Chaffetz and O’Reilly take extended vacations, Ossoff heads to a runoff, and the 2018 map looks bluer. Then, Governor Deval Patrick sits down with Jon and Dan to talk politics and the future of the Democratic Party, and Ana Marie Cox joins to ponder the Case of the Missing Aircraft Carrier.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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there you go there, you go,
Save America. I'm John FAB Room, I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On the plus. Today, in studio, we will have the former two term, governor of Massachusetts, Deval Patrick, very excited about that
and later will be joined by the host of with friends like these Anna, Marie Cox Course. First,
Please subscribe to all of our pods on pod save the world this week, tummy tucks to good friend,
the pod, Denis Mcdonough, former White House, chief of staff, the great episode and to
Ro Friday in Austin TX,
there's a live version of love it or leave it and love it will be joined by
Beto O'Rourke, who will be running against TED Cruz in Texas. So that should be a fun show land
in the polls and tied in the polls right now,
according to the one random Mediapolis will take it. You know we're not going to pay attention to polls anymore, except pulls that we like uhm, yes cash,
about love. It sure
our concern that he's going to leave the group and go solo.
It was more or less of a concern. More of just an expectation.
Any any are yeah I mean I just you know. I've expected that this is a this is the whole thing is for it. Well, he'll be he'll, be here later
I'm sure he'll bust into this interview at some point anyway. Ok, what what a week ten
we had a whole list of things to talk about. We still do, but it's funny again. I woke up this morning. The first thing I thought of about up this morning was that picture of
Donald Trump in the oval office, flanked by Sarah Palin Kid Rock and TED Nugent.
Basis, TED Nugent, who called for the hanging of Obama and Hillary now he's in the White House. That's great great. I was like, and I looked at the pictures like I don't want talking talk about this, but here
but you did sweet about it, but this rude about it yeah I felt like you advance the tonight's. The night down Trump became president meme, I'm not going to quit.
I'm not going to quit with that name. Then it will never not
it'll, never also the White House
Yesterday, the New England Patriots, I am very
happy the Tom Brady for some mysterious reason did not go along with six other patriots,
and I'm also happy that while Trump had the
Brady's, wife, tweeted, a
but the climate March and then until
about the climate March yeah. I I you know. I don't like that as much, but the good for Jim do. You think,
maybe Gisele has been I'd like to think that maybe Gisele has been the force for good here
in Tom's, ear about this people? Don't care about those people? Listen! Is there like five Tom Brady I get it. I get it
I mean I finally just like three weeks ago got over my anger at you and Tommy for being patriots fans in the Trump era, and I was just-
like it's fine Brady is not a political person. He can go with sort of gross that he's friends with Donald Trump, but he's great quarterback. So I'm glad he didn't go
I do not appreciate the New England, Patriots, twitter account doing
Sean, Spicer Sour rapid response on the number of patriots who attended the event I'm talking to sub, to like Bob cry.
Getting involved in the owner. Who's like given money to Donald Trump, I can't look I'm very conflicted about this. It's time is the best way out,
which is just not everything has to be about politics
So there's not really true, but yes, I, like I like Tommy's good compartmentalizing, so I'm going to go with that,
uh! Well, I'm gonna watch Emma Washington. Football fan who's, who is an owner, basically a Donald Trump Junior and
has a racist name that I can't say so. I forgot your Washington you too much. I forgot your watching football fan. Anyway, we will
of Jews? All's tweet that came down the climate March is in DC on April. Twenty ninth we'll talk a little bit more about that next week. This weekend as well, give a plug for the March for Science
in more than it will be in DC more than five hundred cities. All
on the world go to March for science com to find out more about it would be scientists and science advocates Mark Jinga met, but the fact that we
point where scientists have to march because there
about political attack.
On the integrity of science from Trump
Republicans is is a sad state of affair, but
working with Bill Nye on this bill as one of the hosts of the of the science March. So so everyone even Bill Nye. The science guy Bill Nye the Science guy yeah, and we have two of them the other day going around. Is he doing interviews about the so he's?
he's going to be at the March and and you should too much for science dot com. Okay
So we had a retirement this week, Dan HA who retired jack, are our good friend Jason Chafets
We see an elder gentleman who's towards the end of his career and wanted to maybe spend some time with his grandkids. In fact no
he's an up and Comer he's a he's. What was he was a former rising star of the Republican Party in
the House Oversight Committee, which is quite a big job. Well, I guess in fairness,
if your, if your job is oversight and you've decided to know oversight, why hang around I mean
some people were saying that yesterday, which is probably maybe one of the better takes that he thought that
Clinton was going to become president, and then he was going to investigate her for four years. He was excited to investigate Hillary Clinton for four years. He didn't know what he was going to investigate her over email,
blah blah blah, but he knew he was going to do it and then Donald Trump won, and he,
it off. By saying, I'm not going to vest a Donald Trump, but I am still going to investigate Hillary Clinton. He was. He was very excited about that.
You know by the way he
he originally unendorsed Donald Trump, because after the access Hollywood tape came out, he said I can't
my daughter in the eye anymore.
And support this man and then, of course, not only supported him but decided not to
best agate, any of the many investigate rible things that Donald Trump does how's, that for a word that I just made up,
and then of course, there's some there, some other great Jason Chafets moments. He he
intimidated by his own constituents in town hall. He was
they were yelling at him. He he told he said that that poor,
Well should maybe, if they can't afford health insurance should just maybe not
buy that new Iphone and invest in their health care for that yeah. He
It doesn't seem like a good dude in any way, shape or form. No, he
As you said, he was
the. If we had a list of people that we hoped would leave politics forever, and
and fail miserably their careers. He was at the
top, so we are now have an extra Jason Chaffetz.
