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“Trump’s secret Chinese bank account.”


Trump whines about the rules, moderator, and topics in advance of the final presidential debate. Democrats inch closer to a Senate majority. Dan and Jon discuss what you can do about tightening polls, and answer some of your questions. Then disinformation expert Jiore Craig talks to Dan about how to handle right-wing smears in the final weeks of this election.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Are you the I'm talking to you election day is November? Third, which is the last possible data cast your ballot in the most important election of our lifetime? Do you have a plan to vote if not go to vote, save America dot com, slash the state you live in. So if you live in Massachusetts and voting Erica Dotcom, Slash Massachusetts is Rhode. Island, Rhode, island is one word if you need some help jogging, your memory for where you live, go to of America COM, Slash states, to make sure you know your voting options and then cast your ballot honour before November? Third, let's do this? Let's win get your ass to the polls The presenting spots are pod. Save America is zip recruiter. This election season, we ve been through a lot of debates, whether official or just on Twitter so in the spirit of finding the right candidate for the right role, which POD save America host would be the best debate moderator I think since then,
give us doing this add I think the answer is Dan. I guess Santana there's one thing: you know they say the best of eight moderators disk peer into the role that A house something's will always be debatable, when it comes to foster an easier hiring, there's nothing to debate. The clear choice is the procurator and right now you can try it for free is a precursor dotcom. Such crooked, zip recruiter doesn't work for you, but how? First, when you put the jobs of recruiter it get sent out to over a hundred job sites? Next zip recruiters matching technology skins, thousands of residues in profiles to identify the most qualified people for your job. If you really interested in a candidate, you can even invite them to apply for your job with one click. Zipper critter, send them an email from you and you stand out from the competition. No wonder for five employer supposed to job on the procurator get equality candidate within the first debt. Try it out for free and separated dot com such cricket when you try it for free
We all win, what I wanna tagline once again that zipper critter Dotcom, slash credit with covered? Is there anything that you think you could have done differently if you had a mulligan or a do over on one aspect of of the way handle it. What would it be not much Welcome the to MECCA. I'm John Favour Andean Pfeiffer. On today's POD Dan talks with disinflation expert Eureka, about how you can handle all the bullshit. The trumpet Republicans will throw us in a final two weeks of the election before that will take over the strategy heading into the final presidential debate, the fight for the Senate and what's keeping the two of us up at night? Besides, everything is all giving us up
speaking of the debate. Come watch with us on our crooked media group threat at cricket dot, com debate, the fun starts at nine p, DOT M Eastern six, p, DOT M Pacific on Thursday night October, 22nd last group. Three also check out. The latest I see the world or Tommy Ben break down what we know about the connection between foreign disinformation and the new post reporting about Hunter Biden? Russia's proposal to extend the new start treaty- Sudan taken off the state sponsored terrorism list in their conversation with a journalist, has been covering the political unrest in Belarus. Finally, and votes in Amerika we ve made it super easy to find remote and in person volunteer opportunities with our new volunteer hub. You can find it it votes of America. Dotcom slash, volunteer, find everything you need from your usual phone and text banks, two roles, delivering yard signs or staffing vote,
protection hotlines, we got it all so their votes in Amerika TAT comes. I volunteered to find all your options to get involved between now and election day. Do not wake up the day after election day and wish. You did more. Do it all in these last two weeks, less than two weeks now high, Let's get to the news. The second and final presidential debate, thank God, will take place tomorrow, night in Nashville, NBC Kristen welcome. The moderator has chosen the following topics: fighting covert nineteen american Emily's race in America, climate change, national security and leadership. After President trot The last debate young, like a maniac for ninety minutes, the debate, commissioners added to mute the microphone of the candidate who isn't speaking for the first two minutes at the beginning of each new segment, the rest of the time they can do it what both campaigns agree to the new rules, though Donald Trump in his campaign have spent the entire week whining about the day.
commission, the moderator, the rules and the topics they wanted. This debate to be focused exclusively on foreign policy, so Dan both campaigns agreed long ago that each moderator would be free to pick the topics. What do you think of the topics that christian wealth are selected and why did that campaign want a foreign policy debate so badly. Why mean, in fairness to trump he's a world out, There's a lot of where the world, though there is a lot of really detailed foreign policy issues from around the world, some things that by you- and I are talking about Tommy and Ben- are constantly talking about the trumpet like an opportunity to speak about, and these topic focusing on the other endemic duration. Recognising the melting of the planet, don't allow me ever you talk about the Abraham occur sir, whatever their called as much as he would please separately
He knows all about the unrest in Belarus S up at night, as these are the kind of topics that he wants to cover. No it's about fucking, Ukraine in China and Hunter. By That's why you wanted a foreign policy debate and he does not want to talk about his failure to control a pandemic. He doesn't want to talk about the fact that he does believe and climate change, as the planet is on fire, he doesn't want, talk about race, because the last time you did that he endorsed white supremacy until the problem is to stand by our stand up or whatever? So these are not devote. The problem for tromp is both in this cars that another debate, Our election is that the issues that are most relevant voters are not the ones who feels least comfortable talking about and that you know so he could possibly could have hidden at very like intricate in depth esoteric foreign policy debate, but that's not what he's gonna get well he's. Also he is a right wing, nationalist demagogues and for right wing nationals. Demagogues. Foreign policy is a great subject area to Denmark
other countries right like Donald Trump, with love, nothing more than to get up there for ninety minutes and say the rest of the world hates me, because I stood up to all the countries that are taking advantage of us. Joe Biden is a global issue. Straight, doesn't care about the? U S, he cares about the rest of the world, just look at his side and Ukraine and choice in oh. By the way he voted for the war in Iraq and have always been a good I've been against everything in foreign policy that the american people don't like, and for everything that you do. That's the only this. It's like the perfect opportunity for Trump to act like a demagogic on foreign policy, including the campaign knows this, and so they complain because they want to protect the president from getting questions about covered nineteen, which is just so for heating. these are safe space. He's a snowflake needs us airspace. A disorder speak too how difficult a political position he's images tromp does it know shit about foreign policy but he could write Vinos less over a any other topic when he would rather talk about that, because it feels more disconnected from his bigger political problems.
