The Supreme Court rules on Native rights and Trump’s taxes, the President bullies schools to re-open, Joe Biden and progressive Democrats find common ground, and Kanye West flirts with a presidential bid. Oklahoma journalist Rebecca Nagle talks to Jon about the legal victory for tribal nations, and Color of Change’s Rashad Robinson talks to Dan about Facebook’s handling of hate speech and misinformation.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Welcome to save America, I'm John Fairer Dan Pfeiffer,
these pod Dan talks to Russia, Robinson from color of change. One of the activists leading the fight against facebooks handling of hate speech and misinformation
I also took to Rebecca Nagel host of crooked media's this land about this morning Supreme Court,
ruling about native rights. Before that, we'll talk about why
we'll trumpets bullying schools to reopen this fall, whether or not it safe to do so. How
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I want to start with some pretty big news from the Supreme Court this morning with a ruling that upholds the treaty that says nearly half the land in Oklahoma is a reservation that belongs to native America.
And to give us a little more insight about what this means were joined now by Rebecca Nagel and Oklahoma
as citizen of the Cherokee Nation, whose podcast this land tells the riveting story. Behind this case, and what's at stake Rebecca is releasing a bonus epoch.
Of this land next week. We shall talk more about all this, but for now welcome to the show ya think he's summits are having name.
So big day good day for those
those who who haven't had a chance to dive into this land? Yet, can you give a quick summary of what this case was about and in what was at stake here yeah? So the cases brought by a man injun seem a girl who was convicted of crimes by the state of upper homer. He is a tribal citizen and his crime
happen on reservation of Moscow, recrimination, creek nation, and so he appealed his conviction all the way to the Supreme Court. Art
Wayne that Oklahoma did not have the jurisdiction to convict M, because his crimes happened on a reservation arrest.
Mission that Oklahoma for the past
History has acted as this. It no longer existed, and so that was really what the thrust of this case was is does miss Kogi Creek nation and, by extension, a total of five tribes and Eastern Oklahoma still have their reservations or because
you know so much time has passed or would be extremely inconvenient for all the white people who live there? Is there some other conclusion that the courts can conceal and in a decision that did not hold back at all worse, its wrote that on basically you know this,
and was promised to miss Kogi Creek nation and that the Supreme Court was gonna hold the government to its word.
Can you give us a little bit of your reaction when you were when you read the ruling this morning, since you have been
investigating this researching
following this for so long
yeah, I mean I woke up this morning very emotional and not like with us in stomach and my God
I mean, I think, throughout history, you know indigenous people,
in this country in a government, has just invent a new reasons and new ways to take away our land, and so I was like cry was pursued white teeth. I was, I was ready. I was already pull away, raids and sadness and then the second the decision came out. I am the first thing I looked for actually was who wrote at and when I saw that it was written by Gore said
I just I started crying and down yeah it was. It was really emotional. It's been really dry here and for people who know Easter Oklahoma. Like me,
we get a lot of rain, and you know like all of the grass in my life is tat. It is,
been very dry and Ryan around this time that the decision came out. I just started pouring and home, I'm gonna start crying, but it's just you know over the course of history. We have really just ask for the United States to follow its own law. You know its own constitution, its own set of laws that govern our light, our rights and our land rights and soul. So rarely does, and so it's just such such a big win win people in power. You know use that power the right way.
For those of our listeners who haven't yet listen to this land, could you explain a little bit about why, when you solve it Gore such a usually very conservative justice was right.
The majority opinion that that was what made you realise that the ruling went the right way. Yeah
No, I mean, I think, that when it comes to indian law, wake you you can't, you can't talk about parties, I mean your native Americans tend to be Democrats and Democrats. Tens of support
issues, but you know, like I think, are really good. Example is that we got for. We have four native people in Congress right now. Two of them are Democrats into them, Republicans in our
and so Gore Search is what people call its actual. As so, he looks at the long, he looks at the plane tax law and he interprets that and the plain text of the constitution. The plain text of these treaties says that this land is still reservations and it gets a lot of sexual us, don't apply back in the treaties and the laws governing made of rights, the gorse stars, and he does it uncompromisingly and so yeah, I think
that's him him being added to the Supreme Court. If we can keep Ginsburg being against learned on our side, we might actually for the first time in U S, history, see a court that tends to rule in the favour of native rights. We throughout history have basically lost the majority of time that our rates have gone up against. The Supreme Court will honour knew what, if anything, will change as a result of this ruling and what
other cases involving native right. Do you have your? I now that's a really good question, so I mean what's funny
about this historic whirling and what's gonna change on the ground is, but the answer is actually very little war, so I'm the Supreme Court has actually really limited tribal jurisdiction over both none in
and on reservations and land on reservations, that's also owned by non any ends, and that's not the majority the residents and enjoy land on these reservations, and so you know for folks who you know livings Oklahoma, like their life, is gonna go forward without much difference. I think what it really changes for the tribes
You know we have been losing aware and losing restricted status on our land.
