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ages in one of America's closely watched elections, Stacy Abrams speaking to a crowd gathered outside some restaurants in bars along Edgewood, Avenant she's, a Democrat running for governor of the clause, if she went, should be the first african american woman to be a governor of any state. Abrams is called herself in unapologetic, progressive and she's all about making voting easier more about them. There are there the hard and good spirit. We want good role of Georgia together, let's get a guy like you so much. I appreciate your heavenly. This mornin republican brain camp is Abrams opponent, he's Georgia's Secretary of State strong supporter of President Trump, and he called himself political. Incorrect conserve. There are people on the left. They call literally have

All me, the Secretary of Suppression, really they don't. Why did they would keep our voter roles clean? So many domains comments and so we keep our vote arose, updated, remove or the Democrats. I don't want to remove dead people, but on camps Watch Georgia has more than a million voters from the roles and not just dead people. Now he's in a close race for governor this is happening in the state with a ugly history of keeping African Americans from the poles. But it's happening it. Parts of the country to today we investigate, vote suppression in America with our partners at eight p M reports. That's the investigative unit of american public media. So teaming up with public radio station W Abd in Atlanta Johnny Kaufman is W abies political reporter and he gets started in southern Georgia.

Its weeks before the mid term elections and many a small town called Moultrie riding in the back seat of afford focus. That's moving slowly down the street. It's getting dark and three women from a local chapter of the Democratic Party are peering at the house. Numbers was an excellent, therefore get past. When look of eighteen. Thirty, three of us on this one of the women steps out and walks up to a house the women, are looking for likely Democrats using a list. They got from the state party. As this, it goes down and he gets darker, no one's answering the door. It's getting close to eight o clock, Sarah Clayton decides to try. One last house found that the data The tv inside is turned in jeopardy and someone's head

is visible through the window. Nobody comes to the door muskets. Turns around and walked back toward the road letter revolt. Development. This is We all want them to combine and cast a vote, whether personal, a choice, her friends waiting for her in the car, but she paused for a second. If a person think that my vote not no count. A no vote is just like a yes vote, That's telling them that you don't care one way or the other, but as a result, Suppose, citizen and a person industry You need to vote. You really do you need the teacher children, the importers of voting, you go out and you beat the bushes and you complain, but you don't go

more than one hundred million Americans of voting age didn't go to the polls in twenty sixteen, so Democrats and Republicans, trying to get the numbers to work for their side. The Democrats are hopeful here in Georgia, A Democrat hasn't one. The governors mansion since nineteen ninety eight, but in time, latino Asian American, an african american populations have been growing and these are likely democratic voters. As the state changes Republicans are determined to keep control. And Democrats claim their doing it by suppressing the votes of people of color. You know the best way to stop people from even trying to let them know they're, not welcomed and make it hard make it hard. Helen came home is power Georgia's shifting demographics, she was born in Korea and moved here with her parents in eighth grade. She found it a voter registration

Group called the Asian American Legal Advocacy centre in twenty. Ten can show your video Yasser. Have I I just found out was like cried. This is a video called vote, style hellenes group made it and it shows people signing up to vote outside asian grocery stores in Atlanta suburbs. At one point, a group of dancing teenagers is joy, by congressmen and civil rights icon, John Louis Hellenes, is her group signed up more than fifteen hundred people, but there is a problem. Hundreds M weren't, showing up on the voter registration list she contact. Secretary state, Brian Camps Office, but Helen didn't get any answers, so she went public and got a swift rebuke from camp. Can you back to exactly when you receive a letter from the Secretary of State Office, sure I read it and I got scared you now and then pissed counselor.