like in a normal world. This, like Joe Biden autonomy for about a year that there was a huge part of it in present, he was sure the Foreign Affairs committee. He knows a lot about it, tribunals almost thing and that would, in a normal world, feel very threatening to the Yahoo does who doesn't know much, but because he so vulnerable and the other stuff. That is a safer place to be right, Is it really is a frying pan fires or a situation except after all, this it may not be a safer place for him, and you know one of the topics as national security, and so surely you note trumps plan the Trump campaigns planet telegraph. This thought the mega media's all over this. They want to talk about China right They want to do this story on China is that apparently, Hunter Biden had business dealings in China right they want to somehow connected to Joe Biden, even though we know that
Biden has never made any money off. China ever had any business dealings with China, because Joe Biden has released all of his tax returns right, but anyway, so they want to draw connections anyway, muddy up the waters. The problem is New York. Last night cuz. That was the story. Guess who has a secret bank account in China Donald Trump? The guy has meant he is present United States as president. He has maintained a secret chinese bank account and he has paid more in Thai, is to China to the chinese communist government. Then he has to the United States government. That is where Donald Trump is right now compared to Joe Biden, son, who had some in his dealings in China, oh and by the way his daughter, his entire family, are making money China and have continued to make money of China. while there in the White House the Chinese by gathering is a big deal right I mean to have so he is it's a secret chinese bank out joy of which he was
an unusually large sum of money in two thousand. Seventeen after becoming president might two dozen. Seventy right, that's press! the aid it s, not a private citizen who was president state withdrawing huge sums of money from his secret is spreading out Wanna, just one make sure clear on that, but we don't even need the secret chinese bank account because the chinese government has been handing out business rivers to revoke tromp like like their Oprah at the holidays for four years now, every time they want to make trademarked EU trademarked Eu Ets. He's more votes on this. Because of this most recent story. Massive recently bias in secrecy, biased as its secret bank account. Then we discovered it's more politically and petrol in the media that the public information we ve. For many years about how China is in favour with the term family, in violation of a whole bunch of laws and codes of ethics. But yet this is not a super safe space. You are correct, so Trump is called
We welcome a terrible, unfair radical Democrat who's been quote screaming questions at me for a long time. This is literally just a few weeks after trumpet Visor Jason Miller told Fox NEWS that he has a quote very high opinion of welcome and thought quote she's to do an excellent job as the moderator what changed, and why is tat Tagging the moderator now after his campaign, thought that you would be a great moderator. What hey it is much What trumps as industrial in this election is reviewed engineering reasons for failure, like you, he's probably do poorly and so he's gotta start at the beginning. By saying it's everyone's against me right, it's not my fault, I'm a fucking moron is everyone else's thought, and this is.
about male validating, it's about problems with a pandemic is this. It is all part of the same strategy, which is he just wants to explain why he's about to do poorly, so he can feel better about himself in his supporters can feel better about supporting him. I also think it's about working the rafts right because now, like you know he has spent in the campaign, is spent in the Maghreb media has spent the last two weeks saying Kristen workers gonna be unfair. Those fucking assholes than your position even call themselves journalists. One of them was You know treating a picture of the fact that Greece and worker, like I've, got a picture of President Obama. The White House Holiday Party which, like so did Rupert Murdoch inserted a bunch of the right wing journalists which, accompanied by the way Brok Obama, took a picture with Rupert Murdoch.
I saw that I was like what. Why did you do that of anyway? That's what happens but anyway, so the right wing media is like pushing this storyline about her, and I think their hope is that it gets in her head. So she feels like you know. Maybe she'll still be tough on trumpet. She has to be tough on Joe Biden too. Now I don't know if that will work. I think this unwelcome is an outstanding journalists and shall be a great moderator, but that's they're trying to work there since some times working the rests works with journalists because it gets in their head. He I thinking it like. I said I have no idea how crested personally wars that I am sceptical they're gonna be able to convince other journalists and sort of political camp. There is, more broadly the somehow christian walkers a radical democratic, biased they get strong, but he has played a card of one million times too many. yeah how it affects our only sort of she knows the answer to that. But in terms of I mean the coverage. I don't think success. for we framing the coverage of a poor performance this way, I don't think that is going to work this time.
What do you think about the new rules about meeting the makes that change anything like everything? Elsa Debate, commissioner, did it's fucking stupid, it's just lay I agree. I appreciate your personal jihad against the hangings. As you I appreciate, as you ve known me for many years, I tend to become obsessed disproportionately angry at very strange things, and the debate commissioners wanted just makes me so mad because they could kill, Joe Biden for being so stupid. Right either Donald Trump, you ve never lie just Put your hand up scouts oath. Did you get a test? Don't no need to prevent dumper of it. Just just say you did right. What are you gonna? Do a twenty? Twenty four in Paul Ryan is named the debate missions. I'll be Fuckin Willoughby. So now that we are not all Europe's comeback. He'll be running Fur Senate against Timmy Ball when it was constant and I will be in Wisconsin living on Ben Whistler's culture. We really my fucking parity defeat. That's what are we doing
sorry anyway, back to the rule that rules are done right. It's the weights, the worst of all worlds, which is, as you point out there are six fifteen. sections in this debate- that is most certainly thirty minutes too long. The beginning of each fifty minutes action. Each candidate has two minutes to talk about it. I guess it's orphan opening statement, our general framing of the issue, the mute only works in those first, two minute segments sulphur related- other fifty minutes over more than two thirds of this ninety minute debate, you can just do what you did. Forests are not fully understand what the point if that was like, why are they more likely interrupted the two minutes that, in the short version its do it or don't do it Now you ve given strawberries reason to complain, but you haven't actually empower the moderator to have any real power to do with anything, to control him for the vast majority of the debate, and also we set this after the first debate. Trump can still interrupt all he wants during that two minutes is just his Michael, be off so
can still, he can still be happen over there and getting binds had Bible here and there the the moderate prison well, will hear him. We won't you, but you know we'll be muted, because the makes off, but Trump could still interrupt a lot. The other thing it does is the term campaign has been telling everyone who listen, that their advising the president to interrupt by less and to quote be more likeable and Trump himself has laid out the strategy Tuesday morning on Fox and friends. Here's a clip I cypher, last night on him. He said the president should interrupt less. Will you change your strategy in this last debate from your first debate will, may do that. Actually the interesting thing, but they said if you let him talk, he loses the chain of thought because he's gonzo and I understand that, but I also wonder and it as is going down the line and issuing generally, it's ok to
really attack that. But but there is a chain of thought that data there were a lot of people that they let him talk because he loses his train loses his twenty loses his mind. Frankly, yeah. No, I mean back to that back, I certainly sounds pretty sharp loses chain of thought he loses. There's a chain of thought that says he loses its chain. Is trend, is not all mentally than their male. That Donald Trump. I if so hard when you said that clever rob ass, they just that's up. I add there is no real reason for good there, but I do so as to what the clock I mean, He calls it a chain of five. First wishes so funny and any swimmin any sort of knows. As our strange he loses his critical chain of thought three times in a clip about by losing his train of thought. It answer in that with a shorter than the answers and a bit
It gets bars where he might be vulnerable to exactly what he's worth things Biden is vulnerable to now we're laughing, but this is sort of the source of my fear heading into this debate that somehow, if Donald Trump can just just take it down a few notches, which you know me like it, Donald Trump can give two minute answers. Allow Joe Biden to give committed answers be somewhat more coherent. You know, you'll still, of course, attack Joe Biden on you know. He'll, do the hunter had held to everything else, your column corrupt, but if he can do it, just just a touch less crazy that it in the first debate that the media has set such a low bar for Donald Trump too clear that when he clears it, if he does that any even like you know, draws blood on Biden by
like battling him to draw you know by a visas, your corrupt on China and binds as your crept on China to you know, you could see a debate where people so well. Trump was a little more like a ball. He was. He was toned down a little bit more, maybe at maybe this is the night he became president and then you know they score. It is a big when that's that sort of my do worry about everything, fear, but I don't know anything I think it. Easy to imagine a world in which twelve is slightly less of an obvious ass, already last time in the press, points that out and maybe this is what are the trumpet ministers that they why they performance that gives mission to some people are on the fence to come back to tropical people who support it and previously, who may be even more supporting in just a few months ago, prepared down to come back, and maybe that is possible. I am sceptical and I have been wrong before, but I am ethical. That trumps, can we put together some sort of performance that would be seen as a big way. right. It just never put gather coherent nine.
