How do we know what we know? The brain is an amazing product of evolutionary engineering, but many influences can play with our perceptions.
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talk, radio, I'm your host, an extra physicist, digressed nice. This week we are talking about the brain and I had to bring in czech nice for that Chuck. Welcome back to start to Haliae. Let's have can't get enough for you, man, I don't blame you MAC. I brought you in for the Superbowl and for the brainchild what's nicely to my favorite things in the world, I find the brain to be one of the most fascinating studies that anyone can undertake that in football the brain gets bashed in football. So the day you gotta get totally hooked up for that. So so it's about the brain is the brain. Is everything It's it's ethics and we try to define what separates us from other animals right and its language. Abstract reasoning. We do art in philosophy and music and science in science, and so we tried it sort of
Say that we're apart from the animals, because our brain can accomplish all that? Actually, I think some other animals are doing calculus on the side of things What good animal would be able to do capitalist? You could pick them like a pin. I'm a dolphins. Dolphins are probably, if you know that, give a pan if they could ever use it. They really would show us what's really going on. What am I feel memories of one of those Gary Larsson, Comic where the the farm animals right, and they just talking to each other- that the farmer is not. There lay the chicken is talking to the horse and talking to the cow and the chicken says But if you take the mass and divided by the square root of paint of life, then you get this answer right by the other. In other words, it would you missing the basic premise of my theory and then someone else's farmer got block so for all. We know so it's really going on, but you know you nor iron expert on the brain and we had to reach out into the ether and fine who could help us do this, and so we found we found Kara Santa Maria Keller. Well,
to start talk, radio yeah, so you're an expert on the brain and brain function and you ve taught it. Before tat? We call your neuroscience educator, but what's the best title we can use for you what I've taught I've taught in psychology and biology? I guess you could call me and educators int of the nearest sciences. So aren't we all cats? Who knows it all? Nobody knows it also everybody's a student, even those who say they're, not extra who profess to say they know it all, etc. They don't know Jack. You never really feel like you know much, I think when you're studying these things, you always kind of look back on what you ve accomplished and say. I really am I just a hack here. How much of this did I really gather there? so much more well, there's that stuff to actually learn that we know and then there's stuff beyond that, the known as even figured out Yanza there's no matter what happened to your right and aunt astrophysical. I think those are two very big frontier there. I am one of the inner and one is the outer space. Yes indeed, and so
but I want it so you taught wherein in New York. I if I remember correctly from resin I for about a year and before that, has in Texas from in Texas and what would you call home now Manila oh yeah, I'm not only where we ve where'd, you wear your roots. My routes are in tax, antagonize access transplant, ok, ok, but welcome to start or radio cause we're gonna be picking your brain. And try to leave you with some left it to your work as the non scientists in the room. May I point out to our listeners two things one Kara is hot is here? That is another number two. She looks about my team Those are two things you want to keep in mind when you hear the nautilus dropped from her lips, yes, MA, am and looks like she's mine, I'm not ninety inviting the well. Of course, I am not ninety jerk. Why did you pick that age? In particular because
Legal. That's exactly what I thought there were as there is no lying in me. That's why we love you check your care. If you to describe what your particular expertise about the brain is, what would you say? I think that still evolving, I think my interest within brain damage has been in brain damage, that's kind of what, That's what I want to confirm that we have learnt cause. You can't go in and poked somebody's brain and find out what happened. We had to wait for stuff to happen. Accidentally, I mean you can do models with animals and I've done some of that nonhuman animals nonhuman nurse They re not just guys the play for the lake. Could you do you have to wait and until something happens- and sometimes you have to wait until autopsy or at least until you can get good imaging to see what actually did happen person. And so particular injury. My damage a certain part of the brain. It you'd never knew how to particular function, and then a person behave crazy. Earth and than they might have behaved before, and then you
just nailed spot of the brain for what refer causes in fact right and in brain damage. For enough for a lot of people like fingerprints, you want to say that we have classified particular areas that do particular things and you damage this area and have this effect. But the truth is nobody has the same brain damage right. Nobody at present, joint organic fattened were apparent. You could damage the same area and have a different outcome and that just because each individual brain has that particular type of MECCA amid the put the make up of our brain. Is that particular? Well, it's it's it's fuller, brain to brain, but its very rare that only a very specialised region of the brain would be damaged anyway, you're gonna. How show that brings me to ask because what you are many? We got a hundred billion nerve cell gap range and Elinor on us through not only our lives, a hundred billion Swissair together school, very Carl Sagan billion out there in a low voice like failure, micro near the SIG singing economics, and so
