Discover how her autism helped Dr. Temple Grandin revolutionize animal science when she sits down with Neil deGrasse Tyson. Featuring Chuck Nice, Dr. Paul Wang of Autism Speaks, and Paul Shapiro of the Humane Society.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial free. Welcome to start on your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Dartle begin right now is start talk, I'm your hopes near the grass Thyssen. Your personal astrophysicist serve as the director of the American museum. Unnatural histories, Hayden Planetarium right here in New York City, and I got with me in studio as my co host. Ice, Jackknife yeah, you do me like that. The nice chuck lecture, the terrible truck nice, but I belong. No, you wouldn't know you would not so today you know we had the opportunity to
view. Temple grammar, yeah, fascinating woman, temporary, so you saw the movie. Yes, I did. As a matter of fact, I got to interview. I had watched it because I had to do an interview with clear Danes who it her in the moon, oh ok, cool, so I gotta run stark on ice and she's. Quite the geek. It turns out, they start trick geeky here, let's get geek enter, that's it! That's a good thing that that's all I'm saying and she's a fascinating person, because we think she does and way she thinks that right and other people don't think that way why it makes conversation with her fascinating, but then you can wonder well. Is she this way and incite full because she's in sight for because she has in the autism spectrum, whereas at give to her or take something away. You know. So, do you have expertise in this truck in defence?
that I am not a genius. I can tell you what a genius isn't so I had to get somebody stereo with me. Is doctor poor one doktor welcome Regrettably, here welcome and your vice president and head of medical research at autism speaks that's right its own organisation, its profit vexation, ten years old this year, yeah what graduations today or did you found it hardly We ve been there about a year and a half founded by Bobbin Suzanne Right, excellent and you know in doing homework, for this episode is, I know very little about it, watches and has its own awareness month. I didn't know their April paper roles autism, whereas now, how do you How do you do that? There must be the counter gods they dropped. Replay Autism awareness month in April AAA in awareness month in April, I could have been August
We should again absolutely well. They say they give you a February like they did us shocking, go, single episode to start without. Ok, I gotta get it in here. That's really weep here so that with all the table at the time, so we we know most people who first heard of Temple granted know her because of she's, a pioneer in in how you handle livestock right in livestock handling, professor at Colorado State. I think right, right, that's correct, and so the end. One of the most academic. She was in the time one hundred it in their hero, scares action
revolutionized. The way you handle like cows within a lot of work with cows, cattle, especially having that's what I meant to say. I said cows, but I meant cattle yet. So what we're trying to do in this show today, as we feature my interview, which try to get to the bottom of what makes her take thy, and why did she took the way she does? How much of it is just cause she's different, because any one of us is different from the other but she's different in this other way, or could actually be this medical condition that she has an you're, an expert in this I'm a devout. Behavioral pediatrician. Ok, he think that qualifies as an expert motivate little by little work with hundreds of families affected by autism and now, of course, without ISM speaks fantastic. So what's the goal of autism speaks autism. Speakers is the biggest
science and advocacy organization for for autism want? We want to make everybody understand autism, be aware of it and do what we can to improve the lives of people with autism. So now there is a simple question: him we may or may not have time for it to what causes. Autism, that's a great question. I was joking yet, but you know what people say: two great question: it merely actually dont know them I think the answer just give me. The answer is that all that's a great question? Nine, I say that because the agenda, Mccarthy, allow vaccine thing and yeah autism is a complex disorder and I think, like like most complex disorders, neuro psychiatric disorders, its caused by combination of genetic vulnerability and environmental risk factors. Man, I wasn't It is a way of saying I don't know. I heard one like those like like a lucky age. I dont know how to exploit a that got to tell you that with this recommendation need some more sourcing and through them
Well, you had a wiki info ticket, so is it possible to have to have a first onset of autism ass, an adult, or is it primarily you see it? kids that absolutely no developmental disorder, it starts very. Very early may actually start before birth Oh really. There are changes in the brain that we know are are part of development before birth. Ok, so it has its roots, their temple. Grand and mean sheet? She has a life story if she's an adult and she's a functioning, the doll you know, she's got some stories right. The endless here, the four party my interview with her when she came to visit the hidden, planetarium and came up to my office awesome and I to hide all the star trek things. My office cause she's a star trek
