This episode is brought to you by better for him a new podcast from eighty people. In each episode Francesca Ramsay talks to visionaries in business leaders about mistakes. They ve made how they work their way through them and came out better for it. Listen on sport, fi or wherever you get your podcast. From giving does require and he gave up. So this is absurd. Two of our story: the real enemy. If you have not yet heard episode, one known skimming sense: you please go back, and with but just a quick refresher, where we left off Minos, telling the story of a fight between two factions of Democrats in Alabama on one side of Democrats led by Senator Doug Jones. On the other, a group led by JO read where we left off. These two sides are headed towards a massive showdown. Joe Reed is trying to protect a democratic party in the south. It is run by black people.

Doug Jones believes that, as long as that party is led by Jos Deputy Nancy Worley, they will never be the Republicans Emmanuel. Take it from here. So in August, twenty eighteen that Committee of Party leaders, vs Deasey, holds an election for poverty. Chair and Nasty Worley runs to keep Hussy Joe, need as made it clear that, no matter how much Democrats, another bomber may blame Nancy for the parties failings. She is his choice, his trusted ally, and no me that's all. It would take Joe reads allies who just reelect her, but this time it's different dog Jones, newly elected senator, announces that he has his own candidate that who be putting forward to run against Nancy and whoever wins despite leverage, Joe Red or Doug Jones. That person will effectively control the future of a democratic party in Alabama. Without Jones, com is worried for two reasons: the first

they need to break up just majority to get enough. That's the second! Is that ok, let's say they do get enough votes. The person in charge of a meeting where by election is gonna. Happen is Nancy early and they do not trust Nancy. Worry. I've had Democrats whispered to me about sketchy. Things is eventually dine pause. Elections like announcing results without actually counting all the votes. Ninety disputes this, but in any case, when the day of the actual vote walls around Thou gentle people make sure to recover, meaning it takes In this giant visa and its packed with John Reed Supporters, Doug Joan supporters now all sitting in darkness, looking up at the stage where Joe. And the parties offices are seated at a long table. Vice chair who happens to be a pastor. Let us pray opens with opera

a law, gotta father? We thank you for the monopolies that you have given us. We think that a democratic party and then give the person who is by is actually about your Nancy Worley with a she stepped up podium at this time. I will call the meeting to order and welcome all of you here today to our innovation meeting, which occurs every quadrennial. This is a short white women just got gray hair dressed in a colorful flora, patents, sort of a mix of like folk. The eccentric organizational meetings tend to be controversial and right from the start of a meeting you can tell, but Nancy's just trying is but She can't keep you from getting a green. I would ask you today to be there. Very, very respectful of your fellow Democrats? Then Nancy gives up the monk and it's time for the election for the floor is open for nominations of a cheer. A couple of other black men get up walk over to the MIKE and they make their big pitch the. Why everyone's

Nancy, like Nancy World, she's bonafont second, the motioned. That's it that's their whole populations. She's bonafide Ben, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for the others make their money, Doug Jones, the First Democratic elected to the? U S, Senate from Alabama since ninety. Ninety two, ladies and gentlemen, I am here to nominate for Change Dog Jones. He starts this speech and it immediately clear how for Austria, the use of a party there's no money being Donald Duck communications, there's no money being funneled to social media, there's no money being he tells her crown. Now is our chance to change this week.

An opportunity to seize the moment that you guys individually, not as a party but individually provided member of ninety ninety seven nominated my friend former happily staffer former Folsom staffer, a great lawyer, a great democratic Fox, from Montgomery Alabama way. It's funny because This speech is longer than the Nancy is bonafide one in a way, Doug Jones is ain't exactly the same thing, which is just trust me like you and me. Three mentions Peck Fox his party channel many once so. Dodges is asking for a kind of a lot here. He's asking back Democrats to ditch Jerry and go with his candidate, a white guy. I've been all that familiar with. I spoke. One of those big Democrats, somebody I figured he'd- have at least a shot of convincing. My name is that