Over a century. You know it's just been a slow bleed of the laws Oklahoma set up when it was created as a say, and so I think that this really affirm our sovereignty
Unless this rebuild. You know, I always talk about leg in Turkey, history. Everyone points to the trail of tears, as you know the most dramatic moment in our streets. But from that moment we rebuild actually the period of Turkey history right after the trail of yours is called the Golden your ass, because we flourished in our new land. But then, when Oklahoma was created on top of our land, it was divided up. Are we were preyed upon? Our land was stolen, like we have never fully recovered from that history, and so I think of this decision. As a opportunity,
for our tries to start to rebuild with our sovereignty and our land rights, finally being recognised, so one less cushion before let you go, what are some of the things that people can do right now to ensure that this national focus on systemic racism and injustice includes native rights? Yes, yeah yeah. I think that that's a really really important way, because I think that one of the ways
entire indigenous racism functions as a racial ray, and so it's like yelled everybody, listen it's past. I would challenge you to name the people whose land you live on
You know my name name unimportant Supreme Court decisions, rock history: that's not this line that impacted meteorites, like you probably never heard of you, know all of fine or the marshal trilogy. You know these like foundational things, and so I think that that invisibility is absolutely why we get Supreme Court decisions that make no sense and rule against triumph over time, and so I think it's really an opportunity for people to both educate,
themselves and also to arm. You know consistently do that for its not just be you know this moment or this squash point, but for it to be something that is an everyday part of
media in the news that report
good advice, Rebecca. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for making this land. Everyone go check it out. If you haven't already and be on the lookout next week for a special bonus episode of this land, you can
scribe, wherever you get your podcast,
back, an eagle good day, thanks for being here for part of it. Thank you so much
So then the other major piece of news from the Supreme Court this morning that we should just briefly mention the justices, reject
president drums argument that he has quote absolute immunity while he's an office and opened the door for prosecutors to obtain his financial records,
the court actually ruled in two cases, one
having manhattans district attorney the other House Democrats. While the ruling clears
way for manhattans DE to pursue a subpoena for the records. The case is going back to a lower court and drums workers are probably going to be kept
secret underground jury rules until after the election. In the other case, the one that involves the congressional requests from has Democrats, the court basically push things back to a lower court and rule that the house can have access to the same records for now, citing some issues that have been unresolved about the separate,
powers Trump took the news very well this morning rushed twitter to complain about how unfair the court was to him through and some other grievance,
about the Mahler hoaxing in gate, he wrote. This is all a political
prosecution. I won the Mahler Witch Hunt and others, and now I have to keep fighting in a politically corrupts New York, not fair to this presidency. Our administration
then you any reactions to the other, the other rulings from this morning. Well, I think it does
Rulings are good for the rule of law for the long term by
we shouldn't have to point out. The president's are evident.
For her criminal prosecution if they can, if they are suspected of committing crimes it we shouldn't have to point out that they are not immune from the firm congressional oversight by it is.
I think these these wrongs or a loss in the sense that the way the Supreme Court very specifically wrote. This
It is going to deny voters the ability to know why, if any conflict of interests, Donald Trump has brought after event November spoiler. He has
At the moment you can just presume I guess
the report lopsided plenty of evidence. Plenty of evidence points to be healthier, that, yes, he does. He has plenty of conflict of interest. He is plenty corrupt,
it's a blank canvas thanks. I regret the way of thinking about it. I do think it,
and you know it does- leave him open. Hopefully, if Joe Biden winds and he leaves office and down troubles office, it really does open him up to prosecution in in the Manhattan DE case. I think, which is something that you know we can look forward to because we care about the law we care about you.
This being done, that's why I, let's get to some other news of the day, Dana last week's
so we answered, we insert a listener question about schools, reopening this fall. You know it's a very challenging issue for kids teachers, parents, the economy, kind of issue that you really really deserves. Thoughtfully
They grounded in science, but we live in doubt trumps America, so shortly after the CDC release guidelines for safely bring students back to school, the president jumped on Twitter on Wednesday and accuse the agency of asking schools to do very quote tough, expensive in practical things, threatened to cut funding for schools if they refuse to just open and accuse Democrats of wanting schools to remain closed for political reasons later in the day. Vice president, my pensive, the cdc, would be issuing new guidance for schools at the White House would be quote looking for ways to give states a strong incentive encouragement to get kids back in school as Congress takes up the next round of pandemic relief. So then, here is just some of the CDC proposed in their original guidelines that central spiralling desks at least six feet apart and facing the same direction: lunch in classrooms and set up a cafeteria, staggered arrival times, cloth, masks for staff and daily temperature screenings for everyone. What's trumps problem with all that
It's not clear what his problem is its very common sense. This is a very complicated issue where we have various information, and so I want to try to separate various parts of it, one, the things it that the CDC is asking are not who are not not on paper hard by it, because we have been under funding public education for debt
in this country. There is many classrooms, overcrowded and so six,
need a part is not an option.
In many many many classrooms right. So we know because it we
are in the middle of a pandemic, and the economy has gone through the floor. There is not money for testing Rayther and we have not- and I think perhaps most importantly, we have not
spent the many months since the we began since we began responding to the kind of ours to prepare for this moment.
Our government has done essentially nothing to help school districts do this, and so it
We try to sort of like walk off schools earning a few weeks and realise that there is no plan of theirs. I introduce. We just wants to shove, kids in the schools, without a plan to make it safe for both the students
also the teachers and everyone else who works in a school. So I guess the threat of cutting funding for schools from the trunk administration is now really gonna help this situation.
In any kind of way for its also not real right. Ninety four:
Anna funding for schools is state and local,
Why doesn't shrunk has is a crazy. You can't really do. There is the I guess we should say that the in terms of pandemic relief- and there is some money for schools in the last round of relief, and there has been money proposed for schools in the current relief that there,
they're gonna, be debating over the next few months. So there is some thought that the trumpet ministration could play around with that, but certainly most of the money that schools get is from state and local governments right the vital role in majority of sharp threats. This one is not based in reality right. Why do you think trumps picking this fight right now
he's just really working for a fight by. He is a man who he only thinks of politics in the context of which issues
and this is a really really hard thing for parents right. You know people have been working for home with kids. That is essentially an impossible situation right and
You know, and you can use it if you talk to any parent of young children, the idea that their kids will still be home, doing distance learning throughout the fall is
devastating and is devastating for their ability to be functioning adults into do their jobs is devastating for their children, because the distance learning thing is basically impossible, though it is very limited impact. You know, depending on the age of certainly fur
you know the age of the children, and I think, unlike previous fights, the trumpets picked about the opening, the economy and mass events.
That he has some backing on. His side were, at the Academy of Pediatrics, have recommended that schools open
If we know with some coffee out about safety, but there is a belief that schooled need to open both for the well being of children, both in the short term and long term and for the economy, because economy cannot open if people's kids can go to school, because people can't work and so he's looking for a wedge issue, I think he's making the same mistake he's made on every part of this, which is just by looking for the issue. He simply revealing that he has not done the work
it takes to solve the problem, so I M thinking that, like you know, it's obviously not just trump that want schools open the of the American Academy of Pediatrics also issued guidelines on how to safely reopen schools. I asked the question is:
I would like to play the game of like what, if we were in a normal administration, that was not trump and we had this challenge of opening school safely in the middle of a pandemic. That has not died down like what would it look like to open school safely, and where should Joe Biden and the Democrats be on this one? I think that
like just like with the economy, did Joe Biden Democrats should work to avoid tromp sort of by forgetting the issue on he's are opening. Schools and Democrats are for closing. Schools could have not their position right. It's open without a planner open with a plan, and so having
plan is the way to do it and we need Democrats do we know they have taken steps in Congress to have funding for testing for schools to help them do this.
