Hope Hicks is out, Jared Kushner is in trouble, Jeff Sessions is beleaguered, and Donald Trump is so angry he just might…implement tariffs on steel and support gun control measures? Then the Atlantic’s Natasha Bertrand talks to Tommy about the latest in the Mueller investigation.
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Newness. Does he think he's doing a good job corrected
I welcome the pod, save America John, fairer, Andrew Mother, not Tom you beat or applied. Today we have the Atlantic Natasha Bertrand will be talking with Tommy about her latest reporting on the Miller. Investigation stated stay tuned sign up for one day, our newsletter, its launch in, on Monday, a brand new
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My rang again Lytton just listen, you poor Kara, have to listen. This arose in real time was my favorite thing that happened this week. It's hilarious scope.
Percent of this package to keep it as my weekend activity fellowship. Do both these things is hope x?
Can anyone knew any information is still have a lot of free time ago? Sign up for symbolic has hope. Pot
my soul still available shrine has not taken it yet o o
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in the San Antonio area go? Get some take it? Don't miss the magic check out the Alamo Anna come see us talk about politics. Let's talk about,
The latest White House Hope Opera love
those years. I would love it's a great show. I think you re using. I love it, uses the title for our beta newsletter last night and I figured why wasted just among the small group of people who got anything at this is content for more than friends and family
It's like about Hicks, so undesirable Jared. I want to talk about sessions held. Do it big night in the boardroom yesterday is reportedly angrier than ever, and he might do something crazy, like slap tariffs on foreign steal, a realignment open. We heard at ease and more angry than ever before and worrying than ever before, and I use his enemies and angry deck. He's gettin itchy Tarifa figure that the idea that you could change America's international economic policy behind her mad about then only in everyone's reporting. This today, like it's completely normal like how he's really pest he might do those I heard where these matters just set shouldn't my dinner will terrible raise interest rates, and what are you talking about? What is happening is absurd. Sir. The other thing that was part of this Trump fit of peat coverage is dangerous moment Trump has lost the people closer to
he's steaming and wandering around the building all alone, every one of us has competent professionals who always pulled him back
from the brink, yet without Lewandowski, and beset Goerck around the man's loose armor bodyguard, as the other when they hear with where's kid Schiller is just like, is being paid out of a slush fund from the urgency right now, a great white, let's start with hope who quit yesterday, after being one of trumps closest and longest serving AIDS, as well as his fifth communications director the weight, as is publicly and privately telling reporters that Hicks had been considering. Leaving for several months, but she alternately pick the day after admitting to the House Intelligence Committee, that she told white lies for them
residents guys coincidence. What are we think? Do we care so Maggie Hitman was argued people about this on Twitter saying yet the hearing the day before Hope left was not the reason she decided to leave. I believe Maggie bees, I'm positive that hope, teat up this store with Maggie days and days in advance of that hearing. Hearings on that literal question, it's true, but I mean one hope should be smart enough as well as communications director to know the oppression announced today. You're leaving after you spent nine hours testifying from the congressional committee,
to the course that Mahler stuff is under girding. All of this is something that was miserable place in the world to work in this administration. It's a tough job anyway, but she's under real legal risk, reeled serious legal risk- and I would want out of there too, because every day she hears Donald Trump talking about hating sessions or whatever she's further exposed gods, eight, whether or not a specific coincidence around her testimony before the House Intelligence Committee. What is not a coincidence that every
the day she has worked as communication director for this precedent has been some combination of personal scandal, profession,
scandal or legal scandal that has gotten worse and worse and worse. The other thing as part of this whole coverage has been bugging me
there is something inherently success in the way she has covered that because she is young and pretty in a woman. Theirs is baseline assumption that she lacks agency.
That she doesn't have the same power or authority or responsibility as a man and that she's just a passenger on the Trump criminal.
Train but she's, not, and so, even if there is
is baseline sexism, in the way that you discussed publicly her legal comparability is not affected by the fact that
covered doesn't treat a young woman as being as responsible as a man. Here I mean, let's: let's remember it was only about a month ago that former Trump legal team spokesmen Mark Rallo quit and said that one of the rare, since he left his because he believed that hope may have obstructed justice when she said that the Don Junior
emails from the meeting the you know. If it's what you say, I love it especially later in the summer emails. You now throw me when she told everyone. Those emails will never get access, so not to worry so continue to write a statement with the present I'd say it's aboard air force, one saying that the meeting was about adoption, so she is possibly in legal jeopardy, for that is in an additional allows. Initial love. It was saying it's weird that she's always described as the person who understands him the best
the person who had his best interest at heart, a true believer in a world where you have true believers in like gross DC operators like the Gary Cones in the music in the spicers I'll, take them over the people that see him talking about like Charlottesville or the Muslim Ban and think you know it at heart. He's
good guy he's trying to do the right thing, I'm in it for the right reasons. The right reasons are deeply fucked up and if she doesn't get that, I dont know what to do for here. Yeah, I will say it:
some they had ever. You know, she's like a daughter, she's part of the family. I will say
there's nothing more familial inside of Trump world, then saying out loud or putting an email. No one will ever find out about this. That is almost hereditary to what these people
yet also, but doesn't like at least provocative,
She hasn't chosen to be part of the family she's, just part of a family hopes chosen to be part of this. Very she thinks it's fucking great, like one thing to be born into Scientology, but you signed up for it. Are you went in and took the course is troubling asshole to her heap like currently
asked he put in his book that Trump would make her stay.
