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Well, replied: save America, I'm John Fabric, Anja another untimely. These were on today Show Joe Biden. Approval takes a hit among some Democrats law. Professor Melissa Murray is back to talk about whether the Supreme Court is right wing, as we thought and Senator Bernie Sanders is here to talk to Tommy latest negotiations in Congress over voting rights infrastructure and more before That's some news. The first episode of Edith is out we parted with.

friends, a cue code to produce a new scripted comedy starring, Razumihin Pike that explores the untold true story of american secret. First female President Edith Wilson, the first lady to Woodrow Wilson, new episodes of Edith released every Thursday follow on Spotify Apple I cast or wherever you get your podcast, exciting guys everybody check out Edith, it's very good, where I guys I laughed to it right now. I left hard on the way to the in the morning where we don't have any icy guys so I'm living in Asia artist, I'm it ain't away from that of MR ok, they're. No, thank you also for this week. Love it or leave it presents out of the closet into the streets alive, pride extravaganza filled with games, comedy sets and, of course, Gay NEWS, Tell us all about it. We have any edible line up. It is on.

Thursday at four o clock, Pacific, seven o clock eastern- you can watch it lie. That will also be lovely that that Saturday, but were really excited about it. We have an incredible lineup of gas and raising money for the Trans Justice Funding project which puts money into local organisations across the country fighting for Trans people led by Trans people. So we're very system very excited about this vat. We have, I believe, mine up, will be announced soon. It is amazing, so check it out. I, let's get to the news. Joe Biden comes home from Europe this week to a republican party. That's trying to kill most of his legislative agenda in Aceh a gang of moderate Democrats. We can't see that or won't stop it. There is no evidence that Washington's bipartisan clusterfuck is starting to take a toll on everyone involved. After about five months of the year

didn't enjoying an incredibly steady average approval rating of between fifty three and fifty four percent. Five. Thirty eight outcome has buttons average approval at fifty one point: eight percent, a tick down, but still the lowest of his presidency. The New Monmouth Pole came out last week has binds approval at forty eight percent, a six point decreased from April, but a father, it's being driven largely by Democrats, the percentage of whom we set the country is on the wrong track. Also rose by twenty points to nearly one in three for Congress is even worse. Just thirty, two percent of Democrats approved down from sixty three percent in April. I should say that the approval ratings for Biden in Congress had taken a hit with independent as well loved. What do you think is causing this slight, but real dip think he's here he were losing at that. that New Biden smell of it I mean there's a moment. Look there's a moment when it does that, can you describe what that smells better? Not that's not.

Now there is a moment we like where your new car, because your car and it's like the first time. You grind the hubcaps against a curb. You know. You're doing this are like when it's just now it just your car when they think is interesting. It's like That one of the reasons binds are proliferating has been so steady is actually that he didn't get the kind of honeymoon with Republicans that normal president's have gone. The passing the Brok Obama got just a decade ago and I think the the The the result of that is actually we were having a different conversation about about, present, bind the programme have I coming down to earth, but for the fact that you know Miss info asian propaganda means that his numbers paid like attacks from the beginning and actually have a bunch of Republicans of kind of picked up their support because he's the monster. The income parents wander demented monster that he was painted to be controlled by like a marionette by by vice president com. Ass. That said, I think, going from weeks of Joe Biden,

a role he's addressing the pandemic in passing big bills to headlines, like is Joe islands agenda stalled for good, don't help your proliferating amongst the people who support. You will tell me. The same poll shows that binds policies are still as popular as ever. Sixty percent support the american rescue plan. Sixty eight percent support the american jobs plan in sixty one percent support the american families plain What do you make a gap between buttons popularity now in the popularity of his plan, I mean: isn't it that everyone hates the kid who just got back from their Europe brought in Europe, unlike pronounces Barcelona with the th, and by could that could be part of it. I think there's a a few pieces of this right. Work won't stop. Talking about all is new friends that he may we gave. You must pursue dough. Ok, wait! Wait I'll wearily go crazy with your pal. I mean there's a couple piece of Israeli. You said that the binding approval dropped, congressional approval dropped and then the right track wrong track numbers also dropped, stood,

that suggests frustration among Democrats based on feeling like. Maybe this is the agendas bogged down and Chris, like the sum of the headlines, lava talked about, and then I think, there's other concern. that our, like your concerns about inflation, that I think are making people feel a little more anxious about the economy, a little more anxious about how we're gonna exit this covert period. Measures have then keep an eye on. I mean in terms of that gap. I think a lot of it like love. It was saying that the gap, a lot of and the fact that republican voters don't just dislike Joe Biden. They intensely dislike him. I think six out of ten republican voters have a strong disapproval of Biden. I think that's not Joe Biden fought right that that tub a lot about the damage that was done by me in months and months of lies that clean Joe Biden soldier action in so that, ultimately, it easier for a voter too. Like an idea from a politician, they dont like there was some trump ideas I liked but like in this case its some vanilla stuff like roads and bridges.

