This week we're featuring the second episode of The Last Archive, a new podcast hosted by Harvard historian and New Yorker staff writer Jill Lepore.
When a young black man is charged with murder under unusual circumstances in 1922, he trusts his fate to a strange new machine: A lie detector. It was invented by the man who went on to create Wonder Woman, and whose whole life was a strange blur of fact and fiction.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hi everyone, Malcolm here, will be bringing you the winning, though getter of our revisionist revisited competition. Next week it was a nail minor right now I have to tell-
you about a stunning new show from Pushkin industries because you're gonna love, it is called the last archive conceived of written and hosted,
By one of the smartest historians on this planet, jeweller poor she's, a professor at heart,
staff, writer at the new Yorker and her podcast pursues a mystery across time who killed truth. Each episode tells a story from a different dec.
In american history, Joe, was also inspired by old fashioned radio dramas. Thirteen.
Crackdown is sound effects lobby for the nineteen thirty one that had been city,
around an archive on discs made from Shall act, resin shall act and we did them so they produce
could sprinkle. These sounds of the past Rather series. The result is that nothing you ve ever her before
this shows out now. Here's the second episode. It's called the detection of deception given to listen and then subscribe to the last archive. Imagine there's a place in our world where the known things
go a corridor of the mind its work,
lined with shelves stopped with proof and cluttered with clues here
on top of this filing cabinet, a wooden box with a brass name. Please-
W M M M slacked this place this
vault stores the facts that matter and matter.
that stands between reasonable doubt and the chaos of uncertainty
eyes a time between now and then the sign on.
Door reads. The last archive
mind your watch back a century step across
the threshold and entail
Lecture hall, the guy
met twice a week and american University two blocks from the White House in the spring of nineteen twenty two in the evening.
Students were lawyers. There were young men, the professor, only twenty eight was hardly older than his students, William Molten Marston, but
Sir Marston had a beer and a J D and a Phd
was an intellectual, rogue handsome danger,
Sleep charming almost.
Charming, as he was ambitious. He was trying to
to publish a new discipline, the science of testimony, the signs of
Oh, you know whether someone is telling the truth. He liked to teach by way of experiment and on this particular evening he was conducting expire,
on what I witnessed can actually notice and remember.
Seems to be a regrettable fact that little systematic psychological experimentation,
and is being carried on in the field of testimony much
valuable material is being produced by psychiatrists, sociologists and criminologists from time to time. But the subjects of such studies
I psychopathic perfect or criminal variance from the criminal variants enter yes,
in the middle of Marston, his lecture, a young man entered the hall. He wore leather gloves in his right hand,
He carried an envelope tucked under his left arm were three books. One read one Green one: Blue I've read Martians lecture on a reddish report on this experiment. What happened next, I like
Imagine sorry to interrupt served by the message
your handed the professor, the envelope professor Marston, opened the envelope pulled out a yellow paper and read its contents.
Well. Professor Marston was reading the message. The messenger slid a second antelope and Professor Martians Pocket and then
the messenger using only his right hand,
pulled out of his own pocket along
green handled knife, the messenger opened the knife and big
scraping his gloved left thumb with edge of the blade sharpening it on the leather Bobo. Only yes, Sir students
that man was an actor words faces finnish, IRAN, an experiment take out afresh, cheap
no paper, this very instant and write down every fact about what just occurred every last detail, no matter how seemingly insignificant you have one minute
my dear listeners, these people are actors, and
Two has been assure odd and experiment. Please now
This variants to tell me what you just heard
you can remember all the details. Let me see if you left anything out.
What university earlier in what year? What time of days it we're part of
country was the messenger from
color was his knife,
well down your pencils faster
paper to the front of the rules for identified exactly one hundred and forty seven facts that the students could
observed about the messenger, the number and the color of the books, the fact,
held them under one arm. His left, the color of the paper in the first envelope yellow
and then Professor Marston collected his students responses and tallied the results of one hundred and forty seven observable.
