent. Let's have a John who's. The other sort of besides brand was my biggest question of the finale. Like so John is the one true a,
air to the throne of fact that a secret that a lot of people know now, because science is spilled, the beans he was instrumental in if not he didn't, kill the night king, but getting everyone to focus on the dead and the night king. He then kills Daenerys who's like a threat to the realm and basically they're like yeah. You know what gray worms a little pissed, yeah great joy said she. She was bending the needs of the nearest, so we got to send you out of here, even though your brother is the new king, Sunsu rules, the n were going to say, like I, nobody even gonna raise it. No, no they're going to be like when he's on he's. Actually the point of order like if they had said even if they had said like look, we can't have another king Slayer or Queen Slayer as king, and so you have to meet. You know like they didn't didn't, even give a good explanation for
or why he needed to go n again grey worm and all those people are going to die and not reproduce because they got their Jennys cut off. Right. So he's not someone. I would sweat. Also Jon Snow's, only reaction to literally everything. This whole season was firm Brow and a sniff, you know so his character went from legitimately someone you rooted forward, interesting to just boring and annoying and like Maybe we were set up to believe that he was in love with an area and then that's why watching her torch, infinity, Sm children. Was it didn't turn him in it? You need to hear from Tyrion that he was the flare and that she was bad whatever we've been set up to believe that so many of these characters are in love with Khalisi throughout season like for a while Peter Dinklage was in love with Khalisi. That was whole thing we are out of out of that up in to John too yeah. I know I thought the joint that that trying to convince John was, like you know, trying to convince when your friends that their significant others really had for
and they not John knew it John knew it through that whole conversation, but he couldn't really get there like that, but then he got there because he stabbed in the heart for at least look Jon Snow benefited this season from the fact that he's been dumps in season one, so he didn't get dumber he's actually the only character in the show that didn't get like they can lose. Like thirty few points between season six in season, eight real, dumb tirion got incredibly dumb for poor varus. Poor viruses the smartest guy. You know slinking around Kingsland and planned S, figure things out and he's like. I got a plan to get as he was. He got, as I told you so through teary, and at the end I like to for to a burnt corpse, he did try to kill her. You know, but this is way possible. He all drumming like he got and I got a we're trying to poison her. I got a weird vibe off arise in that, but but like sending out, the ravens telling Tyrion is planned and tear so so very has a big plan to kill to to kill the nearest and said it is doing it. He tells Tyrion and then tear in
one of the heroes of the show. The smartest man in the realm overcame all of the adversity faced in his life walks up to Neros and went Varus is trying to kill you and I think it's bad. That was the end of Paris that had varus wrong. They did their spider nigger that one but biggest unanswered questions biggest unanswered questions everything about brand yeah. What is he going to do? What are his powers, which we still don't know? Why was he just laying in wait this whole time and if he was waiting to be king? Why is the outsourcing it to Terion, who are the fucking children of the forest? What is the deal with the three eyed raven? Why did the night king turned out to be such a little like punk, who couldn't win anything? I mean that to me was really in looking back in the whole series. I would have loved if the ending was all the various realms coming together to fight the night king and that's how we find some sort of democratic accommodation. I think it would've been a better battle that would have rushed us through this seemingly invincible enemy. With one little
tiny stab it already. I didn't get to do anything cool in the finale yeah. What do you think we think about Aria the explorer I like it. Who are the characters land actually like the shots of behind each of our characters. Kind of cut between I thought was a beautiful and poignant idea that, like we end up with the start to the north and a stark to the south and start to the west and in some sense of start to the e, because brand is warning to find the dragon. So I found that poignant and made sense to me. It was just that the speed with which we got there but like it, it makes sense. I guess that, given all she's been through the areas so broken inside, that she's, like get me outta here, I'm getting on a ship, but I'm just going away like her family doesn't give
Yes, the guy piece. I guess they were both. I guess you're just like used to having her not around, for what like I was trying to think of where indoor cat. I was trying to think of where are you could have been like? Doesn't make sense for her to be senses? Hand to the queen? That's just not her, you know doesn't make sense for her, obviously to be with Gendry New, Lord of whatever he's Lord in you know, I think I think it made sense for her. I think it made sense for John to be in the n. The ending I would have like to seen is John gets the throne because he is we've been told. The entire series we've been the entire, series that they do get thrown should be like the rightful heir he is the rightful heir to the throne. He you know leads the world against the night king. He kills Denny and then he could have said that he didn't want it. He wanted to go to. The n makes the choice to go to the n. Then leaves brand in the rest of them as a council and right, you know and then release it to SAM who then, as king implements, is democracy idea, whatever
