Due to the graphic nature of this killers crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode include discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen early. Ninety. Ninety nine young, Laura Full Big, was a happy healthy, little girl, the apple of her father, sigh Craig and Kathleen full Big treasured there. Better, especially because she was the only one of their for children who was still alive, Laura, was too young to know it, but from night and eighty nine. Ninety. Ninety three, all three of her older, siblings, Caleb, Patrick and Sarah, had died, tragic, untimely death. Unfortunately, for Laura she could not avoid suffering the same fate as her siblings. She, too would soon can be found dead in the middle of the night, discovered by

Mother Kathleen. But this time the pool These could not ignore the signs that the full big babies deaths warrant, caused by medical issues. They were murdered. The number one suspect from the beginning was Kathleen Full Big, the children Oh mother, when she was on their radar, the noose tightened around Kathleen while she struggle to prove her own innocence. What she didn't know was that it would be her own words confess to a diary that would come Victor hi, I'm Gregg pulsing, and this is serial killers. Today, we're going to continue a deep dive into the life and a tortoise australian serial killer, Kathleen Full Big, whose smothered off

for of her own children to death. I'm here with my co host Vanessa Richardson high everyone we like to ask a quick fix Would you leave a five star review of serial killers on your favorite podcast directory? It seems so simple, but it really helps us out and don't forget to subscribe to your there, because a new episode comes out every Monday. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at park asked and on Twitter, at par, cast network or in our website park, asked dot com Kathleen folbigg was active between one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine and one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine in new whales, Australia. All of her victims were her own babies. Smothered in their beds, sheepskins

It is one of the worst serial killers and australian history, not because of the violence of the crimes, but because all of the victims were her own children in part one. We discussed Kathleen full bigs, tragic, past and murderous beginnings. She was raised by foster parents after her he's. A father murdered her mother. Perhaps she brought some of that lingering trauma into her marriage with Craig full Big, where Kathleen struggled to cope with the stresses of motherhood. Time Kathleen began to be overwhelmed. Another child ended up dead in part to we'll take a closer look at the death of full bigs. Last child. Laura and how her demise unravelled. The web of lies Kathleen had woven around herself, eventually leading to her arrest and conviction. Any seven and thirty two respectively, Craig and Kathleen Full Big had already face their fair share of

Judy by nineteen ninety for their first three children, Caleb, Patrick and Sarah had all mysteriously perished in their sleep before the age of one, but phobic babies deaths were attributed to sudden infant death syndrome. The medical communities catch all diagnosis for unexplained contests or deaths that occurred during sleep? One Sid's baby was considered unlucky. Three and one family made the full bigs. Perhaps the least fortunate couple in Australia ACT. Sarah death, the full bigs, debated the possibility of having a fourth child for several years and sought com. Quotations from Sid specialists. Craig did not experience the grief of another child death, but Kathleen wanted a baby if just approved herself or the world that she too could be a good mother, or at least that's what she told herself

Twenty nine year old, Kathleen wrote in her diary on November thirteenth nineteen. Ninety six about this desire quote. His family, so important to me. Craig has the knowledge, and stability and love from siblings and parents, even if he chooses to ignore them me. I have no one, but him it seems to affect me. So why should it matter it shouldn't end quote: this confusion about her desire for children, could be another symptom that Kathleen was suffering from reactive attachment disorder and ability to form normal, loving relationships as a result of her early childhood trauma she's gonna take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note that It is not a licence psychologist or a psychiatrist, but she has done lot of research for the show adults with rad, often experience a push, pull in their relationships, a desire for closeness countered by

desire to be distant and self reliant they can be. Impulsive has Kathleen often seem to be ever she suddenly decided. It was time to have another baby rad affected adults yearn for love, but find it difficult to return that affection. They may experience periods of care, giving an intimacy, but also times of jealousy and possessiveness, with Caleb, Patrick and Sarah, Craig Full Big had observed both attitudes in his wife. At times, Kathleen could be very carrying a nurturing at others she seemed to snap at the slightest provocation. A research synthesis by several experts and reactive attachment disorder found children separated from their parents and raised and foster care experience, higher rates of red and post traumatic stress than the wider population. In addition, they found that foster children

often reach adulthood with a lower level or quality of education than their peers, as Kathleen Full Big had after dropping out of school at fifteen, because educational level factors heavily into financial success and independence. Adults like Kathleen Mayfield, trapped in bad jobs or relationships with no way to get to a better place. It is possible that Kathleen Full Big felt stuck in Iraq. Your marriage with Craig by her lack of career prospects and relative isolation in a small australian suburb. In such circumstances, it not hard to see how she might have latched onto the idea of having family a baby to idolize her to depend on her to love her unconditionally ass. Her own parents Craig, did not share in whatever DR prompted Kathleen to one another baby. He was firmly against the idea. They tried

how many times already he couldn't face that kind of pain. Again, Kathleen worked on Craig for a long time, appealing to his deep desire to be a father Kathleen later remembered that she thought Craig quote really deserves to be a father he's a natural one. It would give him peace and make him truly happy if he was a dad end quote Kathleen assured Craig about this baby wooden die. They were older, wiser, more patient, now better prepared for parenthood. Craig was confused with this reasoning. What did maturity have to do with preventing sets? It? Wasn't till later that he recalled that conversation with dread. Perhaps it had everything to do with their children staff if they hadn't actually died of, since Craig consulted Doktor Christopher Seton at this

