Neil deGrasse Tyson and Dr. Irwin Redlener, Director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness, explore the COVID-19 pandemic including the impact of physical distancing, updated statistics, and more.
This episode was recorded on April 23, 2020. Note – This episode contains factual discussions of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and may contain certain topics and discussion of statistics and information that might cause distress.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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welcome to start on your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. Nor talk begin right now, Robin to start up near the grass tastes in your personal pastoral, physicists and, of course, your host. We are returning to our shorter,
medical professional in chief doktor Erwin Red letter.
You may remember him from a previous episode keys, the director of plenty universe
these national centre for disaster preparedness is also profess,
Colombia, universities, medical school,
This is being recorded on April. Twenty third Corzine need to date
everything that involves a discussion about the corona virus, because things change daily,
we just want to get an update on that last conversation we had with him, which was in fact back on March Third, which seems like for ever
after dinner before them was officially declared. A pandemic goes just before is officially declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization of even ones
the power to do that, and we could. You have declared at a pandemic without legs. I did, but nobody cared. But yes, I did not know where the people were already thinking that it should have been declared a pandemic before them
a job stated cell and there was a lotta reluctance by away because sir
what do you say? We have a global pandemic and a global and
Jesse, you, you ve elevated the conversation quite a bit and the criteria for a pandemic is a deadly outbreak. In a particular place said the horse,
against across international borders, so becomes the bats. The pan need them at their end up,
and that is starting to happen way before the World Health Organization declared himself.
If I remember correctly, social distancing was not yet a thing to be to be invoked
certainly not the way that now we are talking about a vaguely and by the way out
really terrific expert they MIKE asked a home in Minnesota
as suggested we don't even use the term social distancing that we use physical distancing any makes the point that we don't actually want to be socially business. We want
private use, whatever Isabel but like the zoom.
They, Simon, whatever phone, calls to try
sustaining and amplify
our social connections, so I just really
they started having read him
The interviewed on the subjects are resorting to this process as physical distancing think it's a good idea. I will be happy to do that going forward
specially sense. Of course we are not socially distance at this point. We are right next to each other
Yes, we are on our way to neighbours. I just remembered it was only
Two weeks after we had our last recording with you, where we started accordingly start talk out of my home, so things were happening fast
millions worldwide and the affected ten tens have
instead allow for unemployment
your city has become a global, happy centre, and so could you update me on
the hospitalization rates and some of the statistics
to testing forces whose
specialized in what the state of respirators are sharper solemnly.
A little bit in the background. Here is a very worthwhile so right now when it is anticipated that at least fifty percent of the world
organ, including the: U S, and maybe a size sixty or sixty five percent will contract. The virus is responsible for covered nineteen and its
the former called the Sars Covey too was the name of the virus, but any
is, we expect, will say, half the: U S, population that sir about a hundred and sixty million people will actually get infected somewhere between ten and fifteen
sent we'll have to go to the hospital, and so the
a majority people will get either
zero two very moderate symptoms. I could be cared for it all right, we'll have about. Let's say it's. Fifty
percent girl asked about five percent
actually. In the I see you requiring a mockery
ventilator, which means a breathing machine. So I too was put down. Your throat is connected to basically a pressure machinery.
Forcing air and oxygen into your lungs. There's been a very interesting,
a problem. You, I beg you probably interested it. So there was a group of professionals called mildly
There's an mufflers. Take certain assumptions like what is the infection raider? What is it likely? What are likely to see in terms of precisely by the hospital and they create projections of what the future as in store for us when it comes. There was something like a
dammit. Those models are currently all over the map. To the point where this
Three different subjects you put in and so much unknown about this particular virus that, when their whispering
to the ears of people and government will have to make statements order
mechanical by lawyers, order, protection and personal protection equipment so on, and so
Others are saying, you know what we another hundred thousand mechanical ventilators your another
toddler says no, our calculations, we, twenty thousand, that codes of disparity, has become very prevalent to the point where
in our nobody's really true
seeing the marbles out. No mothers elicit this. Does there really very nice people, but the fact is:
models are totally the Burundi information put an instance net. So much, certainly a lot of different subjects.
