The presented sponsor pod? Save America is heard things in the world have been changing every day in company I ve been doing what they can to adjust to these new changes, as you know, Hypocrite, his mission has always been to offer innovative solutions to make hiring people faster and easier, and they never been more important to connect people with the work the world needs today from caretaking to do bring food and goods to building care facilities, supplying protective equipment, and so much more zip recruiter is focused on getting people into positions. Were there needed. Most the partner with first responders government officials, the medical community, the innovators in the manufacturing transportation in food distribution industries to help these places find the right people for the right jobs

so if you have any immediate hiring needs or if your currently looking for work, especially in any of these areas, let slip recruiter. Help. Let's work together. Visit, zip, recruiter, dotcom, slash, work together to learn more I welcome the Plaza America, I'm John Favour on John Love. It and Tommy resort on today's. Tommy talks with Ella District attorney candidate George Gas gone about what progressive criminal justice reform looks like before that we'll talk,

what kind of progress on police reform might come from these protests, the establishment Publicans and military leaders were abandoning Donald Trump and how Fridays rising jobs report might affect the twenty twenty campaign, but first love it Was the shutters were again made? A very love it or leave it talk to a seat out whenever from the New Republic talked to re, which, despite everything from defending the police and the, Also to funding the please all the way to what police reforms can help right. Now we listened to some protestors. Made finally Michel one time: that's ok, we'll take it. Also, if you haven't yet adopted a swing state through vote, save America about com- it's not too late. We are still in awe that more than sixteen thousand of you joined us live for the first training session last. Week. Tommy, you are one of the special guess. You say a word about that. I was, I had to say: hey you guys know me quite well. I am not a person who tend to a moat. It was like.

Of the most overwhelming things to see. Sixteen thousand people spent an hour. Thursday night to get trained to be digital organizer because they care this much about the country in the midst of a pandemic. In the midst of the protests, with all that's going on, it was incredible. Please can be a part of it. You will feel good. If you are involved in this election, and you will feel good if your trained participating and there is a community of people who will be there with you in a time when we're also isolated so check it out, it was incredible. I can't wait to do again I'll, be these special guest at the training that we're having this Thursday, which is all about storytelling for organizers, so check it out hopeless there. I, let's get to the news for the second: we in a row protestors took to the streets of big cities in small towns across Amerika and around the world in a man of demonstration against police brutality and systemic racism there over ten thousand people and It is like Washington, in LOS Angeles this weekend,

protests were met with a much smaller and less militarized law enforcement presents curfews were lifted and wouldn't you know there was less violence and chaos. Trumps the weekend angrily tweeting from inside the giant while he had built around the White House down playing the size of the protests and lobbying insults. Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Dc Mare, Muriel, Bouser, Bob Mahler Colin Powell enjoy food sharing a tweet which said that fact that he's been held up as a martyr is quotes. In the next day, the White House, so that the president may soon deliver a speech on race in unity so tune in for that I so, let's put trouble I have received, and because I do want to start by focusing on the protesters and activists who led this movement. In what ways do you guys think they ve already succeeded? Tommy women start with you, so think they like. I think these protests have been overwhelmingly successful and there's a bunch of different

part of that? So I mean a lot of people have woken up to the fact that police, violence and brutality is is rampant. Here is not just a few bad cops snatch it. A few bad police forces. I mean you're, seeing these videos of abuse from late in New York to Buffalo and it shocks the conscience. I think that's walkin lotta folks. Ups, there also protests everywhere I mean in twenty fourteen. It was focused on Ferguson, you're, not just seeing protests in majority african American Citys you're, seeing people protesting in like Amy Towns, all across the country. They are literally ubiquitous and public sentiment is on the right side. The Wall Street Journal found that by two to one margin, voters are more troubled by police actions and killing George Floyd, and they are about protests, violence and I think good news is helping, people dismiss bad faith arguments that pop up at these times right like calling capper Nics protest was pretty lonely ass I came and a few others

but that discussion was quickly stolen from him and made about the anthem and disrespecting the flag or the? U S, military, despite the fact that the guy who told I predict kneel and not sit on. The bench was a former green varietals guidance from a service number, so this time it feels more focus and then lastly, it's like, I think the movement is broadening. It is a must racial multigenerational protest movement were seen. Republicans like Mitt Romney was out there this weekend, the republic into de Tournay and, frankly, county Pennsylvania, put out a statement saying blacklist matter, and he also said that he was specifically wrong to once reject a term and say all lives matter, so lawmakers moving. May our guard miracle Eddie here and allay announced a bunch of reforms, so it's been a bit a dramatic shift in a short period of time. Left I don't think I've seen a shift, this dramatic and and quick in public opinion public sentiment,

on any issue, maybe sense. So the gay marriage debate I mean just in in the span of a couple weeks, seeing vast, priority of american siding with protesters supporting of a supporting black lives matter, the black eyes met or movement believing systemic racism and police brutality are serious. Major problems supporting major reforms to police departments. What other successes have you seen? What what? What are your thoughts, then what this over the weekend? Yeah? It is remarkable how quickly I think this is clarified. The debate around police brutality, police accountability and larger questions about systemic racism. It is true that there has been a sea change over the course of two weeks, but I do think it's worth saying that, like It is a combination of a movement that was slow, gaining attention of Americans after each of these police killings that that Darwin slowly over time began. First with black.

I matter and now with this incredible outpouring, grow in part, because at each step we ve realising, assuming that you know we talk, but on the show that that that killings haven't crease that even some of these reforms haven't had the effect that they wanted them to that sort of bigger systemic changes were needed in all this for me like just watching it on full. I think There are things that you know, but in a lot of ways you dont internalize where they don't become central to how you think about politics and an eye and what I found striking in just the past few weeks, is how censure all the police are. Conversations about a host of other issues, whether the police are the cause of or a symptom of, these deeper problems,

dammit racism also our failure to take care of people with mental health and addiction issues. Our failure to invest in schools and public parks and social welfare and social workers, and that what really is to me happening is we're having a very overdue conversation led by protestors, who are sort of fed up, because police, violence and police brutality are the Tipp of the spear. Yes interesting, listening to some positive, the people, s weak derail was saying, but you know when he first started caring about this issue in working on this issue. A lot of people said Tom: why are you picking sort of police brutality is and that sort of amnesia issue in the context of larger criminal justice reform, and he said well like when people end up in jail, end up in prison and up stock in the criminal justice system? How do you think they get their encounter with the police is almost always how someone enters the criminal justice system and, like so many movements as you point out of it. This was why

that was started by a lot of activists and organizer. She felt very lonely for a long time and then there is a spark that makes it grow almost exponentially overnight, and now you see, you know that some of the big protest on Friday or about this it would have been Brianna, tailors twenty seven birthday, and that was the case that when it happened there activists and organizers protesting, but it didn't serve spark what we saw over the last couple weeks. Are these things build and build and build and then suddenly something changes. There is also a lot of progress on the ground, tangible progress that we have seen over the last couple weeks. You know from algorithm, Sir small to bigger than others officers have been caught using excessive force are getting suspended, fired investigated and charged faster than they ve been in the past. Cities have banned police from using,

called tear gas and other types of excessive force, Ella in New York of announced, will be to redirecting some funding from police departments to job programmes, health care and other social services. Long running movements remove confederate statues, finally forced action, places like Richmond Virginia and then on Sunday and we'll talk about this in a second, the Minneapolis City Council announced a Bilby disbanding their current police force and basically rebuilding it from scratch over the next year, but we should also add that I do think it's worth pointing out that it's because of protests that charges were filed in the George Floyd case that the Brianna Taylor case has been Rio and so there are clear signs that in really acute directed ways, the protests are working while also starting this larger conversation on policy. So, let's talk about what comes next in Congress

