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“Where is the line?”


New evidence and whistleblowers further incriminate the President, Republicans are running out of believable excuses, and Joe Biden’s campaign weighs the best response. Then Federal Election Commission Chairwoman Ellen Weintraub talks to Jon about the crime of soliciting foreign interference in a U.S. election.

(Production note: Dan's takes are recorded via phone this episode due to technical difficulties.)

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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such good. Welcome to POD save America, I'm John Fabric, I'm being hyper later in the my interview with Federal Election Commission chairwoman, Ellen Weintraub about the crime of soliciting foreign interference in our election, topical topical First, we'll be talking about all the latest developments in responses from Republicans and Democrats to what very well could the biggest and the dumbest political scandal in american history a few housekeeping notes we got a new episode of love it or leave it the dropped over the weekend. It includes Adam Scott, Nicole, Byer and
KEN Burns Ish take on the great civil war that some Trump supporters have been warning us about. It sounds fun It's also a brand new episode today of America dissected with Abdul El Sayed. It's all about the insane cost of prescription drugs in this country and why the Suitable companies get away with this shit go listen! It is a fantastic episode, please this podcast, if you haven't already and finally, we talked what about twenty twenty here, but there are also very important elections in twenty nineteen, particularly Virginia. Where Democrats have a very good chance of flipping the legislature, which would mean progress on issues like gun control and the ability to draw redraw, gerrymandered congressional maps in twenty twenty one, so if you haven't, please make a donation to vote, save America's gerrymandering fund, it vote, save America dot com, Slash Jerry G e R, r y. We only need to flip two seats in each chamber in Virginia two four Democrats in charge-
So this is one of those funds where a little money is going to go a long way, because these are state legislature, races. We have a few to flip elections in November. Very, very big deal so check it out all right in it's all happening. Uh since we last spoke on Thursday. Even more evidence has emerged that the President direct The scheme involving multiple government officials who attempted to trade America financial and diplomatic support for a promise ukrainian government that they would launch politically motivated investigations into american citizens with the purpose of helping Trump get reelected president and his personal lawyer have basically admitted that they did this. It's been confirmed by the White House Summary of the call between Trump and the President of Ukraine and now we have incriminating text messages between various trump appointed diplomats, as well as the as of at least one more whistleblower who claims to have first hand, information about the arms for investigation scandal. Meanwhile, we associate
Press reported on Sunday night that a couple of Rudy's clients were bragging about their actions to Rudy and Trump, while quote trying to install new management at the top of Ukraine's massive state gas company, plan was to then steer lucrative contracts to companies controlled by trump allies. Damn I can only imagine how hard this news hit. The president who, as you know, has been a passionate foe of corruption, his entire life. But let's start with the news that attorney Mark Zaid, confirmed on Sunday that he's now represent multiple whistle blowers and at the second whistleblower who is not yet filed. A formal complaint has first hand knowledge of some of the allegations. How big of a deal is this when so much of what the original whistle blower told us has already been confirmed? I think you have to be to was of ours has less to do with the specific information we may or may not get about this new green candle, but it does say that Tom's strategy to intimidate report with a walrus Rick Marge,
is failing, because, ultimately, all of that you know there, we had this question in our head how but Trump keeps attacking a special one hour, even though the whistle blowers, what was the worst at it now, basically overtaken by events right where we already have this false resort, we have drums repeated confessions to said crimes on camera on national television? And so why do we care? But the main thing that Trump is doing is he's trying to intimidate additional list. Saying if you come out, I will come after you and at least for this group that we're hearing about now that has not worked, and I think that is the more alarming concern yeah. It also undermines the completely absurd defense and attack by Trump about how the whistle blowers are. You know, partisan, deep state plants who don't have first hand, information, and you know Adam Shifts,
Cahoots with Adam Schiff, and you know all the rest of the deep state gangs try to take down Trump, like the more come forward in the more. They have first hand, information- and you know, and the more that this information is all corroborate, all of the other evidence we have. It does feel like that lessens the effectiveness of the already ridiculous attack. But I don't know what do you think, I'm sure he's going to be a deep state yelling about the deep stay till the very end yeah he well, it is. The question is: is that a matter for anyone other than his supporters who want sort of permission structure to back crime? We need a program permission structure, it just waiting for it in the the deep state, their best target yeah? You know I mean I'm sure we're going to have you know Glenn Beck Chalk Boards and and all the rest of the conspiracies on the right. All of this, depending on who the whistle blowers are, Where they work, but it
and seem like that's going to really hold water with almost anyone else. I mean. I hope, that after the market yeah yeah. Well, it's a desert for democracy is, as for voters is also the test for media by the way, because you know, reporters in the past have had a tendency to jump on some any any kind of with of partisanship on behalf of some of these whistleblowers right like if if they, if it turns out that this one of the whistleblowers were somehow in the Obama administration or even in the Bush administration. Now right, like everything, seems now to be fodder for Trump saying these people are just out to get me. It's not on the level which is itself a bit ironic, I mean it does just for sex, speak to a little bit of the Watergate Senate, ization of a certain generation reporters which is like there's all like secret sources are supposed to be the way in which presidents come down, but we don't need a secret service here, because we have the White House releasing the smoking gun. We have
the knuckleheads texting about it, and we have the president admitting to crimes on television so like I'm for everyone blowing the whistle, although all blowers, whistle or something, but it doesn't really like. The obsession with the secret source is less relevant when the president admitted to the crimes publicly yeah an love. It said this during one of our live shows before, but Donald Trump is deep throat here. So it's. You don't have to worry about that alright Dan, so early last week, cute we did. The perfect call is actually a text turn so you were even more right than you thought at the time. I'm Thursday evening. The House Intelligence Committee released a series of texts provided during ten hours of testimony by Kurt Volker Trump's, former special do Ukraine. The messages between Volker ambassador to the EU to the European Union, Gordon Sunlin in term US ambassador to Ukraine, Bill Taylor are fairly cut and dry here is vulgar.