Oh, a hundred billion nerve cells in brain cells. In we typically, the naive thought about the brain is at its stores, information like a file cabinet, and you know in return. But recently we ve been learning is much more complex than that right in terms of the storage of information. Retrieval was at right. What we think we used to think that we can just learned, discreet packets of information. You just see something in the world a experience, something through your senses, and then it goes to a certain part of your brain and edges lives there until you want to pull it back out right like a fire like you said, but really a lot of it is about connections, it's all about taking something in acting it to something. You already knew like Facebook, exact it'll. Why you're like a social network, social member, a neural net Werner on that neuron MAC? Can I d friend certain parts of my drinking a radically different harder, your memories cool now check, we put you on it,
I'm an earlier and where I work, I am at the American Museum of Natural history here in New York City, the universe part of Nazism, which led the way so cool. If you New York. You gotta go the thanks of the commercial, zero jobs. I run the hidden planetarium, but now we we, the museum, hasn't exhibit on the brain. Yes and I actually had not had a chance to view it, but we sent you two could report back to start talk, radio right at what you found and what others found. Yes, we we made the mistake, I think, of giving Chuck a microphone gathered. So I'll tell you the irony of this whole piece. It's the brain, going to a brain, exhibit, let's see what Chuck tells us from the museum live on locate. Well, you were with, is I wouldn't I don't really want I've got no case. He was live on vacation check. Emma. What is just to every part of the brain is death in the brain, the stuff in the brain. That's what I need more of I mean more stuff in my brain because my brain is coming
the empty. Listen. We rather my head. Listen, we think, like you, did it that's gonna, nothing rolling around in my head and actually school psychology. So now, as a psychologist, do you find that peat experiences and environment or their brain causes them to have psychological brought now. Experiential learning and environmental learning have an impact, I believe brain development and the memories that you retain. So How do you explain my mother telling me this what's wrong with me, because I am his you're going to get every session our goal, How do we pay I'm on vacation? Did you learn anything that just totally vouch for the fact that your brain tells you everything it makes everything in your body? Go everything even
the things that you take for granted. Like you just blank. I saw you blinked, so you think they're getting your brain told you to do that right. I'm blinking right now, I'm afraid you might hit me You can rest I'll, try not to do as a neurobiology I'm interested to know what your favorite part of the brain would be well right. Now: I have my age, the hippocampus how's, that Ok, that would be because the hippocampus is responsible for what memory and you have to review. Is you re in order to keep? going so. The brain is like a muscle. You gotta have exercised, use it or lose. What? the thing that most impress you about your own brain that you found out and they exhibit. I think I Shan T short and long term memory that its slate that actually transfers memories from short, tend to long term. So you
well rested and not of jet lag? Are you? Are you from Australia missile? You ve had a long flight and did you sleep on that flight? I knew very little bee it was there anything else that really impression of the universe. Tat, you know your brain that you found out everything else. There. You have it the short term, long term. You need some sleep needs and they just just a low harassing visitors at a hidden America Museum hidden brought no, actually that brain exhibit at the American Museum, unnatural hysteria. So in there we heard about the hippocampus so Kara to tell us about the hippocampus all about the yeah one minute about? I remember first learning about hippocampus and then teaching my students about the hippocampus, and I would imagine a the long line of his hip through my college campuses, remembering how to get to class that helped
yeah it's a deeper structure of the brain, it's kind of underneath the cortex in its involved in memory, and it used to be the case kind of after a really famous patient patient h M had escaped hippocampus damaged when he had a surgery for epilepsy scientists. All thought will this must be the seat of memory in the brain. This is the only place where memory once or Durham because of some accident Bermuda motor scatterings. I wouldn't believe it never look at his brain and say well he's kind of missing this area, and he can't remember things now. He can't encode new memories. What we found out more recently, as that memory is very ubiquitous in the brain. It's in many parts of the cortex and, like we said before it in memory of a single thing can be spread around it. Can it cannot just different things and it is definitely different things, but the memory of a single thing can too, because we make associations, you know, smells
thus total Emory man Chuck, I smell so mad. I submit I remember that night, keen rhino whatever you know, you know you're right I mean I had that I was home gets yet today at my parents, and my mother made some food and remove it took me back to being in that home. When I was eleven years old, that's one of the strongest trigger. As actual maybe that's what I owed party sobering comfort. Food is not just that it is, but that it has a smell right here and there brings comfort by giving him except eminently inadequate on labour flavour is smell at a meeting alarms waiting for Europe's smell taste, all this small dislodging laboring abbot than that plugs into the brain, and it helps us recall, memories and encode memories, but really the hippocampus we found is more of kind of away station. It's the place where memories can kind of first be included and thence, now to other parts of the cortex restore. So this sounds like there is a risk of Miss remembering something