Dmitri Young Dodi J D doctor energy and to set up is the ask: why did you really want Dmitri is brand new about Leadership Committee vs DC she'd volunteer for Doug Jones, helped him when his election she'd exactly the type of them, Grab DOW Jones is being on winning over, but the thing was the day before the vote. To me, driven down to Montgomery early, because Joe Reed had invited her to breakfast TAT, Hoddan, but they didn't want me like us, and always late might be able to be there for them. Narrative carcass breakfast TAT morning, so I came down I was at the breakfast in the breakfast. What is that that was see Minority carcass breakfast dead judge, jury gives, for us is a famous or maybe infamous breakfast, it's a joke red tradition. It happened before every party election

but by members of appositely the ship come together. New members are welcomed by China. A coffee is orange juice, really what it is it an orientation. The joint Joe Reed and his allies, and that morning Joe Reed had a heavy piece of news to deliver to a room. We are under attack from the enemy, I know all too well. Hey just said there is there some people there are coming, as I do We are calling on the Dixie crack of old, but that didn't remember cassettes before my time. There's brandy, anytime, damages rigging way who we under attack from like have Republicans just gone on. The cover and cheese, around the avenue members for direction. Here there are looking to mean we can in any way like don't. We

about, and we won't let you all know what's going on. They be very careful we ve got to ban together. This is about an all out attack to destroy the Democratic party. Will you know those words right there? Just two main was like Let me just pull my sleeve casino. I come here for nothing because my constituents, I got an answer to them. You're thinking, oh ok, where I could be ready to fight yeah because he never said who it was after breakfast, Dmitri any others headed to vote and on the way into the theatre she ran into Doug Jones. You, nice there and was happy to see her, so he had any kith in I'm thinking ass. It was great day enough. It great. I also use it Jones and your like. Oh we're, ok, tomorrow, my site, this is some biologists have guy elected in I'm, proud of, so I'm not thinking

Doug is come in there being adversarial, not in a million years, which brings us back to this moment at the election, when Doug Jones, nominates Peck Fox a white attorney for parties, great warrior Great democratic TAT Fox from Montgomery Alabama way Dmitri is watching from her seat as ease these murmurs discontent from the other black people around to the nomination of Ben, not happy Then you start to attend a meeting where men and I start going back over the breakfast. I sat Putnam altogether, the enemy that Joe Reed had wander about. Speak was dug Jones anyway, just as the meter realises this, Jerry gets up to the mark and says all right. Let's do this thing.

Let's hope, there's, no so the way its election works. There are no ballots everyone's just supposed to stand up when they can. This name is called out Demetrius sitting. Then we weighing her options, they didn't really want it needs, and will I really did that we need to bear but I didn't know this paint gap. Am I doing anything. Are we stay where I am having over you were you hand, picked some person all in favour, stand when the vote went down, it was. Clearly a down racial line. Now all their favour NASA Werner, please stay because lack stood up for and see our White sit up for pack and it made me like I was back when I was a: little girl in the sixties, late sixties, here where you know a black

You have to go in their side of the room. All white said the Glen that I just didn't like it would hurt. My heart remember Dimitrios a first time if you didn't know that this is what happens as easy meanings. Overtime yeah watch videos showing Joe resolve eyes, rising as one to keep the people Joe, didn't trust off the committee. This was her first time seeing the power of Joe. Majority led me, announced it pig says receive aid. Boats, Nasa world has been elected reelected as the cheer person Alabama democratic One hundred and one Dmitri voted for Nancy, but she didn't. Feel good about it and when you left there that day, what were you? How are you feeling after I don't want to fight and physically fight, because I felt like

I had been let down by the people bid I hit trusted, beat it doctor, we be they dug out, and I was just angry. I was literally angry and I, have a conversation with doctor read a day and I do have nothing but respect for him. I say that, but I told him I said this will be the last time from here on in I will sit it all out before I was stand up for something I don't know believe it places you got a long way to go and you'll find out. If you read, for his part, denies that this conversation ever happened.

I want to talk to Dog Jones and generate about how is it all gone down? I don't do Doug Jones first told him how Dmitri felt people she was upset her that it felt like that, though, in that room that day, what whether you wanted it to be or not was divided among racial lines, and how did I make you feel? How did make you feel tat made me feel terrible, but I didn't divided along racial lines, Joe Red divided along racial lines. That's the problem, YO and eighty she is dividing this along racial want we're not I didn't make it feel that way Joe Red and eighty see made it feel that way, and they continue to do that by calling people Dixie crap compared folks to George Wallace they're, the ones that have made this a racist dog Jones. I'm surprised me what it was all Jos fault, but when I spoke to Joe, he sent me really surprising. Just kidding you blame Doug Jones. Fails this

