Trump does nothing about reports that Russia put a bounty on American troops, shares a video of his supporters chanting “white power,” and asks the Supreme Court to end the Affordable Care Act. Then Biden adviser Ron Klain talks to Jon Favreau about the state of the pandemic, and the state of the 2020 campaign.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Today's pod, I talk to bind adviser, run plain about the state of the pandemic and the state of the campaign before that
we'll talk about the stunning report that Russia put a bounty and american troops in Afghanistan, Trump Administration has done absolutely nothing about it.
The last time, but the president's decision, a double down on racism, is a twenty forty strategy and the fight over health care. They could shaped the fall campaign, but first love it
I was the show this weekend: great love it or leave it with Larry Wilmore who joined for the monologue, gray conversation and are a Berman came by to talk about efforts to stop vote suppression after the primary, as we saw last week, and we had highlights a guy brantome, an Travail Anderson from our pride
and was a delight quick note about two other cricket pods. The final episode of wind of change is now available on all platforms to check it out. If you haven't already unplugged save the people
you and in sand and welcome to new people to their team, Kyar Henderson in
Yara Ballenger will be joining for the news each week, Akai as the former chancellor of the DC public schools and Europe is a state department alone was also Hillary Clinton. Director of engagement, very exciting, very exciting additions. If you haven't already go check out, had saved the people.
Let's get the news, so the bar for accounts, as a bombshell story, has been raised pretty high here and there in the Trump era, but the New York Times certainly cleared it with their peace. On Friday, I quote: american intelligence officials have concluded that a russian military intelligence unit secretly offered bounties Taliban linked militants for killing coalition forces in Afghanistan and hears us even more stunning. The times reports. This information made its way quote to the highest levels of the White House, was included in the president's daily brief and was the subject of the National Security Council meeting in late March. It is now wait June in the Trump Administration has done absolutely nothing to respond to intelligence that Russia paid militants to kill. American troops
which, according to another report last night from the Washington Post, they succeeded in doing here's. What Joe Biden had to say shortly after the news broke. Not always, he found a sanction or impose any kind of consequences on Russian, for this are greatest violation of international law found trumpets continued is embarrassing campaign of deference and debasing himself before Vladimir Putin. He had has this information according to the tides, and yet he offered the host prudent in the United States and sought to invite rushing to rejoin the g7.
His entire presence as been a gift important, but this is beyond the pale.
Trail of most sacred duty. We bear as a nation to protect and equip
our troops and we send them in harm's way. Tell me Trump says he was never told, never briefed. The white has said he wasn't briefed, but they also haven't really challenge the central reporting about the existence of the intelligence report or the fact that there is an embassy meeting or the fact the administration hasn't responded. Yet I guess carry makin any. Just just now was given a press briefing where she said there was a consensus in the intelligence community about the report due using its believable
wasn't briefed and- and I guess beyond that was what's your general reaction to this all story- I dont think its believable. Let me look, I assume their lying with most things it, but this in particular I mean Russia deciding to put down he's on the heads of the. U S and produce service members is a very big deal, it's something that will require a policy decision and that you'd need to bring to the present I'd say
When I initially read the reports in that denial, I did wonder about the intelligence itself in wondered. Maybe if it was not strong, but there have been the subsequent press reports that say the basis for this intel was Navy. Seals found five hundred thousand dollars in. U S care.
Should a Taliban stronghold, which is very unusual, and then they were interrogating capture, Taliban numbers and they heard about the bounties. That way. The times also reported the CIA later confirmed, with the military, have learned that the? U S had briefed the you
hey on these findings, so those are all indications that we believe this to be true or we believe it to be credible.
To share with allies, and so I guess, there's a chance. A trump wasn't briefed on the information, because you liked it literally doesn't do his job. Read me. John Bolton in his book says trunk ass, the PD be once maybe twice a week doesn't read any intelligence reports. He doesn't try to learn
policy. So maybe their argument is like hey. We would a brief them if we had time, but he was too busy watching foxen friends, but you know I just think that in the other
Option maybe, as their so condition to hearing Trump get mad. When you hear something
it is about Russia. He has this weird affinity for Putin. He consistently takes Putin's word over his own government, so maybe they don't broach the subject anymore around him, but I look. I think we should just default assume that they are lying about this. Like many other things, what are some of the possible reasons for the troubled ministration? Not responding to this? I don't know it's, it is baffling. I mean options include
incompetence. The fact that he doesn't want to hear anything negative about Russia ever I I don't know. I mean it's really hard to speculate on. Why it is. They are so bad at the job, but there are a host of reasons one could
a lot of. What was your reaction to the story is very bad, very bad story. You know I was
struck by soap, so, first of all its remarkable, how much of our politics rotates around what this means for trial
even in the immediate, follow on to a story this damning, not just about trumpet about what Russia is doing to attack the United States attack. You enter
whether its interference on election or trying to have Americans killed abroad and immediately trumps respond
is, I don't know anything about this as if that's the most important question you know, we don't know what the truth is, will never
we'll never get a true answer from the White House about it was
something in his daily brief that he didn't read or to pay attention to with something that that they are conditioned by trumps abuse of office to not bring to him
it doesn't really matter. You know what we learn from the Bolton Buck. What we learn from
the reporting around Ukraine. What we just learned in reporting around what trumps
at about the weaker, as in China. You know Trump use everything through the land
of what it means for his personal relationships, his past present and future friend.
Social interests. You know buttons.
