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“The Jackson Pollock of racism.”

2019-07-22

Trump doubles down on his racist attack, the Administration proposes further restrictions on refugees and asylum-seekers, and the President heads into 2020 with an electoral college advantage. Then Adam Serwer of the Atlantic talks to Jon L. about Trumpism and the battle for a multiracial democracy.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Welcome to POD save America. I'm done! I'm done, love it and tell me before later in the pod love it talks to Adam Server of the Atlantic, about Trump, isn't in the fight for multi racial democracy. Before that we're talking about president, doubling down on his racist attacks. The administration latest restrictions on immigration and whether or not Trump has an electoral college advantage heading into two thousand and twenty Grooming notes today we're releasing the final episode of this land, where you can hear about next, battleground in the fight for native rights, so check out that an be sure to binge the entire series at this landpodcast dot com Benge. It very compelling exciting story, just looking at
what we've done to the word binge been yeah. We made it a good thing and it wasn't for a very long now. It's great yeah just take all those pods at once also big news about our la a pod: save America show at the Greek Theatre on August 17th in addition to being joined Jemele Hill Amanda Seales best coast in Jim James, Maggie Rogers will be performing huge update, huge Another benefit. I think my mom's is going to come out well just know that you'll be in the presence of the person that led to this wow? We got Tommy's mom and Maggie Rogers. Louise be there. The show starts at seven hundred and thirty and proceeds will be donated to organizations at the forefront of the fight to protect the vote across America. So it's a good cause. It will be great show, get your tickets now at cricket, dot com, slash the Greek. Alright, let's get to the news. Over the weekend. The president made clear that he meant it when he told for Congress of Color to leave America on Saturday. He
that he doesn't believe the women are quote capable of loving our country in today he call open quote. A very racist group of troublemakers were young inexperienced and not very smart, and just days the president, said he wasn't happy with the sender back chance at his rally in North Carolina. He reversed himself on Friday and said the going to a reporter who asked if he was unhappy with the crowd. Chant quote: those are incredible: people they're, incredible patriot, All this comes. The Washington Post confirms the trumps original attack on the squad was not the carefully planned we have a political mastermind, but the gut reaction of a dotty old racist to a segment on fox and friends. Guys. Would you post story. It says that White House aides didn't think that Trump fully understood that his tweets were racist and said that quote. He thought he was interjecting himself into democratic politics in a good way, so yeah Well, so one thing that you guys want me to do this. One thing that comes across in the pieces: it was
It clearly was a strategy in a discussion they had to go after the squad, yes that is. That is something that they've been talking about, trying to insert think about how to insert himself into that to elevate those members. It does seem as, though his way of doing it with something that was more of a kind of Jackson, Pollock ask kind of exploration of form, so I think both things are true. I, second, on Fox and friends sets the national debate. The democratic party had its worst Newsday. As in a long time when that fight was on going- and he just was like- I got a guy's jumps into with the worst impossible and unites us behind our reminding that we hate him couple of things- and they said that weekend- one it's just he's, always projecting right, like he's and who's incapable of loving anything but himself and he's accusing them of not being able to love their country. I don't think anyone
be surprised by the pattern we saw. This is exactly what happened in Charlottesville. He was rebuked for being a saying, shameful disgusting things and he walked it back a few weeks later 'cause. He cares more about looking weak than he does about actually treating people with decency and humanity, but yeah. What's, unfortunately, depressing and still the case is the Republicans Washington don't view Racism is a moral or anesthetic to our values, antithetical to our values, the country at least not publicly. They talk about it as bad politics and the media often adopts his framing in the discussion. That should be about right and wrong, and moral and immoral becomes laundered through the prism of a political strategy discussion whether this will turn out his base, or you know fire up. People on Twitter, it sucks, and then the final republican move is always to play the victim and say the Democrats are really the racists in the squad, they're, actually racist and they hate their country and that they, the good people.
At the Trump rallies are the ones being victimized. So it's the same. Bullshit we've seen for years, yeah I mean last last week also, we were told by various pundits and strategists that calling out Trump's racism might actually help Trump in the Republicans. But it's clear from the Washington Post piece that a bunch of republican politician and White House aides didn't agree. It begins, of course, with the obvious a very personal account from a White House insider who cares only for the country explaining how Kellyanne Conway was. Very upset, very upset and was like hey? You went too far in Trump's, like I don't understand what did I say, which is like which just goes to show you how racist trump really is Is that it's not. He doesn't even know when it's racism he's just like. Oh,
that's my belief that they should go back to their country. Is that a problem again projecting it in his bones? Racism was grown inside of him. It's a part of him is who he is. I met. You got this whole washing oppose peace to with all these Republicans, strategist donors who are like you know the private we do. Degree or this you know no one wanted to touch it. One of the advisers said no, I wanted to go to him and talk about how this was bad. Lindsey, Graham says is quoted as saying he realized that part of it was not playing well, which is to your point that we're going to skip the moral part of this and go right to the political strategy, and then this was a quote from one of donors who were all upset republican donors. Quote you put your head up and you get it cut off this. Instead and then everyone remembers you weren't loyal when this blows over yeah. Just says so much about the entire fucking republican party. At this point is that, like there's a bunch of people know how wrong this is, but they don't want to be the one to say it's bad, because Trump will punish them like this is this is what happens in authoritarian regime?