A big thing, though, because by this point a genocide was accusing Jared of election tampering. Among other things, they claim the vice chair had counted more votes than they were actual people in the room. So I asked her about it and with a party chair election People are saying that more people voted in the election that their only a hundred forty five people signed up for that is not true, was the true I'm not gonna have banned. Anything that we d come here? They would. It was right and proper heating it'll evoke she got mobile dig. They guy. They had worn hell, you think they would have been argon absolutely not. They are broadly lawlessly, so loses. That's all judges. People are a hundred percent. Convinced of his election has been stolen from them. As far as we are concerned, the old and new party chair, so as a last resort, making this way up

one organisation that has power over Nancy and Joe, the Democratic National Committee, the DMZ part of the break Joe Red squares off against a new this episode is brought to you by better a new podcast from HTTP hosted by Francesca Ramsay. We all make mistakes better, for it looks at how

stakes have shaped the lives and careers of visionaries and business leaders and helps them think differently about what their working for you'll hear from an entrepreneur who ventured out on his, and so I went out. I took seven hundred dollars. I had in the bank, but my own pickup truck, took some flyers business cards and Later I had a business and in aid our role breaker, whose learned why we all care about work in the first place, but you are proud of the work do you want to be able to tell your friends about it, you want to be able to feel like you're, making a different you'll hear how they work their way through their mistakes and came out better for him the non Spotify or wherever you get your pockets.

Welcome back to veto. So the Democratic National Committee investigates the election between Peck Fox and Nancy Worley and determines it is not up to their standards. They tell Nancy, you have to hold a new election for Polynesia, and this is the moment that months later, I keep thinking about Joe reads. First big mistake No, if he'd realized yet what he done, but his brinkmanship had invited the Dnc into his own back yard, which meant Joe had put himself in a very dangerous position, because when we d and seized I'd poking around, of course, like one of the things they noticed was this with special rule that gave to read a ton of power, about shore, it guaranteed black representation on the leadership committee, but what about the tea knows, or other minorities between sea tells Nancy, but she needs to fix the bylaws, but walls of the party and, as part of this fix the DMZ once Nancy to change the Joe Red

hello. Hello. Can you hear me I can hear you say it great? How are you good? I talked to redeem the official who was given the unenviable job of getting Nancy in Georgia. Agree to these changes. His name's howled Ickes he's an old hand, been imposing a long time, Bush Gingrich how a scrap of the best of them, but had experience with Nancy and Joe. I will something else. I guess in life. There's nothing unique, but this comes pretty close to unique it's that different. Yes, the best way to describe it- and I make between howled and nancy- is idealistic substitute teacher meets very difficult student I would ask you to turn in some new bottles, but on the David, would you he's? Email was empty. I drafted. A set of new bylaws sent them down. The warley. She did not respond and wait wait, so she was supposed to write these by laws and she just yet.

She didn't an you when you were like a way I'll just do your homework for you and you, basically Senate to her to sign off honour, will erode a complete set of buyers. Sent them to her. We sent them to her complete, complete radios out, we were deliver. Stun buyer howls was totally mystified by NASA behaviour. But actually to anybody who lived in Alabama, this kind of response is not surprising, is practically a local tradition. Tub of eyes now had even told me about it. I don't know if you know this about Alabama sure, but the says you culture here says you says you like as soon somebody else says that Alabama needs to do something. O Alabama is not doing that,

Damn again, role that beast, who was played in Alabama was impressed upon me by the people I interviewed by the drives a politically history books. As it says, you was a founding principle of the state. Abortion is legal. Now says you, schools have to be integrated, says he our state democratic Party has to follow a new set of rules says you with easy, however, is not shown by Nancy, says, use people were in power to all and they get used to them and they don't want to give up power. They think they have a right to it. And I think that anybody else who voices any other opinion is, you know, comes close to being a terrorist Joe Red has been the power and the Democratic Party for a long time, and did he do has he done a lot and accomplish enormous normous amount in his lifetime. The answer is: resounding yes, Joe Reed was on the forefront of the civil rights movement in the fifties. Music

is he was there when you know, you too literally took your life in your hands. If you went up against the White Power structure, He deserves an enormous enormous amount of credit times change. Younger people want to come into the party there Hispanics now that should be represented, the poor algae beaten. You oughta be represented and they were shut out. There were shut out of the six months howled into Dnc, trying escalating series of punishments to make Nancy fallen line, they strip of how credentials kick up out of a national party, but doesn't change anything because this nasty comes to cooperating Sandoval one draft proposed new bibles, a draft that doesn't touch for Joe readable at all, so its clear. As the injury and are not budging. Finally, the Danes, they give Nancy NGO one last chance they have one month to fix the bottles and hold a new vote for pontica

The problem is, we ve been more than a year since the pact vocs election a year, long power vacuum. As may people, restless edgy bell losing faith at the grown ups. Actually gonna fix this, so some Democrats, like time of eyes, now decide it's time to take matters into their own. Ok, we ve got to figure out a way to solve this, and the only other way to solve the problem is for the SD easy membership themselves to call for a meeting, namely was Nancy's job to call meetings. But if time, if I can get a majority of the S d c on board bacon, Coover mean and use it to change the bylaws and kick Nancy out seem simple enough, but in the real world. But that looks like is figuring out a date, Figuring out a location reserve being a ballroom on your own. Language is actually just like out.