For now I love this woman, wouldn't other be able. Otherwise, we will have this conversation because you'd want to talk about STAR Trek, and I thought I couldn't liker anymore K lit right now we're how she began. I grew up in debt of Massachusetts outside Boston with a debt. Has a farm well known as a child of noses subscribers. I had absolute no contact with cattle. Until I am, I went to a boarding school. It had a small dairy with twelve dairy cows in it also, the deer, the dairy cows in the school worked partisan. Educational curricula bonuses. They just had them at the boarding school and I worked at the farm. I took care of the horse barn when I was fifteen years old, leaned a horse all's out every day horses were my life when I was fourteen fifteen years old redress gray horse like now you gotta horsey thing. While I was bullied and teachers, horribly and the only place rose, not bullied and this specialised interest things and they were horseback, riding lecturing slab and model rocket
We always you a rocky guess. I was a rocket gig and you know what I did. I made a rocket that looked like Mr Pavia Headmaster, oh, my God, did with weight, was at a compliment or an insult. No, I have a problem with that is who work is I'd when I d model There were many sorted girl rocket people whose all boys you know, and so, whether other girls, the time now. I think I was the only way of saying that solution, not Mister Carlyle. My great science teacher got me turned round science and got me interest in studying. He also ran the Model rocket club, excellent, so nice, the good, influential teacher story right there could savages do have the opposite effect. Absolute laid biggest. I now, let's get a lot of work, Clinton lotta horse stalls, but then not gonna get science teacher that gets you interested. If you saw the HBO movie, I actually did,
I hope, the optical illusion room that was shown in the movie. I was happy that I found out the stage hands had water troll building, even though they had a drawings off the internet. So there are some things that are true our television, so so I had not known that her professionally. She thinks about the design of arms in and how you corral cows, with the seeds of that then very early in her childhood. Since I can hear you interest in animals from an early earlier. They point yeah now back, then she would have been a school like him in the fifties and while the out at can have been busy now she has a really compelling story. She she actually was thought to be what we used to call retarded. She didn't speak for the first few years of her life and then through the hard work of her mom and then these and other inspiring teacher. She got to be what she has now, which is amazing and at an impasse and people thought would cause autism back then back then, in the fifties they thought it was Quantico refrigerator, moms they
but it was moms who are emotionally mostly removed from their children. Exactly wow, that's that's so now you know she talked about being mercilessly teased. Is there still a stigma? so. I asked his and we still have so much. You know restore outweighs someone, that's point where we look at people live. You know, you know what I'm saying or have we made some some headway. We ve made headway, but their stigma attached. Possibility. Still, I think, ok, so common symptoms, lack of speech, no interest in interacting with people really. Its impairments and in social interactions impairments in communication. I want to say its lack of interest. If you talked a temple, if you talk to people with autism, yet they like other people they When I have relationships, but it's hard for them and about their their demeanor there they can. They can seem cold because they don't know how to interact. Got you ok, because they in her book thinking and pictures she allows the rest of us too.
Become aware of how she sees the world literally and figuratively, and let's find out where the visual mine means to her later. My life, I've I've found out how much my visual thinking was different compared to a lot of people one and indeed my book, the artistic rain. I have a whole chapter in there were. I talk about two kinds of visual thinking. Object, photo realistic, visual like how I think and then more visual spatial where you are in space, visual thinking and one or two dimensions, the other three them that's right. Well, one arms folded, realistic and the other is where you located in specks and its actual scientific research that verifies those too.
Kinds of on of wishful thinking, in which one are you. I only object a photo realistic, more LE artist, type, visual thinking or industrial desire, type, wishful thinking and a mathematician is more. Where are you located in space in relation to other things, to do think, there's in the school system? There is not enough of that that were trained to have, or can you learn it can get get a little better added. If you, if you are born with it, I think you can You can get somewhat better at it, but you're not going to take me make me and out of respect lost, Alan's rose just impossible and I think in science we need both kinds of thinking, because what I'm really good? When I review a journal, article is looking at the methods, because when I the method section of a paper specially of animal science paper of biology paper. I want us, I won't be visualize. How did they do that experiment? And then you got two different studies caught with us. Results and usually find. If I read the methods of the older used, a different breed of animal or they used young animals versus old animals,
and sometimes people leave out really important things in the methods like what breed of pig did you use in that state, I'm saying now in science is airlines are hung up over the years, the latest sash programme and fight over what statistics you use yes ago do statistics and I need to work with a statistician, but you also need my kind of mine. I call the methods place to make sure that people are fully describing exactly how they get an experiment. So somebody else wants to reduce experiment: they do use the same way of animal and they do at this. I might get so what you say is everything that we ever do this new. We need you, we need you like in arms reach, because people, you know people gonna, make messed up decisions worried now, with all the emphasis on of my kind of mind. Getting you know pushed off the team because I can't do that out can cover your photo, realistic vision, be distracted too, not just the way. I think my mind things like Google,
