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A Memorial for the Living


Lessons from the world’s most perfect memorial.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pushed her question was nagging me who killed choose this truth problem. It isn't just bad its deadly Angela, poor and I'm a historian of Harvard and staff writer at the new Yorker has been a lot of time trying to solve mysteries like this one, so I decided to start a podcast. It's called the last archive hotel ten stories from last hundred years, a history of America and of our arguments about truth and evidence. The last archive brought to you by Pushkin industries in the space of week back before the world came to a halt. I took two trips: one was to downtown Manhattan to the night Levin Memorial,
came to say, I'd never visited before, even though Let him in at one Express subway stop away at seen. Pictures had walked right, by it, but for some reason, I'd never gone right up to it. So I did finally saw the two big holes in the ground, marking the spot where the twin towers once stood, saw them waterfalls, Blackstone, the somber lines of trees surrounding the memorial. It was pouring rain. There was no one else there. My second trip was to die Single Florida to unseasonably cold winter days? wanted to see a chart. I know that might seem hard who goes to Florida to see a chart, but there I said in the conference room of what looked like an old bank right by the freeway and someone hook
laptop up to a big screen and showed me a scatter plot x axis. Why axis a bunch of dots each in the shape of a human figure at the time I didn't think my visit to Florida and my visit to the nine eleven memorial as connected. They would to random quest seem like they might lead somewhere. That's what I do at the beginning of every year, when I- the research for new season of the show, I spend a lot of time doing random ideas, but then March came and the word turned very strange and very dark sat in my room and realized tat, those two trips we're about the same thing my name is making double you listings, revisionist history, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood This is the final episode
the season that has been preoccupied with understanding are attachments. Two objects to rituals traditions, to elaborate bits of machinery like airplanes. This episode is about our attachment to our memories, the things we choose to remember as a society and the things we choose to forget. In September, two thousand and one when two hijacked passenger jets crashed into the wood trade towers in New York City, a young architect named Michael a rod, was in downtown Manhattan and late couples nights after the attack I was on my vice gonna made my way to actions where part and the two or three in the morning there were a dozen or so while standing around that found in the middle of the park and their rights no ceremony. There is that speech there. It's just people standing there
together, not even european ones, in Toulouse and trees, and when I walked up to the edge of the fountain and stood next to a stranger. I felt for the first time and Two three days sense. Something shift that I was supported by this the boy in turn just by standing next to them our supporting them, and I think that sense of the longing for the first time. Push me in some way want to participate in this? Therefore, a memorial, a memorial. The vision that came to a rod was of two giant empty, concrete vessels in the Hudson River, a few blocks in the twin towers, each roughly the size and shape of the footprint hours themselves. Imagining the surface of the Hudson River, somehow shorn open forming. These two where voice in the water cascading into these voices.
Filling them up and down remained these empty inexplicable vessels a few years later, the city set up competition, to design a memorial for the site, it was largest design competition in history, over five thousand entries from sixty three countries including some of the most famous architects in the world. Michael a rod was a nobody. He worked New York's housing authority, designing police stations, guess original idea and moved it from the Hudson River, the actual site of the fallen towers too deep voids representing the footprint of the twin towers, each with a waterfall and selecting pool ringed by the names of those who died. He entered and he won the towers for about two hundred and twelve feet across and the reflecting pause See on the site today are
Seventy six feet across from water falls waterfall that waterfall is ringed by eight foot wide water table. That brings that out further to one hundred and ninety six, if I'm not mistaken and then surrounding that, one table where the names are displayed is area where you can walk round a pause and matters ringed by trees and so that First Rove treves it's rounds. Each was precisely two hundred and twelve feet across. He could his design, reflecting absence a precise representation of what was take. Away on the morning of none Levin What I wanted is conveyed to people who come here very clear Lee without embellishment. How large these towers were. Very evident when you stand it adds that pool, and there is something that no photographing capture until you. The sense of the scale of the. U S:
The next to this enormous spaces, you have to experience there, and to see the thousands of names that surround these two pupils to convey The loss of so many lives arrived. Seemed of something simple and beautiful. The task of making it real fell to the port authority, port authority bills and runs much of the transportation infrastructure in the New York region, the bridges tunnels, airports to like Matthew areas in house, engineer, contractor and handymen all in one your handymen had an annual budget in the billions they actually built regional World Trade Center and the responsible for building the memorial was theirs. I the it was aware just chatting, and so I ask the two