You got a meeting actually plan a meeting when you're two hundred and fifty people spread across the state who don't necessarily like each other trust each other. You ve not gonna, find a fifty percent plus one who were gonna work together enough. In general to agree that we should have a meeting and then not Just in general agree, but like all of your signatures on a single document, we also need to find like where you gonna, send em, and is everybody could agree that that's the appropriate p o box who's going to monitor it, who's gonna, certify that it was fair see. Your legs are like this. Just now, listening to me talk about this. So, as I started thinking about this as like, this is never gonna happen without help, someone has to be the catalyst tub over the sides. She'll be

person, she'd wanna campaign on her own. She knew how to organise she's, already put itself forward as a possible candidate to replace Nancy, but now Tabitha starts reaching out Democrats across a state to get them on board. We vote is essentially a coup. I should say time of objects of his word and while I see it as a coup in ahead events, it is possibly the most polite by the books, Sunday School takeover in political history. It starts with a video conference call after me I was sceptical, I thought, but maybe I don't know, ten people would join this being a low, but by the time I logged in it were already a dozen people down. Have you ever been a couple minutes? Maybe forty I will gladly Amanda, maybe fifty he retired snake ass, its willow movie, Elam, actually, Africa right now, so many

this is real crowded on the screen, but I could barely make them out, but this I could tell real name where you're in Brown, but almost everybody on these goals, Krishna claim from our current real from our work here and within a couple of minutes taboo and uses herself said you don't know me already well, and I get a little back on how to get to this point. Ten of certainly our plan haiku will be shared, cooperative and transparent enough with powerful man telling everyone just trust them. We need to make sure that cried motors across our stake are hiding their voices heard, but as she starts, describing a bold new vision, somebody interrupts as if to say, hey not so fast.

But you haven't, I dont mean in Iraq, but I really this is done Jones and hey. I appreciate the opportunity come. Can I give some folks an update, on where things stand as of today, because I think it's really important Doug Jones explains that about he in a small select group. They have been already working on this problem themselves are actually really close to solving it. Many heads of for so go home, I'm out. Ok, Are we going to drop you, but I mean him to tell us This moment was a little humiliating, but Doug Jones just felt like he was doing his job. You know, look you can't, please everybody all the time what I was trying to do- is to tell people a lot of work has been done on this for a law in time. We ve been trying to get these bylaws change for a year now, all of a sudden-

Miss Eisenhower's comin in late to the party wanting to open source, something that was just going to set us and we didn't have the time, Just came in and said it would be easier. If we do, it will reserve a space will write the documents we'll take care of it. He is right, it is easier, but I think the party would have grown more. Because the folks who prefer backroom deals are the folks who are most threatens by transparency. Attempts to have grassroots power are terrifying to be. Well, who have authoritarian power, but all of this, like it still current democratic right, China, since the time it's not it's, not that it's bad

we're all so damage from having leaders that we dont trust and There is so much distress of every one new key get anything done when you don't know who to trust the weight of his ease it for people in a video conference want to trust one another. They want to build a party together and to do that, we don't need the Joneses approval so when he leaves the cool tabitha, just picks up right, which he left off the big project and A couple of weeks have of his band of grass roots Democrats plows forward the marketing meaning up in a video calls. We did last meeting without anymore. Options and that Jones they form different teams wanting we're getting enough people to call for meaning is getting

her letter, my alas, another team to training bite new people to the party over a hundred and twenty individuals expressed an interest and the various diversity caucuses night. Night at log on to watch their progress, we're already a little over a quarter of the way toward the andreasen go. I just thought if you like, I was watching something you don't get to see very often these going public Democrats getting along form coalitions and making something happened. Finally, towards the end timber team. Three reports. Ok, we ve looked a ballroom at America outside of Montgomery Folk, Toby, twelve, but we're saying yes, crap allegation agri. This is where we are going to be able to hold that meaning and yet,