the images adamant that could be but wait a minute. It could be too much for tee o my maybe this tomb information and I can control it. I can control the power, so it my field astrophysics. You don't have to feel this visual yeah, you gotta get in the computer and programme it, but there are things we can only look at because we can't pocket you can't sticking at a petri dish right. You can't do any of this, so would it be cool if like in fact more, visual people were in the world, and I told her that to her face to the first time the cloning machine is invented, will didn't More of you, you can have one are you to everybody, but that's the thing is: is lots of little, poems. May me around, and I'm worried about from nowhere and an under I'm starting to many voebel mass kids to special when you get, away from attack Sunups just some kind of going nowhere, so their people? There was a brilliant answer to my question. We don't need the cloning machines
Other people, like you, who already already there already out there and what I'm worried about is, is where they're gonna end up, but I'm saying too many smart, geeky, kids ending up in the basement playing video games, things being done to nurture liability when I was a little child. My mother encourage my body in art and a lot of these get why the same thing all the time. Why didn't horse heads over and over again, but I was encouraged to do lots of different things. Ok, disk launched just do nothing but am characters. Let's do his cartloads to his house. You know what's broaden that broadened taxation out we're gonna turn it into a skull taking you that's the future. Well, neither premium autism resigning, it's difficult for specialized teachers shift gears, tween, smart, geeky kid and very soon your cases of autism largely not can be doing science or any other kind of high
We ve only one word that specifies. That was a word issue here. Well, I'm seeing smart Dickie kids getting these different levels and not going anywhere from ending up on social security playing video games, gotta be out Silicon Valley or working on some kind of science project? The problem you got with autism is at the other end of the spectrum. We get extremely handicapped kid, maybe can't dress himself has epilepsy, yet we will need to social security check there, but it's a very, very big continual system, is a blunt instrument and that's what it's obvious as though it doesn't really know how to wear it, where to draw the line yet Paul this line, I mean they now speak of autism spectrum. For a few years there there's like Asperger's people, so we have as I work here, the official classification has changed. I used to be separated noses of autism in Asperger's. Now, officially, all this one big spectrum and the problem was people weren't. Using those terms, precisely somebody would say you have Asperger's and
don't talk, which I know you have high functioning autumn. So now we talk about a spectrum, and I once I read what was on that spectrum, I how can a by a fourth of my copper, Hicks, they used to be all they just not social? And now, oh, my gosh for this. I am I explained by the Absolute Lee, and people with autism are amazing. They they have amazing minds. I Temple showing you. People with autism in finance in programming. Inventing bloating guitars, all people with autism and an always wonder who might your hero be? If you have this condition, and I asked Temple granted that, let's find out o start trace your favorite science fiction. Oh, I start tracking. All absolutely! Mr Spock is my favorite character. Look. Why? Wouldn't? I guess that these should be pissed these your guy right in the course of many people's favorite character. He was gonna. Think people like that portrayed in that way before he was straight. Rational emotions didn't come in and you need it.
I really related to Mr Spock and his his lodge. Ok next generation development data that was gate are not related to date. We have data on startup owes great to have more here. Would you not have like the shows is more if you didn't see yourself in one of the characters, I don't know, but I just on course for hours first, trying to watch that shell you're nice much was about artists, we gotta remember back when I was a teenager. There were no books, none other than none of the resources they have today existed writers coming over yeah so do agree, has come a long way and has come a long way. We talk earlier about the stigma attached to people with autism other disabilities. It it's much better now, but still we have to make sure these people get the get the help they need. So we can cultivate them to become like TAT,
but we have like rain man is, it is a caricature, is a cultural, iconic, disappoint and others with other. Now, of course, he wasn't artistic, but even a forest Gump through people who are celebrated right in their disability did even though Mr Spock was autistic happy to find that out but to the extent that he was not otherwise relating to people? He's got some of the properties of and we should celebrate them. I'm gonna take a break, but let me give you a hint of what happens when we come back. I asked her. I had to know if she could be reborn That is all I went. There certainly did go to see when we come back after no secret for you. I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell. There's just one and where to get out of hearing there go to patriarch arms last star, talk and sub.
