Around the world more than eighty women have accused peter nygaard of crimes ranging from rape to sex trafficking is far exceeds jeffrey obscene. He far exceeds bell. Cosby exceeds anything that I think our world I have seen so far a pattern of predatory behaviour spanning half a century nigh our denies at all, but now he faces. Criminal charges. This were a poor man. He would have been in jail decades ago. He has hid in plain sight, evil by design available. Now on cbc, listen or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a cbc podcast before going. Episode contains mature subject matter. Please take care. You're sure called and productive, wife and children and the children a totally new job

but she gave living here stir together bad. What help After being, each other does remind you of what you're saying the phone, was a man to rob her uncle. Doktor Barnett slept whom she calls her uncle barred was murdered in october, Ninety ninety eight died when I was for a moment, and truly but many many years, so I was I am then maybe a normal day what for the way I know where I live: I gonna figure out. Why I remember when amandas uncle part was killed. I was little in toronto at the time not far away from the suburban em new york, where he lived he'd, been shot dead.

Through his kitchen window, while making soup aceh got shot, but it was one that was reported around the world because doctor sloppy and was a ecologist who delivered babies, but he also provided abortions while play or shall provide earth, has already begun. Our way of life and clarifies that went by at the time permanent by law, retroactive right to anything? It was part of a practice really and anyone in any that is that one should not have been a very conservative guy killed ran after him. In the synagogue services he never cancelled, work

I watch right now in the united states. There's a resurgence of abortion rights, discussion and protest. Court challenges at the state and supreme court level are ongoing and final rulings will soon be made monumental cases like roe vs wade that protect the right to abortion could be weakened or even overturned. I have friends that died from these issues, have a kind of resonance and the rest of the world. Legal and moral arguments over abortion aren't just an american phenomenon, revisiting the violence and actions of the anti abortion movement, maybe especially important given what's going on now in the world where, if we'd be

Where are we going and is accountability important for the violence we saw over twenty years ago and that Something may come again. I'm David region- and this is someone knows something season- seven episode one aiding abetting abortion manta rays, going circuit it made in her. Nice. After several phone calls with amanda rob I'm meeting her in person and investigative, I was from new york. She's written for real stone the new york times and g q early fifties, someone who likes to throw herself into difficult situations and then right away, with them she's. A fan of someone know something so the scene

seems already informal like we know. Each other through downloads amanda settles onto a coach binders of papers on a table in front of her she's genes, and her blonde hair is held back by a pair of reading glasses. This is not. First time, Amanda has investigated tragedy in the ongoing narrative of abortion right in act, Amanda became a journalist because of the murder of her uncle doktor Bart slept in I hope he will react to grief and many different maya's ensure you learn to do so in the way. I really it was. I was gonna figure out why bar was dad like that was I don't know why that was my I wasn't particularly angrier. I was just I was going to solve the puzzle. I wasn't a journalist at the time it was just like that's. What I was gonna do about was my thing.

I want to find out more about uncle Bart more about this. At the time and who he was? You know he was not the martin luther king of abortion. He was a very conservative guy who voted republican. He was religious, he hated feminists. He particularly hated Hillary Clinton. Like I mean this was a his cause, even still with abortion being a relatively small part of his practice. Amandas uncle became a target of anti abortion protests in the buffalo area, Bart felt obligated to provide it. portions, because the procedure was becoming less and less accessible. Here's barton a tea, the interview from the time talking about anti abortion protestors, I'm not afraid of them and I'm not afraid of the violence, but I fear for my family, my children, I I think of