Spawns is all about your trump being in the pocket of Putin, and I understand that I get that, but we are constantly confronted by a president who, on across a variety of France, doesn't care about America's
This doesn't care. We live or die, whether its around the corner, virus or american service be numbers in Afghanistan, because its one hundred percent through the lens of what it means for him, his ego. What he said in the past
what he's trying to do around the g7 or what have you and it's just yet another from damning example of that.
It just like. This is one that I mean
The number of Republicans in Congress have also sort of like demanded, more information, including a trump supporting conservatives like List Cheney, Dame Crenshaw, Wednesday Gram. I see that their white has is giving a briefing today about this. Only to Republicans yeah employed or something
what way to build confidence, and now, in your response, yeah I mean it as I do think it's you know. I think I saw policy on a Sunday is talking about. You know, as I always say already led to Putin, but you know there is the Putin angle to this. There is also the angle that, just like, can you imagine, being american Service members an and learning that there was possibly about he put in your head by Russia and your commander in chief, do about it
or his administration knew about it and did nothing about it. Yeah me look, I think, that's why you see even people like Dan Crenshaw, who is like as he no bigger trump fan as as their comes tweeting, that we need to get to the bottom of this, and I think this is not going to.
For without in in the U S, military or among veterans. Immediate is really pretty staggering to just sit on this information for at least three months. There are some reports that they heard about this intelligence back in January, like what the hell was done to protect you, a service members from these attacks. We, like we literally. This is your job as commander chief. This is one of the most important things you it's urgent. Over determined should have Trump scandal. Right like it would be enough if he was sycophantic towards Russia, and we can't fully explained based on the information that we have. It would be enough if he was so grossly incompetent that he can
Reed or pay attention to the intelligence briefings he received, it would be enough if we had this deference towards dictatorial regimes. An autocrat around the world, like all of those individually, would be a scandal of epic proportions for the american presidency, but he does them all at once, and it makes really hard to mete out what the exact
innovations are and what's going on, inside the administrations and especially because
we're gonna tells the truth about it.
Yeah he's also like we learned emanate. Biden said this in his response, but since then, he's taught the prudent and invite
to the G7, knowing this entails
so we ve administration ministration. This intelligence I mean it is it is wild, but to your point on it
The motivation almost doesn't even matter at this point. It is yet another example of the fact that Donald Trump present aid states is just not cut out for the job not doing the job
Not you know, like the world happens around him crazy.
Happened around him and he is just sort of not they're not doing anything about it. That is like that the results of the same, even though we can't always tell what the fuck and motivation is within its bad,
so the president was, I was not going to,
this Russia story, keep him from his true passion of treating the most awful shit possible, are weakened
on Sunday he showed a video with his eighty two million followers. It showed his supporters driving a golf cart in
Florida retirement community, while chanting white power to a group of protesters in a tweet trump thank the supporters who he referred to, as quote great people
three hours later the tree was deleted in the White House said the Trump didn't hear the phrase white power, even though it was repeated three times by two men in the first twelve seconds of the video. A few weeks ago we talked about,
That NBC story about how the trunk campaign can decide whether the president should embrace police reform and give a speech on race and unity
or whether you should a double down on racist culture, wars
seems like a new decision atomic Lucky he is, he is based.
Clearly a rusty old confederate monument just waiting to be torn down himself at me. I love that
I love the suggestion that a phrase utter in the first ten seconds of the video just like you didn't hear it, but that, like a bunch of like a half dozen old people,
carved carts showed enormous enthusiasm for the Trump campaign illegal. Just it's not funny, because it is disgraceful that our president would tweet out white supremacist content repeatedly on top of all the
stuff you did this weekend but like there lies, are just so unbelievable at this point that I almost can't believe that for years into it, you still have the media sort of treating them as credulous
and being like well, the president says he didn't hear the obvious loud Nina white supremacist remark made right at the beginning of the video. It says it's a ludicrous. I also love, it noticed
I probably blunderby like it's a diversion and he's trying to divert distract us from the russian story, and I like,
Here's the thing. First of all
First of all, it is not
version, its morally repugnant racism. First of all, a second of all
if you want to talk about the politics of it, just from a pure.
Political level like. Why does he does
acting us to pay attention to something
It is also not politically helpful for yeah, you know, don't
attention drums launch of a nuclear missile into Western Europe is a distraction
Yeah, I'm not interested, not at all it's site, restaurant, its it is it is.
