The presenting sponsor of rise is zip. Recruiter, zip recruiter the smartest way to hire I Rachel Hollis and I've built a multi million dollar media company with a high school diploma and the free information I found on the internet in the fifteen years that I've been building and scaling my company, I have become deeply passionate about helping other entrepreneurs to do the same so each week I'll be sharing tangible and tactical advice and inspiring interviews with the same intention. Bees are the tools to change your life and your business. This is the rise podcast when this broadcast airs. It will be the day, though your first

is out in the world. How does it feel like Tommy the things It feel amazing, good. The lass I felt like. The three months ago I was like waking up in the middle of the night. Like does it suck? You know him and then had to work to foot like what am I afraid of, and then finally I got your place of like you know, I'm just so it evidently out and so excited people are Rita. Unexcited here were heads. What does and what like unjust, excited, yellow and take. Yeah and by the way it's so normalize creator, especially I mean as an author, no matter how books. You write, you saw our like you vastly between. I think this is pretty good. And oh, my gosh is total garbage without was a and it's been that's the laughing if such a soul process for some rye, like it you and a couple of editors and like

Sammy Mamma? I mean it. You know in the amendment Thank you with these words. For so long and now it's getting a very public sphere. The address those like shocking, but also like by like by the last week of I've, been waiting for it to be our let's just got lesson the guy's yeah, I'm ready and I'm like so happy in the world and others I. This was a proud of it. So what's it about so, the book is about. Ok, so you This could even France for song. I wanted to write a book for I, just as people like I said, team rang like Alan, are out of, and we were happy hour like probably five years ago, you're thought you were looking at me like what what why don't you write like? Don't?

I think realizing, I'm not sure I had to say- and I wanted to say I just wanted to write a word which is not the best place arrive from. And then I went through the season of coming, out of leaving everything I sort of new to pursue something different of a face. So my fear that had an what many fine Wanna write. That story was realizing actually how universal it was so going through this experience I don't wanna be Judy, who I am because that will disrupt too many people around me. And for people who don't know your story any down the Pica several times for people who don't know you what what was disrupted about, where you are young so I was a group in a church. And then I was a pastor mega church and then I discovered more by my own sexuality, the remaining mine now wife, who was then my best friend

he's already that ends in it. Right. Coming out, there was not a place where it's ok to be gay. And not only that specific place, but the culture. I grew up in a the church, culture, the church scene, and when you work at church, it's not just your job right. It's your friend, We are family, it's your networks, like I remember thinking. If I don't work here, can I work at that? I can't work at a christian college. I used to work out and if I can't work there forget the other fishing days ago, two of my whole network and world, deeper than that. My identity was really tied to believing certain things, and going to church on Sunday and no the guy had a plan, and it was a specific plan and I was going to step outside of that and so like layers on my ears of disrupting probably restructure in my life to the boy and sir, that's part of me

what I wanted to write, because none of them was Easy Ryan and I This life now that I am grateful for it never have imagined life could be this good in my mind, gymnast this family were creating am, but it was so hard and so hard to get there and yeah and it fell. It felt singular like it felt, like I'm Megatrend Pastor who came out and an disrupted my whole life, and that is very specific and at the same time I do got messages like when we came out publicly from people who had gone divorce from people were done pregnant before their married people,

given the church and started realizing this common narrative, and I was like, while that is so, I mean so much to me what they're saying from a different story, and I'm not gonna start to realize it. Only ashes is more universal truths happening here, like more people should be allowed to have to face this. This reality in and be true they feel like there. They need absolutely. I am what I was just thinking of those who are speaking about that is, like her, crazy that I think when, when I speak, table reuse because people who didn't grow up in the church the way that we did, they can't even understand what we saying they're like. You, you told people there who were gay- and you were ostracised on everyone Google and had all like they care it is. I give you didn't sort of growth is part of this culture. It doesn't make sense that these

things happen or even what you're saying like? Oh, you got pregnant before you were married, or you did me things when the foundation of the christian faith is love it thought that that was Jesus. That was the whole damn was like one. Your neighbour as you yourself, this is our call to arms. This is what we do. This is what were here, in terms of inclusion and standing beside at each other and all these things, and it's so wilds people who are not inside of it, because a dull understands this sort of dogma of light, we loved you. You are favorite person, you are a leader and we thought the world of you on Tuesday. And by Wednesday you told us about the usual something about yourself that change the way