Sidney Children's hospital, who assured him that their past tragedies were unfortunate but didn't point to any medical pattern that would affect a new child, leading up to or as birth. Kathleen diary entries grew darker and darker on June eleventh ninety. Ninety seven, she wrote the cryptic confession quote Heaven help the day my memory surface, and I recall that will be the data lock me up and throw away the key, something I'm sure will happen. One day. End quote Kathleen, never outright admitted to murdering her children, but she alluded to her possibility and guilt in their deaths enough to be suspicious. The only thing absolutely clear from her journals is that Kathleen Full Big should now be taken at her word, she's an unreliable narrator even of her own memories. Finally, the full bigs decided to try once more and care

queen gave birth to Laura Elizabeth full bag. On August seventh, one thousand nine hundred and ninety seven Laura was a healthy baby and both of her parents obsessively watched her for signs of Sids Laura was a better sleeper than a siblings and a happier baby than a sister. A week after Laura's birth, the full bigs took her to the hospital to be thoroughly tested for illnesses and birth defects and define We learn CPR Laura was sent home with advanced sleep, monitor similar to Sarah's, and the little family was confident that this time nothing would go wrong. The clinical nurse present for the tests noticed the difference between lean who frequently went out to smoke and seemed detached from the baby and Craig who nervous wreck throughout the process, despite the nurses,

observations, otherwise Kathleen confessed her diary that she did feel differently towards Laura than she had felt with all her other children. She wrote quote scary, feelings, I realized I actually love her and abundant with her. Maternal instinct is whether I now know. I never had it with the others. End quote it. Seems Kathleen oscillated between feelings of intense love for her children. Anger and resentment towards them. A study by free men and jests neck at the National Institute of Health found that manic mothers tend to kill their children without much planning or for thought and the event is often precipitated by periods of high stress if the child persistently cries or misbehaves on the day of the attack, the stress may tip and emotionally manic mother over into Phil aside, even in the general population

seventy per cent of mothers with colleagues. Children admit to having aggressive thoughts towards their kids, despite capital, his new found maternal instinct trouble was brewing. Craig was at work all day, leaving Kathleen alone with the baby, and the sleep monitor she hated so much the device downloaded a log of its usage to the families, computer and Craig notice that Kathleen rarely plug the monitoring while she was home alone, Laura Kathleen spent more time away from the house at the gym or with her friends in order to distance himself from Craigs worrying over Laura, the cracks were once again beginning to show in their relationship It is possible that Kathleen was suffering from post natal depression during this time, she'd show

symptoms of the disordered during her other students of motherhood and often expressed frustration and defeat at caring for Laura that fell outside the regular levels expected of new parents. Her irritation with baby Laura, took Craig Back Craigs Unfailing ability to sleep through Laura's cries, put stress on the marriage driving edge between him and Kathleen, who felt he wasn't taking her anxiety seriously. On September twentieth, T ninety seven Kathleen row, in her diary. Quote mg being very stressed, because I can't depend on Craig for any real support or help. He doesn't hear Laura or the alarms. How dare he complained to me about lack of sleep and quote? Craig too was troubled. He drunkenly admitted to clean one night, but he was unhappy at home and constantly worried about Laura on November, ninth nineteen. Ninety seven Kathleen wrote Quote Craig: has a morbid

You're about Laura. He well No there's nothing wrong with her, nothing out of the ordinary, because it was me not them end quote: she was hopeful that lower would survive since you, Such an easy baby to care, for quote, think I handle profits fits of crying better than I did. But Sarah with Sarah. All I wanted was heard a shut up, and one day she did end quote Craig. Never read these diary entries until the criminal investigation of Kathleen was under way, perhaps if he had things might have it up differently. These apparent admissions of guilt certainly sound damning during full bigs, later trial. Her defence team tried to protest that the contents of her diary were really the outpouring of a mind stressed by loss and worry, and the egg nations of parenting, Catherine He had shown signs of post partum depression before it's possible that Sir

of her journaling was the result of such an illness, but only Kathleen full Big can know for sure December thirty, first, nineteen, ninety seven Kathleen and Craig were looking forward to Laura's first birthday, Laura was now the folded longest surviving child Kathleen Road of the child. That quote she's a fairly good natured baby. Thank goodness, it will save her from the fate of her siblings. I think she was warned They'll Craig was not reading Kathleen diary at this time. He was worried about her caring for Laura. He was concerned that Kathleen didn't take the risk of Sid's seriously so he wrote a letter to the sleep clinic where law had been checked out as an infant, voicing his worries about his wife. He wrote quote strangely, I feel Kathleen, finds the monitor, tedious and frustrating and would probably right, they're not use it at all. Millions

lasting, Laura survival to fate. You would think that, after all, she has been through as a mother, she of all people would be more diligent with the money during I'm sorry, if I sound paranoid, but with every passing day, I fall that much farther in love with this child and truly could not bear her not being a part of my life. Craigs doubts about Kathleen and her own disturbing journal entries. Certainly, it seemed like outlines. Actions were premeditated, however, Harrison ROW K alone lecture, at the University of New South Wales, studied Kathleen full bigs diaries and said I said that a woman's diaries are a picture of ambiguity, emotions, thoughts and straightens obscuring the truth, Kathleen full