Kratz today introduced the justice and Policing ACT of twenty twenty, which would require law enforcement agencies to report data on the use of force, create a national registry to track police misconduct, band chokeholds and mandate, biased in these reforms, mirror much of what Joe Biden laid out over the weekend in an Alley time's up at. He also called for a police oversight commission and its first hundred days ending the transfer of weapons of war to local police. Any national use of force standard. Many activists have long believed that a truly and police violence cities should consider the funding or disbanding their police forces altogether and replacing them with a new system of public safety, which, as we just mentioned, is exactly what a veto proof majority of the Minneapolis City Council pledged to do on Sunday,

tromp is already tweeted several times about how Joe Biden and the radical left Democrats want to defend the police, and even though that Biden hasn't proposed funding. In fact, he came out against funding the police in a statement through spokesmen today. The Trump campaigner Republicans now want to use this as a wedge issue in the election. A kind want to take this into different parts, let's get to the politics in a second. Let's just talk about sort of the substance of the human, around DE funding or disbanding police forces. Tommy. You wanna talk about that argument about yeah. I'm you look. I think the conversation about defending the police exists on a continuum in their different versions from different folks in, but look at its essence, I think we are talking about dramatically rethinking how we approach public safety, an emergency response, so that means evaluating the job you ask police to do whether that work is effective, whether it's not and then reallocating funds accordingly. So,

some data points that are relevant, like the washing posts over the weekend reported a study that shows that there's no significant correlation between changes and state and local police spending and overall or violent crime right so, given that it does seem to make a lot of sense to rethink spending and then part of this conversation is that departments have proven to just be ineffective. Ride me Major Minneapolis and twenty nineteen Minneapolis police only cleared fifty six percent of cases where a person was killed in twenty eighteen. Their clearance rate for rape was just twenty two percent, so this is a taxpayer funded department that is not serving the community in any way. So should we talk dramatically changing it gather thing. I think we were talking a lot about or is is the rule mental illness or disability, and how those cases are responded to so half of people killed by police have a disability or mental health issue. Those call should be answered by highly trained mental health professionals and not armed police and then

More broadly, like a five percent of arrests in Amerika for violent crime, does it make sense for basically one hundred percent of responders or police officers to be heavily armed, probably not in so that's a piece of it. Part of it is that I think for a lot of communities in this country. They just believed that the institution of these police department, there's fundamentally bro like there's historians, who compellingly argue that police forces were founded primarily to enforce racial segregation, and not enforce laws was not about justice. It is certainly true that for centuries in this country, African Americans could not turn to. The police for justice in matter in matters involving crimes committed by white people. In fact, they were often complicit in those crimes the police were, and today, like african, unfair.

Community as a fundamentally different relationship with the police than most white Americans. Do right I mean, I don't think any of the three of us or sat down with fire parents to have a talk about how they interact with police. If we're pulled over, he does not a thing that is really discussed in white community, so, I think there activists who are thinking like this is a fundamentally broken flawed institution at its course. We should think about how we reconstituted to deal with the problems that police are supposed to respond to, but in a way that more effective love. It you guys cited by the sun on your show. What do you think you're me? I look. I think that I think what Tommy said is right. You stepped step back and you say: alright, we closed asylums and mental hospitals, because they were how and miss treating people and abusive and we replaced it with basically nothing. We didn't. We didn't do anything people, in the long run with mental, unless we can put the resources in it that were necessary, so became a police problem,

we have a rising homeless problem across the country. We don't, but the resources in it that are necessary. We we respond with police this, about addiction and drug abuse. All the evidence is clear right that that, if that, if someone has addiction. If someone is struggling with drugs that treatment and not punish me, is the answer for them. Not only is it more effective, it's less expensive, it's more humane and we don't do that. We respond with police. Why? Because over the course of thirty years in part because of rising crime from the sixties into the nineties in part, because it was embarrassed not just by publicans, but but by Democrats we shifted our resources towards police and we sort of suck the resources away from social services and all the rest and Oh, what we're we're in this situation, where I wear saying something that's obvious and true is seen as radical. Right saying that we should

Ray imagine what the police do saying to fund the police is radical. When actually, when you dig into it, it saying here's. What cure the problems the police are in solving hears. What all the experts say? We should do here's what our budgets actually look like we actually have an honest conversation about it and it is seen as article, because he structures have been place for so long because the hierarchies are so entrenched, whether its political, whether it's you know in terms of our government and the role police play in budgets and in in local politics and also our culture there is no law and order special housing unit right our shows or about how tough and good cause sorry shows our about how the police come in to solve all our problems, and so I think, what's in thing. Is you have the conversation being set by these protest movements calling for some that sounds radical when you dig into the actual questions that their raising the answers are actually not radical their honest and reflect the evidence and what you will see over time. I think is that these

radical sounding solutions become more and more mainstream. As democratic politicians, don't necessarily embraced the phrase defined the police but embraced the larger vision, of RE, imagining the role of police and re, imagining the relationship between people and their government yeah. I think, before you get into slogans, you have to step back and ask a couple larger questions, which is: what is the purpose of law enforcement? What are we want from law enforcement right? We want a police force that doesn't commit violence, but stop silence you wanna police force that gives every citizen in the community equal protection under the law. We do not have that right. Now we have not had for a long time. So you look at the story of the Minneapolis to peace, to police department. They have had. They have tried a number of reforms with this city council. With this mare they have tried

ratings for buyers. In escalation, they have a diverse police department, they have body cameras, they have community policing. Every time they have tried. Further reforms tried to redirect slumber budget increases to fund a new office of violence prevention. Every time, the tragedy that a lot of reforms have been blocked by the police department in their Union STI Union, Steve Fletcher, was one of the Minneapolis City Council members. He was writing this in time magazine this week. Police chief, who they think is a good reformer, has fired officer. Only to have his decisions overturned in those officers reinstated by arbitration after they cut money from the police budget in Minneapolis officers retaliated by not responding to nine one. One calls in certain wards of felicity cancelled people who decided to vote to cut their budget and so from them from the perspective of the Minneapolis City Council, you think we ve tried everything else and they see