Where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen? The star talk ad free You can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never we're here another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me sing if you support us at Patria. Dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying we're back and he was right, but you still tweeting satellite comic, that's right! Most common! I follow you. I follow you do indeed, and I have your doktor one hello, welcome. Thank you, yeah yeah! You do loving it due to eat a no sorry, not yet. Well. Ok, we're so you're, a medical doctor, an expert on autism, the future of this
in the study of neurosciences it and that we do know what causes autism at all could certainly a whole lot of people think they know and they knocked vaccinating the children. So what? What is the latest research on this? In general? We don't know week. We know some of the factors that increase your risk for autism, their genetic risk factors. There environmental risk factors and probably those things interact with each other, so your genetically vulnerable than you with the environmental risk factor boom and then a kick them exactly. Ok, but right now, as far as you know it, you can't inherited from your parents in most cases no now, but that would have shown up in the data. Already there there definitely familial influence in that chosen in the genetics. If you have a brother, let's say with autism, then you are much more likely to be diagnosed yourself. Ok, so what the future of neuroscience or they on the hot on the trail and ass if very cool neuroscience going on looking at what is different in the autism brain, both in terms of the electric way
tat are happening like an F mri them or I looking to act as an old maid had arisen. Employee rights that so there thinking while you're measuring exactly so. We aren't we ve already, identify the part of the brain that isn't facial recognition and you should already know what's not connecting to those parts of the brain of a big theory is that the problem in autism is actually the connections and cast so you have different parts of the brain An aren't working quite right, but maybe because they're not communicating with the other parts of the brain that all need, not because they themselves are not functioning as a part of the brain could be. I would be happy about that. Dennis DEN dislodging, you gotta figure out how to plug in battle
back in that's it you're there looking down, we, we ve, killed her right. Don't let's find out what Temple Grand thinks about the future of neuroscience. Genetics is a very, very big big factor in autism, because I have found a few families where you ve got your computer science Dyad Silicon Valley. There seem to be clusters. Sign. I see that China will my web page results. Will you take to Dixon you prompt gather, unfortunately, gonna sit on there's a chance of having a kid. What's Autism is not, in the end up working in Silicon Valley to be non verbal and on their continuum there at the other extreme, then, as the other Extreme Einstein, speech until age, three in a lot of school systems, he private have been diagnosed with autism. Let's look at Van Gogh. I profile him in my book thinking and pictures
about Steve Jobs when he was a weird loner who brought snakes the school with bullied and to use the thing it saved. Him was the high school local garage computer club and getting out of that other science books. So the system needs is to nurture those who don't fit the made that we want. Everyone will any marginalized in L a thing when it does because of like the other thing. I've talked a lot of parents and lobby or the heavily math genius kits, and you gotta, candid and fourth grade no make him to baby math and their behaviour problem. I got ok back. His programme need special and rating, as they often have told me, but he might need do a high school math book will then give a high school macbook just keep advancing. Am I had another thing you have? Is some kids can do the math without having to the calculations, and I just skull walk of interim stripped of electronics, because I've got rule out shooting once of absence.
Well, not cheating that. Just let him do it that way. You got a real life, he thinks differently, and when I do my autism talks, I've got slides. I showed string or economy that some of these kids have made on. Holding patterns for origami I go. This is not my mind, but this is the other kind of other kind of Visual spatial mathematical pattern thinker, but he's wonder, let me ask you and ethical Once we learn more and more about the brain, we might develop methods and tools to get inside there and make alterations you going through your life, people Saint, what she's, where she can't do the match. You can't do this, yet you have something. Extremely important contribute. What would have been the urge to say will fix this well, a thing that worries me is the site. You made me social I've
on a scientist and things and made him social? It wouldn't have done the sight. She, I kind of thing, there's a big ranger, a break need to be more cognitive or brain could be more social and that's a great big range, as I have often said. Who do you think made the first stone spear? It wasn't a jacket. He acts around camp fire that was the person's focused it some person that data be labelled mild, Asperger, a mild autism, thereby made the first stone Spear has So society needs a little bit. Everybody rice, it sounds like. Would you agree with it with that assessment, their absolute late? We need. We need so tell me about this. The rest of what many people stereotyped for autism, such as that, what used to be called Idiot, savant, savant, element What is more realistic than it is, are they are those people, artistic Some of them are yet absolutely it and it is a big it's. A big baulk at a big spectrum, so we have people like Temple, who are doing great, who are doing. Maiden society, but then you do have kids who, having developed language yet
really are impaired, who need a lot of help so tat? We have, good hard, earned and well deserved reputation and contributions. We talk about the people than have look odd, like like the mental pairs comes to mind, is a young man who can play anything that he hears audibly. I don't care how complex the peace may be. He is able to replicate it right away, but not only replicated. He is able to them in turn. Enhance it, but he is severely artistic me like that. Seen in the movie on a day s where he hears the notes once and then place back answers it. Could you give us a at the top three stereotypes that people have for artistic people that you want to solve our spell having number one is that they don't care about other people. If you talk to people with autism they'll tell you actually paid
it's just that it's really hard for them to interact and he's ready social and express it exactly so that's number one four five effect, because I think you know number two is Certainly we ve been talking about already that that'll never amount to anything that their retarded. They can contribute to society, and that's false to end- and we are hearing about that first hand from Temple in and we ve learned that from a lot of other people as well as those are really the big too. I think so, and she may the interesting point in the in the earlier clip that yes, there are people who will be collecting the the chip, this also Curdy check or whatever, but the rest get about there. Wrap sold like, and what can you do know how to draw that line. Is that an awkward thing to do? I think the key is to start, with the kids early, and she was talking about that too and then hopefully most of them will be out. There will be doing something: it's it's a tough hill to climate. People with autism allows adults living at home.