Anyway long story short, because there is similarly such a tremendous. The man and a tremendous needs to build more hospital beds, especially ass. You bet
we had the army corps engineers, who are a wonderful, very tardy group of people attracting armlets fence. They came, for example, to New York to a huge convey
since then: the Java Centre and built a
at twenty five hundred men hospital and then the army or the military, is also said that by a hospital ship comfort to be docked in the New York harbor. To give you,
or beds turns out. We're not gonna. Give me those birds
The theory, though, was that it be better over plan than under plant, except the problem with this year has been that
Every single city in the country into spilling their own surge, maybe not, is
because the yards were pretty steep or
demanding things at the same time and since the federal government so extraordinarily at risk
roundly disorganized and you don't have to use- were incompetent in creating national.
Lands and settling national priorities. We ended up
having some voices of more than they need other places. Who don't really have much need right now
but probably will in the near future it it's. It's not a thought through plan, with the amount of federal
recital direction that we might have hoped for accept several when we get back to the modeling comments. Just for me,
so we do a lot of modelling and astrophysics and we would pass
she went on a model based on whether
there are too many loose ends. There were sort of, if not
a truly tied together were at least
even if you had a good reason for assigning a value in one place or another. If there are ten or twenty differ,
values, you start getting noise after a while. You start getting something you can't trust so,
let me just ask you: what are some of the input parameters,
to these models, I know one of them would be if you
have the disease was the average number of people that would contracted from you? That's a very loud
the correct, exactly an original is two point: three
so, although more than two people would like would be infected by you, but this now this recent dated jested, maybe somewhere between five and six people
and the multiplier effect from that. Just that difference of infective it has
men. This outcome output that is falling and makes the control this much more.
One of the things that we have to do in controlling the spread of the virus,
This is due. Somebody called contact tracing. So if you turn out that positive test somebody with a health problem,
oh you up and say: let's go over your last two weeks and we ve been in touch with. Where have you been endless, trying to figure out? Who can we will? We need the cards and make sure they get tested? So if you're only lets say infecting on average, two other people- that's one thing if you're infecting on average. Finally have people
that makes that job of contact tracing horrendously more complicated, difficult and expensive right
By the way we have about twenty two hundred people were designated contact
This is the United States answer,
We are now ass. Many we need over a hundred thousand some say something.
Forcing his eyes three hundred thousand people. We do contract pricing for Gonna, get controllers arguments based on the fact that we will take the disease is more infectious and it was so. This notion that you be infecting to other people are six other people, s of course, greatly
big aided by physical distancing itself. So if you say the rate is this and then so, please engage in
physical distance hanging. Everyone does that number drops in the changes, the mob right and the other thing. I would just gone on about this, but the fact is that for not doing test
we're doing some, but nowhere near as much we need to
we don't really know whose positive. If we get testing turban,
We wish right now we could say well these public health interventions like physical distance
wearing masks at when you do go outside and so on could potentially have such and such a fact. But if we don't even know the baseline of how many people are infected and who's infected, that obviously throws a monkey run
this entire challenge away up so part of his understand. It correctly part of what makes this virus particularly insidious is the incubation period before you even have a symptom that would indicate that runs right have so
Europe, are you contagious over that time? Yes, so this has also been a point of controversy, so most people, it is thought between the time of contact, our contract in the infection and the time of getting symptoms. If you're gonna be in the category of people, get symptoms is
five days, but the incubation period is somewhere between two.
Three days on one end and fourteen days on the other, and so, if you ve had a concept was content with summit whose positive and either Europe get tested, and you don't have symptoms within a two week period time you're not likely to be thought to be positive. So there's that, but then, if you tell me about it,
waste of three twenty eight million people, even small percentage changes, have huge differences in the point. The outcome,
oh dear you're, mildly analysis, so comes very complicated.
Doktor eyes, famously said the other day about this. We should open schools again
a country which case he says
We ve only got another two or three percent fatality rate, which is,
millions and millions of people. If you think about the entire population, you are so. We have to be
careful even about small numbers. One we're talking about what what's going to these mumbling inputs switches,
as a small percentage on a huge number is a lot of people and a lot has been most paper headlines. That brings me to the question about the possible second.