I wasn't around what they would go through, but personally I am not afraid of people. All his neighbors saying they lived ass, her baby color. He bore like following his kids to school and saying: why does your daddy kill babies and they put wanted posters out The target marks all over his face, or you know there were like billboards that said: being kills babies, lesbians, a murderer, felt like DR seuss, get to pick and choose what you do like if you're an obstetrician and gynaecologist. This is what you signed up for and he doesn't like bullies where's. That would make other people go out. This This is a bad idea. This isn't my thing. I'm going to back off it just made him like fuck, you I'm going to keep doing it I feel like a boy- maybe babies and fetuses

in germany alone, we have miranda protection over the children that are scheduled to die here, at protests like this one in buffalo and ninety ninety two and abortion supporters would not only carry large posters with graphic imagery purporting to be from abortion procedures, but would care, in display actual human fetuses hermetically sharia law on an issue of right. This is not a social issue, a dead, maybe you're. My waving doctor sloppy and eventually tried to appeal to the forces at play. Often right, front lawn. He In nineteen ninety four, he wrote an op ed to the buffalo news and said, like these people are expressing their freedom of expression.

when they call me a murderer, follow my kids to school and may threaten man. Anything but don't be surprised when one of the more fragile minded leg shoots of provider. Three years later. That's exactly what happened. I just became obsessed with like parts color the shooting police soon landed on one suspect, a before your old anti abortion fanatic from California named james, or else cop or Jim, as amanda calls him? I would get everything a catholic Jim coppers named as a person of interests, and then he was named as the only aspect and like ice. I kept a scrap. It was like almost caught a crush on out. And I started lake. There would be an hour people about him, and they were interviewed somebody's gonna recover person.

Need to talk to them, and what are they gonna? Do I perhaps like paragraph girl on the phone and they were christians, and so they have been be nice to me, and then I was flying visit them. It was crazy mouths batch crazy when you visited them and interviewed them or talked to them. Was it like? Were you interviewing the marine were you? charles cops childhood doesn't seem to give any hint of where he would actually go in life. According to our research and media reports, I've had a lawyer, father and a nurse mother who eventually divorced twin brother. There are three older sisters: California, sunshine cop was a straight hey, eagle, scout earned a masters in biology but never got a job in the field? Instead, he would till the brie, a spiritual, a retreat in switzerland, founded by the theologians, Francis Schaefer, who preached

Abortion was a form of killing copper. Turning to the u s and opened a crisis pregnancy centre where he tried Two aggressively convince patients to keep their own wanted pregnancies around nineteen, eighty six cop converted to catholicism and at the end of it, everyone's like. Oh, a crazy person got a gun. I finally pulled myself together enough to like stopped drinking and to like find a functional outlet. For my what has become like I'm a trauma junkie now. Which I think is not unusual and then something about like the twenty year anniversary of Bart's death and my and his widow has let me back into her life. Like I dunno all of a sudden, it seemed like.

Ok, another I thought they're gonna die. He's getting any younger here and it's worth knowing how this happened and who, with the players and the thought for vengeance, and it's not. I want amanda wrote and publish stories about our families. Difficulties movie, forward. In the aftermath of her uncle birdie murder- and she said struggles with it. Thank think we each other and the last time we spoke was about three weeks before he died so with amandas, hurt and obsession ongoing, and my interest peaked I want to revisit this levy in case at the scene. buffalo. How did cop do it Was there any evidence of people helping him, but first, I need to meet a man. Does add bart slut, its widow, lynn,

throughout the Sixtys and seventys cops hunted down key figures of the dixie mafia, including its enigmatic ringleader, cooksey. Next innovation making money? I'm not an arrest. Fifteen years into courtesies life sentence, the dixie mafia was practically folklore, but that would soon change. I'm jet le pen's this is gone south, a documentary pod as from sea thirteen originals occasions, thirteen studio season to the dixie mafia available. Now on the odyssey or wherever you get your podcast smid. I'm in buffalo new york on my way to interview linz libyan barnett's, libyans, widow I'm interested in finding out who support it.