The police very feels like they are unaccountable to the people they're supposed to serve. What else are we to do, but at least try to stop the power of the police union from blocking these reforms, and there is a model for this right in Camden New Jersey, which of the fifth highest murder rate in the nation. In twenty thirteen, the police department was disbanded by the city it was a restructured as a county police department. Bashfully had more officers at first throughout the county, but they have lower pain benefits. They were trained. These handcuffs, and guns as a last resort. We body cameras what they had GPS tracking devices on them. There is community policing, stricter use, a fourth rules and Since then, reports of excessive force have dropped. Ninety five percent in violent crime is also way down in Camden, so they get both. They have less excessive force unless crime they showed its possible. Now. I think that the that they took part here is it. Is it is a very local issue, because different cities in this,

police departments will need different reforms. So it's not like a one size fits all thing, and you hear the Minneapolis City Council seems to their. We don't know what replaces it yet. We have to have these conversations with the community rent, but at the very least there down that path, but I do think that it's the end unity, that you describe that as I take led this country to erupt it several times re like now, it's the its watching, George Floyd be murdered. And in ninety two. It was the cops who beat up Roddy King, getting away with it and when Epoch and think about rightly richer Dixon very famously said. Well, when the president does it, that means it's not! Illegal trump has expressed similar sentiments. We off about about it, but that kind, impunity happens every day with police off there's a lot of communities and like beyond Brutality. We ve seen a video like nothing about arresting. Someone requires you to beat the shit out of them and grind their face into the concrete and smash their limbs with a baton but yeah

we're watching policing a fellow shovel seventy five year old man to the ground and do nothing as he starts to bleed Out and then lie about what happened like if I can be charged with filing a false police reports. Where is he an ability when the park police brazenly lie to journalists about using tear gas on protesters. So I think part of this is like we, give police so much leeway when it comes to using force and lethal force, because it's a dangerous job, but we need to fix that we need right size that, because what we are seeing is is dramatic abuses of that power and people stepping up in saying this doesn't make sense. We should not to your gas citizens, we shouldn't shoot people with rubber bullets. We don't have to do that is making it worse yeah. I do thing to a lot of what we're see is. This is the on accountability. This is the aggressive

that wasn't a bug but a feature when this was put in place in many cases by a wide majority that didn't ever have to fear. That this would come for them. What we are seeing is that aggressiveness that brutality taken as a part of the job that that is what it means for police to do their job in part, because of so long a culture, a culture that basically rewarded, rewarded politicians, rewarded, police chiefs, rewarded city, that invested in police and largely look the other way. You know keep our centre. About this morning on what a day he talked about the fact that its not just that the rules meant that police were unaccountable. It meant there also juries

Andrews, ordinary citizens who have been trained to just defer to the police, assume the police are telling the truth, but what we have seen as Tommy pointed out over the past two weeks is just how often that is irresponsible, just how often police are lying even when caught on camera, and I think that that is shocking to a lot of people myself included, who have always been paying. Attention is also what the politics of this we just spoke about. Sort of the rapid shift in public opinion in favour of peace. Hussars, in favour black lives matter in favour of systemic police reforms. No one so far has pulled defined the police or polled abolish the police, but you gov off from last weekend, decided to pulled do use. Do you favour various police reforms? And you know

banning chokehold body cameras, training to DE escalate conflict all got like seventy eighty, ninety percent hugely popular, then they said: do you support cutting funding to police departments are just cutting funding only sixteen percent of all voters said they support any cuts in funding for police departments and include sixteen percent of Democrats, twenty one percent of eighteen to twenty nine year olds and thirty, three percent of black Americans. So you know four, I think, for those of us who have been paying close attention to the protests hoop and reading, allow these very thoughtful pieces about police reform over the last weeks. What we're so You know it makes sense you could you can see why police needs a sweeping reform, of course, for a lot of Americans and, of course, these numbers may change and probably will change. I imagine over the coming weeks,

but there's still pretty low. Any cell Biden come out today and say you know, he's not for defining the police and so far, no a lot of elected democratic. Our Corey Booker, Karen Bass allowed the people who worked on this keen Jeffreys allow people who worked on the bill that they correspond to the billet they introduce today also said that day they don't support defining the police- and you know republicans- are out there saying there, the Trump and Republicans or salivating about using this is a wedge issue against Democrats. What would you think what the politics of this issue Tommy, what I mean I don't know yet I mean so looking- there is sort of like a near term, less over them objects of success or failure, or in the new year term, like there's a big piece of this- is about the budget. These. All these cities are going to deal with huge shortfall thanks to the corona virus. And you're, seeing everywhere that every component like agencies are and got it except for the police and people, asking: why are we getting school budgets and not policeman

so in a way I in April our said he had proposed for allows for fish thousand city employees, but not for the police in fact, had offered to give them a seven percent increase in spending for the LAPD since a process have started Garcia, reverse course, in you will not direct two hundred and fifty million dollars to youth jobs, health initiatives, p, centers to heal, trauma and help those who are dealing with discrimination that will be partly funded by one hundred and fifty million dollars that was previously allocated to the LAPD that is like head snapping. Political change for LOS Angeles, because ninety ninety three after the ruddy king riots, Ella elected public and mayor who promised to hire three thousand more cops to bring the force up to ten thousand officers, which is about word is now in so that's remarkable progress like that's political success, no matter how you sure it. I do think that, like broadly, there can be an inside game in and outside game, where active,

sore, marching and protesting are gonna have to keep pushing people like Joe Biden to do more if they believe that's what's necessary. I also think there's a political imperative to more clearly defined the policy and then tell a story about how that will make America a better, safer world in so you know, I don't think that we are immediately gonna see Joe Biden say we should define the police, but I do think, like the amount of progress has been made and even just a small amount of time since Ferguson and twenty fourteen is incredible, and so three years from now, we might be having an entirely different conversation lover. Would you think me, police budgets were sacrosanct they're not going to be sacrosanct anymore. It's gonna be a big part of the political fight, and I think that that's it victory. You know, I doesn't remind me a bit of the debate around abolish ice in that activists,

and some candidates, but mostly activist, embrace this term- abolish ice Democrats, don't embraced the term Republicans try to tar democrats with that anyway and all the while conversation lead because of this provocative and maximum last phrase, leads to a debate about Well, what should these reforms look like? What turns out what there are huge problems in ice and she Reforms are needed, and maybe this department should be broken up in certain way and its functions. Devolved to other agencies, so it doesn't have this noxious toxic culture, so I see the same thing playing out with to fund the police in that in common. Ass right, she's. She inquired book on the Senate side introduce this bill. She was asked by Mega Mccain this morning the mayor, Minneapolis, refused to say defined the police. I'm and ask you the same question as protesters did: do you support defining police and she did? answer yes or no. She explained why we need to re. Imagine the role of police in our lives and give a pretty cogent answer. I dont know if it will satisfy activists ultimately

but it is that it is so clear how much the converse and from the streets has trickled down into a much more progressive vision for what is possible in governing. Yet two points from me on this one very much agree with what Tommy said, as I think. Sometimes we forget to separate the role of activists and politicians. You know politicians will do what is broadly popular, or at least if it's not broadly popular, is in the forties. I forties right so like you would not expect Joe Biden to come out for defining the police are a lot of people who have to run in a purple state, a red say in competitive districts I wasn't too, as recline interview tunnels codes on his pack ass this week and eventually since a fascinating and fantastic conversation, and he said, like yeah, I don't expect Joe Biden to say do from the police, but I really hope that the peace around Joe Biden or reading. All the thoughtful takes about defending please so that

energy and those ideas bleed into his policy making in some way. That's what you can hope. So then the question is: how do we? diverse, tell a story about defending the police that becomes broadly popular and not change. Sorry, oh, who I had in the wilderness, whose just an expert on messaging in issues tweeting about this weekend and she said. Sometimes we fall back on negative framing what we don't want and we forget to tell sort of the positive side of the story and it's not just if we just talk about defending the police and we don't talk about what we want to replace that with some of the positive things were looking for, we cannot fall short