we need every single part of you yeah an end it. You know, obviously, that something that happened inside of fate like the religious world, but I also feel that something that has happened that that's it gone to happen. Is it because the social media, or because of politics or whatever, that we sort of started this thing? Were you find out one thing about a person and your time like not nonaligned you, I hate you but I'll, never being community with you again like this one piece of you now has defined. All of you here last a lot of room for like pollution and changed at us. Fundamental to being human that's what the reasons like the first chapter in the book is just about all the times I messed up and have

because I'm writing a book about like beat, you really are and evolve in, and they say they did, but that's it that's after messing up so many times and that's before messing up again into like just to be clear, like that's the evolutionary, a road that we get to gone and there have been paid Well, who invited me in about space in a way that allows me to to find out more of even who I am and, and so passionate about inviting people on that same journey, because, while critique is so important- and there are a lot of systems and structures that need we could, I think it has arrived at at the cost of of inviting people into an evolutionary process railway. What do you think it looks site for listening there's a who maybe I'm and thought about this before. But why do you think it looks? I too in community with people who are not like you. You know we talk about this, a law at rise com, friends. I think it's a core value that both of us hold, but

this idea of being and God we need it now more than ever in our world of like how'd, you being community in an earnest, humble honest way, with people who totally different, not just perspectives but like day believe totally differently than you, and I'm always fascinated by this idea that people feel threatened by someone else's beliefs because of your beliefs. In your faith, in your politics in yourself are strong and true, then someone Believing differently should not even be able to touch that its effect you at all, so do you the advice for how to being community with people who have opposing viewpoints yeah more feel like. Sometimes we think that that is external work that's all internal work settle so

I. I don't know this person. You know roused me this, where there is a risk that this area- and you think that's like an extra hoping in that more often than not that's an internal thing right so, like you said, if you have, if your identity fills fragile if you feel like, I think I'm good, but I dont know if I am so when hitting on that exact pain point is, is going to shatter it right. So that's that's not going to be something that you can interact and then you're going to have to you're going to have beat them back with the same energy, because now you're at your rating against that idea, because I hit that pain point right, like with, with being a person of faith right who, who is also married to a woman. I had get comfortable with that, because, even though I like love Sammy and

in view of all these things. I had these years and years and years of like that, Inter analyze, message that that was wrong, and so I had to undo that to get completely comfortable with myself and before I was I go off every time I was invited to and Now- and we talk about this at the weekend- I'm not in a place of defending myself. So I get me it is like how do you? How do you defend yourself as a Christian? there's some is gay and I just said oh, I know and only thought re weighting, the known might explain this army like shot someone down Byron Katy, has this co. I like accorded at ten thousand times on this type ass. She says defence is the first act of war. So with a second, you begin to defend herself,

actions are who you are to some one else. You are inviting them to get into conflict with you, your inviting them to disagree and they're. So, like it's the most bald bad ass thing, you can do to good account. Now I don't remember and then some like, I think, you're wrong and, like ok, ok, Gregor, I think my my this you know you said earlier like when you're talking about creating face like Yes, I love your neighbour as yourself right, which is. Is it such a powerful thing to me, because it implies that you love yourself, because I think fundamentally we do three people the way we treat this were all I needed some guy that lets unpack. That now want to think about you, that's so, guy there. Like the thing that makes us most mad when we, when I

I myself being super Jpg, now. I am feeling some February by myself when I find stop pointing out every flaw of like. Why does Sammy do this? Why is this my mom's annoying that personal issue? Is, I don't like an outfit like and I'm like? Okay, What's going on re entering Europe, to give out what you feel yeah so easy you feel the need at every turn, to defend as hard as you can see. Your stance, your with all these things, is that coming because you're not sure it's true for you or right, because you want to make it true for someone else and that that will look very different from a position. Sampling also came from like an action The plan for somebody who here is that and really like, sits in it and knows that they need to make change in that area. It feels like the thing. You want most for yourself in life.