Facts. The class on average noticed only thirty six and since two of these facts, whereas I am only counting thirty, four
thirty. Four out of one hundred and forty seven facts for a testimonial accuracy rate of precisely twenty three percent
not a single one of you notice them
This is the last archive
the show about how we know what we know, how we use
no things and why it seems somewhat
slightly as if we don't know anything at all. I'm Jill Angela, poor,
season we're trying to solve a crime who killed tooth this episode,
we're looking at a trial set in motion by the experiment. Professor Marston conducted that night in nineteen twenty, two
experiment that involve the machine, a machine you ve probably heard about it. You ever hear of a lie: the lie, detector, you probably know it
in the movies. You may write you a letter that the machine itself, the polygraph machine, was invented by someone else, but the test. The blood pressure
asked that had been invented by William Molten Marston. That professor who like to experiment on his students,
Most of us are very good at telling whether or not other people are lying. Marston thought a machine could tell better.
You see. The even little line is NATO's making.
When you tell a lie, your pulse Quicken and this needle shows it on the job. We take this sort of thing, this sort of movie scene.
Granted there seems like it's all over the place: every police, procedural, every episode of law and order. But when you're connecting historical investigation, you supposed to pause and think about the things you take for granted
think about them until you don't take them for granted anymore until they get weird
the way if you think about a word like Palmprint goal. After while it starts to sound, really strange tamper, nickel hamper nickel polygraph polygraph and once things get strange, you can ask questions about them. You can see them more clearly,
you can ask why trust a blood pressure test more than your own judgement. It used to be that only God could decide the truth of testimony for
centuries murder trials involve the court's trying to get God to speak through the dead body. If it bled. When you touched it, you were guilty
even after trial by jury. Replace this sort of thing trial by
This idea that the did speak lingered in its way
The lighted sector is the kind of ordeal except it doesn't look for guilt in the blood of the corpse. It looks for guilt in the blood of the accused.
Marston described his method in his undergraduate thesis,
Special problem suggested to me in the Harvard Psychological Laboratory was an investigation and the changes in blood pressure resulting from an effort to hide the truth. Marston get refining is truth Escobar through graduate school and law school and during the first world war.
When he did experiments on soldiers and prisoners of war. He was seeking famine fortune for sure
but he also had a noble motive when please couldn't get criminals to confess they pretty off and beat them up, they gave them was called the third degree arson at the idea that if police had a lie detector, they stop beating
and I didn't want you to have the same times- use teaching and American University in Washington Marston decided that the time had come for real world test. He wanted to prove that is. Method worked to do that. He wanted to get the results of a lie. Detector admitted as evidence in a criminal trial. He needed a client desperate enough to hand his fate over to an untried experiment. Inspector Clifford I'll grab record of an interrogation August, twenty second, nineteen, twenty one, one thirty pm. What is your name James or cancel fry James off
and so fry would soon become the subject of another one of Professor Marston experiments, for I was young and unmarried. He was lean and handsome with short, hair and big ears. He fought in the war, he worked into dentists office and it was broke as he later
I was a young man of twenty one years penniless the quartet
Find me a lawyer: police are charged games, Alfonso fry with the murder of Doktor Robert Wade, Brown, the president of the National Life Insurance Company and the richest black man in Washington.
As we know about the night ducked around died with us.
Today, in November nineteen, twenty brows hosting a party at his house,
Celebrating his arm amateurs football victory. When someone
Brown would answer
not dead on his very doorstep, the murder-
Some people said escaped down an alley,
Browns grieving family and his company together off
a thousand dollar reward. But the investigation had come up short,
although a lot of browns guests, witness the murder or at least glimpse the murderer, it'll happen. So suddenly
that they could remember hardly any details. Months later, the plea
we're still searching for doktor rounds killer when they
steady young black men on an unrelated robbery charge who was fry
He had a cousin had robbed, gave a wallet, ring and watch a petty theft
in his trial for robbery, one witness a man who worked at the same dentists offices, for I told the police that fry
fast to him that he for I had killed doktor our brown.