If a progress are friends, data for progress did adieu, pull over the weekend and may tested do. Do you support or oppose a new agency of first responders, like emergency medical services, a fire fighters to deal with issues related to addiction or mental illness that need to be remedied, but do not need police sixty eight percent of the people. They asked support that kind of agency, which is the exact kind of agency that some of these cities, like Camden Impossibly Minneapolis, might create to sort of supplement or to sort of shrink the role of traditional policing, so I do think it's up. It is incumbent on activists and all of us who want to see major structural police reforms to tell a story and paint a very clear vision of a world where our tax dollars or not funding police violence, but funding public safety that is equitably distribute.

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speakers, Paul, Ryan and John Vainer won't say how they vote in some Republicans who hang out I'm sorry Dan Fan is an eye. As I said, then he's got some news that in some Republicans, who are already disinclined to support Mr Trump are weighing whether to go beyond backing a third party contender to openly endorse, MR by a number, military leaders who served in administrations, including trumps former defence secretary in chief of staff, have broken the president, the last week in over the weekend, former secretary of State Colin Powell, Jake Jake Tapir he'll, be voting for Biden, saying this about Donald Trump, as country of just the president, we have a car. We have a supreme court, but first of all we have the people of the United States, the ones who vote the ones who voted men and the ones you load him up. I could foreign and ninety six, and I certainly cannot in any way support president from this year. So yeah. I know you didn't vote for him and two thousand. Sixteen, I assume

based on the fact that you approved Joe Biden when Senator then Senator Obama picked him to be his runny made in two thousand eight. I assume you're going to be voting for Joe Biden I'm very close to Joe Biden and a social matter and on a political matter. I was in for thirty five forty years and he is now the candidate and I will be voting for him. Tommy Colin Powell is riding with by Does any of this matter and do you think somebody's endorsements or anti endorsements carry more weight than others? Am I Paul Ryan, refusing to say who will vote for his just its bits, worthless, it's pathetic its chefs, kiss power. Are you I do think, like George W Bush, Mitt Romney, that's sick, again, a jolly general mattresses, broadside against Trump, actually was pretty significant for a few reasons, and, first of all, like the DC pundits class reveres him,

like no other, so I got a ton of attention it will continue to. I said I think it will move opinions within the military itself and give others had the courage to speak out in that me is what matters like people in politics talk a lot about permission structures. If you see people who were in your party who you respect, who you may have voted for previously saying they can't go a trump this time, they're gonna go for Biden. I do think that helps you can't get permission internally to to switch parties as well for about. I do find myself quite frustrated in some cases that it took this long. I think chumps response to Charlottesville told you everything you need to know about how racist and divisive he is, and so reading Madison comments about Trump. Recently I felt like they could have been written that day after Charlottesville, but we're about building coalitions whereby feeling or soft trump voters. So this after being credibly, meaningful on the margins, and I think, you're, seeing it in these poles like ever.

Missing, should now as much as you hate, Donald Trump, fifty five percent of the country Looking for any one. Human being is unheard of. Jesus Christ himself, probably couldn't crack. Fifty four so like we're in a weird reality right now, it's gonna shrink, but on it's a big deal, love that what you think. I wish matters, would do it on television and sub, doing it in the Atlantic, like that, it's a culture that doesn't read so that doesn't do as much. For me like this, when we receive less the Lincoln Project this morning, finally did a view of his is landed peace. I was like. We need a good voice over here, and you know why I'm glad Mitt Romney is out there saying black lives matter, it's worth, remembering that we have one republican saying black eyes matter we have. Many more Sang house trump worries them in private, and then we have the vast majority standing behind him. I would like see Mitt Romney not be so cute and right in

man's name. You know this is a choice. We have a choice. You want to be part of going to help us make this choice or not. I'm not interested in publicans. You write in other people's name of its evading responsibility, not taking us instability and so like I'm, not gonna give people it's for doing less than the bare minimum of helping to remove Donald Trump, because only one person that you can vote for the help remove Donald Trump. That said, I think, it's a good thing. I am very reluctant to saying something feels different something's feel different. Is this the end? Is this the end Ets nice occasion. It doesn't matter. We sought to all do our job and be, We ve seen versions of this in the past and, and you know, It's never. It hasn't been the end for Trump. Yet he's not ended and there any times where it seem like the end, was around the corner. We can remove him in November. These are are good and hopeful signs, and I just want to know that this wasn't anais a and a low point from which trumps slowly crawled back. Actually the beginning of the actual and yeah. I think I think

from it Romney you know, and it does it we were talking about this earlier. It doesn't like negate all the bad positions Romney has taken throughout the course of his life or all the things he said that we disagreed with over the courses lifelike, you people can change, they can grow and then sometimes they can do things that are bad, and sometimes they can do things that are good like out It is like a raging debate about this. I don't think it's that complicated to me. I give Mitt Romney little extra credit because he is the one Republican who voted to impeach the president and when he had a chance, so he actually took an action programme that that that meant something as well. I do agree love it that the writing in the third party or writing in the name thing you know it. I get why they there they're doing it, but like what we're trying we're trying

send a signal to voters, many of whom, in twenty sixteen may have helped costs Hilary the election by either leaving the presidential thing blank on their ballot voting for a third party, whether it was you know, the greens or whether was deliberate. Areas or whatever, and we want every. We want to send the message to everyone that if you want Donald Trump out of office, it is a choice between two people and so to the extent that leaders Let everyone know that it's a choice between two people- I think that's important- you Know- with Tommy that it's all about a permission structure in there's two kinds of swing voters in this election. There's there's people who are like you, gotta lotta college, educated white, males, who you know I've been voted for trumpet sixteen.