ass hole, we seven and it's in his life, let alone ninety minutes, and so I just I didn't like. best buy can make a mistake and that mistake could become the focus of attention that word I've covers that Britain in really when you think that when we talk of this in the context of what were worried about, but the last two weeks or so of a campaign is basically like us. Incredibly high stakes, advent calendar. We? U like wake up every morning and you but had not been. It's like either gonna be good, for you are bad for you and you want as many those days be good for you at the end and so you have bide, makes a mistake or trumpets give slightly better coverage. That is to his advantage. I also know that there is a game changer performance from like in the cards for tromp yeah. I didn't actually have reported that the term campaign is looking to the twenty. Sixteen third debate for inspiration Did you remember everything that happened in the third debate and twenty succeed? I mean this is how bad mind rip my
collection of twenty succeed. Debates is way before the first debate, a reporter called me. I was like you know in a previous for the first debate. Twenty twenty Chris Wallace was moderator in sixteen eighty receive really high marks for, except for you who was really credit. what happened. I was like no recollection of being critical. Chris was also no recollection. Cresswells moderated abeyance, music Diana and I think the one he moderated was that third debate. I went back and looked at it this morning and. It doesn't seem like trumpeted any better than any other debates in Hillary Clinton, wine, the post debate, Paul's by double digits in all of them, and so I think she won by a little less than she did. The first. Do I remember I remember being at the ringer sitting next to TIM Miller. Did our debate show with us? I remember thinking that, like I'll have the third debate, she like crush it again, what a joke and he's like. I think she didn't do quite as well as the first do, and I think Trump did a little bit better is open
just my god and then and then she lost yeah yeah. I don't think so that you will see that she won that debate. I don't think the reason she lost was because of that debate its everything that happened between that debate. An abortion is a basically between tomorrow Night an election day, as will the whole thing fell apart change to something appear, the difference now is, of course, I think as it this morning. Thirty percent for the term to thirty percent of, delivered. So how should bind respond to all this? Like? Do you think he's prepping for a trump who interrupts less and one who interrupts just as much like, What's Biden strategy here this debate, I imagine they are prepping primarily for the Rob West version because they ve already done the pact for the first version in and I think he knows, and they know the key thing. There is just a logical right that, like was the goal, and I think he did it other than calling the present a cloud which I think was the understatement. Other century that first debate. He
hell, this cool under an incredible amount of fire from Trump. That's what we see he's gonna do the same thing. you know this time. He's gonna probably need If Europe is going to be better behaves that is going to need to have in his pocket and execute while a few more moments right where he has like a set peace draw out the contrast or to transfer covert or something like that. It shows Leslie attention by it's. Gonna have to do more with the time he has said that he had to do in that first debate
yeah, I mean I've always been a huge proponent of binding, just spending the time telling people what he's foreign, what he'll do and what he stands for, and I still think that's incredibly important, but I do think Biden needs the story coming out of the debate to be about trump again and not about Biden what people focus on, and so he needs to keep Trump off balance. He needs a sort of needle trump so that he snaps, but in a way that doesn't look like Biden, is hitting him too hard. I mean I would take if I was Joe Biden, I would just practice be practising three moments right, like his message about Trump. Is that trumpets, an asshole trump has fucked up covered and trumpet for rich people in the middle class right our practice three moments drawing out those three contrasts, something about him being an asshole. Something well covered
think about the economic contrast and just practice those and make sure that I deliver those and then beyond that, just like make sure that I'm talking to folks at home and telling them what I'm gonna do as president, that that would be what I and then in it also of course be prepared. For you know all of trumps, crazy attacks, Hunter China, Ukraine or that bullshit me it so funny, because this is such a giant macro and that this can be seen by seventy million people or something like that. But the provide As you point out, thirty percent of people who work in a vote have already voted the over. People who have to have not voted, have already decided to they're going to vote for. Add there a small sliver it's a big. limited, alter the election in these cross border residents, but of people who were designed, Ruby, job, peepers, Adrian voting and effort, and so How you think about how you reaches people sort of ETA fits in three buckets. There are the people who are watching it in real time, which I think is up freely, small sliver of the seventy million people watching rank as if you are
undecided you're, probably right, you were historically less engaged in politics and a day to day basis and therefore, probably not watching to be like they're. So that's portmanteau people watch live portuguese people who will read the coverage of it now three years. Actually, right by definitely once more coverage that is talks about how bad trumpets like that will help them, as opposed to some because of that kind of your disorders like buying a great answer on the economy. Does not house covered, as winners would laddie, Aigner right and the third? is what are the moments that happen in that debate, that than the bite campaign and other democratic democratic actress will take out and then pay to put in front of people through promotions on social media, digital advertising set our and that's where you bathroom Biden has to find this balance of a culpable moments where he allies is climate plan. He outlines is economic plan. He talks about discovered plan and, like a one, two, three, four or five.
Plan because we know from all the research we seem that the best way to get the way enthusiastic Biden, voters, the the focus on decided is gonna, be teaching them more about bind and less about, and I think the MIKE meeting thing is a gift to bind for those first, two minutes in each of the segments, and I would use not the full two minutes if I was by right, because the Trump campaign is hoping that you know Biden will lose a train of thought or fumble or go on too long. Whatever else like, I would practice one minute answer one minute and twenty second answers on each of those topics and give my rest my time back to the popular it or write like here's moment about covert boom boom boom his army, the kind of boom boom boom like I would not do a lot of rhetoric on out. I would sort of like now that you know you get two minutes to yourself and you know what the six topics are. You just practice the answers right you to say what you mean: that's that's what it
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business daily, national tracking poll? That has vitamin with only a three point Lee that think today is a two point lead of course, overall, five hundred and thirty eight has the average right now still around ten. Do you think the race tightened? Why or why not? I dont know and you can it's. I choose journey. That right is like you can look at some poles from Iowa Joe Biden doing very well. What makes you think this thing? It's really good! You can like another pause. We dont probably doesn't really matter right. and I mean that just like what are we like what we you do with it in for what we do right now what you were going, we like we're going to encourage people to do the same thing. When our binds leaders expanding shrinking right like what can you do you? Can? Voters Eugene tax voters, you can volunteer, you can go to the volunteer hobby of ashes, put out tonight, like that's what you're going to do in knowing like whether the pot like what the pulling out
judges or whether its appointed down a point, that's really not managing your own anxiety, but, like I said, I think we shall be was the way you do the best way to major anxiety is not to find a pull the matrix. but our about yourselves to do some things that give you agency over the outcome. That is true, I will say it is not unusual in the final weeks of a race for some partisans to come back home as they call it, which is so like some republicans who are wavering on Trump, who are undecided like trumpet, maybe think he did a good job in the economy. Maybe they're coming home a little bit, so you might see sometimes like even in the five thirty eight models and the other models like they expect. You know their projection is abiding seven or eight point when
and you know right now, the pulling average there is a ten. So maybe it tightens little bit biology said we don't know. Gabby you're right, like Trump, is pulling in the national pulling averaging somebody's gotta crusades at a number that more than a few points below his twenty. Sixteen. the number- and you just have to assume he's gonna get back to that number now. The problem for him is in a race, with very, very little third party vote yeah, that's not enough to win just in some cases, is pretty clear that the bulk of the undecided universe, a small as it is our people who are more likely to be trump voters and by voters, and so some of those people welcome home to him before this is all over. It's just a quite like that's not really that concern. The question is: is there a broader shift or something else? They can change the outcome of
I know a lot of people are talking about me, no complacency and avoiding complacency. I know you wrote a great message box about this. I have not met any Democrats that are complacent in and no one should look at the poles and feel like. Oh well, these go get a ten point. National leaves everything's fine, like. I do think that when Jan Ramallie Dylan binds campaign manager said the races much closer than the public pull suggests, I dont think all of it was just
trying to avoid complacency right like what what worry I'll tell you. What worries me is Florida and Pennsylvania right, because Florida is really really type and it's been tight for quite a while now and it's unlike the public pulling in Florida does not have a great history. We ve talked before about how and twenty twelve, like, I think, Suffolk said they were gonna, stop pulling Florida because Rami had in the bag, and then we one in twenty ATM Guillaume was up three and a half points in the final averages and lost so the political issues and Grain Florida. It's always very tight one point on either side for the last hour, many races and then, if Biden loses Florida, then he's really depended on making sure that he wins was constant, Michigan and Pennsylvania, and you know he's doing fairly well and was continent Michigan Pennsylvania, it's getting a little closer in the worst part of a pencil.