We're going to the office. I
merch idea here, I think we should get a deck
it's like the Bush administration had for the top fifty two members of Al Qaeda of just Republican
politicians that we cannot stand because they are cowards
Trump era I mean obviously Paul ryan- be the ace of spades yeah, no
the aria stark style list. You know joke yesterday the Hound Cersei Walder Frey, so
shaver that so the weirdest thing about the ship and then we'll move on the weirdest thing about the show. If it's news is today just before we started recording he
told the radio station that he may resign before the end of his term. What's up with that? Well, I
bed in several publications, including the failing New York Times that he
may want to tv deal with Fox, which apparently has some openings. Oh good, segue,
and that was a natural thing like that.
That, first of all, it said that he wants to go to Fox and not like. I said he could. If he wants to come to a pot on crooked media, called pod, save my soul,
We've said well, I said this before any any. Any Trump defector is welcome to do it, but here called pods. It's spice it's for Spicer.
For Shafe its whoever wants it. First, there's only one slot so um, but yeah. So Fox Fox has a
Fox has a new spot open because they too had a retirement a force for time.
Of one bill O'Reilly out at Fox after the New York Times, disclosed it
eight. Oh thirteen million dollars in settlements involving sex
Rassmann allegations against him from five different women over the last decade, or so so the first quest
is why the take them so long because they're terrible people, yeah probably
yeah the who care only about money. I mean yeah
it's these allegations. Many of these allegations have been known since two thousand and two right right. It's just the world changed where people got
active and started pressuring. These advertisers to
stay away from the road rally factor. So once it started affecting their bottom line, then they cared.
People are celebrity advertising. O'reilly would be on the air on Monday and Fox NEWS would still be a viper pit of misogynistic sexual harassment,
and we should and that's an important point we should give credit to
change national Organization for women, media matters, sleeping giants,
organizations helped run,
campaigns to pressure advertisers to pull out of the O'Reilly factor, and they did
and he was left with. You know a couple gold commercials and
like that. It look a lot. A lot of people did not
could be there's a lot of you know
everyone had their smart takes about how the average the pressure on the advertisers wouldn't work. 'cause. You know Fox
most of their money from the cable companies that pay fox to be on their package and all that bullshit. But it did work. The pressure worked
There is pressure on the parent company 21st century fox right, which is movies and television and a lots of lots of other forms of,
besides just the Fox NEWS Channel and it was probably hurting their reputation as well yeah, I think, if you're a liberal activists
if you, if liberal activist, can come together an pressure Fox news to do something then there's literally nothing you can't do and it
so. I think it's a powerful motivating factor. It also sort of shows how I think politics and business. It's changed a little bit in this new era of activism during the Trump presidency, which is there's a brand Costa being associated with some of this behavior that Trump has brought
to the forefront- and I think this may be a different conversation if we had not elected a president who bragged about sexual assaults- and so many misogynistic things, it energize people to take a stand against a set of horrible behaviors that have been accepted in some corporate environments for a long time and fox seems to be a real throwback to the you know. The mad men era of
we know workplace conduct. It makes me feel good too, for the women who had the courage to come forward to, because I said this before, but I always
about all the women who came forward to talk about Donald Trump,
grass in before the election, and then you know, Donald Trump wins
so the woman that came forward to
tell the truth about Bill O'Reilly. You know they can see today that he
on it took way way too long for it to happen, but I'm I'm glad it did. Do we think that anything changes at Fox? Do you think that her big changes of
a foot or they just you know shuffle the deck and we get the same kind of crap. Well, I think there are sort of two different ways that look at how fox changes I mean it is a different there's, the
what happens on the air right and then there was like what happens in the workplace, and you would have
I hope and believe that, if all right
Bailey. Who is the biggest money if Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly who's the biggest the most public face of Fox NEWS, the biggest
maker. I assume I can go down for this conduct. Then that should hopefully send a signal that that is unacceptable and cannot continue. You know, I'm skeptical, our friend gave Sherman of New York magazine who is sort of own
the Fox NEWS beat the head. What were hit his tweet today was what we're learning more and more is that Elsa's Fox NEWS was a cross between the Nixon White House, J, EDGAR Hoover's FBI in Hooters, let's see which seems pretty good. What, but
some people like you've, responded to this on twitter and same on
It's going to change. Fox news is still going to be this terrible, the
Soul of I almost had fake news, so I don't need to do that, but this
We will continue to push this.
Conspiracy theories, nativists, racism, yeah yeah, and that's not what this was about.
I think Fox NEWS will always will be that way as long as there's a way to make money being that way,
it's true. There is now a new era because in all you know in a year, they've lost Roger Ailes who's. The you know the brain child of this whole thing bill O'Reilly in making Kelly who left for her own reasons, and so it's gonna look like a different products, but I think it's still gonna try to serve the same purpose, which is to misinform
every segment of population about a misinformed population away. That will help elect Republicans, misinformed, angry and fearful. That's their goal over there
so let's turn to Georgia? Six, let's get the Georgia. Sixth,
we have special election on Tuesday night.