But again you know like that. You also prowler seeing some of a delta here, because there is high approval from Democrats. for the policy ideas and then maybe a little bit of frustration about the effort to pay. General or what they perceive as a lack of effort to pass it. So that's the way I was square that circle yeah. I think that's. It should not get done we had at the beginning of the term we have. He passes. The american rescue plan is the next Sdr right when you put them about Rushmore we're talking about those transformative presidency which, as you know, probably a bit of an over exaggeration just a bit, because the media tends to do that sometimes and now, Let's have you seen all these headlines about installed agenda and, if you're, someone who thinks the plans or great but dont see them getting past, and all you hear every fuckin weak,

is Joe Mansion, says no installed in Congress, and it's not like you're gonna get frustrated. You're gonna make love it. You think Democrats are right to feel disappointed and frustrated. So far you have been, of course, will? Yes, I dont. Where they direct. That, I think is, is more at issue. I don't I don't even like all, but the most committed waters of politics are not as familiar with like the vagaries of the Senate, the filibuster, the fact that your mansion Kyrgyzstan Cinema, putting up hurdles that why is there a bipartisan infrastructure bill versus the better bill? What is the status I think that all ends up sounding a bit like noise and nothing changing. So I think, like that frustration is valid. I think the question is: is it right to pointed at Joe Biden? They think like, of course in part, I think not in. I think it right to point that acterrally, a Joe Biden, of course not is there a criticism? Is if it works

warring, like the criticism mounted, sometimes by the left of like Joe Biden Strategy, to get something done with these things done like, of course, that's what we talk about this. We should be talking about, but overall, being frustrated at the fact that, like we can't get some of these big items through a democratic senator with a democratic house in a democratic presidency like yeah, that's really fun frustrating tell you: what can Joe Biden actually do you like? What would what would you it just if you're in the way I mean a couple thing so like there's, some tactical stuff, I did notice of the Democratic Party has been running a lot of paid Digital adds about these bills. About some of these accomplishment, I think I saw that in the last couple months. The Ds Cc has spent like one points seven million dollars on Google adsense Facebook as to promote the american jobs plan, so I think that's good important because as love it like I'm there's a lot of democratic vote. Those who are listening to pod, save America and Watch MSNBC in pissed off about the filibuster Ababa. Then there's just like most of the country that is going. side for the first time him and going

movies and not wearing a mask and just like living their lives, and I think the way reach a lot of people who do not pay as much attention is through paid ads halted. The Biden team will end up pushing mansion and others a little harder behind the scenes to acknowledge some of the urgency we're seeing especially around issues like voting rights. I hope I also found Some wedge issues that we can talk about that makes a debate more uncomfortable, Four Republicans, and it's not somehow just about Biden like I'm guessing. like Biden, doesn't want to dig into this hard or go after republics. Hard right now and give Mcconnell or others a pretext for blowing up bipartisan talks, but the fact that Republicans refuse to raise taxes on rich people or corporations, but want to raise the gas tax on every and in the country seems like a political gift to me, and I would like to hear more way.

Is that they are going to elevate that contrast and drive at home in the home stretch of those few things there. That's all right, I wonder how much of the mansion pushing you haven't behind the scenes and how much should start happening a little bit more publicly, and I know you have to be careful this, because every time you say anything about your mention of german debate even says the words Joe mention its treated in the press as a job, Tom you autonomy loves especially, but like I do, but we work, it is a tough one right. We were all in the White House when the about Obama bomb Obama.

sleep? Why won't Obama lead and, like you know, then I talked about green lantern theory and there's this idea that the president can like magically bend the entire city of Washington to his will. But I do wonder like how much I kind of thing the Joe Biden so far has been like a manager and needs to be more like a fighter right like they talk about him like he's managing the pandemic. Well, he's managing the economy. Well, he's got his back and I think a little more fight on behalf of the middle class like you're, saying to Tommy on by saying, like we need to tax the wealthy, we need to help five requirements of a fight for people in this country like a little more fighting spirit. A little less managing through public remarks. I don't know that's going to change your his mine. I think we should be very clear on that, but I think he might as well try to fight, because, at the end of the day, you're gonna own the success or failure, despite whether its dimensions faltered. Yet me

Neither reality is like this is a like, be exact. On the dial of Joe Biden approval rating in June of of a twenty twenty one is like incidental, like we are talking about passing a trillion dollar infrastructure package. There is talk of potentially following that with a much bigger, partisan kind of bill that does a bunch of different pieces of the infrastructure plan of the family plan, and I think, if we are talking about like what Joe Biden has to do to be a successful president like the message takes about, He too, whether or not he succeeds in passing those two things like that is that that is the question and I don't feel like we like me. No no message can fix if the event, if these either the bipartisan infrastructure deal, or the larger reconciliation bill don't pass off. The fourth people over the past no messaging is gonna fix that