got a store one place first and then other places later, but we get back to that in another segment, but before you can get you compare the human brain with other brains. I've been reading about this and I learned at the Octopus, which is kind of an extraordinary creature. For starters, hat can each limb each of the eight limbs kind of that can operate autonomous without reference to the brain. That's what I learned about like there's, ganglia many brain many brands that can make their own kind of decisions. The cynical this is cool and scary. There is ass. You know how dolphin sleep I'd I'd, never as they have to be underwater, but there most they have I breathing, so they sleep by one hemisphere going to sleep at a time while the other remains so they can sleep and still swim to the service and breathe. But they're sleeping half of theirs. Amazingly sleep walk. They didn't want things where Haslets, where they swam swiftly fun and have our whales
I don't know about that, and I do know that it so they showed their little switch in use, which left and right just like we have is that what we have is which we are hoping to go to sleep be interesting to see what different behaviors, the capable of as one half turns off in the other, turns on definite because we have, we have specialization of our brain, have no we or that justly debt reduction from the past. Now we didn't, we deafening have centralisation Ryan, different emphasis that that's always of and other you know, sort of creatures had a much smaller than I learned about flat worms that they don't even have a brain. Oh, thank God, scared. Me wonderful. I would argue, with a buddhist church fit into this evolutionary. Well, running running down our first same it when we get back we're gonna tap into an interview that I conducted with Oliver Saxophone decided a famous neuroscientist conducted in his home off in Greenwich Village When we come back to start talk, radio follow us start, tuck, radio, dot net,
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marking the secrets of U world everything orbiting around it started out on a date is guys nearby times side on radio. We are back. It ain't thanks, would being on non starter radio with us. Let me re introduce our special yesterday in for
most angeles. This is Kara, sent him area alone and approaching my camera. If you didn't think you think you can carry sent their money, that there was not one of the Columbia strips if it was really a nickname, growing air innovative, and so what we promised you before the break that we would take you to in interviews that I conducted with Oliver sacks he's he's probably the world's best know neurosciences, and if you haven't heard of him, you may have known the We awakenings fact that movie was about him. That would allow him now Robin Williams was playing here. Ok, I was gonna say I'm guessing he's. The robber Deniro can, because that would be truly extra libyan double check. I am debate and Rob Rob Heap Robin Williams portrayed him in Film is a semi autobiographical. I think it was done up a little for the movies as well, but basically
the story of his life and in a breaking in as it as a neuroscientist, his latest book, the minds I is about how our brain helps to understand what the eyes b, because your eyes are their organ unto themselves. They gotta handed over to the brain and the brain has to make sense of it. Who has so? This is. What's do what's that, somebody needs to put right a book on that and this can be a movie release, but there wasn't. It was to me never stopped. Let me come up with an idea. Is organ? Did you ever saw medicaments based on one of his essays? Call the last hippy which was published in his book and Anthropology Anthropology. On Mars so apparently he's been places you perhaps including Mars. So this Oliver Sex and in our first clip he talks about the things that define your identity and your personality, and he describes what role the election
we'll currents in your brain might play in determined determining that, but how a super duper electrical current from outside your brain can really mess with it. A mad I think that's what they wanted to do to me. That's what ordinary life will get. Two hundred, let's see where, let's let you see where outer sex takes a colleague from I described in my book Musical Finnair hears us
come here in New York and a nineteen ninety four to a freak accident. He was struck by lightning and he had a cardiac arrest. He was dead for half a minute to all is said to be. His brain does not get enough blood oxygen of that time. He had a sort of strange experience. He was conscious of being flung back many feet by the thunderbolt by the lightning which hit him, and then he felt he was floating forward to look down, and the few saw his own body with people around him and he said I'm dead, but then he seemed to sort of move on and then a sense of ecstasy came on him and he saw a bluish white light and he felt the most wonderful thing in the world was about
and then he regained full consciousness to find someone doing cp on him. But about three weeks after this he had a strange, emotional and musical change. This man, who had never been interested music, developed a sudden passion for classical music for us to hear it and then to play it, and then he wanted to compose it, and this also went with a mystical fee He felt that God had sent for fund about, but it also raised for him to be reciprocated and that he now had a mission to being music to the world ass. It was he religious before them.