A lot of them voted for Gretchen Whittemore in Michigan and in eighteen or Tony avers in Wisconsin and eighteen, and are still not sure if they're going to do it, but for Joe Biden and I think, for those voters seeing military leader seeing Republican, say it's ok to vote for Joe Biden, actually have an influence, there's a whole bunch of other voters who don't know they're going to participate in the political process at all, because they think institutions have fuck them over for their whole lives and they don't trust them. I don't think, George, W Bush or Mitt Romney Gummy much too, that it does not cover them, does not for the non Urban, not everyone's the same, not all swing. Voters have the same beliefs and values, not I'll swing. Voters are gonna, be motivated by the same thing. I think bedroom Romney deserves credit for marching. I think he deserves credit for voting, for

each man it ass. It is worth remembering that run these dad George Romney March in favour of civil rights in the late sixties, Nixon TAT, George Romney, to run HUD and basically drove him out of the administration, because George Romney refused to stop enforcing fair housing laws so yeah. I think he has a history of this kind of activism and his family doesn't mean. I regret kicking his ass in the twenty twelve election. I find all this chapter on Twitter that he was horribly, miss Treatin to be a touch overstated. It was a presidential campaign. But I dont remember. I remember the Romney campaign over the Romney campaign. Putting on a pair of white gloves, and showing up at the boxing match. You know it was. It was a fight. I political fight,

I remember I remember sitting in my office in Vienna, see in reading a blistering press release from the Rami campaign on the night of the Benghazi attacks. You already know, as as there's still like massive protests outside of embassies and feeling like that was a touch outrageous. But here we are, I want to focus on the current and good for him for I know I'm right here. I want to fight old wounds. That's what I want to do. It's just worth noting, as one of you just did about like the weird weird times or in politically that, like we may go forward in November with a coalition that includes Alexandria, Cassio, Cortez and Bernie Sanders in Germany. We Butch admit rum what the fuck is happening right now. That is a big round. Very diverse ways: a leap, weird coalition of people, Look maybe voting election, I was gonna, say Lester. Right here. Right now, George Bush maybe

maybe puts at enhancing sports Joe Biden, and we don't say We know so much about it. The damage that election we're back to Saint factors, but I'm not doing it now, or something just between us from saying that real quiet really quite but him like this- is a very where political moment, obviously he said, and my only hope for an admonition for folks, like but I'll just have a little grace for each other in terms of what we choose to believe. Ben and how we are choose to conduct activism you're allowed to believe what you believe you're allowed to fight for progress and change. How you want to do it. Everyone show the fuck out with with brow, beating people who ninety nine percent agree with you like. I did, I think, like train our energies towards across it, and even even if you don't want to be graceful like Tommy, so nicely

just just from a raw political standpoint. You know movements are built by addition. Just think of you. That's all you're fucking win. Can I make one other one other observation just about about Biden to deliver the up. And how there is now everyone from you know, just as you said, George W Bush to see there's dura Lex. Seinfeld, where a lane and Jerry want to get with a couple that just broke up. There's well they're both attracted to the members global agenda and both attracted to the members of the couple and debated like yours, our plan, first we're gonna, be there for you and then we're just there wouldn't be the connection back to those binds there for us and then you just gonna, be there, that's that's the one, that's how you build this giant coalition from from from, basically all the political structure: firstly just their forests and that's how you know that that segment?

over, so we We ve talked before about how the one political strength that's keeping from the races that voters tend to trust him over binding on managing the economy. President clearly thought he could build on this. In its last Friday, when we received a better than expected jobs report economists had predicted unemployment rise to twenty percent in May, but instead it felt a thirteen point. Three percent. We added two point: five million, jobs during a speech in the rose garden, Trump celebrated this news and said the following: hopefully Georgia's looking down right now and say this a great thing: that's happening for our country a day for him, it's a great day, for everybody is a great day for everybody does a great great day in terms of equality that Fuckin guy man. Let's look, Let's start the numbers themselves Tommy economists saying about why they were better than expected so John. I'd want our readers to know that we don't have readers listeners You know that I barely understand us people.

I grant others, and this best. There is amiss classification air in to be a less data, which means the unemployment rate, would have been about three percent higher so that sixteen point three percent, some but were classified as temporarily unemployed or miss classified as absent, like you would be on, say, jury duty, I don't really care about fighting about that. I was a big here was a big twitter dust up on Friday that I did my best in you, but I do think like big picture like people are still suffering a lot. I think the Republican Party is going to create massive problems for itself if they use this job report as an excuse for not doing more to help people who are hurting as a result of the poor dammit. So that's gonna, like the democratic I and the prize here, verses, YO, unskilled, be, alas, or what further debate was on Friday. Yet love it? controversial out their political opinion. You tell me what you think shouldn't celebrate. You shouldn't celebrate double digit unemployment.

No. Are you don't look? I I Member John, you remember years in the White House years, you'll hear years any good job, report you had to go and a chain- and you had- Make sure that you hit yourself back on the back. Times ten times there Make sure you understood inside of the speech that, even though you are pointing to progress and the economy are hard things where for many people and I'm I'm good about it, but it was taken as an article of faith, backed up by pulling backed up by evidence that that Brok, Obama present Barack Obama did not. Want to be out there celebrating these now worse, which were far lower and better than the current numbers trumpet celebrating for fear

would seem out of touch and unable to relate to the real pain that people are feeling in part, because any time Brok Obama said anything approaching what Donald Trump has been saying, he would have been pilloried. He would have been marked mercilessly by Republicans claiming he was out of touch. So I am ass. I continue to believe that that is good politics. As you know, Larry COD low in his fuckin not unless you now have a clear play. The play the clip. This is how very Carlo responded to the news American, he's coming back: three million new jobs, lower unemployment rate for alone, temporary lay offs goin back to work, green shoots popping up everywhere. Stocks are soaring food, is policies, are working, stay with the winners Trump and tense and make the best is yet to come.

I just add some it's hard for you to hear it's hard for you to hear in the audio my butt, pinstripes on his suit, are made of cocaine, the cod low, a green room, creature in his? You know why upheld shirt and jacket out there saying that everything is ok, you know it fostering and an end this little debate about whether the unemployment rate is thirteen percent or sixteen percent like these are, of the worst jobs numbers in history in a century no getting around, there's no talking their way out of it. They can't get past it. We looked at the flip side of your The flip side of my original point is that Trump taught me that economic sentiment in how you feel about the economy is totally part. Is it right that we, like the UK, it. Barely Jane Donald Trump becomes, president in suddenly, a bunch of Republicans feel great about the economy, because Trump is now in charge, so there irrationality behind that voters. Sentiment was surprising