Claimed some of the applications were late or didn't come in at all and he turned the tables he suggested Helen may have broken the law by photocopying the applications and keeping copies in Georgia that can lead to felony charges. So Helen turned to a prominent Atlanta attorney, Emmett Joplin bond The second, the vast number of ordinary people, are easily intimidated by exactly that sort of lead, Mr Bonde, during is eighty one he's a successful corporate lawyer and also something of a voting rights legit way back in nineteen sixty three he one is first case before the Supreme Court, increasing the power of black voters in Atlanta after Helen asked for his wandering wrote a letter to the Secretary of State, letting him know he'd be representing Helen, and her organization, and if you ve got a question

about their activities. You direct from the me and we will respond to them. You want to shoot at they'll, take her out. You came to the right place and you better think about then camps office back. And didn't file any charges, but he's investigated other voting rights groups, including one founded by his political opponents, Stacy Abrams Camps, says he's just making it harder to cheat. Wandering calls these investigations part of a broader playbook used by Republicans to suppress the vote. So happened to Helen came home when I asked her, she told me that two years later, she went back to check on the people who grew tried to register half still weren't on the rules only try to phone bank several of them and many of them were no longer interested in working with us are going back to evoke. They said they had been turned off so badly. The problem. Helen Kim HO faced hasn't gone away earlier. This

and voting rights groups filed a lawsuit it claims, Brien Camps Office has I waited the Voting Rights ACT in the constitution. Who is a lot it freezes, applications of a name or other info doesn't exactly match other government records, even if it is missing a haven t. People can still vote but act this worry, they might be discouraged by the confusion. Any pondering says: there's another vote or suppression strategy. That still has him stumped it first on him in twenty twelve, you read in an art. Call that the number of registered voters in Georgia had gone down. This raised serious questions. Cuz we knew Georgia's population was growing. You knew there had not been the black death to kill off a third of the states, adult population, and so we have had to be

some else going on. So here's what's happening to bonds missing. Voters states routinely perch hundreds of thousands of people from their voter registration roles. These are people who die it moved away or gone to prison, but Georgia, and at least eight other states, have what you could call use it or lose. It lies not voting, Did you removed from the robes it works like this. If you sit out couple of elections. You can get put on an inactive list. The state you, a mailer. If you don't respond and skip to more federal elections, your purged- and if you don't Oh you removed. You may show up your point place only to find out, you can vote undercut There has been a massive jump in purchase. What's goin on here, brine camps. Job is to protect our vote, doesn't add from power pack, Georgia. Its donors promised TAT million dollars to do Stacy Abrams campaign. We just can't trust that brine camp,

can spend on a bus tour around the state. Talking about his record, I went to a stop south of Atlanta. Outside spray varies barbecue. Restaurant is irregular campaigns, doubtful but your Republicans came steps off the bus and gives his stump speech. It's all about putting Georgia first and protecting its values. Then he gets back on the bus. I get onto I ask him about the allegations he's been aggressively purging voters. He looks a little irritated. Well, I disagree with that statement. What we're doing this? within the law and required by the law. So your office. Hasn't been more aggressive than others in the past in terms of removing voters from the rolls. No, I believe we have, and we were just going through the process, would you know, have insecurity, since you gotta have secure voter roles. Camps says

made it easier to vote by setting up on mine registration, but during his I am in office. There's been a big jump in the number of people who ve been removed from the roles. More than one point: six million have had their registration cancelled, veteran smuggling I decided to try and find people who been purged without knowing it in Moultrie the small Agricole we'll town in Southern Georgia there's some campsites over there. I'm with Angela Caboodle cheating investigate reporter from a pm reports. We ve got a sort of guide, database with the names and addresses of all five hundred thousand or so people perched in Georgia last year, and our analysis shows that in the county where Moultrie is and in more than two dozen others, the approaches are disproportionately affecting people of color turn right. That reigns

Moultrie is the county seat. We pass way column homes with any cured lawns and lush magnolias in front on the others. If town we drive over potholes streets along rows of one story: ramshackle Houses- when we get the homes of people who are listed dispersed summer boarded up and the residents have moved away at some of the other addressed We are told the people were looking for have gone after college, where the military This woman tells us she doesn't vote for religious reasons. I say thank you. We're still looking for someone who wants devoting November but doesn't know they ve been purged, so we go to Cornelius ponder member of Audrey City Council he's also businessmen and pastor at the real church that stands for restoration, edification and love.