I say one more say. One thing about Fox NEWS: please do please do, which is, I think we
the people always argue that Fox NEWS is a quote: unquote: conservative outlet, yeah, that's the
I've always thought. That's the wrong way to look at it. It's a republican outlet when the Republican,
mission, is before the Iraq war that no one.
Is the Iraq war, like Fox NEWS, when the republican position is
Obama is being two interventionists
no one cheer
is the isolation obsession like Fox NEWS. You just look at.
Hannity, when the Republicans decided they're going to be for immigration reform. Sean Hannity came out for immigration reform when it turned out that that wasn't popular, the no one beat the racist drum of raising
but immigration like Fox NEWS and so Sean Hannity literally took root inside over the c. I a I mean, come on it's I mean in Fox NEWS at this think about that and for
This is people who basically destroyed to destroy the careers of the Dixie Chicks 'cause. They were critical of the Iraq WAR right
and now the aid adopts a pro Russia position against a career or military intelligence professionals in this country, which is insane it's a it's a good point, and I
does it. There is no, I hate saying even conservative media, because
not conservative, and also there probably you know, there's concern
out there that I disagree with on policy and
issues, but I think
trying to make an honest case just that, I'm very much against, but, like you, don't
We've had a lot in the quote: unquote: conservative media. It's like a bunch of hacks. Now that are tenner. Just you know, spreading conspiracy theories,
and so look I'd love to point him
conservative media outlets that I just happen to disagree with on policy, but are telling the truth and not spreading conspiracy theories. It's just it's hard to find those these days.
Conservative writers. Yes, who adopt the position and have you know, stayed with me to work with and relative consistency by
there is a clear there's, a business model for engaging for the what has now become the Trump base and whatever it takes to do. That is a way to make money, whether it's as a cable television network or you know, driving facebook, traffic or other social media traffic
so Georgia, sixth Tuesday night special election. How annoying are election nights? Now I hate them specially,
on Twitter, a God
is I try
go for a run right as the polls
as it is going to take awhile for results to come in, like not look at my phone and I have to confess even on the run, I looked down and you
get all caught up in early vote. Early vote looks good. It's just. I am like Charlie Brown, with the fucking football
Every time my cat is, someone has to to take my phone away until the polls are closed for three hours like I need at least one hour of election day vote it like. I know this, you and I had this eggs
that conversation over text. This is what would happen and still when
office so over from the early vote, it seems impossible is not gonna get the fifty or something like I'm like well, it's over and then slowly over time. I watch the numbers there, which got sadder and sadder
What was most of it done but was also knowing about it is my expectations were set in the complete right place going into the night, because the his pulley,
average so of pulling average going into the special election was forty six percent so not close to fifty.
Not without the margin. You know within the margin of error like it would have been crazy if he, if he got fifty, but I wasn't expecting it at forty six percent also just fax.
Two thousand and sixteen Hillary Clinton. One hundred and forty six point
eight percent of the vote in the district to Trump's forty eight point three. So it was narrow, but she still lost by about
point a half Tom price in twenty. Sixteen the congressman that OZ trying to replace
by twenty three points against a democratic challenger that granted was not well funded?
Brock Obama lost the district by twenty three points in two thousand and twelve, so like first of all, getting to fifty would have been quite
achievement, but, of course, as have over
formed in the early vote, I guess is there's this new thing now we're just Democrats.
All vote early. Every single Democrat there is just goes to the polls ahead of time or males in their ballot, and then none of them show up on election day. I guess that's just what we have to expect from now on yeah. It seems, there's always been this argument. That
you know that early vote cannibalizes your election day vote and I've always thought that not to be true
and it doesn't really in a sense, it's good. You want to have as many votes in the bank as possible for sure, but we're definitely the party by focusing so much on early for the last several cycles is definitely moved people who would traditionally be election day, voters into the early vote
cool, and so it sort of screws up the expectations, probably not of the campaigns who should know better- and I think you know better but of
of media pendant twitter World who, in the expect, you know the expectations determines how you know that that's our archive exhortations instruments how the press covers it. You know if the fact that we thought Osyth was going to get fifty for some period of time in the evening. The fact that he didn't, even though he outperform
expectations were seen somehow as a LOS by some very dumb people very dumb, and it's just like. We saw this on these primary nights, where you know
either Hillary or Trump or Bernie would win a bunch of races, early
you know on one of the multi state days and that everyone would be like huge win for Hillary and then that would be all the coverage all the coverage for Trump, even though the other key
it it. It would then win some of the you know the Wesco States, the ones that they took longer to count in the margin, would not be as decisive delegate Weiss's people thought, but he
We then you settle on a narrative and run with it. You know so
question is: can you win the runoff? So he ended up at forty eight point. One percent in the vote and
his election. If you combine all the Republican
it's together, they add up to
one percent, all the democratic votes together. There's a couple.
Democratic candidates that adds up to forty
nine percent to fifty
the forty, nine and Tuesdays race Republican, so very close, but I don't know what do you think? Do you think you can pull it off in June?
yeah. I do, I think it's if he got forty eight percent. Now it's a
no. It's a coin flip. I don't know that he is favored, but I don't, but I think he has a
good shot. He should have an enthusiasm advantage going and getting forty percent in a very large multi candidate fields, very impressive, so there's not
ton of democratic vote to consolidate, but.
You know you wonder where Trump numbers will be where the republic- and you know it's- the enthusiasm will be. You know a month from now or six weeks now, whenever it is, and so.