His suits while they were on when they are on the road. That's an acute funny. Corky anecdote from the trail that
weird thing to do to the young like late, twenties, female staffer on your plane. He also apparently troublesome told Corey or told hope that she was quote the best piece of Tail Lewandowski ever had that was in the Michael Wolf book. That's disgusting thing to say to someone who is called yours:
can daughter. So it's all we are also seeing and also has an unnamed Trump Ella, who said the trumpets pissed about the White lies comment quote Trump asked Hicks after the testimony how she could be so stupid, and that was apparently the final straw for hope picks. So I think it could be true that what Maggie said that you know months ago, hope was first considering leaving, and then there were certain things,
ass couple weeks the sort of push for over the edge and our environment. It doesn't matter as laid down in our air Sahara exit timing. Does it matter
It doesn't matter at all. Rarely seen into their mothers team is also asking about hoping come into the New York Times two days after the election.
She said were not aware of any campaign reps that were in touch with any foreign entities before yesterday, which we now knows not than this is
really true, was that a white liar was a bigger. Who knows who knows what I hope you know what they're also there's no such thing as a white lie at the White House. I'm sorry, this
such thing as a white lie easier spokesperson for the president and sets as we learned by Mahler, makes all lies, pre pity well, yeah there he had, even when they are not lies that will land you in a massive criminal probing goes to the
of the foundations of american democracy. It is still not
Kate. A lighter report is on the other, the president, so Willa wealthy, see hope again in the reunion episode, but for now they'll be
Interestingly, under rubbish heap of younger brother of amorous. Next guys, I did say this, but I think our friend Jared isn't a lot of trouble.
Not our here one. So in the last forty eight hours, the white as chief of staff, has stripped away his topsecret security clearance. He lost his pr person in the Washington Post, ran a story about how foreign officials have
about how to get whatever they want out of Jared by taking advantage of the fact that these billions of dollars in debt probably has business interests in their countries.
And is generally a fucking moron. That was all topped by last night's New York Times story that revealed Jared met multiple times in the White House, with leaders of at least two financial institutions that then made large loans to cushioning family real estate business that he still partially owns
My first question: what does this mean for Middle EAST? Peace will get their later. I mean
APOLLO, global management lent him or her,
Eighty four million dollars after taking me.
With Jared. Jeered, apparently floated the see yo a job opportunity by the sea. Oh, I mean the like the utter lack of judgment. It takes to take this meeting
to allow this loan to go through a staggering. Can you imagine Dan Pfeiffer, who had Gerrit Zalm,
taking a meeting in into accepting a hundred eighty four million dollar loan that I find his trust. The process t shirt scheme as a crazy thing. I've ever heard and then the cushion copy statement said. Could our companies
have any conversations nor interaction with the white, as visitors mentioned in the time story? Ok
So then the loans magically appeared, jeered, Greece them or something happened here, zoom out. So many coincidence, isn't this White House yeah, so there's there's two sides to corrupt
there's here's how it held Jared and here's how it hurt the rest of us? It's pretty clear how this help Jared graveyards yards businesses are in serious problem. You know
a building on Fifth avenue, and it could make a work ah he's
a lot of debts. His dry
around the world to try to refinance and finances debt. Fine, that's clearly what he's doing here, but but how does it hurt the rest of Us Donald Trump did an about face on a carried interest loophole that benefits all
These people that chair has been seeking money from and it was actually remarkable when trump
TAT S right of your member, he was one of the people on the camp. He was a populist and he was like we're going to make sure
these you know these wealthy Wall Street types, they don't pay a lower tax rate than than teachers right. That sort of the argument that was always part of the plant and then it just never was part of the plant. It never went into drums taxpayer.
And so what happened? Well, they have to get the money from elsewhere. So its means higher taxes for middle class people. It means fewer deductions from normal people all because there are
culture in the White House, which Jared clearly could not pass these people off because he was so desperate loads. Sunny, though, in this in this trumpet us you like, who is the culprit for the flip on the carried interest loophole, could it be Jared meeting with financial institutions? Could it be the fact that here
the head of Goldman Sachs running as economic. Could it be Paul Ryan Mitch Mcconnell who laughed when they heard about the carry finches? I guess I who foot know we're never gonna do it could have in any other option clue had no eight illiterates murder on your and express their that he carried into loophole. They all did it,
this sort of rogues, unlike so, is energetically security clearance? Is you can step down? Is he gonna stay as imagine Kelly's junk? I met him, but, like all that aside, it seems like Jared could be in some real
legal trouble with with Bob mother. Here you know I mean Marcy Railroad apiece in New York Times asking Jerry. It's gonna, be the next indictment on a conspiracy to defraud America charge witches.