eggs journal entries show that she worried about losing her temper or hurting her children, but they do not prove that she intended to kill them showing, but with the turn of the year, Laura's perfect behaviour turned and with it complains, optimism phobic been keeping a self contained for months, pushing down the anxiety she felt during her other children's early days, but Laura got older. She grew Creasy fussy, an obstinate on January, sixteenth. Ninety ninety eight Kathleen that she was losing her sense of identity. She was nothing more than Craigs wife and Laura's. Mother quote: where's calf gone and quote the full bigs marriage was once again in June thirty day exhausted all their efforts in watching over Laura and left no time for each other and Half lean was feeling neglected by Craig,

January. Twenty. Ninth. Ninety. Ninety eight Kathleen disparage that Laura hadn't stop crying. She wrote quote got so bad. I nearly purposely dropped her on the floor and left her eye. Strained enough to put her on the floor and walk away. I feel like the worst mother on this earth scared that you'll leave me now like serrated I knew I was short tempered and cruel, sometimes tour and she left with a bit of help. End quote. In August nineteen. Ninety eight, when Laura reached the one year mark, none of her siblings, had reached the full big through her an enormous pool party birthday bash. They felt were at last out of the danger zone? Surely this time baby was safe before bigs general practitioner, Doktor Paul in US saw baby Laura on a regular basis and never

any evidence of abuse he told investigators later quote, were taught to be on the lookout, was nothing then I can recall that would have alarmed me about her presentation. End quote Laura grew older, more independent and wilful. Her parents relationship fell apart CAT Lean was angry all the time at Craig and Laura and the tight bond they shared without her. Craig didn't understand her jealousy. He thought Kathleen had a close, bond with Laura as well and told her, so they both loved the little girl, if not each other. He said later That quote, our relationship had fairly much packed it in. We were pretty much both living for Laura, or so I thought I used to. A people that I lived with my daughter's mother and quote when war was eighteen months, old Kathleen had finally had enough. She

Craig a letter and telling him she did not love him anymore. She wrote quote over the years, you have become an oppressive than depressing person. I only see sparks and tiny ones at that. At the man that attracted me all those years ago. End quote: she told him she play and to leave and take Laura with her, but Craig put his foot down Kathleen Frida leave if she chose, but under no circumstances was she taking his daughter quote. This is Laura home, and I am her dad every time you leave me. You devastate me end quote He wasn't losing Laura to Craig convinced Catholic to sit down and talk out their differences once more? They reconciled but even as they made up there was some were growing doubt about Kathleen taking root in Craigs mind. He wrote her a response letter proclaiming its love, but never gave

tour Craig had persuaded Kathleen to stay with him a move. He would soon come to regret. The full big family was back together, but not for long Soon they would once again be too not three. We'll returned or a story in just a moment from the park ass network High its Gregg at I'm beyond excited to tell you about another fetching show from par cast. Therefore, legged full of love and oftentimes more like family than their nickname suggests. Dog tales tells the truth stories of heroic canines who have gone above and beyond their best friend duties. Every Monday Don tales embarks on a new journey of courage, service and unwavering sacrifice by our most loyal companions. You'll hear tales of inspiration from all breeds of life like Buddy, the german shepherd. The worlds

first seeing eye guide, dog or Huskies Baltic and Togo. The sled dogs, who made a lifesaving medical delivery from Anchorage to NOME each episode of dog tales is as unique, ass the pumps themselves and sure to bring it closer to the fairy friend in your life, so get ready to sit, stay and roll over with excitement for Parkhurst Endearing series. Doc tales, listen to dog tales, free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast Hi it's Gregg and Vanessa, and we have some great news for all of our incredible cults listeners as it. Thank you for your wavering dedication and support we re released Eighty three episodes of serial killers from our back catalogue and are already in your feed and available to listen to right now. Do you have a favor from these episodes. I really like our exploration of Harold Shipman, otherwise known as doktor death. I also

Loved our deep dive into the life and crimes of killer clown, John Wayne Gacy. What are your favorites? I liked her episodes on David commits also known ass. Son of SAM I was also really intrigue by ad camper, a disturbing Syria, murderer with near genius level intellect whether Europe living some of your favorite episodes or hearing about these chilling murderers for the first time these eighty, Ray episodes are available right now, plausible. Still releasing new episodes of serial killers every Monday get caught. Up on serial killers for free on Spotify or wherever you listened to podcast enjoy, and thanks for listening and now back to our story, in eighteen. Ninety, nine Kragan, Kathleen Full Big, were struggling to keep their marriage together and care for their precocious young daughter, Laura Laura, appeared, happy and healthy despite her parents, marital troubles, but Dick

your loomed on the horizon. Soon, she too would be found dead, just as all three of her older, siblings, head February, twenty eight nineteen, ninety nine the day before Laura's death, Kathleen and Craig filmed home video of their little nineteen months old daughter swimming in their backyard pool. She goals and splashes in the video, while Craigs Voice tells his little girl show. How you use your kick board darling. This video was used by the prosecution at Kathleen Eventual trial, as evidence that little Laura was perfectly healthy. The day before her death Craig later testified a trial that Kathleen had pinned Laura to her highchair the next day, attempting to force feed the fussy toddler when I refuse to eat Kathleen her down and told her daughter to go to her father baby. Laura had a cold Craig slept through her fussing and Catholic.