Amazing. It is now four years and sound from became the republican Domini, basically and we're
he'll playing this game with his sword of selective hearing? You know
says. There's great people on both sides, but wasn't talking about them saying Jews will not replace us now he's tweeting this white power, but he, but he deleted it three hours later after some criticism, because apparently he didn't hear
of course, he's like this winking, a nod that kind of not really plausible, but what they would consider plausible done:
ability on his ability to kind of send a message to the to the worst part of his base. The white supremacist bases his either
future political coalition or future audience at Trump Trump NEWS,
the renamed land, whichever way goes, he'll be fine and its some it
waste of time to be no debate. What is intentions where we know what
intentions where they ve been the same since he fantasized about bullets dipped in pigs, blood as a candidate. We know what he's after here, it's not a secret, it also seems like it is. It is much more than that tweet and whether or not he like an heard. The video I mean middle of a pandemic, corona virus cases, surging economies in the shit or police reform is
paused in Congress and is probably dying in Congress and on Friday his executive order is directing the Justice Department to prioritize the prosecution of protesters who damage federal monuments. So I dont trumps. Big move aspect was protecting those confederate statues and he thinks this is a winning issue, for he was also weeding out F B. I wanted posters of protesters who try to take down the statues all weekend. He basically think this is a burning issue, but it's not right like his culture, war, identity, politics at least
right now are not working for him and his campaign. Why do you guys think that is? I think people's views on race have changed and they change dramatically and I think the blacklist matter movement deserves a lot of credit for it. I mean they're. The reason your times for, I believe, had fifty nine percent of voters who believe that George Floyd's murder was part of a broader pattern of excessive police violence towards African Americans, black lives matter and the police have nearly identical, very favourable ratings, but trumps handling of racial issues. Art is disapproved by basically a too
one march, and so people are not stupid. They see that he is inciting racial violence and it is not lost on them that rushing to put out an executive order about protecting statues is an absurd waste of time when you have grown a virus cases spiking in the economy in freefall, and so like. I think people just seen through the
now what's particularly worrisome to me, is that a lot of these tweets seem to really be promoting like vigilante ism, when you're tweeting out like most wanted posters. When you have people taking violent action at protest like a new Mexico, there was one far right extremists who shot protester it like this is really bordering on incitement, if not already there and its really worrisome to me, but I do think like just politically. He is so far off of understanding where the country is right. Now
that is a very self defeating strategy. If there is a strategy at all, theirs is strange phenomenon. Right now you know, there's opened people joke or twitter is not real life twitters, not where life, but because so much of real life has been turned off
because of the pandemic in many ways like a lot is playing out on twitter and it becomes a place where people surface what they see and it becomes a place where some of the worst behaviour and worse conduct is shared. Like a victorian melodrama. You know it's there's like slightly whiplash piano music, and it's like look at this woman
throwing shit at a at an mp because you didn't want to, but where a massive look at this awful conduct that we saw a lot of it in
symbol of people selfishness, people's racism. That is a big part of this moment. Trump sees that and as President
he sees a rising kind of multi racial coalition currently protesting currently coming out in favour of more compassionate, more generous
policies and is not just a danger to him as a danger to the operating principles of republican politics, and he doesn't particularly know how to risk
but the one thing he knows is that what has worked for him in the past is fine. The sources of division find the places where there is the most animals and anger and rage and green,
Vince and spin that up share the couple on their long, pointing guns at protestors who are doing nothing more than passing by their
share a video claiming that there is nothing to the black lives Matter- Movement,
share an image of a bunch of all people bickering over him about him
including two old people. Shame white power like get Guenaud stir the pot in turn up the heat
add fuel to the fire and maybe just maybe there's a way he can win in that kind of divisive toxic environment. Yeah me like if you wanted that peace, that a stead Herndon wrote the New York Times with some of that point that Tommy
mentioned. If you're. Looking for like bad news in those pause, you know said, mentions in the peace you're forty percent of
voters, believed that discrimination against white people is almost ass. Bad now is discrimination against by right, but forty percent
white voters is not enough to get you.
Majority not nationally, not even in the battleground states anymore. We're Trump hasn't electoral college advantage and if you do get the sense that sort of the country is passing him by
on these issues. Finally, even though in twenty sixteen, you know he just eat doubt that majority in the battleground states, but I think the protests and just the passage of time over the last few years, who really shifted something on the day
The Trump shares that video, the Mississippi Legislature, voted to change its state flag, which still included the Confederate battle emblem me
The city by very large margin in the state are not a bunch of liberals dammit
Mississippi in the legislature, and
it has just like having the presidents its share that video on the same day that this is, if he doesn't like you know it, I dont know that he will do so lucky. He thinks the world a sort of what's happening on twitter and other fights on Twitter and fox and land, and that's really not an accurate
reflection of the country anymore, or even a majority voters in these states that he needs to win young and fifty five percent of Mississippi and wanted to change the flag
the. U S. Military was ready to tea up a conversation about getting rid of confederate names. On. U S bases in trumps. Move was just to shut down that conversation. I do think it shows that he is completely out of step with the country with institutions with southern states with everybody.
Yeah. I wonder to like it where it we're sitting here on a Wednesday November forth and Donald Trump was re elected and we look at how we could have shifted it. It would have had to involve the the
hold all kind of Vienna, unleashing of a negative campaign about Joe Biden that was incredibly effective. But one of things we talked about before and seen in these polls is Donald Trump shocking under performance amongst the seniors that used to be the people that we're gonna have to get him elected, and I wonder if there's some thought here, if you call it a thought,
but if there is any hope for him to win it's getting those white senior scared again getting them agreed began, getting them angry gang. Getting them back and
an immensely are almost scared of dying. You know right from the Koran virus. That is exactly right and if we wake up and that's the result, I think it will be less about the fact that he ran a white identity politics, racial grievance campaign, which remember and twenty a teen. He did this with the caravan in the last couple months also didn't work for him because it turned off a bunch of super
and moderate independent voters, even though it of juice some of his margins in the red States, if you put it together only because those seniors.
Are some are no longer afraid that he is sort of leaving them to fend for them.
Cells in the middle of a pandemic, and that he has done something to not only six the virus but fixed the economy. And then you know the focus has taken off his response to the sort of racial reckoning right now and it's back towards the account. That's the hope was not sort of running the same play that he's been running for the last couple years on rates. I dont think that works for having yeah. You look at this reckoning or we're having around racial injustice and the way it sort of reshaping the dynamics, even amongst white voters. On some of these issues, you look at the corona virus. How is only needed him from his base? You look at the Economic
situation and the fact that it has totally obliterated his main argument for his re election and used. You start to see why he is reaching back to find out
and there's no arrows back there for him to grab displaying the hits
one story with enormous implications. The broke late last week was when the Trump Administration file than eighty two page brief, that formerly asked the Supreme Court to strike down the entire affordable, correct.