is if the fucking wait a couple days for a look, Mechlin ballots in Theirs court cases and there's got things and so like you quickly get into a scenario where, if you could see an election night where Trump narrowly wins Florida and now we're waiting a couple days, did you see what happened the Pennsylvania deceived by winds and then you know trumps declaring victory and were up to the racist? So that's what keeps me up a night now we should keep fucking making phone calls and even keep doing all that stuff, because that is. It is real that it has gone. That it could get close, I may work by discrimination makes me himself because its we tell people all the time, ignore the national pause and they do not matter is not an. election, it even matters even less ever with every passing year that the gap between the popular vote and the electoral college grows or sustains. I guess yet, then we always of the Temple easier one. If I thought he'd say this is a ten point, seven, my grandmother who gives a fuck right. What is true is that the
We, the races in the battle round states, are clubs. Biden, has had aids as this. Stained steady lead, but it is closed and you are just a few points shift or a polling her away from it being very, very close and, like you play around with the electoral college. Counselor football bet, you quickly see how I can just scaring that does it, about saying that a panic among the frequent one, just like Jen is right like this right. Like Maybe it breaks our way at the end and, as you know, it was more like a weight or twelve. Maybe it doesnt. We do not know what happens in the next few weeks, both what Biden does and what we will do all help determine which Alchemy
so. We can't do anything about what Paul's come out when and what they say, but trumpet certainly trying to do everything he can to tighten up the race, including abusing its office, he's openly demanding that his attorney general investigators, political opponent, after already being impeached once for demanding that a foreign government investigators, political opponent, he's got house Republicans demanding a special council to investigate the buttons he's, got his intelligence director denying the existence of a counter intelligence investigation into whether the Hunter Biden story is part of a russian operation. Even though the F b I publicly roof. Here's your group at them like how much of this stuff the Trump investigate your opponent bill bar I'll back as to how much of that worries you and the final homestead You know, I think, as we say, we worry about everything, but we don't worry about everything equally and when I, I am not in that very worried. for the context of the election,
are the sudden bill bar announcing an investigation of hundred bioenergy right? This is we all all like our natural instinct, is based on Co. Me Ptsd. To think like this is the thing that ships election, because in the world that absolutely devastating butterfly affects. The call me letter is probably why trumpets president, we can everything it has happened since is Jim COM is felt to be completely practical. add by twenty. Twenty is not only sixteen Joe Biden aside, Hillary Clinton and the simply increasing the say, but billboards knock em coming like we like now For me. Has generated some animosity for many people. Do you know about as the out, but in moments when he did that Jim coming with someone with a during by partisan reputation for the absolute. Higher standards of integrity right. He is the person who, famously while working for a republic, president stood up against that republican president at John,
cross sick bed to prevent that president from putting a place, I ate what he would have been a legal wiretapping program. You don't pointed to the FBI by President Obama like that bill bar is not that right go someone. Who's has a completely damaged historical repetition. And it s hard you a man. I just do not believe that Donald Trump goes on fox and friends in orders. Bill bar to investigate Hunter by for reasons that Donald Trump cannot articulate and then, a few days later, Babar were to do that that that would have a lot of sway with either the press words. I think that, actually, that would be more. Much more damaging for Trump and whenever possibly be thereby there's a little bit of fully. Once with all this. To like its clear, the Trump is trying to you know, recycle the hits from from twenty sixteenth, and of obvious riot. Like oh look, it's another email scandal about my opponent. Oh look! I want. I want another investigation, my opponents, who did something corrupt like what? What a coincidence yet right,
two weeks of an election Donald Trump once of investigators opponent, for corruption because he's losing like well, while I haven't seen that one before, like it's a little bit obvious what he's doing right now- and I do think What I worry about is sort of low information voters, people who are engaged in the news who don't like Donald Trump, aren't sheriff they're gonna vote, yet just starting to hear you know, through their own social networks on Facebook, wherever else like there's something about Joe Biden being corrupt to maiden. Maybe both of them are bad. Maybe I won't vote at all, maybe, although for Joe Jorgensen right like, I do have a little concern about that, and I do think again back to your point of like what can we do about it, and I know that you talked about this with with during the interview, but like I do wonder how volunteers on the phones and abiding campaign should sort of handle these laws
minute tactics by Trump around the whole. You know my opponent is corrupt and should be investigated. Storyline. I think the biggest thing there is we have to achieve motive to what Trop is doing right. No eight explained why he's doing things right? He is here. he means false attacks because he is losing right, like you, like that the thing that we enjoy talks about this Anita view that we put a progressive, cordial here at the end of a spark asked that, though that's one, the most information you do disintegration of the slain why people during these bad actors have engendered? What is that agenda, and you tell that to voters. Voters want are more likely to undertake, then believe it's dysentery in a vain, or why the person is spreading disinformation. I share your concern that people will theirs on a noise it. You know it's him really hard. Storied on government, even air professional dues readers adds its hearts No, like what part you know like what part has been officially debunk, we're part has been denied by the Biden campaign, is just
it is. This is a very, very challenging news environment, as we know just from like getting basin information about the latest information or covert. Is it is very hard to do to get something straight? It gets even harder when you get into a highly polarized political situation like this story. So yeah I got it. That is definitely a concern. There are reasons to be less concerned about it this time than in two thousand sixteen yeah, like it's uh, it's on the worry less like everything else is there. Is there anything else, high on your worry list that we can actually do something about versus things that we just have to worry about quietly well or up, and three o clock in the morning in the middle what I mean, I think we're doing and will continue to encourage people to do the things we need to do to fight like whatever the worry is. The answer is voluntary right. What's voting, for involuntary always try to encourage people. It's not just the vote hearing you do when you sign up at the volunteer harbinger. Do in our colleague, crises like also
Can I use your wife right you're, the people that you know? We all know them HU we want our friends with them, went to college with whom we worked with them when there are cousin who we You know, Push comes to shove. They just might forget to turn in their ballot or not do it. Who are those people and what can we due to make sure that they have a plan d right. You know it. your friend her you who will always sharply to everything I might forget too You are sending money for your march madness, for whenever is like that person go, find those people and go talk to him now my work, He is not. I'm actually nigh hi. We worry about anything that tromp is going to say or do and from the election. I'm worried about what chopper sail to do that could make the pandemic. Worse. make the economy for in a hopefully President Biden, worse just further damage the moral fabric in this country, but my big, concern about the election is that we I really should electoral system in its country. This under funded, is filled with arcane rules. It has
presumption of making voting harder, not easier. Republicans, strain, that system through militia. Suppression was sort of undermine the infrastructure for the purposes of winning elections with a minority of voters in system works poorly in the best of circumstances, right and I dont know how closely you can find the news. But these are not the best circumstances. Her hey like I guess that election is having a pandemic. That can have a moderately vote by most would have, you know will be thinking to be massive turn out in its get us. Rain that system and That's. What I worry about is something that, where some sort of votes are kept so. If you don't get a chance to vote these crazy things with signature matches. Various places word I've loved you have to include now. I have a friend of mine who me after those. In my interview with John Feder, men about the house was in a governance vendor like what are you telling people about voting it by male voting in person and logistic over said trust, the poles?
send Senor ballot in early, but because of Pennsylvania laws, if was, if you requested a male ballot, anyone in person. You have to bring all of the male about with you to do it. If you don't you re feeling, provisional and my friend was lake, is that true everywhere, because as I would you do, I gotta Milborough, like as a backup and I said I was gonna voted, but I was gonna government person and I was like good furtive Mariano, like that's. What worries me to a huge percentage of Americans are going to be voting for the first time, using a different method of voting and in an enormous percentage of Democrats.