Charge of choice, for it just so predictable. Yet this is why you don't go into a white house. Job without delay
getting rid of all your companies and business interests and why you, when you have massive debts, is seen as a liability for say a security clearance process, or you know like these are all disclosed he having just there. So many piece of this will that are hard to understand how we can trust any decision that they feel making. There was a story that
Rick Perry is, is jetting off to meet with the Saudis, because I were going to help us out his get nuclear reactor. So it's in a big problem. Well, how does this fit in with Donald Trump's business interests? How does this fit in with with Jared Kushner's business interests? Did any of this
come up when, when Jared was going over to Saudi Arabia, when we know that these are some of the people he seeking loans from Temp buoy,
his business. We doesn't run out of money well send in the West wing. I mean remember. Manner for gates were charged with. The conspiracy was that in the guise of pursuing foreign policy on behalf of the United States, there are actually serving the interests of themselves and foreign governments, and that is that now, which areas involved in is the Washington Post or too, like he's been conducting foreign policy both before the administration started during transition and since then- and the question is if he was doing that in the guise of helping America, but actually helping his own families interests or helping the foreign interests, because all these other countries now think they can trick em.
Then he's going to be really fuckin big drunk, and we already know that his sister was out there. Hocking visas for five hundred thousand dollar invest no immigration, the United States, unless you can pay jarred
We will all we want to cut immigration, except if you a five hundred thousand dollars and you're a chinese investor who wants to pay the questioners off, then one can go
you're, not a shithole country, ancillary
terrible example- can eat just on the security glancing Tommy like so we are entitled to settle it. Can he can he do his job security clearance? Was he ever doing his job? I dont think
I mean that, as far as I can tell, his job are in the Middle EAST: peace on boy, Ella, well,
he was well developed that relations with Mexico, which is a big security relationship. He deals with China in some form or fashion and he's like a floating bigshot adviser who likes to go to the PD, be in demand intelligence. If even downgraded from a ts YE I clearance of sensitive compartment information clearance to a secret level. You can't do any of those things. You could certainly go into a room and haven't negotiations and talk but technical details, but most timely gaunt negotiation with any country. Even given every piece of intelligence about the person. Your meeting with what they ve been saying with their position is what they think their position is like ways to convince them in a jeered can't access that stuff. It's a huge problem
This is a bit you know look. This is like the princess bride. Jarred is a master, and basically, what he's gonna show all of us that we can do this. Let him he doesn't need the information he's a good guy. This is a guy that sits across the table. He sees inside of our adversary.
And he knows what they want, he knows how to get them, what they want, we're getting America, what Mary, the track record of success, absolutely menaces oppressive. Every the days of his lie that every phase in his life he has defied the naysayers defied expected
If that is true- and I should have thought about it- a rate that is true. It is one more point on yard. I do in some way feel bad for him, because none of this would have happened if he hadn't had the resources to buy a spot at Harvard
which ultimately led him on a path to be in positions where he was too stupid and ill equipped to do the crimes he needed to do and get away
for some of them arrogant, religious state at the White House state on the outside, but a grafting low schmuck, not on the guy
in time and gone away with all speed.
Having I try to get five hundred caper visas in China.
And God gonna gonna: U S Open and whatever the hell he likes, it needed more needed more
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Get a great work at home anytime, you want gonna one Palatine, dot com use, the code. Pod save America, get yourself started our beloved attorney General Jeffrey Beauregard Sessions. A third is
seized once again. Yesterday, the president of the United States called him disgraceful, VIII, a tweet and attacked sessions for not investigating the Justice Department that is investigating Donald Trump. The Washington Post says the trump
recently refers to sessions as Mr Mobutu because he is elderly and bumbling. I laughed the thousand women, so much news happened on Wednesday. That's the Trump tweet about sessions in the morning,
sort of faded away by the end of the day seems like a pretty big.
Other guys, possibly a bigger than hope, Hicks leaving. Of course, you can forget the episode of Miss.
Ago where he tried to stop civil rights groups from helping black people about think that
The closer look, a little reexamination, sorry Tommy, Oriole metal. I was
the position of origin, forgetting its when you ok Trump cards
disgraceful and a tweet, and then just sections goes out to dinner, with hot rod. Rubinstein announced the number three that the Islamic General yea and in the whole lot these establishments like look
burn exile and definitive, ignore. Maybe there's this fucking disappear, telling trump, that this is what he is doing. He doesn't care even a rational actor in this he's. Gonna spout, often fire of the fucking us a fire. Apparently sessions hit back in the DC term by
releasing a statement. Those like I will continue to do my job with integrity, but then the reporting is that, like Trump saw that and got even
We reject that. We love that advice of relations. I wonder sometimes, if we keep, you know, there's always periods ribbons like he's going to fire mother's going ephemeral and then he doesn't and we move past anything. Okay, now we're safe, but it does seem like at any moment he could say it, maybe not firewall or but fire sessions or fire Rosen stay like interest. You know
yeah! I know I fully understand the three dimensional chess down trumpets playing with Jeff sessions with the Good NEWS is, I don't know Trump understands it either. You know the fact there
a point where the attorney general is getting dinner with other dresses. Carbon officials- and this is seen as a rebuke to the president- is quite a place debate
couple of luck and cheered plates in these guys are to the barricades. I mean yes like two to continue metaphorically the chest they Trop is playing that he knows that his queen. Is that no matter what he does Paul Ryan will pull the covers over his head and hide from it and pretend it never happened. So there will be no accountability, fires, the whole goddamn justice department, yeah now he's
back up, but fortunately about mauler soldiers on were signing him more leaks about the investigation. This week yesterday, we learned that monitors question witnesses in detail about trumps, private comments and state of mind over the summer when he tried to publicly bully sessions into quitting, because Mahler thinks perhaps that might be obstruction of justice. Perhaps he wants his attorney general to quit, so he can replace them with someone who will shut down the rush,
investigation? Why do we surmise that? Maybe because he told us multiple times in public to lift your whole lesser evil and your holidays visited the oval to anyone who listen, I don't know, seems like an air tight gazed me missing, but is there
to say. Yeah course you looking into this he's
apparently Moors also asking what this is about? Whether tromp was aware that democratic emails had been stolen before that was publicly known. This goes back to again why we smaller asking that question, perhaps because I'm late July trumped up at a Prescott,
said Russia. If you listening, go, find olive Hilary females. He was getting on the Piazza Roger Stone who had said protested, timing, arrows, they're coming soon time in the barrel. Does another place where
mother's prerogative and immediate relatives are different similar to hope. In that you know there may be inherent sexism and how hope Hicks is treated, there's also an inherent bias towards newness and other media.