That would cause twenty three million Americans to lose their health coverage and eliminate protections for
hundred thirty million Americans with pre existing conditions, the Supreme Court,
We hear all arguments in the case this fall, but will likely not decide the case until after the election on Sunday, health, inhuman service, the Secretary Alex Aser, was aspect tapir. What trumps Obama
replacement plan is, and he said they don't have the exact details yet Joe,
I'm responded in a speech delivered Pennsylvania on Friday. Here is a clip, perhaps
those cruelly of all down tromp, as is way those who have come.
Location some covered nineteen could become the new pre existing conditions, some
derives who experience lasting health impacts like long
scarring and heart damage and I've Donald Trump
rails in court, ensure
you'd be allowed once again to strip away coverage Jack up premiums simply because,
of the battle, they survived the Friday corona Virus,
Tell me. I want to know which geniuses in the White House, but it was a good idea to take away healthcare protections
Third in the country in the middle
The pandemic just a couple of months before the election yeah, it's some ice.
Like it. Maybe this is a fool's errand, but I do sometimes try to imagine the staff meetings where these things get decided in what the logic might be, and the only thing I could come up with is that we ve known since day
on that he had a long list of o bomber era accomplishments and that the affordable care act was like the big boss at the end right. It's like MIKE Tyson at the end, and he just why
the get to that you want to win the game and take down the Asia, but it is political insanity to to do this in the midst of a pandemic. I care, I must this bus Paul,
eighty per cent disapproval. I can't even imagine how bad the polling would be on the question of should free rip away healthcare from twenty three million Americans in the midst.
Of a pandemic. We love, it does seem like he gave some sort of indication of how unpopular this is when he treated in all, perhaps that he will
always protect people were pre existing conditions, always always always three estimation voiced here: honey. Look here! We are its way,
ten years into the repeal effort. Ten years of this right, it was you know,
As I said, I thought you were exactly husband. It's almost ten years ten years we have seen dozens of
in the house successful votes to repeal it when it was under republican control, obviously failed in the Senate, whence they actually had to do the political work of actually showing what that alternative to could be
We are now years into this legal effort to
undermine or or undue Obamacare from states attorney general and from now the trial
ministration. We are also years into the sabotage effort by the Trump Administration and by republican governors in legislatures in states that refused free money from the federal governed
to bring huge amounts of cash from the federal government,
into their states to provide healthcare through medicate. So we are now a decade into this effort and still
this day there is no alternative. There is no explanation for what happens because there is none. It is a lie if it is undone that will be it. There is nothing to replace it. There is nothing for them to do. They have no plans, they have no ability to do that.
So the only thing there really gonna do is lie about it because it is they ve.
Lying about a for a decade and alike and make something unpopular for a while. But what it can do is hope you build the coalition. You need actually come up with an alternative, they don't have one, and so this will continue to be a
now buttress around their necks, and I dont know why they continue to do it except to Tommy's point at something. They said they would do and again to earlier conversation, their base of older white voters have Medicare and don't you this is something that will hurt them so Biden of Ivory. Second, you he said in his speech that he's gonna outline a new healthcare proposal and x you weep to guarantee that no one would have to spend more than eight
half percent of their income on health insurance and poor Americans repay them less? You also reiterated his belief that a public option is more important than ever now that so many people are those new private insurance.
It doesnt highly unlikely he'll, just embrace Medicare for all, because he campaigned against the rebels to the primary loved using the current political climate allows him to move closer. I am like how far should we go? Can he got off? I think so. Act like
the the primary being fought on Medicare for all verses of public option into becoming pretty acrimonious, because that's politics and its fine, but but has, I think, made this debate a little bit confused me because I do think there ought to be a pretty big coalition of of Democrats coming out in favour to help the tens of millions of people who may lose insurance, because our insurances with their job in and were in the midst of an economic crisis to allow those people into a public program like there seems to be a real moment where, because of this economic crisis, we can we can debate the single pair
This is a public option. We think we should have that debate, but right now is a real moment where you could move millions and millions of people permanently into a public system in that does seem to be a place where there should be some alignment between the single pair of crowd in the public option from an untenable either I mean yeah. Look, I think it's it's a pretty compelling argument in the middle of a pen
am I to say hey? Maybe it's a bad idea to have your health care coverage tied to your employment? I think that that was a good argument before it's better argument
But let's let you say, ok Biden does come out in favour of better care for out tomorrow. I think people need to recognise that the challenge will then be convincing, a bunch of Democrats in the Senate because he would have to make calls to people like Jean Jean Doug Jones
Gary Peters, were incumbents as well as challengers, like mortality in Kehl Cunningham North Carolina, who have, I think, come out for more modern positions. More, let's expand on the Asia. Let's include a public option, I'm nothing's impossible. I'm not saying you should try, but I think your question is about that political dynamic in what is possible right now, and those would be the next step so would have to come after Biden announcing his support for a bigger, more expansive plan. Yeah. I think one of the consequences of the primary debate was that it sort of reduced to public
option versus Medicare for all. In all the different public action plans were treated the same when they were not and people judges. Public action plan was far more robust than Joe Biden and
the planet, calmly Harris and better work embraced was
even more robust, then the people just plan or the Joe Biden Plan, and you know that the question with the public option is and unlike served, the hope of some of the more progressive proponents of a public action is canny public option eventually crushed the private insurance system on its own is more and more people join the public action because they think it's more efficient than its lower cream
that covers more people and so eventually sort of insurance companies to serve, go away and die out on their own and their sort of different levers to pull in different ways to make it a more political choice, and I do think, as binding and the unity taskforce which has left Sanders people on it is considering this. I think that there is a lot of room for him to sort of lean towards some of the more robust public action plans that we saw in the primary, as opposed to the one that she ran out so ugly balance. If you are for Medicare for all the more people we get into the public system, the easier that kind of transition will be an alarm gan right now is, I think, a political moment where two Tommy's point about how poorly about undoing Obamacare right now must pull making sure in this emergency that every single
American has access to something like Medicare Medicaid, I think, is another issue. You will see incredibly broad popular sport, or will we combat? I will talk to buy an adviser run claim.