As his family's lived in the area for generations. Greg and there it was small sharecroppers Reverend ponds. One his election last year by the slimmest of margins, just nine votes he says. Well, he was campaigning. He encountered. People who'd been purge for failing to vote in previous elections back emigrants. Quite a few people, then their election already in some of went down to vote in their good, and then I have to people said that they got down there and they didn't have proper documentation. In addition, there is confusion like that during a relation ass. He says with tromp enough this enthusiasm is low and Moultrie in the last election voter turnout was below ten percent. Voters are also free traded with all the obstacles, purges, confusion, reporting locations and long lines, the bribery Parliament is no longer worth voting now and I think that's what we're we're. We're trouble with

Angela asks about an aim. She spotted on the purged list. The yeah she's she's Marty stay record, say Kathleen ponder register to vote in two thousand eight then earlier this year, official struck her name from the roles and ponder tells us he doesn't know about any of this, but does his aunt know that she's been taken off the voting list Angela and I find Miss ponder living in a small house just outside Moultrie painless. I'm Angela complete I'm a reporter with public radio job, we're working out a story about people who then removed from the voting list. I don't I've heard about this, but usually explained Georgia cancels voters who don't turn out in multiple actions and then in some places, blacks are being pulled off the rules at a disproportionate rate, so he register devout in two thousand and eight.

Do you remember that Obama is running? The member hey in amendment. No two bore me here to do so. Then last July you were taken off the voter list, so it have been on July, twenty eighth of twenty seventeen, but you didn't get any notification that you'd lose no did you know that there is this policy that they take you off. If you don't go Miss ponder tells us. She had no idea she'd been purge, although she did in completely surprised. She says hasn't been irregular voter by she's thinking about Turning out in November to support Stacy Abrams for governor debate back at Reverend, Under his office angel it gives him the news about his art. She still lives within the county, but she's been

move from the voting list and she had no idea who this interesting She was never notify, are anything she does recall ever getting anything from election officials to get down to the bottom of it, because if it happened, I heard a promises is not only why he says it just confirms his view that voters, suppression is happening. It almost give people might say that this is a privilege not right and so now anything that is a privilege has a get permission. Yes, I'll give you don't do our way. We will give you the permission to use his privilege. Does he'll take his onto re register, so she can vote in the governors race. We analyzed all the people purged in Georgia just last year.

We found that about a hundred thousand were removed for not voting and not responding to notices. No. We don't know how it breaks down by race, but if you adding other obstacles like a voter, Idee law and closed polling places. All this could Tipp a close race for governor when it comes to purges, Stacy, Abrams and other Democrats say there's a solution. Let people register All the way to election day at least seven he states have same day registration, but not in Georgia. Brian camp opposes it and same with other Republicans states where you have same day registrations. It leaves to Iraq, voting brine sin is a republican strategies. I'm came in the marble halls of Georgia's State House branches voting as a right and a privilege. So he disagrees with reverent ponder who says voting is a right period. Brian things registering ahead of an election is important because it shows someone

educated and engaged enough to deserve to vote. You want people following the election to some degree who what the issues on the candidates stand for. I don't believe in the same day. Registration, because I do thank you, said administrative headache, because I do think it distorts the electorate. I bet I do. How does it distort the electorate. I dont know how would you describe it frankly about a loss of that but if you dont know on October the first that there's a presidential election, or a gubernatorial election in the Two weeks of November you're not foreign voter Brien, argues purging people for not voting- is in taking anything from them because they're, not voters. If the presidential election and it back to presidential elections, don't get you out, I don't know what it's gonna take.

To get you out, and I don't care what color you are. What your partisanship is, I think that's a payer standard, Brian at the governors race like this? It's all about who shows up at the polls camp wins. Racial breakdown of voters stays about where it's been in recent elections, Abrams Winds, I'm getting more people of color to the poles both probably to win over some voters who haven't made up their minds, but finding those types of voters could be really tough. You have to polarized angry tribes, going at a job you look calling today is almost no one decided that story from JANET government of public radio station that EU aid in Andalusia, Poodle maybe I'm reports,

when it comes to voting. Something else distinguishes Georgia for most of the states. Its voting machines are easy targets for computer hackers was what you were doing here. Even technically hacking I would not counted as hacking now. What was it then it was. It was browsing webs that's coming up next on review from Jennifer Investigative reporting, p r ex this is reveal a mallet. Up till now we ve been talking about all the barriers that prevent people from stepping into a voting booth on election day like