He has a shot and we should, as a party fight to win it and fight hard and it may suck if we lose. But you can't just pass up a healthy like we need. If you have a shot at a house, he prickly one right in that district. You know it matters and
so, we need to continue to channel the grassroots enthusiasm and then this the democratic rest of organizations who played a role and in the in the run off in the the first racing to play a role in the run off, but I do want to step back and focus on the bigger picture here
We need to flip twenty four republican seats to win the house in twenty eighteen. If Republicans end up with a two point,
manage in the Georgia. Sixth, that means
according to our friend of the pod whiz kid
Renton over at five hundred and thirty. Eight that mean
that there are forty eight republican held seats that are bluer than the Georgia sixth there, as we've said this before,
republican seats in districts,
actually want. Remember.
In closing all such district, but you do not want it. So that means there are republicans sitting in districts that Hillary Clinton won in two thousand and sixteen so look awesome.
Form Democrats over the last few cycles in Georgia. By about seven one slash two points: if you average it out in Kansas,
Thompson, outperform Democrats by twenty two points in the current generic ballot. If you ask people, do you want to
credit for Congress or a Republican for Congress is Republicans minus.
Which is the largest gap ever recorded at this stage of the election cycle, so
there's a it's all this to say is that you know Trump has been able to basically pick which districts
we're having special elections right now, because he's he's picking the congressman in his cabinet and then you know, he's now
picking congressman to put his cabinet from swing, districts or districts that are vulnerable, he's trying to pick them from safe districts. So, just
sort of like set expectations here for demo
it's out there like, yes, like you said, and we should contest every single one of these races for sure, but let's not expect,
to win all of them. We need. We need twenty four. We need to keep our eye on the prize here. You know yeah. I think we talked about this a little bit after the Kansas race, which I think was last week, but it feels like one hundred years ago. We had like three wars since then. Is that the old theory,
was you know we have like the Romans, have huge money advantage they're going to have you know it's a myth
they're going to have a turnout advantage. We have to be very narrow and targeted and how we had in which races we go after because
you know with someone. As a former d triple C official said after
Kansas, race, a million dollar spent in Kansas is a million dollars. You don't get to spend in the ISIS seed or
union receipt that mace or any of those twenty three districts that Clinton one, but I don't think that we may pass,
that there may be a near bottomless well of grassroots enthusiasm and money and donations yep right in money for these races- and we just don't know where Trump is going to be:
when we get either any special or you know when you get to eighteen, like this issue, theoretically be the peak of his popularity and he is historically the most unpopular president at this time
and you know one of the things when we have a huge wave and took the house in two thousand and six. It was to the great credit of our former boss and then the triple c chair, ROM Emanuel was they put
candidates in as many races as possible, even in ones that people that Democrats did not one in generations and thought there was no shot in and you hope for a wave- and
The early signs are, there could be a wave here because of what Trump's numbers are and democratic enthusiasm
so we got to invest. Get candidates invest time and money and all of these seats, and you might pick up a bunch
you know, would be a real shame to leave a bunch leave a bunch of seats on the table because we were afraid to invest like this month.
Seat. It seems harder than the Georgia seat for sure
it's easier than the Kansas Eden. If you performed at near that level, you might have a shot in Montana or in the South Carolina seat. That's coming up for Mick Mulvaney's seat. I think
yeah. We should definitely definitely focus in Montana and look I I do think. I think that the Dnc and the triple see has to go back and they can't be afraid and
how to play everywhere and they have to and have to take risks. You know like I do not
this is a time to be timid. When there's this much enthusiasm in the grass roots, I don't think the bay should allow that to happen so yeah. I I think
There's greater risk in not
fighting and losing then fighting a losing their great. I mean
The moral of story here is to you
when you see one of these special elections, there's a lot of focus from political reporters on the drama and personality of the individual race in the character
involved and what you,
want do, is pull back and look at the big picture, which also, which brings us
do the Clinton book that was out this week, which I just want to say something quick about
where we get on to before we move on to honor so
parents and Jonathan Allen wrote a book about the Clinton campaign called shattered.
Not very kind to the Clinton campaign
Anyone talk about why these books are sort of
so I mean I the like there
there's, like God, forking the row narrative for all campaigns. If you win your g
Yes, no matter how many dumb things you did and if you are a if you lose, then you are
then you're an idiot and everyone that campaign today, and they only made bad decisions and it you know if
if seventy thousand or whatever his votes in three states, had uh change,
Columns in Hillary had eked out a tiny victory over Donald Trump. Then this book would be. The book would be written in a way that treated everyone. The Clinton campaign genius
the geniuses, because they overcame the
Rick Kobe announcement russian hacking.
Emails. You know the Wall Street speech all the the bricks on the loading they they manage to pull that out like what
says they will be in history books and because of that shift of oats, then now for therefore it go takes the opposite. Narrative
in there's. True, I'm sure all the quotes in there are true right. I don't think a bit, you know the these are
real journalist. I didn't make these up or anything, but it's just it's pushed through a different narrative. We have lost in twenty twelve. The books about our campaign would have been would have treated us like
RON supposed to the people who took campaigns
new level with our data and analytics and all this other stuff. And so, if you see it, you gotta read these with a note of caution:
I don't do they make a b be there, but one thing to note: '
These books, too, is that they don't quote people directly.