And it turned out that, for I had in fact been a doctor Browns House on the night,
murder and media.
A gun, and when the police question fry, he confessed to the murder. The police had to get that confession on
so they brought him into an interrogation room where they questioned him all over again. They were
the maiden audio recording. This is nineteen. Twenty one, a little too
for that, but they made a transcript
here. In the last archive we ve got a copy your job, my colleague that you killed Doctor
Are you going to tell me about it? Yes, sir, when I first want to doktor browser had a dollar, and I asked him to give me a procedure,
because I have been told I had gonorrhea real bad. He then setting
didn't do anything for me for dollar. He said: don't you son of a
which come around here with only one dollar five said. Then he laughed.
Gone to try to raise money for the medicine by putting his pistol a forty five automatic. No luck! So he said he went back to browns with his loaded gun, tucked into the belt of his pants, but when he got there
He said Brown sent him away again, told him if he didn't have the money to get lost and it struck me over the left out
Did you have any weapon in his head? No sir, then I took a but of the gun and hidden, and that didn't do any good, because he struck me again try to want to the door. He grabbed me again. I told her
the put his hands up. If you get one hitting me hit him on the head and then the struggle, I think my gun was fired, they're just there, but that slight cautious admission. I think my gun was fired. James FRY confessed,
to killing brown, but fry, who didn't even have a dollar paper prescription, couldn't afford a lawyer. Here's your doktor Marston comes in
and, of course, on the law of evidence to his young students, told him about the case.
And then I volunteered to take fries case for free defending him against the charge of murder. First
went to visit fry in prison. The students, professor, more
and his contraption a blood pressure cuff- or
MO monitor. Marston hooked fry up, someone took a photograph
you can see things in a photograph that you can't see in a transcript in the photograph fry, a black man,
surrounded by white men, Professor Marston and his law students Alan Dark suits.
As they strive fry into Martians Machine Marston, grasps fries arm taking readings from his body. Fry later described, the experience.
Several months after I had been confined in the DC jail. My attorneys came to see me accompanying a professor Marston
This learn doktor was later known to me as the inventor of the lie detector. He asked if I would submit to the use of this instrument to such requests. I readily agreed. He asked me several
Oceans, none pertaining to the case the suddenly he large upon several questions going into every detail of the case at the metropolitan courthouse. One month later, this graph was supposed to be the case in the hole for fries defence, and perhaps they would catapult
Professor Marston Defame as the greatest legal mind of his generation, but the judge assigned to the case chief justice, Walter Mccoy was famously stern and he was miffed
This was a big murder trial and a lot of disease black community had come out for it and Marston had alerted the press about,
or a lotta reporters there to Judge Mccoy was no fool. He saw
in the trial, the long game. This professor Marston was playing Marston wanted to replace trial by jury with trial by lighted.
After all, our eyes, the prosecution called the detective who had taken fries confession. I call withstand Addictive Clifford Grand interrogated James FRY on August. Twenty second, nineteen, twenty one detective grant.
Find that fry had confessed to him, but then fries lawyer maddeningly
sturdy. Bringing in his witnesses. I called to the stand James FRY could have a glass of water, not a word. My confession was true fry recanted. He insisted that he hadn't killed. Brown is going to be hard to convince a jury of this. The martian offered to prove with his lighter,
where the real truth lay it was a slim hope for I knew fry later, wrote that there had been no real chance for a black man in Washington and nineteen twenty two to get a fair trial. If I'm neatly dressed and can explain myself.
I consider it being a smart Alec and must be guilty.