I like Joe Biden, Joe Biden, is an incredibly consistent messenger. His appropriating was higher when he was showing incredible contrast to the failed to condemn management that came before a man passing a giant piece of legislation You don't think that that really helps. That is his message, so anything like so and so, basically like a lot of this comes down to what will move Joe Mansion and kissed and cinema A few other moderates to making that agenda pass and, like we just honest, Sometimes we do not fully understand the conversations are taken behind the scenes like what the tenor is, what the what the actual the actual prosperous yeah I mean what these numbers, I think like for the real act like do. I think that a bunch of Democrats are going to decide their so disappointed that they ve over Donald Trump again or Tom Cotonou, wherever they put up now. But I do think like this kind of reduce enthusiasm, is something that we should be mindful of unconcerned about, as we go into mid terms, which are usually entirely about getting your base out. I do think like look I'd like

Molly grew with. Their theory of the case are like we gotta do good job. We gotta get the pandemic behind us. We gotta fixy economy, but I think, like we have also seen some warnings about you thinking. That's a panacea. Economic indicators are increasingly partisan, trumps president Republicans or psyched about the economy. Democrats president, their bombed outright its its increasingly difficult to reach voters to tell them what you actually did Fox His watchers are only gonna hear about like critical race theory or the cultural grievances. Today, sporadic voters are going. the news at all. They re Facebook and then last we like to think that we really can serve me. The most is that the best economy, the best I can ratings in the world are gonna struggled overcome super gerrymander map or like harsh voter suppression, laws or worse get like US state legislature, that just decides they're going to change the results of an election they dont like. So like the that's why this push on voting rights,

is maybe the most important thing he does because, like that, it's just looming in the background is something that should freak all this out. I agree and I think you know if I was in, though in the White House advising him like. I think he should be out there even more on voting rights right like it, if tumors gonna put it put up for the people act either the dimension version or the original version, or both Tuesday and like Joe Biden, should be out there and he should be fighting for this. Balance should be fighting for this compromise at you know. There's there's reports that the White House is going to embrace the mansion compromise. That's fine! But if you get all fifty cent Democrats and most of the House on board with this mansion compromising Joe Biden,

is supportive to than go fuck go out there and fight for that and fight for it hard and it might not. It's so might make a difference. You might not convinced these Democrats to break the filibuster like mentioned in cinema, but you gotta go down swinging on this one. I agree Samuel and there are some economic indicators that are still mixed right, so the binding people would say. Probably it's too early right, like we're. Gonna can take some time for the economy to get back to full strength, to going to take some time still for more people to give acts aid with bent em to fully go away once that happens, though, people will feel the results of that and they will support your Biden based on that feelings. But I agree with you taught me that you know, because we are in such a polarized environment. I do not know if simply improving people's lives and having them feel that improvement is enough to get you know, get Democrats over the finish line.

One other thing, though, that the em, if you like the Biden team, has been like really kind of good about, especially like that on. Unlike serve economic indicators, generators I pay this summer's. Then we really fucking we're right and everybody just needs to chill out like immediately in job numbers like the consumer You know consumer behaviour like we're all. Oh we're all fucked up, we're all having in a new way like coming out of a pandemic for the first time in a hundred years, and like some of this is like I imagine, Can it be reflected in just pulling that work? How can it be able to totally trust her understand for a little bit of time like we gotta go? where is it is an odd moment is alive, is on noise. Also, God knows organ be talking about as we go into the new terms or the real act that could be the economy could be. China could be. Terrorism could be like critical race theory for pets like who the fuck knows what why, but that Fox NEWS is gonna drive, and

force us to talk about for the next couple years. So you know I've been in there that voters that article in the new Yorker that I think about every once in a while that Seattle falling into the ocean such as on reminded, have once in a while. You know it's out there. I can read it, but that, but that's why I like it. If you're the by votes of your Democrats, you wanna be going into these mid terms with voters looking at buying and look a Democrat saying, these are the people who are fighting for me and Republicans are not yet right. It's not just like we're gonna give you marks on how you handled the pandemic Nicodemus this like there's gonna, be all these fights, and I want these people on my side. because I think that my son, and so you have to show that we have to show that three messaging and also what you actually get pots America's brought

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cast. What was the Murray Melissa walked back to the pot, thanks for having me back, let's start with California versus Texas, where the court said that a group of republican states did not have the standing to challenge the constitutionality of the affordable, correct, opinion that was written by justice prior enjoy not only by the liberal justices but by Justices Roberts, Thomas Cabinet, and bear it up Melissa. Why do you think these conservative justices signed on and what, if anything, can this ruling tell us about how the court view is the easier ought to be cleared. This was a ruling on procedural grounds at the lid against did not have standing to bring these claims so technically the court did not get into the merits of this case at all. So it's not as, though, that conservative justices, whose and on to quote unquote save the SBA were signing on or endorsing the idea of federal. We subsidize health care in any way, so this whole idea

yeah that the ACA has been saved by this opinion, and by these conservative justices, I think, is a little Miss state a time. It is a narrow procedural decision about who may enter federal court and present what kinds of claims and no it is, kind of decision. I think that the court often deploys using these procedural grounds in order to avoid thorny error or more controversial issues are just think back to twenty thirteen, when we had the first marriage equality case, Perry, verse hollings worth that came before the court. That was also dismissed on standing grounds in part, because I think the court was not ready and twenty thirteen to take up the broader question of whether the right to marry included a right to marry the person of the same sex, and so we pointed they're out there, the court punted there and then, two years later we got the decision in about a foul versus Hodges, where apparently they were ready. Just the Lido issued at a fairly caddy descent.