Yunus, not newness, newness, and how the media treat these stories and again, Robert Mahler doesn't care that Trump wanting to obstruct justice or
asking the Russians to hack, is not new or that he did it publicly and doesn't need to be uncovered vs some sort of investigation. It goes to the legal issues, not the interesting ass for DC reporters yeah yeah, and if you can't see the line now between, like pop up, was finding out that the Russians had a bunch of stolen hacked emails that they're going to disseminate, which we now find out from the ship Mama that it was not just him knowing about most but knew that the Russians working summit them and that he didn't go back to the campaign and tell them and it didn't get back to Trump and then Trump is now hiding from the federal government. The fact that Russians or about attack and disseminate emails and then tries to
struck the investigation into it? Like that's the crime, guys, that's conspiracy, to defraud that's obstruction of justice? That's everything you have to be. The gun was no ok just start doing it all. You is mired so long ago that the smoke has cleared, but Mauler saw the smoking gun there. The gun, with smoke into tie a little bo on smoking, gun the essay,
reactors at a hearing like yeah Trump hasn't. Given me the authority to go after rushing to try to deter this, and what are we doing and meanwhile, after gets into office, though his whole administration is just drifting every single day, despite
Ben Carson's decorating office and thirty thirty one thousand dollars a reservation hardware going over and heard every is just like the corruption. It runs deep. You don't have to be a voter. Who cares about the Russia investigation itself to believe that this administration is deeply corrupt and taking advantage and wasting taxpayers money and taking vendor their power, while everyone else's struggling to
higher wages at others that there has been a very improbable right. I was gonna say before I was looking at a message: documents. A hearty is another biased and mother doesn't have to have. Is this all doesn't need to connect into
one grand story from eight: they go right
b, c d, although it is he,
there are many interlocking behaviour on the part of these people that could be different and unrelated crimes. Right, I mean we have a ton of finance
shake it going. We with the manifold stuff. We have the flint stuff. We have the Trump collusion step. We have obstruction of justice stuff. We have what we have. What sound meeting these are all different things they dont need to all,
Does that to be one super crimes right? They only do Us
symbol into one super bought. You know whatever dry it just close in the top of a president who refused to divest from any of his business interests, who wouldn't releases tax returns, you didn't take any the basic ethics steps or or disclosure staff for transparency. Steps are required of president. Everyone took their cue from Trump and his utter indifference to ethics and
the norms and acted accordingly. I think that that is the super crime eyes. I disagree. I think it is all one thing: it's all corruption, it is all like the Russia, the business interests,
Fucking spending money on your office, all it's all right.
It's all what we are all trying to defraud America get an absolutely but like Flynn trying to kid
green card out of out of Pennsylvania Access to funds, I'm mad affords rug, shit Jerry.
That's really needing loans, you could get rid of all
that and there are still a whole other basket of tribal unrelated trying to committees relating to fraud. America is a treasure trove of crimes perpetrated anyway best of luck. My mother, I know we predict but has jeered, survive
you? He doesn't have a clear if can't do his job John Kelly, hates him these loans,
This is like staggering corrupt know. If you're a mean, if your Jared you-
wait for an engine, if you don't get tripped up by any more stories above Mahler John Kelly, you wait
Couple weeks are couple months from now, and things are quiet and you say of Aachen, ire heading back to New York and that's that and also lies pr guides resign TS go to all of this is part of a larger story.
In which Paul Ryan has not done anything to hold these people accountable, because the reason he should
survive is want story like this breaks. There should be what they call on these things. To happen,
cohering hearings. They would cholera, hearings and oversight. He'd be subpoena there'd been investigations. He wouldn't be able to just hide from the new, while speaking of which there is a story right before us are recording vets.
Apparently we found out now that the House Intelligence Committee, led by dumb Devon newness, decided to leak Mark Warner's private text messages to Fox NEWS to try to impede the russian investigation. These were text messages with Christopher Steel wrote the dossier,
which the republic and head of the Senate until committee knew about everyone knew about. It was not a scandal which you know good enough for their public and more
A Rubio baroque him and said no. This is ridiculous, as is in the scandal at all
and now we found out that the House Committee newness actually leads to Fox news.