Really, I think there was some seeds of religion, but these flared up with the experience I either with the psychological shock of being almost killed and who knows what new and article changes might have happened as he was electrocuted and when his brain didn't have enough blood, the brain being a organ electrical current right. That's what goes on in the brain Yes, absolutely. This is chemistry in electricity and that's it I and somehow from this the comes thought: imagination, spirit, the idea of God and everything else. Well anyhow, this man will put a supernatural explanation on this. However, he has not even went scientifically. In fact he has a phd in your science as well as a new wanted. Just it was up to me to put things more new a terms but without in any way upsetting him. Devaluing his experience- and I said you know- I'm sure this is what you experience and what you believe that
Blue allowed. Something might have happened inside you, for example, it might supernatural intervention. Use of existing Neil, illogical structures, and he said okay and that point where I suggested that the two were not wholly incongruous. He said he would be prepared to have subtle forms of plain imagery or whatever, to see whether we might be able to find the parts of his brain which had pets. We organise somewhat pushing him towards religion, and what music wow
I got wanting mask about that whole clip what there was that people start talks first, Bp S labour to a neural designed to get the first people like that, like a firm it when we had to beat what he his quote of someone else allowed. Even him ran right of it. That's what that was. So that's interesting. So what what confidence? This person must have to believe that God, which strike him dead with lightning but then reliance on to resuscitate him, so he would have these magical musical powers and interest. You know, I'm just going to say and not to ever devalue someone's religious beliefs
The nations are normally when God strikes, you is kind of like Moses. What about the lightning and then say I want you to take these ten rules. Downturn in print these animals is gonna, be able to talk to you when God strikes you there might be a guy that you haven't really quite I figured out right so carrots, so we our identity, which, like you, can be altered by just sort of trickle shock. Is that you do the armored lot of things you ve heard of Phineas gauge? Now now any escape. A railroad worker Certainly there is a real one hundred remark, but he was, I mean, he's a super important story that most neurosciences here about one of the spectrum of earlier this year, the tramping iron and it went through his head on it. You know:
run a low, stirred word for state alive. It in you know dodged infection which at the time probably would have killed him with an open, headed jury and he was a different person after he was like a woman iser. He cursed all of the time. Is a big drunk behind that, even the very straight, like those people today have spikes in their head up creatures. Oh, my god. That like honey, I'm sorry, I just have a spike in my life, and I see this about memory at presumably economically change. You can it bring them the into existence or take it out. Can it make what memory sharper or lose it? Let brain damage, yeah, Actually we see these movements of the born identity, that's a famous one where he just doesn't know who he is, but I will decide permit anyone who never knew who they were. But then there are people out there who? I mean there. Have you had any dissociated fugue. I haven't first associate too few
illogical, condemned which met in English as they dissociate from themselves, and then they few they go away and they D No, why there, where they are, so you hear these kind of you. No true crime stories of people waking up in a parking lot. Nine towns over and its coloured, and they don't remember any of some like I'm your mooted in that state of mind. Sometimes that's you know, probably not the case, but even Oliver Sex did write a story about that that that does happen because he's a special. Interested in these kinds of bizarre brains are a bizarre, and then I was reading that. He begins to decline at age. Fifty, that's Nanette! That's my right taught that can't be get back to me and NASA we're both losing our memory. Here we must go back to Oliver Saxon my enemy with him in his home office in Greenwich Village, New York, and in this clip we I asked about memories, false or real, and how you get him in how you lose and let's see what he told you do function