right. It's it's a tragedy of the commons. You know no one wants to be the first one to pop their head up, because you know they're, they're, they're, afraid they're gonna get their heads taken off and and actually there correct, they are correct because so few Republicans have been willing to stand up to Trump. Whenever anyone does it trump directs the full force of his and tip it antipathy. Apt am I, and yet that is not an excuse, because First of all when they have decided to say something together, it has in the past matter, we've been through these cycles before the Washington Post in your times have run many of these stories after Trump crosses a new line of the internal deliberations about how upset they were about from crossing this in the new line and none of them knowing how to convince him that he made a mistake. Yeah I mean if you do speak out, he makes you chief of staff for six months and tortures you like previous yeah, you can tell the writers are getting bored in season three, though, because we're also seeing the emergence. A re emergence of the of okay as Savior Narrow yeah, which thank God, for
long ago, which is why we're still in the Paris climate Accord the women's right to choose protected. You know, L g B, T rights are being respected. You know she is delivering on this getting rappers out of jail in Sweden Platform, from the baby or they picked it up. But talk about where Trump in the Republicans plan to go from here. So the post story says quote: like others Graham urged Trump to reframe away from the racist notion at the core of the tweets that only european immigrants or their descendants are entitled to criticize the country advisers wrote new talking points and handed him reams of opposition research on the four congresswoman pivot to patriotism. Focus on. Ideas and behavior, not identity. Some would still see a racist, agenda. The argument went but at least it would not be so explicit. So basically their strategy is don't say that these women of color should leave the country just say that they hate the country is, that is that we're expected to believe that the Republican Party parties
she is here and I presume that that subtlety will not be lossed on the chanting. Hordes of they well, they will trump rally. Attendees know they will. Definitely I mean it's just the idea that Adding to questioning people's patriotism is the goods. Is the more mild criticism now when you know a long time in politics when you started saying that someone hated the country or didn't love the country that in itself would be seen as completely outside the bounds of normal political behavior is is somewhat troubling. I agree it is troubling John, that's a good way to disturb me. This either birth certificate, but it it. It is clear that this is how they want to. This is Heather Publicans want to frame the twenty twenty election if they can't write like they, don't they know it's not popular to do to go as far as Trump went, but they like the fear of elevating these Congresswoman and making the selection about are for Real American, or are you now? But I don't even know if it's that the Lindsey Graham,
Wesley said he said quote. I don't think a somali refugee embracing Trump would be asked to go back and, and quote so they're not asking if you're, american or not they're, asking if you're a republican or not, if you're republican, then you're on their team in your okay and then anyone else can't say what they think or believe and and like what they're, trying to what they're trying to say is: yes, you have to be republican to be ex the Republican to be a real american. Exactly- and this is where I get a little frustrated with the press, because this craving strategy to pivot away from and pretend you didn't say something races has been laid bare in the Washington Post and it's obvious from all the tweets and all the comments from his supporters and reporting will fall into this frame and become bloodless again in the moral and be like well, how is it playing in Wisconsin or whatever state? And it drives me crazy right well, because the in the Washington Post story? We're basically being told that we are being lied to all the time by these people like this this whole veneer that all the Republicans have have put up about how like? Oh, it's, not really racist, it's about all the comments these congresswoman made mobile. We know
That's a lie because we see these stories and we see Trump's tweets like they are bull us yeah. We we now we he did, they did introduce the idea of the real reason that they are so upset is because of several old comments by Elon Omar from month. That that is actually what is been driving. This entire thing is just a lie: it's just the largest alliance. It's it's retconning to explain what he did before and there's too many people willing to go on with it, because either they they want to, because it's better for them because they have their own equities and see a lot of value in attacking Ilhan Omar themselves. Yeah, and you know that they're not feeling great about their argument when they send out there too big, as boot lickers to the Sunday shows. So you add Steven Miller and Mercedes Schlapp, who would just say, or do anything Donald Trump told them. Rudy Giuliani is still in his somewhere. We haven't seen him range trying to take yeah. I got a he's, got a man he's got a he's, got a he's, got a!