There are a number of other ideas, other so like having ever a specific plan, helps with that challenge in a normal worlds. I mean this is a bit like this is complicated by the fact that we know so little about this virus. You don't really,
You know, there's been like. I have read so much about this, because our daughter, who is only too but like under the normal course of business, was planning to start in two weeks to go to a over several there. We programme for two year olds
and so you know you, you see all these studies about how kids comics
go on Europe and Asia and there have not been transmission of covered by also.
No and told me that point. The sweetness of the schools are open and all these countries,
but those countries did the work to contain the spread of the virus and they're having a couple hundred cases a day
you know we're setting new records on a daily basis of front of irish infections, and so what it looks like is, I think, ramping up testing wrapping up contract tracing
wrapping up resources for schools? You know Emily
Stir. Who is a brown economist and rights? A lot about
for parents. You will soon reach a lot of Emily US turf
well, I've been I've been reading crib sheet to prepare the S,
and you know it:
As an idea where you take, you know, call at young people
like college students who may be taking a gap here, because their schools are not coming back in a full session and hire them too.
Work in schools, do not trained teachers, but they can help fist,
activities. In other things. In order to you no sort of separate kid, so you know you can reduce the number of kids in a classroom at one time because
the limits on how you do so. She listens to both room in the class and number of adults who can watch the kids safely
and, like there's a whole host of things. You can do to get people to do it. You can search funding to get surge teach for american things like that
but none of those things are happening. We did nothing right, it's like we. As a country. We made two fundamental errors, which is the whole point of flattening the curve is to prepare, and if we had really thought this room, we would have worked out
words from the opening its because that is the thing gets a whether my restarted was a couple months then summer and
could manage that both from a kiss lorry perspective in an economic perspective, and then you could into you would say everything we are doing is to reduce the spread to a manageable level and prepare terms of infrastructure and funding and teachers forts opening at school. We did none of that. Then we did incredibly stupid things, which was prioritized opening of bars and indoor dining over risk.
Which meant to make a more likely. Schools can happen safely and so like it is. It is a gigantic mass and we have lacked any federal leadership, as evidenced by the fact that trumpets tweeting at his own cdc about their guidelines, is by speeding up the phone call.
Then it's such a mess, I mean look, you know, and this is in the American Academy of Pediatrics statement and guidance to like you know. There is evidence that, obviously, kids don't contract this virus as easily or pass it on as easily younger children, especially, but, of course there are people with a sort of underlying conditions that you have to think about their our teachers. There are older teachers it. This is. This is not an easy thing to figure out. Even when you stipulate that distance learning,
is not only hard but not nearly as effective and not doable for many middle class and lower class families, and so we do have. This challenge is not an easy solution, but it does. He, like you, said that a normal working government would adequately resourced. Schools would have also made sure that we don't have served out of control outbreaks and a lot of places where we have out of control outbreaks right now, because sort of having communities with lower transmission is probably the best way to guarantee that schools are safe. You could do it. You said frequent testing of all students and teachers constantly. You could and then a contact tracing programme where you I saw people who do catch the virus as fast as possible to cut down on the spread you can have
classroom door. You can open windows, you do all these things, but you know we are because of Trump in his mismanagement in the situation, we're always in where it's going to become some political fight right, and it's just going to be like
what they want have one side before opening schools and one side for not be open for opening schools when the reality is a complicated debate that takes science and education, experts and parents and everyone to likes or come together and figure out the best solution to a very difficult challenge, and that is where we are right now.
Fucking infuriating I you know I get the sense on. It's only been three and a half years by
Brian dad science is a way to solve. Complex problems is not necessarily in trumps. Skill set the record, the fifth
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a party which may be on the verge of becoming, at least for the selection. One big happy dysfunctional family,
not even a dysfunctional
does my or there is always some dysfunctions. I had to throw that in their first first
evidence from data guru, Nate Cone of New York Times in their most recent poll,
There's a battleground states who said Bernie Sanders was their top choice, for president said they backed
Joe Biden over President Trump eighties,
ten percent to four percent democrats, who said
Elizabeth Warren was their top choice and the primary back to MR by never Mr Trump
by a staggering margin of ninety six percent to zero
not a single Elizabeth warned supported to be found not backing Joe Biden Data. How did we get from others contentious, prime,
debates and twitter wars, to this
why. I think it is
I to say that the panic over a divided democratic party was even overstated at the time and in the end that is born of you noticed, meaning we laugh about it. But the presses obsessed with the Dems into.
Ray narrative and veto in some of them at the certainly there are some particularly wild horses on twitter who drove that conversation in the run up to the ending of the primary outside. But it's also the backdrop has changed, which is that this was always gonna, be an incredibly conscripts one serious election, but it feels
exponentially more with what's happening right now, right they time to play around in, and you know, sort of trying to make me to make a statement or whatever else with your vote feels so disconnected from what is happening. The any idea you know in the people who use this was a common refrain among a very small business people, but a consequential percentage people until six images
tromp Hilary are not that different right. Just when you look at what has happened in this country's in front of virus, hey, even if you had ignored everything that happened previously set from his elected, you just cannot like the consequences of having tromp in uniquely Trop and uniquely Republican UK government in charge of the government at a time of a pandemic in a circle, and employment is so obvious that
It view it pushes for unity, and I think that a thing as he credit should go to Joe Biden as Gonna Theo.
And his campaign in all of his opponents, most notably Bernie Sanders for working incredibly hard to unify the party. After this
there's a few things going on, and so it's hard to sort of sight,
any one factor as to what has changed right like it, you can. We can't sort of re, run twenty twenty with Hillary Clinton as the nominal.