one step closer to getting rid of Nancy worthy and starting a new party? But no sooner do they do this, then dont Jones pumps it had back up with its own announcement. He says: he's coolly, an official meeting for the exact same purpose, but it's gonna be a week earlier on October. Fifth, so time of his people are wondering what their meaning, baby, official, meaning or we'll Doug, Joneses, meaning and while they're trying to figure out. Everybody gets an email from somebody else. They basically forgotten about ever hang on, hang on, hang I pay Nancy. Just call me book or by he. Now I may or zero minutes ago we called for a meeting on the twelfth Senate Jones called for meeting on the fifth and Nancy Worley called for meeting on the twelfth Jaska all three hadn't locations booked, you guys copying spur.

For thirteen months we couldn't get a single meeting, and now, in twenty four hours we have three meetings have if it doesn't want to ban bridges. So she's, got time, meaning and tells people ok go to Doug agendas instead. But that means that, still to competing meanings, one that Dog Jones chosen his people never and another, about Joe Red and Nancy worthy of put together so which means is the real meeting remember. This is happening in October of this year. Twenty nineteen somewhere out there, the Republicans presumably like I dunno during each other, elaborate new gerrymandering maps or dreaming up new push Paul's for next year's elections. Meanwhile, for Democrats who wore the meetings rages on and the media like Bore Dimitrios, she just wants to know which meaning go to, but, of course we have a meeting. She goes to that declares with sciences on. In fact, she received a letter from your red making that very clear said Anne and that coming meaning a tub of twelve

please be reminded that our chair Nancy Worley, Heather's Ets, as set a special meeting of Assisi Posterity Uptown, twelve at eleven, a m to consider some new bylaws This is a very important meeting. It is imperative for you to be present clear. That day because his meaning made me on second paragraph. I am told that some on its calling you in the name of the Jones. This is not possible. Nancy world has already reserved but slowly and nobody can call a meeting if the chair has already called one keep in mind that in the past the only people who have sent you lead regarding s. The easy meetings have been. And see Worley and mean. Therefore, if you receive mail,

Anyone other than Nancy Worley are me. It is fake. Gazetted goes on like this. For a while says, you're dead Jones is abusing its authority. In betraying actress, we worked like hell to get him elected. U S senator. He is using every opportunity to weaken and undermine the black boat on the issue You see all crimes, the worst crime is ingratitude. Ok, so when you, when you saw this, what did you think what the hell's going on? I mean I'm confused Does that mean? Will I have two meetings in which meeting is going to be legitimate? He sang in here I hear Lou so I'm trying to put all this together and what I said to myself was Demetrius D love my Saturday and Sunday to sleep and regenerate. My

cs? I don't look like my age, I'm going getting up and I'm goin both so the end of September. I decide I am also going to go to both meaning I'm gonna go to Alabama and watch this fight up close a fight between the mostly white Democrats, mosey black Democrats. I wanted to see why The Alabama Democratic Party would end up looking like and if in the end, but even be a party, if half of the ESA Easy shows up on the fifth and beside it yeah two days from now and passes a set of violence and then one week later, a different subset of theirs do you see shows up and they vote in to effect a different set of bylaws which by laws are there real Alabama, Democratic Party by loss

That is the moment when we have two parties too Alabama democratic parties governed by two different sets of bylaws. You think that republican domination is severe right now in Alabama. If we split into the White Democrats in the black Democrats, we are done for them. I think you have is that like hasn't haven't, but it's basically already happened. So that's what you have helped nice. What what? What could possibly a hope of his point? Well, I'm telling people, this is a test of whether we can stay together. This is a. Emily argument or an argument between spouses, where you have to be more made it to the relationship? Then you are to the fight. The fight is worth having don't get me wrong, but how you feel.

Matters a need to fight in a way that makes it clear that I still want to be an relationship with you, no matter how this fight ants, sound or via the conclusion of our story, only one set of Democrats will be standing in the end right I was hosted by me. Pga vote now, swollen respects relieve him in it.

If we abandon Damietta Caddy Anna, fully Jessica, young male Georgie, our executive producers, TIM Howard, were mixed by requiring Catherine Anderson. Backtracking by Michel has are in turn, is right, our theme music, is by Mr Spring- has her cylinder music. This episode from professor cylinder and Luke Williams, such a nice little inclement, Josh, Raby and well boiled Mally varies heated seats, you can find show on Spotify. If were you get your party ass, they throw listening, the next research of this story is in your feed right now,.