Texting president, on top aide quote heard from White House assuming president convinced trump. He will investigate slash in quotations, get to the bottom of what happened in twenty. Sixteen, we will nail down date for visit to Washington. Here's some went to Volker quote. I think Potis really wants the deliverable and here's where it gets good. Here's Bill Taylor to Sanlin. Quote. Are we now saying that security assistance and White House meeting are conditioned on investigations and then someone's response call me Taylor, the next day after that call quote, as I but on the phone. I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign and there's someone quote. The president has been clear: no Rocco's of any kind, and then I suggest we stop the back and forth by text and then he suggests and uh
phone call. Then I don't have a legal or law enforcement background, but smells little fishy to me. What do you think I mean your quote, great american television character. Stringer Bell, you No, it's not a mutherfucking criminal conspiracy, because what is happening here we are dealing with the dumbest criminals in bill. Taylor is not dumb because he knows exactly what he was doing when he was. He was basically luring them into admitted to the crimes in writing. Just so, everyone is clear. Is this sort of like yeah let me put the drugs in this bag. In case anyone is listening to the wire and then I'm going to hand through this bag with drugs and you're going to hand me an envelope with money, I can you confirm. Can you confirm just a little our that little are that the drugs in this bag? It's it's heroin in the bag. Can you just repeat that for me to say it closer to my chest,
We have made this point several times on Twitter into us, which is you don't have to text? Call me you can just call. I know it's pretty it's pretty bad, so I mean what possible reason. Does ambassador someone have to be involved? Is such a passionate loyalists to Donald Trump. Who is this guy? What's his deal? Why does he seem to be the one who's trying to protect Donald Trump? Here he is a rich, it was originally for Tron and then he walked away from Trump over one of the many horrible. Trump did but then, when Trump won he bought his way back in with a million dollars in donations and he got the job of ambassador to the European Union which is very strange- to give that very important position to a donor right like American and ships are not great, but there's usually generally a that go to donors and then there's a after I go to clear foreign policy professionals.
And the EU is usually handled by a foreign policy professional- and it's also, well that Trump and this guy with so relevant experience, given that he is been screaming about his support for brexit for several years now. So the whole thing is very it also noting that Ukraine is not a member of the year. Would therefore, someone should really have no authority over this, but he appointed himself to this position when anyone of the State Department asked why he said talk to the press right, so he is a Trump Henchman, essentially- and it's important to know who these people are to give the text some contacts right so Sunland. Is republican mega donor owned a hotel chain, don't a couple million to the inaugural to Trump's inaugural through a shell company, and then rewarded to be. Eu Ambassador which, as you pointed out, you can not need you, like probably shouldn't, be handling the Ukraine portfolio here. Bill Taylor was former ambassador to Ukraine. He was he
is a more of a career diplomat in the Bush, restoration, the Obama, it stration and now for Trump sort of reluctantly took this job after Trump and Rudy had the current Ukraine ambassador Us Ambassador to Ukraine fired before she was supposed to come home so Bill Taylor gets there he's sort of like a longtime diplomat in both kinds of republican and democratic administrations, and is now like pretty horrified that they're all trying to commit these and tries to say so and text, and it's pretty clear that someone is trying to protect from from all this. By saying Mr Trump said no quid pro quos, I'm supposed to say that right here in the text, I mean: how do you? How do you think this adds? These text add to the already pretty airtight case for impeachment here well in the night, but why
the line keeps moving on the Republicans right. So first we heard reports of the call. The idea was well as long as he didn't explicitly ask for a favor. Then it's fine and then transfer a favor and then the next one is well. He is Trump did not explicitly Hi er, Ukraine, military aid to these investigations, and so that was the new line which publisher, like Trump, can not cross. That line are in trouble. Text. Come out, make it just it clear that the exact place here was, if If you create a wanted US military aid which it needs, then it was going to have to do the things that Trump wanted yeah, so we not like it everytime republican, say yeah. It's fine accepting less. This happened that this happens and the texts are rock solid proof that this was a quid pro quo for US military yeah. How much does it matter that someone claimed in the text that there was no quid pro quo? And now
lukens on the Intel Committee, no surprise or saying that Voelker claim the same thing during his testimony that there was no. I was not aware of any quid pro quo at all. How much? How much do you think this matters it's going matter in the same way that he's taking care of the matter is for some, which is it's just you're. Looking for, if you're looking for a way to stick with Trump Dad, this gives you a piece of evidence, even if all of the other and completely runs counter to it. Just going to hang their hat on this very thin, read at this specific wide in this text, but everything else pattern. Behavior is very clear that there is an explicit quid pro well, here involving USA military aid in a meeting with President Trump in exchange for Trump's doing Trump little bidding regards the twenty sixteen election and the twenty twenty election and there is also one more piece of evidence that emerged over the several days from
You a senator alive RON Johnson, who are going talk about later, but Johnson. Basically says that someone came to him said. There was some kind of a quid pro quo. Around military assistance for investigations. Johnson then goes to Trump. And it's like what is this about a quid pro quo and Trump's like no, I would never do that. What are you serious? Are you kidding? Absolutely not so it goes sure that's on Lynn who was saying there was no quid pro quo in the text. Messages to Volker I really believe that there was but was trying to cover it up and so was Trump, which goes to show that, like there wasn't
the moment at the beginning of this scandal where I was like. I wonder if these people are so brazen, and so we can ethically morally bankrupt that they just don't know what that what they're doing is a crime or that it is a severe abuse of power at the very least, but it's clear that they did it's clear from these tax and from a porting about trump that they absolutely didn't, know that this was wrong and that they were active trying to cover it up right right, I mean it's, it's very clear what was happening here. It is not in mystery. Anyone and all the other positions, then the subpoena documents everything are going to fill out the picture, but we know what happened. It is very clear and the question is what, what it, what is Congress going to do about it, they may say that Congress is simply not just Democrats, but will there be any accountability for a very clear skiing to, leverage usr Impala see to help the poor.