Maybe that was naive. Maybe I'm in any. I will maybe get well actually offer of all social media, but like that were shocking Maybe if you guys we're right, we we love is that, like every Brok, Obama statement was as hedged and measured as possible about a good jobs report in Part B, is the underlying data suggested that people still weren't feeling things being better in their own lives. Out of that, one small point which has Tommy's does right that there is partisanship in terms of how the economy is you, but it actually is in total, there's dad on us, and it shows that when your PA, he is in charge. You are more likely to say the economy is doing well, that's true of Democrats and Republicans. It is just more true of Republicans that they are more likely to take our artisan view, but it's not total reality still exists sets out. So you know I completely agree. I think that polarization now because it so extreme, takes care of about ninety percent of what what time is talking about. I think

railways, the segment of voters- and we saw this popping up and our own polling other people polls that, like the only thing, that's keeping trump alive as people who disapprove of his job as president, but they think he's good on the economy and they might approving the economy stating for those people. You know Unita message. The right way message is the right way. What would have made me nervous from a political standpoint is of Trump came out carefully. Imagine him doing this but said like look. This is better than expected, but we have so much more work to do to bring this economy back and I would be fighting for a new package in Congress now discuss that would make me nervous because it would look like he's fighting for people. Instead, it was a big fuckin celebration. Republicans in Congress are like our right now we can put the brakes on the next stimulus its trump. As I am going to ask for more romanesque payroll taxes, which no one really wise- and I think it is what he did right- there is a huge political opportunity for Democrats, because basically, Trump has now decided. He is running as the can

day of the status quo in an election where, like record numbers of people, think the countries on the wrong track? The virus is gone on the economy. Back nothing's wrong, whether there's no social unrest or racial. Everything is fine. The great american comeback has begun, you know, keep Amerika great or which I guess now, according to the Washington Post, I did that Slogan MC my gun, its lack of american and see my great authority learn whiteboard by the bulk over at the White House. So like. I think that is a huge risk for him. He was. He got to run as a change candidate and twenty sixteen and now he's running of the candidate of the status quo. By like celebrating this, and I dont

Oh look, he can try. You know he's gonna, try to say already that, like Joe Biden spent in Washington revenues and effective- and you know you could get some traction with that message by its in Trump to celebrate everything and say everything is fine all the time, it's not in trumped to say like things about it, I'm gonna fix it. While he's the he's depressed. And I think that's a real danger. It's here is incapable. He said that George Fucking Floyd it like the John John Burs- we just went right by the man, is incapable of expressing any other motion. Then celebration of himself- that's it that's always got. He is without empathy. The job has done what it has done to every american president, which is take there. Worse qualities and make them worse and that's what we ve got and with that's. That was just it's been on display. That's all that's correct! Ok when we come back, we'll have Tommy's interview with Ella District attorney candidate George Gascoyne pots. America is broadly by s athletic greens,

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yesterday on pod, save America Jorce. Thank you so much for joining the shop and my pleasure. Thank you for having me so just right at the top full disclosure for listeners? I have donated your campaign, so I am hardly impartial, but I dont think they look to me for that. So anyway, thought I should say so. Just like a lot of our our audience is in a way, but me Most of them are not so as open. We could start with some basics about the job itself what decisions does a district attorney make in particular for further measures that are in a horrifying. By videos of police brutality. What actions could you take if you are elected to address that problem to stop that violence? Of course. The first thing that you can do is ensure that you're taking me a trim

staring at him why us look at police behaviour when there is criminal, combine LISA, you're gonna hold him account of what you ve been to prosecute and ass, really important Ah, I think looking the other way is occurring. This you're turning has done very often emboldens police and I think, a problem that we have national prosecutors finally our for a variety of reasons, including pressure from police unions and the difficulty of thinking you now making cancelling the boys are often not taking assert their not being assertive, and I think that we have created a culture and policing in this country for police use force because they cannot, because they should ah, they can, because you know, prosecutors are often not holding them accountable. The second thing that you have to do, as you also modified behaviour in voicing by the way you prosecute your case itself, reasons? I have been very ill spoken about. What I think is you early broad occur. Few have been imposed around I lay county and then the

usually curfew as a tool to warning arrest, and quite rightly, some pages. Wars against peaceful demonstrators on the dossier should make it very clear that none of this case will be prosecuted. You may not unequivocally clear, not also sends a message to ways of you're gonna do that you're gonna be standing alone, because whenever this board you, Obviously, if you have somebody's governing other crimes, their harming older people, are burning, building, sounder looting, that's it different story are, and then you have to use Proportionality and you have to evaluate each case on their own, but I think what you're talking about peaceful demonstrators voice we have seen throughout donation and certainly right here in L, a county being, you know, I'm enforce being use upon in Heaven pudding blessing. In courts having been held in what I consider extremely dangerous conditions, given the pandemic. No, we have exposing hundreds, if not thousands, of people to what potentially gimme the death penalty

rather than or someone house. I think that the house to stop in a way to stop them simply by the prosecutor come out very openly with and saying I would not prosecute this case under any condition. Unfortunately, are prosecuted house in number in that continues to be a problem Yeah so for listening to me, you came up in the system as a bee cops. Are you have real on the ground experience, policing, communities, I've also You talk about how growing up your parents were terrified of the poor you said one time that you know if there is a cop behind your mom when she was driving, she might pull over ass, your father to pull over. So view this from different perspectives there, Some people particularly commute of color, who feel like the systemic problems with police. Go so deep that the forces should be defended or disbanded, and we should essentially start over? Do you agree with those calls to defender disband police departments

You know, I agree with the younger than his rivals, and I often tell people that if we work redefining our entire criminal justice system from the ground up on police importance would not look the way they look today. So to that end, I think that we need to start shifting funding away from their traditional policing and put him more money in services. I believe actually not only increase community safety but actually create a more sustainable communities, so mental health services, innovation, worker, Wolfgang Innovation workers, social workers, there are so many calls the police are required. Respond on a regular basis that we would be much better off if we took the gun on their backs away and we had a medical, professional or social professional. Responding to those calls additionally creating a vehicle to divert people even before that into the system and even in the medical assistance and social assistance they need, is like

actually do not only increase public safety but reduce allotted the need for funding that we have today, they go on met because we can reduce the footprint of jails and criminal justice system and good that money into other services that are more likely to create a much better community socially and that I have set for actually out before all this the need to us. We reduce the footprint of the criminal justice system, not money used. We shifted, intimate a whole services, social services, education, other services that are likely to create a more sustainable, safer community We need to start doing this. Why? Frankly, I used to say that six months ago I got no traction. It all right now, we're talking about people wanted to completely. They found a boy support. They could not afford to completely the fauna police born, but we can certainly be to start, taking a lot of money away and putting that money into the services that are going to be a much more sustainable and much better fit for what

We saw to that end. You support America Seti's proposal to direct Fifty million dollars towards youth jobs, health, p centres and impartially fund. By cutting a hundred and fifty million dollars from L a p budget does that make sense. That makes sense, I think is actually extremely conservative. I think that the delay the baby, the LAPD bite you could think even bigger caught look. The mayor just gave the LAPD about a seven percent. But he was gonna keep so really what we're talking about a bye, bye taken this money away, still keeps all aid be near. The funding levels of the word a few months ago, right, pre fiscal year, twenty twenty one and allay the fiscal year aside, you lied to June thirtieth, so

I, frankly, what I see given back were taken away. It's almost talking because it really doesn't alter the operations at all, all is doing to in pay races away, which I don't think that we should have gone forward with, given that every other city worker was asked to take a ten percent come, so I think we have to go deeper than what is being proposed. I think that we need to start moving away. We are for that. As we start shifting funding away somehow You know we're gonna be less safe. The realities were not. I think You know why we have to really start pushing back a boy she any political pressure. Are you still see it on? in the last few days, maybe not us openly, but there's so much pressure the goals by union. To make sure that no funding is gonna contain.