And say. Okay would it be different this time because people have seen what Trump is like for four years, and so they would be backing Hillary right now, much like they are backing Joe Biden like we. We can't do that, but that could be a factor. Trump obviously could be at a driving factor in all. This
You know me points out in his peace in New York Times how it wasn't quite like this and twenty six
I mean you know. Some research suggests that up to twelve percent of Sanders, primary supporters ended up backing trump and the general election, but then eight points out that these voters tended to be relatively conservative, white and rural and didn't actually come back to Bernie in the twenty twenty primaries. What did you think of that point?
Yeah, but I think that is certainly right- that there may be some number of people who were in China that we thought of his sinner supporters in two thousand and two:
Stating that we as Democrats have not seen since right, sinners
coalition was different this time and it was a coalition that was much more liberal.
Much more uniformly liberal and therefore more willing. It seems to back the democratic over the Republican yeah
and what you said. I think there you know there are different
and how the candidates and their supporters acted in twenty twenty versus twenty. Sixteen, you know- and there is too big examples of sort of this Inter Party dynamic of coming together, has been playing out. Both happened on Wednesday. The first was when our good friend and activist ADI bark-
announced he'll be endorsing Joe Biden after finally landing an interview with the former vice president for adding series where he interview dumb. All the candidates in the primary here is a clip of that conversation between audience and Joe Biden Vice President
Biden, I can't imagine there isn't a moment that this campaign is not in some way bittersweet, even though
sometimes feels impossible. I keep fighting for health
and doing the work I do for my son, Carl
my daughter willow. I just want them to be proud of me
from everything I have heard and read your son though
in exceptional man, I am
oh sorry, for your loss if he were with us today. What do you think
would be saying to the american people what would be his guidance in
difficult. Our, I think I hope
he d say.
At. My father is totally authentic
Whatever he says he'll do, he will try to do.
You'll never mislead. You
when you make a mistake, you'll tell you he made a mistake and take responsibility, and
I was not popular. He will
push things. He feels are a matter of principle,
made to our values. I heard
that's what he would say.
It is on.
My dad, you seven expression, it say:
you know your success as a father if
turn a look at your child.
Realize he or she turned out better than you.
Both died, bracted ideology,
He said Bob Wide Moose Joe to point now. That's the whole thing to be objective.
Have objective standards.
I've been fairly success.
But my children?
I've done better than I am.
Every day. I ask- and I said ass God truth in: U s you'll be asking yourself too.
My kids do remember the proud of me. That's why I do the work I do
to make sure that Willow and Karl are proud of me. Thank you, Mr Vice president,
For this conversation, I am eager to do every
I can t help you when in november- and I look
forward to having you as our president next year, Dan. What you think of the interview and bodies endorsement I mean, like I had to take a moment to collect myself before we could do the spark
is to mean. Obviously we talked about ADI a lot over the last few years. I ve been doing this and he is one of the most inspiring people that we never been around and listening to him talk about how he is spending the last part of his life. Doing this work for his kids of every kid like gets me every single time minutes and then listening to Joe Biden talk about what drives him and how he has dealt with the loss of bow. She something that things unimagined any one particular data to any parent about what losing a child would be like, no matter how will they are whether their younger or you know,
don't like that when it's just you know, is it like it's it's heart and inspiring all the same time and I think listening to Joe Biden there, what it makes me think about him and why I think he is uniquely positioned to lead this country at this time,
is it out. They Germans or indiscretion term is like a regular guy right. I got some politicians like to do it like I'm from Scranton
and a middle class job and legality.
That is certainly true and having no joint for our time, like Scranton and his neighborhood of clay, my Delaware, which near I grew up like I think those die,
our part of him, but it it's, not
like Joe Biden, regular guy, it's like Joe Biden, regular human he's, a human who has
is emotions and his laws on his sleeve at all times, and therefore they are for the world to see, and he
eyes think in wrestle with his own flaws and his own imperfections in a very public, and I think, reassuring way that is different than the way a lotta politicians handle in that came through
in that interview in em, like obviously, we are talking here. Do this in the context of a unified democratic party and having one
America's most important most prominent? Have it gets four Medicare for all endorsing Joe Biden on this day mean something, but I think that conversation also reveal a lot about what s great about both of those men
yeah and, if you say the regular person, but there there's nothing regularly. There's nothing typical about
the sheer amount of tragedy that he has faced in his wife, losing so many immediate family members and doing so, while living a very public life as a public figure- and you know I think in a moment where the country is going through. Such tragedy in such loss
That does make him uniquely qualified in one way. I look. I love the interview for other reasons. You said I I had always,
told ADI that I thought he would connect with by
on that level, even as they disagreed and what I also liked about. The visa full interview, which you should all go, watch on now this and go to bodies, twitter feed and you can see how the clips is. You know they both
stood there ground on what they believe too, and they were. They didn't afraid they weren't afraid to disagree with each other and when we know this, because that is that done this on the part of many times out, he was not afraid to press him. It was not just some softball interview where they pretend to take to get along and agree on everything
back and forth on Medicare for all, and
Joe Biden, said how much he hated insurance companies to and has had to deal with. Insurance companies he's not he's no fan of private insurance, but also thinks it sort of the best way right now to get the full coverage talked about his public option.
Said that he'd be going further than he did in the primary
of nodded it more ideas to come, especially around providing for the options have Homecare paid for an elder care paid for not as part of Medicare, but just as a basic right. Also, there are talking about criminal justice. You know by talked about banning no knock warrants, which you mentioned before, but also talk about redirecting some funding for police, even though he said he does not agree with defined the police.
Open to redirecting some some police funding and em. You know there's one moment when I think you know Biden talked about how he wants to propose like fifty billion dollars for the National Institutes of Health. I said that wasn't enough and then by said well, if it's not enough, Madam President, you come to mean we'll talk about it, we'll figure it out, and I do think that sort of reveals the kind of president see the Joe Biden would offer like it's not going to please progressives all the time, but there's always gonna be a seat at the table for them and he's always gonna listen and there are times when he's going to change his mind and agree with them, and there are times when he's not but he's open and he listens. You know, which I think is really important and that sort of speaks to the other big news on this front yesterday was the release of the Biden Sanders unity, taskforce, recommendations there on six issues: the environment, criminal justice, the economy, educate,
in healthcare and immigration. The document with the full statements and recommendation is hundred and ten pages long, so you won't go through it all. But here are some of the highlights on health care by now supports all low income. Americans would be odd,
medically enrolled in either Medicaid or a premium free public option, government Healthcare programme on climate, a commitment to carbon free power by twenty thirty five, instead of his original twenty. Fifty on criminal justice automatically sponging marijuana convictions didn't go so far as to favour federal legalization, but does leave legalization up to the states and decriminalize is there's plenty more. But here's what Bernie Sanders said about the recommendations. This is from Bernie. He said quote: if implemented, they will make Joe Biden.