Would be then to practice, giving that two other peoples so hard right. So, how to think of an example of em. You said outfit so like. Let's say that you are super critical about yourself and the way that you love your constantly, and you know you got that negative self talk playing in the back of your mind, of all the ways that you don't measure up physically and whenever, and so is the opposite of that. Every time you see anybody in your mind, your constantly, like my god. We're gonna be like I love that she made such a bull choice did not work, like how I love their hair, is wild, like that, you train goes so far in the other direction to get people even if it is only in our own minds that thing that you wish that you that freedom that you wish you could experience, because maybe there's something and giving it to them that you should have softened that and bear

you're that you have a round yourselves. That kind of hold you imprisoned in that way. I think that's completely true and I think you get it's true from the ways in which she could take yourself and then for for people who are most like you, I could say they bother. You are right he'll have ways of that person, and then you, like they're, like you God at yet if you are looking for something to compliment your diet and lifestyle and honestly, I feel like we kind of all are right were always trying to figure out which products or things will help us to feel better, will help us to function better if you're, one of those people like I am you should check out Sir Karas Clean Boutique, they have all sorts of things to compliment your help.

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Slash rise to get twenty percent off your first order, sankara dot com, slash rise, but I'm not sure I think, if you can find something like what's ok this I find it. Protecting someone so immediately I might go back, and this is all internal right and I go back find something frightening. We have another person say it believe it on air and if you create that pattern- and you can start to do it with the south like Oh I'm, not but, okay, you know what now go back, find something which is Ben. We were just talking about this today. The gift of of being a lesbian is, I think, they're loving another woman, I ran away like allowed me to love my own womanhood, while in a different way and in such a gift.

I think you're having exactly right. You can find ways to break that down when it comes to other people that will start to translate into your own. Your own experience so good but one of the things that I think is so unique avow when used. When you re in your message on this topic, is that most people are like just jump. Just go just do the thing you know whatever it's gonna be great and Europe you are like yes, go jump and live and be brave and be ball, and it's probably going to suck the unemployed. Common called worth that, like now, it's probably gonna be awful, is probably to be as bad as you think it is. Even worse, but it will be worth it. So we you explain that concept exactly like a lot of people who are trying to motivate others come from that angle I mean- and this is something you talk about right, like life, his heart and so on. We when we impact that it is so high,

to live a life that is simply trying to it, he's the opinions and expectations of the people around here it is hard to be in the closet. It is hard to come out of the closet like it will be hard, You just get a look at your life and decide which hard is gonna, be worth it. One of them is gonna. Leave you feeling my free and hall and one I'm going to leave you feeling trap, but then I was extremely hard like there's not away. That's like! Oh you can. This is the exact way to have this Congress asian and no one will ever resent you. This is the way to have And no one will ever looked down on you known whatever question your goodness. No one will ever know that's real yeah. It's hard but one heart is just it's going to be more worth it right and even to see your point earlier of. How do we be in relationships with people who are different from us or Evan? I do like the recipe and inclusion

Chinese and and people always say when I say what are you nervous about, I say I don't want to say the wrong thing and I was like cool, so you will yeah. Let's just start there let us be opened at our reality, Jack. It's gonna be like. If you want the goods that they might have. You want the best conversation that we want the best experiences. If you want to feel free, you have you have to know it's gonna, be tat. You have turned out to be hard to get their sower. I was Dana. I didn't you know the next, but comes out september- and I had to do a webinar for the cells team cause. I had you done one for what the book was supposed to be rewritten the spokesman on my side to do this whole new thing in the world that we're living at night- and I am also walking through like trying to talk about this book- that I wrote my grief- While in the midst of getting a divorce and try and answer questions intelligently and very

coordinated the ends. And there were a lot of questions about the. Climate that were an answer. What is my stance on? life's matter and one, and that is the very first thing that I said is I'm gonna get this wrong. I'm gonna say that's wrong. I think that the worst thing that I can do with my platform in my position is not speak about because I'm worried about saying the wrong thing so I'm gonna move forward earnestly and with a good with the best of intentions and also completely open to the feedback from my community about when I do get it wrong and how I can in that letter and how I can try to keep showing up in this way, because I think, That is a lot of questions were from white people who were asking how