magnifying glass and a fingerprint duster he's in Kiev I thought, when you said two things a good time and they're gonna say MIKE Pence to who is also on the Sunday shows and was asked for you with interviewed over the weekend and asked about chance at the rally and he's like, I think, if it, and again he may say some yeah that about was in credible. That's the other thing too, is we're about to he's going to do another rally. I find it very hard to believe that trump supporters who Are just as aware as us as to what Trump really cares about and wants wants them to do I do not believe that they have taken the message of the past. Is it going to stop shouting shouting center back now? That's right! So let's talk about the democratic response. Over the weekend, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez said quote: the president's policies are not about immigration there about ethnicity and racism, and this sentiment was reflected in a great piece by Greg Sargent, the washing
because over the weekend who wrote quote it's now an arguable. The trump's overall immigration agenda is shaped around the broader goal of preventing as many people as possible from getting asylum and refugee status here, even if they qualify for on the merits. It's also arguable the underlying that is the goal of dramatically reducing the number of immigrants admitted to this country and is Trump's. Own rhetoric has repeatedly confirmed. This is inescapably about reducing the number of non white immigrants here. So how should this link between Trump's racist statements and his broader policy goals shape the democratic response? Is this a fight I need to have or do we think that you know like a lot of pundits and suggested we have to sort of pivot away from this to talk about broader economic issues in healthcare in all the way I agree with everything Greg wrote and I think it's indisputable, that the ultimate goal is to have no refugees. No asylum seekers know anyone that isn't currently living here or of white european descent coming to this country. I think the democratic
here should be to pivot to impeachment immediately. There is no deal like the deal with that converted, I'm resecured impeachment advocate, but I just think that we, I have a fight where the media is re, litigating like whether this is or not or whether you know some comment that was made by democratic member of Congress ten years ago. I want to start litigating his crimes. All the things he's on and said, and his corruption also knowing that it drives some fucking crazy and then he'll continue to lash out and make it about himself, and I think that's the train where we end up winning love. What do you think? what is he also, I think, put in broader context about you know this is what he beat the please about immigration. This is his agenda. Here's our agenda right, it's a more humana, it's a humanitarian and reasonable immigration system, but it's also action on healthcare. It's action on all these on this host of other issues that just but we said this a million times you you cannot abandon. You know you cannot abandon and argue
about Trump's moral unfitness. His his racism is undermining of our basic tenants as Americans, but you also can abandon a larger argument about how this fits into the policy debates were having you just we have to do both it's the most. You know it's the it's the it's the
the bromide it's obvious, but it has been true. It will continue to be true and no matter what the state, no matter, how these fights unfold, we will always have to do both be honest and and fight him on on the ways he's dividing in attacking the basic ideas of what it means to be an american while not losing the bigger argument that that fits into about why he is dividing people around immigration is because he has no answers not just for up not just for White Americans, but for black Americans for Brown. Aren't yes, no answers for anyone in this country. Yeah I mean, like. I think it's important to understand that trumps, racist tweets as racist comments they they are not taking place in isolation right there's this broader policy agenda attached to it, and I think that, because there's a broader part of policy agenda attached to it specifically around immigration, which is this is mostly about. I don't think I don't think Democrats have the luxury of running from that fight, and we talked about this too. I mean.
While we've been talking about these tweets over the last couple weeks, they announced the Trump administration wants to accept zero refugees. Next year zero we saw that they tried to end asylum for anyone coming in through Mexico seeking asylum. Just today it was announced that they want to have expedited full expanded to everywhere in the United States, not just a hundred miles from the border and also affecting anyone, not here for at least two years as opposed to two so, and I believe that's actually the more serious part of this, because the you know the one mile zone actually includes huge portions of America already, but this idea of you get stopped on the street and you need to immediately yes, your documentation, including two to years or you could be just removed from the country without
without the intervention of a porch is terrifying to be here, and I want to be clear whether I want to fight those policies to the greatest extent possible, but I don't think we should ever be silent in the face of his nativism or racism or nationalism. I think, though, that for the national media Narative, we need to go on offense and start taking it back to who he is a human being. The corruption the crime the policies and and just create a narrative of our own, or else we will just be whipped around. I completely agree with that. I think in the short term. That's absolutely right! This is partly a question about for the long term for the for the democratic candidates in twenty twenty right, like Trump is going to do this a million times between now and the election November, and I still I am still concerned that and love it talk talked about this long time for a long time now the Democrats don't have a positive. Forward looking message of their own on immigration and that it's always either we want to end moms, inhumane immigration policies and when they attack
say? Oh, no we're not for open borders, but we don't exactly say what we are for. You know and I think on you know, in the last democratic debate, there was a lot of talk about like decriminalizing. The border and health care for undocumented immigrants, both of which are extremely unpopular policies. There's a new poll out today about and yet that same poll shows that citizenship documented immigrants, which is where you know, which is what Democrats have been pushing for a long time, would make a huge difference in the lives of undocumented immigrants in this country. Is it sixty four percent approval people think it's one of the best new ideas So, like I do think Democrats have to be able to have a message on immigration that says we want and trump seeming policies. We policies. We want to make sure we give citizenship to the people in this country for a long time were undocumented immigrants, but by the way, yes, we we do walk. If, if you come here and you come here by crossing the border as an unauthorized immigrant crossing the border. We will send you back. You know, after we've.
Already legalized. Eleven million people here like we do need to see people at all. You don't need to do all this stuff just to please Republicans, it's not about pleasing but it's about letting Americans know exactly what our immigration agenda is Other Mereka brought you by blue apron. Nothing says summer. Finally, here, like a classic juicy burger whipping up a fresh tomato salsa or sharing a delicious meal, Al Fresco this season, resco experience the joy of cooking, something new, I knew you techniques and making cooking fun again with blue apron. You know I was invited to a wedding that I recently rsvp to that said. The I tire was alfresco formal, it's not my brother's wedding, isn't it as I was Al Fresco form of well? What are we even talking about no way out go lower, mall, hey! I did because I did read imitation closely.