Characterize people's thinking, people's thinking and talking about
'cause, you know when the book came out sort of
Zio's the morning tipsheet like lead with something that I said that for me in the book right, because I
I'm here to help out with the announcement speech and like I'll say that
yes, the announcement speech process was badly fuckedup up. I don't think it was the fault of the speech.
Raiders or the campaign managers or any staffers. I think that Hillary had a really hard time, articulating a rationale or compelling vision for her candidacy that
doesn't mean, should inspire millions of her supporters, especially women. It doesn't mean she would have made a great president doesn't mean it's why she lost, but I do think articulating
that rationale that vision is vital in
If you're going to run for president. That said, it was written that I thought
people in the campaign and reminded me of
here campaign, in that no one was united by any common purpose, larger than pushing a less than thrilling candidate into the White House. Why did not say that? I do not believe that I think that's bullsh
really. I actually think that I was on the Carey campaign. I think every campaign I've been
I've been on Obama, Kerry and then all the people that I know in the Clinton campaign you going to join
pain, and this was true- the people in the Clinton campaign do you believe,
candidate, you believe in each other and
Importantly, you actually believe in what the candidate is fighting for right and that doesn't mean that you don't fight and have problems and get annoyed with each other, but you just you, don't join
one of those campaigns just because like
you have your eyes on some office in the White House like you join the campaign because you believe in things, and so I do think that was unfair. That said, yeah there was a lot like. I do believe
that they had a really really hard time coming up with a cohesive message in that campaign, and we've talked about this before, but you know it's true, but look. The moral of the story is, and I have fallen victim
This myself- and I know you have and all of us have when a reporter calls yep who's writing a book about the
campaign in your part of that campaign. Don't fucking talk to them, don't return, mark
Prince call, don't return. John Heilman's call don't return
we are in school. I, like all these look. Their their incentive is to write a book that is salacious and has a lot of juicy details and his dramatic so that it will sell copies. That is their incentive. Your incentive is not to do. That is not to talk to them.
And it never works out. It never works out. You know my big beef of about this book. Is it just brought up the
first debates that we went through, I know I will be less and it's like
the whole thing about Hillary and then the Bernie people are mad and it's like what is going on again, but it's like every time the the Clinton campaign
has taken, you know, has responsibility for what happened here and many of them
I have taken it- that responsibility public publicly
but they also have some legitimate beefs about either how the emails were covered or the fact that Russians hacked the election and every time they bring it up the
this is why didn't you go to Wisconsin, it's like
multiple things can all be true. At the same time, in the acting was not right,
campaign was not perfect. Hillary was not
great candidate, even though I think she would have been a very good president. The
instead hacked the election. She did Holly's moved votes by doing something done, and Hillary
emails recovered like they were the worst scandal in history. All of those things are true. All this is going to be the result. You don't have to pick one. This is not like choose your own adventure. You know the making of the president and
Press was unfair to her and there was misogyny and she had problems that predated the campaign. That's the
boring stories that some of her flaws is a candidate predated, anything that the campaign did, but,
we did face a lot of shittu an there were a lot of black swan events too. So you write like it is a very complicated series of explanations for this campaign and
it's important to learn from those as we go forward. But man,
fighting them over and over and over again ad nauseam. I don't know anyway, that's that when we come back
we'll be talking to ANA Marie Cox. Hey don't go anywhere
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Welcome to the show ANA Marie the host of comedians with friends like
is. How are you I again in Trump adjusted terms, I'm doing fine hi, I I am doing better than a lot of people, so I just can't
define what we just talked about a lot of things from this week. We're really stuck out to you.
This week. What's on your mind, well, did you guys talk about the case of the missing aircraft carrier? We did not get to the case of the
sing aircraft carrier, which is so glad you brought that up
yeah. So it turns out. You know, someone is tough. Talk was shockingly just tough talk, there's the edit with a trump correct me. If I have any details on that, I could be your. That would be doing me a service
Apparently no. What did the president right uh, you know with N Korea was doing it favor right
we savor back specifically by Trump saying we were sending. I think he said, an armada which you know
which is sort of an old weather, which you know kind of quaint term, in touch about submarines and aircraft carriers, specifically, the
says, Karl Denson. I believe it is that's the current turned out there that are your tracker. Your would not in fact, on its way to North Korea at all it, but in fact, with doing
kind of training, exercise off,
Just hanging out. I mean it's, it's dangerous for a whole bunch of
that's like number one, but also how embarrassing like apparently, like.
Chinese state Media, Japan and South Korea like all meeting all these other countries in Asia. We're just like mocking us for doing something like this. I mean look what what? What? Why do it? What is
don't don't you know you're going to get caught when someone notices an entire aircraft,
area. You know I mean it. It really is a tough to try and figure out motives with this administration, like, I think it's Josh Marshall, who kind of invented the rule of thumb that it's probably just in comp
usually like. We can look for the forty Michelle Chance play or they try to figure out a rational motive, but I mean I I do think a competent explains that most of the time I I I feel like with this particular and
and it's it's it's dangerous, and it shows also just how willing Trump is Q to blast right yeah, and that is you guys have worked in the White House. You tell me is that something that that is part, a good, a good
thing in diplomacy, yeah. Maybe if it's your very last diplomatic move ever
after your bluff, the first time guess what's going to happen next time, you know
yeah this was. This was so good, because mainly the reason why we know the Carl Vinson was leaving with N Korea.
They posted a photo of themselves on social media, we'll just chucking away to Australia. I did I did.