form Report authority executives who oversaw the memorial project, Chris Ward and David Treaty to meet me at ground zero. I wanted to wonder and what it means to make memory real in the way that a rod was proposing the complexity of just building you then laxity of the symbolism of the cultural. Why do people choose to put so much in the recitals Ass, a really are made once tractability None of this is where we start by really simple: I'm in the nine eleven memorial wasn't an ordinary project. That is in committee made it clear that they wanted something built on the site of the old towers, which created a logistical nightmare. Because ground zero isn't some vacant lot, it's one of the most dense. Urban spaces in the country. I met the porter through guys in the lobby of for World Trade Centre, which is seventy two
Nor high, but is also a one world trade center at a hundred and four stories and a two or three a plant. Five, an assassin the World Trade Center, plus the nine led museum of performing arts centre and a massive transit hub with a path commuter trains enter from New Jersey. The hub looks like the bones of a beast whale or a giant hair clip depending on perspective. That structure also contains a mall, neither at all running right through the middle is assessed. Way line the number one train. All of these structures had to be built same time is Michael rods. Memorial voids and because everything is basically on top of everything else, the logistics of planning and building were overwhelming.
So you have more elevation, you have a museum. You have real estate, you gotta Security centre, you ve gotta ecumenical religiously, you poor, all that in and then you ve got the overlay of the family were wondering no words MIKE duration. Where will I warn you that all in it's impossible to disentangle a set of priorities. Tweedy, wouldn't I stood by the two Blackstone voids in the pouring rain and they tried to explain what they went through. So we use the analogy that the construction was so difficult because it was like the children's game of pick up. Sticks but if you, if you know that little game where you got the multi colored sticks and if you pick up the other one moves, and then you lose everything is connected to political
the ship in New York made it clear that the memorial had to be finished in time for the tenth anniversary of the attacks September, eleventh twenty eleven just to be tangible, about moral plaza with your honor pressure to get done by the tenth anniversary is sitting on the ceiling of the hub. The hub, the place where the under on transit lines, converge. We have completely refashion the construction process and how that up got build up huge costs. One way in order to get this done from the top down. Traditional the normal traditional way is to built from the bottom up start with the foundation. Go from there and twenty says the Port Authority originally had a plan to do things that way. The problem was: what do you do that schedule, the memorial
plaza, wouldn't have been done at the end of twenty thirteen, and so we that's when we started to go. Wait in the city is not going to tolerate the port authority telling them be telling them you can have the weight of twenty thirteen before you can commemorate the anniversary and dates matter. Ten years is different than thirteen years, which is different than twelve years. You know the engineers couple them came up with the idea. The ceiling first, basically across the entire site, with a ceiling which is the ceiling of what's blowers but, most importantly, the floor of the plaza and then once you ve done that build down from their as if that wasn't enough
The governor of New York at the time insisted that the subway the number one line keep running throughout all this, so they had to build a box around the subway tracks to spend the box high above the site and work around it, which is one of those odd facts that you only think about. If you live in New York, and you took the number one train, as I did many times in those years and you suddenly realised that, on all of those trips, you were in a real life version of gender. You know the game? Will you have a stack of building blocks in Europe of them one by one until everything crashes, so there is a whole region. Engineering of how you support the one train, how the path train would get protected. Remember you got an operating railroad, so you're you're building attempt very structure and housing, the ceiling of a hub. We train tracks below you when the one families
If we lose what is here but the path trains were to write on the ruling platforms extract, that's exactly you! You build a platform on, then you want the memorial on top of the planet. One and even is things going on an among your feeder. You that's what I was getting up before your feeding the construction horizontally, rather vertically, which added you know added above sixty million dollars with additional costs to annul the like. I was saying that one point you have people hand excavating underneath the one tree, because they just wasn't room to get any every equipment. If you could put them. Oil in the Hudson River, you wouldn't have this problem of course build some filings into the river bed, and if you did I have to race and finished by September. 11Th, two thousand and eleven your life would be easier as well. You could start at the bottom and build up the normal way, not start at the top.