I want to get ahead of this one I'd like the record to reflect the fact that I did get a tear to invite but hand, and I cannot make it because we have a previous engagement to family matter. So joyful one, what are you going to do with your alfresco formal? Well, I don't know I think, I'd like to pick up the clothes just to kind of feel like I have to sit in you put that word, alfresco the. Guess what I'm wearing beach clothes I mean. That's probably going to happen. Tell with an ever changing mix of meat, fish and vegetarian recipes to choose from it'll, be your tastiest summer. Yet blue apron has exposed me to do recipes. I wouldn't have thought to try or shut up about it. There's literally no recipes. I would have thought to try 'cause, I'm bad at this, with blue The hard parts are done for me: cooking, isn't a burden anymore. In fact, it's actually fun to learn new kitchen skills with each meal. Blue apron July recipes include seared chicken and pea
also salmon and avocado rice bowls and fresh basil, fettuccine interesting, those all sound great with blue apron, I actually have time to cook a delicious wholesome meal. Instead of relying on take out blue apron's test kitchen menu uses unique specialty ingredients to bring chef quality recipes to your dinner table Chef design recipes include amazing, specialty, sauces and premium ingredient plans that would otherwise be difficult, expensive or time consuming ours to source or make the test. Kitchen's whole goal is to make their mark sensible, exciting and delicious than ever love. It I was talking to John yesterday and he said yeah I mean I've been cooking. A lot more like. Oh, that's great. Like what did you make it like? Well, we made breakfast this morning on Sunday, but their home, skews, Maine again yeah, usually usually I'm when I meet love it at a diner somewhere yeah. That's we have our breakfasts and August we're going to a child, but yeah Emily did make eggs and bacon avocado on the side mount. You know it was simple but delicious as bragging,
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On topics ranging from the intelligence failure before the iraqi war to the economics of John Maynard Keynes is tweeting about cricket this weekend. So we've got a wide. I clicked Dick, while the rain it's right. There lot of taste get twelve weeks for just six dollars regularly twelve dollars, plus the new Yorker Tote bag, which is the highlight home, deliver The print edition each week, unlimited access to New Yorker dot com with ten to fifteen exclusive site, only stories everyday and access to the app's online archives, crossword puzzle and more that's good deal get twelve weeks. The new Yorker for just six dollars, plus the exclusive tote, go to New Yorker dot com. Slash stricken listener safe, fifty percent off when they enter the code cricket all right. Let's talk about two thousand and twenty over the last few days. Times and NBC have both published pieces by Nate, Cohn and Dave Wasserman, arguing that Trump could
an even greater electoral college advantage than he did in twenty. Sixteen last time, Donald Trump lost the popular vote by two point: one percent, but walked away with three hundred and six electoral votes. In this time Cone argues that Trump could win re election while losing the popular vote by as much as five percent. He also says that the president's advantage could grow, in further in a high turnout election which could increase the democratic candidates margin in states like California, or get us closer than ever in a state like Texas, while doing almost nothing to help us in must win states that are dominated by Non college. Educated white voters like was it's in Michigan and Pennsylvania guys. What was your take away from these cheery pieces, the worst thing is that in a long time I didn't like it. Thank you for making me read it even more in depth and talk about it. I know it's seriously intensely scary, I mean, I think, maybe we need like a swear jar for polling where
are we in all our listeners every time you go deep on a pole or read an article about it. You donate one dollar to the Unifier Dice Fund so that we feel some agency and like our ability to shape things like we can win this election. We can shape these events, but there are some structural disadvantages we have in terms of demographics in terms of electoral college and all the states where they put in place the toughest voter suppression tactics yeah, but yeah love. It yeah a reminder. You know if you has people, if you ask people was Trump, a fluke, a black swan event that no one could have ultimately seen coming or was Trump's victory, though perhaps unlikely the culmination of a huge number of of of forces in our politics, cultural, social, political, electoral. I think most people would obviously agree with the latter phrasing of that, and then you say
well, how many of those dynamics have fundamentally shifted since two thousand? And sixteen? I don't think we'd say very many, and I think these kinds of polls are reminder that the dynamics we saw play out before are still in play today or like in the economy. At least the your view of how the economy is doing is getting better In fact, he's benefiting is so. The reason is, these studies are particularly worrisome. Is so New York Times estimated Trump's approval rating among people who voted in the twenty eighteen midterm. So we do have an election to look at right and this approval they estimated is more accurate than your average pole because they matched it with actual election results right. So this is a very accurate view of Trump's approval rating in the states, at least for the people who actually went to the polls and voted in twenty eighteen and we also know that from all the other polls since twenty that the approval rating hasn't really changed much since then, so it's pretty static. So the Good NEWS is that, according to these prove
things. Trump is currently under water he's under fifty in states that total three hundred and ten electoral votes. So that's good news. It's possible set timing, but in many states that we need it's really close. So in Wisconsin his approval is forty. Seven percent and a reminder that we won the governor's race there by a point in twenty eighteen and Zona? It was forty, eight point, nine percent and we won the race there. By about two points and the I mention Arizona in Wisconsin is basically, if you look at the map, if we take back Michigan and Pennsylvania in twenty twenty, which is somewhat likely,
because in Michigan Pennsylvania in twenty eighteen. We want Democrats won by a really good margin in Trump's approval rating is at like forty, four four thousand five hundred and forty six, so it is there's a good, not definite, but there's a good chance. We take back Michigan Pennsylvania. You guarantee that he did on the pot. Jon Favreau says we will win so you put in you get you do Hillary States, Michigan and Pennsylvania, and that is not enough to win the electoral college, which means that you definitely need Wisconsin. If you lose Wisconsin the next most likely state is Arizona, and maybe also just another way to put what you're saying is if we won Wisconsin. Quite likely. We have also won Michigan and Pennsylvania. However, based on what we're seeing now, it is possible to win Pennsylvania and Michigan while that's right, and I think the important thing here is take a look at national polls and you can look at them for responses on issues to understand how the whole country view something, but in terms of horse race for the Electoral College, for twenty twenty