Gabe Laura medication to help her sleep through the night. But then at twelve o five, a m. She once again called the ambulance, Lorraine, that was Kathleen. Full bigs distraught call zero, zero, zero emergency services on the night of Laura's death, in which she mentioned That Laura is far from the first of our children to die of seeds in her police statement later Kathleen said that she heard Laura cough once in her sleep, but she didn't go into check on her immediately. She fed and played with the dog first thinking the cough coffers. Nothing serious and didn't realize her mistake until later, and tease arrived on the scene defined Kathleen quote, performing CPR on her daughter on the breakfast bar and quote, but it was too late. The toddler was

warm but not breathing and had no heartbeat Laura was dead, Doktor Ellen Color corner. Perform the autopsy unlawful, big, the old Stan last of cap leans children. He found clumps of white blood cells and Loris heart indicating that she had a condition called Bio Cardenas this in information of the heart could have caused Laura's, sudden death and the defence locked onto this fact. During the full big trial, doktor color, we have written off, Laura's death as another case of sits, like all the other phobic children, but since Kathleen had already had three other babies die of Sid's before Laura the diagnosis did not sit easily doktor calla- could not find any medical evidence of foul play. But noted that quote. If homicidal acts have been committed it is most likely that these acts have been in the form of deliberate smothering, as there are no space

Think post mortem finding for smothering end quote Laura Nearly two years old was well the six month window, during which most Sid's cases occur between Caleb death. Nineteen, eighty, nine and Laura's death and ninety ninety nine of the city raid in New South Wales, Australia, had declined from about two instances in every one thousand births to just zero point six two instances per month. Some birds. This decline was largely due to two factors: first, medical, Advances meant the coroner's were better able to identify other specific causes of infant death in autopsy ruling out the catch all Sid's diagnosis and, secondly, public health officials had developed a set of guidelines for parents to prevent cot deaths, considering Laura's siblings, similar deaths. Callow

is unwilling to dismiss Laura's demise as yet another Sid's case, and he ruled the death undetermined. This vague rule being opened the doors for further police investigation into the full big family deaths, color called detective Bernie Ryan officer investigating Laura's death himself, suggesting he take a closer look at the full bigs. Specifically, he told the officer quote for dead kids in one family in Australia is pretty uncommon. You need to go and ask a few people. A few questions very end quote. It should be noted that the Callow found the pattern of Sid's deaths in the full big family suspicious, his boss, Doktor John Hilton disagreed Hilton, had performed over two thousand infant autopsies and believe that each death should be treated as independent from all others to him.

Laura's mile card Titus was sufficient proof that she had died suddenly of natural causes. Why should it matter whether or not her siblings had also died the day after Loris Deaf Kathleen found her neighbor Deborah Grace to let her know. The sad news Deborah came over to for our condolences, but noted that, though Craig was obviously destroyed by grief, Kathleen eyes were strangely dry. Well, Rag and Leah were upset by Kathleen lack of outward emotion. After Laura's death, hers demeanor does not necessarily mean that she was not impacted by the loss. She had demonstrated such behaviour before suggesting that Kathleen struggled to express her grief and instead engaged in grief avoidance behaviour. All the subsequent visitors observed Craigs Grief, but accounts of Katharine's emotional state varied, most found her motionless

distracted, but Kathleen Jim Friends did think she was appropriately distraught. Judith Patterson one such Jim friend recalled that Lean was inconsolable. She told him two gaiters quote: sometimes she could hear Please stand up because she was crying that much end quote Patterson visited with Caitlin for several days to make sure she was okay, Katharine's, older fall, your sister Leah Brown was heart broken by the little girls death. She was intermit. Ladys and had seen Laura almost has a granddaughter assumes Kathleen phone to tell her the news Leah and your teenage daughter, Tanya jumped in the car and drove the twelve hours to Kathleen and Craigs House. They stayed with a full bigs for a week before the funeral at the funeral cat, leans friend, Debbie good child observed they can

leaned seemed distant from the proceedings quote. She looked to me as if she had been sedated and she needed a helping hand to actually walk up the aisle to sit down for the service and quote driving back through the funeral. Kathleen toe her shocked sister Leah. She was glad it was over quote, now I can get on with things at the wake his concerns over Kathleen Behaviour. Grew. She thought Catholic snapping out of a sadness to quickly, but she was happy to be the centre of attention again after two years of playing second fiddle to Laura Craig notices, behaviour as well. And was disturbed by it. This could have been just another symptom of Kathleen Grief avoidance, grief avoidance is coping mechanism to deal with loss, but it can be psychologically harmful if left, unchecked.