Also also Carl Vinson spent fifty years in Congress representing what is now known as Georgia. Six, I saw that the night of the election that was uh yeah
as world ranked this, because it is kind of terrifying right because you don't if he says this with such confidence. Who knows who knows we can't leave? Thank you saying and in the it comes back to that, and we always market and we always laughed about it. But it's it's actually a crisis. You know for our government not just for, and you know, relationships that all
with mystically the welfare blog, which I'm sure you guys keep up with. I do I like a lot of blood. They did it as opposed and at a talk about how our entire government kind of depends on trusting the office of the President to basically the field that third general help line of duty right right and to be honest in is stating what the intentions are and what the policies are. Like you know we can, we all I'm sure and, as you know, this moment did not like a lot of stuff that Bush did, but we kinda understood why he was doing what he was doing and trusted his explanations for that yeah and for what we thought Saddam in.
That's how we could proceed and that's how you people on the other branches of government could Chrissy and now no one knows what to believe. I do think that the a silver lining on the on the foreign policy agenda this week did you notice that the Trump Administration for verified that are are on was complying with the nuclear deal.
I did not notice that I was. I remember radar because you know they're lying about where aircraft carriers are but uhm yeah they certified
yeah the IRAN deal, which is very kockisch of them. I thought
Yeah, you know I mean that's, that's that that's another site right, the late they're, all the not just tough talk but they're, discovering the reality, the government as a governing right you in position to do to continue with the norm that have been set right like if you look at the actual information available to you about all the different situations that turns out hey. What is what
What is the phrase of the presidency? It's more complicated than you thought, as Barack Obama is just a hard things are hard and I feel, like I had this fantasy before Trump actually took office that you know. I think you and I talked about this, but like Obama would become Trump's. You know kind of drunk dial threat. Friends like that's always late at night, called Color Bama up and be like hey
So N Korea help me more yeah. Well, I guess that relationship didn't happen. The way that I imagined it would I I thought maybe this would be like the llamas like last and most important active public service would be to like take Trump school
two in the morning I feel like after you've been accused of
wire tapping. Your successors, phones, you'd, feel like. Maybe I'm not going to take that call yeah. I think he would take the call from past the main road
and hopefully reports do it 'cause, it would admit some it would. It would
For his massive insecurities
who's who's on your show. Tomorrow
wow, which you can two segments we have Greg, do sat who some people might recognize that name from Twitter. He is a criminal attorney. Criminal justice attorney did not
he's not a doctor criminal. As far as you can a hung on criminals like interesting yeah. I know he he he is a colonel defense attorney. That's what you call that thing is
Durham, NC and he's a never trump guy and his sort of had an interesting, let's say, ideological journey to a place where, on issues of racial justice he sounds like he could be speaking at a black lives matter rally. He is very passionate about criminal justice reform and about the way that police treat black people and most people of color. So we talked about that and then the second segment no offense to Greg, but I had a lot of fun during the second segment we took, we took out not a reader, but a listener call about dating dating
all biracial, and- and I say we because I had my apology because then who's also it she and I got on the phone with the gentleman who wanted to talk about you know how do you talk about race with your friends and with people you're dating, and I think it sounds like it would be serious, but we have a lot of fun with it, although you know
Sears parts made too I love the I love taking their readers questions. That's a great it's a great segment! Yep yep
it will be more of it. I I I think it's a lot of fun and I think that you know what we do here. Right is the whole point of our our our participating.
Is it. We want to have the conversations that people are having already right. We want to talk about politics like real people. Do now right. I will talk to people it's right on Brandon. Yes, thank you. I studied the memo you set.
Alright. Well, everyone download
episode tomorrow on Friday, it will be with friends like these it'll be great thanks for joining us and
when we come back, we will have governor, develop
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start with a period. They know what they're doing over the cash at square cash on the pod. Today we are very lucky to be joined by Governor Deval, Patrick,
two term. Governor of my home State Massachusetts. It is
to have you here, it's great to be with you both thank you so
There always obviously been a lot of comparisons between your campaign.
Governor in two thousand and six in Obama's campaign for
in two thousand and eight is that right that I've heard a few times, you didn't have
experience in politics, you're an outsider with the grassroots organization run against establishment. You become the first black chief executive
why did you run what made you decide to Ryan? What made you think you had a chance against those odds? Well, those are
two or three very different question that first, first really with respect your question, why I think, first of all the two things, one
one of the things I noticed in my business career was this incredible focus on on the short term, the managing from quarter to quarter, I think sometimes
not without due regard or not with due regard for the long term interests of the enterprise, and I think that bad habit has leaked over there.
Lara to the way we govern ourselves. Frankly,
ourselves cells from election cycle to election cycle sometime,
news cycle, the news cycle and not for the next generation? And I think that's hurt us, so that was one
and the second was that increasing
it felt to me like we were. We were settling for candidates who were
stated on how to win rather than why they should on
on the mechanics of how to put it together, rather than on a vision for what it is. They want to do with the position once they once they got in it and and who didn't really stand for any
and you know, I'm not so naive that I I don't understand you have to get to
moderate, your point of view in order to in order to achieve the
issue, but you know you want to believe in something other than just accumulating power and influence for the sake of having accumulated it. It seems to be you, don't you don't bank political capital, you spend because that's how
actually move things a move things along, so I want to see whether it was possible to be I a principled candidate running at the grass roots and then trying to govern at the at the at the grass roots and so am
yeah long answer, I stink, it sounds like it like such a distant quaint notion. Today
yeah. It's ok. I still think it matters. I think the first of all you know the public
I believe, as a citizen,
the fried every time every time and what we? But what I think we have what's come to happen is that we've come to settle for that right in politics, and so we are eventually the sort of essentially making our judgments based on on how people play the game rather than how authentic and well intentioned
They are and- and you know, I think that's hurt us so and I think that's why President Obama was such a different kind of candidate in a different kind of leader in such a compellingly Dan. You got a question I do you know you went into you know much like
Brock Obama comparison. You know you ran on a message. It was very hopeful and optimistic.