Was progressive president. Since Sdr does from Bernie Sanders. Then what did you think of the recommendations and are there any big ones that I miss that you found notable? No, I don't think, there's any big when she mess. I think those are those are right and I'm in those of the most important ones. I think it it's the point you just made, which is the progress that was made
demonstrates that Joe Biden has a willing to listen and be he can be moved with activism and so
I think it is a message to everyone who cares about Climate Medicare for all legalization of marijuana, that the work doesn't end on the data whiteness worn it is to keep you can keep
pushing him and keep engaging with him in good faith and that there is a real opportunity to make progress, and I think it is to the credit of everyone involved in both the bite inside the sand or side that this process worked out. The way it did. There are a thousand potential pitfalls here. Were people could be unwilling to move on issues and people were willing to compromise on both sides, and you hear you end up in a world where you have exemplary Cassio, Cortez tweeting, about support for Joe Biden,
climate agenda. And what happened? You have the activists, onsite understanding like sanity reigned here, and I think it's really important progress and people should feel good about it, because I think so often you know that when these working groups or for science, like oh, it's a working group, it's gonna be announced consequential as the platform. It is really matter, but actual real progress was made so the starting point or what Joe by an obligation, looks like when he gets to Congress and introduces it has moved since become more progressive and more both because of this work. They starting point for the conversation around what we're gonna do on climate, both from his executive actions within his government, to what happens in the house in the Senate has moved to be more
progressive because of this work. I think that, like that progress should not be discounted by anyone. Even if people didn't get everything they wanted. Yeah I mean look. I think that you some of the function,
sunrise movement retweeting about this yesterday- and I think so often we talk about these sort of unity task forces in coming together. In terms of you, no building a coalition that can, when the election but its clear, that progress was made on a real substantive policy front, that, if, by an wins, will sort of pay dividends in abide administration and when the sunrise folks, retreating
This is, as you know, we're really hopeful, not just because Joe Biden was a nice guy and accepted recommendations, but because we have built a movement that is powerful enough to compel potentially the next President states to adopt some of the good
because of that movement, which is a real and you know, ass, a sort of said, the same thing it it's a real recognition of the power of activism and the power of electoral politics, because I think,
we're at a moment right now, there's a lot of young people who are very progressive, but sometimes they are cynical for good reason about politics in public life and electoral politics, and this is another example- and you know ADI proves this as well as another example that when you that that, when you mix activism with electoral politics, good things can happen and you can actually
progress and doesn't happen quickly and there are setbacks, but it can happen. The coronation we just had about the policy working groups and the polling are not disconnected right, which is
Joe Biden isn't commanding political position both within his party in the electoral and so
there could have been a world where he said what I want the primary
I want to buy a lot I am winning. I dont have to make any concessions right, but
There was compromise that right and there is a world where Saint
Supporters could say what your winning by a lot. We know
to give you our votes. Re like it is. There could be a twenty sixteen redux in that situation, and everyone avoided that that potential trap and actual progress was made. That, if Joe Biden has elected will make people's lives better,
that's all you can ask for or by the way they could have said, wherefore Medicare for all and where, for the green new deal and those are our plans and if you're not for those plans, we don't have anything else to talk about, and they did know that they didn't hit it. So it's it's, it's it's good on them as well.
One more point on consolidating the democratic election before we move on. It's not all optimism. Deep Dave Waterman from could political report noted that, even though by and is doing better among progressive and young people than Hilary didn't twenty, sixteen is actually doing slightly worse with non white voters than she did particular with latina voters, almost even with black voters, now quite bits, especially with latino voters binds wearing them by an average of thirty points.
Instead of forty points. What's your reaction to that, what what's going on there was, you know I like to find things to worry about, so that's why you out of an airline, as I see it, makes you feel more comfortable to soar.
To end this Good news parade that I get from the recent broken media. I mean
I think we should all be concerned about
like them in the summit have written about recently by this is true strategy is to shave widens margins. With these elements, the democratic
Base right in their running adds right now the running ads in Spanish, in Arizona enforcing elsewhere in the country that accuse abiden, cognitive decline and not up to the task. They are running ads in Philadelphia in other markets, with a high proportion of American, but about Joe Biden script.
Just as record in the nineties. Now the Trump campaigners Nazi were smart, so there also running adds it using Joe Biden of different,
police in those same markets in those same newscast. So this that have a choice.
It is something that is concerning and look.
The margin stay the same where they are right now, let's not can make a huge difference, but
the very real she answered, the bad Trump Wall
stable. I sum it politically, if not emotionally an end it.
It happens? Then this camera
because you know we
kilometers and we talk a lot about Florida. But if you are significant underperforming Hillary Clinton With-
latino voters, you're gonna, have real troubles in those states because that what the difference
between Hillary Clinton loss and Joe Biden when in Arizona is not just.