There's only one thing: if not the world's gonna fall apart, guess what the world is not going to fall apart and we will probably be a better world if we start shifting someone of funding to the service of the mayor, certain water, So to that end, the show is probably wasn't you by a bunch of political junkies or people who are trying to influence people. You know as organizers, how do they fight back Can those arguments. People who say you got a hundred and fifty million from the LAPD budget. There's gonna be fewer cops industry, the street be higher crime, I mean even just the increased scrutiny of police activity after twenty fourteen had people blaming cry. On the Ferguson Effect and claiming their cops were being handcuffed, may have led to an increase in crime it. How do you combat those arguments? Look. I think that there are still always I will come back I remember one is, in the case of L, a really taken that found a way to simply keeping the status quo on any less office.

It is simply not given the awful to repay raise, was on my shirt given the economic scenario where everyone else taking significant, because now we should develop a pay re soon. The police, court police, ordinary sweetheart community air- and you know what your appalling sermon and I think that you have to adjust to the realities of the reality right now, the world. Ah, you know suffering, and you know the suffering should be on a cross border. Next thing that we have to do is that we really actually have to reduce this. The presence of voicing many communities, I think, actually or policing of many communities, creates more problems than not look. I saw demonstrations in the last few days that actually became violent when a boy shore up there were peaceful uncle until those expressing, saw evaluating, and then you are waiting for So please, please answer the man surrounded standards. Sometimes your presence actually want to raise the

the anxiety, and maybe, if your better, especially given the complex rules, the current situation, sometimes better, this tobacco a logo if you're gonna approach, do it in a way. That is not what you know, what all right gear and almost all the things that actually increase stations do not reduce station. So I at the same time, you know we gotta make sure that no police goes into work slow down. You know where they work for us right in their work for mayors and City Council building more supervisors, and if you see a there is Eddie, crease or desirable policing levels. Then you start all a cold war accordingly, you know, I saw your police, they should not be on the back and I will be like having Europe This is being back home in Vienna without Congress on without the president, no reference to the current occupant of the White House out hissing anomaly, but do not just in general

We want police forces, we want the military to respond to civilian authority and that some some we're losing now. Don't we get intimidating were actually be in awe worse into alone police through what I really want to do so In preparing for this interview, I talk to someone who was a critic of yours in San Francisco, who argued that your office sort of essentially gave up on prosecuting crime. My car break ins or or low level drug offences in that led to a poorer quality of life, for residents of San Francisco, what do you say to that critic and in how your bigger picture to balance long term needed reforms with the immediate demands from residents to stop theft. For example, yeah, you know, look at best the police narrative, here's what happened in San Francisco. I was one of course, but also the property, Sir,

which was one of the major chronology, also reform efforts Billy. Who the war on drugs, trying really brass insanity Santa seeing some other felony consequences were were ripe, possession for personal use and wonder pudding. Hundreds dollars over five hundred million dollars back into work near these boys. Supporters were against us, and they basically in many places one into a works. Long San Francisco really wanted to work slowly. I hears what I'm going with this car Marguerite were not covered by proper forty seven but during the next four years after proper research for three and a half years years, the only issue for police came up. There were or were not, eighty one thousand car break ins and there were eleven arrests which, by the way, all eleven arrests worthwhile on

to give. But when you have you day, eighty one thousand cases I'm eleven. The rest is not. The failure to prosecute is a failure for the boys to do their work, but there were very good ask him at the narrative in saying that the day was not prosecute in those cases where there were now miss Meanwhile, we have less of a tool which neither was true. Not only will we prosecuting the very few cases eleven about that came up Certainly one avenue chief of police came on board and here you know we're gonna do our work. We so immediately a seventeen percent reduction in property crimes, including car breaking away when I left. We got two years on the road or reductions, so that narrative is precisely the mirror. The police wants people to hear is the fear mongering and is sometimes a manipulation of phase bite. You know you're simply getting into it works law about unfortunate.

In San Francisco. Like many other communities are not strong enough leadership and encounter, your city government, the look of the boys as it were, eighty one thousand cases eleven. The rush you're not doing your job on. If you don't do your job, I'm going to start taking action right, you have the purse strings, you control with the chief of police, it they worked for you that work for us, right. It should not be the other way around, but it's very hard to push back in a mirror the because people just why you know cop shows up to the sea water in twenty fourteen, the police Officer Association in San Francisco, laid out somewhere around four hundred thousand dollars and radio right of their property. So the radio autonomy, quoting an exemplary by my paraphrasing and basically was every morning warning drive if your cargoes broken in or if you're, a victim of a crime causing Francisco police, we will be there to serve you, but don't speck district attorney s going to do anything about it.

And then they went out for about three and a half years. We want all work. Slowly does seem very the very purposeful stoppage there. I've got it, so I must which gives a little bed, because either some important issues that you're a Europe that the role cover and that you worked on the United States has five percent, I think, of the global population, but twenty five percent of the prison population. Clearly, that is a problem, What kinds of policies do you want to put in place to reduce mass incarceration and reduce? the insane number of people, we have locked up in jails right now. Yet look when I became concerning our jail was in twenty low. Adele was fuller, really. And within a year we were able to lower our Jill population by thirty to forty percent on a daily basis and crimes by the way violent crime in San Francisco Couldn t need to go out from this

period, whereas signally colony went away all thirty percent of the colonies. Fifty percent on the city, with the aid that incarcerated rate at of seventy percent higher than any they also mistake. We also had the lowest number of prison commitments. In fact, we are in twenty fifteen twenty. Sixteen there was a group or researchers again to see Franciscan, say very county of American, took the same served in San Francisco Bay. We would in mass incarceration this country years time. So what you have to do is we have to begin to. Move away from using incarceration as a first level response to any problem is starting with pre trial, detention, our jails, which, in the case of L, a county about fifty percent of the people in pre trial detention violate San Francisco to even the numbers were lot lower and we were able to incarcerate. We still had a problem because we still more money

on many other reasons of people are hill. Even before that, the EU takes a look out, over the last forty eight hours, so people are in jail. Forty eight hours before the aim and take a look at his so that population in the process, the people that are committing non serious nonviolent offences have to report that happening up in jail either because they cannot afford bail or because aid that will have an attorney comes out right away. We need to stop that the best thing that we have to do, which I have placed two absolutely went away and we started to learning San Francisco. You know I say I continue my journey understanding the work as we have to go back to what we use will before this creation of about three decades ago, that we keep adding more enhancement and more prison enhancement and punished

to the point that you can have a person that commits a crime and the basic friends, maybe less than five years, but because of game hands was going houses, anyone in the prison the thing or twenty years. We also see now, I feel, is a perfect example. Were people are being placed on again files and the offices are fraudulent, put people young people of color in Ghana files which then create good the vehicle for the gang enhancement which automatically bulk of wise? a sentence if they were to be assent, and so we have to move away from what we call stylus entails means, because that is driving incarceration in this country, in California led the way with reach strikes in gang has risen you don't, fellow with a gun and just all kinds of things that their apply, often by prosecutors. First of all, to coerce plead agreement. The plea,

always be on a sentence that will be so much less everyone for the enhancement people go to trial and they end up in a running a risk of wine from the potential of Ec Law Law, Piero incarceration beyond a prison for twenty five, twenty twenty five thirty years. We have to move away from that. The last question that serve related, which is you oppose the death penalty as hobby, could explain why and then you're. Obviously that penalties the most severe example of the use of force by the state, but I think a lot it will be shocked by the fact that police I've been to your gassing pepper spring, shooting with four bullets citizens. We do you think Those tools are appropriate for crowd control. Absolutely not absolutely not that I have, I told you, never broken hearted CN some of the images are. We have seen tvs on internet. Ah, you know rubber bullets. Once you know they were in the business or call.