Oh campaign of the incoming President States Dan. One more question before we move on to the republican response. Do you believe, like Donald Trump reportedly, does that former dancing with the stars contestants slash current Energy Secretary Rick Perry is in fact the mastermind. Behind this whole sorted scheme, the greatest trick, the devil ever pulled was Rick, Perry, convinced, I think he is a moron when he was pulling all the strings What time does it like it like? It's basically It's not a story that people are going to well, so in What we're referring to in case you missed? This is actually as reported, that on a call with house. Republicans Trump something along the lines of quote. Not a lot of people know but I don't even want to make the call the only reason I made the call was because Rick asked me to something about LNG, liquefied natural gas plant. So I mean
sort of funny that he's blaming Rick Perry, but there is also an uh The way that Perry is involved here, you know I mentioned at the top of the show the The story that a couple of Rudy's clients we're trying to use their connections to Trump and Rudy to push for favorable treatment from the state run natural gas company in Ukraine. It turns out that Rick Perry was also trying to fire. The whole board of this natural gas come It is again run by the state of Ukraine and replace it with at least two republican donors from Texas now Perry claims. This was because you know this natural gas company wasn't as open to western business interests as it should and yet usually, when you try to push for the removal of a whole bunch of people on a state run natural gas board, in Ukraine. You need the full of I don't know,
the IMF, the World Bank, the international community. It's not just the US coming in like a bunch of fucking gangsters and saying hey. Please replace these people on the board. With a couple of our fuqing donors: I guess we should it be this part of it coming out of Rick, Perry, mastermind part, but ultimately the heart of every tree. Scandal that we deal with is someone trying to get rich right. It is. It is never about politics or policy, it's always about profit, and so in the core of this there's the deep state conspiracy, there's the odd trying to take down Joe Biden, but ultimately it's about a bunch of people close to Trump trying to get rich off without a an America yeah in the in the in these two really clients, they've with Trump before they've been at MAR a Lago, they actually helped We were in conversation with the Ukrainians about investigating Joe Biden and then these same people go
to the Ukrainians about the Lord of the natural gas company, and they say, uh, you know, look we're close with Trump and Rudy. Obviously you know Ukraine wants a better relationship with the United States and the board is run by the government of Ukraine. So look, you know it's pretty beneficial for everyone to do business with us. I mean That is how they are using their connections and Trump and Giuliani like all of this, is so fucking corrupt. In the audacity, of them to be doing this side hustle, while their whole point supposedly is to clean up a king. Corruption in Ukraine into accused the bidens of corruption, while Rudy and his clients and his trump buddies, are running a side hustle the whole time it's uh, it's not great. It oscars this element of the scam So I think, speaks to the need for
the impeachment inquiry, because if we think this is the only time that a bunch of trump crony these are prostituting the american policy process in order to make money. That's insane right like that, is obviously we just stumbled on this script through some other corruptions kindle yeah. So there is grift happening everywhere and We should be looking for it and I don't think we should a short circuit this before we at least do some due diligence to see where else this is happening, because there are the intersection of lobbyists running several agencies. You have donors with full access. You have Tom Green Lighting said corruption, and so I think, an important part we're going to use the same process to tell a story about Trump. This is an important part of the story. Is bigger than Ukraine also, if the argument for impeachment is that this is a serious abuse of power and it is not the first time he has abused his powers, not someone off
and that was an accident or whatever else. I think it is important to build a case that Trump has been abusing the power of the press. And see over and over for personal, political and financial gain. That's it that's the story of Donald Trump's presidency. That's the story of his campaign. It's the story of his whole fucking life, but I think that's going to be the ultimate frame. Uh for democrats- and you know we have all this evidence. This is all the Ukraine scandal, he said, there's probably a ton of other scandals under every single government agency. There is so let's talk about the republican response to this scandal, which is, been decidedly mixed. Here's outstanding lead from the Washington Post, quote a torrent of impeachment develop is triggered a reckoning in the Republican party paralyzing many of its office holders, as they weigh their political futures, legacies and, ultimately, their allegiance to a president who has held them captive across the country, Most republican lawmakers have responded to questions about Trump's contact with varying degrees of silence, shrug shoulders or pain, defenses
so I'd say one of the most pain defenses came from Iowa Senator Joni Ernst who's up in two thousand and twenty when one of her constituents confronted her during a town hall, and I think we have a clip here of the question and then we'll get to Senator Ernst answer. We have him going after Ukraine, oh well, if you want weapons to protect from my buddy in Russia, then you're going to have to do what I wanted to do and investigate Joe Biden now? this morning. We have him going, oh well, we should you know going to be in the white here in the next couple weeks and yet you know we're going to have you know he shouldn't investigate Joe Biden too, because I'm sure there was some other stuff over there. And then we get conspiracy theories and we get lies, and then we get everything else, except What we really need to know, and well, We really need him to do an it, just where is the line when Are you guys going to say enough an stand up?
you know what I'm not back in any of this. And then we have Joni Ernst trying to answer this okay So President Trump, if. I can say yay, nay, whatever president is going to say with the president, is going to do it's up to us as members of Congress to continue working with our allies, making sure that we remain strong in the face of adversity mean that's what we I have to do is continue to encourage those other countries, so that's we will continue to do mail. It Velvet Joni Ernst, hey you whatever, what ones that I was awful now I do. I mean I had to give such credit to that question or who is
situated of Joni Ernst reason I o, and you know I think she put people's frustrations and also why Donald Trump's actions are so deeply disturbing and rye. Blue impeachment, and you know she, she articulated it probably better than anyone. I've heard and just asking the question: where is the line? Where is the line? And you know Joni Ernst could not answer. Do you think Dan? This is why no one from the White House or the republican leadership was willing to go on any of the Sunday shows this weekend. Why are out? Why are so? Many of them are afraid to say anything about this? It is actually notable that no one did it, because really the fastest way to Trump's heart is to be willing to absolutely their shirts off on tv in his defense, and it says a lot that no one was willing to step up to that task, and so there is nothing to say it is like the president committed a crime. He confessed to the crime. He is
threatening whistleblowers he's doubling down on the crimes. So you want to impeach before uh, pressuring Ukraine to investigate your well in for in for a penny in for a pound I've tried to do it too, and so I don't know what like there is nothing say you know when one of story stories that says no one wants to be Kevin Mccarthy Witch is it should basically I want to, pin there is no, there is not. There is no answer. You can say that I embarrassing, because that condition defending an enabling this crime and corruption is embarrassing and E. In most Republicans, no that. Did you see this morning that Kevin Mccarthy Kevin Mccarthy himself again? He was he was on Fox and friends, and they asked the president calling on China to investigate Joe Biden and and he was like He didn't say that, just like I the Kevin Mccarthy has just gone to a place where, like he's, basically
telling us things. We see with our eyes and hear with our ears. Just are not true. Kevin Mccarthy is going to pretend None of this shit is happening. It is like a step beyond the usual I have Paul Ryan, his predecessor, used to do. The old I haven't read the the this morning I haven't read the transcript. I didn't see that the president's answer that I don't pay attention all the stuff which of course was a alive but at least it was a comforting lie. We knew the Paul Ryan was lying and we all moved given Kevin he's going an extra step. I'm a guy he's, like you know what that's just, not they're like well, here's the transcript certain. It says it right here. He said the word, though, do us a favor though no no. I didn't see that. I don't see that I mean this will that's gonna, work we can regard the is. I think he may have, I'm I'm sure when Paul right and left the republican leadership he left
note for correcting the desk and one of those things probably why the best way to deal with Trump is to tell the press. You don't read the news, as you put out all right, read the news and said that I think has been Mccarthy took Paul Ryan to whether and just it does not read the news. He had no idea what is happening. Kevin Mccarthy, a newspaper newspaper, I don't know what a day that so we're going to try and his former communicate they'd Brendan Buck, had an interesting quote in one of these stories where he said they working with the president, with no tolerance for anyone to criticize him, they being the Republicans they're, getting stuck wrapped around the axle of weather.