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good, that's n, o o am dot com, slash cricket and Paragraph Keith reporter at the New Yorker magazine a my new podcast. We
of change. Investigator. Rumour I haven't been able to shake since I first heard it years ago it came from
one inside the CIA and the story was that the agency had written one of the best selling rock songs of all time
a song that change the world, so that was the Tipp started.
On this story and it only got crazier from their listen to
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I am now joined by the man who led the Obama response to the able outbreak he's a current adviser to Joe Biden campaign. One of the smartest people have worked with in politics. Ron claim. Welcome back to the pot
John thanks for how we always a pleasure to be here.
Or the pandemic, how bad as the situation right now and more specifically, how does it compared to what we want
you're in March and April, in what ways are worse off and are there any ways were better off, so
were saying about the same number of daily cases that we were seeing at the that the earlier peak in March and April
about forty thousand new cases a day, and you know that continues to rise,
So while we may indeed hit new records for the numbers of cases, we are
off in two respects. First, other rate of death is down that's in part because
murder. That more and more the cases among younger people who can get quite
but are less likely to die from the virus and because, as with all epidemics, are medical, our medical capacity intelligence behind a treat the disease.
Prove necessary new medicines extensively. What not budge slimmer sophistication around how to deal with people with these breathing problems so
other, some improvement in the way in which the disease plays out
We do a younger age for war lords.
ITALY rate. But you know we are seeing record numbers of cases, let's still going up
I think I've were starting to see it obviously more in places that didn't really have it. The first time around the south and in the South West in those places, were saying the capacity in healthcare system really strange to and brass beyond the breaking point, particularly in Texas,
right now, also in Arizona. So you don't. We have some very rough times ahead. There's no question about so if by
a miracle you.
And a competent team of public health professionals were suddenly put in charge of the current affairs response right now. What are the sort of initial set of steps? You would take to start getting this back under control or gander control for the first time began to oversee, while there's things the government needs dealers things, the public needs to know the government side. We need to really task extensively on presidential talks about how much
wrapped up testing, but we saw lines hours and hours long in Texas this weekend.
People waiting, literally all day to be tested and people getting close to each other crocs, exposing each other while being tested. We still don't have testing where it needs to be the President promise on March. Sixth, anyone wants a test get one. That's just not true cuz. We need to fix that. We then need to match it with contact tracing. That is once we find out. Who has the virus
to identify who they ve been in contact with isolate those people. There is literally zero federal contact racing programme. None none
and some states are doing better than others. We need a national programme on that.
We didn't really re about the work on therapeutic and vaccines, and the others in the companies do was really make sure we're getting protective geared to the people who need it. We still have to grow these frontline hospitals, doctors
persons using reusing gear using unsafe here and, as were sunny people back to work. We are really setting the back to work with masks and gloves in the things that they really need to be safe. So that's what the government needs do, but what are we need to do? All of us need to wear masks, Winwin public. We need to practise social distancing and, of course, we need to watch it.
It's quite frequently enough. I think that we had kind of a failure on both sides and coupled with the fact that trunk announced a plan for reopening the economy in April and then assume denounced it basically tweeted out that no one should pay attention to his plan and we wish you spoke-
Willy nilly, so we have states making their own decisions about when the reopen on different standard six
in following their own standards, states having then to reverse themselves in Reclose its complete chaos out there in terms of the things in a car with their open the things that are closed and how those things are operating when they are open, there's just simply no consistent guidelines, no help for people,
the figure this out and in the end, Johnny comes down to a lot of small businesses that are being asked to figure out if they should be opened and closed figure out what they should be doing to protect. The workers are barely able to make the people if they can in their us was then
put a black sea last barriers, maybe or maybe not disposed to give people loves mass whatever just a lot of confusion, a lack of help, a lack of direction from Washington. That's really crushing fattening
our response, so I'm sitting here LOS Angeles, where we
have been under a shelter and place order since March. Twenty fourth
reversal masking order since may fourteenth
Today. Our public health director said that you know a sharp increase in cases of hospitalizations here could overwhelm our healthcare system. Do you think
murder, Seti Governor Newsome, moved too quickly to reopen things here and what
Tell us what are the challenges where
using even in a state like hell, a formula tell us more broadly about sort of the challenge of controlling this pandemic. Even when you do things like require masks yet so I think John said, since the start of this is really before the start of this back in March, I said, but biggest concern was that we were going into. This was like an article
A confederation response to global threat of the travel administration basely made a decision that each state was going,
on its own, without vice president pencil weaken on Sunday
selling this as the beauties of federalism. You can't have a state by state response to this. This is interconnected country. People move from state to state aid.
From state to state, and you create pressures on states to open if the rules are different in different states, there's no consistent standards or what not. Yet we see the spectacle here of in March Florida, putting limits on people from New York travelling to Florida and in June, the artfully limits on people from Florida travelling to New York, with that, let's just now
The way we can handle this is a country you, governor use, I think, has done a very good job. Other governors Democrats Republicans and deliver a good job, but this is a bible threat that came from overseas. The threatens our entire country that needs a national response and asking each state to do on its own will never.