Civically, are going to do that. So, like seventy plus per cent of our vote, the democratic vote could come through the mail and that's a lot of people to use it for the very first time. So that's what freaks we want, and we can do something about that, like you said, which is to encourage everyone, our life to make her, they have a plan to vote to know exactly what they need to do to make sure there ballot counts wherever they live, and two fucking get those ballots and like every one cent in your bout, take fill out your ballot, send it in today and, like I know, the most people is in those probably already done that, like you said, pick five people in your life to go at say that too, to descend your mouth male ballot in today, because I worry about people like waken up on election day and some of these states don't count ballots that are delivered after election day. Some of these wing states- and some do Now these with the court battles are four but like forget about that. Just send it in today. tomorrow right. Let's do it now, because I think the Earl Are you send it in the earlier everyone else in the balance and the the lower the chances are that there's gonna be all kinds of shenanigans at the
I think that's exactly that. That is exactly right and it is like if and when we were in. The selection of one of the things that have to be an absolute priority is fixing voting in America that, in that is the Jean Louis Voting Rights ACT or we're gonna put, you know, do all night, for we should also think that's also funding our elections in changing the presumption because really leg, worse, our brain is so broke in voting Britain, broke, my Republicans there All these signature match laws. These naked envelope saying thing all of that is based on the site that we are concerns about a tiny fraction of possibly but unlikely fraudulent votes. They were going to throw, a bunch of clay, legitimate rights right, and that is a camp, the completely the opposite way of thinking absurd and its.
and it's very problematic and that's the thing that worries me about the selection. Let's over the Senate Map we're Democrats are currently favoured to win a majority. The party which currently has forty seven seats is trying to protect incumbent senators, Gary Peters, in Michigan and dug Jones. An alibi, and then flip republican seats in Colorado, Arizona, Main North Carolina. I or Georgia Montana Texas, Kansas South Carolina, maybe even Alaska, We only need a net gain of three seats. If Biden wins the presidency, which would mean that a vice president calmly Harris can break any fifty. Fifty tie currently pulls out democratic candidates ahead by pretty healthy margins in Arizona in Colorado, a decent in Maine, smaller margins in North Carolina Iowa, and neither tied or slightly behind everywhere else, Dan, which these races do. You feel best about cholera yeah seems like AIDS is open it yeah the republican sort of stop spending money in Colorado. They live, leaving Corey gardener, outed, hang out
either. It seems that way he has, which is exactly the coroner deserves and were, but it's a bluest of those states It is also one where the concerns that I have about how the action. Machinery are less relevant because I been a by male states since twenty fourteen, so they're doing this People how right or very exact, like they voted two years ago in two years before that etc, but it seems, like he's, probably contacting lobbied firms, are linked in right now, trying to figure out what is next move this or the debate commission or the debate Actually what we actually one of the rules that debate, commissioner, you have to have not worked in politics for at least three decades, so he's yesterday s seventy five years. What's what waves with North Carolina. It appears that Cow Cunningham's very boring texts with a woman that wasn't his wife, I haven't changed. His small led overtime, tell us, but so tight rest
It's a leg. I did a fundraiser for cow earlier this week you today, I am someone's my state of adopted I've done a bunch of things for them and they asked if I would do to the sun rays. Rooms like right after he had raised. Like thirty eight billion dollars, it ever was like that, like I'm having to do something, but is there like something other than money, and they point out to me the disconnect north Given the most expensive Senate race in history, a quarter of a million dollars would be spent batteries court. a billion dollars, yes, that's it seems, like this can be. Writing can be very close to us, has mostly been underperforming trump throughout this process, and I think the trend we seen among some of it, some of the other vulnerable republican centres. We can talk about by its Gonna, be very close. Cow has been well positioned since then. the big issue is the pandemic and healthcare and to This is sort of the worst of all worlds like this. Is it a story? Cow tells him compatriots thing is fascinating. Is that number one
the emergency decoration and he was gonna take money. to pay from the wall? Tell us. We do not bear the washing oppose saying that calling I'll try not to do it: and everything is a big. There is a common military budget. North Carolina has a bunch of military bases. They're going to suffer might relate to culture was it until I voted for it. So You tell us, as are the legitimate, tells us on the Judiciary Committee helping I say that not every Medica expression, after a huge issue, there have been hit very hard by the pandemic. Anthills is right now, helping put some extreme corridor, will kick hundreds of thousands of north Romanians, author Healthcare and deny millions and billions this editions coverage, so that seems like there is. There is ain't. There is a lot to talk about to drive. The conversation is gonna finish it out.