President was wrong or whether he even did it in the first place. So I you know, I want to ask you this. Do you think that I mean, I think there Brendan has a point right, that some of these Republicans are just terrified of speaking out because and we'll talk about it running the second that the president will just unload on them right, he'll, tweet about them, he'll attack them all the right wing radio host will attack them. Everyone on Fox will attack them. We'll get a primary challenge, so so fear drives a lot of this. But then you know this morning You know we haven't talked about this, but late last night the president basically decided US troops are going to immediately pull out of northern Syria and and he's going to basically allow the Turks too in made northern Syria and the Turks want to sort of go after the Kurds who have been our allies in this fight, and so basically, all these
is fighters have been our allies, are going to be just left to the mercy of you know the invading turkish army here, and you know, Trump said: fuck, you! I don't care, I'm just going to abandoned, realize here and this morning. All of these, I ton of Republicans have spoken out against Trump move here, wires, he abandoning our allies. This is part of our national security. This is horrible for him to do. He has to reassess. So none of these Republicans were too scared of speaking out against Trump this morning when it came to Syria and Turkey, so why what do we think is driving their reluctance on on this scandal?
in Ukraine. Scandal, hey dear before we get to that eventually, Pomeranians aid Brendan Buck he's been quoted in all of these stories. About Republicans, I just think it's so funny that Paul Ryan's top advisers becomes a spokesperson for republican cowardice or friend, thanks. Thanks was well yeah thanks for speaking up now at least yeah yeah yeah, it is about it. I mean this is like the one way in which went public in MIKE three Trump orthodoxy has remained is on and policy right. This is the first thing that Republican did together when Trump was elected, was working with Democrats to past russian sanctions because they look for The trump would unilaterally get rid of them. They have pushed back on other Trump has died, and so this is like, as the party is on
into never tempers maggot folks supply siders are train populace. The one thing that still ties most of them together, at least in the conference of Washington, is neoconservative foreign poll. So sort of like get to all go back to the same cocktail. Trump was elected. I mean I guess, but the Ukraine scandal is also a scandal about foreign policy, like I find it completely insane that the Republican Party right the party that has told you know it is feared. And aggression for so long and his supposed to be the tough party right and now under Donald Trump is supposed to be. The nationalist party right. The people are saw, and we're all about nationalism and US borders are super important, blah blah. This is the party that now says it's: okay
President United, this is also by the way the Party of civil Libertarians right would protect you from federal government overreach, that's the Republican Party for a long long time, but when the president of the United States, to go to a foreign government foreign? including authoritarian foreign governments in China and says hey. Why don't you go investigate american citizens to help me out? and basically then jeopardize our national security in our foreign policy to say. Okay, we will only provide you mill. Terry, financial and diplomatic support to your country that is facing russian aggression. If, if you, Give me the investigations. I need to get myself reelected, somehow, the Nationalist Party, the tough part either. We can party is totally fine with this. No big deal whatsoever federal government, the federal government asking foreign governments to investigate the lives of a can citizens no problem super conservative? It's like it is
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statements matter. How positive of a sign should we take them to be? I don't want to give people credit doing the bare fucking minimum. Like the amount of by, but people were on, Twitter were Carving Mitt Romney into Mount Rushmore for sending one tweet. If he votes to convict trump, then he gets full credit. If he used his power in any way to push for accountability on Trump, then I would give him credit if he were to partner with a Democrat on legislation that would uhm. You know curb some of Trump's powers or you know just a subpoena in the Senate, to ensure that we have some oversight. I think gives credit, but it just is not true that the How are the founders granted to a co? Equal branch of government is sad tweets like it's just like I'm glad he did it like he should like we.
It's is better than not doing it, but let's actually do so thank you. You should not get the huge amount of credit for saying the obvious truth. Yeah, I mean, I guess my one this is. It is not super useful to sit around. Debating whether we give someone read it or not- or whether you know their statement about Trump, is a sign that they're going to convict or not like. We can sit around all day debating this and predicting to me. Mitt Romney statement forget about how we think about Mitt Romney. It is a politically useful statement because, as we are trying to build a case against Donald Trump, not just for a potential Senate trial but for the most and trial, which is the twenty twenty election we are trying to show
Not only has what he done, Pist off Democrats, because we're just partisans, but that there are enough republic, as conservatives, never trump Republicans wherever they may be out there who find this behavior appalling, because they are going to be some voters who think to themselves. Ok. Well, it's not just the Democrats, criticizing Donald Trump I also noticing some of these republican senators that I know or republican pundits that I am to see on tv also criticizing Donald Trump so Maybe this one is worse than the other ones like. I find the statement useful and I find it like. We should take Mitt, Romney statement right now, put it in bunch of ads run them in Maine in Colorado and Arizona and all the places where republican senators are vulnerable and up in twenty twenty and say the parties, two thousand and twelve nominee thinks that what Donald Trump did is uh. What is your senator have to say about it? Where is your senator stand instead of just hiding, and so I think
Mitt Romney statement is useful and that we can use it to pressure some of the other vulnerable Senate. Republicans we or it might lead what Mitt Romney might do. We have no fucking idea, but I think you know what we should do is welcome it and then use it to pressure these other Republicans. Ok, you have convinced me. I allowed my never ending. Should Mitt Romney to cloud my judgment here. Yeah you know me, I mean during the twenty twelve campaign. I was always the big Romney defender love the guy yeah, you're. The one who you are like this being stuff seems off limits, look we strongly on the on the roof of the car all the time you know you might want to get it to get that. To your point in addition to using it to pressure Senate candidates, we should also use it in
the impeachment ads that exists only in our brains do target Romney Clinton voters in core battleground states, because that is a group. That's going to be very hard to hold onto and were Trump has a chance to making inroads to nullify. The Democrats may make with some other groups, and so Bi county. Mitt Romney say that it is terrible. For whom pull the lever for Mitt Romney about too many years ago, could seem like a good use of money. We don't have and can't seem to find it yeah, and I will say that after complaining about this, for, like the last several days, I notice that you know Bill Kristol's group,
Uh is running some ads right now. These are a bunch of never trump Republicans who are running a few ads about impeachment, and then I saw a report that Tom's tires group is going to put a couple one million dollars into ads in battleground states about impeachment as well, which is a positive sign. There could be a lot more of that. We could be doing all this a lot faster people should be producing like digital ads, even if there's not a huge by behind them. Just so you know the media covers it, but like there should be a lot more creativity around the ads here and there should be a lot faster than they are. But it's good to at least see a couple groups are starting to play here, but it is sad that Bill Kristol is the one coming to our rescue. Yeah yeah, it is so another defensive trump. Is that he was just joking about skiing Ukraine in China to investigate american citizens. This was the brain