Turning to the Idaho Healthcare Association, there, five types of grief avoid errors. The postponing the display, sir, the ring please, sir, the minimize her and the so mad assize. Her of these Kathleen Full Big most neatly fits the definition of a display, Sir one who displaces there feelings of grief onto another subject: poor their emotions out in the form of anger, frustration, just as Kathleen often did in her rocky relationship with Craig. This time was no different than the full bigs merge quickly disintegrated Kathleen threw herself back into work and the Jim and Craig sank once more into despair and depression after years of trouble, their marriage finally fell apart completely. Six weeks after Lord died, Kathleen packed up her belongings and moved out.

Apartment on the other side of town, the full bigs relationship, no longer able to withstand a decades worth of stress and tragedy. Shortly after the separation, he checked Bernie Ryan went after Craig trying to get him to testify against Kathleen Craig told his sister over a wire tapped conversation in nineteen. Ninety nine that Ryan's constant questioning was working and troubling him. He said Ryan was trying to assassinate calf's character and quote cuff started, seeing a new man, Tony Lambkin, which hurt Craig. May one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine Craig asked Kathleen what she wanted him to do with all the things she left behind it or move, and she told him just to throw it all away: cleaning out their shared bedroom. Craig discovered one of Kathleen's most recent diaries. What he read inside that journal finally made of confront his longstanding fears.

About his wife, Craig hadn't Red Kathleen journals since nineteen ninety, when he briefly consulted her, private diary in order to try and stop Kathleen from walking out on him and Patrick, he was shocked by her can actions of anger towards Laura and her disturb. Language regarding the deaths of their previous children on May. Nineteen Ninety ninety nine Craig Broad Kathleen diary. The police and answered all the detective Bernie Ryan's questions in an interview voicing all is pent up concerns about Kathleen for the record. Armed with the diaries Detective Ryan, lodged a deeper look into the full big babies deaths. He consulted Doktor Susan Beale, one of strictly as leading Sid's exports. To get her opinion on the deaths. Doktor Beale had been instrumental in launching the back to sleep campaign in the ninety nineties. Urging parents to lay their children down on their backs at night after she does

I've heard that almost eighty percent of sits deaths occurred, while babies were sleeping on their stomachs. Doktor Beale noted that king live the first of Catholics, babies was a little young to fit into the normal window for Sid's, which usually occurs between one and six months of age, the remaining full big babies were too old to fit into this time window and most interesting. We all four of them had been done. Covered lying on their backs, the safest way for babies to sleep based on these observations. Doktor Beale told detective and that it was possible even likely that all four of calf leans babies had been smothered to death detective Bernie Ryan superiors gave him permission to travel to America and the UK, where Phyllis idle. Smothering cases were being prosecuted. Frequently he consulted with prosecutors and Sid's experts in both countries, professor, Peter Bury of the UK, a pathologist who'd conducted one of the large

Sid studies in history in the mid nineties to Ryan that epilepsy was not to blame for Patrick Full, bigs, first asphyxia event or his eventual death. He said EP leaped at children do not suffer that type of damage. In reference to Patrick's brain damage and blindness. He found It very unlikely that epilepsy alone would have left, Patrick, so handicapped, smell, ring, on the other hand, could have detected Roy had Kragan, Kathleen phones, tapped and houses, bugged and the police recorded every conversation. Either full big had at home throughout July and August nineteen. Eighty nine, in addition, can't leans former asked her sister Leah Brown, the only member of her foster family, with whom Kathleen was still close, helped detective, an investigator though Leah lived on the other side of the country. She was the older sister, who would always stuck by Kathleen in the past, but LEO

had lost, one of her own babies to in nineteen seventy nine and she loved little Laura. She would do anything to catch her killer. She kept Kathleen talking on a tapped phone line while she tried to elicit a confession from on July, twenty third, ninety, ninety, nine detective Ryan and Detective senior Constable Merida and dull, picked Kathleen up at home and brought her in an eight hour interview in the interview. Katharine's versions of events did entirely match up with what she told police right after the deaths small details time. She found the bodies. What chores she'd been doing where she put the sleep. Albania monitor were different, and the detectives took note Kathleen told the detectives that she couldn't account for the inconsistency between her version of events.

And crags. She told them quote with my kids. I choose to remember the good bits I dont choose to remember the difficulty or the hard bits end quote the police. Asked why Kathleen always seem to recover from the tragedies quicker than Craig. Had Kathleen explain that quote. If I appeared to be handling it better, it was probably more of a case of I just blocked it. I still have a tendency to do: that her blocking explanation is further proof that Kathleen engaged in grief avoidance, usually grief displaces are not able to recognise what they're doing self aware this somewhat defeats the purpose of avoiding grief. The fact that Kathleen recognise such behaviour in herself mean that it had been pointed out to her in the past. Even knowing what she was doing, she still might not have been able to change her behaviour Kathleen told her in that she was unhappy with Craig for real,

your diaries and sharing them with the police. She felt betrayed and she decided Stop writing journals altogether. On mother's day, one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. Just before she moved out, she read through old entries, I decided quote lights, pretty crappy and I shouldn't be. Writing it down and reminding myself of all these things, and I just got rid of them all. Haven't written one since end quote the detectives had Kathleen Red some of her more troubling diary entries allowed passages that spoke of losing control. Learning her lesson and responsibility each Time Kathleen dismissed the damning sentences as merely referring to her stress levels or blamed cruel fate for her children's deaths, Kathleen told them she blamed herself, the deaths, but only in a general failure is apparent way that she'd mister warning sign or not checked on them soon.