getting to the polling station in finding out. Your name is on the list, but even if you get into the booth, give vote might not be properly counted. Georgia is one of five Greece, they rely solely on touch screen, voting machines with no paper audit trail. Cyber experts have warned about these machines for years and recently so as well. Didn't one of the things we are learning is it's always good, it's all fashion, but it always good to have a paper backup system of voting called paper not complex computers, paper, there's a real cause for concern, special council robber mother hasn't dated twelve russian agents for school to target county websites in Georgia. A lot of security experts are worried that when it comes to hacker, Georgia is one of the most vulnerable it's in the country, but are the people in charge of elections there actually listen reveals by Duncan picks up the story.

Yes, right now, I'm working the machine Logan Lamb, has a voting machine in his living room. This is what one looks like an inside, so here's where they regard is a cyber security researcher in Atlanta, his specialty, is finding new ways to break into wireless networks and new ways to keep the bad guys out the touch in voting machine. He has is the kind Georgia uses at its polling places. The machine is bulky and book shaped with a big screen. It looks kind of like cross between a nintendo and a Bible. Logan boots, it up, says, IQ, touch, bootloader and then its de compressing. The image is one funny thing I've been wanting to do. Pull off that little time at the beginning and use that is my ring tones. This is a direct recording electronic machine or D. Already it doesnt produce any sort of voter verified paper,

the trail for Logan and other cybersecurity types. That's a major red flag. In fact, dairies have been criticised by technologists. Basically, since they were installed across the country in the early two, thousands one alternative to these machines is paper. Balance and in recent years more and more people are pushing to start using them again. Like last march, at a Senate Intelligence Committee, hearing on election security run, widen a Democrat from Oregon. Had some questions for Homeland Security Secretary Kirsten Nielsen. You wanted to get her official position on electronic voting machines and I'd like to get your views for the record of whether you leave the continued use of paperless voting machines in this country threatens our national security and the department is now prepared to recommend paper balance

So yes, sir, if there is no way to audit the election. That is absolutely a national security concerns. Why didn't satisfying? and you ve now told us that the status quo is a national security threat, Logan actually started getting concerned about Georgia's elections back in August of twenty sixteen he'd been reading about russian hacking of the Democratic National Committee and elsewhere, and he wanted to help so he started snooping around the website is something called the centre for election systems at Canso State University. The centre had handled elections in June, yet for more than a decade and I very quickly discovered multiple voter registration databases, as some of which contained over six million records of Georgia voters and within those database. Some of the information that I saw there was

full name address driver's license number birthday? Was four digit severe social security number? It wasn't just that either he found training He owes passwords plus a serious vulnerability in the architecture of the site itself. This would have allowed. Accurate to modify and delete files on the server without detection was what we're doing here, even technically hacking now I would not counted as hacking know. What was it then it was. It was browsing a website so at this point he sits down and composes an email to the people. I can also state he says: look I'm a local cyber security researcher. I dont want to make a big deal out of this. We should

We know that I turned up all the scary stuff. He doesn't hear back right away, so he gets the cell phone number for moral king, the guy in charge at key ass. You get him on the phone, but the more they talk. Logan says the weirder things get. He said He says: look, I'm a local cyber security researcher. I dont want to make a big deal out of this. We should probably know that I turned up all this scary stuff. He doesn't hear back right away and I also took that is more of a warning than a threat. No, but in hindsight I'm not really sure Logan didn't get crushed by petitions or any one else, though the F B, I did pay him a visit a few months later now he's sitting, at the centre of a messy situation, one that says a lot about the state of election security in Georgia and across the country about a month after Logan first finds the problem Georgia's Secretary of state brain can,

is in Washington DC. I want to thank the committee chairman heard for inviting me to discuss election security. He testified before a house subcommittee on information technology and map and over the past few weeks, he's been boasting about the security of Georgia's system or he's also been calling out the federal government for overstepping its election responsibilities and trying to quote subvert the constitution under the guise of security by the way Kemp doesn't know about Logan's findings. Yet and at this hearing he's going off again sure he says the hack on the Dnc was troubling, but the diesel the response to these attacks has been to take steps towards federalism, aspects of elections, elections systems and standardizing security measures. There is a better as of security by the way camp doesn't know about Logan's findings. Yet, and at this hearing he's got off again sure he says the hack on the Dnc was troubling, but the decision,