Ever succeed. What's up the campaign so
cipher, and I have talked a lot about whether Joe, by
should primarily framed this race as a referendum on Donald Trump or
many issues are of lean into the idea that this is a choice between two visions for the future, even though that also how Trump wants to frame the rights that are most companies want to frame the race. What do you think about that about how to serve framed this race and how budget will not? I think, whenever you haven't incumbent president, the first choice, the voters makers, whether or not they want to retain the common here,
got the job. If he's doing a good job, voters will almost always decide to keep it, as we see seen our history. If they decide that he's not doing a good job, then the question becomes well with the other. Guy do a better job, and I think that's what the second part of this is about. So I think there is no getting around the fact that one level it is a referendum on chop people decide about its performance
bout. What he's doing? I think that the voters have by and large made a decision. The trumps done, a lousy job, it's understandable. They made that decision. He hasn't lousy job a code
being an example of, but not the only example of it and by then. I think that phrase that shifts the dialogue into a different kind of conversation. If we don't want tromp, do we think this binding? I could do better. Why was it you can do better? How can I fix the problems, and so I think it's incumbent on us as a binding it made to lay out what he would do differently than Trump Howard handle covert differently, the trump. How we would I handle this economic recovery, we're gonna have to get into differently trump.
How he would handle the racial division and challenge of racism. We face differently trop, so I think it's. I think it's kind of a two step process were during the additive step one, and then we have to do our part on stuff to do so,
by one the primary without embracing some of the farther left policy
he's the Bernier warranted without paying too much attention to twitter or certain podcast,
He said that people weren't looking for a revolution since then
We ve been hereby once in a century pandemic, recession, racial reckoning, all of which have fallen heartless younger Americans, Black Americans Brown Americans to what next.
Do you think the monumental events of twenty twenty have changed or reshaped, binds thinking about what the country requires at this moment in time, and do you think that will be reflected in his agenda? Well, I think it is reflected in his agenda, John, that is, without speaking, ill of any democratic opponents who I'll love and we worked with
We continue to work with you and your mind entered this race in the summer in the spring of twenty nineteen, and he said the races about a battle for the soul of America.
And at the time I don't wanna be were sceptical about that.
I've heard and talk about how he was sceptical about that at the time, and I think the framing that framing has proven to be incredibly fresher and ass. We are right now we
I understand, I think, understand better than we did want your by not into the ways that we are in a fight for the soul of America, of what this country stands for, what this country believes, and so I think fast the fundamental frame is put on the reason I think it's where applicable than ever. Obviously, some of the policy answers continue to evolve have to involve other vice president announced last month that he will be putting forward before the convention a jobs plan to explain how
we're gonna get back a lot of the jobs. A doll trump has lost properly, has no plans to get those jumped back other than running around in yelling that everything should open, hurly burly with no real plan for that, and so of course we have a covert plan that wasn't part of the launch of the campaign. Before the outbreak happen, we have innovations on their planned device. Prisoners made it continued to make and we're going to have a jobs plan. We create a lot of the jobs, have been lost because of trumps mishandling of the economy. So bottom line is, I think, the frame he entered. The sting on turns out to be incredibly spot on, for what we need is a country now, and I think he has policy
There's that addressed a lot of that will continue to lay out more policy answers. As the campaign for rests. Do you mean I was sort of happy to hear him? He was, I think, I'm on his part ass.
I was talking to Indoor Yang, and he said I think some of our institutions need revolutionary change
and I was just wondering only talking about you cited in the last twelve months about how this economic crisis we have taken. The blinders often do you think sort of his thinking has checked, has shifted at all, just because it sort of the monumental events, even though he did have that frame about a battle for the sole venetian right from the beginning. Not, I think that the programme
the nature of the vice president's agenda was always under appreciated during the primaries in part, because it was often compared, understandably behind
The policy proposals, the Senator Sanderson, worn others- were putting forward, but look, let's take one issue of particular importance to younger butter should be to others, but just find Shake Joe Biden in June of twenty nineteen set forth a climate change plan that would have been the boldest
lack of any candidate for president ever over, some of the other candidates were running this time. So I think that the half hour
he was leaning on a plan was somewhat under appreciated when compared to other plants, but obviously it was a hell of a lot bolder
and bigger and more revolutionary than anything we were
on your arm administration, for example,
and so I think that it is not a question of slew him now deciding to do revolutionary things of all the things. I think it's hopefully a question of there being more focus
on how progressive and how far reaching a lot of his ideas have always been will continue to be so there's plenty of public and private.
Pulling out there, that shows Biden leading Trump
in the horse rays and on almost every single issue, an attribute
exception of who letters trust to manage the economy in the recovery. Would you things going on there
and and and and would you think, Biden does or does it mean to do about that? Wasn't there are companies going on there Jonathan first of all, I think, there's a little bit with time lag and how voters process,
These events were going through. You will remember that back in March and April motors were still giving Trump recently Highmark's for the Covid nineteen Ponce, and I and others, and that you guys argued that that was going to change as voters appreciated just how much Trump had
stand up and how serious problem we have as it were signal over than on the economy. Right now, I think voters still
trying to process is this economic setback really is a temporary or permanent. How quickly will balance back because the present promised them does recovery will be like a rocket ship. That's what he said last month that the jobs come back soon, that everything reopen all be okay, and so I think this has to sort out a bit terms of what people are gonna see, and sadly, ethical people can see is that the economy has taken yet a big hit because of trumps mismanagement of the virus that he is going to have a long overhang on second me and simply running around in yellow in its time
things to open up is not a plan to solve that. So I think that's one thing I think the second thing is, I think, a vice President Biden needs to what he has said, as is at its head is going to come in
lay out a programme to create more jobs, to feel some of the gaps that tromp has left. So I think it's both jiving voters have to gain a sharp
radiation for just how serious economic calamity we are experiencing and how is it just temporary, not trust, trying to sell this is lives. There was like a bad loser in everything shut down for a couple days.