Enough to save their lives. She never admitted to smothering any of the babies but by the end of the eight hour interview, the gruelling, question An accusation had brought Kathleen full big tears, even after Craig brought the diary to the police lean, still held some mysterious sway over him. She told Craig she wanted to get back together, They began spending time together again Craig stopped cooperating with detective Ryan retracted. His original statement to the police and Kathleen moved back into their home, but he couldn't quite forget the things he read in her diaries and Kathleen words quote. I am I Others daughter in reference to the man who brutally murdered her mother, haunted him Craig had his d, about Kathleen but detect Bernie Ryan was sure. He'd found a serial killer and he was going to keep it Best negating Kathleen, with or without Craigs Help

signing into the bugs he'd placed in the full bigs house. Detective Ryan heard things that only cemented his deter. A nation to bring Kathleen to justice a story will continue in a moment after a brief message, and now, let's can't You are story. On July twenty third. Ninety. Ninety nine detective Bernie Ryan brought Kathleen full begin for police questioning only a few months after the death of her fourth child She managed to manipulate Craig into retracting. His statements to the police and Kathleen was confident she could throw the police off her trail at home, Kathleen confronted Craig with his betrayal with a negative way. He portrayed her to the police Craig defended himself saying he only gone to the police in the first place because he was hurt the Catholic had moved out on him and taken up

another man. She told her quote. I stood in Church in front of a man of God and swore my whole life you until I die because I loved you and I've, never its wavered yeah. It's change, you know, but it's never failed, never disappeared. End quote. Their argument was recorded by the bugs detail. The brain had placed their house Craigs admission of love, placated Kathleen. For the moment she asked him if he thought, she'd convinced the police quote, did I cry and the right spot Was I sounding pathetic enough for them over the last week of July nineteen. Ninety nine listening into the bugs in the full big house caught Kathleen rehearsing answers to questions. She thought the police might ask. She role played as an american lawyer pleading her case and answered Clare since, as a meagre, more vulnerable version of herself. This will,

Lange speaks to a more manipulative side of Kathleen than authorities had seen before by preparing her answers ahead of time. Attempting to appear pathetic Kathleen was attempting to emotionally manipulate the police. Doktor George Simon identify such behaviour as covert aggression according to research cover. Aggressors appear com or even meek, you subtle emotional techniques to influence the opinions of those around them. Kathleen was attempting to play the victim fain. Confusion divert and evade questions in we D covertly turned suspicion away from her in early two thousand D.

Two Brian sent all the evidence he gathered to the Department of public prosecutions or dp for their approval to prosecute Kathleen Full Big. They denied his request due to insufficient evidence, but with the backing of deputy state coroner, detective Rhine decided to ignore the gps guidance. And filed charges against Kathleen Full Big anyway. This was an unusual move, but not unprecedented. The dp peace, gestures are only meant to guide the australian polices. Actions not dictate them in June of two thousand com. In Kathleen finally split up for good the guilt and distrust between them. Great to carry on merely here later. On April, nineteenth two thousand one detective Rhine arrested Craig at work and threatened to charge him with hindering an investigation for

directing his initial testimony against Kathleen Craig was frightened enough to reach commit to his initial damning portrayal of Kathleen the same day Ryan Arrested, Kathleen at her home and singleton and charged her with the murders of all four of our children the next day, Kathleen was formally brought up on four counts of murder and denied bail them sittings shocked her new live in boyfriend. Tony Lambkin he'd heard the story of the children's day. From Kathleen and believed her innocent Tony said of Kathleen quote. She has suffered a hard life and is pretty much alone at this. World, but she has so much love to give and all she ever wanted in return was to be loved. End quote on the second appeal: Kathleen, was released on bail Tony's. How to await her trial. Two years passed before the trial Kathleen broke up with Tony

Lee before the trial in two thousand three to spare him yet engine she'd, soon be getting as the centre of one of Australia's most publicized murder trials. Leah Brown, Katharine's, foster sister, was whore. Fine by Katharine's Blasi attitude towards the charges and your plans to get rich telling a story after the trial brown till detective Brian Quote past been talking about money all the time you just want to put your hands down the phone and choked end quote: cat leans, fixation on the money and fame that stem from her story also points to a minimum the personality she was so confident in her ability to win the case. She appeared not to care about the charges laid against her on May. First, two thousand three Kathleen big case finally went to trial. The british crown elected to try Kathleen for all four of our children's deaths at once in the course of the same coin,

as the damning evidenced lay in the number of seats deaths rather than the violence of the murders, Kathleen Full bigs defence trying unsuccessfully, to block this motion lobbying for each of the desk to be tried separately each case, taken on individually, presented a simple, open and shut Sid's case taken together. They spelled foul play The crowds case relied heavily upon the contents of Kathleen Full Bigs private diaries to establish your character, her motive and even a tacit admission of guilt prosecution told the jury that Kathleen resented her children for keeping her away from the gym matter, social life and four disrupting her sleep. Citing her disturbing mid nineties entries, they said, The diary, while circumstantial successfully established at least stay quote part