Dressed in overall unable to explain
The situation then
a brute, is still
let's be guilty,
in any ordinary trial. A train of witnesses would make their statements the guests at Brands House, the police who investigated the crime. The people who could give evidence in support of it
as alibi and then the jury. Twelve white men would decide who to believe those men would find the facts of the case and issue a verdict, but which words of
eyes were true. The convention had given to the police or the recanting. He did right there on the stand. Fries lawyer gamely tried to follow the Marston Defence plan.
If your honor, please at this time I had intended to offer in evidence the testimony of Doktor William,
Marston as an expert in deception. Is testimony on what,
testimony as to the truth or
pretty of certain statements of the defendant. If your honor plea view objective- and I will sustain the objection- no
judge? It admitted the lie detector test as evidence and Mccoy didn't want to be the first one to do it. He all, but begged the prosecution, to object to this evidence and when they didn't, he began objecting himself, but witness
here on the stand, and it is for the jury to determine whether or not he was telling the truth
That is very true. Your your honor, but as expert testimony is not this proper, as competent evidence to go before the jury, too
Certain. What Doktor Marston opinion is that this time? Oh well, we
to be more or less experts. Ourselves
So do the jury upon the question of whether anybody is telling the truth or not. That is what the jury is for. That is what the jury is for:
Has it taken centuries for ordinary people, even if only still men white men to gain the right,
his jurors at the guilt or innocence of their peers, but in the
decades of the twentieth century, a lot of scientists calling themselves experts
They knew quite a bit more than jurors that they had tools
since even machines tat could find out the truth, Judge Mccoy with smart enough to see the size of William Martians ambition and he was determined to foil it when the neck.
Witness came to the stand. Maddeningly again approached the bench he had another proposition. I love this part. The jousting the little.
All but maddeningly- was wildly outmatched air. Your honor, please, before them
witness begins to testify. May I inquire
whether your honour would permit us systolic blood pressure test to be taken during
an examination of the witness on the stand
we are going to have a say
taller test? We will have to test every witness who testifies in this case if there is any site
it's about it? We might as well apply the science to every witness, mind you. I do not know anything about the test at all. I had certain
Endless submitted to me yesterday to look out of some doktor Marston, I believe his thesis when he got his phd degree.
I want going to read them when I come back from
vacation, I see
not enough to know that so far the science has not so
jointly develop, detection of deception by blood pressure,
get a useful instrument in a court of law when it is developed to the perfection of the teller.
And the telegraph and wireless and a few other things we will
Cigarette I shall
he's dead by that time, probably end
What bothers some other judge not me.
Dr Mccoy piece of work.
That magically bumbled along for little while before concluding and then the press.
Fusion delivered its closing words James Fries,
most colossal liar that ever appeared in court. I rest my case.
The jury deliberated for less than an hour and found James fry guilty of second degree. Murder, Judge Mccoy, sentenced him to life in prison and fry went by train to Leavenworth, who spoke to spend the rest of his days in jail. Professor Marston was conducting an experiment, but it's not an accident that is test. Subject was a penniless black man accused of murder,
Marston became a psychologist at a time when social scientists of every stripe were expected to try and solve what was called the negro problem. But that problem was shifted all the time, but never the commitment to the notion that facts alone couldn't solve the negro problem. Only numbers good social scientists counted everything. They measured the circumference of the skull, the length of a life, the density of a neighbour,
the pressure of blood nearly a century after the free trial historian, still spending
time? Looking back at this moment, the period from about eighteen, ninety, two, nineteen, thirty
some of the best work in this field is done by a colleague of mine, Colleen,
Gibran Mohammed, professor of history, race and public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School
The first time I met him was at an academic conference where the one word title numbers rebels really in
stood in numbers and why people count things who kind of knowledge numbers add up to and what they
Subtract, while the most amazing things about the late nineteenth century. Looking at that kind of local and national data, his added look today
I can accept, sketchy printed out and folded. Many many times over
Clear Mohammed work focuses on how, after this civil war after emancipation, sociologists
government agencies collected statistics on black crime to argue that boy
people were, by their very nature, criminal that they were genetically not fit for their freedom and so had to be watched and studied endlessly. You chrome
think of it like a person who is in rehab, and you develop certain protocols to keep track of their progress
how many meals how many hours you they sleep, one of the signs of a healthy lifestyle where you wouldn't do this for normal person, you wouldn't people edge of such things, and so was that test
Therefore it was that ledger keeping of African Americans that was a reflection of those same progressive thinking like people or not.