child of Marco Rubio, who, before losing to Donald Trump, suggested that he has a small penis and shouldn't be trusted with the Nuclear Codes Dan. What do you think is the Donald Trump just joking use that was the brainchild of Rubio, but also repeated by Jim Jordan. I think Senator Roy I'm from Missouri Couple other Republicans, just joking just trolling Us- is that going to work. I mean that had like a two percent chance of working. If it had not been reported mere hours after Trump said this, that by CNN that did actually do it and there was a call transcript all the secret might how server that contain the information. So no, I do not think it's going to work Rubio says this about China. That was just a joke and then the very next day, which always happens: trump tweets look. I do think that China should engage in investigations,
you know, I don't think it's politics, it's just corruption, so he wasn't joking. He fucking told us, he wasn't joking, you dipshit God I hate Marco rubio- I am he sucks. He sucks Really we have the RON Johnson defense, which is to on television and repeat all the memes that your crazy uncle posts on Facebook here is the extreme between the Wisconsin Republican and meet the press host Chuck Todd. That is why Trump is so upset. He had this false narrative that resulted in him being set up by James Comi and on January 16th. Then he has center counsel appointed that is, hamper his entire ingress, senator hired his entire. Entire administration and now, once he's been, that was proven false he would like, and I would like to Know- and I know his supporters would like to Know- where did this all come from- who planted that false,
senator. I have a. I have my third letter into the inspector general intelligence. Anybody asking to just confirm just confirm so investigating those leaks that Peter struck about me, I center, I a no idea again now I don't dance dance set up. One reason why why a Fox news, conspiracy, propaganda stuff, is popping up on here. I have no idea, I've got it. I have no idea why we're going on here is it that is it's interesting, applying exactly why President Trump is upset and why his supporters are upset media please answer the question that I asked you, instead of trying to make Donald Trump feel better here that you're not criticizing wow chalk, I've never heard Chuck in
Over the years we've known him that angry about anything that was that was something I mean did did RON Johnson did he have to do that? like what what does it say about being a Republican in today's republican Party that that is your performance on meet the press. When you are asked about a current scandal involving the president's abuse of power and you go back to the fucking, you know Peter struck texts and the idea that James Comi set up Donald Trump in the fucking Russia Investigation, which was conducted by Republican Bob Muller and a bunch of FBI agents in the intelligence community and the FBI is somehow a fucking conspiracy, because you see that on a bunch of right wing websites. I think it speaks to two elements of modern Republican through public. Isn't. The first is the odd
This is one right yeah. Everyone knows that Trump is going watch. What they're saying very well, may tweet them out of existence, and so they're all performing for him, not for the voters back home not for swing voters who may be watching not for the moderator of the performing for and that that matters that sex, how they think- and we know Trump's going to watch because he asked we are all the shows in Washington later he tweeted about face the nation train hours after it was on so got back from the golf course whenever he did on Sunday, sat down on his couch, fired up, face the nation and watched it afterwards, which that's the first person to ever do that in american history.
And so but the second phenomenon is it's the Fox news effect, which is, we think all the time about how Fox NEWS affected voters, but we also don't let out Fox NEWS will affect republican politicians and they have moved into the fox bubble. Ron Johnson believes these things, because he gets all of this information from a right wing propaganda bubble? And so he, I think, probably a little bit like Kevin Mccarthy's rigid by earlier, is like Fox news. If I used like news sort of as a catchall for all of the terrible propaganda but tickling, the republican turbo It is happening at the highest levels of american government, and that is that shouldn't scare people, because our government decisions are being made. Our policy outcomes are being dramatically impacted, not just my house, but in Congress by the things that Sean Hannity Tucker crossing the bar Ingram say on the nightly basis, not scary
yeah, I mean, and there's no better example of this forget about RON Johnson. Then the abuse of power that the president may be impeached over right, like one one of the investigate he asked for was into the bidens, which is also part of a conspiracy theory that you know if I can Peter Schweitzer put in a book somewhere. The other investigation is up into so the idea that Ukraine fuqing framed Russia. This this medicine country next door that has invaded it and you has somehow had it together to frame Russia for interference in the twenty sixteen election, not The idea that you know I know there are a lot of them are pointing to some political story that can I can Vogel Road last year or whatever You know. Perhaps there was people in Ukraine who, like expose Paul Manafort's crimes, because they fuckin' hate Paul Manafort, because he worked for a russian pop.
In Ukraine. So they say you know that they they were helping the Clinton campaign by exposing Paul crimes, not not not. That Donald Trump believes there's a server that Hillary The server is hidden somewhere in the Ukraine and, if find the server and and look. Into it. And we're going to we're going to discover that it wasn't Russia all along that are FBI in our intelligence agencies and members of both administrations, the Obama administration and the Trump administration. All of these people in the federal government, even people that Donald Trump appointed this whole time or part of a spears to just frame Russia and Donald Trump for election interference in twenty. Sixteen, that's what he believes. He believes that Rudy Giuliani is that and no small amount of the Republican Party Funking believes that that's what we're dealing with here, not great it is not great. What do you think Republicans could be doing right now, like what would the best strategy here be?
from republican politicians who are trying to get through this aside from what we would like them to do, which is show some fucking courage and say that it's wrong and that you're going to hold the president accountable. Well, I think you could say it's wrong but say it doesn't respond with impeachment, which I'm surprised that more of them haven't done. It so obvious to do because it allows you to state the obvious trump card. That is indefensible. It is obvious and indefensible add the don't offend, don't like rap your cell in short, for something to our pretzel or whatever, trying to explain why? It's ok for presidents to pressure foreign governments interfering with elections, it is not that is like on the list of hypothetical impeachable offenses that
Probably you are right, like yeah, obviously what it is, but you can say if you're republican, it was wrong. The president should not have done it, but it doesn't reach the level of impeachable offense, particularly this close to an election. We should let them voters have their say and then it's a pivot. In fact, the Democrats for focusing on this person obsession instead of doing xy or z, improve it like raising wages or building infrastructure, whatever it is, but they can't do that because Trump will bro I noticed that yeah so they're stuck in this. You know on this very sad short menu of options that we outlined, but Marco Rubio joke the hide from the press, the RON Johnson conspiracy theory about there's the obvious answer is not available, then, because Trump won't, let it be available to them and it's because they don't belong to a political party anymore. They belong to an authoritarian cult