I as white person. I keep coming back to one this belief. Then, if you really want to learn about this conversation, if you wanna talk about diversity and inclusion, and what this world needs to look like, you need to get that lesson from the incredible lack teachers buck speakers black offers. If you, if your company, that really true is now in this package about but beans sort of brush, very quickly that she does this and what she does is there's no one else to go. To avoid being says, it's incredible. I wanna keep elevating those voices, but at the same time I have to keep showing up and keep having on and be willing to get it wrong and that really hard thing in the climate that we live in and social media, because everybody is so level twenty two out of

and right there's nothing. It feels like that you can put out in the world that people aren't ready to debate, even for you, for my friends for all of our friends who are black. Like even they're getting push back of, not saying things way and there's almost this lake it, whether it's this conversation mother I'll gb whether forward However, it is that you as listeners believe in that its psycho like the forces of evil, one scare us away from being in conversation so much that they're gonna punch you in the face every single time that even try his enemy. Sounds like that. We ve gone to this place where now people are afraid like you and I were like we're, not even going on social because it is actually crap pile did. How does it look? What does that feel like you? Do you feel like with a platform, you have that you do or to yourself? Do you

dear community to keep showing up and keep having the conversation or is it sort of this delicate balance of I'm gonna, keep having conversation when I want to, and also there are times were for my own spirit. I can't show up in this way and keep debating yeah, I mean social media is so beautiful, so wonderful, so gorgeous has created so many things and also its its comes us up a very real shot aside and in a big part of it is it has created, ultra critiques, so strong, specifically around issued like things like race or other particular age, with anything that that culture so strong that it has allowed. I think it has allowed people to confuse their critique of someone else with the actual work, so in a nice gets such short,

selling from this actual at you, and I have had endless conversations. I got endless U I abandoned all men and we will die and dumb question view are so gray saw me as very had a lot of talks about this and we are actual France So we go out of a conversation about raise how to run adds having kids. What I'm gone Who do you have the attic ain't that, because we have this, we have this relationship right, we're friends and so that it so disarming the conversation and you would approach like you and I would never approach an actual person. I I know the way I am. RO, the Heavens and socially. Why I see the approach and social media in an I ate. My senses in my mind,

My desire to understand like humanity, in what we're doing my senses, that there are a lot of people who feel like they don't know what to do. They feel helpless like they see what being there, their learning more and they don't have a place to put their feet to the ground, and so there all this, like energy, like I Haven is happening, I don't want to do. I feel helpless, I'm going to go off on so indeed the right, and so I think we in it's not critique as bad like we again when we need people to say, hey that, couldn't I'd better, hey, that's hey here's, why I know want support the saying is why I'm gonna go to

and said among people at all. This is is good work, but it has gone to a point. I think you're right words been absent, of realizing that human beings are capable of evolution and are we pushing people towards abolition or are we just trying to like you know my I had a teacher ones. Tell me in high school traumatize me for there s my life, because I still number and I'm thirty four she was like you know the nail and sticks out get hammered down right now. Is that advertising, but that's feel a little bit right like I would like someone who is who is honestly asking question I'll, never deny them the conversation by it for an answer. I hope. Even in my myself, I told the story in the book about when I was in high school and someone. My friend was gay and was out as like a fourteen year old, and he asked me to stop saying that so gay, because I said that all the time like your shoes

and it's very offensive to him, and I said I don't mean it like that, stopping so gay about it is what I said like I'd eyes. I said that yeah I did that yeah, here, I am allowed to have this platform and into speak on these things. And so, if that's true about me again? People need to get very clear on what's true about them and, if that's true about me than MIKE everyone's it. Everyone invited her to the process of evolution.

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Ok, so fundamentally, that is my truth. That is why I am but I ve evolved and have grown as a woman. So, even though things that I wrote not book have changed as I'm writing this new thing and There's a very weird thing that happens: words like oh no, but you you said this thing yeah. I said what the best that I knew at the time that knew it, but the idea that we should hold people into they showed up as or even I mean, if you think, about this idea of coming out and how the how strongly people freaked out about that with you, even that was sort of, denying your evolution of saying no now, but you told us that you heard of boy ran right, yeah another than theirs anger of like this is who you presented yourself to be almost cycle, that there are some like magic in

not magic that there's something to be admired in your decision, person that you always were and that people use the the term like you, ve changed. They say that as a negative, they use that to shame or someone like. Oh, you can change like yeah. Thank God, thank God. I've changed like in its so like ever with. I know I read this button. Listen, that I'm mailing two year because read it, but it's one hundred said an integral part of the we call them. We lock them in all along people are cheering. Yes. Now do those to terms lessons. I go to college and then we enter some point of adulthood where, instead of people us on they're all screaming now you now you're here never change rights like never change again