Bill down in the service of fulfilling the very strict requirements of memory, something that could have been straightforward was turned into something very complicated, so again take something as simple as it exactly where we stand here. Here's ears brass. With all the days we were standing by the perimeter of one of the voids. What was pointing at the those of names of all those who died in the attacks, the names, in Boston, Brass, an inlaid, the void, stone walls, it's meant to be something solid, that people can touch, but if you're the port authority, you have to think through the implications of that you're, the ability for drastic picture heats and they have a really really hard day. Someone could put there and on this they could get literally. A second degree burn of the sun has been on this all day, so there's a cooling system underneath this brass so that it will always stay safe. So people can
touch at the same time, if a little kid in the middle of winter, when it's freezing came out here and want to stick his tongue on it, you know the famous you get stuck to the flagpole in the playground. So there's a heating, underneath years! Well, so, just to end up showing these names, you ve got a system which is both heating and cooling, a copper you know facade here for where the names are at. While, if you just need concrete with you a lot of different ways, you could have put names, you know out there, but this was in there they're all back live as you can see. So in some respects would there be a more efficient way to have names working absolutely, but this is a special site, in the end, the price tag for the national September, eleven Memorial and museum came to see were around seven hundred million dollars to put that in perspective,
cost of the Vietnam Memorial in today's dollars was twenty million The cost of the Lincoln Memorial in today's dollars was forty five million Now is seven hundred million dollars too much. I don't know it depends on what you're comparing it too. I suppose the point is that we could have done it for less, but we chose not to because we wanted to memorialize that event as perfectly and precisely as possible, down to its dimensions, location and date of completion when we want, two we take our memories very seriously. The maintenance schedule or that cutting must be. It intends to rewrite cat fail right. It sits on the ice. In the winter issue raised that hasn't warming makes it easier. So
One of the problems is, if you ll see the way the water flows underneath the perimeter- it's, for example, to the to the ground here about the site: You got a heavy wind in the winter time and then whips across the top. It picks up, moisture and then flows it on to this brick was done for Tennessee Crates ice conditions between keeping the fountains going and security and the heating and cooling systems and the museum staff and shipping the ice off the brick. The operating budget for the memorial comes to another eighty million dollars a year, so all told we're somewhere over one point. Five billion dollars for the memorial so far
The nine eleven memorial is option number one from memory management. The alternative option Amber too is Jacksonville had another long chap with my friend no receive yes, that no turns out he's getting me art acting in a kind of don't blame, and he said to me, Malcolm I'm, having a heck of a time finding all the animals I need problem is he's working off specks from the first time around three thousand years ago. He said to me just take slots, for example, I need to mainstream
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gee I'm a d w e? How either I Michael Louis posted against the rules and we're back for our second sees it we're talking about coaches. It wasn't that long ago that we only had coaches in sports, but now there are life, coaches and deaf coaches. You can even higher coach to improve your online dating performance and your charisma. The coaching has become an odd source of unfairness, who has access to these good, who doesn't find against the rules wherever you listened brought to you by pushing industries? Do you have? There has been a large lies in the form of anxious review of us, our Jamaica, did. I went to Jacksonville Florida during the count every homeless organization in the country. Does this journalist
ten days of January. Every volunteers go out and count the number of people living on the streets. The group I went to see changing homelessness had a hundred and eighty volunteers divided up into shifts morning afternoon and evening. Gathering information organised over these are one word earlier. We were felony became homeless adieu, and how much did you like run away from the family was our violate any everything? Mister Jackson, did its first count more than fifteen years ago, more as an academic exercise than anything else. We really honestly thought we knew we need do we need to do a right. We know everybody that Stone Gilman, who runs changing homelessness. The more they thought about this idea of a registry, the more they will