admission of guilt, Craig testified to Kathleen impatience and rough handling of their children, holding babies never displayed any evidence of neglect or abuse. So the Department of Child services was never called to look into the family, as perhaps they should have. But it was nevertheless clear to the jury from Craigs Testimony and her diary countries that Catalan was not emotionally capable of being a good mother seeds was real you did as a viable explanation for all four of the full big children's deaths Laura had been I'm too old to be a normal case of seeds of the children. Only Patrick was clearly sick before his death. Additionally, all four the baby's had been discovered, sleeping on their backs, the least like the position to lead to Sid's. Due to the difficulty in different creating accidental Sid's asphyxia from smothering the prosecution

told the jury that the only possible way for four cot deaths to occur in the same family in a first world country with today's medicine was murdered. Kathleen did not testify at her own trial. Therefore, her diaries police interview whose an testimony by Craig and medical experts were the only establishing character evident seen by the jury, medical experts suggested that Kathleen early childhood trauma might have letter to commit. Phil aside, she had been ripped from her family when her father murdered her mother and placed into foster care they posited that she might be a candidate for a month chosen syndrome by proxy on chosen by proxy is a condition wherein apparent or caregiver induces or fakes an illness in their child in order to reap the attack Jane and sympathy of others according to the crime and Miss com.

The Commission of Queensland Australia, munching thousands by proxy or Emma's BP, may lead to philistine the murder of a child by their parent when a caregiver falsely attributes illnesses or disorders to their baby. Amis beep, He is not considered a mental illness by the australian authorities, but it is classified as a pattern of abuse, Kathleen Full Big so well into the characteristics of this type of killer, Kathleen had a history of early childhood abuse. She initially appeared to be a good caregiver before the children died after Caleb each of our children was diagnosed with a disorder or illness that might have led to their task in Patrick's case his epilepsy directly brought on by a suffocating incident, which might very well have been a failed murder attempt by phobic In most Emma S, Bp Phil Asides, the mother

deny any wrong doing, even in the face of evidence, just as full big continued to protect her innocence throughout her trial for big Hence team countered the prosecutions, murder accusations by citing that their report quickly reasonable medical explanations for each of the children's deaths, Patrick's, Epilepsy and Laura My card Idas, in particular, could have led to cot death and the only suspicious thing about the deaths was the number of them for cases of Sid's was unusual, but not necessarily criminal they refuted Craigs Claims said Kathleen was an unfit mother, citing that the full picture Dron were always well now, urged and cared for and Kathleen kept them clean, tidy and was attentive to their appointments with doctors, but defence also included several of cat wins diary entries overlooked by the crowds case,

that showed she often enjoyed being a mother and expressed affection for her children Kathleen was not always as dismal is her more damning journal entries made her seem Craig full Big and tons of family had told the police as much in their early interviews the third week of two thousand three in weak three of the trial, the press Houston show to tape of Kathleen's one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine interview with the police. Over and over again Detective Ryan asked if Kathleen had murdered her babies each time she denied it quote, are you responsible for the death of Caleb? He asked? No, she responded. Did you kill Patrick? Did you kill Sarah? Laura on the tape. Kathleen was aggravated even angry at the accusations at the trial, though she bore into tears and attempted to escape the courtroom

She was remanded to a hospital and the trial was delayed for a few days while Kathleen recovered. This was the first real emotion, Kathleen had shown in the trial. The day of sentencing arrived on, May twenty first, two thousand three. After just one one and a half days of deliberation by the jury, Kathleen Full Big found guilty of one kind of and slaughter for Caleb Death, one kind of abuse for Patrick's, first suffocation incident and three counts of murder for Patrick Sarah and Laura's deaths. Justice. Gram bar the sentencing judge set of full big that, due to her early childhood, history of neglect,

ten physical abuse quote the evidence for such a personality. Development disturbance in the offender as strong as her diaries reveal end quote. He personally concluded did Kathleen was not psychotic, but that her history contributed to the lapses in self control. That drove her to smother her children at thirty. Six Kathleen was sentenced to forty years in prison. Surprise. Lead. There was very little other psychological evidence presented to the jury at the trial. The prosecutor, and did not try to profile Kathleen, and neither did the defence the psychiatric profile to establish her innocence. Full big, ride at her sentencing, but there were few sympathises in the crowd even Katharine's one time, confidant foster, sisterly eyebrow, said the tears were not of remorse but fear stating that Kathleen already related that she was dreading prison, full bigs case gripped. The nation

she quickly became one of the most famous female killers and australian history. The public was shocked and horrified that a woman could kill children at all, let alone murder her own babies. Salvation army, major Joyce Harbour counselled Kathleen through her trial acting as whole big emotional, shoulder through the proceedings, as Kathleen main companion. She withstood bill, abuse from others watching the trial and the crowds outside the courthouse B. Ass. If her association with the defendant such was, the public's vitriol for Kathleen Full Big after Kathleen was convicted Craig. Carefully thank the jurors on the steps of the courthouse. He said quote. My humble thanks. Go to twelve people. Whom I have never formally met. Who today shared the honour of having helped set for beautiful souls. Free to rest in peace. Finally, end quote