and then you have the sphere as creators or as artist or anything. But what if I create something in it- and I think differently about it in a few years back like I think, which keeps so many people start but like me, and some of the best stuff has come from people's like evolutions, that we have got to watch the rebels random untamed yap. Like that's a very different book from like love, love warrior, yeah like it's, it's ryan and we're all like honour to get to read that and to see that evolution right and we deny ourselves so much of that when we say like as a as a pastor like when I was up. That's my I mean weekly, I would say things that now I mean does mice and crawl right ye will all advise all about a year and an there's first

sure like writing this book, I know there's seven here and I'm going to go in five years yeah. But I just Fraid of Google, and I I hope, that's true, because if every single thing I think to twenty twenty is true in twenty five, I'm not doing it exactly right so well I tend to think of that of like, however, someone said it consumes you for the first time is their perception of you. And not when you change that its very upsetting to someone who is like I thought you were only this thing. It's like people who their perception of me when they first started following me, was like I'm a man which I am its massive increase Believe me, I've somebody can it's it's a massive power of who I am, but it's not all of who I am and so on

talk about being an entrepreneur or doing things that are different. Then that keys people give You know flustered at the very least, a really upset at the most. Is that what you said you were mom, but now you're talking about ambition and moms, can't be ambitious and did so. It's like yours stepping outside of what it is that they have come to know you as, and I think that you know, much as your talking about in the book this journey of coming out and what it means to live your freedom there's also, I think, an incredible freedom that I continue here to learn and reach for and live in two that win can't be multi faceted that we can be many things that you can be the best man ever and also you know the greatest entrepreneur. Ceo

The world has ever known. You can hold both those things and also you can be superseded gardening and all you could be a runner and also that right you know, for the longest time it was like this vicious we're on fine, who we all right here and you can have a few kind of ancillary characteristics that fit into societies perception of what that is. But what I think I have discovered more and more that freedom is to me is that I get to be all of those things And if I don't care, if you understand them my view gaining the world outside of myself, I don't care if you like, every single piece of me so long as I get to live authentically yeah an island? I would say not only that you can't be lots of living things. You are you are right in you are, and we we try to some down or shift them or make them. You know appeal,

to people, but we already are right. That's that the term intersection value it like. I a woman and I'm a person of color and I'm gay and big brand. You now brought him a runner him. I have a dog and I'm married an- and I you know all these things like you. You are in One of the reasons with- and I don't even mean to just sit on social media cuz- I actually really like it. I think it has incredible power, but I think when we have tried to figure out like what's my bio, what's my what was my look like what is my tries to put us into this, like ok, my soul media presence, and mostly this right. And because I need it needs to be clear, like the message needs to be his founder. Whatever all these things and I take away carry that element into our regular live to be like war. My pursue does this, and yet

I have I'm gonna get. You ve had a very strict lately with Ike data. We take it off the APS off our phone. And because you don't realize how many other voices, besides your and the people who are actually working through life with you, how many other voices are in your head and you have to tell you you have to do. Is I'm so? so many things, and maybe they can often announcing an end. That's ok, yeah! That's not my reality. What and I think I am so much more productive, I'm so much more creative, I'm so much more calm at peace centred. All of that, when I'm not spending more time consuming other people's creation, I think that Social is, like you said There are so many beautiful things that it can exist for and if your business sooner entrepreneur, author, influenced or whatever it is that you're trying to do in your business,

Social is undoubtedly the greatest way on the planet to do those things, because it's free, and you can figure it out and you can create community like that. Incredibly powerful but the I don't know a lot of people who have figured out how to navigate create in that way, without consuming any of it, we ve been and for very long time. We invented collaborators for a very long time. Last year, you guys are familiar and beans in her Sammy are like my two main collaborators. On basically sleeping, I do or create rise, the brainchild of the three of Us Rice Conference as a kind of everything up evolved from there and we continue.