if they were missing people. What if they were homeless people out there, who never stated shelter or who never showed up looking for services, so Gilman decided to do a real count the first time we went out when it was convenient for our clients and not convenient for us. We went out between four and six a m on a Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, the idea being, if you're on the streets. In the early morning. You really are home. You are almost that's where he spent the night. So now the count. The volunteers gather before sunrise college students. Formerly homeless, people who remember what it was like on the streets teachers helping out before their day starts. Nurses from the nearby hospitals, the carry with them. Hygiene kits, toothpaste, socks, soap, shampoo, they fan out across Jacksonville, looking under bridges and park cars
abandoned buildings. If you're sleeping they leave you alone. If you're awake, they ask questions what they learn gets fed into something called the by name list, and the data from that list is graft. As a scatter plot that was the chart, I went down to Jacksonville to see each homeless person. Found is represented by an icon on the chart. The vertical axis measure of vulnerability do they have done abilities or mental illness. Can I take care of themselves the horizontal access measures, how long they ve been without housing. If you name it Here's down in the left, hand corner that means, you're pretty healthy and haven't been on this Sat long, if you in the upper right hand, corner vulnerable and homeless for an extended period of time, it's a different story. Looking at that scattered hot, it's not that it's little people say
it's always bringing back to, even though we're looking at aggregate data were always bringing back to the individual whose experiencing homelessness. So we know their name. We know who they are. The fundamental condition of homelessness is invisibility, those on the streets easiest to ignore and the easiest to forget. The scatter plot reminds us who they are, what their lives are like, what their need Sir. I pointed to someone way over on the right hand, side by side with the most vulnerable people who clustered Don governments colleague, Charles Temple, Recognizes the name right away, he's talked about every meeting that we have now that guy dagger she's here Guy we get him house, like our whole, that drugs are whole every time some of these kinds, even if they're not up on the vulnerability index there, they can be difficult for people to work with
People need all kinds of help. Others really We need one thing: housing the witch humans are clear: county guy, it's been out there for a long time he's belong. List for over a year? And it's like she's, like you, send, there's just nothing out there for them, but we bring em up every week we talk about every week and actually, just last week we may have to identify the housing resource. Hud Vash might take him, make a waiver actually accept every Tuesday at one o clock in the same room where I'm sitting key housing advocates in Jacksonville gather and come through this list, all the names one by one what's happening, I mean: what way is the barrier? Is it because they want stay in a particular part of our community and there's not a whole lot of affordable housing there? Is it because A very recent eviction is it because they have a very recent or violent felony at some point and how do we, who are landlords at will maybe work with this person, the names
the Jacksonville list arranged deliberately where they fall on a scatter plot gives each name meaning, and I was struck, as I sat in that car and shrimp by how similar that was too the names list leaden Memorial, the victim their suffer from the same condition of invisibility and the list of the names around the top of the boys is supposed to give them permanence. Why not? Do it alphabetically, like, like other memorials to one of the biggest reason, at least to my mind? Is you lose so much of the story of the people? By doing there
the job of figuring out, which name went where on the parapet fell to another architect and Michael arrives team Amanda Sacks. I think it important to know if they are on a plane if they were the north tower or south power. If they were first responder, I think it is at a level of meaning it bring meaning to their name as much as possible. I also think you know one of the other reasons. Just a very basic reason was there. Are there are few people with very similar name? There are people with names that only the middle name is different. When you, when you list these people alphabetical,
I think it loses. You, SAM the sense of people as individual. The guiding principle of sexes work with something Michael ROD called meaningful adjacency. What it means is at every person is place along the parapet and adjacent see with one or two or sometimes three people also obviously other victims they were in some way close with two thousand nine hundred and eighty two people died that day their names are first grouped according to the floor of the tower they worked on or the plane. They were on or if they were emergency rescue, the latter company they belong to. Then, within those groups, each name of the dead was placed nearest. The people who meant the most of them sacks had to work out each.
Of those relationships and determined patterns behind all. Those long columns of names. I would say I spent two years the three years on the arrangements just trying to understand the relationship. Trying to do this kind of task. However good work, and would you any it Jake was you that were particularly meaningful. I have to say, I think for me the whole I mean every every person on a memorial was the getting emotional.