imaging of the brain. It is relatively easy to tell if someone is telling Alai, because it's quite complex business, to tell a lie, it's easier to tell the truth, but you cannot tell us one has a delusion because they believe they're telling the truth. The belief is well founded or not if they have the believe strongly, and the emotions and the visualized seeds which go with us and People say they ve been abducted by aliens. They truly believe this. In a book I wrote the name it because uncle tungsten, I made the two early memories from nineteen forty of bombs, which had fallen in London. An old of other mine conferred one of the memory is he said? Yes, it's exactly the way you describe it, but as for the other, men lay maybe an incendiary bombs and our garden, and if my father's attempts to stop it, two thousand for sand and water which didn't work. My brothers
You never saw it. I said what he meant I never saw it If we were away at the time- and I said I can see it in my mind now. I can hear the crackling of the flames voting. I see the figures of my father and brother. You do so. My mind why he said because our older brother sent us a letter, and he said you are fascinated by the letter and even obsessed an obviously not only fast nation, but but I internalized it and visualize debts, but also helps if your brother is a good writer. So this is a false memory or second remember me is that this as implanted memories, we ve heard I'm a guy in a way. This is a bit like an implanted memory. It had been implanted by a good description which I think, probably appeal
to me in a romantic, a sort of exciting it. So I know now that this is a fictitious or secondary on planted memory. It does not seem to be any different and quality from the genuine one, and if I had functional MRI eyes and was asked to recollect these two things, I think one would see much the same areas of the brain, both visual and motion area sort of lighting up escort, so I think that Two kinds of ferries are memory. One of them is remembering things had never happened right and the other one is is forgetting things. The did. Yes, we're come back, I gotta be in Mary and when we come back we're going to explore what effects drugs have on brain function ok, apparently chuck as an expert. This star talk, radio, we're on Twitter. It start talk, radio,
the future is. Space and the secrets of our planet reveal start. I in the sky, with that of what it calls. The damsel Elvis urging surgical isn't die a fool do we have that was Santa Maria, a brain expert, joining star talk, radio with us and Chuck carry you actually tweet neuroscience. Note you at from time to time, Kara Santa Maria, when a follow hurts me to fund followed to its keep coming so in this next time- you want to talk about other than on this programme on the brain. We want to talk about other ways the brain can malfunction.
Function in ways that differently from how nature intends rise up. So when I think of this, I think I've sort cycle active drugs, drugs there, people take recreational or medicinal way to alter their state of mind cool, and I know our our special interview guess I'd. Oliver backs ass. He has experimented with drugs and it will tell us about it in some clips coming up coup, and so, of course, if you are not a scientist and medical doctor, you have access to drugs and it is just interesting. But why would anyone want to do this? But I like my brain, I like when I have deep thought about the universe and almost any that enters the brain, alters your ability to have those thoughts. I'm just wondering how alternate in a way they do not have deeper thoughts. Deeper saw But anybody want to take drugs.
Really what you want with me. I don't know anyone who set here's an equation that I can't solve. Let me take drugs, so I can be more intellectually acute in my a bill. It solve. It. I've never seen that. Well, I think I think, there's two prongs: are you looking at solving the equation in a very pragmatic way or in a creative work? made an attic where's. My paintbrush answer the equation. You dont, you really don't think that physics can be very creative. It is the cabin but in the end the adjudicators nature. It is now an unlimited infinite tat Street and many drugs are found in nature and we possess receptors in our brains, for some of these drugs are very awkward most all, then we have Kanab annoyed resettle, otherwise it will be neutral to us. Now I hear cannabis and that you have annoyed at an avenue this code for cannabis, there's after referred, which is called for.