where he sarcastically referred to this case as the third in an epic trilogy and said no one can fail to be impressed by the lengths to which this court has been willing to go to defend the Asia against all threats. What do you think that was all about? I think you're right. It was a bowl of milk for table to assess very kindly anything the caddy nurse or the start, penises really directed at the chief justice, who you know in very famously, and twenty Twond voted with the liberals to uphold the Asia in the first instance, and then later the majority widened, but the chief justice, again in the majority to uphold the SBA once again and king MRS Berger, while so you'll justice, a leaders. Descent here was notable in that time. The decision written by Justice Briar was a relatively spare and efficient. Sixteen pages and justice leaders dissent is twice that and you he's real, all in his feelings about this on he's very exercise, the more

suitable thing there. I think justice now being very perplexed unperturbed about this. It is not surprising army. I think anyone could have predicted that I think what is less predict oh, is that he got justice gorse edge to join him on this descent and you eat is dissent? That time is sort of broadly, gaining about you, know the purposes of the Asia. What Congress was doing when it zeroed out the individual mandate penalty? All of these things that really are to focus on what was Congress looking at the time they did certain things and Neil Gort such is not the guy who cares about what Congress is trying to do at any particular moment he's the guy. Who cares about what did Congress right on the age and what can some one reading the words that Congress wrote? What do they mean? He is a committed textual less,

but this is a descent that is really more about congresses purposes: congresses motivations, not about what did Congress right, Sollermun Lovett reporters resting Democrats last week, where they regret, arguing last fall. The justice bear it would overturn, therefore, will correct if, given the chance Would you like to issue an apology? Now, obviously not I release your apologies when their earned look: I'm not I'm, not a lawyer or an expert I've, a great asset score like illicit and know that, but it seems to me that, like A lot of this is treating Amy, Coney Barrett and actually the court generally as like magic, eight as a magic, nine ball. I guess, and that, but like tell me if I'm wrong, but she was very explicit about her ideology, she's she's, a radical she's, a radical in a reading of the constitution, but in her writings and in what she said in her hearing she talked. but the ways in which he avoids applying that

in this case they didn't rule on the affordable, correct for all. We know, and I think we would all better- I dont know open Melissa would say about this, but we'd bet that she does believe the affordable care. It is uncertain, but you didn't have to rule on that because didn't get that far because they threw it out on standing. We just about the right to the suit in the first place, Could I reach over here and science, point two ass was it does have a magic gape. All for those of you who is sitting at home. Would you think of magic, nine lock, I got where you I was perplexed at first, then I got where you're going with that. I like that, I like that, so I think We all need to be rum. Mindful of the contacts and watch this occurring, we were cussing, whether or not the Supreme Court would strike down the health carers. are you in the middle of what is the most pronounced global health crisis that We have seen in our lifetime- and I think,

any legal realists would say that most people on the court, even the committee conservatives, would worry about what that look like. I'm would worry about what it would mean for the court going forward. Were they to do that, and so I think it's entirely on not surprising that the court would fight. in this procedure all way to avoid that broader question of whether or not the Asia on the initial mandate continues to be a constitutional or unconstitutional. By dealing with it, in this very narrow jurisdictional way. I dont think that means that Amy Coney bear it it is now in favour of the affordable care. They don't think it makes her a progressive, and I don't think it means much anything at all, except that some majority of the court was unwilling to take up that bigger question, and this seizure all out, and I think often these procedural decisions are out was away to avoid that more thorny question, whether you some questions on phone zoo, whether because with full,

we Pennsylvania, the Supreme Court ruled that the city that Economic Althea City of city availed of it. What I say Pennsylvania answer was not the city, I'm starting again it's back ass, we met it. So tell me more about your l sat score. We were very narrow, making good contact up just joking stoking the the case was all diversity of Pennsylvania. The Supreme Court ruled that the city violated the first amendment when it denied a Catholic Phosphor Agency a contract because they discriminate against married same sex couples where you surprised that this was a unanimous decision and why was Samuel Alito, so pissed about it? Ok fell why to say about this this? the decision again, the unanimity, I think, is a little deceptive and you know I m eager raises the question: why do the liberals on the court sign onto a decision that a basic that basically allows the city of Philadelphia to allow Catholic services

To administer this portion of their foster care system and in doing so, to discriminate against same sex couples? I think the reason, the law, rolls joined. This is because it really narrowly written. They talk specifically about the idea that, because B, city of Philadelphia policies allows for exemptions. That me is that they are necessarily considering religion as part of it, that this is a discrimination against religion but, more importantly, the fact that there are sanctions means that this is not a generally applicable law that is neutral towards religion, which means it takes off the table. The broader question of whether this one thousand nine hundred and ninety decision employment division versus Smith should be overruled because, according to the majority Smith, isn't applicable here, because this law doesn't implicate Smith because it allows for these exceptions and therefore it is not generally applicable or neutral