Wave. This occurred. A virus got me reading about the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic, and-
There are multiple waves in it when awaiting
came back so we started you started by saying we might ultimately have half the population. The United States have
been infected with the crowd of Irish, presumably to spread over some period of time. That way,
guess, zoom more
people waves, so that we do flatly curve. We don't
over the beds, but still it runs its course again. This preserves its before. We have a vaccine, so can tell me about second way
and how do you? How do we had? We mitigate that, while essentially my
We might show. Now is that the second wave is inevitable and ass. We a third wave after that
this is the reality of which, of course brings us the punchbowl. Now now what that's gonna be the case in the grounds and prepared for a lot of intervention.
That are of the physical separation shelter in place type before we have an effective vaccine, which is still a year to year,
half way, even some very, very
much accelerated research together, a vaccine development out to market so
when, for a long haul near
I've been trying to grapple with for myself personally as well
for all the rest of us, because what is
man. I'm now not in my were using the wisest
very very different. I'm not sitting next to you as well, as was the case when we last met this guy,
asian and what goes on for money,
the months and months what if it goes on for a year and by the way were not.
Even sure that this particular virus will be amenable to a an affair
the vaccine, and it may not be
the sum of speculated that we might be seen. Annual recurrences of this particular
and the annual real institution of the physical separation?
the euro. Having meetings
did your way in view of the internet for the foreseeable future, ethical venture will get this package, but
your pointing out in our your your wedding were next fall. I would be thinking about beggars,
you, don't have a non refundable deposit placed us. I think that the visa waiver reserve before me a good or a commercial break gimme, some
they hope just to get us through the commercial. Stopping hope is that were actually learning or what to wear.
No one is were burning a lot about our ability to adapt Antwerp, our ability,
become more resilient as people which is really great. There's a second thing was safer after the commercial, but it's really
we'll come back to the other half of a positive
goodness from Doktor Urban ran winter. When start talking.
Rapid back to start off, I'm here with doktor wooden readily director of Colombia, universities, National Centre for Disease Preparedness disaster, Susan Disaster Preparedness, which it's gotta be like the coolest business card. Anyone has ever carried
if we have any trade with its pick up, some of
where we lay out if we were trying to to understand what could be a recurrence, Malta, the anchoring says, which would happen if, according to hear Hurley Comment, half the population,
would ultimately get the disease, but would you say that all our social, distancing or physical distancing has done the job well
the only tool we have. What's that, what we don't have a specific medication apple tree covered nineteen.
I've been on a vaccine, so whatever his work is what we ve been doing
which in other words and for every rational, seeing a slow down in but say New York City. The thing that we import-
it was pretty strict sheltering in place and closing down of
schools, restaurants, mass.
Events in areas
but really by grocery stores in pharmacies. So I do think that has been working and
good work and other question now persons were being pushed like
Is it not a restart businesses in some governors who are ready to get?
back to business like on Monday and inside it's it's a very unfortunate rush.
At a time where we don't really. I went up to us to actually put forward and we'll just accelerate the extends.
And the duration of a resurgence of this fire. So to that point,
the way our centre at Columbia is putting out a report that is going to be into the very special
if it's about how and when can you open a barber shop worry another retail.
Business or your local restaurant there's a lot of hot air about all. That now means that the tremendous saying people
protesting and banners and placards and yeah yeah yeah, and you can't you can feel for them.
Out of a job right. Am I totally fail for them here till we feel for them, so the governors have to be very careful that
in their desire to respond to the legitimate, very, very legitimate concerns of people have about their income
anger read. This is serious business for people such as the matter of aid.