I want to. Thank you. We also have receptors for PCP in our brain and we have not yet really founded and dodging is chemical that binds to that. So it's kind of under a frontier adds a frontier. Let's see what Oliver Sex tells us about his own time. In this exploration, In the early nineteen sixty is like a lot of people, especially on the West Coast. Where I lived at the time, I took a lot of drugs. Oh no, you can't run for office, but I really wanted to see what I'd wait about other forms of consciousness to what extent with the world open for me, would it reveal domains perhaps of natural or supernatural beauty and meaning? Well, they certainly open domains of natural meaning. On one occasion, since you're an astronomer hammer mentioned this, it was back in sixty seven. I had started seeing patience with migraine and one weekend
It took an old book out the library written in the eighteen sixties. A book was called on me grim and then I loaded up pharmacological ay, but instead of giving way to fantasy, I started reading this book and the sort of drug ecstasy. Coupled with what was in the book- and I started to feel this is a most wonderful book. I felt that the new and article Heavens were opening for me and that migraine was shining like a constellation. One of the young people quoted in the book was an astronomer, the younger Herschel who had migraine and describing his migraines. He said he felt like an astronomer, the inward. As I continued to read the book, I thought this is all a wonderful it incredible example of mid victorian medicine at us best, but was written in the eighteen sixties.
And now this the nineteen sixties than the author of the book was a man called living Edward Living, and I thought who should be the living of our time and there was a very disingenuous camera of names came to me follow by very Now in a voice which said you silly bugger, you're the man when I came down from that that sets of what I was the man- and this was my subjects, stayed with me and I wrote my become Michael and I never took drugs game so in a way the opening or wakening I had was in that drug experience interesting? So you take your urgent decides to read a book rather than jump off a balcony skies, really a scientist. That's all I got any time you do drugs and you just like. What's about do crazy sex by a couple hookers, I think I should read a book
I truly aside this yeah, that's a whole other state of my exactly deep. Within that I was doing some work on this, and I learned that on a few new, this care that, in the nineteen fifty the CIA experimented with Ls D to see if they could alter the memories and perceptions of esp for espionage, MRS haven't Fidilini ban that isn't it well done right into work I don't know him. I don't know the outcome. Was this everybody experimented on ended up following the great access to those in the fifties and that's what birth and eighteen sixties. Today there are soldiers there there. It is of course this this. This psychogenic factors are not unique to western culture or modern, called You know native Americans long ago. What may be still you know that the priorities we needed
Can you to search for new vision? Question so it's all its up. I find it interesting, but are you suggesting that the people who take these inner trips that their somehow do they function better as people interacting with other people and there's a movie out now what you called the pill knots would Bradley Cooper model well, because we're so he's apparent. I have seen the movie yet, but I'm totally takes appeal any he in it and it actually build the mental powers and acuity that he has. I think they're trying to say that once he takes the pale, he is now open to experience everything in Poland, but the truth is, if we didn't have selective attend then we would be less functional, significantly less function ass, unlike the retention work then allows you to not attracted by We have to be able to filter what gets into our heads with people? We really do. They don't have these filters me and they have less and less and less of them. So it's just like I'm going to make incision right, baloney,
or what the hell is that what you want your body in the operating, because I'm onto the deep surgeons? Yes, there would never do that. Lessons are medication, well yeah and so much so that the people who have what I wonder is that people have deep religious experience. They see Jesus or or Mohammed whatever. It might be. What parts and people study what parts of the brain being excited and what visions they might have and whether that similar to whatever be stimulated by drugs on your body. Using drugs that give them these visions that the actual vision, the actual visions. Well, I think that there are probably a lot of different parts. I know that there are
There are scientists out there like Andy Newberg, who has written books about religious experience, and he thinks that this is a genetic thing at something. That's in all of us, it's we have a God gene in our brain that allows us to see that I personally disagree with that view. I dont think that religious experience is something that's all included in our brains. I think it comes from external source, but it could be in some people's brains and others right what's wrong with her, so it could be that it could be a genetic trade for some people, but it cannot be that that's what whatever's happening in your brain, that's how you choose to describe the expense. It is in religious terms. I see, because everyone just context in which to interpret it. If you don't have the religion, maybe it's aliens nature, look egg had a right which is very easy to figure out, because all we have to do is ignored. When your anus is there's no trauma, you have not warned us that works next time, I'm a decade I so getting there,
to my interview with Oliver sacks we heap he went on to talk about how you can have these profound visions. And what might induce them and what they might mean also say this is in his in his home office, Greenwich Village, New York. I wondered whether one could imagine something one had never experienced in particular whether one could imagine a color one had never seen, and I built up a sort of farm, a logical mountain. I won't go into details. And when I was very loaded, disconnected my mind with a seventh color of the Spectrum indigo and the fact that no two people I quite agree as to what is indigo or whether there is an end to go, and I said to myself at the peak of mice:
If I want to see indigo now and suddenly, as a phone by a paid bush, a trembling pear, shaped blob of indigo, appeared on the wall and aid lint towards it in a sort of ecstasy. It was a color I'd, never see him. I thought purely metaphorically. Of course, this is the color of Heaven. I thought this is the color Giotto try to get, but never could. I also thought is a color which is no longer in the world. This was the color of a penny. So see, but has disappeared, does I lit forward for blob disappeared, but I somehow felt let blob not only is Lou, most, but as numerous numerous cup that were John Luminous Newman Luminous. Numerous, Roman assume that I believe means of a relating to spiritual, exact. Yes, chocolate, the Ivy, Edric Ivy League Educated committee.