shootings none of that has ever really made it air. Port to hear the details of the shooting from a witness, no matter how difficult it will be for Linda talk about this, and I'm not sure she has spoken about this very much we're going to need it. A hot dog stand apparently better. As the david by the way meet you then, on? What exactly is gonna? Be the outcome of this? then looks far younger than are sixty six years. She shoulder length, auburn, hair, green eyes and is wearing medical scrubbs she's, a working long hours as a nurse and she's agreed to meet me after work. One day he was very kind, very compassionate you

as the typical give you a one rose, can a guy that was sam, he was family oriented. Everything was about the boys, he wasn't in it. You didn't go to any of the protests when he did his job came home, none of the other stuff. It wasn't on tv and want to be on a tv show, we didn't want to be on the cameras he hated all that stuff. You cut his own grass, He pulled his own weeds, his own driveway. I ask Linda. She knows why bar decided to become an o b g. Why an I think, was one of his elective money was a resident and he liked it and they went into it and he always said that. As far as the abortion aspect, but he was never gonna. Take a woman in crisis and send them to a stranger. and what do you think he was motivated more strongly to stand its ground because of the fort

Does it were gathering around absolutely but the more I did it in a more became harder and harder for patients to get the care they needed. I think the more he felt he was kind of obligated to fulfil that need. So I ask when the protests started around their home I think it was always hear the police would come and they would keep them in the street or keep them within a there was a buffer zone. They could only come within a certain number of feet of their home, but they would be right out there. All the neighbors would come out and it was pretty ugly. It was on a friday night, pretty regular basis. They were there in nineteen eighty eight, a van filled with anti abortion protesters, appeared outside their home as barred His family opened hanukkah presence inside the protesters, taunted bart lange that he was a murderer doctor

sloppy and then smashed events, windows with a baseball bat and was later charged with assault, I didn't feel fear from night. I was angry more than fearful I mean now. I think, I'd be more fearful us It's gotten a little more volatile, but I didn't think they were going to physically do anything, but they were just obnoxious, What about Bart was he afraid we see it on the front lawn trying to talk to them or how do we? We always tried to talk to him. We always tried to tell him to please leave and the police would tell them to leave and they'd leave and then, as soon as the police left, they would come back and it was there a hotline that you could call You could find out where they were going that night and ninety percent I and was there ever any warning or every free thought that there's something like a shot could have none. I mean that with its always, you back your head, but they were probably

talking ass for quite a while before it happen, whoever that's what really got to me with my kids, and I mean must have been fucking I mean they knew we. Where we are going the night we went out, they knew we came back, they must have seen the headlights come up. The driveway was well planned out any claims. It was an unfortunate lucky shot or whatever you wanna call it, but I mean he had a high powered scope and everything. So it was, I would say, it's a good distance away. We had come back from temple, services and Bart, went to warm some soup up in the microwave and it's like getting taken a suit or sport coat off poses.

They had to know that the kids were home. They had to see yeah, they were watch as they were watching us a word and then uses throughout her descriptions of the events who are they james cop and who else turn left now. This is a dead end right here that caught her to guess. This is how are we going into the woods at the back just backing into the very spot that I think James car parked in

for this must be the party took he would have walked along here, have even back here before I'm walking back behind doktor, sleepy and former house with a mandate to get a first hand, look at the scene, amanda leads the way but grows more silent. A delay created wooden backyard fence on my right, probably dating from the time of the ship runs along behind a row of well appointed houses, angle of trees and bushes ahead and on the left side of the fence would obscure any approach. We stopped behind. We're amandas uncle used to live at a group of larger trees with the kitchen in view, and the kitten is there in between right, where the flowers go to where