headlines, Foster sister Leah Brown publicly proclaimed that she'd be the quote first one to give. At least the injection if it came to that weeks after her trial, lean wrote an angry letter to the Sydney morning, Harold lambasting the trial for being based on circumstantial, non factual and here say evidence she also last your former husband Craig for his betrayal, in testifying against her Kathleen Road in the same letter that her diary entries had been taken out of context quote its sad day when a mother can be put away from merely being a normal mother who wrote on her emotions, anxieties and frustrations in bloody books. End quote: Kathleen was no less infamous imprison than she was out of it. During her first month in prison, Kathleen told a friend, she suffered multiple death, rape and torture threats from

fellow inmates, despite her notoriety, full big continued to maintain her innocence, launching several appeals to her case in two thousand for and two thousand five. The court's dismissed two of these appeals d, The second appeal producing evidence that at least to yours had obtained out right information on the trial. One of them even went far enough to research Kathleen Door family history on the internet before submitting their vote. The New South Wales Courts admitted that the jurors were wrong, but did not consider these instances enough to have influence to miscarriage of justice, However, full bigs lawyers were successful in appealing her sentence down from forty years to thirty, with a minimum of twenty five years before she is eligible for pearl COM, lean. Full big was once the most infamous child killer in Australia, but, as time has passed, popular opinion on

conviction has shifted, while many still consider her one of the worst serial killers and australian history. There, Sir among medical and judicial experts who feel that Kathleen full was unjustly convicted, although metals law, that quote three Sid's deaths than a family is murder, unless there is proof to the contrary, and quote was not directly I did during the full big trial. Much of the prosecutions case against Kathleen was based upon the fact that for Sid's related deaths in one family was extremely statistically unlikely. And yet it is not impossible in in the same year Kathleen Full Big was convicted. Others accused, Under meadows, law were being acquitted to british women trooped. He Patel and Angela Channing's were freed after their cases were dismissed for lack of evidence. Doktor met himself was briefly struck from the medical register for testify

in areas which he was unqualified to lend expertise. Despite the UK loosening of previously hardline sits convictions, the australian courts in two thousand three. Remained staunch supporters of doktor meadows guilty until proven innocent philosophy due to the different tea and differentiating between Sid's and the symptoms of infant smothering Phil. Aside, no concrete evidence could ever be found that Kathleen full Big actively murdered her children. The case was largely on her character and on the assumption that more than two Sid's deaths in one family had to be foul play. This means that Kathleen, full bigs conviction was based on a reversed burden of proof, philosophy in which she was considered guilty until proved innocent by the court. The opposite of how the australian judicial system is supposed to work because of this that

are now those in the justice system looking to overturn full big sentence. In her two thousand eleven book, murder, medicine and motherhood, Professor Emma come live, posits that full big was wrong Convicted of children's murders Only one who can possibly know whether or not she's guilty is Kathleen Full Big herself. The evidence presented to the court in her two thousand three conviction was not sufficient to establish her guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Therefore, even if Kathleen is guilty her sentence should be overturned based on it. Miscarriage of justice. Last year, two thousand seventeen fourteen years into Kathleen full big sentence. Forensic pathologist proof Sir Stephen gardener reviewed the coroner's reports on the full big babies and concluded that quote. There is a forensic pathology evidence to positively suggests that the full big children were smothered or killed,

by any means, and quote now that the turn of the century friends of convicting mothers of multiple Sid's babies has passed authorities willing to entertain the idea that full bigs case while suspicious may now, be as open and shut as first thought clean as written letters, twas trillion radio personality, Alan Jones, proclaiming her innocence and persuading him to publicly support her appeal attempts She told Jones that she's not like the murders, she's imprisoned with she's, just not that kind of person Jones maintains that he is not convinced ever innocence, but Belize Phobic deserves a retrial In light of recent allegations about the lack of evidence, Craig full Big his family do not support an appeal. John full Big told reporters that his brother feel There was nothing wrong with the trial and that it gave him the answers he needed to move on

but he also noted that the full bigs respect the judicial process and will not attempt to block a review priorities deem one necessary until vehicle. These can decide whether to grant or another appeal Kathleen full big remains in prison. While she's generally settled into life on the inside Kathleen, does still occasionally display the outbursts of anger. She used to direct towards her children on April when he second two thousand seventeen. She punched, a fellow inmate at Silver Water prison in a fight over a toaster according, two corrective services at the prison. This spat of Alice was a one time occurrence for full big and quote totally out of character and quote cod full big and Leah Brown might disagree. Kathleen full big remains a divisive figure in the public consciousness. Many, including Craig still believe, she's, one of the worst serial killers and australian history. Others wonder

whether she was a misunderstood woman railroaded by the publicity of trial. It remains to be seen whether Kathleen full Big will be acquitted of her children's murders, issue innocent trapped by the trillion judicial system where is she a notorious Phyllis sidle serial killer? As professor come on stated Catholic in herself me be the only one who will ever know for sure thanks again for turning into serial killers. If you want to listen to any previous episodes of serial killers, you can find them on Apple podcast sticker tune in Google play an Spotify or on our website park asked come spelled, p r c r s t dot com. If you like what you here, please even

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