That was a fairy poetic, nothing that interview beautiful. It was well he's a beautiful man. I mean all everything about him. He saw spoken and they would never sleeps. Some people have like the evil side of you. Even picture that you have to believe him in interviews, Why believe him quoting someone else? That's what they're you know. These psycho Psycho altering drugs are not only just for recreational purposes by people who are trying to experiment who prepare for whom react does not serve their needs. Surely there there so the care? Can you tell us how these drugs are used for medical purposes? It depends on which ones they are. But I know ecstasy, for example, which we think of as a recreational drug has been useful couples therapy also needs to be used in the past and in bringing that back around. Let's get back to that in the next segment. When we come back we'll find out how these drugs have been used, their reputedly proceed.
By Neuro Psychiatry, psychiatry, we'll come back to start operating radio, Breathing space and sat down to earth enjoy listening to start another grass Thyssen Rebecca start operating start argue, friend ass were like us as it is on Facebook, find a star talk, radio, very easy to catch their and chuck you tweet it nice check nice, nice, Chuck night at nice, Chuck NICE Touch Missouri nice,
during the brake check. You commented that that you swing robot us and for what reason? Here's the deal, because we were talking about you- know pharmacological drugs being used or inducing hallucinations, and I know that people actually drink robots. Prescription strength. Robot ass. You know people who do this. I know someone who well that I didn't phrasing before Syria adversaries who dares y ever. Do it I'll, tell you I very very quickly. I ll tell you what so this guy and our hanging out he's drink and lick or robot delivery name for o king. He starts getting so high that he's slug hung over his body slumped over, and these calling me Betty only one avenue better years, but if she listened eagerly that's one ugly brought to I don't ever want to drink anything that makes me think another man is better a period that, since the cure you of Europa tests and rice so so care what would have their size second metric.
Sounds like a drop us like a Trojan drugs that are prescribed for any particular reason not to give people hallucinations on purpose is right. Of course, there are lots of second tropics ETA, prescribe anything you know from ADHD to schizophrenia, to depression, anxiety. All of these disorders require drug treatment. If you have drunk treatment which, like a drop, it judged cycle former colonies all out into your head speed people take speed on purpose on purpose, for just further help with attention to help it get back to my interview with Oliver sacks and see what he talks about hallucinate who pollution actions and what he's ever happen. I am very interested in hallucinations. Some of the hallucinations occur with people who are blind and think she blind myself. I have low level, hallucinations myself, but I only rarely of blobs of cologne, geometrical figure isnt things like that, but it puts people on the spot if they a hallucination, her loose
nation is not like imagery. It's like perception at seems to come from outside. You have no sense reticence. Yeah, but you are generating at all any part of you you hear music. You went to the window, you look up side. Another source of the music. It's only when you can't find a source for the music that you perhaps start to think some part of my brain gone on automatic or you may not think that you may maintain a false belief. One of my old patient was convinced that the patient next door had a photograph of us putting on the same liquid again in the game when Shuman had some music on a loose nations. At one point he thought it was divine use so our people can have hallucinations and if you're religious you have this, this would inclination to think that is divine. If you're, not you just think others might just think you're crazy.