something like that, otherwise, that would've been it would've, been cool for John to make the choice at the end, as opposed to basically then making the choice for John, because uh grey worm is pissed, shut up criminal and then three minutes later they call that speech convince. Everybody is also bizarre that tirion tirion is, you know a prisoner because he supposedly committed treason, but Brant makes him hand of the king after he gives us each in John sent away. It doesn't like what is tirion get it's like. I will give you the ultimate punishment being the second most powerful in all the land they want. I mean wow, that was you know what your matic irony being hands to brand the the broken king that actually might be the best
punish me thinking that three when when when he introduces them, if there was, if there is a twitter in Leicester US when when terrain goes, I introduce you brand, the broken never be like. Excuse me, why are you identify him that way that is so unfair to him? I do that was like brand, the broken you. We say the whole thing about brand, the vision, Branagh seer, no brand the broken, because a debt pushed him out of a window a day. Way to go fuck you brand the broken we brainstorm. Can we come up with a better fucking name? Then brand the broken? There is no detail too small for you I just ran the broken like I guess it. Rhymes like brand, the brave warmer and the survivor. I go episode like cripples bastards broken things and then there's like a play on the broken wheel. I think that's why they called them that I still don't know why every king needs a nickname. You know other than Khandan Copd also didn't they say in it.
What brand can even have kids and they say that in that the in a moment yeah. I don't like that. I, like, like Medical, that's just specific thing like how to how to to something now. What a weird thing to know is there? Somebody listening, they just sort of like will say in passing what we need and then the things like I well, we got it. We need some place to send criminals, so we're going to have a night's watch to what dick around and dig holes what the fuck with in the night to watch crew is there's a bunch of little kids, running n was wondering where they were going to earth? Why were there so many little children J in Spain never gets to have gets to meet Brianne and have a nice moment with her. Clearly the one she should have chosen, I see, I've been ends by do sort of like I did. Writing a love letter of the guy that dumped her. I didn't mind her writing Jamies Rick Wikipedia entry. I did the memes about that were some of the best on Twitter, especially the one that just showed her adding. He was also a fuck boy.
I found that really moving. I felt I thought when doing Chris at that she did such a wonderful job in a moment that could have been really maudlin and kind of against the character. To kind of she really did it with such, like it did make sense for her character. I don't why Disney could have come across as sort of like I don't know I pathetic, but it wasn't it was it was I I thought she did it with sort of real him to just carry yourself so well in that character, even even though the character itself was given this thirty minute fucking dumb thing. Where is there is not, which is out, rushed God, damn it. Speaking of Winterfell and the violent world of game of thrones. Remember the infamous red wedding episode. Of course you do I'm asking the question: well, scottish ACT, Richard Madden is a long way from Robb Stark and his golden Globe winning role in the hit series bodyguard. I like that, show yeah Emily watch that show and
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So it's a win, win win! Yes, cash out. Let's get someone up here who is binge the entire series of game of thrones over the last couple weeks to get get a a of cricket media zone? Priyanka Arab Indy is here, she's been tweeting about it. There's been a wonderful thread on Twitter, Priyanka Habria, guys going like this at Abrams of Game of Thrones Threads Game of Thrones thing now. Oh no! That is pretty long, oh, Yeah I've been doing this show is really interesting because there we're very few things that the big twist. I guess that you probably all were very surprised by like I knew a lot of things going in just because the red, when everyone that one was interesting, because I knew it was going to happen, but I didn't really know any of the contacts
that was one of the actual surprises of this shit. You were tweeting like wow. That scene was terrible but yeah, and then I was like holy shit. That's the red wedding, that's what you guys are talking about, but there. So much that I like new of about beforehand, so that inform my perception of the characters, interest and even as this season was going along, I don't know like I had The inkling that Danny goes bad because that was what everyone was talking about at work, so it was like. Ok, I was behind, but kinda we talk about politics, we just never. We don't just talk about that scene. Did it make you feel crazy being in that world for that many hours in a row. No! Actually. I have been steps I mean I feel like I really did it on weekends and the first week was really strong, so I got there like three seasons in one week. Well, What did you think about it? Yeah, a