I think that's the reason why the liberals joined us. It is the least of the two evil assignment, like This could have been a very sweeping decision that overruled employment division versus Smithtown, which is a nineteen nineteen case that basically says you dont get in. it. From generally neutral law or general. You don't get an out for mutual as of general applicability like anti discrimination laws, just because there is some incidental burden on religion on wiping out Smith would basically allow almost any religious entity to claim that a neutral law had an impact on the because it reply them to sort of change their behaviour or to do something that they are there I say that their religion would not allow them to do so. The prospect of overruling Smith was really huge. I think if you look at some of the other cases that have come down this term, not necessarily on the court

regular docket, but on the shadow jacket and the cove it talk at, you can already see the sort of bread crumbs being scattered that no Smith is not long for this world. So to me the surprising thing was they didn't actually overruled Smith on, and I think this is a kind of liberal appeasement like will go along with you on this, we will allow Catholic services to discriminate against same sex couples and foster care. As long as you don't completely abandoned the way that we normally think about free exercise of religion by over ruling Psmith. I think that's why Justice Galicia? just see, Freudians slip. That's why Justice Alito is so exercised here, because I think he

was one of the ones who took up this case for the express purpose of Reorientate free exercise doctrine by overruling Smith, and he says that in this descent, like we have had so many invitations to take this up. So many people find that Smith is incoherent and out of step with current free exercise, free exercise jurisprudence. We need to just correct this and get rid of this. Obviously erroneous decision and the majority said no dice we're not doing that. So I am glad about that, because you know these cases, look, I'm I'm not a legal expert. I watch us like everybody else. I am. I end up being concerned about outcomes that these were cases about discrimination against gay couples is there's the contraception mandate case that happened last year. you brought up Smith Smith- is essentially a decision and was more concerned about free exercise is being used to like justify things that were important to conservatives at the time being things like gay marriage or or drug use- and you know me-

so much of this debate has been along this one partisan alignment. I'm just curious like how you think about this question of where free exercise meets these sort of exemptions and like how progressive legal experts think about this, irrespective of outcomes sail on, I think it's really important. The way that you made about the provenance of all this when Smith is decided, and ninety nineties, and perhaps its useful, fairer listeners to hear a little bit of the background of the case. This wise. Decision and which I native american challenge his intelligibility for employment benefits. In the reason he was an eligible for unemployment benefits was because he was fired for using peo today, which is a hallucinogenic drug, but he argued his use of parity was connected to his religious observance. He was native American. This was part of one of their ceremonies,

and that was the reason why he was using it, and so when he was fired and then made an eligible for the unemployment benefits because of the drug use. You said that was an infringement on his free exercise rights. The court comes in and again this is a native Americans. So this is not a sort of traditional majority religion. I sat the courts. As you know, this is a neutral law that, just as you can't get unemployment benefits if the reason you're fired as because of drug use, is not meant to hobble religion in any way, not meant to stick. to the faithful it. It's just a general law neutral adds a neutral on general applicability and noted liberal antonym scope. You are right, said, noted, liberal, William, H, renquist signs on to it, and you know it's a pretty by partisan composition of the core. Dom Stevens is in their oconnor concurs there. I mean

It's it's not of a liberal decision per SE is just sort of this is how their viewing free exercise at the time. I don't think that free exercise has a particular ideological character, although more recently we have seen it become more muscular under the tutelage of the conservative justice is like a more expansive understanding, a free exercise that serves conservative of ideologies, pray, dont, think it has to be that way. I know, for example, some very progressive Catholics have argued that they should be exempt from criminal laws that prohibit providing aid to migrants crossing the borders because their catholic faith, requires them to help and serve the indigent and those in distress. So you

understand that as a kind of free exercise, accommodation of religious observance by we in the last couple of years, I think have become more traditionally attuned to thinking about re exercises, something that serves Evangel the Gauls conservatives incomes, would have ideologies, but he doesn't have to be that way and I think looking backwards Myths started you can just sort of sea like that. One is a minority religious sacked that is really illegible to our understanding of classical christian or evangelical. Christianity, that has come to embody the free exercise clause today. So those are the two big cases from last week was. I just want to get your take on this lead from last week's New York Times. Analysis of the Supreme Court's latest term it starts it's my item, looked hack, it starts justice, Amy Coney bear its arrival on the Supreme Court, seem to create a conservative juggernaut instead, its liberal way is having a good run. Do you by that,

I think rumours of the death of the conservative Jaeger not have been grossly exaggerated in this particular instance. Some, I think, looking at just the argued cases. You might get the impression that this has been a big win for progressives across the board, but I don't think that's right. These are very, very narrow victories if you want to call them victories that really just sort of stave off a more difficult. The outcome that that for progressive am I dont think these are the sort of full throated, robust factories that people would like to see. More importantly, that analysis that look tat offers doesn't take into account what has been happening on the shadow jacket witches that dog it. Of emergency appeals at the court often takes up without full briefing or oral argument, and now we see a lot of the covert cases. The death penalty, cases on that doc, Adam FDA, versus a cog which is really import