Hopefully, you know are, is why should Democrats be hopeful now given what's going on in the country? Well, Dan. First of all, I think we are a hopeful nation. We are hopeful
Poulan I think Democrats are, I mean the reason I'm a Democrat is because I think Democrat the Democratic Party
the party of the American Dream and I still believe in the
I can dream. I've lived it. I think there are
challenges. There have always been challenges and there different kinds and more broad based
challenges today. Then perhaps they have been in recent times, but we win.
As Democrats when we stand for something and we lose frankly when our case is mainly
about what's wrong with the other side rather than what's right with us, and so I'm
I'm a Democrat, I think in part, because I'm a hopeful person because, as I say, I think I think the American
dream still matters, I think it's what's defining about this country and when we direct our attention and our focus there and we have both the right programs and the right vision of what those programs
our four. Then we win and we deserved to win. Do you think national Democrats are doing a good
standing for something right now. Well, I think it's, I think it's it's a perennial challenge.
Yeah. You know, we, I think you know
we both know. I feel strongly about the importance of of running
and governing at the grassroots. For me, that was both a practical and of philosophical point of view was a practical point of view, because you know politics in Massachusetts for all of them
you know all the focus on how blue is stated is right. The deal is much less
CAT republican than it is inside or outside, or it's a very tight and inward looking and closed political establishment only way in floor at for a new
summer, like me, was to was to come from the grassroots around and up rather than a person
You know getting permission from the from those in control, but philosophically I think, there's power an inviting people who have been left out and left back back into their own civic and political life and to take charge of it 'cause. I think we get the government we deserve and I think we deserve better government so long way round to your question. I think Democrats are beginning to focus again
on the importance of of politicking and engaging at the grassroots. I think fifty state strategy is it sometimes called is exactly
if I knew the number of counties in the in the country, I tell you it should be that
counties a strategy. We should be engaging everywhere,
Because our message is a fundamentally patriotic message and it's proven overtime to be good for people who are trying to
build an economy Annan opportunity set that is about reaching out to the marginalized and not just up to the well connected. So the
couple days after the twenty sixteen election you wrote some thoughts about the election. Have some friends was reported in a few places
some extraordinary email. I tweeted out later for everyone. When your first,
Good quote, I am sad, disturbed embarrassed, but not surprised. Why are we not surprised? Well, I think you know to the point. First of all, we had an extraordinary candidate,
I'm the bank President Obama himself said quite rightly, that Secretary Clinton was probably the best prepared candidate for president that ever run for a for present. In many ways, though, I think our our campaign was to the point I was making earlier more about what was wrong with them and what was right with us, and I think I am, though it was dark and and divisive the vision
that candidate Trump painted was a vision and answer to that vision, I think, has to be more than a list of better policies in our policies were much much better yeah, but knitting them together into a picture of what kind of country we wanted is something we didn't do very well.
And so there was that and then also. I think there was some truth that both the Trump
pain and the Sanders campaign talked about and I'm you know. This is a point that I and others
we're making to the Clinton campaign all along
had they won. It was important to hear what Sanders and
Supporters are trying to say about how they felt about their government, how they felt about the economy, how they felt about each other.
And the notion that you know I am a dispirited and and disaffected part of the population. Would I choose Trump or President truck now, President Trump, and
their spokesperson, rather than rather than a Democrat was a was a wild and discouraging, but but I think they felt hurt in some ways by by him and in ways that they didn't always by us. Did anyone happen
Sure governor. Are there some specific things you think Democrats could do or say to try to win back some of those voters who voted for Barack Obama in two thousand eight, two thousand and twelve.
Voted for Trump. This time, or even some of those voters who voted for Obama in those two elections then set out this one.
Well, then that may be above my pay grade, but I think, probably probably as
citizen when I'm listening for our both messages.
I am both listening for messages an watching for actions 'cause. You asked about what Democrats can do or answer or say, and I think they have to do an say
I think, on the saying part you know we have to: we have to be on an apologetic and unembarrassed
but the core neo Nate notion that we are the party of patriotism. We are the party of
of an american vision that recognizes we are,
Only nation in human history organized not the way,
nations are normally organized. It wasn't geography or language or or culture that that defined and has defined
America, it's a set of civic values, freedom, equality, opportunity, fair play, and if you think about the best
of the Democratic Party, we've been central to advancing those values over time. So all that stuff around
you know around civil rights legislation around equal pay for equal work, legislation, array,
the ability to organize as workers around clean,
Air and water around reasonable
amateur for a free economy
That stuff is about advancing those values and connecting what we do to
we believe about those values in unapologetic ways I think, is enormously important and in fact, and frankly I think is unifying
Ross, a whole range of differences 'cause. I think. Finally, the truth is that most people aren't by
one hundred percent of what either party is selling most
more discerning than that?