Right with him and even great in both cases, you may think you are crazy personally or you may not identify those hallucinations as being external. What does your capacity to judge that you yourself are not of your own mind? I think it's just really depends on the person. I think that some schizophrenia are aware of their disorder and they know that they need to held all and or whatever drugs they take to get through the day, and I think some have absolutely, no idea that their experiencing hallucinations Andalusia, the voices in my head just told me- you are correct, answer about the kids were perturbing Ritalin for kid, that's that's affecting their brain, but I was mentioning before that speed that got better ok! Well, it's it's! It's like speed life is speedily impotence need like your honor and, as you know, we don't really know the long term effects of goods taking these drugs year after year after year. We don't because they are the first experiment in there on a dossier that could be a whole other. We start another decade like the sixties, Prime Adam, for that list
I think my one last clip coming up with Oliver sacks and which speak a little more about hallucinations and find out what he tells us. Among the many sorts of hallucination, all sorts which one may wake with suddenly in the night. You wake up suddenly and there's a pterodactyl above your head. These Hitler pumping, hallucination, says they're called, are often of giant figures, sometimes frightening figures, sometimes in amidst spider or those sometimes, if the little man and Green sometimes of an angel, they may be akin to dream in some ways, but here you are conscious and the thing is with you in the one there's a presence in the womb. Its is not entirely easy. Coming to terms with something like this. I have actually recently been hearing about a ten year old boy.
Who woke suddenly in the night and saw a figure of a tour woman. Next to his bed, who told him she was his guardian angel. He usb port the light and the figure didn't disappear He ran to his parents. When he came back, the figure had disappeared now this little boy was very disturbed. He had no particular belief and angels or visions, but something had happened which he could not deny but could not explain and could not integrated into his world view. I suspect that vision. We experience whether flag induced or dreams or whatever, as played a part in the genesis of everything from folklore to religion, for example, there for some reason. The physiological reasons for this lilliputian hallucinations, so called a rather common of little people and one fine.
Almost every culture, the elves fairies trawls little people one wants to save their, not the sort of lofty level of of angels in the Heavens, but they do at present another we allocate. I think this is almost built into the brain, as well as built into culture. Is he telling us that is built into my brain that our major little people, when I sleep moments we possibly gremlins gremlins, are built into armoury saying he seeing it across cultures just the same way that we see faces and things that are really faces right. We may be predispose genetically or evolutionary. When I look at clouds, I see Abraham, Lincoln, yeah, yeah yeah and you don't see an alien gimme, a human pursue human being or that's important revolution. I don't feel lobster now you may, if you're, no. But if it is a lobster, I probably won't think lobster. I think is if it really does. Look like Mr Mann on more like this ain't. Much like something familiar to me right What's the limit of the brain, I can imagine a day where we plug a usb port into your neck and up
odor download. We kind of did that with Watson, on jeopardy a few weeks ago of carry you afraid, a Watson's commoner, Now is not excellent. Watson knows things, he has a memory. We likewise said, but ours is very different. What why so? Why can't? He ever be us one thing: a computer still can't deal is recognise an object. That's partially occluded isn't. If you put a picture of a cat, that's hiding behind it. Three, a computer will never know it's a cat, and this is because the trade in the way, what reason now you can leave here, you can see its tail. We know it's a cat. A computer really has a hard time, synthesizing power, and it's easy for this is a human perceptual thing that so easy and we don't know how we're ok that computer, I need a suite of the weak. Let me think about this was a really true care. We got a hundred billion neurons in the brain tat later a hundred billion. I so love that because it's so common in the universe, and it makes me wonder whether I can set rest connecting these numbers in my head- smiling
as I do so wondering whether I'll see some midget aliens in the morning as I wake up we talk hundred billion Galaxies in the universe, a hundred billion stars in the galaxy, a hundred billion neurons in the human brain. A hacker scar, talk, radio has been brought to you in part by the National Science Foundation. Thank you. I checked nice. Thank you. Thank you. Carry Santa Maria. Can we have you back one day had locked. You will do this has been star, talk, radio, keep looking up like Galileo job the Orange We should listen. The star talk, commercial, free, joint star talk on pay. For as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com slap star, talk, radio
Transcript generated on 2020-02-03.