Don't have regular employment. We need to work on at some point. You have to say that I can train this person or I can't train this person that lie that you draw might be different ten years from now than it is today have so far. I think I s point you to give everyone a chance and end more awareness may lead to that line being pushed back because as people become more aware, more educated about autism them with spot it when I bought it you're they are able to say. Oh, I know what to do with this person now or how to approach helping this perception succeed. So Oliver Sacks wrote this book and for passengers on board Ok, we're and that title refers to Temple granted, which I think is cool, that is it first it references Mars the other reason, and it also references that Mars had a civilization that it looks as though you are you are from another planet. Then everything else is a fresh observation for you right watching people beat behaving conduct themselves with which Europe has to say about that reference ways. You when I was very young, I didn't
no that my thinking was different. I didn't even know that people had always I signals until I read about a one off fifty years old and but sometimes I'm gonna give him to one another from a distance. I felt like I was an anthropologist somewheres like a pr point, for example, a window seat and the people on the island? The Middle Sea like having a romance go on and the kind of look in each other's eyes and that just like were often heaven and I'm like, I feel like I'm. Anthropologist on Mars, she'll studying the Martians here on this plain that beside me with you, if you're so just to follow that through, if you otherwise have no idea what people are doing with one another and you're simply observing it right. That is the most unbiased scientist you can be
as an observer of cultures. Yeah the bp at simpler saying she just couldn't understand what people were doing when they were interact: incomes naturally to people, don't nationalism. She doesn't layer her own expectation, Larry Knowledge, DR presumptions, right. In fact we have to do that road to she liked me. Does she not likely to she'd look in my direction? Chemicals this social queues. At let you know that you have our cross the line you're now a stalker, but the social Issues only let you know when your cross, the line they also tell you. If you didn't see it coming right right, there's a cue that you should have picked up on and you didn't write year and the gas exactly it's just like you know. Why isn't he getting that? I want him to ask me out out why I'm using a guy lets. You guys I dont know as well as I that is ok, but you know what I'm saying: what does nurse I'd say about empathy, because there are people who are not automatic, who don't have empathy like certain kinds of criminals who calves gonna stay late? We do,
of sociopath, while others were at Edward. That's gotta be a big factor in the student. Oh yeah there's been great research actually on on empathy and and how hard it is for people with autism. Some of this comes out, of England actually from a guy named Simon Baron cone he's a cousin of social baron coin. As it turns out, I was going to guess they're out there, but he shows pictures just of people's eyes and he asked them the he asked the subjects try to tell me what emotion this person is showing are they angry? Are they dreamy are, the upset or they happy people with Autism a really hard time doing that, just like Temple saying right and it's it's, but it's a tradable. It's hard to train. In it like like trouble, saying: she's, rearrange, Shasta turn out pretty good capitalism, a sociopath sake as the problem. That is what sociopaths do they dont building the empathy, but, unlike somebody like Temple
they learn the actual cues that they should a member bonding task feelings, so you know the angry eyes. They recognise as anger and then they respond in kind. They don't really feel anything when they do it yeah. I got a feeling. I'm gonna get a car from the b I after the show others, is there a tendency for artistic people too need to be medicated because Temple Headstrong sorted about anxiety. Yeah, definitely are a lot of people with autism have other medical issues going on such psychiatric things like anxiety, epilepsy, also he'd medication. For that other medical problem sitting. She talks a little bit about this. Let's find out what she said.
Another problem as us visual fingers, tend to have a lot anxiety, anxiety issues and some prevented me from get hooked on drugs and alcohol, and things like that and some people are higher fear or lower fear. I, my real high fear in fact done my migdol or fear fear centres three times larger than normal, but for the last thirty five years my fears and control of antidepressant drugs because I used to have Harvard pack taxes all time, horrendous, stressful. I worked on top of this road to another, did all in your personal life, but is an example of well imagine having terrible stage fight all the time. I can give you the biggest job in our view of your life and going to the biggest speaking engagement of your whole life, and you will that nervous Alla time for no reason, that's the way I used to pay but you're totally children now well on. Among the very first talk I ever gave in graduate school, a panic to walk down, wasn't totally children the beginning broker? Well, that's what that's hopeful for people I wanted to hugger at that point that
There is somebody who said he was my problem. Here was the solution. Here was the dose and now now we're cool, I'm children with her in my office. I would give me great hope for medicines of that kind. For that purpose I get to my head to the that's cycle. Pharmacologists whoever's is this out there doing this. It can. No question at all, just sorry that I spent all this time doing drugs and alcohol instead of taking antidepressants, but isn't it the risk of addiction in people up the these drugs, of course have side effects like all drugs. We don't want them over use, but they they have their place and they can be very helpful for some people with autism. But you have to
that's it. He just sounded like. Yes, we just trial and error that has got out of what are their rhetoric, as you said, is trial and error to individually that medicines and empirical science right right. I think if they don't work with Russia, if they work great right. If it doesn't work, then you stop it. Ok, what it would always wondered, also as an educator. I I don't like seeing intellectual capital go untapped in anyone, and now I see why she beat time one hundred in the hero category, because she, she be a hero. Even if you didn't have autism, just somebody who who has achieved who has figured out what was wrong with her taken some of that exploited, The other part fixed it, and now she's she's carving a path that everyone else is gonna have to it's. Gonna want to emulate. Who might have the challenges that she has just fantastic? We want everyone like us to be what they can be as one of the goals of your organization. Absolutely well. Doktor Warren
for a country with us on stock has been. Finally on this journey, I learned a lot: we heard I learned a lot listening to you and Chuck. You knew all of us yeah, you know what I save me into your genius, always there we're back startled restoration, the Jolly good yes, you know we ve been preaching my interview with doktor and professor hair doctor. Sesar Temple Grand Anyhow and fascinating me. I want to talk about her work with animals. This is more closely related to her profession, in how she's employed right and and pretty short since you like, grew up and silly. You don't believe me about format you I had to bring in some fourteen! Yes, I brought in Paul Shapiro YA, welcome Neil Jerk great to be with you his vice president, the Humane society united.