okay, so my like hottest take. I thing is that I wouldn't have stuck with it. If I wasn't binging, I think there are definitely peaks. There are a lot of values that you got to get through there like so much exposition. It's really cool. I appreciate it. You know like what goes into creating this world ends at the end. It, like really is this huge. Epic bet that's amazing, but there were so many. Story lines and things that I would like my funds coming out. Let me think we maybe spend a little too much time and I actually was about to Stannis so and I was like now I'm I'm out on the SAM, SAM and Gilly. Couldn't could not care less, they were just like peace like time went, really slow
Lee for stretches and then like the pace rapidly accelerated. So when people kind of got annoyed, I feel like towards the end. Maybe this is just an in the point of the season. Eight that you guys were. I felt people being like. I don't like this or like the latest couple. Seasons were weird or different or off. I was kind of like oh the actions picking up starting by this season six, so I was like I'm in on this battle of bastards cool. Like I'm, that's fascinating to me, because it is funny that the main critique of or one of the big critiques of game of thrones throughout the seasons is there be a lot of people who are like. Why are we following the storyline? It's so boring, there's not enough action and then all the sudden in in the end of six seven and eight, it's all action
everyone's like it's too fast, which both might be true, but it is interesting how that it does speak to like this sort of rules, issue right, if you're going to make this like season long journey from south to north and then all the sudden you're there in fifteen minutes like it just annoying, but they were fucking, they were, they were warping around that map. Again, it's really interesting to hear your perspective on this, because I think for a lot of people, certainly for the three of us. We don't have a lot of appointment tv in our life, but this became that get together with friends and you order food and you have a drink and you hang out and it becomes a thing. You look for one night of that and it was very fun I was like. Oh, I wish. I had been around for a couple more episodes of lists yeah we do need it is now we are new, every show, and I think what it. What a would a show like this is. It has to be violent enough to keep us engaged, but smart enough, that we don't feel guilty and we can
watch it together. What would your favorite moments from the series that what everyone's favorite moment from now this series that stuff I mean? I liked the action there were things where I feel like anything. That was a surprise to me just because there were so many like it was coming with Jon Snow, like I knew, was coming with NED Stark, even in the beginning like that was the big one where people were like weren't you so like yeah shocked- and I was like now- I've known that for years, just existing in the internet and like around makes this show really hard to watch, and I wonder how people coming in now, like I feel like you going to be able to once the shock value is gone yeah. What is right, but I'm I don't know my favorite moments, probably wore like those big epic battles, Ian's glass sellable last week because last when you're just like what but what's happening with the with the torches go out. That is like one of the better. My
it's in the whole series. I think when the torches go out which which way in in the in the final balance the night king of all the torches yeah one was created, it's very cool that is pretty cool. That was wild. I I, I think that Circe blown up the Sept is that that that episode, yeah is winds of winter there. At the end, the last episode of season six is probably my favorite episode that awesome. Well, there's the that season was when I was like. Oh, this is why I've been watching the show like finally we're getting to learn Johns paired today's jobs, there's people that I mean a lot of things start clicking in that last episode. You know I there's an article in scientific American by Zane up to fetch e, which I think everyone should read. I believe Michael sent it to me 'cause. You thought I would like it. He was correct, but what she makes this point is that what made the game with their own special in the first six seasons was that it was. It was a sociological show, not a psychological, show and part of the reason the show was so exciting and different and engaging
part of what George R Martin did was kind of overturned these tropes and the way he did it was. This isn't a show about the individual journeys of characters and their psychological experience of the world is about systems and the architecture of power. To the point where you can have someone like NED Stark, who thinks he's doing everything right and then little finger, turn zoom grab some says you should have trusted me or you can someone like go after someone like that, Terrell's and- and you have now. I know you just watched it. Marjorie find Marjorie Torreilles when you love in route for who knows what's going to happen and deserves a chance to fight back and fucking figured it out, and she still gets blown up in the Sept, because that's just how this world work did not see what the power in that moment
an it was what allowed characters to die in the red winning in the show still feel like it could move forward and how heroes could be cut down in the middle of their stories, and then it shifts in its final season and a half, and it becomes a much more traditional psychological show, which I think is in some ways in addition to the pacing quite, was so unsatisfying and why those early moments are so captivating, because now it's just a show about these hero, arcs and their own personal journeys and their own transitions and stopping them or helping them, and that to me made it feel a bit more ordinary. In the end. I do think to the extent that this is a show about politics and power and political power. You know, Martin. I've asked the question throughout the show. What makes a good leader right, because that who's, who should win the game of thrones and he actually goes through with all these characters, the different qualities in a leader like? Is it honesty and forthrightness? Well know: Netstart gets his head cut off right? Is it and then he talked about all the things that you know like love right, like sort of ended up the the death of rob,