That's the truth! That's that's why they can't that's why they are not allowed to criticize dear leader, even to say that something he did was wrong, but it doesn't deserve impeachment. They can't do that. I also think once once you say that it's wrong for the President knighted states to ask a foreign country to interfere in our elections to investigate american citizens to do this as a quid pro quo, forgetting the United States is military, financial and diplomatic support? You do that have to answer well, if it's so wrong like why, just going to let him do it. And, yes, we have an election in two thousand and twenty where we can decide this, but we don't have any confidence that it's going to be a free and fair election, because the president is actively trying to rig it. That's that's what he needs to be impeached, for. I think that strategy only If you can hang your hat on the non? It's not a quid pro quo text
right. I think you cannot admit to all of the facts that are at play here and then not trump accountable through removal from office like You can't really say the President blackmailed Ukraine Did you get a political investigating investigation. By isn't, he did that, but I'm not mama countable, but you can sort of you have to admit that some set of facts to do it. Otherwise it's impossible. But people either are woefully making their members of like a critical, mostly willfully. Here the fact or are just like that for himself across all the alright. Let's talk about impeachment is affecting the democratic primary, especially Joe Biden. This is from New York Times over the weekend in a piece about how his campaign has struggled over how to respond quote. Mr Biden himself was equivocating. He wanted to defend and protect his son, but I believe the president was beating him into a dirty fight and as a Four hundred here to congressional tradition, MR by
he was wary of acting hastily as an impeachment inquiry was getting underway. The binding campaigns tense deliberations reached a climax last weekend when Mister Biden agreed to give a scorching rebuttal to me. Trump in a speech on Wednesday in Reno Nevada, but he it well into the evening on the EAST coast, and it was mostly lost amid another long day of Trump interruptions some by allies, it seemed too little too late a case study in political indecision, so Dan on You read this and you see buying equivocating on whether Trump should be impeached and the Biden. Writing. Saturday, night op ads in the Washington Post and responding to Trump tweets that are like two days old and you think maybe Not the most nimble response on the other, there were two Fox NEWS polls this week in the show Biden, winning Wisconsin and beating Trump by more than any other Democrat there and holding a huge lead in South Carolina? So what do you think Is he handling this? Well, we all in the in the media and on Twitter over reacting? What do you think I like that? You consider
two groups of people, the media in Twitter. I don't want to lump us right in with the media. You know, yeah, I want to just provide a little can text. First then, I think underlie that New York Times story, which is anytime been working in a campaign and the candidates family, you can parlay can't in conversation, that's when things got really messy. It just gets very hard for campaigns to make clearly thought out nimble decisions when the impact of those decisions, it's not about what happens in polls or what happens in those things, what happens on the kitchen table on their family and job. In incredibly close to his son Hunter. Obviously they together, they have been through an unimaginable amount of tragedy in their lives, and so like. I just think we have to recognize that the fact that this is about I'm sign makers are much more complicated thing, so we sit here and say you should be doing. Xy and Z should do it. This fast understand the decision making
process is more complicated than it would be. If this was just about. You know some other false attack right and so we've just anytime code canvas families involved. Things can very complicated very quickly, but not by having said that the response is black it on every level and it's like they're playing by an old set of rules by responding with speeches in Washington, Post, OP, EDS and they're, even by the old set of rules, they are performing right. Giving your speech your big response on the West Coast at night make and that lizard actually, maybe on Sunday morning to say that in a Washington, Post, Op Ed, I was is forced to remember the washing clothes had about that age. It's so in like
open to catch it Saturday, night uh, I was just out and because I'm a loser and missed going to bed and was reading the news I Saturday night And- and I just seem like what Joe Biden as an op ed, that he wrote the Washington Post what this- and you know, I read it before I go to bed, it's a fine op, Ed, it, doesn't break any new ground, doesn't say anything interesting, fine whatever, and then I wake up next day and, of course, All the Sunday shows that happened all this other news and you can't find single comment about that Op Ed anywhere. No one is talking about it. The people have read it. It is made no news, and it just to me. I don't mean to harp on our bed cuz, it's just a second. But who cares? But to me it is indicative of a problem with their campaign has had beyond just a scandal, which is they are not very nimble they do now move quickly. They do not like you said they do not play by the rules of
is media age now. Part of this is because they believe that the the gang of people who were on twitter and part of the media, whether it's reporters or progressive act, This are always overly hysterical about everything that we're all in a bubble. All their voters, who are you know, Non College, educated white, Americans, black Americans, Latino Americans right like their older voters. Their coalition is not always on Twitter freaking out about every development in the new cycle, and I get that stand that I understand that that is their coalition. But what they don't realize is that what has happening on Twitter and on the news and it is- is driving the media. That eventually reaches all
voters in this country is shaping the narrative and they seem to be very reluctant to be quick enough, an bold enough to shape that narrative. As events are happening. There always seems to be a bit behind the eight ball and I'm trying to figure out why that is. I think there is a happy medium somewhere between a campaign basically RT. If you agree, and campaign is right now, yeah! yes, I know I still you're right, you're joking making the separately I can. I can do that, and I think this is just like I think, is an extreme example of this. I think this speaks to democratic, call communications more broadly, there's something very worries which is in twenty. Nineteen pull communication is not public relations, it's modern information and where the press is only a small part of
strategy to persuade people, so Biden is in this mix. The trunk is spending millions of dollars in digital ads, which are, he is protecting himself by attacking by in convincing targeted, said the voters in battle creek at all costs this country did you buy this car and he is doing it unimpeded, I'm responding to and you just the Democrat too, for too many traffic campaigns. Their strategy is talk to the press and the republican strategy interest to talk to people and put money behind it and when you play by the old set of rules you were going to- and, like I said, they're, not even playing by them, particularly well and to the point I made earlier about that why this is complicated, is to find his very smart eight people, we work with yeah campaigns where, and so. Sometimes it's not in any campaign. He Tom is what the total of the parts and so which often speaks to
organization right, and I am you talking bout nimbleness and I am not particularly good nautical metaphors, but they're in aircraft carrier right. It takes a long time to turn. They have a lot of people your mind, around a very long time, and you want to be something I don't know what it. What you but something was more nimble than aircraft carrier that turns more quickly so react more quickly and that's particularly true this Mediaedge against someone like Trump, who is hiring in new version of the new attack issue. Every five seconds, there's also a strategic issue here, which you know Biden, sort of voice too during one of his fund raisers. That was quoted in one of these pieces where he said you know he basically his lesson from twenty. Sixteen is you know, Trump pulled Hillary into the mud with him, and so every time Trump said something crazy. She had to respond, which is something that we've talked about a lot, which was a problem right. Is that, like Trump says, something races, Taylor?