Richard Bird Republican of the Senate and took many an mark Warner have a meeting with Paul?
Ryan to tell him. Can you fucking believe that your guy who's running the house until committee leaked private Texas
it is of a. U S, senator to Fox NEWS and Paul Ryan response was. Will I do in the committee
they were not getting any far rise. Other good reminder that, no matter what mother does we're not get any oversight or help from Congress until we flip it not mean that is that we enter Democrats take over and twenty two yet look whenever you have this feeling of like how can this be going on? How can nothing
we. That is the way until Democrats take over and twenty eight. Yet look whenever you have this feeling of like how can this be going on? How can nothing be happening? How does to get away with this house get away with? It doesn't get away with it, because some intrinsic quality of the presidency or the press he's getting away with it, because Paul Ryan has made a choice. Mitch Mcconnell has made a choice about how to run
the Congress, and it has been to just let Trump do whatever. I am in your seat in the Senate side you're, seeing Warner and Bird ACT in a pretty cool each away, and we know that committee historically is by partisan views. Intelligence is important and it shouldn't be politicizing. Yes, we're imperfect in these goals, but they do a pretty good job of it. Devon Nunez has been allowed to run wild by Paul Ryan and he's humiliated himself time and time again, and yet we still let him drive new cycles. Weak creep, bullshit memos leak messages that were disclosed to him by Mark Warner like there's, no there's something untoward about Warner, trying to reach out to have conversations with the potential witness Devon, Nunez Dispatch, his own
here's to London to harass Christopher Steel, so I dont even get what the issue is, whether China make everything it it's a strange thing where anything Obama did to investigate what is an incredibly important issue which Russia interfere. Turn democracy is not seen as partisan. Anything Mark Warner did to investigate is seen as partisan are inherently wrong. They're trying to the head of the house and told his committee currently conducting investigation is trying to make any kind of investigation into Trump look somehow nefarious, and we should say that it's not working in the public, its working among republican voters very, very well, but pulls up last couple weeks should than in Depend
and Democrats, if you ask them like, do you trust you just tramper? Do you trust by Mahler on this one bubble? Me wins among independence in a big way too. So it's just Leah the Republicans in their Cocoon Fox NEWS. The nose at dumbly than wasting new cycles amount Amerika Square John Square Job, so foreign hand of a guy just working, but that's not the Thai not of a prince or a dilettante, the Thai, not ever
The working investigator Ironside. Wasn't it I've known you Windsor for
Albert Mahler, not even a half, Windsor leave it in a throughout?
So, as you know, our trump enjoys televised meeting lawmakers because he gets to play
independent deal making asshole from the apprentice but to the rest of the world, including the people there,
and ends up. Looking like a bunch of politicians explaining the basic issues of the day to someone that they just met at a senior centre and that's what it looks like yesterday,
with this gun meeting. So they have this meeting about guns with in the cabinet round with tromp democratic lawmakers republican lawmakers in Trump basically agrees.
Every gun, control measure. The Democrats proposed in the meeting comprehensive background checks Ray
the purchasing aged twenty one banning bomb stocks even seems like is open to the assault weapons man, something that made
fine, I'm literally almost jump out of her seat. I'll, tell you, John, by the end of the meeting when Diane Feinstein Amy Closure, Donald Trump laid down in front of the and our aim to do a guy, and I was like wound wow what a deal meagre. He also said about making sure that people with mental health issues, don't get guns quote. Take the guns. First, do
about this later,
now due process works, its interrupted my path: does it make plans is obviously due process, but we gotta make sure people don't get those countries like MIKE wearily due process, it's a literal and are a fever. Dream like this is their worst nightmare, just a gun grab without any with any restrictions in, and you can see it on the wet bright Bart website,
look like an Edward monk painting the screaming into the avoid all calves websites trumpet the gun. Grabber see there is still lives in the house by the way were bright, markers writing other stuff. So people are losing their minds, I'll suggests to say yeah. What wonder we split? The order will take the liberty and property then do the due process
that, isn't it you can get it so like the intersection of, like obviously, totally changed his position basin with the airlines, but also just being incredibly stupid about the meaning of these terms, like I would love for someone to turn to trumpet just be like what is due process it? What is it? What do you think? It is
You know that there are some people say and twitter and obviously like he did this before. He did this in an immigration meaning months ago, multiple immigration meetings where he said you know, I love the dreamers, look doc. I we're gonna fix it and then you know now he's never gonna do anything about it, but in others have you like Y Y televised these meetings, and this is bad and Bob like actually think reporters handled yesterday, pretty good,
Everyone should meeting we like it's pretty extraordinary, what's happening this meeting, but not one person thought that anyone should give a shit about
What that was actually happen that meaning, because everyone knew that Republicans and the White House staff was gonna, walk everything. He said back immediately after the meeting which they did Republicans
send it all interviewed after the meeting there I like not on it
We are only doing stuff, they get sixty votes. I don't know what he was talking about: bubble, blot leg, it systematically ignored yeah, it's so there's the pardon, which obviously Trump is not a good faith actor.