I can't say that any any adjacency had any more important than any other. I mean some stories are no use. You think what kind of crazy like, for example, to fight one seventy five and there was another woman and fight eleven, and I can remember exactly what the relationship was. I think one of them was the God parent of the other and fight eleven went into the North tower and white and seventy five one
when I get the South power and the fact that there were people they knew each other almost planes is insane sacks wanted to find a way to put the names of those two people as close together as possible. Maybe at the point at which the group of names who died in the north tower touched a group of names from South Tower, we actually wanted them to be achieved since as the Jason as possible. So we wanted the one in the North pole to the lower right hand, corner and the South Pole would anyway be towards the Upper North West Corner. She tried a hundred different ways to planet. I couldn't make it work
so yeah. I've kind of sad, the one adjacency that we didn't get is the one that I am remembering yeah, but I just you know, as I said before, just every name. Every person has so much importance. I don't I can't really say otherwise We have a memorial for the dead at ground, zero arranged according to their relationships. And we have a memorial for the living in Jacksonville, a scatter plot of the homeless array according to their needs. Two memorials with the same intent, because when we add context, two names names become real but
course. Once you start reflecting on the similarities between ground, zero and Jacksonville, then inevitably you start thinking about the differences. Start your mornings with the news that matters in just ten minutes. I am neither Bhutto host of axioms today, every week day I'll be talking to a team of award winning journalists to bring you scoops from the White House, analysis on the economy and insights into the. Trends shaping our world access is known for our smart brevity reporting and our news, letters and HBO show. Now we ve teamed up with Pushkin industries to bring that two podcast. It's like taking a seat at the smartest breakfast table in the world. Listen wherever you get. Your favorite pod casts sponsored by Sharon, and Goldman Sachs Marijuana, motorcycles, mayhem, deep covers
true story. It began with an FBI agents going under cover like her gay and ends with well a war of food Scale: U S: innovation, I'm Jake Helper, I'm a journalist and for the story I did dive bars, horse farms, backwater, swamps, talk too happy. Agents to pirate reactors and a bunch of big time drug smugglers. Lucinda deep cover. Now, in your favour, podcast app for deep cover, pod dotcom brought to you by pushing industries. Initially, it was actually drawn to eastern white people Trees are very tall towering again. There is just some and evergreen read somewhere. Description of them being described serve their towering giants of the forest, Michael, a rod was told him.
Original design for the nine eleven memorial was too bleak to voids on an empty windswept plaza. So he decided to add tree and I thought there was something beautiful- that idea. Effectually level back your gaze upward toward the sky. While you were there and to design and that about seventy or eighty of them on the plaza. But that didn't feel quite right. Enough arrived deliberated with his partner in the memorials design, the landscape, architect, Peter Walker, they settled on Swamp White oaks, a gorgeous tree, peeling bark lustrous sloped to tones
leaves green with a silvery underside, but then, of course, it was left to the port authority to David Tweedy and Chris Ward, to figure out how to plant a forest suspended a top a transit hub. So then, at all of these tree it weight of these trees. The laid for at least a year figure out the engineering to put all these tree by heart, but always phaser when you're, not a dirt
necessary and the most her that goes into the dirt in the weight, as there is a void, undermining billion dollars of a different structure of additional structural support on the buildings under naughty million just to support the weight of the tree and how many cheese either think reentered sixty sixty two each is each tree. So here's if she went, went what what's Benito danish locks and there's literally man made dirt, which is super light compared to nature made with the material and at which allows it to capture moisture, to be very efficient for maintaining the elder the trees. But each box has its own voice, your reader inside of it, so they can tell
You know when, as you know, the tree is threatened, so you got an eastern part of that. You got this amount of technology, they put anywhere else. You go my god. This is. These are just trees, but not just trees. Perfect trees, peeling park, lustrous slope to turn leaves trees that are fed and cared for, and each given their own place to live our biggest box Bobby up like here. So, like ten bite, and then we might as well in the problem was when you begin to move em over areas. Where was there was less infrastructure underneath it got even more expensive to build the box and then bring this infrastructure. We want to support the bargain trees with an expensive spoke. Careful. Engineered social support system. But again that was driven from