just fucking throw away your national polls 'cause. They are garbage, throw in the trash. Remember that there's fifty million people in California that are kind of tipping the balance here and then convince some friends to move them It mean really. This thing is going to probably come down to Arizona and Wisconsin, and their two states are very interesting too, because in Wisconsin, You have a little bit of a lower approval rating for Trump, but is is Nate suggest in the article. Boosting turnout in Wisconsin may also boost the turn out of Non college, educated white voters, of which there are too many, in state compared to Pennsylvania in Michigan, and so when everyone says, oh, our coalition can just be people of color
not among African Americans and Latinos, and then college educated white voters natcher carry us through in Michigan and Pennsylvania they're. Probably enough of those voters to do that in Wisconsin, it's really tough right, like Tammy Baldwin, right, very progressive, Senator L g b t why the few LGBT senators very progressive for Medicare for all she won Wisconsin by eleven points in twenty eight, and that means that she won a load of Obama Trump voters, a lot of non college, educated white voters. So this idea that the only way to win over those voters is to somehow trim our sails and like change our positions and moderate ourselves, what necessarily true, but it also means that we can't write those voters off. We can't just sit here and say oh no. We can have a coalition of people of Color College, educated white voters and and young people and then non voters- and that's it like that's just that math is not correct in the state- was gone. It's it's correct. If you want to win, the popular vote is not correct. If you want to win the popular vote and the White House, we just we said this many
you said this many times. It is a combination of inspiration and persuasion. We have to do both one one that I just been thinking about. As I looked at a lot of these polls, you know there was. There was one poll that aggregated a ton of data and it looked at a subset. Of people. They were more evenly divided between Trump and Clinton and actually a lot went to third party candidates in twenty sixteen. They voted. Fifty voted fifty eight percent for Democrats in the midterms, and these are people that give from a slight approval on the economy yeah, but are somewhat disapproving of his conduct. As president, and in part they and they point to his conduct his tweets, his childishness, though he's undermined our reputation in the world and What what I thought when I saw that, as I think sometimes we combine two kinds of moderates and I think it might actually be helpful to split them in half and we talk a lot about people that are culturally pro trump
yeah and that are being hurt by his economic policies, but there's another group of people that actually find trump repellent but actually find some of his policy he's appealing and I think, sometimes around the economy around the economy, at least his stewardship of the average of the con man. I don't like his tax cut and they don't like the health care health care position. There were they. Yes, those are awful, but in the economy overall, there like okay, yes, and they are sympathetic around trade and a large leave you the economy in part because of what Democrats and Republicans are set for decades. That's something the president is responsible for all. That is, of saying the job for Democrats is really really hard and it's it's both about showing people who might be sympathetic to Trump, actually actually hurting them every single day, while also making the case that we're making all the time about how reprehensible and unfit trump is for office. It's it's a really really difficult task that conduct. Response in that poll is why, again, I do think that impeachment proceedings, a lot better time than passing a bunch of message, bills out of the house that no one will ever hear of care about
relevant in their own lives, because it will highlight all things they, like least about him and very likely lead him to do a whole bunch more stuff that they will also find unsavory and frustrating on presidential. That's we as Democrats, who aren't serving in the House of Representatives I wonder why we aren't, or the National Party isn't spending all this time registering voters in Milwaukee Madison and then the entire state of Arizona, because that feels like the whole ball game like Florida might be lost, and that's not just demographic changes I think like Trump has been running. A very Miami Dade focused presidency right he is he's doing all this outreach to jewish voters he's done this huge. Venezuela play their running tons of digital ads at our target on these issues down there like, I think we need to step up our game a little bit as a
big time in Florida and we're lucky that Inter Gillam is working his off to register bunch of voters there, but Florida demographically you're right time it should. It is been very close and it should be moving towards us, but it's not is that something is very weird about Florida. In Wisconsin, you know up Tom presidencies became a chair of the. Nancy has been like obsessively focused on was gone, yeah right, because I'm a walk and he's been they've investing a lot of resources there and we've got the convention there and our friend Ben Wiggler obviously of Moveon is now the up party chair in Wisconsin so and bend. If you, if you look on twitter bends and trying to raise money for this constant, Emma Credit Party, which would be a a good use of your money to donate their because upon port was content is and how Really similar efforts are underway in Arizona, but I do think those two states love. It actually represent the two different types of swing. Voters that you're talking about right- and this is the difference between the northern
the ground state of Wisconsin Michigan Pennsylvania, of which there are many Obama, Trump Voters Non College, educated, white voters and demographic change is not really hitting those states as fast as it is some of the Sun belt States like Arizona to access in Georgia which are moving towards us, but we're in a weird moment where the Sunbelt states have not moved towards the Democrats faster than the mid western battleground states in the n are starting to move away from the Democrats, so we're in this tough spot right, like Texas and maybe forty eight years from now very well, because a Democrat for change increase. Turn out could very well be a democratic state and that changes the ball game, but do still have in America. Then yeah do we still have a lecture about to say, like man right when we're about right when Texas turns Blue, that's right, we're going elections are worth having and also this exact same converse. She was being had about Texas ten years ago, yeah. I know and waiting on this for awhile Lucy at the football, but that, but the really tough part for Democrats is is