reproductive rights case earlier this year that came upon the shadow docket and those cases have been much much more secure to the conservative end of thing so to say that the court is some Malik, surprisingly liberal or surprisingly progressive, I think, is to really miss the forest for the trees. Do you have to take all of this in concert, and there is a broader pic. Here than just what's been argued, or these narrow decisions that we just gotten and were also not done with the rest of this term. Have you seen any indications that either cabinet or bear it might be less conservative than you expected I dont know that we ve seen a lot from either of them. So you know we had the and suitable age case today, where Justice, Cavanaugh noted basketball fan on wrote, a concur. And in which he invited more case is to challenge whether the unseen double Ays policies, all of their policies, are consistent with antitrust laws which city,

some here. I am not saying that that's liberal or progressive, but it certainly seem SAM activist, if you well sort of the invitation to industries is to bring more litigation before the court, which I think is interesting Justice Barrett. We only had, I think, one or two opinions from her one majority and then the concurrence in Asia K. So I think it's a little too soon to tell em next

term. When we hear that major abortion case on the Mississippi abortion restriction and dived say, I think we'll get a better picture of what the addition of both of these justice says might mean for the court going forward loved to you. Do you think that even the appearance of unexpected moderation serve hurts the movement to reform the Supreme Court, not court? We s course us absolutely like you know if the fact that if, if three liberal justice had ridden like a broadside against a more sweeping decision against gay couples, like I think we'd be having different conversation, I think will be having different conversation ex year. If row is either overturned or extremely limited, like is a long term, is a long term effort to reform the court, but the polluting our securest bout. What was the thought of

This was that, even if there is a little bit of like because the appearance of consensus, these stories about consensus may remove a little, but the wind from the sales like it does seem to me that there still been some value to this kind of pressure from the side and I'm curious if you see some of the effort to kind of by by Robert to create bigger than five. or majorities or six. Three majorities is in some way of reflection of the fear of the pressure on the outside it as a partisan institution, a republican institution. I think, that's, I think, that's decidedly the K Sam, and I don't think it's just the chief justice who worries about this. I think Justice Briar is worried about this as well as creating one way that you could read. These sets of decisions is sort of justice briar making.

on his pointed bad in a week can and should have compromise on the court. We shouldn't be talking about structural reform of the court. Instead, what we should be talking about is really getting the politics out and I think you could take these no unanimous, conservative or unanimous progressive victories as evidence of Justice Briar trying to kid ass, the aisle China work with his colleagues to fashion decision. And where they can all get along by singing again, the broader the majority the narrower the decision ground is? I am again- and I think that suggests there really not as close together as you think there actually quite far apart in terms of they are in some of these issues and in order to have that kind of unanimity or consensus, you really have to decide these cases quite narrowly and no does that support or give fuel, efforts to reform the court. I don't know, but I dont think people talking about this term as a triumph of

of the liberals or the triumph of consensus is going to put much wind in the sales of those who favour a structural reform in an I think, maybe that's the point that we even mean you Lido in one of his many angry arm. Missives talks about how narrow some of these decisions are saying. Basely your avoiding these big questions, yeah but, but speaking of working, the rafts of so many Mcconnell has now said explicitly that he will not fill a Supreme court seat. If he's in the majority in twenty four, he even not committing to do it in twenty twenty three, which means. Basically, we have until the veto. If, if, if there's a chance, we lose the Senate, we have until the end of this congressional term to fill an open sea do you know I obviously do justice. Briar is very concerned about politics and how place inside of the court you know, if he has access to the news Does he know about them up? I think

he dies Sab like I'm pretty sure he knows that he is the subject of much discussion and speculation. I dont know that he carers and I think it just spires and do what justice prior is going to do, but it strikes that the example of Ruth bade her Ginsburg, your sort of trying to hold on on until an election and, ultimately not being able to. You, has got to be a kind of strong caviar to anyone who. Thinks about their position and a certain multi member institution in a particular way and as much as you know, he likes and wants consensus. I can imagine that Justice Briar does not recognise that the political winds are against consensus. If you, Pulls out for much longer, so you I don't know what that means, but surely he must be aware of it. Does seem like on his own terms, but if he is concerned about the

The decision of the court, presumably one thing to avoid, is a rending battle which decides decide. They can't fill it because of partisan divisions. Now I think that's exactly right. I mean at you. I wonder if he's thinking Those Mcconnell comment to make us those comments just made. like this is great like if this gets to the point where it's even close to an election or just like a budding an election. This is going to be a huge partisan cluster whatever, and it's going to be bad and now is really the safe time to do this. I don't even know how safe it as like, who knows like Lena what happens in the Senate and I dont know, but if there was going to be a time to step, down to be assured that a democratic president could nominate your successor like now would be the time, and I can imagine that he doesn't get that yet, and I would be the time to make the process as deep politicized as Paul

if he didn't now especially mean he's gonna. Look at some of the sum of the judges who have just been confirmed and assign have gotten confirmed with pretty lopsided margins racist farmer, Clare Catastrophe, Brown Jack. I wasn t just about to savour read, so don't you burn Jackson gives confirmed with you know a healthy majority, and if he set down Now- and she was Happened- Biden appointed a Supreme Court, you would you would expect at least that the Republicans who just voted for her for the Tutsi Circuit Court of appeal what do the same or it anyway Melissa Mary. Thank you. So much for going back to pod, save America always a pleasure. Every one go check out: strict scrutiny, it's a fantastic podcast and when we come back Senator Bernie Sanders is here to chat with time. Party America