People in the suburbs, it's also a
organised, registering turn out latina. Voters say
duration in Florida and in Michigan
Pennsylvania and Wisconsin concerned are states that went read into
in sixteen in part because of lower turning
Am I african Americans, in those
and so there is work to do here
There is time to do that work, but we should not,
Take comfort in the end and the fact that
by doing so well with other groups that he may not need these voters. That would be a fatal error. In my view,
and I'll just say from
doing the wilderness and talking to lie these voters myself in some of these states. You know these are now
who were saying jobs
to moderate for me,
These are voters who- and this is what Stacy Abrams told Me- this is what Coronel Belcher, who you ve talked for campaign experts racked had told me. This is what a lot of the organizers who were working with letting o communities in Florida told me- and this is what the voters themselves told me- is that these are voters who are very cynical about politics in general and distrustful of the system and part of the reason their distrustful, especially black. Voters is because they know their votes have been suppressed in the past, that their voting rights have been restricted, and you know the thing it always
such measures is Cornell telling me that a lot of voters who who voted for Stacy Abrams in Georgia and twenty eighteen thank you know she won that race and she's, not governor. Why should I even bother again and reaching these voters? Alot of and a lot of them are black and latino and young ray
in these voters. It is really going to require the sort of you know close, I would say in person, but it's getting in the middle of pandemic, but really sort of intense, organizing and relational organizing and talking to people one on one and talking to people who are friends and friends are friends and
Really going to be the work of both the bombing campaign and their organizers, but sort of all of us all of us were working about save America and adopt a state and we're gonna have in a specific calls to actions that are that were given to us by some of these groups that are working to organise, blacken the Tina voters in some of these states. I think that's gonna, be the real work of the next couple months.
I had a twenty year either. I that's right in its also gonna, be it's actually organizing a huge part of any and all political success, but you also
have to give orders. These are reasonably by this. This I was gonna be different.
It is certainly about how you are going to deliver on the promises that you make after decades upon decades ago,
petitions not delivering on those promises, but it's also committed people, their votes, gonna kept my gets the big
like TAT is the port of utter suppression that we don't hang up,
action to which is sometimes you see just how explicit Brian camp was in Georgia in keeping over about here like
desert, the least subtle criminals in history, but
the lack of subtlety is a feature not above they all want to just make sure your vote doesn't count. They want you,
No, your phone socket account the more
was it a voter suppression. The bedrock is that means the next time. Why which
stand in line four hours upon hours, particularly at the recent getting corona virus. If a promising
or your vote out anyway right or your machines not gonna work and for all the insanity. We see around trumps crazy for by male tweets. There is a purpose and right in that
is to convince democratic voters. Critics african markets at em within those who are sceptical of who for good reason, that of voting and whether the votes will count.
Then there are likely to do so, and so there are a lot of elements of this, but this is something that all of us right. This is not where this is not.
Vice for Joe Biden time. This is for everyone up and down the ballot. Every volunteer to think about how we can combat this, because this election, as you know, has a very real chance of being very, very close-
one last item we were initially reluctant to talk about, but people have
so here we go we're going to cover it really quickly. Just answer questions
Congo West, has once again fluttered run for the presidency. He was a man
we endorse by you on musk, as is the world. We live in
in a wide ranging interview with Forbes such is putting a very generously we
learn that kind you would run as part of the birthday party
he's never voted before that, isn't
and I acts or that plant parenthood
leaves a white supremacist organization that does the devil's work and that he's ok.
Siphoning off black votes from the democratic Domini, even if it means helping Trump
I do want to sit here and analyze. Kenya. Let's just answer the question at this late point,
Can you get on the ballot in every state? Is a third party candidate? Candy?
in every state now. Can you get on about in some states? Yes, is it easy now is apposite
Yes, like? Let me give you an example right, so Michigan
The deadline for an independent candidate in Michigan has not yet passed county to get twelve thousand signatures by July, sixteenth, which is in
and weak, and so that seems possible, but not probable.
Some states are easier sundays. It's quite easy, as you may remember, from Tiger King job Exotic got on the ballot.
So it is very possible that you can. You can do that by its own
Likely, I think he's is someone who has shown a ton of organizational follow through in recent years, so he got
looting of ESA this recording on July nine. It still doesn't appear that he is registered as a candidate with the Effie see
according to publicly available records a candidate by the name of cod
yea. These nuts West Register is a green party candidate and twenty fifteen, but is now
of what it raising any funds. You know you did
Mr deadline in North Carolina, Texas, New Mexico in Indiana, and the states that have July deadlines like Michigan, are some big one
Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina, West Virginia Main New York, I'll, have July deadlines so and if he doesn't
make those deadlines, then you know you're. You have right in
Options are right in campaign that that's quite difficult to impossible to pull off as well. So that's where we are.
I mean like your ears- but I would say
do not live attention. This, yet do not worry about ass. If all the sudden candy starts hiring,
in writing the candidate without in the middle name. These nuts,
or, like sorts hiring organizers, then like now, it seems that we pay attention to it before that. This is just sort of click, bake for people, start
You know, I would say
that a plan
Connie runs for president to siphon off black voters from you.
Biden is the exact sort of plan that tromp in criminal come up with because it so obvious and stupid, and so likely to fail.
This seems to be more like kind. A sort of popping off, as he is wont to do added potentially, could be related to some
read music project, sneaker line, dropping or something like that, because, usually when he gets varying
aged in the world publicly. It's because there's something that he wants to promote, coming down the pike
We should say one last serious point on this related to third parties in general, and we sort I made this point before. But you know the new attempts at another peace based on their pole about sort of third party candidates in twenty twenty lotta pollsters are finding much less appetite for third party candidates this time around a that tends to happen during elections where there is incumbent on the ballot in two thousand and four, when it was Bush versus carry in two thousand and twelve, when it was Obama, verses, Rami. The third party share of the vote in both of those elections was way way down around one percent. It's it's much different when it's an open election like an twenty sixteen than the third party share goes up, and I think also because so many voters have such strong feelings about Donald Trump. This incumbent, particularly posters, are finding that when they give people the option to select the third party candidate in a lot of poles, they are not doing so.
Actually choosing between Trump or by an orderly, saying there undecided between those two, so that sort of the larger third party landscape for everyone. That's a real point to make within this kind. Yes, oh, yes, do you feel less good about yourself now we talked about this guy course, of course, corporates I've,
I sold on Sunday morning. I was taxing with Tommy about whether we should talk about a mundane, we're both like this is ridiculous and then, after a week of some of this coverage- and it lingering out- there's like let's just answer for folks and just and that we can move on-
I've had a lot of people treated me asking them. If this is something we should worry about, I got onto Billy
We are in the middle of a pandemic. You can
We find something else other than this way about by
as we say here, at least, as I say, worry about everything panic about nothing, and then
for Canada is true for anything else.