Hence my question that raises, if Trump X it out North Carolina, it will be because he served Joost Republican turn out in a lot of rural areas and if he gets people out to vote, who would have otherwise come out for tell us today. Just check check, check the box for tell us along with Trump, even though they didn't really like. Tell us that much just Caesar Republican yeah me that's a question. It's interesting as you also recoup are running for reelection there and he is pulling while about ITALY and a strong place, and so it's gonna be there's gotta, be some second spinning happening there so to be interesting and. As of this far cow husbandry better with republican voters than even by in cases, so you don't want to see if that hold city at and how about Iowa, it seems that in the last few weeks, Teresa Greenfield has opened up a three to five point: eight over Joanie Ernst, after a debate in which the republic didn't know the price of soya beans in Iowa, even if Greenfield nailed the price of cars that are used
amazing debate moment an eye. So I worked in number of GPS and South Dakota over the years and it is the one thing you do before you walking out of bed. Is you check the price of corn and soya and hogs adds cattle. You make sure you get it. It's like the most standard, basic blocking and tackling the bay problem, because it for the upper Midwest, it's the equivalent of what's the price of a carton of milk and people have failed that before so the fact the juniors did not know that it seem flummoxed even get. The question is such a perfectly awesome. Failure on her part. Its aim is interesting because you know down from one I will buy nine points and twenty sixteen and I don't think many people thought about it as part of a competitive sate. This time around. You know, there's a Monmouth pull out this morning, which is a very high quality Paul. They showed by with a lead- and I was very small, led Greenfield it
lead. I think it's interesting wondering why I may be shifting like this is. This is a state where covert has hit really hard recently and there's a lot of older voters and the monopolies shows Biden with a big we'd among older voters in Iowa, and I do wonder if in states like Iowa and was content where the the outbreak is really bad right now, if that is what of driving some of the shift towards binding among the electorate, specifically among seniors you, I think I think, that's very, very possible. That is one of the things that is tied. Some of these did midwestern western CS. older voters hit hard by the panda back, and that is Trans greatest weakness right as you see that repeatedly that the greatest concern these ultra vires have as its failure to handle a pandemic, and so I think that, as you know, a problem for was very widely states than we thought would be more
firstly in his column or not questions. So we get a lesser question about the Georgia Senate. Special election autumn asks can, explain why there are still two republican candidates discussed in that race justly well know there are two centuries in Georgia. The first is the regularly scheduled race in which democratic, John S office running tied or slightly behind income Republican David Purdue. The second is a special to fill the remainder of Johnny Isaacson term, who retire early and was replaced. By republican Kelly Laughter who was appointed by the governor LA floors. facing two strong challenges, one from Reverend Raphia Warnock, a Democrat and another from republican congressmen, Doug Collins. If no candidate gets over fifty percent of the vote, the top to go to a run off the telled sometime. This follow winter after the election. Currently Warnock is leading both leffler, an Collins were splitting the republican vote. So what do you think about this waste and can Warnock get over fifty on election day? And if he does
how're his chances in a run off. The answer is yes, I would have thought. The answer was very, very close to know a few weeks ago we had these conversations. You know within forty metres retard Now, in a word, it functions ETA, races, and there is this sort of sense that maybe like deal with the Georgia run off after election day, but one I can consolidate. The vote has proved to be so and if there is a very strong performance at the top of the ticket in Georgia he very well could eke out and if he does that, that would be great. I would have thought that was possible future ago by consolidated: support from other candidates and he's within striking distance, and what is the what's? The difference between an electorate and run off versus now like? Is that what you think they'll be hard Yes, I think, would be harder, it's not impossible because you don't get the turn out that you get in a president. Yes, I mean higher turn out in a state like Georgia is better for Democrats and you're going
you're not going to get anywhere near as high turnout, of course, and run off? It happens a few weeks after the most important election and history now you just don't know like what is the mood of voters right does by Wayne and Republicans or depressed, and don't turn out right There is also a possibility. We don't really know what it is, but I would say your best chance is to win it right now. Still, I think it's all possibility Jordan moving in the right direction, but it's a there's a lot of unknowns in what the political environment looks like other than we know to be lower turn out, and that is generally less good for us. Statewide in Georgia. Become more listener. Questions Gina hi guys the other day, you were hoping Updike Jones, what is Joneses race mean for other is in Alabama. I wouldn't think that Alabama would be in play for buying and it's never talked about it this Wednesday. So for Jones too, are you saying that people will go into the voting booth and vote for Trump and Jones are either example of similar situations in other states in the past, when this kind of thing has happened,
Yes, I'll give you an example would be highly had camp in North Korea and twenty twelve. Ronnie ran away with that state and highly high cap of one a very close race is boy you? It does happen, divergences of very clear appeal to a broad ideological election of others like like. As we said, we talked about this. It is not easy for democratic in Alabama at any time, let alone the presidential. Your bed, If someone can do- and I think documents as the profile- because he is someone who has appealed to independent, moderate and somebody matters, but also really excites the black community. In Alabama right. That is a very unique political resin
what is just, how did you get one or the other and he has capacity both, which is how he one in twenty seventeen and why he could possibly pulls off again. My favorite example of this is in Wisconsin and twenty eighteen, where Tony favours the governor. Their sort of like eked out a little over one point went against Scott Walker, Tammy Baldwin, who is a very progressive
Senator beat her opponent by double digits in the same year, which means that there are a bunch of people. Budget was concentrates, who pulled the lever for Scott Walker and Tammy Baldwin like it happens all the time, and I think if you pay close attention to politics, sometimes you think that voters are either like democratic partisans, republican partisans or like independent, split right down the middle, and that is not the case. Like voters are complex, they have different preferences. Sometimes they like our democratic candidate and republican candidate in the same year, who are completely on opposite sides of the spectrum, but maybe they like the per I mean like you. Just voters are very complex. There. Motivations are complex and its. It is bad for all of us to just assume that people are going to be split evenly between as as partisans right like if Joe by
wins this election, it will be because a bunch of people who voted for Donald Trump decided to change their mind and vote for Joe Biden happens. You know last question: Amelia asks a vote North Carolina neighbour, question about general election adds who makes voting and based on ads. If you're not voting on policy alone, I e, if you do not strictly adhere to a particular party platform than how do these adds change your mind. All ads are going to portray. There can be no positive, biased way and voters and swing states are going to see as from both campaign. So how does one or the other convincing undecided voter I'm going to ask the star of campaign experts react The answer this question at so embarrassed by everything which has meant a recent Marietta inherited telephone smash that subscribe. Yes, do sashes. As Robin, I don't think we should think about particular presidential campaign, one individual ad winning or losing election of one individual had persuading a voter. Voters are
serve surfing political news in conversation there see in their facebook either to hearing from their friends. They are going in other flipping through the channels of the news, and they see them and they say they want to be in. It is all a peace that creates an impression of who the can It is what they say and for what they would do presidential elections. You know when we have actual rod, demagogues ride of the hack on tap on campaign. Experts react he made before they think is really important. Witches in racist, they get very little political coverage and attention ads are incredibly. Consequently, the only thing you ever know about your congressional candid is something you saw the television right you you may not and if you may never see a new story about them, you don't you ve, never met badly, not seen interview with them, presidential election. Is it sort of icing on the cake in it? There were. The cake has to work for the icy network, and so It matters in what the reason why you you end up in these, you know ever ascending arms races of spending. Is you don't?