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that invests in your hard infrastructure, roads, bridges, etc. Then it is separate talks by Emma crafts about using the reconciliation process to patch of much larger bill. That includes other critical spending to address climate change, healthcare priorities, etc. Can you give us just a sense of like what the latest is with that reconciliation track? why didn't you gave us a good overview? Tommy, on one hand, you have twenty someone of them Republicans working on a very narrow, our infrastructure proposal, which deals was, but we traditionally all infrastructure. Oh, what we don't know at this point is hardly going to find it they are still debating it. So I can't tell you this: they don't know you sound readily. What we are hearing use might be an increase in the gas that might be of key on electric vehicles. It might be like

a fancy term. I think it sounds to me, like I, infrastructural privatisation, not a new idea, but very bad. I saw them I have with what they are doing is a is trust more even deal with roads and bridges. It's about one quarter of what is and what number two, therefore, he appears to be at this point very regressive and anti working classes, as I think most of your view is now study after study has shown that you got billion, as some of the wealthiest peoples in a given year, ten zero interlink of taxing at large multinational corporations, making huge profits. Zero unfairly confessed lay for their own political reasons. Whenever choose not to deal that they run. Use of these common down. Every working people- obviously not something. I am sympathetic to we on the other hand, are

I'm taking a different look at what we mean infrastructure infrastructure, he's not just roads and bridges, and I can say to you: what's the infrastructure of your programme, what you're snapping my present Monica, That's infrastructure and when I look at infrastructure is one of the foundations that anymore when society needs to run and run well, and When you look at the world that we obviously cannot deal with climate, I mean how irresponsible haven't seen it would be if we didn't deal with climate when the future of the planet is at stake, If you're talking about a lot society, have you not deal with childcare and education and higher education, making sure that we have the best educated workforce,

the world. How do you not deal with housing when you have caused the six hundred thousand people homeless, eighteen million households running fifty percent of their limited incomes for housing, etc? central, so yeah healthcare? Ah you I think it's imperative that we expand medications, recovered dental eye, glasses and and hearing AIDS. We are the only major country and are not paid family medically beside acceptable. I think not so those are some of the issues that I believe can be included in a serious reconciliation them yet I mean everything. You're saying makes little sense to me. I do think just for process. Wiser. Ongoing concern among progressives about whether some of the more moderate Democrats who actually support this following Conciliation Bilby, as I remember well when Joe pension shot a bullet through a cap and trade bill right. So it makes me wonder a bit about as willing tackle close and yes, we want one

just suddenly sugar on but to the best of my knowledge. Leadership, is very, very there, ain't, gonna, be and swore by partisan infrastructure building gets a lot of work unless there is an iron plan. Agreement is to support in very specific ways for long term reconciliation bill. You might ask why, in God's name, you need to build and they have risen I have a new global, but there are so many people while wedded to the idea. They love bi partisanship and some that's the way it is. But to answer your question, it is the best I can understand. We will not accept. I will not accept a small well at the expense and something that's great news I mean I saw some house members have even suggested with holding a vote on the bipartisan bill until there's some agreement on reconciliation. Do you think that's a good idea that necessary also concerns.

sorry not, but what I can tell you is back on planet if you like, but you give him the crises that we face today I say this to me: this is legislation not only deal with roads and bridges, water and child care, pay, family and medical, even expanding, better get home. You know what it is even more significant than all of that is whether we are going to regain the face of the american people in their because, let me tell you, I'm gonna have a vote on that tomorrow. If anybody out there listen all well Biden has done a good job. We got antsy housing. You got

I can say that we don't have to worry. If that's your attitude, man you're dead, dead, wrong, worried, worry, hola, doesn't election coming up in twenty twenty two and twenty one thinks that the Democrats were showing great take control of the house on the site. You are absolutely wrong. What we have got to show is millions of especially working people, black and white, and let you know native American Asian American that in fact government can work for them, not just the billionaire classed. Let me give you an example: Remy next month struggling working class families of this country

are going to get a check or whatever maybe three hundred dollars or so per child and thought of the child tax credit that we passed our you know what that means. You got two kids and families back in forty or fifty thousand dollars. You know what that means to get six hundred dollars a month to help you arrange it everything. It means everything. It means that we're going to take a real out of childhood poverty in America and we got to continue to show working class people. The government can infect stand up for them. whilst campaigning for tremulous yeah? I agree that as well as young guy, he rubbed his voting rights bill, synergies gonna put a vote on the unfairly tomorrow and s one for the people. Act Center mention is sad. He doesn't support the bill in its current form. You think, there's a chance: the centre votes on an amended version that includes the changes that he wants it and, just more broadly, like you, You don't you said democratic. If european attention it s like time to wake up. What do you say to a Democrat