Ours is the other. The sucker, I can't imagine a more clear line of sight. To a kitchen window than this, according to fbi, documents, media reports and interviews cop part is nineteen. Eighty, seven black chevrolet cavalier a short distance away. at a dead end of a street walked behind the slovenes house we just have passing through a neighbours. Backyard to the area where he set up his russian made rifle and scope using a tree to steady himself, the shot through kitchen window was about ninety feet, away a clear view into the lives of the family. He was shooting at after he made his shot. He buried his rifle close by in a rubber tube that had been prepared ahead of time, and other items in nearby holes that likely already been pre dug and then made

escape. a match for cops. Dna was found here behind doktor slug peons house, it's the bear. The repeat visits and the organization of it. All that makes me think cop must I have had some one helping him. He had help but he added so well planned out. He had they have somebody help him get through the neighbourhood dream cop was named material, witness twelve days after the shooting, and it was a keep. piece of information logged by a neighbor just over a week before the shooting that helped point to cop. the neighbor had seen a suspicious shabbily dressed man, pretending to jog and then getting into a black cavalier. She was so suspicious that she took down the plate. Number and police were able to connect the car to cop.

Did you ever hear any names coming out about people that were helping him or anything like? It was pretty quiet and did you ever question yourself? why I always knew there is more involvement. There had to be more. He couldn t you got that smart tat alone. He had nothing. No creature comforts no, nothing I mean how did he live? How do they survive yet it an old piece, a garbage car and the close on his back. no money in somebody at that harbour him and feed him in here they have helped and do you think it's worthwhile for me to pursue these people? Do I I have been asking for this for years, but it's just it's very hard try to do on your own and fell so hard when you directly involved some second, my kids were level I didn't wanna pushed him.

I didn't want to keep opening the wounds, let them he'll and move on, and I just I didn't tell james cop was at the extreme end of larger antiabortion movements that were protesting clinics around the world he began to nineteen eighty four, and that year alone he was charged with trespassing battery and assault with a deadly weapon in eighteen, eighty six cop met randal terry, who had reached founded operation, rescue terry and others thought that the passive tactics of some of the just in groups on the scene were useless. Here's randal, terry speaking, at a news conference in Washington dc in ninety ninety one. Please call me on this: if they are going to kill you We are not going to give them rest day or night until they abandon the practice

duration. Rescue became the most influential antiabortion group in the u s by nineteen. Eighty, eight its protesters would crawl like being across abortion, clinic parking or entrance areas in order to block the way. Four rested. Many would identify themselves only as baby dough. operation rescue in buffalo in ninety. Ninety two The pro choice pro tears were forced to flee. have prevented them from blockading the clinics. Operation rescue has failed in buffalo other, more extreme, even militant groups, such as army of god and lambs of christ, we're all formed around this time to give, sense of the times a supporter of army, of god, called the mad glue or put together a manifesto on how aboard

provider should be hurt or disabled from how to build bombs, to methods for shooting or poisoning them Our placed loosely within the tenets of the christian bible James advanced through these more extremist, antiabortion ranks quickly and First person listed in the special thanks in that manifesto is someone named atomic dog, a nickname

that came to be directly associated with james cop in ninety. Ninety, in the u S, there were fifteen acts of violence. Are abortion clinics in ninety? Ninety three there were two hundred and seventy eight in the? U s, the legal right to abortion had been protected in law by this time. For the previous twenty years in canada, the prohibition against abortion was only struck down and nineteen eighty eight leaks of. U s Supreme court documents indicate that landmark. Decisions on abortion may well be overturned, and there is a sense by some americans and canadians of a looming. Re ignition violence at night chains changed everything forever that I mean changed. My trajectory and the stuff tat we lost was very hard and I'm

The kids did as well as I did Barton Lynn had four children all between age, seven and fifteen at the time, and they tried to keep things as normal for them. So that's hard to keep them at school, keep them at football, give them a baseball, keep them on schedule for everything you guys ever talk about that particular day ever again or do you know now they choose not to discuss it. You know that they reminisce about stuff. We used to do as a family, but know that night does not come on the fifteen year old grabbing towels and you know one calling it did. No, they don't want to go through it and I would never bring it up again. It's ok, it's ok,