Suddenly a security guard came running up. Apparently we needed authorization to conduct our interview, the attention to do tale at the name let Memorial extends Eve. To win and how you are allowed to engage in recorded conversation, the guys who built before Thank you examine the director of the Port authority within ran out of any there was no police officer. Will you ask to do the media deployment of power We ended up, leaving the Memorial Plaza for the sidewalk fifty yards away. We stood in the rain and looked back at the exacting beauty
what is act of collective memory to nine hundred and eleven memorial is perfect, but the Jacksonville Memorial is not it's messy. A work in progress names get taken off the list when people find apartments or move away and new people get to the list of time. Do the exits stay ahead of the entries. We do measure and flow outflow on a regular basis, and we want to see are in flow less than our outflow, but we are teetering pretty much on the same amount that we are exiting where once we are housing same mountain we are seeing so marries close, but I think there still a gap in yeah yeah, So you not over time you not. The rum is not, it is or shrinking, but it is fully slow, there's no more
why it's painfully slow. We would loved the master lease a hundred one. Dream units that are at a price point that our rapidly housing clients could reasonably maintain it. We we just can't find him There were a number of years lot where I've been here. I think what you were doing this to where we could find those early days. Did they were out there like many other play is some of those older. Yes, there quirky an interesting they're starting to get rehash. The rents will go up and then the people that used to be able to afford them cannot anymore human said the right now she can find the money to put her clients in apartments at rent for up to six hundred and fifty dollars a month for the just aren't any apartments in that range and Jacksonville,
If she could find the money for an eight hundred dollars a month apartment, it would make things far easier. But where are you going to find an extra hundred and fifty dollars a month who s that kind of money? around we are hitting the while. We really, we really now, as a community, have to pay attention to this. If our goal is to have fewer people out on the streets, instead of more, we gotta start figuring out. How do we build more deeply affordable housing faster? Some portion of the people who do not get help end up dying on the streets? Almost every community in the country has a service for those who fallen. It happens in late December winter solstice become a tradition in Jacksonville,
the service is held at the city. Rescue mission downtown acquire sings. A local pastor gives the homily. Then Don Gilman performs her fine. The duty of the year I had the honour to the last ten years, every the names and the list is always too long and before I read the name, I remind everybody that there are six categories of homeless people and that someone's mother or someone's father someone sign or someone's daughter, or their sister or the Brok. So it's it's, More than that scattered fire Many people were on the lists lust in December. Three thirty, six. Thirty six, the optimist in me
always thought that the ultimate purpose of memorials was that they were dress rehearsals for our collective memory, that, in the course of building a shrine the fallen. We reminded ourselves of our broader obligations to the vulnerable. You give the benefit of your empathy. And generosity to the member of someone who was on a plane hijacked by terrorists, the memory of someone who worked in a toppled tower and then it becomes easier to extend that empathy and generosity to the loan and the suffering who are still among us. You get good at meaningful adjacency for the dead, and that makes you better at practising it on the living. But that's not what happens is if we go to any lengths any legs to commemorate one person's death deploy armies of architects and engineers, then, in the same breath, look the other way
as we step over someone lying on the street. Gorgeous mausoleum for the dead, a scatter block for the living crystal HANS sturdy to SAM set out its twenty five. Went home from Jacksonville and spent an afternoon watching winter souls to services on Youtube, Minneapolis, Philadelphia, Spokane San Francisco, small groups of people huddled together in the cold of December night, holding candles, singing hymns Jesse
Jostle, Hudson Marina, then reading the names of the dead, hundreds of them, George Randal, aged twenty, three Edward Tunisia Aged forty, seven, oh, no! No! No! I watched until I couldn't any more than I wept.
Provision of history is produced by meal, a bell and leaving us too, with Jacob Smith Halloween. Let an otter nine. Editor. Is Julia Barton original scoring by Luis Gara, mastering by Williams fact checking by death Johnson special thanks to the Pushkin crew. Heather Fain colleague, Liore, Maya, Canuck, Eric Sandler, Maggie Taylor, Jason, Gambro and, of course, Jacob Whisper and from everyone here, Pushkin Thank you for listening to another season. A provision is history.
You are the reason we have the privilege of revising history. Every year, I'm not gonna grab.
Transcript generated on 2020-08-20.