They are fully ready for full participation.
We'll keep an eye on this crime weather.
As we live in the wake of all these ideas are baked in to our consciousness already. So we know
what to make of it.
We can either make of it that, like about
I'm problem or
A black people are subject to systematic races, Missis
or we might say some extra about this
ideas we live in, that are already in our consciousness, aloud
go back to a man named Frederick Hoffman in eighteen. Ninety six, he published a book called race traits and tendencies of the american Negro half and wanted to argue that blacks
inferior up until then, those arguments had been based on racial pseudoscience measuring skull sizes or some other physical differences. Pop moon,
pretty innovative and shifting their gaze to crime statistics and from that point forward,
the framework that he used, that the disproportion evidence of by people being imprison was.
Was on its own, with no further
Analysis, no footnotes, no Astor the best proof that black people were inferior to people of european descent.
Police discrimination, brutality didn't matter. It's ok,
none of that matter here. If you haven't, after they were one and the culture. Just silk set up like a sponge
yeah and it still does
Sir, William molten Marston. He went
to turn James for I into a set of numbers. The numbers on the graph paper from his lie detector test mark
and wanted to turn fry into a number, not to prove that he was a criminal, but to prove that he wasn't. Then maybe I should admit here.
I don't know whether James for I was guilty or not. He was at the scene of the crime yet emotive, he had a weapon and he confessed so looks pretty bad
but then again, Marston had a lot on the line and he was pretty sure
that, for I was innocent
I might not be sure whether fry was guilty or not.
Pretty sure Marston ever expected to get fry acquitted. Instead, he was hoping to take fries case all the way to the Supreme Court.
To demonstrate the merit of his invention, Marston dreamed,
convincing the nations highest court that his machine could tell
than any jury. Who was telling the truth. Men come to judge this question by certain arbitrary
standards in the course of their dealings with others have to fry, went to prison. Marston helped to student lawyers file an appeal.
To be honest, I'm pretty sure Marston just wrote the brief himself. It asked. How does the court tell whether or not someone is lying?
The decision may hinge upon the look in the eyes the expression on her face the nervous condition of the witness, the rosy flush which suffuses has come
thence, or a pot of any one of many other evidences which may or may not be taken to indicate truth or deception. We say that there is no standard
no logical, a reasonable basis for the determination of this question in general, in the absence of positive evidence of deception, and that if science has developed the method of accurately
determining whether a man is in a mental condition or state of truth or of deception. The court and joy
they should be given the benefit of this assistance. But the state in its own brief, said that the idea of trial by lie. Detector was ridiculous. Whatever may be set against the system of trial by jury under the constitution and laws, a jury of twelve impartial manner, peculiarly fitted to sift conflicting and contradictory. Testimony and arrive at a just verdict.
As for Marston, whether he can or cannot detect. Deception is something that does not appear to be no new anyone except Doktor Marston at the end of nineteen twenty three, the Dc Circuit Court of Appeals,
issued its decision and fry versus the United States. The court ruled against fry and
against Marston and his light a director and the decision is
published a new rule of evidence, something that came to be called the fry test. It became the most
cited precedent in the history of law and science. The fry test as a test of evidence.
Rule that a judge applies and deciding whether or not to admit the testimony of a supposed expert
it's only eighty one words long, but I'm gonna make
listen to all of them, listen for what the rule says, but listen to for what it doesn't say. Just when I find
principle or discovery crosses the line between the experimental and demonstrable stages is difficult to define somewhere in this twilight zone the evidential force, the principle must be recognised.