dark and Jaime Lannister and many other characters right like. Is it someone with the the ideology? Is it like a revolutionary like danarius, like maybe that's the person who's going to free people? Well, you have to be careful about revolutionaries because sometimes they get too much power and that's corrupting too so can. It goes, and basically his answer at the end is go brand. Well, there's no right! There's no right! Human qual, there's no right quality for leadership of one person, because when you give too much power to one person, there's a problem, you know, but then the the problem is and then because brand he ends up with Brandt as leader and brands, not really human, what it spread brands just as far
in weirdo he's basically like the Wikipedia entry for all of the realm, and everyone is going to become a tree. I guess when did he become a fucking shit? I don't know where does he become a tree, but it was edit edits best it in a lot of these conversations where with tirion Danny or among the lannisters or people like that, were conversations about power and stuff like that and you're right at the at the end, because it had to rap everything up. We didn't get a lot of that, and so it's sort of went a little quick. You know, I think my favorite parts were just the the character developments that happened over a long time, like I remember, feeling genuinely emotional about the whole door, hold the door Ark. I thought that Aterian in Jamies little like bro love fests in the n,
with a genuinely moving that was a great scene and- and it was amazing to watch where they like, especially this is all really fresh in my mind, like a month ago from here but like to watch season one and be like. Oh, you hate them season. One ended yeah, like kind of amazing, to watch those characters. Yes, first I'd redeem themselves, also kind early on when Khalisi was transitioning from the horrible situation, with the dothraki to being the boss, that, with beloved in like on the up that wasn't exciting fun time where you want it to root for her, and everyone had a favorite for awhile and you're, like fuck yeah Kelis he's going to this thing yeah. That was I I agree like I watched them all leading up to this two and it was amazing to go back and watch the very first episode, because you really see how much was set in motion in those first moments, and it's partly why this ending is so disappointing. Is that you meet all the wolves. You meet this whole world. You kind of introduce these characters, and then you watch them really changing grow, which we've never seen on a show before not like this, and like that, one of the most point in moments to me is
when Santa hugs Theona Mall people. Could you actually don't know what her reaction is going to be to him? And she genuinely happy to see him? And so I thought, and you know another moment I think- do captures the Show- is Aria getting so close to seeing her family, before the red wedding grabbing her and saying it's already over their dad. You know we had to go because it did capture the kind of tragedy of this world where you're, not in control of your destiny, that there are forces larger than you that our operations rather than you know. That is something I do you, but I hope people take that in how I would like to see more of that. I do think that that's why game of thrones was ultimately so successful beyond all the magic and expense, and everything else is that it really did say what happens if we explore were- where the politics actually dictate outcomes away, doesn't our actual world and it's not handed out her relic individual and that it's always messy, and I said that's what I did
even though getting there was a mess and there's a lot of weird part about the finale tirion in the small council sitting around the table at the end, basically having what EJ who works there, cricket media called infrastructure. We talking about the sewers in this and how are they gonna fix that? I liked it because it basically I mean as you were saying, love it. Maybe all this bad stuff happens again now with brain is king right, which is very which they leave is very possible not like. It's not a happy ending in that. Like you know, now, politics is going to be one, full in the realm right, but it does go to show that, like there is just the messy business of governing that they get to. That is like not that see that there I'll just trying to work things out and that they're fallible and they're probably going to fuck up again and and that's all that makes it all the more powerful and poignant where in a world where being a hero, doesn't always count that individuals actually still can. Shape history and shape things even despite despite the power system. Actually, the thing that's on
right now that I think it's it's odd, but Chernobyl, which is hard to watch but really worth watching. She explores a lot of this in the same way like individuals in a broken system in which the system is dictating all kinds of heinous outcomes are trying their best to help people and be human in a communist soviet system, and so I just it's interesting to see other explorations of that same theme, but I do think it's actually part of this moment in peak tv, where we're seeing people try to find other ways to stories because we're so saturated by so many different versions of the antihero, overcoming the odds because there drugs and it also has a show that we've had heroes for a long time and television than we had sort of the Anti euro. You know era, and this is a show that said, no one is purely evil or purely good,