Is there a humane society outside of the United States? In fact shock? We do also run humane society- international, ok, global baby, so he's thinking, reform animals, but he's a vision so that the right, but don't you need someone who eats animals. To understand you mustn't us, you must have a kid to be against child abuse right as the only way you can be against child or do you you know to be out? Ok, I gotta tell you the truth. I was never against child abuse, and you have said I have now you understand now, I'm like also that's what this is about. You know what she revolutionise the cattle industry with her cheek. She figured out how to create humane animal handling facilities. La Paul. Did you guys out? Well, where of this? In your world, doktor grin and has done a remarkable work to help reduce the suffering of animals at slaughter as like statues to her on the aspect of the people in the right kind of Macao gave you
any firemen, there's a cow looking up at a statue of a Temple grandma, and so we discussed It has an and you know it it's. It's often people will think of the autism stay a while. She did this in spite of the autism you now she did this great things but may be in fact she did it because of the autism. Loud. Could the autism gives her a different outlook for the rest of us? Don't have because nobody else was thinking that way to achieve those design changes hands. So let's take a look at that another clip of my interview with her where she talked about the very fear that she had she has. She has strong anxiety issues, medicated exciting issues and find out what role that actually played in her insight into
finding for where I got into the head of the cattle, was the things that they were read you see back when I first started working with cattle, I didn't realize Ellison extreme visuals thinker thinks completely and pictures. In fact, brain scan shown in the automatic brain book actually Charlotte have a huge big, visual circuit. So I started loud. These ranches and feed gardener assault on animals, cattle. What balk at a shadow of a few walk, overshot refused to go by a reflection, Libya chain hanging down that stop would go to the that night. You hang code on the fence refused to go via or Fraid of all these little visual details and nobody also notice before an added to seem so obvious to me, because I found, if you get rid of all these old visual distractions and you make sure it isn't too. Dark does not like to go in the dark places. Who does then the cattle would walk
the shoes- and it seems obvious to me- and now I've learned later on that a lot of other people are not a visual finger to the extent that I am and that's why they don't see it. So it's not that you actually got inside the head of the cow. You just made a connection that no one else ever thought to make well that bright and other thing begging inside ahead is how animals make fear me, like dogs, get afraid of things worse, get afraid of things that's what we get once and for all that is left for more, but its central banks like in one of my earlier books, animals and translation and talk about the horse that was scattered. Black cowboy hats are storing up that no procedure, somebody from alcohol his eyes, and he was looking at black hat when that happened now. White cowboy hats are no problem, but black cowboy hats were bad or another animal that was
terrified of diesel powered equipment. But if a piece of equipment round with a gas engine than it was fine, doesn't make it difficult to know, that's right, and maybe this happen to be an elephant. Maybe someone had done something to it with construction equipment and that would have been diesel power, but they cadmium are people say it was just an engine now they're, not really thinking closer about it, but you see, I think, censoring diesel sound different than gas engines obey the animal tens dissociate something it was looking at hearing right when the bad thing So horses are racist. Basically, what I learned it, why can't be the blood of girl at once? Again? Ok! Well, that's that's fascinating that support. Have you read animals and translation? I have read it and I would only where a white cowboy has cause. You get, kicked him enough or through imprint on your under. What can you tell us about the book? It's a great book. I
they recommended in one of the most interesting things that I remember from it is that doctor Grand and talks about, of course, they're all types of environmental problems that we call for farm animals in the weight at their house are one of the biggest problems is that were genetic. Selecting them to overdrive them. So she talks in the book about how today's chickens have been bred to grow so big that they balloon up, and many of them can't even take more than a few steps without I have seen- and this is one of the bigger problems that really is, and you are what you we get it. These were taken obviously needs. Words are monsters compared to what the ancestors of the today's chicken worm in these birds can barely even walk toward the end of their lives. So, but what I try, I maybe semantic, but to say she tapped into the mind of the animals is. Is it fair to say that, where suggest yet sees the world differently rearrested? Yes, he's not tapping into their mouths
like the force another cause. You are looking for, another cause, we're looking or Spock Mario Military unreservedly, chicken. You know, I mean in all honesty. I think that she can see the world in a way that perhaps cattle might be able to see them more visually. But, of course, as a humongous demonstrate, cattle to pigs to chickens mean you're doing for different stream, birds and mammals and some of those cases, so think that any one person could look at the way that all farm animal see the world, but I do accept that she'd Chet probably see is the world differently than non autistic. People do in that may be more similar to how some cattle due to so she worked Cholera State University where she's a professor and at another she offered by four hundred scientific papers. Lasso she's totally go and at making making this happen. If there's a film about her that that made a big deal of the curved career