give a speech about Trump's racism and fit. The headline is Trump says something offensive and here's Hillary Clinton's response, and it's not really helpful to her campaign, because it's always just her responding to every crazy thing that Donald Trump tweets So what by and take from that is, I don't know get down into the mud with Donald Trump. I don't want to respond to every bulshit thing. He does, and I understand that- and I understand that- and I know it to a point. I agree that you don't want to go tit for tat with Donald Trump and you don't want to respond to every fucking tweet that Donald Trump sends out everyday, because if the campaign is about small things, he wins. If it's about big things we win, I keep saying this right, but this is different. This is not a small thing. This is not Donald Trump saying something offensive. This is Donald Trump Interfere
checking to make sure that we don't have free and fair elections in twenty twenty because he wants to rig it any wants. Whatever help he can get to rig it, whether it is the attorney general of the United States or the government of Ukraine or the government of China. Whoever can help him. He is going to use the power of the presidency to make sure that we don't have a free and fair election in two thousand and twenty, but he has every advantage that the presidency gives him and doesn't give him according to the law, but he's going to take any way to try to win this fucking election, and there is nothing bigger than that and it's part of Joe Biden's message that if he wants it to be right, Joe Biden is the one who's saying. This is a fight for the soul of the country, and it is Donald Trump who is uniquely bad even more so than your typical Republican. Donald Trump is uniquely bad. He is a threat to our democracy. He is a threat to the world
o, what better example of Donald Trump being a threat to our democracy in the world than what he has done in Ukraine, Joe Biden should be all over this talking about it. Every single fucking day. He should have a new topper to his stump speech every single morning. They should be pumping out videos from the pain over and over again new creative videos. They should be, he should be doing interviews all the time right, like a nimble campaign, would see what Donald Trump has done as right in the there we'll house. This is in Joe Biden's message, we'll house right now. It is it to make it about him and his family either. That's the other thing right, like I've been saying this whole part. It's not just about done from asking for an investigation into his political opponents. Don't drop is asking foreign governments to investigate american citizens. Yes, it happened a Joe Biden this time, but next time I could happen to Lizabeth, warn people to judge Kamel harassed or any
American, who disagrees with Donald Trump. That is what is at stake here. The other elements of this for the binding campaign is by this campaign, is very explicitly hooked. His candidacy to collectability yes and here you have There'S- probably no better validation and Joe Biden's electability argument at least in terms of public perception than the fact that Donald Trump is so scared of running into a bind, he engaged in a multi, faceted ham handed international criminal conspiracy to try to sync by his candidacy right, like it seems pretty obvious, and so like you point about some other things they should be doing is I do think they need like there's Offense element of this, where they are making this about their message: they're using it to raise money online. So they very much need to do the biggest story in America and
spending money digitally too. Even if you're not doing it to defend yourself but to raise money and build up your supporter base, it could be that's why they do. The second thing is, I think, one lesson. Two thousand and sixteen you don't have to follow Trump down into every rabbit hole, but you better be sure to arm your supporters with the faction. They need to defend you when these conspiracy theories start spreading on social media and so explainer videos, graphics thing could bind supporters can share on Facebook, Twitter Instagram wherever else or even interesting,
Station the water cooler that would explain why Biden call to fire the prosecutor had nothing to do with his own business. In fact, probably put his set the company, the designs of the board on a greater legal yeah like the factual all on his side. They are not being marshaled as far as I can tell by the campaign in a way in a digitally from the way to combat what is truly a wildfire. Period spreading on social media and look you know. I started this by talking about the polls and it is true that these two poles that released over the weekend do not show any real damage to Joe Biden's candidacy. He's far out in the lead in south, Carolina he's on top in Wisconsin still beating Trump by a few more points than Sanders or Warren in that poll. But I also think it's still early, be there's uh
polls that when they ask you know investor's business daily did a poll that said you know: do you think the Department of Justice should investigate bite and a son? Yes, fifty seven, no thirty, seven Monmouth, a plurality of Americans say it is quote probably true. That Biden quote put pressure on ukrainian officials to get them to not to investigate his son's business dealings there. Forty two seven. So there's a lot of people who don't know yet, but that's still a plurality who think that he did Biden put pressure on the ukrainian government, and so these these This might not be making a dent in the horse race or buying standings. Right now immediately, but this is going to wear over. This is exactly what happened to Hillary Clinton, with the email scandal and that's the real danger here and we talk about electability in the general like to me one element of electability is: is your campaign
to be nimble enough to respond to the dirtiest campaign in history from Donald Trump. Are you going to be ready to respond? Are you going to be fast and nimble and understand, as you said, Dan, that this is information warfare? That's what this is about. And you need every campaign that wants to be. The democratic nominee needs to understand that. I think I think by that test. We would both agree that joins campaign is not met it. Yet. No, we also haven't seen any of the other campaigns tested in this moment, yet It's also true right like it, and so we just don't know like we. I think rightfully have praised Elizabeth Warren for running the best campaign in the race today. Well, we also had to see her tested like that and yeah, so it just before we make conclusions and by
definitely not the best candidate or shouldn't be the nominee or whatever else we he is facing a task. No one else has he needs to do better, but he's the only one who's been in this tradition today, but you presume it should point out that everyone is going to whoever our nominee is going to face a coordinated election interference. Bluemel involve the american government farm yes, the it's. It is very high likelihood that whoever the de Craddick nominee is Donald. Trump will somehow order an investigation into that campaign, whether it's with the help of his foreign autocrat pals or his his buddy. The attorney general, You know whether it's like Kazakhstan, you know investigating Elizabeth Warren or Bill Barr investigating MER P, like it's going to happen.
To happen, or at least at the very least. If it doesn't happen, we should be prepared for it to happen and all those campaigns should figure out what their plan is and how they would respond, and hopefully it is better than how bad news responded. Far, but, of course it also still is early and- and you know by and still has time to to mount a better response. So that's our hope. That's our hope. That's our hope. All right, we, come back. We will have my interview with Fec Chairwoman, Allen right is brought you by quip. What actually makes a better toothbrush industrial strength Claims of miraculous trendy ingredients, multiple modes. If you ask your dentist, they'll tell you it's less about the brush and more about how you use it, bring that one right. You bet. That's why I quit was created by dentist and product designers to focus on what actually matters for your oral health, healthier habits.