I want to see to your opponent the ability to shape that conversation with out some sort of response, and so we keeps going it like it's definitely on the margins in. It seems strange to spend so four billion dollars,
it's gonna matter on the margins for the caught. The stakes are so high that you're not going to see that territory. Also, the psychology of advertising can be really subtle. Right, there's a reason that companies in all over the world have spent billions and billions of dollars on advertising and marketing. Since the dawn of time. Right like me, you could be just like you could be one of these sort of less engaged voters, not sure if you're going about still undecided, unlike you know, there's something in the background where there's a their job, I'm mad with sort of some nice music and makes you have a good feeling, and you like guides, sir, do like back right, like you and even admit this to yourself, but like subconsciously, advertising can work on you. It has worked on consumers for decades for centuries. So, like you do you know when I do think like, as we close just a big, I mean the ads from the Biden Kim,
pain and democratic groups or progressive groups in general. I think you know win or lose. This race have been some of the best I've seen in years. Yeah. I think that's deathly right. There has been some really really really good at the by giving his time at a really great job with it. I think way to think about advertising, that's like sort of Nord out it is some advertising is like what you were thinking of his direct response right, like I'm, going to tell you about a product, I want you to go get that product in the next time. You leave your hole where the next time you pick up your phone right. That's like author. What fast food advertising is right. Like man, I was law the pizza right now and we order. Then there is the See burger go, get it right and then there's brand advertising right, which may you try to change how you feel about a company or a product, and if our in its products did you may by once, every three years like a car or an Iphone? This is really what apple does right in political advertising. Chicken present raises Royce at a brand evidence, break it shaping your impression
along with all the other information you have about that candidate You know. I think it's like. I said I think it brought it does not matter. As much as people who hold you to chose, probably say it does, but it does matter and if you don't execute it well, you can be in a really troubling situation and I do think to your point about the brand. I think the brand that sort of all the Biden ads and the other group ads are shaping is one of calm competence, unity, verses chaos with Donald Trump. That seems to be what all the ads are sort of pointing to what they're trying to make people feel this sense of like we can have a more unified calmer country. Then this shit and usually the negative ads or about Trump saying, crazy, stuff and you know miss handling the pay
Denmark and the economy in all his other stuff. So it is, you do get a theme from all of the advertising we scenes of AIDS. A theme consistent with by right, like the like outline interview, a lion debate performance, seems consistency to have this. It would have been one of trumps problems. This is added up. I don't seem at all connected to the person who is button in terms adds about himself, don't seem at all connected to the trump we see right. You can not too. If you every one than you are selling a great phone, and it is a shitty phone. The ads are going to work. There eventually gonna get the thought, and that is this: it that's the bin, the prom for dropping mine, camping, like you, said, win or lose these events and very, very good at well. When we come back, we'll have dance interview with disinformation expert jury, Craig Positive, Mary, is broadly by policy genius. It hell
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Launch a site promoting the work of Alice Elisabeth, none she's, a film accuracy, best known for her role as large Marge in Peace fig adventure, as per last add I dont think. Please answer. Syria lies and she's right. You gotta follow law issues. Also Mommy Dearest Camper run. Amok Johnny got his gun all kinds of movies. I never heard of this is a very it's a very it's a very meagre website, but I do think I do think it would. It would draw some. Louis foretell refreshing. Then, why hang on I differ website what, if there was a website where you can find all the information you needed about voting and register I'm getting out. The vote volunteering in raising money for good causes in politics. What if we called it? Ok
possible what have we called it votes have America Dotcom, allow it if we, what if we gave you block party to see, what's gonna, be on their ballot on the website, and so they could fill out their ballot with all the information about all the races and ballot measures that they were going to say when that people look at her. having something, and I bet you can build. It was squares base, which is, which is why we're doing this add you check out squares based outcome. Such cricket for free trial, ready to launch use the offer code crooked to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain Joy, Craig as the Vice President Jijiu, are political research firm in an expert on better disinformation dish infrastructure and public opinion research. we're coming passive marketing for having me. I want to start like it the most basic level we ve been talking about this information, misinformation, foreign interference, This for the last four years here. Why is this? information and how's it using the campaign and whose, using it shirt so disinformation and
information that used to harm or confused or mislead, usually its false made up information. Sometimes it has a colonel of truth but the point as the intent behind it is to confuse mislead distract it's different from misinformation, which has just misinforming information, that's false, but you didn't mean for it to be false. So, right now some people might share information trying to help people vote. It might be slightly off cause they're states different than someone else and state. That's misinformation. That's a different, that's a different bogging thinking about disinformation. I like to think of it as influence campaigns. These are influenced campaigns. Their disinformation is one tactic that they use in every case there trying to influence us to do something offline, take some sort. Offline action, and so what are you saying in this cycle right here in twenty? Twenty, that concerning and in the realm of disinformation.
And the answer, maybe everything so here I mean, there's a lot going on. In my you know, one of the things I specialize in his because my background is an international work. I was sort of brought in to talk about the threat of foreign state actor disinformation upon looking, looking around the far bigger problem is the domestic disinformation that we're seeing being pushed by bad actors at home, and I think one of the most turning things icy in that idea with. Is that one of the goals better there's have no matter what their pushing is to try to get us to share their message to try to bypass credible sourcing so we are the ones moving their message around, and so one thing that's concerning to me sometimes, is that our space, somehow reaction and trying to say hey, that's all we're moving those messages for them, and so that's one thing backing is really important in these final days and weeks, leading up to the election, and that were mindful of when we see something that we think is not true that were concerned about that? We don't accidently, make it worse
How do we end up making it worse, and how do we what's the right step to take that doesn't make it worse? Individual, our Emma person, who is on Facebook or twitter, and I see something that appears be this information of some kind. What should I do to handle that in a way that actually makes things better? Not worse? Sharks are first things. First, take a deep breath, slow down, I think I'll. Let you know Twitter especially makes us act reach we, you know, asked questions really quick slowdown. Make sure your reaction is actually going to move that into morphine before you know anything about it? Next step is useless something that you know is false. That you know is problematic. It should there's something in your mind. I've come up with the ratio, five to one forever one time you see something that you think is problematic. Think, ok, that's five more times. I need to get what is true out there to the people that matter and to the people,
matter is really important. There's about twenty four percent of Americans on Twitter, a lot of us are more informed, were paying attention we're moving quickly. A lot of the people who are susceptible to the attacks are indifferent spaces online there on Facebook there on Instagram therein whatsapp threads, and so for every one time. You see something false think yourself, that's five times. I need to reach out to those people who are actually susceptible to this attack with. What's true, consider what sources they would believe. So, not the sources, I believe, but this. Says that I think would be attractive to them, so maybe a local source, maybe AP, and instead of repeating the lie when you're communicating to them say hey. Did you hear this lie, whilst not true? Instead start with the truth start with the. Formation you wanna, get out there in the motive of the messenger cause remember. This is all a con. The victim of this information is the voter, and so all of
that actors, whoever they are their misleading, the voter and so talk about the motives they have for distracting with whatever narrative they're putting out there and then reaffirm you know with embassy, why you think it's not true how you check your sources and how you can help them together get through. The noise that's gonna, be put out there in the election day on election day. What are you saying from the social media platforms in terms of the efforts that they are taking to deal with this information? So this is media companies, have taken a lot of action recently, really the final our. However, we really spent a whole year, begging them asking them to do more. You know they allowed medical distant. permission to flourish in the year we had a pandemic. They Facebook failed their civil rights. Ought it in the year that we had one of the biggest you know, movements to try to fight for criminal justice reform injustice and so it shouldn't, be forgotten that, even though they took these dramatic actions really close to the election,
are not enough. They have a very long history of inconsistent policy enforcement, and so you know we have to work with them. They have a huge audience. There are a lot of people on their platform, so we work closely with them to try to The best we can, but we don't have a lot of faith that they will enact their policies as quickly as they should and even as their outlined as written on on their websites, are some of the steps are taken, making things worse, not better. Yes in them, cases. I mean it's a double edged sword, so in some big one, as they said that they were to no longer allow new political adds to come from anyone in the final weak, leading up to the election. That disproportionately hurts Democrats that disproportionately hurts groups with smaller