I want the courts will go a long way in admitting expert testimony deduced from a well recognised scientific principle or discovery. The thing from which the data
shit is made must be sufficiently established to gain general acceptance in the particular field in which it belongs to all of the facts and fries case
we're stripped out of the ruling. That's how the law works. All it survives when court supply the fry test,
are those eighty one words everything else is raised,
including one very important circumstanced something
be widely known at the time, but that since then has been almost entirely forgotten. That fact is this between fries trial and
peel federal marshals went to the Office of Professor, William Molten Marston, an american university, and there they arrested him for fraud. It turns out
but the inventor of the lie detector test. He was a notorious liar, so did he ever give you guys? Lighted hypnotist
yes, we're experimental howls, certainly well, that was illegal,
well shit. I'm really none of US head
as far as settling disputes around the house, whose laughable that
burn Holloway Marston, the Son of William Molten Marston. He of lie. Detector fame burn is eighty eight, a retired obstetrician his.
We heard. I first met him a few years back when I got fascinated by the crazy,
truly crazy story of his father. Burne was born
nineteen thirty one. Nine years after the fry trial, little Burne was beloved and, like everything else in his father's life, he was an experiment, a test case, among other things, for his father's lie. Detector test so like who stole still used
sweater. Was it you Peter you burn? Let's give you lie to take it as a regular version, but it did happen. The fact that Marston was a father for and used to use a slight attack protested. His kids is
story, but there are other reasons to spend a little bit of time with Marston private life first, because it's completely zany and second because Martians public persona turns out to have been one big lie
Most lie meet our inventor arrested, charged by Boston Authority
with using the males to defraud Willie
Marston a professor at the American University was arrested yesterday,
held in a three thousand dollar bond most
in several months ago, constructed a machine which he declared could detect lies
The charges against Marston actually had nothing to do with a lighted sector they had to do with a sigh.
Chris Sketchy business scheme of his attorney
There also eventually dropped, but all this was
not at the same time, Martian was working on rise appeal, Marston lost that appeal. Fry lost that appeal and Marston got fired from American University
but I wasn't the end of William Molten Marston. He got another job teaching at Tufts
begin, an affair with one of his undergraduates, a young feminist, named all of burn, came from a radical family.
Her mother and her aunt Margaret Sanger, had together opened the first birth Control clinic in the United States. What became plant parenthood my friend burns
Certain olive Burne was his mother. Nor mother was sore.
See who collar irish Woody, attractive black irish black hair and pale skin freckles blue eyes,
So TAT was the beginning of the year. The maharajah twice
Yes, the Mirage Artois professor Marston, had
article ideas about sex and about generals to he had for children by two women, his wife, Elizabeth Holloway and Burns mother. All
burn burns. Own name is mash up
Holloway Marston he's got the names
each of us three parents, the grown ups of does a threesome, which is you.
Guess with something of a family secret, because at the time he could be blackened
Sid from academia from any job
for homosexuality, not dimension.
Polly, Emory them,
inclined, eventually, move terrain, New York to a big house, the place they called Cherry Orchard, Bernoulli
it was an incredibly fund way to grow up with so much love and is cookie father. He didn't know, inform you, of course, for your name. She smoked
and he, Sir Brian, better in the refining, the endless whither whiskey- and he was a big guy day- was way. Who is
I think you six feet over his weight very at one time he gets a three huh
A nation. That's re emerged during the fat Man Club in Europe, which is actually the real thing official, but he was his life, whose voice creating again
does, as you know, the variety of things that he did
whether we are always self help stem
four year when it gradually threw himself into things he did. The martian was furiously curious, always conducting experiments always looking for them.
Next big thing, but whenever anyone found out about his polyamorous family arrangements, they fired him, he lost his job at Tufts and then he lost a job at Columbia. So then he went we're all just grace jacket.