I don't think we don't know how much of what Trump is saying he really thinks of the time or he wants to put on a good show and just be a pleaser and knows that when he gets back, you know Kelly and the rest of the goons of the White House will tell him why he can't do what he actually said. He would do what he knows. That's going to happen, verses
Donald Trump is in a cycle where, in the moment he doesn't have any policy decisions and he thinks that sound smart. That sounds reasonable. He made like here.
Not just come to this meeting with the kind of bromides he came to the dreamers meeting with him and he was in the details,
of a policy, at least by his standard. He said if an eighteen year old in the nineteenth and twentieth camp, I hang on. Why should they be able to buy an air fifteen? That is a very reasonable questions right. That was a that is a question.
Born of having thought about the issue for ever more people in new sock about this, but it is better than usual right. It was more nuanced and thoughtful than he's ever been on any other issue. So
I dont know what you do when you have a guy that seems amenable to these things within his captured after by news he watches and the people around him. I know you do you win back Congress because I've I started thinking to myself. What is that meeting look like or what is the aftermath? Look like in a world where trucks humor Nancy Policy are running Congress and he says these things in a meeting and they go back into cool we're gonna passed those bills and then they sent him to death. Now he still
The White House around him, John Kelly too, like take the bill away. He bought me John John Kelly is mine.
More of a hard line or immigration that that the problem which on Kelly was always
the general he's an adult bought an immigration he's pretty right wing. You know he doesn't seem to come to the table with the same set of assumptions on guns that it came on immigration. I that's. I was thinking that too. I mean you, you have like Stephen Miller and John Kelly, who are hard core like anti immigration on every level and that killed everything to do with Dhaka. I just think like you in this instance, you might not have those personality that we know that are super pro interior programme, but they're all political, hacks and smart enough to know that this would crush them with their base. They actually did something meaningful tat. I think, though, grab it all back from. I grew that two sagging, but that the yes, but the point is that the real villains on gun control are not even it's, not even Donald Trump. In this case it is Mitch Mcconnell and Paul Ryan because they will and watched Congress in the next couple weeks there
prevent anything meaningful from coming to the floor. They might not even to a bomb stocks thing because they're gonna say oh eighty, I can do that. He can do that with executive order, even though it you have saying maybe they can't so they'll do. Maybe do that and maybe this fix Anthea s thing fix, nics fix, Annex YAP, visibly improving the background system without actually closing the gunshot loopholes coconuts like the most modest improvements possible. It's not great so anyway, they're not going to do anything, and so you have to fix the Congress that you never that's. The first appear because those
but blackened us against as it without my last Saturday, while a further study Mozilla much happen, they always like so much. Is it those others days overseers day I wouldn't even tell everyone. Did dances tells me to say to the top of any moved on? Oh, I forgot about that. I just thought it was important to give a paper that China's no date anyways what it's like to do. Pod save America in the studio on Thursday Dan's outbreaks,
then it's analyze we basically when he was in the White House, and now we are alone. With
well uh banks and he just vending it so there s a janitor mayor setting an unbiased, I bought a new citizens like other
hey guys means so much news. Yes, homage news, ok! Well, when we come back
we'll have time his interview with Natasha Bertrand. Pardon me
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To the pod and Natasha Bertrand, cheesy staff writer at the Atlantic, and covers national security and the intelligence community issues near and dear to my heart, I M very excited to go out with you today: Natasha Thanks Rhodesia,
eggs are inviting me. Ok, so literally, as we were getting connected to record this than your times broke a story that says these
intelligence committee by
partisan leadership has this figured out that the
ex messages from Senator Mark Warner. The top Democrat on the committee were leaked by the House Intelligence Committee. Republicans
What do you make of this and this? The committee? That, historically, has been more by
Artisan and almost any part of Congress because of the sensitive nature of intelligence, because there is an effort to truly partisanship at the door, even though we often fail when it comes to national security issues. What do you make of it? I mean it's just absolutely mind blowing, so this Unintelligence committee, I presume, was trying to be transparent with the Taos counterpart and a staffer for Nunez, for definition, as the chairman of the House and tell Kennedy asked for a copy of the,
tax messages, I guess that somehow they caught window of the fact that Mark Warner had been communicating with a lawyer who represented a russian oligarch and who had ties to Christopher Steel because, of course, Mark Warner. The rinki member of those into
many was trying to arrange a meeting with steel, so the house until got wind of these text, messages asked for a copy of them and then immediately he proceeded to leak them, which completely kind of breaches
norms of how these committees operate. You know it's. It's kind of
there stood that if you share information between the committees that it won't have leaked right, it's one thing and there's been a lot of criticism of the Democrats for leaking about hope, Hickses testimony, for example, about the Democrats in the house in talking any kind of revealing
that she, you know, said during her testimony that she sometimes tells white lies fur president Trump. This was, of course, before she resigned yesterday, but it's different way,
You have one committee giving material to another committee and then the Republicans on that very very partisan committee, which has basically been a complete circus over the last year, proceeding to leak. It to Fox news
I also, I guess I don't even get what the goal of the leak was, because it's not like notary.
Idiot Devon, newness hadn't sent his own staffers or try to meet with steel. He despatched a couple AIDS to London to try.