he told me about that briefly: yeah yeah, so cattle want to return to where they are coming from, and so, if you have them walking in a straight line many times, though, Balkan the Wanna go back and says she invented basically a curve shoot so that lets you wanna vaccinate cattle on the farm. You bring them in a curves so you go to a semicircle for them, and so that way there much easier to vaccinate. Then, if you were to have him just go straight, there where's, the there too say a vaccination. You need to put animals in a shoot to vaccinate ok, so they feel like they're gonna returned to from whence they came here, and they are more likely to cooperate either. Likely to cooperate and they are returning from whence they came because they get vaccinated and they go back to where they were. So. What's interesting to me as, what's this expression do this until the cows come home wisely,
want to come home yeah that might be another one as we lay those may be another one kind of like out of thin air, and you realize that you know actually isn't that the intelligent and asteroids or damage to the Erika, or it could be like when the cows weren't throughout the cattle drives, go off to be sold and slaughtered because there never coming home could be. They now being so. I you're not a mediator, that's true hand and Jack God. Yes took you, kid we won't show to have that opportunity. When I hear the name Temple Grand and, I think steak stake. Half of all cattle is now handled in India designed facilities that she influences that about right in the United States after the cattle go to slaughter plants that she influenced, yeah, yeah yeah, I will I ve only fifty percent a mean if there, if it works so well, why hasn't have been an braced by the industry as a whole.
The meat industry isn't necessarily known for its progress and progression or a lot of issues Chuck. I got you on that. I asked her about this because I always wondered if you gonna care about them, then you're gonna eat it. What's up there a simple what we find out. What what this, where this last me all the time. How can you care about animals may involve and slaughtering em why things are not thinking was those cattle would have never have existed? Adopting anaemic about this would never have lived at all. We got to get those animals a decent life reason. There are problems with the other problems of pushing metabolism of dairy cow too hard disk problems with a beta, agonists growth, promoting something's, pushing metabolism too hard. We would have no have you do well, you get lameness yet stiffness chickens if they grow too fast and has just done with genetics and an one things I've
DAWN on animal welfare guidelines is outcome standards. I don't care what you freedom or how you breathe em, but that animal better not be light you men and paying it better, and I have a good body condition on it better, be Firemen? Worse, not very long, damage from ammonia, backing anti? Ninety nine, a work of Mcdonald's cooperation of Wendy's to implement animal welfare audits at slaughter plants? we can t afford ninety ninety nine. The plants were bad, broken equipment, time that have problems with you. You couldn't get cattle shot on the first shot. Gun was busted and things are not perfect today, but there much better what they were in the past and the statement to go but tranquilizer, but come her hair. The early ninetys and the eighties things have drastically improve domain to go into plants on the night shift back in the early, I need in the eighties, and you have four broken non captive fault tongues,
shooting every animal five times athlete atrocious. These are the Balkans that they shoot into the temple and knowledge that Irena Forehead and candles gonna steal bowl about six inches long Bam, Rigel around our hand of cattle and want to work trotted. It will make a brain dead instantly instantly instant, doesn't work. It's like that was totally back It's totally bad Anne and these guns require a lot of maintenance. Now most of the plants have a dedicated Maketh programme. They put the gun on test, stand a measure that it hits hard enough. You know before the Mcdonald's. Ought it started. Ninety? Ninety nine? None of that existing partial, pure you vice president for farm animal protection as Humane society of United in your Andrew Vague, and so is this even the right question to ask you what the most ethical meat we
Just go to the wrong person to ask listening that quick and watching shocks face ass. She described the slaughter process. I wondered what he was thinking, how I was thinking about no country for old man, but that's a whole another story, so you know like most of the animals who are raising killed. Her food nor country suffer in ways that most people wouldn't want to seem. However, are some forms that are treating their animals better, no doubt about it, but one of the things that I thought is most interesting about this whole issue. Yes, for some farms during their animals better, and there are also companies now that are producing meet where no animal were slaughtered whatsoever there, taking a cell from an animal and growing culture. Meat, that's anatomically identical to regular animal meat, as it is animal meal and that's what people are doing. So. Yes, there are more ethical options out there that you, for example, whole foods has higher standards. Another Superman