We know that that actors on the right in particular, have a huge ability to get massive organic reach on Facebook, even though those same publishers have been docked and broken facebook rules and they should be getting penalised for that they're not and so what actions we take in that final weak, it's more than just you, know, liking and sharing, because, that's a good idea. It's really going to make up for that deficit where we won't be spending money, unpaid adds, we won't be spending money on new GEO Tv heads, of course also be running, but there won't be anything new. Should something come up, should a narrative change, and so our efforts are organic. Efforts are really going to make the difference there. One things are platforms have done, is to try to disable sharing of disinformation and the sort of to the forefront, lass. I guess it's us weak, but time has no meaning any more. When the new post published a story that many people believe is part of a disinformation plot about a laptop, the mayor, monopolize honour by
and both Facebook and twitter disable. The sharing of that story had what was your view of how they handle that it was that productive counterproductive. What does that tell you about what happened next to it, why are we don't know? What's gonna happen over the next two weeks? We know that the right is gonna continue to throw them things out there. Trying to get mainstream sources, try to get twitter or try to get those folks to pick up their story, move it bore them. I think that the platforms action things that were falls there lies they break the policies. They violate those things that things we ve been asking for, not from a partisan standpoint all year, really from a this is affecting voters. This hurts voters ability to make decisions. I think some people talk about Hey will was their backlash, because then people could insurance
really the primary thing that my work deals with. Is people spending too much sharing the bad too much sharing and trying to debunk and actually moving that information around. Remember a lot of the bad actors, including a lot of the conspiracy work. That's already been done this year is to create distrust. In the messengers who are trying to debunk and so in a way, even though efforts are really well intentioned a lot of time, some of those messengers who are debunking- that's all part of their their hope in so you know, I think it's great that the platforms enforced there, girls at an they should have been doing this all along. It was very stark and for people haven't been doing it all along, but I wish this would have been happening all you know. This is up, comes more challenging in situations where there is not just a quasi major me our work in your approach, but also a lot of information comes directly from the mouth and a twitter feed at the present United States
I think we as Democrats have done exactly what you are telling us not to do, which is what can we spread it by yelling about right, like other specific different strategies that you think we should use in dealing with misinformation coming directly from in the present ice age or major political figure like that. Yet, though, the president United States? We know he likes you life and because the price United States he's gonna cross that tipping point threshold. We know we tell people, hey, look at region and pack who has it reached and what impact is that having before you determine whether its appropriate to respond he's got a lotta reach and he's got a lot of. I guess impact and so it is ok to acknowledge the fact that he's lying all the time, but when you do so, instead of leading with what he said, instead of sharing what He said, share and lead with and have the thing that you want people move,
around the internet to be the true information or the call out on his motives for pushing the lie he's pushing at any given moment. You know, if you know remembering they really do rely on our pick up. They think about what will get us riled up. What will get us moving things around, and so you see something repeat: double down for every one time tramp lies you ve, gotta, get what's real out there, five times as much, you gotta go to the spaces where the susceptible voters are. If that's Facebook, if that's you know damning folks, whatever you have to do, it really should trigger that kind of response instead of hay, and when I read the retreat this, to my mind
followers and we're all gonna talk about how horrible it is, and then unfortunately, one thing that's problematic, with the fact that there are twenty four percent of people on Twitter and those people are disproportionately people who are politically engaged. Is that sometimes the conversation moves on there and they forget to go? Do the work with the people and the other platforms. Another spaces cause. That's not their preferred area of you know proselytizing, but it's really important that we turn mega funds to the voters who need it most in these final two weeks you don't we, I think people, probably you know. I love us and you do about this. Information were very worried just about how this election would play itself out. Has it I'd better or worse than you expected in terms of disinformation, in the end, the amount of it out there and then how all the various players, social, media platforms, mainstream media outlets. Other politicians have responded to that. The volume
About what I would expect the grotesque content, that's pushed by bad actors is as well as I expect it. They have not done anything that has surprised me. They ve not done anything that I'm saying, while they really up their game. This is pretty much playbook. You know looking at countries around the world and how this information affects them. They certainly are sophisticated in cross channel all attempts to push their message across all different channels, we're we're not paying attention, but that hasn't surprise me. I have been encouraged by the ecosystems reaction to some of us no longer just amplifying in you know, you're saying you were bad headlines covering either characterised attacks on Senator Harris or
is false, narratives in general, but we are still seeing mistakes to and I will say you know. I think that people cannot resist the urge to talk about the sexy story and how bad it is and how wrong it is and how false that is- and you know that's That'S- takes- oxygen, and so then what you're not getting out there is what's right. What's true, what information to voters need? What information should they be considering whether in the ballot box and our accidental attempt to debunk sometimes and making it worse, as your noting at noticing, is a theme in what I say it sort of the whole. It's the whole deal, because when we look at what reactions people have in how they take their narratives and move them into means remind it can't be done. Our help, and so that so, when it's moving in it always with our with our assistance, we think we're doing the right thing and murderous making it worse. Basically, me sometimes I mean anything
another thing is, I remember uniting with, for example, the space just started talking about conspiracies over the past few months, so that may be gives the impression that those conspiracies have just arrived. In the past few months they haven't, and so a lot of the work we think we're like okay, great we're going to do we're going to get the word out. A lot of the impact of the conspiracies was was already done before we arrived to the final month out and, of course, you want to get information out there. You want to make sure people understand what's true and that these conspiracies are just a distraction from both important issues in the election. It also sort of the whole conversation is out of sync with where a lot of Americans are in terms of when they heard this information, what they thought about it and sometimes that can be problematic when, when there's only so much oxygen to take up ahead of the election, you ve done a lot of work to do. As you said, the Borgo, your work as overseas. Do we and all this worse
ass badly or better than other countries around the world, and if it's worth is a reason why you think that is an arrogant handle this in a different way, and I would say that I think some of the systems we have set up where we have a lot of our campaign, leans, really silos from one another. You know we ve got a lot of consultants, doing fundraising, alot of consulting suing media. We have come separate from and separate from field and on the campaigns abroad. Everything is a little bit more integrated and so everybody's on board, with understanding hey when something appears.
We're all gonna be measuring reach an impact in the same way and therefore things don't raise blood pressure as quickly. I think here because of the disconnect, because different lanes aren't talking to one another, it's easier for someone to say hey. This is going on and other millions not know how to interpret it in overreact. I think more integration between departments would be really helpful. I think the amount of money we have in our system does not help because there's so much money for there to be so many specific lanes, but if we can integrate that a little bit better, I think it would be a think it would be useful if the other thing that country's abroad do differently is here were really big. Country have got a lot of states,
like you, have a lot of interested parties in the elections and everybody kind of does their own thing. The internet has no borders, social media has no border, and so, if you're, not looking at the narrative and networks and how they interact with one another, you can miss things and so establishing what those baselines are up front for the different categories of different disinformation topics. The different bad actors is really helpful, so you can very quickly understand what you're up against virtue of dozens fastened it. How does or does our media handle it better or the same? Yes, though, Media around the world is struggling with this. I think that I thought more about media and journalism than I thought I would would in my career because of the relationship it has with decision
Nation! I'd say that the media is better in some ways, because it's a little bit less insatiable. I think our media has become you know, everything's breaking news, no matter what I think, there's a little bit more discernment around the world but they're having the same problems, bad actors everywhere or trying to break down trust in media, and so that's a playbook, that's being run everywhere. You know, you're, seeing in the Philippines, people are losing their media licence there being destroyed on social media, that's breaking down, and then the people, the bad actors, the dictators who are doing that still have a really high approval rating. So this is certainly a challenge. Media groups are facing all over the world. I think that ours have more money and in a more of a stage, and you, know more of a willingness or pressured to have the breaking news, so we might be a little bit worse on and how bad we're making the problem interests will join. Thank you. So much for taking the time to talk to us about this is fascinating
equal parts alarming and maybe hopeful, because you offer some real strategies on what we can do about it both in these next couple weeks. But it does this promise not going away even at this election. So thank you so much in Gaza everything. Thank you so much based joy for joining us today. We will see you guys tomorrow, night Thursday night for the debate will be on group thread. Go to cricket outcomes, launch debate to hang out with us on a Friday morning. All four of us will be doing our posted API, So I took it up thanks. Everyone, pod save America is a cricket media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is your mauler, its mixed in edited by Andrew. Kyle. Someone is our sound engineer. Things too.
You so many to Katy, long, Roman, Papa, Dimitrios Quinn, Louis Brian, several Caroline rest and analyse a good year for production support into our digital team, Eliza Cone, Normal Conan yell Freed, and my look him film and upload these episodes as videos. Every week.
Transcript generated on 2020-10-21.