Hunt him down and have conversations like I dont totally
Yet what the allegation is here to you right, exactly
but the allegation is that Mark Warner was trying to do this secretly that he didn't want to leave. At one point he did send a text message saying that he didn't want to leave a paper trail that would be able to tie him back to the fact that he was trying to meet with Christopher.
But the thing that I think Fox NEWS buried her either buried or failed to mention that article is that Richard Bertha report.
Can. Leader of the Senate Intelligence Committee, was
Where of what more corner was doing while he was doing it because they were both trying very hard to get steel to come and talk to the committee and they have been for the better part of a year now. So the premise of the article which is
This is something that Mark Warner was going Rogan that he perhaps was trying to get in touch with steel to maybe get more dirt on Donald Trump, maybe get more information about his Russia ties and that he was kind of
going out it alone is completely undermined by the fact that this was a completely by partisan effort and, of course, the text messages themselves were later shared
the full committee, and then you, some Harker Rubio, come out and immediately defend, Mark Warner's efforts to get still testify
are what we're sorry. Well, this is developing switching there's a little bit. You had a big scoop in the Atlantic. This peace, where you obtained transcripts that showed Roger Stone, who is aid decades long, informal adviser, Slash creep to Donald Trump, has been indirect touch with the Wiki weeks team. A couple questions about this: first, what's almost
perfect, that someone leaks thee, Wiki weeks, twitter dams, but no believe that asylum who runs a wiki weeks twitter account. Is this satchel
Aside from Ecuadorean Embassy in London talking rubbish tone so widely understood
that Assange is the one who runs the Wikileaks account. He obviously has he has the bulk of their control over it. That being said, he dies share it with some Wikileaks staff. We don't exactly know who they are, how many people have access,
the account, but the prevailing understanding is that he is the one who exercises the most control over. It got it. What was Roger Talkin about with these guys, what it where they had the DMZ you not to
things are. I actually obtained a screenshot of a conversation that they had beginning on October, thirteenth, twenty sixteen in which
Don't reaches out to us on shared Wikileaks in this case and says: hey, why
you guys attacking me basically, because Wikileaks, of course, had kind of gone on this pr campaign to distance themselves, from Roger Stone and from the term campaign and from any suggestion that they were coordinating in any way, because that you no kind of undermine the impact of of their publications, undermine the impact of
of the inner Dnc leaks it it may have undermined the impact of the pedestal, leaks, so Roger shone out of reach.
Out and said: hey, quitted it, because I'm really one of your. Only allies here and were Healy,
responded and said. Well, your claims of false association are
damaging to us kind of implying that there was no strategic coordination between them before that point and Andrew
the stone breeds violence as well. You know you really need to figure out who your friends are again implying that he was one of their only friends at that point which to be fair there.
Not very popular who towards the end of the of the presidential election, but most
in part of that entire kind of a screenshot that I obtained, which Roger Stone did confirmed to me, was authentic
is on November ninth, the very day after dawn Trump won the election Wikileaks rights to stone again and said.
Are you happy now we're more free to communicate your welcome exactly so. I asked
if this was kind of the entirety of the.
Invitation and he said that he himself he had turned over all of this information to the committee and that the
portion that I had obtained was kind of a paced up and that it was taken out of context imply
that who was actually even more to that Wikileaks conversation than just what I had obtained now, of course, when I asked him for the rest of that conversations, I could put it more into contacts. If that's what he wanted, he declined to provide it to me. I think there is a zero percent chance that learn a bunch, more messages between Roger Zone, Wikileaks, vs Signal or some other.
Wrap that we can never ever get our hands with, but setting back a bit it so weird like when I was in the White House in Wikileaks are first mooted dumping out cables and other things. They were. We
Lee. Seen by Republicans Democrats, the foreign policy establishment, almost everyone as an enemy of the state, and that me
have been a little silly and overstated at the time, but I was kind of his eyes fast forward.
Right or stone connecting with what you easy of Donald Trump Junior talking a wiki weeks. You have
Intercept reporting. Other dm as were Wiki weeks, is talking about their preference for Trump over Clinton. This is
pricing take for a pro transparency organization. In my view, what is driving this today, just hate Hilary. This much in started
DR against her in and fight against her and connect with the Trump people or words or somethin more nefarious. Here, let's not
even only that the United States saw Wikileaks as an enemy of the state at that. Wikileaks actually saw itself from the very beginning.
As an enemy of the? U S and other enemy of kind of this, what they saw as an imperialistic kind of militaristic culture that, in the George W Bush years, was kind of the prevailing idea of the United States. At that point, and of course ever since you know it, it started out very much as a transparency organization, or at least that's what they said, that they
were they were kind of indiscriminate and who they targeted. But now you know, since Julian Assange has been kind of locked up in the ecuadorean embassy for the last five years in London and, of course, since that the twin sixteen
action when we saw Wikileaks, essentially become a cut out for the Russians, its becoming clear man. It's a really interesting shift in and many people are trying to figure out what exactly clicked and essential,
head, I'm is becoming clear that they are. You know exactly what my compel. The CIA director said that they are. There are hostile intelligence service that is willing to take help from dictatorships from autocrat in order to target and undermine the: U S and the west, whether or not that stems solely from their hatred of many people like George W Bush or Hillary Clinton. That seems to be a bit of a stretch
seems like now. Assange is kind of stretching for relevance. Yeah I mean. Is that what it is? You think this is the personal peak of a guy who's enraged at for spending years. Innocent
little embassy rubies. He seems you even have distanced himself from people like that
Snowden or Snowden Navy distanced himself from Assange or Glenn Green
or other folks who, for while, seem like they were all serve on the same team. Pushing generally speaking for more transfer
Currency, even when it did damage to the United States.