You. Ve been robbery become mouse, firstly, not intended to be shall directly at anyone in the upper torso area, which I saw a lot of them. They are meant to be kept on the ground so that they may have ground, firstly knew somebody momentum and then they're supposed to, hopefully it than the Lord. Ah, you know you know below the waste we have seen contrary to that, no never intended to be for peaceful demonstrators were now a crowd. Control moving to just like a baton should not be a crowd control, movie tool or tear gas, and things are really when you have. You have exhausted all the other possibility than you have actual wine at school and we have seen those tools use not in the in those areas and that to me as very problematic, and I think that we need to help people accountable for their going to the death penalty to ask area

Why am I also urge I'll be among calling my personal reason? Alumina gonna, give you a whole host of reasons why we should all be impulse. I am opposed to the death penalty because I think is immoral. I know it's a moral. Why? Because, as being disproportionately apply for people and people will call mistake, Ella coming Late County, the state or California has the biggest death road and the country roughly some hundred fifty people about a third of them I come from L a county under the current us, a good turn, a twenty two people, just in the last eight years, have in place and that road and all, but one are people of color. Cannot tell me that in the county of come and a half million, people were the african american populations less than five percent, but they make up the majority of the people in the throat. So There is a problem with proportionality in the morality about number. True, it doesn't help public safety. It does indeed her cry.

When people are committing a crime that allegedly could be worth you the death penalty under the current law there, not thinking. If I get cod, I may be facing death row, thus not how we as human beings work for a solution to remote there's two anything. She is not thinking of that. So it's not any tearing is immoral and this proportionately apply and then I'm going to go to the third major reason it is so expensive. You know causing execution. Hysterical Warner currently would cost around three hundred and forty million dollars to execute one person craftspeople and yet it is crazy people in that role. Also keeping people in that road is so many more times. I if you put people and the regular within the regular population, most of the people in the world by the way about it, Two percent went in with a mental health problem, which has also brings other ethical considerations, so

if someone may have committed a serious crime, I met my samina. They did right there mentally ill right. I don't forget one other thing that I should have from the very beginning, which brings to borrowing morality, weed. Always get a right. We know people get wrongfully convicted and the death penalty is a reversal. So if we can make some one to the throne- and we nor there had been a bit innocent people in these countries are being executed. We have helped people in the state have got now that road there were roughly com. Good and twenty years, thirty years later have been able to finally gain their freedom, so you getting a shop personality. You got an issue of wrongful convictions and application for an innocent person to be executed coral and morality worse you gotta issue, and serve any public. Safety purpose doesn't deterred point and then is so expensive

We can by so much more public safety and so many other things with a penalty that doesn't have any applicability. In my opinion, in modern society, yeah. I'm here I think I saw more than on your website. The California has spent more than five billion dollars with a b since nineteen. Seventy eight prosecuting death penalty cases when maintaining a death road currently houses, seven hundred and thirty, seven in Meda. What the fuck We doing excuse my language does nothing to you know what I generally would say this in the early. What the fuck are. We do so good court, because it doesn't Yeah question. So there's lots people who have been marching who have been donating, who care deeply about criminal justice reform of care, deeply about reducing incarceration. Can I get involved in your campaign, there are in this area and help you out and are there other people running

for DE seats across the country that they should check out if they want a more progressive policies implemented everywhere, totally so ass to like it, When you can go on our website. George, we have gone about organ. You can see. There are voluntary opportunity, Baiser policy papers are, you can read up? There is the same as a? U can use if you yourself wanted to go out and talk to people as to why we are supporting this. Their volunteer opportunities on as to other day, sir, there are over recent years Kim gardener in some losers Merrill Mosby in Baltimore. Dare many others there approximately, I believe, they're ten. I now they're running country. Why are all deserving of a specially, especially for schools, to the place where you live, but even it even yours, a sounder Bernie Sanders says you know good thing. Just don't. I think dollar one dollar each. If we get no several million

but the one dollars swallow was. It was certainly go a long way because we are all facing the same things: war facing police use coming after you my case nor the primary police unions, but two point one million dollars against me. They have pledge yet they have place now, for the general elections would be to inform five million dollars gas right so in a market like delay by the way, which is the largest colony. On the contrary, ten and a half million people fighting them kind of money in order to communicate who's. Gonna. Take you know the push back, we're gonna have to have the people power, which means new donating a dollar ten dollars would you can, but also people be unwilling to on peer to engage unawares and social media gonna win, although Colbert women not be able to be door, knocking four November, but you know we can certainly engaged in the fools. We can engage in social media were putting a very robust volunteer operation here, but if your pulse

here in the Sun Louis area. During a bolt, worry you, you have re progressive district attorney's in me, your help and- and I strongly encourage you because the other component to this as a criminal justice reform, really needs to start with electing the aims that are going to do. The right thing he's right than if you consider that the district attorney's on the major urban centres and this country will you want a ride. Mass incarceration are to want. It could write a reform. Obviously Elias. Yes, the this huge monster you is bigger than over thirty staging over ten and a half million people. So we drive the dialogue rates and nobody else does you I strongly encourage. You speak to your heart. For you know, people are in those areas. There are police, known aid. Please help us Yes, you can work, you can look at the website, I do not understand, or she actually listed all China was theirs

lot of waste to engage here is right: the war there and, in general, the allegation, civil disobedience and exercise your first I'm right, but room at the end of the day, if you gotta be able, if I'm gonna followed through. Ah you can. The thing is, I don't go again until health reasons over, but you're not gonna, get pursuing impact. Amen to that. Thank you so much you do the show. I hope everyone will check every website in just look. Whether or not you can now, I get educated on these issues think about finding up more progressive dear to run where you live, but we have to focus locally first. I am so grateful for your time. Thank you so much based George Gascon for joining us today. We will talk to you later by everybody. Pod. Save America is a product of cricket media, the executive board.

There is Michael Martinez, our system produce. Is Jordan Waller, its mixed in did by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is our sound engineer, thanks to tie he's so many Katy Long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline resting Annalisa Gutierrez for production support into our digital Eliza Cone, Normal Conan yell freed. In my look him who film and upload these episodes is videos every week.