straddling the line between these voters, who are you know mostly located in the sunbelt dates, who are a little bit more moderate on economic issues, very culturally, progressive, so open to Democrats. These are some of like they were never Trump, Republicans that used to be independent these before the public and party they have been driven out by Trump's, behavior and corruption alike and stuff and they're open to Democrats. So that's one group, but then you have another group up in in the in Wisconsin, who are you know economically populist and probably like Medicare for all infrastructure and all the things that were cut to talking about, but are more culturally conservative on immigration? and they they did vote for Obama, so it's not like they are race It's beyond belief here and we shouldn't say that, but like they they're open to Democrats, some of them and they are not as they are not as persuade by the arguments around Trump's of moral unfitness on are too sympathetic to the to the
immigration arguments that he's been leveling against Democrats for a long time and we had it and we all need- and we need both of those voters. We don't need all of both groups of them, but we need some of both groups and and by the way that does not mean you know. We've also said that you have to do that. This is why it's so hard you to do. That also inspiring the millions of young people, yeah and college educated voters and voters of color who need a champion and deserve a champion out of time in which the president is an avowed racist in which our institutions are under threat, in which the present is exacerbating systemic injustice in every way that he possibly can. So you know, I think we we are focusing on these voters, you need to persuade, but what we've also talked about for such a long time. To do that, while also not presuming your coalition will be there for you for even one second, because that's also a mistake that was made in two thousand and sixteen you got that democratic candidate.
Next nominee, you gotten cakewalk, you gotta, get more voters than them and the right player in a bunch of flicking states that add up to two hundred and seventy. This is basically what we're describing is the part of the film entrapment where Catherine Zeta Jones has to move through the laser beams to get to the fucking, safe or paint I don't remember what movie entrapment starring Sean Connery, Connery and Catherine Zeta Jones. What where is it remember that remember the crawling through the lasers yeah I do, and I don't you know me, I don't watch any movies. Alright, when we come back I love its interview with Adam. Of the Atlantic, the smart Papa Murphy's Rochester According to studies, just over ten percent of break ins are planned beforehand. The rest are spur of the moment: crimes of opportunity, crimes of passion. In other words random
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What? What more can we say about cash up display? A lot of people have heard literally hundreds of cash at pads, and if, by now we have miss you. What more do you need to know? More, do you need to know? Let us know tell us what you need to know: what great organization haven't we partnered with that? That's a good idea: well, already. We demanded that, let us know somebody asked for seventeen dollars and seventy six cents because they purchased six hundred pen, but I'm not doing refunds beside you said you liked. It took a turn there. I thought it was going to be patriotic. It wasn't sorry, sorry anyway, twelve you download the catch up and get a friend to download it. Let's get this going joining us on the part he is a staff writer for the Atlantic. Right covers politics, his most recent pieces titled. What Americans do now will define us forever and everybody should go. Read it server, welcome back to the show, thanks for having me, so you spent the last few years trying to explain.
In the historical and ideological presidents that made a Trump presidency possible, but in taking stock of a crowd, urged by the President's own words chanting, sender back. You said America has not been here before. What, in your mind, makes this moment different? I don't think that we've ever seen a president and income did president use their moral authority to hold up as an object of hate, a particular person, and uhm it. I'm a woman of color refugee uh, just minority as an object of hate in this way and in a way that encourages the american people to view. Our other Americans who share those trades as somehow a danger to the republic. It's certainly something that the president would hear a lot on Fox NEWS in particular from Tucker Carlson's show. But it's it's not. Something I don't think, we've ever seen a president- do before that's in part, because
Didn't really have a multi racial democracy in the United States until about one thousand nine hundred and sixty five, but it's also pretty unprecedented. He traditionally presidents have sought. To I mean put politicians are such a benefit from that idea, without personally, directing it right. I mean what makes it such a dangerous escalation that what we have is not just say a president benefit from a southern strategy from sort of spading and whisper campaigns smear campaigns and and an attack ads that use racial grievance and a president saying it out loud in front of millions of people there twitter in front of a crowd. Well, I think what makes particularly dangerous, is you know the cornerstone multiracial democracy. Is that you know
all as American as everybody else being in. Why does it make you more american than someone who is hispanic, or black or or ending Christian, doesn't make you more american than someone who is jewish and the president is actually saying with these attacks that acts, the only way to be authentically american is to be a white person who supports Donald Trump, and I think that that is particularly danger. Because again it encourages way white Americans to view their country. Men as people who are fundamentally conditionally american and I don't have a legitimate claim to the polity and that can lead to all sorts of other things. All sorts of other, both ideological and policy conclusions are that are dangerous. For example, we saw recently the president did you lie to the Supreme Court in order to provide cover for a census, question that was uh
mentally. We learned designed to diminish the political influence of voters of color and enhance the the the voting power of white voters for the purpose of allowing Publicans to maintain their hold on power, even if they're, not winning a majority of the actual votes, of Trump's back and forth over the past few days about whether or not to embrace or reject the chant. It seems as though there were some pressure from Republicans? There was a Washington Post piece in which it seemed like A lot of people inside the White House wanted to make clear that they didn't like what Trump said. Whether or not that's true be seen, but but Trump did at for There seem to want to disavow parts of it, and then he walked that back. What do you make of the pressure means not shame. So it's some form of pressure. That's causing him to want to sort straddle the line between embracing it and not embracing it. What I'll, say a couple things one is that the chant was based on his own words.