that everyone has some evil and some good in them, and the fact that we can go from hating characters. You know like Jaime Lannister pushes bran out of a foot, window and at the end, we're like this ending good enough for Jamie. We love Jimmy not on a journey to two worth. That's a really good story telling that you can actually feel for these people. An and engineers went the opposite way. I saw theme getting lunch and what salad that's cool, didn't, say hi didn't want to bug them We saw yeah, you yeah, the we saw whenever we were on. We were on the Chelsea Handler show. We saw SAM yeah, he was so nice little did. He know his pitch for democracy would be sky that, like us, Mitch Mcconnell Profile whose who, who is it? Maybe my dog will vote for PS, two yeah. That was that was the that was uncle a guitar. Who got shot down. Given his fucking, I'm a general, I have experience
That was great. The fact that, given that speech is ridiculous, the fat sounds a told me I was in and out yes, so for his for his speech. Yeah it was it was it felt. Like a you know, Jj Speech, it was good, a last thought for everyone, hello yeah, I am my biggest seems- sounds lame to say this is my biggest gripe with the whole series of time where the dragons were like in the catacombs, and it seemed almost like an heiress was like. Scared of them 'cause. We couldn't watch roll them. They killed the kid like. Were there where she couldn't really yeah. We never got to see like how she actually rain, and then the driver got them to do what she was saying that freak. I don't know she seemed fairly in control of them. She just kind of ends up on the back at one point and like she's flying around and directing them like. There was a point in time where they took note action and we saw nothing about my mind. They were teens yeah but like angsty, steamboat acne, teens yeah.
I just kind of like we're like okay, cool we're, gonna strip to like SAM or whatever story, is relevant and then come back and they're like okay, fine, like we're good. They say they're wooden's when from very hard to very easy, and we never really know why yep, but then they figured out how to burn a turned on yeah and they just flew off of his dad mom. Also, don't you know we have been fired, fire melts stones and knocks them over like a like a like a hose yeah, the the variable, the elastic quality of Dragon Dragon powers and dragon strength. Is it's definitely frustrating, but I I tried to put that aside because there's many other things that were worse. I am a night in a final thoughts. I was a very nice about the show I do like. I love the game of thrones and actually buy you like. I can't believe you guys love the show so much when you care so much I'd like to I'd
was a cool show, a strong man who says that this is you know, there's like twitter voice or like a good. Are you guys doing watching your dragon right now? I'd like to see my well, I mean the people of this. Did you hear you took a tour of his phone and I put it back on the back yeah, but but no, it really is, and I I know I made fun of them of that, but like game of thrones was an incredible achievement and it does. It is worth like, even though I think the last season was a disaster like it was an incredibly difficult and amazing thing that they pulled off like this was an almost an adaptable book and story, and I think part way literally since is not done. Yeah yeah, it's not even done and I think by George R R Martin is struggling to give it an ending that it deserves. So I I I do you do you think that they did something incredible and it is an incredible world that they built and I loved it, and I'm glad I got to watch it and we should all fronts. I mean watch together again yeah and I think that part of the reason that you're here so many complaints and
is because people care about the show so much. If, if people didn't care about her love, the show no one would give a shit if things didn't make sense spray that we love these characters. We wanted it to tie up in a way that felt smart and creative, and I think kind of paid off our fandom over the course of a decade and don't think it evert on the latter point and that's why do a little bump, but I loved the show too I'll, never forget watching now love it, and I, I could see myself watching the whole thing again in a couple years like that I mean that is maybe not as fast as bracketed by well. I am, I can get into it again I'd love to go. I always want to go back and read the books, As you know, I don't read to the public and I'm gonna read about sixty eight Georgia. Martin finishes the books, I'm gonna read the books, but I'm not going to read the books until another book comes out. That's a hard because I'm not going out now when I go down, then for a couple years: yeah, I'm not to do that. Come on George you're in Santa FE type that type all right. So all the time we have for today. Next episode, we go back to talking about
American politics, but obviously, if you want to help, if you want to get involved, go to vote the same Westeros dot com, slash donate. There is a a jerry, there's f as F, Jerry funded, recommend Rick is the FUCK Lord Jerry. If you want to bring John back to the throne, now we have two hours to have vote, save restaurants, dot com did we do it alright everyone by.
Transcript generated on 2019-10-12.