We're going to wake up one day and the snow will be gone and everything will reopen. That's not what this is. We have taken permanent damage to the economy because of Trump's mishandling of the virus. I think that's. The first thing that has to
solely with hers. Second, because they need know Joe Biden Gonna plan to fix it. He does to be explained that plan over there
weeks, and I got a of help. I close that gap on that issue. So it is,
God willing Joe Biden Wines, and he any steps into that oval office. He will step into a situation that is worse than we did when Obama took off
back in a name which I do not think was possible and it lets say he has a democratic Senate. What's it reflect the senator
Well, he's not gonna have sixty democratic senators like we did briefly in the Obama administration
He still gonna have Mitch Mcconnell they're trying to block every piece his agenda. I was
pleasantly surprised me all day to see Chris Cooings of them
Where about people,
About how maybe it's time for the filibuster to go? If Mitch, Mcconnell is sitting there blocking every single piece of legislation that a president binds trying to pass to rescue the economy, I noticed a bunch of the democratic Senate candidates now shared
You as well. Do you think that's a view that Joe Biden could come round up. Well, let's see, let's see what happens to be a long way to go before we get there. We're gonna win the Superbowl
see we're things liars? That's it I'd look. I think. I think what we need to do is willing to focus right now.
I wish the election.
A white house wetting, the half came out of the house, is growing,
majority there will damage
leave aside. I know that our focus
and I was explaining what he would do as president that, so
I'm gonna, take it as a maybe rob militated, maybe get himself here. You can take that is, as it were, not a market again in a month, institutional reforms right now. Ok,
Sometimes even a number of speeches now in everyone's keep saying-
Please you hide now in the basement. He's not he's out very speak in all the time. He's easy. You was in Philadelphia than tat of any of the other day. Given a speech
Even cable networks, like MSNBC Cnn, are or are not covering some of these speeches. How's the campaign get your vines message in front of voters. If the media refuses to cover his speeches like they do trumps,
you guys have to rely solely on paid media, their ways to get creative or with the five process closer. I think that what we are trying to put pressure on the cable networks to carry his remarks as they carry troms with having some increasing success without I feel a little bit about where we are now, though, we were a few weeks ago, Ross
talking about alternative means of distributing those remarks? For example, he gave an economic speech a few weeks ago that now this a broadcast nationally and strained nationally, and I think that helps get his remarks out. We are really robust digital programme to get our stuff out the social media platforms and our own platforms and distributors widely as we can, we can use all the tools, a modern communicating to get our message out and ass were determined to do. I hoped wish expect that the mainstream media would give by the same coverage that give trump above
Don't we're gonna, get our message out there and with every tool and means, and our pod save America always an option, always an outrage on one.
Question about debates. Since you have expertly run debate pepper Joe Biden, Brok bombing Hillary Clinton, a number of other Democrats to the ears, the trunk
Well, now seem to want more debates with Joe Biden
I'm thinking that somehow the comparison bullet good for them. What did you learn about debating Trump from helping Hilary prep, and do you think you guys will even be able to reach an agreement with the trunk campaign on a number of debates, moderators, etc? Was to take the second question? First, the binding campaign has made it clear that they are going to participate
and the debate sponsored by the Presidential Debate Commission at three debates with moderators chosen by the neutral commission formats chose my than usual commission dates in places chosen by the neutral permission.
That's what every democratic nominee and republican nominee for president has done since one thousand nine hundred and ninety two Joe Biden's going to do the same thing.
Don't worry. I'm not really sure what his position is here spokespeople say he once more debates,
but when he was interviewed on Sean Handy last week, he said he
sure he wanted a debate at all. They still have accepted the debate commission proposal. They say they want to pick them up,
Raiders with some of the moderators. They say they want to change the dates so the
how do we know for sure is a Joe Biden is going to show up on the dates at the places with the monitors with the format. That's a debate commission has set forth. I will see if Donald Trump shows up
I expect that we will look in terms of debating trump himself. We know what the challenges are. The man wise men lies from them.
The opening guy goes off to the very last second at the very last debate, and I think the challenge for his opponent is the balance calling out those lies with getting his were point. Sixteen case, her points across the gas one challenge in dealing with tramp tramp also interrupts rudely ruthlessly does everything he can to knock his opponent off his game. I think twenty twenty will be different, debased and twenty sixteen setting one advantage Trop had in the debates in twenty.
Seen as a candidate in twenty. Sixteen was a kind of had it both ways. He kind of would do his base storing outrageous statements and then a casual kind of wink way
that is a reasonable guy he's a kind of business man he's asked can cause, I establishments figure so and so forth. It was able, I kind of appeal to some people in the suburbs, disaffected people, the suburbs, along with his basin, and had a deliberate, both ways, and in this I don't think that's gonna be possible and twenty twenty. He has a record now he has a record of failure. He has
failing to deliver on the things he said he would do in twenty. Sixteen, you can stand there, twenty sixty and say I will give you a big, beautiful healthcare plan with a hundred days. If you like me
I will give you a truly no infrastructure plan within a hundred days. If you like me, I will fix them
so I will do this all the way he's had for years. It has done exactly none of those things, so I think he's an encumbered now and he has a record now. I think I'll be harder for him, the kind of hide and dock in weave the way he did and twenty sixteen he will be a form of the big stage he always is, but now I think job. I will also do very well do well in those days
I remember back in twenty twelve, when you know we had a rough first debate for President Obama,
and your mind understating it perhaps and Joe mine. I was up for the second round and you have against Paul Ryan many people thought was like them.