When we come back Dan talks, overshot Robinson from color of change. Pod
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He's a present of color of change in online racial justice organization, profound Robinson, Walkin opposing Amerika S, radically
you in color change have been spearheading a campaign called stop hate for profit, targeting hate speech on Facebook. Can you
let our listeners know what it is. You guys are trying to get Facebook to do in some help them understand what the problem is.
So we have a less than ten demands and they are really rooted in years of back and forth with Facebook, not just by social
disorganizations and users, but by the copper
shoes themselves who have joined us in this campaign. Nearly a thousand corporations at this point,
have signed on to stop hate for profit.
You know one of the kind of
Ongoing areas of problems at Facebook is an incentive structure that focused on growth
in profit over civil rights security integrity and what I mean by that is that
decisions about what type of
TED stays up or comes down it politically when it relates to politicians and political speech, voter suppression
like that runs directly.
Their government department, knots
In a separate, sorted entity
as a result, Donald Trump guest alive
about motor suppression on the platform, Donald Trump composed Post, something called about looters and shooters, which is clearly a cry in all four
vigilantes ease I shall open and and pushed back against protesters as his
he thought alluded to in posted in and they all leave that up and back Mark Zuckerberg will core Donald Trump
have a conversation over there.
As we have pushed on Facebook,
around their advertising, targeting advertising that would allow you to a target, a job just at men or tie
it housing just in white people,
of boiling previous civil rights laws that we want and what were over the years we ve been able to get them to change those things, but every single change over the years have come with bike fights and campaign.
In fact, those changes around the the marketing you know came after
the acl you and others had to sue Facebook,
Finally, we have to demand Facebook settle those lawsuit when they were still fighting them, I'm in court. You know that
are white and ass. Those organizations currently on Facebook, with groups that are talking about a second civil war and our posting and
the content and then advertisers.
Are showing that next to their contents, unbeknownst to these advertisers. All of this right is a kind of climate in a context where the profit motive and the growth motors of this platform run up against sort of decency.
And all of this sort of real clear ideas around freedom of speech which
doesn't allow MSNBC terrain on ads that are full of life, doesn't allow you know far
news terrain, adds that directly call for the killing of folks. Even if I may
disagree with a lot of things on Fox NEWS on and Mark Zuckerberg will say things like our eye catches. Eighty nine percent of this, but not give us transparency around his
we know that the content is all over the place in so many ways when they tell us these stories. We see the hurricane
it's happening outside on Facebook and then Facebook hands,
an umbrella and expects us to think that that's gonna be enough,
so you were in a meeting our normal say. Take us inside the room bite it take us.
At the zoo by the idea you are, you are part of a meeting. These
where's Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook executives earlier this week. You tell us
what a? What do you expect going into that meeting and what, if anything, came out of it? So you know
then in a meeting with the Facebook folks for the last five years at different levels in since twenty eight
teen really meeting with votes at the senior level, because in twenty eighteen the New York Times revealed that Facebook at higher appear pr firm, called the signers to attack color change.
I don't mind me sort of negative stories against us, and so at that point we ended up. You know
moving from meeting with no government relation staff and others about our demand to meaning directly with shrill sand. Bargain and others is out. You know we met this week, which was
me a follow up on a meeting that I had with them on June. First also on zoom in both those bee stings, you know Facebook has had our demands. It had a sort of the things that we point,
in walking into this campaign with the other members of the stop hate for profit coalition, we wanted Facebook to tell us what they were gonna work on, because to be clear, they act
for the meeting we didn't act with a meeting they reached out is that we want to be with you. So I was like that's got the meeting, let's hear what they ve got to say, and they are, you know
wanted to walk through our demands. Have us walk through them and explain them more?
and we can rely well now you Babby demand for years. Some of these demands are right out of previous previous generations, of your civil rights that you funded and has been out in the world,
but you know, I think the meaning ended up with a lot of sort of back and forth about trying to get into the new wants is, I think, the one thing that they did a sort of arms speak too, is the hiring of a vice president, I'm sort of connected in in dealing with civil rights, and we were asking for someone in the sea sweet and they put someone who's gonna be a vice president. It remains to be seen how much power
I'm in reach and budget. This person will have, but that I think, if anything is one, I'm sort of step for all of these. Automated platforms have real challenges. When it comes to hate speech, Facebook is unique in there
sort of, I think oxidants here like Twitter and Youtube for as small as he steps may be, have taken some steps. What is
You think this unique about Facebook that is making them so difficult, so the company is first of all so much bigger than these other companies. When you think about that
the size of Youtube and Twitter. You
combined their users, areas able ditched you anywhere near really. They spoke in terms of its reach. With two point: six billion:
You know our followers more kind of followers increased
he and so in just in that regard, they have insulated themselves from a lot of public pressure. There
public pressure round as they have so many advertisers and no single advertiser represents even up a kind of percentage of those of the final sort of seventy billion dollar at
profit, and then you ve got your then you ve got sort of a whole set of other things, working at Facebook,
they are really worried about regulation.
And they are really worried about government oversight and they are really worried about new rules because they should be because they are.
The operating under rules that were created before these platforms even existed and sell. Because of that right. They have created an infrastructure inside of Facebook, but once again allows for the folks who are supposed to be dealing with government relations, global government relations and there, the folks who the decisions about how so much of this content and is dealt with vows. This those decisions flow through those people, and so what's happened in this current political arab is this idea of conservative buys has been weapon eyes inside
a facebook so that every time they sort of deal with something that is hate towards algae BT. Folks are women or black folks or other books of color. They
I have to put it through the lens of what do we do
about conservative buys now there we live in a cunt.