Even when there was no reductions right. Soda Glenn, Greenwood actually distance himself from Wikileaks Julian Assange, because they were dumping kind of indiscriminately like social security numbers and very private information of the people whose documents were caught up in their leaks. But
It is an interesting thing to wonder about whether or not Julian Assange Lit,
He has no idea where the documents come from, that he gets his hands on
and why he's been so insistent that he never knew that Russia was the source of these pack documents. What is it like to cover this mother,
sagacious day in and day out I mean like. I can't even imagine where you guys begin to try to shake down sources to figure out what the hell's going on in there are. They are they.
Steel trap that they look like from the outside our I mean that
in this kind of trying to get two witnesses that mauler has already interviewed sometimes been up. Some people are more willing to describe their experience than others, but of course they come out of there.
Things with modern, with the EP, with his team, with a man,
date, not to speak to the press, so it is a very, very difficult not to crack and, of course, on top of that, it's a lot of speculation
we really dont know other than these snippets of what the witnesses come out and tell us about the direction of his question anger or about the sense that
God now, I'm in the room, we ve.
Don't know what he concretely, how, as we know the pieces of the puzzle that he has, but we don't know what he's managed to put together so far. It seems like you know. The obstruction case is the more public facing one at. This point is because Donald Trump has not helped himself by being so public about the fact that he, you know, really doesn't like Jeff sessions right now, because just sessions refuse himself from the Russia proven and is an actively investigating this. You know alleged vice abuse by the Justice Department and because you know he fired James call me last year, so these are all things that it would be its very obvious that smaller is looking into, but we also saw this big. You know NBC Report yesterday that kind of confirmed that he's also looking into collusion. We saw that mothers now asking witnesses specifically will what did Donald Trump know about the emails that Wiki lease had about the Dnc emails about whether or not they actually had Hillary Clinton? Thirty, three thousand missing emails.
I'll. Remember that really enough famous moment from that press conference, so it's it's difficult. She'd get a concrete sense of what mother has in terms of how much of the puzzle he's already put together, but the pieces are there and and right now, it's just up to kind of the press to put them together and weight on what Mahler has in terms of possible. You know indictments might not be able to answer this views of no just source confidentiality, but I wanna pushed you on one thing
which is when I was a part of two FBI investigations into leaks when I was at the White House and the one,
thing that we were told by
our lawyers by the investigators by the D o j with you, don't talk about this with anybody except earlier period, they scare the show
that of us. So what is the motivation for a source to talk to the press about what they learn from Mahler or what they were asked? Is this pure score? Settling
with enemies. Is there some others to teach? You read that I dont understand. What's your take on this will give you getting
ample, so I interviewed arms him on a Monday anti. Who, of course, is the fiance of George Papadopoulos.
She actually one of the first things that she told me about was her.
Interview with smaller- and I was actually very surprised I was like. Are you? Are you supposed to be telling me about this on the record? But she was very forthcoming
but she told me that the interview lasted a couple hours she described. You know the fits you very well could have been lying to me, but you described you know what this is. Some of the questions that Mueller at that most team asked her if she was being interviewed outage
go and you know. I think that her motivation, for example, was that she wanted to make it clear that
she had done nothing wrong and that her interview was, you know very much just kind of superficial questions about what she did for a living, how she met George pop up as what she knew about Georgia's contacts with the shady russian
professor Russia linked professor, so a lot of it, you know, may be just that so many people. Turning back to the White House, so many people have kind of
I'm in and out of the White House, and have seen so much in their so much internal battles that go on in this administration that perhaps they do
throw some people under the bus now, but I do think that sources coming forward in talking about their interviews with Mahler are primarily self serving
Yeah is fascinating to me when days after Steve,
and and goes in for an interview. Suddenly, you read a whole bunch of stuff about what's being asked about, your customer seems like an interesting. I waited until the touch of urgent day.
So much to do in the show. Everyone follow her on twitter check out her peace in the Atlantic ever should read the piece about Roger Stone sliding into Wikileaks DNS. Is he so stupid thanks again tat these things? Are
Alright thanks to Natasha Bertrand for joining us today, and thank you guys for stepping into Dan Pfeiffer. Thank you. We
Sudan Miss Dan will see. The sun will see in Texas next week guys we're going inspects the next week, oh yeah yeah, I'm lonesome tickets,
I get a move on tickets also, so you know next Thursday's plot is gonna come on Friday Friday morning and then
following Monday's part, is going to come Tuesday because we're on the road in Texas was made
No I'll Thailand and thoroughness and there's gonna be a bonus. We want
tell you when or when it's going to Sunday, my Sunday,
Sunday, anyway, paused in Dallas used in San Antonio, not mad order, but those of the city's Texas, I think they're still some San Antonio take look out. Barbecue, I'm coming for you excited said I am too by everyone.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-01.