Rising genius of the Republican Party. He was gonna save the day in power,
was this amazing star job? I went in there and held his arm and more so in that debate with Paul right. So I think you'll do quite well. It gets Donald Trump. I think we have very good said it debates. It gets Donald Trump.
No we're. Looking for you, I've been thinking lately about the advice you gave to Obama before that first debate, which was you said, you always had the bigger you are the harder he falls about Roma. Now it turns out the because a varies.
The specific circumstances that you know about my ended up being too,
slow when he needed to like hit harder, which he ended up doing the second debate, but I was thinking that that seems like really great advice for
binding in this moment against Donald Trump, because does seem like you, and you always say this to you. I can't fight the last battle. Twenty twenty is different than twenty sixteen, but the fact that we have pandemic raging and economic recession, recession, racial reckoning, Donald Trump, go in there and trying to do his thing where he comes up with nicknames for Joe Biden and takes all these shots. Talks about a sign tat does all this. It's gonna seem really small does feel like
if Joe Biden sort of keeps it up here at like thirty thousand feet about what people actually care about. He'll do better, but I don't know what you're thinking is on what I think you're, not trumped Ex wife said you abide your mind, will defend himself will take some shouted down trauma. I know what I want to think. We're gonna go into this debate. Kind of just be a punching agro. Electronic get away was not the case. I do you think you're see playing out in public right now, major point, John
is that we have thousands of Americans dying every week from covered. We have millions of Americans who don't have a job, we're losing Americans to covet at the same rate now that we were losing people in world war. Two we have a crisis of race
yeah, and you see Trump going out there every day in with these ridiculous tweets and
with a singular agenda. Protecting confederate statues
He just seems like he is not up to this challenge, not up to this moment. He is he's going to trying to distract and focus and- and I think maybe maybe we'll be able to get away with that earlier in the presidency. When these crises were
his door step and the fact that he was filling the news with his nonsense. I you know, I think I got him attention. At least and the cost of that wasn't clear, I think the cost of the fact that this man, constantly ones too distracting divide we were dealing with really serious crises in the country, is the fundamental thing that has broken his position with the public right now, and I think if we can replicate tat in the debates, I think down from present a really really stunning contrast I made at the last thing I'll Sanders is, I think it's some ways: moments of crisis,
sharpen contrasts, know in two thousand and four Al Gore Times relatively good people worldwide? Why should our Lord George Bush anyway, you now on those other big difference so and so forth.
And to some extent you a little bit of that going around twenty sixty little, but I don't think there's any went out there today who says I dont know the difference between when it binding presence in the trunk presidency would be. I dont know the difference between these two people. I don't want the difference between their agendas. None of the difference between their characterising the crises were faced.
Now have made all those differences very very sharply and in some ways the critical moment of this debate will be when they both stand
stage side by side in voters are presented with that choice with that contracts. That is so power.
In this moment, based on what they ask? What reason, what they both said and done to this moment before even the first word comes out of their mouths. That night, I heard you tell cloth on his pack. Has that one thing that has stuck in your mind since the twenty sixteen debates is no Hillary Clinton and each one of those debates scored way more points than Donald Trump one. Those debates, if you look at the polls following those debates, but that he was able to get something out of those debates too, by calling her a crook having one message that she was a crook and just driving that over and over and over again, obviously Tom Trump has been
having a pre difficult time, trying to figure out what his critique of Joe Biden actually is. Is that something you guys are worrying about planning for when it comes to their bay? For how do you think about making sure that he doesn't get something like that? Out of these debates, like you didn't want sixty? Well, I think that you are simply trying to figure out what trampled over the debates promise. You talk about what will do in the debates, and you know what I think that he was able to bring this attack on Clayton, very unfair, tackling with repetition and with you just a a relentless pursuit of this unfair attack on her. But I again, I think that the times were different and he was not in incumbent and he was a much harder charge
Yet when then he will be now in terms of having a record and as being in a crisis point in the country itself. Now, we'll let the debates are play on amongst innocuous, adhering to explain our entire to be tragic
nurses have to leave.
For the poster opposed to bait episode upon safe, then I told her, but look I think I have but a bright eyed again. I think that this contrast between the two of them how they handle these crises. The respective character
I think that really shines join. I also think that
without an all undress than Donald Trump. You know a lot of the stick, his kind of worn thin at this point in time and a lot of the
yeah. You use the same stories over and over again, there were stolen the snake and the whole thing, and not I just,
I just I don't know that he can. I be the challenge really isn't. What does your mind do in some respects? Its does. Donald Trump really have anything dough,
How do I make stage? That's that's new were not just a repetition of all the old stuff. We also say right
I'm glad you're right, you're running the show there. That makes me feel better paid you some.
For coming on and given us the time and please come back
Thanks for having used always
thanks around for joining us today, and we will talk to you guys,
pod save America is a product of cricket media. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our system producer is Jordan, Waller, its mixed in edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle segment is our sound engineer thanks to tiniest
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Transcript generated on 2020-06-29.