No actual way for him to disavow it. The other thing is: is that Republicans have quietly, you know run to reporters to tell everybody how brilliant the presidents racially device strategy is which is essentially to call this strategy. Shrewd is to give him full moral responsibility for waging a racist campaign against for legislators in the hopes of win. Over white people or what more white voters The thing I would say is that you know historically people who want to exclude non white people from the polity or discriminate against non white people typically frame um. There Decisiones it anyway, so as to make them the real victims of prejudice or the so uh victims of
an abuse of power. So you know, after the civil war, the vice president of the confederacy, who gave a long speech about how tion of slavery and the fact that the white man, superior to the black man was the cornerstone of their society after the civil war he's locked up in jail he's writing his diary, and he says you know that was totally fake use the reporter made it up no, I don't have anything wrong it. I don't have anything against black people in this war was not about slavery. Similarly the redeemers who overthrew the reconstruction governments. They claim fighting the tyranny of of negro and carpetbagger. Rule in the 1950s and 60s when Jim Crow was being dismantled, white people who ported segregation, cast it the federal, as a fascist force, much much much like Nazi Germany, so this inversion of who is actually being discriminated against is a fairly common reaction from people whose Ultima
policy goal is to exclude non white people from the privilege. Have american citizenship if they have a right to so. Let's talk the response from the press from Democrats to what Trump did in your piece. You had criticism for both take each. You mentioned this weekend that you agreed with crooked editor in chief Brian Beutler, that it's the job of reporters to bear witness faithfully. What does that? What does that look like to you. I mean imagine, it means telling the truth about what's happening. Even and power is trying to convince you. Otherwise, you know something that there was a dispute towards the end, the Bush administration over whether to call waterboarding torture, because that was essentially not about whether or not waterboarding was actually torture. It was about the fact that the Bush administration was contesting. The definition of waterboarding is torture, because they didn't want to admit that they were torturing people now with the this is chance, it you see something
I like go back, is literally textbook racism. It's referred to by the equal opportunity. Employment commission is like a textbook version of racism. To say. Well, we this is racist or is racist or racially charged, a racially tinged is to concede to power, a disability to create controversy around facts when there actually is no controversy. What, when I'm, echoing Brian's admonition to to bear witness faithfully. Referring to is not concede to power the ability to create can't mercy where none should exist, and then on the Democrats you know everyone should read the piece, but I do want to read one passage, because I think it was particularly devastating Democrats hold the house and they're not holding trump back. The president has better for an attack on american democracy. He has obstructed justice. He is bound to turn federal law enforcement on his political enemies, their squalid camps, border where families are being separated and children are being sexually assaulted. Their existence justified as a necessary response to a foreign invasion
Trump has sought to rig american democracy in favor of white voters and refused to recognize the Oversight Authority of Congress and our sales. The cornerstone principle. Of multi racial democracy, that none of us is more american than any other. If the Democrats convince themselves that anything they do to attack the president risk alienating white voters who believe the can belongs only to them, and they will be partially responsible for the path that country is taking what, in your mind, with democratic leadership that meets this moment it? What actions would that entail uhm, I think it would entail more rigorously fighting the administration in terms of calling witnesses and turning in terms of subpoenaing documents in terms of pursuing investigations, but it would also entail a more rigorous defense of the Princip multiracial democracy against the President. I believe Pelo response. After that, all these tweets was I said what I'm going to say it, I'm not going to say anything else. I mean that is the Marco Rubio approached presidential tweets, it
sufficient. The United States is someone who simply does not believe in the principles of mulch. Racial democracy that have guided this country since one thousand nine hundred and sixty five. That is an existential threat to those of us, whose american ness might reasonably be questioned under a regime that states that only white Christians are real Americans. Hi in the Democratic Party cannot exist without those, humans and should be doing a much more forceful job of defending them. So it seems that Can you pull back from specific moment specific moments to offer review to, to speak, to speak more forcefully against the president seems that there is a kind of feeling that damn in Congress, are not fulfilling the mission that voters sent them on in twenty eighteen. That seems to be informing a lot of the internal democratic fights between the squad, as we now call them. An The leadership that seems to be informing
the criticism of the way leaders like so in Schumer and people like Jerry Nadler have responded to Trump's you laughing at the face of efforts to hold him accountable Do you believe that there is pressure that can be brought to bear that could get Democrats in the house kind of to step up to this fight in a bigger way? To kind of rise to this moment. Do you believe that there there are steps that people listening could take to help push these leaders to kind of meet the moment? Yeah I mean look. I think that, if, if Democrats given that seem to be convinced that they're going to lose a big middle if they confront the president more forcefully, but if people want to persuade them that that is not the case, they can certainly do so through time tested ways of persuading