After a doctor, sloppy and shooting cop had fled american soil via mexico. Then I london to france, with the help of some of the people will be looking at but eventually, after over two years on the lamb cops interactions with his supporters led police to him. When Amanda robb heard the news she began working her sources, including a devote

christian woman named Susan and Susan, knew james cop, the day, the f b, I called us and said that he'd been apprehended in France. I had arranged to speak to Susan, I think at this point I decided I was going to write a book about Bart and Jim and I felt like why can't just like talk to her without telling her. So I said well, Susan, I said I think I need to tell you that Jim has been apprehended in france, and so she goes great I'll go see him. So I said, can I come and she said whatever Jesus wants, so it was like okay. So I said

isn't Wilmington Charles de gaulle. How will I find you and she was like well, Jesus will take care of it. Since it's susan, I said trust the calls are really big airport. So shit, you not come through customs embarrass, a woman with our hands folded in prayer and it's susan. Amanda and susan meet James cops lawyer and a one on one meeting with Jim as arranged say, go in and I think alright. Well, it's going to be okay because it's going to be like on law and order and there's going to be like this glass partition or plexiglass. No we're friends giles relate amanda found herself in a room in the jail face to face with the man who killed her uncle was a small, slight man with bright blue eyes and what,

and the describes as an unnerving flirtatious manner so encompass this guy, and it gets me a bible, and he calls me Mandy, which is only my family. Calls me Mandy and, and then he like he'd flirts. He he gave you at a movie recommendations. He told me to see: let's see the movie pay it forward was the story of his life. Then he would like sort of burst out screaming I'm not some homo pedophile priest and he curled up in fetal position and, like start crying, it was like his mind, was his very bright, but it's like his mind, would get tangled up.

I just a very stressful time, and I didn't know how to do an interview. I mean it's stressful, for both of us became pretty apparent, pretty quickly that I wasn't going to be able to. at this bug the gym parts for easy. It was the part parts that come right. It was just too upsetting for my family and I was too upsetting for me to be have them angry with me and, like I just couldn't, I don't even think I could write it now, twenty years on, like it just it's too, It's too upsetting amanda still carries this meeting with cop. Along Her questions which are now mine. was eventually charged and convicted for the killing of barnard, sloppy in and was sentenced to twenty five years to life, so

where's. The investigation here. Why talk about a murder? That's already been apparently solved because there's more back five percent provider doktor slowly, wasn't the only abortion provider to be shot. I went bar. He died if the doctor and rochester new york he was injured, and then there were three doctors in canada. dish into the murder of doktor slept in James com has a suspect in four other attacks on doctors because of the striking similarity between the shootings people may not remember as much about the canadian abortion providers, who are also the victims of sniper attacks, doktor. Gary Ramallah was the first to be shot at his home and british columbia in november nineteen. Ninety four followed by doktor.

You short in ontario in november nineteen, ninety five and then doktor, jack, feynman in manitoba in november nineteen. Ninety seven american doctor in rochester. New york was also shot at in the same year. Is doctor feynman the tube let's missed, but he was injured by debris, three canadian doctors were badly injured but survived and all three had their lives and those of their family and community pretty much ripped apart by pablo. You know why not carry out like that would be very curious to know Why? Why they ran around, I feel about it now and so what I in fact now of the canadian cases were brought to justice and, like a man, I think there has to be more to the story about the shootings, the shooter or shooters and who might have helped along the

I understand the police were stock, free here, we were told we were being watched for a year and that she had a support through a pair of course, who. The Someone know something is hosted, written and produced by me, David region. The series is also produce by her deal, abdel nobby staff, calf and amanda rob sound designed by Evan Kelly. We can now is our digital producer and Her story. Editor is Chris oak. our executive producer, assessor fernandez and the director of secrecy. Podcast, says, are of new ronnie. If you want, they help new listeners, discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find

on twitter and facebook by searching someone knows something or on it. Stu grandma cbc podcast. If you're looking for more estimations check out the past seasons of someone knows something from a mysterious bomb. Hidden in a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the kkk. There are six, seasons of ass chaos available to binge listen now on the cbc, listen up or wherever you get your podcast for more cbc pot. Go to sea bc, dossier, slash podcast,