It's about this cultured meet, maybe the next wave holder, the Arctic nobody's inured laboratory meet cities. Let me right now you're eating meat from animals who lived in their own feces pump of antibiotics and hormone, and that's what you may take some sort of the hormone day that the peat reduce me. It's not happen, not us all his ears, fascinated question: when you think about just the genetics selectively, breeding animals, you can breed them to maximize something or to optimize something for maybe that's the same concept in, and so this came up in my conversations with Temple Brandons, let's find out her take on this resources are pretty edgy. My aunt was signed What I call biological system, although resources were breeding run, were breeding run, say a Braden Great big muscles on match dick legs, I mean the fact these forces of broken legs when it just running on soft heart. That's totally horrendous
You know you overslept enamel, for some single try. You can end up with bad things happen and I call it. Biological system overload you're the dairy cow right now, it's gotten to where she produced so much milk. She won't be back, should have a calf every year to kick milking and she's put so much and milk villages that it's hard for her bright should show its the cost of success. The unintended consequences of the successful genetic selection. What we have to do is look at what would be optimum, not the maximum. Well,. Optimal. We don't wanna go back to the dairy cow, the Sixtys and Seventys. We certainly want to do that, but what were worried unless milk, but we have to give less milk, they also lived long. We ve got I'm dairy cows right now that only last for two or three years of lactation take two years to grow a dairy cow taken two years to grow dairy cow, which is a full lactating, milking direct mail and only used for two years, a sombre.
A very efficient use of resources, you'll make cutbacks teensy, but on the north production, then you have to carry out at last for five years of melting, renewed total milk is greater yeah. There are very difficult to bring back now just putting too much into not that not putting anything to reproach. So tell me about stress and animals versus abusive animals. Maybe there is this. Thing. Yes, Romania can be abusive de calls them stress, but as doktor Grindin is pointing out right now we're breeding animals to really overlook them. So, for example, thing about Turkey's we ve bread Turkey's right now to have rest that are so huge that I can't even made naturally. So what you have you? No Hollywood has done the same thing as an alibi for you charge. I throw it out loud what John I'm sorry,
The browser so large that can't make the Tom cannot mount the hands of their deeds on Turkey. Farms whose sole job it is is to collect when quotations the seamen from the times and then transported over to artificially inseminate the hen, so every virtue we every single turkey that is eaten this country comes from the process of artificially just because they bring them so big? That became even me. I was wanting to thanks giving dinner and the guy the boasted that he had shot a wild turkey and brought it in Turkey on the tables. It what the hell It was like no me made all right. I've got like was journal depression up. We got a pigeon out from the back in interestingly, the Turkey is the only native american Farm animal who we eat in this country, all the other form animals were eating or not native to our continent, but Joe Turkey's her native Americans, what you're, just as they are fact. Ben Franklin wanted the Turkey to be rather than the American rather than the body go. You know. That's the only thing about Ben Franklin that I dont like Ireland
everything else about then frankly, is my hero. Accept that one fact you can't be tough with the Turkey your last. Nor symbol is a good try to look at a wild turkey, men very fleet, footed, fast runners, fast firearms and I could bear There- was no food to feed everybody at the table. With the turkish Temple wrote a Paypal. Animals are not things, and you have thinking about this. I mean that I mean there are things that I mean what what their things in the way that we're things were all animals and animals like Turkey, another farm. Animals have personalities therein visuals, they have likes, they have dislikes most simple Ok, so if there are thing you're more like to deny them certain protections. That's exactly right. There not objects,
inanimate objects in the way that day, cart thought animals couldn't suffer. These animals are individuals, smart, their social and, most importantly, they dont want to suffer. Ok, so do you draw a line between something that can suffer that's alive and something that presumably cats offer? That's also allowed a blade of grass yes says exactly right. I think that if someone is capable of suffering, I'd prefer not to cause him or herself. I believe that the treatment of animals is such an important moral decision that were making that future generations really are going to look back at our. And treatment of animals in utter revulsion, and I believe that children are the future, teach them well and let them that the when you ve been listening to start talk, radio and I've been your host Neil digressed ice, and I want to thank Temple granted for putting time data come to my office and give us a star talk interview and my inner studio experts doktor Paul one from autism speaks a not for profit organisations, thinking about those challenges and problems and pulse
Piero from the humane society of the United States has always written answer was greatly you'd, be listening to start ever wish you'd, listen star, talk, commercial, free, joint start talking. Patria for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com slap star, talk, radio,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-25.