leaders are just writing letters calling in X at our Xterra, I'm not advocating that people do that. But if people want to do that- and that is that you know I mean Congress. People talk all the time about the way that influences their decisions. I think in general with the Democrats have to worry about, is the idea that, if they're not actually going to do anything with the power that people give them that you know their voters might decide that it's not real worth it to keep them in office, so also seen now Democrats have now held members of the administration in contempt. There are subpoenas are being scoffed at we. Only control in house. There's a concern that if we were to say pursue impeachment that ultimately it would lead to Nothing in there for is not worth doing, is part of this, just a natural consequence of Democrats, just not having enough power Much of this is Democrats not step and how much of it is just the, notations of the power Democrats currently have well I'll, say a couple things
It is only now that they are beginning to hold people in contempt that there really be stepping up this legal fight over the subpoenas. This is stuff should have been done along time ago and would have been done along time ago if the parties were reversed. The second thing is that opening and peach an inquiry doesn't actually compel you to pursue impeach it does put the house on greater legal footing with certain things it does create in a bill need to rest. The media narrative from a president whose stated political strategy is to flood the zone with share, as as one of his strategist put it on. So you know he's the Democrats are passing these messaging bills in the hopes that they can show the country what you know. The work that they're doing but the country isn't hearing about it because all they hearing about every day is the Trump show and that's location of the taking all the oxygen is something that I don't think. Democrats really appreciate the extent to which it blocks out the.
Positive message that they are trying to build, as in alternative to the president they have to yeah It's one thing to be an alternative party. It's another thing to be an opposition party, and I don't think that the Democratic Party has been doing a very good job of the latter. So just today, there is news that it seems the press is looking to change immigration enforcement so that those who have been in the country for less than two years can be more easily deported and not just if they are within one hundred miles of the border, but any in the country. You know the press is matching his rhetoric with actions, whether it's the treatment of people crossing the border or interior enforcement. Are democrats, is the. Is the media doing enough to connect the rhetoric which manages to cap? our attention more than the policies or do with the actual implementation of the of the kind of
right of the of the of the White Nationalist agenda- yeah. Look, I mean I think that the president's rhetoric I mean one of the one of the problems is that that people have sort of condition to think of racism as naughty words and The president offers a lot of naughty words. People you know might let's see the ways in which that plays out in the implementation of the president's policy agenda. But you can see it in his approach to immigration. He you know his canceling of of of temporary status for hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants who were brought to the: U S as children, his treatment of it in his treatment Puerto Rico. In the aftermath of Hurricane Maria, in the family separation policy, which is a policy of systemic child abuse designed to deter illegal immigration, you can see it in the conditions of the. Border facilities, which are directly the result of trump decisions made that because-
be held longer than they're supposed to be held you You can see it in the president's approach to police brutality, the lack of enforcement of Americans constitutional rights from the Justice Department, particularly civil rights division. I mean but there is one consistent moral an ideological principle that the president has upheld throughout time in office? It's the idea that white. People are more american than other people in and have it entitlement both to political and cultural power, the rest of us simply do not have so one question- and I want to make a crass I wanna make crass political argument that you that Nothing here that you see that you see in response to this conversation about Trump on race and I'm just curious what you sponsor too, and the argument would go something like I agree with everything your saying, I believe Donald Trump is a fundamental threat to american values in american democracy. That's why the single most important thing we can do as a country is defeat him in twenty twenty.
I am worried that folks sing on Trump's racial grievances is going to cause a replay of twenty teen and we will run up the score in the cosmopolitan verse, educated parts of America. Once again falling behind in whiter, rust, belt states and other states were trump over performed, and These conversations ultimately don't help us that immigration conversations were down to his benefit. As As I agree with you as much as I am terrified by Trump's, meaning of racial animus and hatred and his dividing the country and his attacks on the rule of law. This is steak because it may ultimately help him be reelected. What is in response to that? Well, I'm not a political strategy, I can't tell anybody how to win elections, but I do understand something. Our morality and if your voters Your constituency is that people who put you in office are under attack in there.
Mental rights are under attack in a direct way by a president, and you refuse to stand up to them. What you are communicating to those very same trump voters is that Trump is correct. You are Julie, seating. The argument that that the president is making you know it's one thing to say: we shouldn't take unpopular positions on immigration. It's the thing to say we should not We got it all when the President makes these kinds of white nationalist arguments, because people might like it. That's fundamentally political cowardice, Adam server. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me thanks, Adam for joining us today, and you know, talk to you later in the week you got Ethan Leavitt once a month, but but but but but but but but but game news. All right. We're talking a big little lies at spoil
love it or leave it, but I just want to say that I watch the family with you and, let's all just face facts up big little lies transition to ally. Mcbeal is now complete. I five report. It is complete. It is not just Ally Mcbeal, it happens, now. That's why I called that's good news by.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-07.