It hope to go. He went dolly when he was an awe. The gossip columns,
New York evening, Post dont Marston, who want Right Ba.
He ate today and l all day after his name in another week, because Hollywood has touchy about such things as going to be restored,
logical authority, behind all coming motion. Pictures from one big concern,
Angelus Marston, went to work for Universal studios, has a consulting psychologist, mainland horror films. Would he do as he does,
pull audiences to his lie: detector, while they watched the rushes, then he'd advice,
the studio about whether the
or to racy or to scary or not scary enough
Or not racy enough.
He did other nutty experiments to Gaza.
Austin and emotion it eighteen July. Nineteen, thirty and
it William Marston demonstrates complicated device whereby he claims he can determine and computer comparative emotions of blondes brunette and read. It says: Marston
ladies and gentlemen, hold onto your heads here comes the real voice. Have William arson
this is the Speck mom anomalous and ass a month which matches the subjects blood pressure. Now this is the kind of graft rum which caused the breathing railing is take more than normal graph round the subjects chest we are now going to,
the girls reactions to gambling the announcer watches a needle h marks into a rotating drum thing of a jig, a climate graph.
You aren't gonna grab with indicator, showing one girl reaction to game of cat. Needless mood by subjects breathing.
Here. We see our red reacts to gambling and ass. She wins Marston, emotion, finder indicates that redneck show most emotion, one
Only when I visited burners house we watch the news
we'll together headed come
the Euro is born. Watching lobby has just like a question: why did you not
I think many german belated believe worries edges shall review is show building is here.
The purpose of your shoe
twenty stories up and see which one would react them mechanism level is not very scientific. There.
I have a theory. I think people who study lying tend to be liars. Compulsive liars Marston definitely was
What are the facts about razor blade quality? That's what you let wanted to know and that's it
I! U let retained doktor, William Molten, Marston, eminent psychologist and originator of the famous lie detector to conduct scientific tests that reveal the whole truth truck drivers. Bank president man in every walk of life. These men shade, while every reaction is measure, have recourse
not knowing which Ladys, which each subject shaved, one half is faced with a dilemma laid the other, with a blade of a competitive brain. While the lie detector accurately charged the reaction in more than nine out of every ten cases, those shavers Jews, Juliet says Doktor Myra than the results of my study make it possible for me to state flatly Anne Frank. My statements with positive proof, TAT, Joel
blades far superior in every respect to competitive, blades tested Gillette play. Precision lay the F b, I appear,
They had by now had enough of Doktor, William molten Marston and decided to investigate this Gillette scheme FBI agents,
Marston to a police station in Detroit and told him to
replicate his experiments, while police officers looked on, he couldn't
only five and ten men tested in the station preferred Gillette FBI, dry,
J Edgar Hoover wrote a note to himself in his Marston file. I always thought this
Marston was a in this proves it, but if Marston
a compulsive liar. So, as olive burn short articles,
for women's magazine for years on end those articles. She quote the famed psychologist, William Marston, as if he were a stranger when, of course, they lived together
She once wrote an article about the fry case in nineteen thirty six, when fry applied for a pardon he included or article with his application. I find this a little heart, breaking free,
was thirty. Four then he'd been in prison since he was twenty two I dont know if he killed doktor Robber Brown,
I think this is a real chance it he did, but I
You know for certain that he didn't get a fair trial. He filed petition after petition and assisting.
His innocence and I've been fortunate to have pet lawyers, judge
or intelligent people when the jury
I would never have been convicted. I'm anxious
case, we opened it possible.
In order that my name could be cleared. The court's deny this petition tears
here in nineteen thirty, eight Marston published a book called lie detector test and gave a copy to burn inscribing it for Burn Marston to help him always tell the truth. With love from daddy, the next
here, for I was purled he'd served more than eighteen years in prison on his release still
determined to prove his innocence. He renewed his petition for a pardon
here's my freedom from prison. I have married and have a fine wife. He bitterly
and again and again, even applying for a presidential pardon. I gotta.