Should collaborate. You know if you ve been a part of our company Earthward for ever gonna beans. Are you ve always seen beans, and though we have a couple of collaboration coming after really excited about that? A joint vision tell people about here. So the earth is the rise at which comes out in our guests. You know, so we all have heard us talk a bit about the rise up if you're not familiar that follow at Let's rise Dat Co. All the information is there it was our intention to bring the experience of going to one of arise, conferences like into your phone, so it all about, and you know, focus and health and your minds an positivity enjoy and my great habits and all these things so beans, you tell them what you ve created as part, one of your one of our coaches, for the rise up. We you tell us,

in conclusion: I can you call them instructors. Maybe I don't know what we call back. I can eat anything. On the rise up. If you want, if you're like wow, what a voice It is a fact Otherwise the log reproduce them meditations them. Visualization ends some jokes here are your morning off. That is why I am continuing and contributing to the part of health that says you dont smile, you're gonna have a bad day, so you can listen to me talk and get you ready like just send yourself in ready to like movie or body. I love me I'm in I guess I heard about one remembers agency did, and I said earlier I think, would so fine about their eyes. The rise app is. That feeling were doing it I mean are our tagline is let's be different,

We're doing we're looking at how for looking at mindset, we're looking at all these things in a totally different way, including even the way that you're bringing in meditation with like humor- and you really really calls- are excited for guys to experience using next month and all of Us Cresson, Brad and Dave and trends in like a bunch of new p, that you haven't met, yap that you're in love can be awesome and let's talk about the big, big bang which is there any other listenin to abide cast me ass, a thing to abide, Catherine now, what's our what's come in I'm in a pass at all, if you like, Comcast arising, mediocre one, we are as in samian I M coming out upon cast on the whole, Pike S network and it is called everyday? Lesbian faith? Is so badly,

started in current tab like started as an instagram. Why have you never even do like every day. I am just everyday lesbian, suddenly, many people about everyday things. Can you listened to everyday lesbians? Lesbian, yes, either for everyone ever since five year in everyday person, the applicant in areas where it where it sits very soon, reintegrate, like music movies, he's gonna, explain, take dogs to me great, I'm gonna go out of them and will be for the first he's only talking about the Bergen and sort of like part of our saurian, just honestly, just ridiculous to kill right, and there is also a great is what is called the song themes! Rather, he wrote and performance, now we are I'm jealous cause, it's really bad

No, are you can ask me to be a guest on the ship sure you're gonna be. I met my invitation. Myron got my leg we'll calendar and by it. But when I know it's coming right, there are different, there's different segments, yeah right, and so you you are perfect for one of them was able to escape. Is it people who love every day, like people love, lesbians, yeah, ok, let's mainframe, and then there is this lesbians level in the end,

yeah, we're very. We get celebrity less media. That is one of the greatest things with every concept that I'm so are. We don't have any fear listening this hurrying away. When you hear the s gosh, I was literally you ass, our than I wake up and down and make that happen. I felt like I was just work our way up, so hey guys, a clear lesson in today's beans were ok, we call her beans, but her actual given name is bright therein. Her book comes out to day you well worth that you can get it anywhere. Books are sold and if you ve been to rise conference before it listen to being in the palm before. If you follow her, I'm gonna straight up. Ask you to go by this book because you are supporting woman that we all know and love and the best way that you can see for her right now. I say thank you for all the ways that she should up for us as the community is to spend I dont through the priceless

Do you know the price your book on anyone who, like eight nine and I spent eighteen bucks, liberating bucks, spend it if you don't grab it? mere local library and read it there without any cost. But were view air either way. I'm really proud of you only really really proud of you, and this is something you talked about for a really long time. It feels so cool, that were here and then it's coming out and they know it's fell. Weird for you to be really seen this book in this town period. I know I like I think about this so often with so many women that I know, but I think about that story of Queen Stir- and you know maybe You have been brought to this place for such a time as disease, and it's gonna help a lot of people. Fella help alot of people to find the courage to live their truth, even if living their truth comes at a cost. It's worth it in or to be free, so so proud of you and I care way for people to read it and love on you. Let's use social media entered his love on me

The data were gave your excited to listen, abandon Sammy and their new pod cast everyday lesbians. And of course you are, I'm go head over to our show notes and you can subscribe today. You'll see a little linked just over there. He had the subscribed button, and then you have to new best friends that you will love as much as I do things for common on the show. I'm gonna get him out. You universe, you didn't let it go.