to call he basically says so you're telling us that there is no never an election situation that calls for any kind of federal intervention ever was not really an campus there is a better way to hearing goes on for hours. Eventually, camp starts getting pushed back from Jerry Connally, a democratic senator from Virginia Mister Camp. I want to make sure I understood your testimony commonly skeptical. He basically says so you're telling us that there is no never an election situation that calls for any kind of federal intervention. Ever was not really in camp like no, not really getting Connally. Doesn't by it. What about the voting rights

fact. States were actively suppressing boats. You don't deny that do well, I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with the election system. Well, I'm dealing with your assertion of the principle that we shouldn't federalized any aspect of this, and I am arguing that the Voting Rights ACT as a clear exception to your principle and that perhaps the federal government, You don't deny that do well, I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with the election system. Well, I'm doing with your assertion of the principle that we shouldn't federalized any aspect of this, and I am arguing that the Voting Rights ACT as a clear exception at the end of the hearing. Campers given one last chance to speak and he stands firm states have this cyber security stuff handled. He says and in fact may be federal officials should pay us a visit. Maybe they would learn a few things. I think they'll be very pleasantly surprised.

The team can also state was certainly surprised. In fact, slogans I sent them scrambling you don't wanna be interviewed for the story, but all their emails for public record, which means you can get them if you ask nicely but start on August. Twenty twenty steam Logan emails k you he tells the money. And any says quote: there's a straw. Probability. Your site is already compromise. Members of chaos the centre for election system start circulating the email around and next few days they start to realize yeah. This is ban the school information, security team recommends doing some scans, but then the director of the elections team ways he says: wait a minute wait a minute. This is our busiest time of year. The last thing we want is for the site to become unavailable to all these counties. We need us reading this at first. It's easy to think. Ok, that makes sense

But this idea that you can't make election secure because you're so busy preparing for the elections, the sea, problematic by September fifteenth these guys and still haven't been done somewhat from you, since teams as their struggling with the technology quote, we discovered were a little out of our debt. The elections. Team gets the breach fixed, or so they think it's October, twenty seventh, two months after Logan, first email them. They think the security team and say quote: this has been a huge help too reading this email- you can basically here this deep sigh of relief like this is over, except it's not You may be wondering what brain camp has to say about all this. Well,

despite Logan Land, downloading reams of sensitive information, which camp called deeply concerning camp also said that Georgia is protected with lairs upon layers of security and specifically he's made to our its number one. The voting machines are never connected to the internet, which makes them safer from hacking and number two breaking into just one wouldn't really do much. You need a wide scale. Conspiracy to actually met with an election. So, there's a good reason to push back on both of those arguments, both those arguments wrong, which De Mello is a professor computer science at George Attack. He used to be the chief technology officer at Hewlett, Packard, We don't need to mount an attack on thousands and thousands of polling places, you just need to have a really good idea of where the target you're attacks in order to flip the right number of boats in order to get above the threshold plus, he says,

Georgia's system is so centralized. There are multiple points of entry for an attacker. That's part of what Logan's discovery proved. Not only did Georgia leave itself exposed the p running things didn't even seem to understand how bad the problem was or what was at stake. They are making it up. They're scared to death there, making it up, on a day to day basis, they have no idea. What's going on in these systems, I have no idea why they work or don't work There kind of living in constant fear that this whole thing is gonna come crashing down around their ears. They also failed to realise something else. Something really important. Five months after Logan, made his initial discovery. He was hanging out with a friend another cyber security guy I was like Chris. Do I ever tell you about that? Wacky stuff. I found the key issue and he said no only more. They sit down at a computer and download everything again it's at this time. There's more because it looks like new info.