Under what a guilty men have kept on pressing the case years after his release boss.
People under an impression that, because a person has been indicted, tried and sentenced, they are guilty
They do not start to realize the fact that an
three conditions named above are Schumann.
and that no Schuman decision is infallible and innocent
charge against me. I have
reason to believe that the courts of the District of Columbia thought so, after all,
This is Washington in the question
of the race plays an important part, even
the court's James.
Died in nineteen fifty six, his name was never cleared. Instead, it lived on as the name of a test of evidence.
Fries name also became a verb to be fried, is to have your expert witnesses. Testimony deemed inadmissible, Martians name, isn't a verb. You don't get Marston. If you take a lie, detector
instead, Marchioness hardly remembered for the lighted actor test is remembered, for
Different invention of is called on to you
about to get weird.
Nineteen, forty one Marston, his wife, Elizabeth Holloway, and, as other
followed burn created.
I'm a book superior, a wonder, woman, the best known feminist icon of all time. She by
for women's rights. She's in fact
based on Margarets anger, founder of plant parenthood, a game.
Ass the evidence of this entire crazy story years ago in an archive, and I had to write a book about it, scald the secret history of wonder. Woman is a story about feminism
It is also a story by evidence and truth, one woman fights for justice.
I therefore arms she wears to mental bracelets that can stop bullets. They looked just like the ones olive burn used to wear and, of course,
she has her own lie. Detector Marston once wrote a wonder woman story about the free trial. I am
pretty sure none of one woman's readers recognised illusion. But in this particular story, Marston imagines a court.
Seen in which one woman tries to get a judge to accept as evidence the results of
derivation she's conducted using her golden lasso of truth.
I understand you examine this, defend him with your remark of old amazonian. Last so
its highly irregular I'd like to hear your finding Sally,
objection sustain ok,
and one woman masses, the defendant, Priscilla, rich and rags, or to the witness, stand and gets her to confess. I guess
as she really is. The supervillain known as the cheetah, after which the odd grateful in besotted judge, shakes wonder woman's hand
Your advice was invaluable. Wonder woman. I wish you'd give me further help me,
in Rio the story of the free trial. The way he'd wanted it to come out with himself.
As the hero and Judge Mccoy
worshipping him, but a nineteen. Forty four
when Marston finally realised this triumph with wonder woman he got really sick here were apparently was polio,
and this should coincide with the success of wonder why he was.
Finally, my here, some time
A miser support all these people and watch something be successful. Your watch
Be successful, man has a kind of a tragic life means because wonder woman has endured outside of the last archive very little last James FRY is all but forgotten, except for his last name, a test of truth, but injustice, injustice indoors, and if you want to fight it here,
Meta, lasso of truth or a lie detector, but you do need knowledge and evidence. Even the kind of evidence will try to find in the next episode of the last archive the evidence of the invisible
The last archive is produced by Sophie Crane, Mckibben and Ben Native having our editors, Julia, Barton and our executive produced.
Is Milo Bell.
Using embryos are engineer, factually
by Amy gains regional music.
I'm a thighs bossy and John Evans who still lagging symphony. Many resounded,
so from Harrington Junior and the sergeant at foundation. Our foolproof players are
although Adamson Daniel Burger Jones, Jesse hints John comes back a Louis and Maurice Manual parent, the last archives brought to buy Pushkin industries.
Special thanks to rain. We captured in the American Repertory Theatre
Emily showman at Harvard law. School Alex sounds in at the bridge, sound and stage, and it Pushkin together. Fain, my cane a poorly make Liore Emily Rustic Maggie Taylor and Jacob iceberg. A research assistants are Michelle,
now the Oldham Henrietta Riley, Oliver Riskin cuts and Emily Spectre, particulars
thanks to the national archives, Anna Sophia Psmith collection, had Smith College, I'm Jill Lepore.
Transcript generated on 2020-05-22.