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good for you, a smiley face for Tommy. My high Janice said that she's a big fan of quick and thinks that they're good yeah. I ask my dentist too. I was like yeah, I can think of myself. You know they tell us the dentist recommended, but are they just bull us turns out? They're not true turns out they fact. Checker quip starts at just twenty five dollars and you'll get your first refill free at get quip dot. Com cricket. This is a simple. Support our show and start brushing better, but you have to go to get quip q. U I dot com cricket to get your first refill free go right now to get quip dot. Com cricket Erica brought to you, as always, by the cash app fastest and easiest way to pay people back the greatest app in the history of all of the apps, it's your number one as your number one app throw all your other apps away and just have your phone just walk around with your phone in the cash app. That's all you need not angry birds, not maps. Sorry, you probably need your pod. Tattoo to give that that's important one cash apps better anyway? If you download this app, if for some,
really odd reason, you don't have it on your phone. Already you put in the code, pod, save or Spencer or Spencer. Isn't real five dollars goes to five dollars goes to donors choose which is helping to supply classrooms all across the country with the supplies that they need I'll tell you I don't mean cash stories, because this is the one period of time where I haven't had to use the cash out because I'm still slow using my Vegas winnings past, just I'm still paying people back with a windfall going on with your hands they're they're out there, making a windfall make it rain. I got three letters for you: hi, our yes, no then reach that number whatever. That number is that it had it shut up about the has to be that I lost money, hey, trump runs the government who let them and you can you know what to do. He doesn't but today he made suicide squad. Anyway, you should download. On the part. Today we are very happy to have the chairwoman of the Federal Election Commission Ellen Weintraub. Thank you, so for joining us. Thank you, John. So
June. You released the following statement. Let me make something percent clear to the american public and anyone running for office. It is illegal for any and to solicit, accept, receive anything of value from a foreign national. In connection with the: U S election, you just retweeted, statement again last week. Why do you feel you have to keep reiterating this base point about the law. You know we are in an interesting moment in in our democracy, John, and I think that, as chair of the SEC, one of my duties is to make sure that the public and all political actors are well informed about the law make sure that we are one hundred percent clear on what the law is and where the lines are, and I am really hoping that people will hear me and they will listen to me and they will follow the law. Obviously, out in the June statement was around when the President told George Stephanopoulos, famously that
He might again accept foreign assistance in the twenty twenty election and, of course, last week, was right in the middle of this latest Ukraine scandal how much is this news surprised you Do you think what do you? What was your? What's your reaction to this bin without get? into the details of the case, because I know that you can. Yes, I am I'm not going to comment on any individuals conduct, but I do think that we saw in the twenty sixteen. Action, that there were foreign actors who were trying to interfere with our elections and or until This community has warned us that we will see it again in twenty twenty. I was reading just yesterday that the Iranians are now trying to hack into political databases. So who knows where all of this is going to be coming from, but we need to
We all on high alert. It is an all hands on deck moment for our democracy and I think all of us in government who have any role to play in trying to prevent foreign interference in our elections. Keeping american elections for Americans really need to be stepping up right now. So in your statement, you also point out that the founding fathers anticipated the very problem of foreign interference in american elections. Why were they concerned? Why is this such a big deal? Well, it is a big deal because we're an important country, and even back before we were important. George Washington in his farewell address, warned against the insidious wiles of foreign influence. The jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake since history, and experience proved that foreign influence is one of the most baneful photos of republican government, and we have one of the leading cases in this area,
the a bloomin case. Interestingly enough, the author of the opinion was then judge, Kavanaugh no friend of campaign finance regulation But when it came to foreign influence, he chose an entirely different attack on the problem and was very clear on the importance of american citizens being able to define are american political community and making sure that we are the ones who are making decisions in our elections. We do not want far in spending in our elections. We don't want. An interference in our elections. This is sometimes described as meddling, but it's really a much more serious problem than that as a major superpower. Obviously, there are many countries around the World you feel like they might have a stake in who are leaders are and how our policies get shaped, and we need to make sure that these are decisions that we as Americans are making for ourselves. So the law makes illegal for for foreign national to directly or indirectly quote make a contribution,
donation of money or other thing of value to a campaign? Can information such as opposition, research, polling or politically rated investigations, be legally considered things of value in your opinion. Well, there are number of court decisions on what can be considered a thing of value in light of other statutes and some of those directly address information as a thing of value. There is also FCC press. Events on this topic, where we have looked at polling data at opposition research at an activist contact list at mailing lists, something can be intangible and still be a thing of value in uh. Advisory opinion that the FCC issued in two thousand and seven. The commission recognized the broad scope of the foreign national contribution, prohibition and
but even where the value of a good or a service, maybe nominal or difficult to ascertain such contributions are nevertheless band, and it's important that if you go back to the bloomin decision to note what a small amount at was was at there? We were looking at Benjamin Bloom in a canadian citizen who wanted to spend three dollars three individual hundred dollar contributions and wanted to copy a bunch of flyers and hand them out in central park, and at no point while case was litigated all the way up to the Supreme Court? Did anyone say? Oh that's, just too inconsequential, that's the minimus! We don't need to worry about that. No any thing of value that comes from a foreign national and comes into our electoral system is a problem hi. How do how do you all determine what constitutes either a contribution or what constitutes a finger value right like for, for example, if some
and say, ordered a politically motivated investigation. That investigation, of course, may turn up nothing, in which case Maybe there would be no value to that individuals campaign and yet the intent would clearly be too. Get something of value to help ones campaign. So how do you make those determinations in individual cases? Well, individual cases. We look at the facts of the of the particular case and some things may not be very valuable. That's that is certainly true. We would have to assess that in the context of the individual case, but we would normally at is this something that people normally pay money for. Is this something that is going to cost someone something to produce, so it costs are incurred in connection with the thing of value that it plainly it has that value and the fact that something is not terribly valuable. You know that might go into
decision as to how far the commission wanted to go in terms of investigating or or penalizing it, but the foreign national band is the artist and one of the strongest prohibitions that we have in the federal Election Campaign ACT and and it's one that the commission has historically taken very seriously yeah on the solicitation and of course you know it's hard to value something when you are soliciting at it's not clear what It may not be clear what the value is, but soliciting something of value from a foreign national is plainly prohibited under our law. Right, so a long standing rule that when information comes to the attention of the Department of Justice indicating a probable violation of the federal Election Campaign ACT quote, the department will apprise the commission of such information at the earliest opportunity. The Justice Department did not do this in the
ace of the whistleblower complaint and a former solicitor General Neal Katyal, has described this as a cover up. Are you concerned about this, were you surprised when you found out that the Doj did not forward the whistleblower complaint to the Fec We don't normally comment on communications that we have back and forth with the Department of Justice so I think I'm going to dimmer on that. One I thought I would try. So my let No, no, of course! So last question: you know what concerns do you have at this point about the twenty twenty election and making sure that we hold sort of free and fair elections in twenty twenty? What keeps you up at night? Well, I'm concerned that we have not adopted stronger protections in light of what happened in two thousand and sixteen. There are
raft of deals that have been introduced and and many of them were passed in the house and are stuck in the Senate. I would particularly like to see Congress adopt some very strong sanctions measures to demonstrate to the world that this is the United States of America. We, We will not stand for anyone messing around in our elections and there will be consequences to be paid. If that happens now, because we really need to focus on deterrence. What happened last time is not going to be the same thing that happened next time is going to be very hard to predict exactly what will happen before it happens. So I think the deterrence angle is really important. I would also like to see things like the honest ads act pass so that we could bring internet communications under the same set of rules that we have for broadcast ads. We know that politics is moving online at a rapid pace, an we're going to see more and more advertising and uh. The
Information sharing going on on line, so we need to bring our rules up to date with the information age and with the internet, its role in our politics outstanding chairman one tribe. Thank you so much for joining us really appreciate you taking the time and thanks for all your doing, it was my pleasure thank thanks to chairwoman Weintraub for joining us today and we'll see you Thursday. We have a special pod that we're recording Thursday night with, as host Rachel? Maddow will be in studio with. Me and love it and Tommy, and that part will be out first thing, Thursday more. We're very excited about it, so we will we'll see you then talk to you by everyone. America's a product of media, the senior Michael Martinez, our system, positive Where is Jordan Waller? It's mixed
Headed by Andrew Chadwick, Kyle Segment is our sound engineer, thanks to Caroline tiny so mater and came along production support into our digital team allies, Khan, normal yell freed in my lil Kim film and upload these episodes as a video every week.
Transcript generated on 2019-11-05.