to feel like now we were or tails off too, when those seats in Georgia to give Democrats control the Senate power, people acknowledging the curse and cinema and others not not fighting like hell flawless like this seems so urgent. That's a long, long discussion with. Maybe at another time we can, I do not respond positively to people say we worked out, tells off. I worked my table. If I showed you did we all billions of people do you know about the other side, is working better as well and in many ways even more effectively than outsiders. What we are taking on now is a republican party in and for older people. Please, it's not distance. The old Republican Party saunter Ronald Reagan. It's not a Bush ploy. As a whole. New version of a party which is based, big lie: tromp surely won the election by a landslide

ah that's a home, that there is massive fraud and there They need to corporate election integrity, which really means making millions and millions of people are often people of color, lower, lower income people, young people taking away right about that is what's going not right and if these guys will always be submitted and important so we'll of fighting right now, not just with social policy working families, maybe even more days. We are fighting to be sure that this country, Yeah meteorite in this is a very emotional issue. I have definitely lost my cool when talking about the filibuster or before the people act or or

our mentions. Voting members of Congress accused him of supporting white supremacy. Do a device for people on what the best ways to community. With Joe Mansion or others. Who might be a sticking point. I alighted on Europe's Ireland. Unavoidable can do what they want I don't know well. I had simply tell you from my which point here is enormous pressure, and everyone has been The real answer longer term is not to have only fifty Democrats in the sun we're not dependent on your right now. Anybody, but just mention the most important, is forget. It

So what we need to do is to go. Oh, that's gone, grass roots, political movement which will elect a whole lot more than fifty Democrats, that's kind of wherein yeah sorry, unity is the question of how to pay for this infrastructure bill. I need stepping back a bit. Yet there is a public asset. You also mentioned, but how the richest people in the country pay. Basically, nothing attacks is right in they avoid these taxes legally, they didn't get others localization, because the Astok right now. So what so? You been talking about this. You literally your whole career. Do you have propose? for how to amend the tax code, dropped to actually get out this wealth and not just income. We're on a number of proposed. Yes, We do in including a wealth tax which basically says that women attacks the incredible wealth that a handful of people in the sky-

for we have all, but we have to raise the corporate tax where we have to do away with drugs. The tax bill that he passed a few years ago, We can do that there is an error in the biomass talked about he's a Kenema recent, William and the guy was happy arrest was in trouble, point d of all things this crisis right now that there is hundreds of billions of dollars in most tax revenue that wealthy people large corporations are not tat. Is they have in many cases an army of accountants and wise or who can help them prevent them from paying their taxes are now on the Irish out on the arrests. Some wine wrestling in the getting more people know what they are doing to take on these corporations.

He s the minutes. I think for every dollar investigate and seven dollars in lost revenue from the very wealthy, that's bullshit bombing. Yet last question for you and me I'd. Imagine love people listening this. They feel the urgency about these big issues. What how should we focus our attention? I? What do you think people should be doing right now to help you pass the agenda you talked about in this interview. I think one of the things that bothers me since latitude corporate meteor in general is there is not enough discussion about the pain at working class families latino or experiencing right now we'll talk about half of our people in America or working picture preacher a means of the end of a week of hard work. You have nothing in the bank you living paycheck to pay for a paycheck stub. you're in serious trouble and your family may lose their houses. We got millions of people working for starvation, wages

we, don't ninety million people uninsured around your shirt You have kids, you know young people without rages levels that we have a childcare systems which is beyond using an wheaten create millions of jobs. By addressing I would change. Building a crumbling infrastructure, so I think the message has got to be dead in this paper will moment in history we ve got to reaffirm pupils belief at their government can work for them. The way you do that is by delivering the goods are delivering the goods by people thing with there eyes that real change is taking place in their life. I used trial that credit is one many examples. raise the minimum wage that at least fifteen bucks an hour and make workers the joy, You people see that is real change. What it means,

right now. In my sleep, all, which is probably by an average, the families bending fifteen thousand dollars see how the charter getting those knows there, maybe like maybe a single mom acted forty five thousand one third of your income goes the trunk. You insane without having people pay, no more than seven percent of their income. For all of those things you ve got the folks. Some too I'm going to answer your question and I did with began to talk about it. We need a government that works, ordinary people, and not just through the rich and when you say that- covers everything from child care who expanding many castle. Elderly people gotta have a dangerous in the mouth when they asked what it means green. You gotta watch all of us not just view well. Thank you that of ice thanks for fighting visages

centres and for doing shop. Thank you very much. Data Bernie Sanders for being here today, thanks to Professor Melissa, married for joining us as well, and everyone have a gray we pod save America is a crooked media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez, our senior producer is flabby, causes are associate, producers are Jazzy Marine and Bolivia, Martinez, its mixed in it by Andrew Chadwick Kyle said one is our sounded Ginea to tell you so mediator, Katy Long, roman puppet Dimitrios, Caroline Rustin ingesting how for production, support into our digital team. Eliza Cone, Phoebe, Bradford, Milo him yell Freed and Normal Conan, who film and share our episodes, is videos every week Is it just me, or do you sometimes wish the news were more fun? Yes, cathartic origin,

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