Has been added since January, so we were able to get the exact same amount of stuff the second time effectively yeah, so nothing had changed. Well, they had attempted to fix it, but in such a way that I I actually done understand what they were trying to do. Ok, That is those about my reaction. I don't really understand kept, didn't wanna talk for this story, but I was able to chat with Cappy Cox, Georgia's Secretary of State, from ninety ninety nine to two thousand seven, a Democrat she oversaw the Statewide roll out of touch screen machines in the early two, thousands, and unlike every cyber security experts, I've ever talk to she's critical of paper ballots from dead people. Voting to ballot boxes showing up in the bottom of a lake. They're just so many opportunities limited truly,

only by one's imagination to commit fraud. Honor. Paper ballot. She also said but even the Logan's findings for troubling their different from a problem with the voting machines themselves, a bridge Each into a voter registration system is not a breach in to the voting system in Georgia, because those are two distinctly different systems distinctly different, secured systems. It's worth noting that cyber experts disagree with this strongly Matt Bernhard is applied. Student at the University of Michigan. He studies the areas and their vulnerabilities. That says the problem of Georgia system is that, unlike a lot of other states, it's all interconnected. Like a giant tree, he told me, the Secretary of State Office is the roots. Your counties are like the upper branches and your precincts are like little leaves so really inject information earn jerk between our a virus into any part of this tree. The way to set up

he's right that virus could get transmitted to every other part of the tree, not long after Logan downloaded all that data. A second time some election integrity groups filed a complaint against Brian Camp for violating Georgians constitutional rights to have their ballots counted correctly. They asked Georgia to switch to paper ballots before the November MID terms. There is a hearing in September in federal court in Atlanta it was grew

we took all day you had cyber experts on one side explaining why Georgia system is so vulnerable. One of them even hacked voting machine right there in the courtroom on the other side were Kinspeople telling the cyber experts hey. You don't understand how Georgia system works. A few days after this hearing a federal judge deciding again adopting paper ballots over electronic wines. For the mid term elections, Judge Amy to Hamburg filed an order in favour of brain camp for ass. She wrote that switching to paper ballots just weeks before an election would create total chaos, but she also spent dozens and dozens of pages validating the testimony of cyber experts and scolding the state. I am going to read just a little bit from the order quote. The court is gravely concerned about the states pace in responding to the city.

Former abilities of its voting system. By the way throughout the hearing camps team tried to paint the cyber experts as out of state elites. Judge Schoenberg was having none fat hacking. She wrote is here to stay and quote defendants will fail to address that reality if they d mean, as paranoia the research based findings of national cyber security, engineers and experts. So that's where we are Georgia is barreling towards mid terms with vulnerable system. The machines that very few people trust Canada, It is no longer handling elections. Now the Secretary of State Office does the people. I talk to say that change will really make much of a difference. They say if a hacker got the info, Logan got back and twenty sixteen they could still use it to do enfranchise voters in twenty eighteen- and it's worth noting here just how much Judge Gothenburg ruling resembles the logic at Kennison State great after Logan, first email them, we know early. Are vulnerable, but we can't fix them.

The elections are so soon. Before Logan I parted ways? I asked my question: let me ask you this How sure you that somebody didn't beat you to this others there is not really a way of knowing. At this point, I instead to this day. I am very concerned reveals by dutch voters that story earlier this year, Brien Camp established a commission that look at options for replacing the current voting system by twenty twenty, oh and the other four states heading into the mid terms that use such green machines with no paper audit trail, Bunny, Jersey, Delaware, South Carolina, Louisiana,

fear of voter fraud is driving a lot of efforts to restrict access to voting around the country, but where is that fear? Coming fuck? That's next onwards, he'll from the centre for investigative reporting, p r, exe. From the centre for investigative reporting and p r ex this is reveal a melody today, I ve been talking about voter suppression and fear vote of fraud. People are worried about it in part because of what President Trump has been seen in many places. Like California, the same person votes. Many times you problem you heard about that. They would like to say that a conspiracy- third, not a conspiracy theory fucked me

Tens of millions of people, those claims have been totally the boat, but one of the people who got those theories going was a Kansas lawyer whose waged a long running campaign against what he calls for fraud. His name is Chris Callback he's a Kansas secretary of State, and while that's typically a pretty sleepy office, he's a household name in his home state even used. Have a weekly radio show PS the easy O use worst nightmare, causing knows that constitution and fight they keep them from again. Confetti of it is Chris, come on GO box been a loyal trump support from the beginning, Trump appointed him to run his so called election integrity. Commission. It was disbanded less than a year after was started without accomplishing anything. Peggy low of Casey you are in Kansas City has been covering co back for years. I beg hair, so co bag is from a small state population wise, but