I know I am. I know you guys are and I think we ought to acknowledge that and sort of you know swing for the fence in our broadest most optimistic and most forward leaning way so
what made you leave politics will put. You know I only had one elective office right
I see you very successful term. Well, that's kind of government. We got a lot done, I'm you know it was. You know IRAN,
Not realizing, I was going to run headlong into the to a global economic collapse
We know we know how that feels right and
you know and
in some ways. One of our biggest challenges was that my predecessor,
Mitt Romney had signed a bill around Universal Healthcare care that took effect the day. I took office
so it was up to us to implement it. An I'm proud of the fact that, after after eight years,
we were number one in the nation and in health care coverage in student, achievement in our schools in veteran services and economic
live Nous a whole range and in energy efficiency, whole range of other initiatives. We had balanced budgets we had to. We achieve the highs bond rating in the history of the common well lots to
things happened. We didn't get it all right by any means, nobody, nobody does, but there's a lot of wear and tear in those jobs. You know an I thought. First, I like that
old fashioned notion that you can come in an out of public life when you feel you have something to contribute and and back into private life when it's time to get re acquainted with your friends and family, and it felt like it was time to get re acquainted with my friends and family and I'm having a ball and what I'm doing
and what it. What are you up to now, so we started a new impact, investing business and being capital where we
I've heard about that yeah right where
I know you and everybody else think you know everything about the from from the twenty two okay. I know I know but yeah. Sorry, it's in one group of colleagues and we
the new business. We are investing in lower middle market companies in North America for both a competitive
turn and measurable social or environmental impact. So your best
and companies that that either
invested in sustainability or creating jobs in low income areas. Exactly kind of that, the three areas of focus are sustainability, as you said,
for us is about sustainable consumer goods. It's about water, an energy efficiency companies were interested in urban agriculture as well we're investing.
In our second area of focus in health and wellness, so access to affordable care, including behavioral health, which the nutrition, including healthy Qsr, so called guy with a quick, serve restaurant, we're interested in Ed tech companies whose products and services are about closing achievement, gaps in skills gaps. Then a third area of focus we describe John, is as community building so companies that intentionally are creating jobs and helping to catalyze economic activity in places of chronic underemployment. You think you'd ever get back into politics, maybe if the time is right and if I have something to something to offer, I'm
yeah. I don't I don't to me, but but I'm I think public service is an honorable, a an honorable thing to do, and, and frankly I wish we had a I
wish. We had a a system where everybody had some responsibility at some time to do some public service because, as I said earlier, we get the government we deserve and we yeah. We deserve better government and we deserve more engagement in our demise.
Then we have routinely today. Well, I will admit I was at south by southwest a couple months ago and we were asked about our favorite two thousand and twenty potential candidates and
I brought up your name so for that you know, you should be aware that you're going to tell me that before I can, I did not do not share that with this. This is not a trap yeah. I will move on from the I'll. Just leave it there did you.
One, more question for the governor sure governor
other things we try to do on this podcast is encourage people to run for office up and down the ballot, whether it's
State Senate School Board, something bigger. What advice would you have for someone who, like you, was a first time politician who was considering a run for office
first of all do it. There are all kinds of kind of obvious reasons not to and not,
of which is that more and more particularly the sort of high
there you go with more senior you, you go the crueler, it is, and you know it's it's not the best of who we are
but it is often that that way, but you know there are some incredible other benefits, not the least of which is the.
Is the value of service, the value of looking out, rather than in of of of trying to do what our grandparents
taught each in every one of us, which is that we're supposed to do what we can to leave things better for those who come behind us. I think the other thing that is rarely mentioned, though, is that I've-
in my in the job. I had that you know, because and partly because of the way
we did it. I was out a lot. I was with people that almost always people had something to say
and that you could tell you know you're out in the grocery store on the street, or something like that and folks would give me a double taken.
I now realize that first, in the first instance is it was because they were processing that I'm taller on tv and then
and then you could see them trying to figure out what to say and more often than not. It was not a criticism or a compliment. It was some tiny intimate insight into how they live their lives
and those are gifts and if you're listening, you begin to hear consensus points you begin to under you being to get real understanding about how about people's lived experience, and it makes you better at the job and that's a that's a kind of a richness it's hard to it's hard to describe, but I think it's available
people who were who serve will governor. Thank you for coming by. I don't know if you remember, but the
The moment we met was right. After the
your price never forget down, I will never and we were. We were backstage and Brock about, had just lost to Hillary Clinton, and I was sitting by my
self and I had my head down and I was probably a little teary and you came over to me.
If you knew who I was, and you just put your hand on my shoulder and you said, keep your head up son this. This fight is hard
working in someday. You'll. Look back on this moment fondly and now I do
my grandmother would say, look at Chino. We all that. Okay, we all that. Okay. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you stopping by. Thank you Dan. Okay, take care, take care, thank you to develop, Patrick, thank you to all
three cocks. That's all the time we have for today. We have the whole gang here on the Outro Dan Gonna love it here.
Here guys. I listen to a lot of that show, and this is what we're going to play us out, for we will leave you with a I can't do it will do it live
but don't lie.
It's alright it
I really do a deep dive on that clip and it all stems from the
that he didn't understand what the term place
He found it baffling a feeling, everyone. I guess you know John. I always
The USS Carl Vinson is in the last place. You look.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-18.