That has laws, rules and regulations about protecting protected classes. While we call them protected classes, you don't you don't get protected because you're, a liberal or your conservative, you get protecting based off of things that you can't change base of who you are, and there are sort of histories and rules around there, but their weapon. Isis idea of conservative by
As to the point where I will be sort of pushing back on some of the decision, trees inside of Facebook and Mark will say to me,
you just don't want us to hire Republicans it. I will say that about right or left. This is about
right or wrong, and this
really clearly about you know who
the decision on what their job is every day and if aiding in? If you have someone like Joe Kaplan language as well,
and I dont want someone with a Democrat whose, like in charge of bees,
with the administration having this job, but I also don't wanna fast equivalency that Job Kaplan who sat behind Brett Cavenaugh during the
hearings in through a party for him afterwards, would be the type of person that would make it harder for my grandparents to be able to vote when they were fighting to be able to get access to the ballot, and that's right. There is the person who then gets to decide whether or not something is borders, a pressure not because this
I rise to him and the policy defined remained. There is obviously a world in which you know we wake up and twenty one
diatribe was no longer president
and so we no longer be a situation where we have a politician whose hate speeches being protected by Facebook,
Hate speeches are much bigger problem than just tromp on Facebook. You talk about
about that strictly, what's happening with some of you know in the list of the things you're asking faced,
we talk about, what's happening with white supremacy in grand within Facebook groups. Yes, a personal before I guess the white supremacy of base for good. I know only talk about politicians. We spend a lot of time about tromp, but
I also talking about the sheriffs in Arizona whom
say like a shock to the polish government to be collect. We're gonna be collecting papers, the council person in Mississippi.
It always saying he's gonna be checking criminal records at the polls
make sure no one is boating illegally because they ve been incarcerated. I'm talking about a whole range of politicians who have been incentivize in the history of voters, depression and the history of tactics that gets supercharged in this plan.
From but you're right. There are all sorts of groups on Facebook back continued a pop up entrance and then are allowed
flourish. There are white nationalist groups that are invited to set up new properties once they get on and they then their profit he's the Facebook close groups, the Facebook pages, then you'll get spreading amplify cause right. The incentive of Facebook is profit,
and so it is a kind of clothes group is getting a lot of people joining on and they are sort of calling for a second civil war. Then Facebook will start running adds against that right.
And so you know we ve had to show, and members of the coalition had to show like major corporations, their corporate logo and brands, their ads
sitting right next to the sitting right next to arm white nationalist content that
not only has been sort of allowed on the car on the platform, but is giving sort of permission to flourish, because this sort of
the rhythms, the rules of the platform incentivize. This type of cancer is to devise the growth of it because it all serves the bottom line, a facebook for profit.
Actually, as you said, colored changes also Sphere headed a campaign for justice
for the murder of Brianna Taylor and
The officers involved have faced any criminal charges and only one has been fired.
What is justice look like in that situation? And how can our listeners continue to put pressure on officials to do the right thing here? So a couple of days ones you got it
there are changed at work, and you should sign our petition, which is working to translate that energy both low
delete a build power around call tools that we ve created a scene caused directly to folks there to build.
Energy in the media were publicly but part
what we ve been doing up the last several years is building a kind of a platform around district attorney's. Seventy percent of the aid in this country run unopposed. Ninety percent of these
these are white. We have a real problem with district attorney's, actually prosecuting police in this country, because the incentive structures that have been set up mess up the district attorney's have to work with police every single day.
And they believe that they serve police, not the public- and I recently wrote about this in a New York times- are bad peace, where I really talked about
all the challenges that even progressive district attorney's, who were elected on into office and get all sorts of challenges to any type of changes from judges from the town.
Two more see a decrease in jail size to the fraternal order, police and
police unions and Fraternal Europe. These are just incredibly powerful forces right now that protect police.
We also have the whole politicians accountable cannibal. They say that they are working with us, but are taking money from police unions,
There are a lot of barriers that are standing in the way of justice for a Brian. I, like most people, just as good a think about this, for a second with all
attention all the celebrities, all the energy, all the rallies for justice? For
and in those police officers, still have not been arrested. Think about all the other
incense around the country were not as much attention gets on to it. We're not as much energy gets focused and think about sort of all the ways in which we have very different tiers of justice in this country. Very different systems of
our rules and that all relates back to power and so part of what we are really trying to do is rewrite the sort of rules a power. I talked about that sort of their fraternal order. Police
still standing in the way of power, and this also connects writer how we're thinking about justice, but Brianna
signing. That petition is one thing getting involved in work two whole days accountable and then challenging police unions and challenging the force
as they stand in the way of progress and cook county. I Chicago Kim, fought Susan
district attorney that was elected by a lot of movement organizations who helped power her raise any
she went. Added has lowered.
EL size is I'm happy.
Reduce jazz eyes has done. It
a number of things that kind of bats criminal justice reform along with a larry.
Nor will it out the arm in arm the district attorney in San Francisco and others are really
sharing in a new era of dna reform and de accountability. Welcome Fox decides she's, not gonna, prosecutable level crimes anymore. It's going to reduce,
over time for police they decide to march on her office. Everything's. Fine here
police unions marching on the DA's office. That's burst amendment rights right. They
And their marching go according to the Chicago, sometimes with for white nationalist groups, one being the proud boys
So they are marching on the first black woman deities office because she does something that she is absolutely allowed to do. They take out pictures of Kim boxes.
Basing they robbed them on her on a rubber face on their crotch the pictures of her face, and then they do it in plain sight, newspapers there
media that David bided there. They feel totally comfortable the next day, those same police,
if is put on their uniforms, their badges
nerf guns: do they go back into our communities to protect and serve and so part of why people are hearing called about a defined the police or downsize police tape or invest dive at it's, because we actually have to deal with the fact that we have been investing in the wrong thing and that police,
does have not been at the table to actually make fundamental changes because they're not interested and fundamental changes to safety and justice,
all of this is really connected, so yes, justice for Brianna, but part of how we really
really I believe, serve the long term goals of justice for Brianna is that we do all of the barriers to justice for the next Brianna Taylor as well, and we make the system are,
by changing the systemic challenges to any type of justice and freedom for communities.
Russia. Thank you. So much for all of your work at that
four during some pod, save America every
you're doing is so important, in fact in the region.
Thanks to shared Robinson for joining us thanks to Rebecca NATO for joining us, and everyone have a fantastic weakened, and I will see you next week.
One pod save America is a crooked media production, the executive power.
There is Michael Martinez, arson
producers. Jordan Waller its mixed in
by Andrew Chadwick Kyle Signal
our sounded junior faced a tiny, so many turkey, long, roman Pappa, Dimitrios Caroline rest in analysing the dear as for production, support and to our digital team, Eliza CO, normal Conan yell freed in my lookin, who film and upload these episodes is videos every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-24.