He has his big national profile conservative circles. How did that happen? So callback is a long time. Anti immigration crusader. He D didn't Arizona law that basically gave law enforcement a lot more authority to stop people in question them about their immigration status. It was called the papers, please law, that's dating back to about twenty ten. And since then he's been aligned with white nationalist groups who backed that effort and that's when he got on the writer of the southern poverty lost centre. Who now calls cobalt the lawyer America's native his movement. Since then, his anti immigration crusade has morphed into this campaign against what he calls massive voter fraud. Cobalt claims that illegal aliens that's a term. He loves to you. Our voting in great numbers and this fraud could be swinging elections but the way we know that that is not true. Let's ride out, I could

a bunch of the little zeros and percentages at you here, but accordingly, Brennan Centre for justice. It would be therefore, an american tv struck by lightning then to impersonate and other voter, but that doesn't stop co back he's the leader in the fight against this. Well, it's a major problem. You interview Coburg last summer. What would you like a person? Well, You know. Come back, makes a really good politician. He's good luck, Ganges, charming he's really articulate, but as rapporteur, he is also just maddening. He will tell you that even your question is inaccurate- he will fight to on every term address weeping over the use of the term offline is inaccurate. It's not

line. Then you throw all these studies and statistics as to which many of these studies have been debunked by academics, but he still uses them. It's like talking to critical back is arguing with your high school debate coach. You know you're talking to a guy who really wants you to Lucy argument and I think, is really respected in some circles, because he has a very impressive resume. He has degrees from Harvard Yale the University of Oxford, and then he also has its other big help. It's a tool called the Interstate cross check, so Stop it's a massive voter tracking programme under Co Bach. It grew to include more than half of the total voter registration in the? U S, okay. So how does this thing work so about two dozen states are enrolled in this cross check programme, its free. They share information between states, keeping the voter ready

duration roles, clean states, dont want these duplicate voter registrations, and most often this happens when people move so out. When you move from floor to California, did you call the Secretary of State in Florida low? Didn't? That's. Ok, then, because you actually warrant breaking the law. Here's the deal it's not illegal We registered to vote in two states. That said, it is illegal to vote in the same election in two different states, so how's Coburg uses cross check system to go after voter fraud. This is where co bog sign it using cross check cobalt, persuaded the Kansas Legislature to give him the power to process cute these cases by himself, so he doesn't have to turn them over to the attorney general's office. Malign Deutz done All these other states? Okay? So all of a sudden Chris callback has the power of a prosecutor. What's he doing with it

Well, so far, he's turned up nine cases of this alleged voter fraud he's prosecuted them is colonies and they mostly pleaded down to misdemeanours and most of the people he caught up in this. Our older white republican men not illegal aliens again Cobb term. They often own property in two states and sometimes that's what gets him in trouble and, despite all the talk of voter fried by non citizens, callback has not prosecuted even one. Case, so Coburg is using these just a handful of cases to get lots of media attention even nationally, like say on Fox NEWS, is a huge problem, not a thing here this, but now Finally, and we only see the very top of the sliver of the iceberg because it so hard to detect actually caustic is on hold now- and it wasn't even used this year in Kansas or any other state, so as a while, the Department of Homer-

security came in when they heard of some problems. What funny is the call back had hoped to head. The department of Homeland Security the interviewed with President Trump about it, but now that agent ie, is in his state looking at cross check, and this late as to a woman named Anita parcel she's from Kansas. She has a computer science degree and she is appointed herself. The cross check watchdog She sounds kind of like Logan, Lamb, the cyber security expert in Georgia, to raise the alarm there right well like Lamb. I need a parcel. Did stumble across some very sensitive data. She's a stay at home mom. She lives in an affluent neighborhood in Kansas City. Birds, and that's where I visited heard this summer, she told me she's, become obsessed with cross check. I nearly got kicked out of a new year's parties. I wouldn't have borne on non about it. You know people's eyes Glaser were. Is she? Is Tunisia she's on Twitter?

she's going reporters she's filing public records, request, she's talking to anybody who will listen so in June, two thousand and seventeen when Kobuk as head of trumps election integrity, commission sent letters to all fifty states asking for them to turn over their voter roll a new departure was prepared. One day last June, I'm headed out the door you some errands and I happened to notice. The request for data and twitter is just aghast and stop put domino. I spent the entire day saying if you're worried about this, you should know It has been doing this. They have been sending this data to Kansas and eye over and over. To the point where apparently just copied it and wishes pasting it in response to people so much that day that I got shut out of twitter from looking like a bought that themselves about road with twitter. The black. Actually,

human beings could shed their answer. I mean it's kind of funny, but she really accomplished something. Her efforts put cross checking the news and the Department of Homeland Security has checked into the breaches cross check it should beyond this year and other states have gotten the message on that. Some have dropped out of cross check because of the security problems that Anita uncovered. She did this by making public records request to the state of Loretta. She got sensitive data on nine hundred and forty five candidates, including parts of their social security numbers and the encryption passwords for the cross check system. If we we're bad people. We could have sold that access in a heartbeat for a ton of money, a hundred million people's private data could have been. We had the key and we had the address. We had them both and we could have done all sorts of crack and what we did was we expose this, so they fix it. Initially, people worry the cross check

would be used to purge even more voters, especially minority voters, but I really didn't and evidence of that, nor did Anita she. Really change the narrative about cross check because she figured out that this system that supposed to help states clean up their voter roles, that what is Actually doing is exposing voters. Personal information is that so Your marketing effort, probably more than anything else, but that still hasn't made callback, give up on cross check and his campaign to market. This idea, voter fry, Cuba, is fighting and losing his battle against this major problem of voter fraud in federal but no less weight. Why was he a federal court cover likes to say that hazy, ACL you worst nightmare. Like that clipped the you played, but it's real the other way around the ACL. You is really kind of co box worst nightmare. He lost a very poor

the battle to them. This summer, when a federal judge overturn Kansas is voter Idee law. That requires you to show proof of citizenship, and I d in order to vote like a birth certificate or a passport or driver's license, and a federal judge said callback. Not only did not make his case that there's lots of this fraud. This judge Julie, Robinson, said the cobalt showed wilful failure in obeying her rulings, and his performance in court was so bad that this judge ordered him to take a refresher course in basic civil procedure. Even though coma used to be a wasp, pressure and need a person. Was there in the court house for the trial. I wish more people had been there for a first trial it had at all. I mean I don't think you usually get the kind of laughed track that that hat, I am a person like

I couldn't really watch Seinfeld very easily because George embarrassed me so much. I d, like a cow godlike fringy. It was too cringe doc, sometimes It was so bad you go the trial, your unprepared, your fumbling you're, embarrassing, you get corrected multiple times. You failed to prove your keys this in any way back when you could explore embarrassed free right, here's the thing politically. This did not hurt cobalt. He went on to win the republican primary for governor this summer by just a few votes here. He is on the campaign trail. I largely for Kansas what President's rob for America. When I interviewed in the summer, he told me that, if he's like, did he plans to keep on fighting this supposes voter fraud? Because thing is, is this is working for him?

even though he was humiliated in court federal Commission. Disbanded having achieved nothing. The department of Homeland Security Crackdown on cross check, but he still may become governor of Kansas thanks hard to this crusade? That he's led against a problem that doesn't really exist? That is a record that speaks for itself. Facebooking. Thank you as my pleasure. That was Peggy low of Casey. You are in Kansas City earlier this month, president Tromp was into Peter campaigning for go back and I want to introduce the next governor of care. That is a record that speaks for itself face baby. Thank you out and pleasure. There was Peggy low of Casey. You are in Kansas City. Earlier this month, president Tromp was into Peter campaigning.

Kansas has the most secure election laws in America. He didn't mention that a federal judge return that law in June. This in America, he didn't mention- should judge of return W a bead Atlanta ATM reports, the investment even documentary unit of american public media, their support from the corporation for Public Broadcasting, Michael Montgomery and Chasms Cowskin produced our show. Our editor was Deb George. We also had help from reveals errand sinking and micro court special thanks, Dave Man, Jeffrey Hang, a p M reports, answers

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