Vineyards and changing their norms. In so can I pay the rent next week, so I get all that, but the question that we have the balance is: if we real
when to quickly before we have the ability to control, spread and even just the basics of getting testing done. That's that's a potential
faster that nobody wants and nobody wants to be responsible for. So
we have a lot of things you do and as the basis of the report and you're just going becoming out with, could you remind us some of us who took
algae a long time ago, what are the specifics of an anti body test? What is actually going on in their test so as to cause of tests on that one
which is referred to as a pc, our test, which doesn't need and want to know what that is the way it measures the presence of the virus. By looking for particles
the viruses, RNA or DNA, but only in a particular way,
and it says they do the test, this
what the nasal swab, where they are most swap down, you knows they get us
approval of the mucous in the back of the nose
they send to the lab in the lab. They mix it reagents and they come up. They say. Ok, this person tested positive for the presence of the virus, the other
category of tests? Are the surrounding tests were the end that body and in those says, were looking to see if you have evidence that your body has built up a resistance view, something on anti bodies? So you may not be testing positive right now for the actual presence of the virus, but the pc arduous. But if you have high everybody's, that may mean that you, you have
in the past, and you now built up resistance to it, because you now have anti bodies, so one measures for the virus and the other,
it was your bodies reaction to it
saying the anybody that I might have created it. My own physiology to fight a corona virus that I might have had this fat unique for you
save you made that anybody for this virus. You can do that. What does different causes
anybody, so the subsequent I gm which happens is.
What are you getting inspections as soon as you have a new virus or bacteria that your body doesn't like it
some generalised antibodies, called idea of
Two weeks later, it produces a much more specific anti body to the thing that we might be talking about my four out of ours and that
then I e g g and thereby so as we get better and better at that. We're gonna get warm words.
Vague about this antibiotic. His age g is specific.
The growth of ours, so you had grown a virus, even if you didn't have symptoms at varying a
This will know that. Can you imagine a new
future. Where we do have the anybody,
ass to the other tat you say: ok, those you folks are.
A new and more immune than others you can start going back to work. Is this every realistic, yes, could be realised
The problem here is that
We are or how long those anybody's will last and how protective will actually be, and some people,
I think that the anti bodies that you build up the corona virus may not be as protective as we like them to be, and, second of all, even if they are protect the widow of they'll, be protected
months, six once a year or whenever services in a category
right, announce that are really working. People are working on this uncomfortable about predicting when and how this whole episode has got it in an enemy to complement
things further, but is covered nineteen more or less.
Susceptible to mutations
compared to other viable common, cold or anything else. Here, the colonel viruses capable
we want a lot of mutations to the point where,
and this is one of the reasons why it may be complicated- to find a back seen that works possibilities, insignificant mutations, the virus and the point where the vaccine that you made up was very specifically
the version six months ago and no longer specific, is obviously a major problem for our Santa
here are the other, how they could also be treating me a new vaccine. Every season you like, we got our annual slew shots, which, hopefully everybody
I certainly want. Europe's escaped listeners will be getting in Andalusia, but it may be. That will be
of the add a corona virus component to the
your flew shot. That would be a great thing to make that were at the time about the death undercurrents. There have been
ray guided by what was going on there, rather,
So what went into this fact that we have, I believe, very significant under counting of the debts associated with covered
to end and the copper reasons for that number one is we didn't start doing testing effectively? Certainly this country in most other countries and so well, ass
the situation started. Them is just report. No,
Today's about somebody who died in early February, who was thought to have
around a virus and there's a lot of anecdotes, anecdotal stories about people who had arrived,
Who our friend who died in Nigeria,
early February, who
Add symptoms, very consistent woods, crawler bars, but we weren't do ingesting. So that's a problem. A second problem, the under counting is that a lot of people are dying because of the open writing pandemic. Don't actually had the virus, and let me explain so
You few have severe chest: bang you're having a heart attack and you go to an Romania city we got half ago when they mercy rose, were like chaos beyond what you ve been a man
You might get appropriate evaluation and trade.
For your symptoms
timely manner because the yards were over way over overcrowded staffers, completely consumed with take care of covert patients. So your care,
might be delayed and you might not be getting everything you name it time with Russian softly died under those circumstances. The autopsy might not show evidence of covert nineteen of the crown of ours, but you will have died as a consequence of
the presence of this huge outbreak of various cities. So there's gotta be a lot of assessment of the boy
but fate talents and says they were best- we saw a third more fatality sembled currently know about. I would not be surprised by them
shouldn't be a an unusual way to account for things I remembered I was yarn when I first heard they talk about the least idea of a snowstorm, for example the apt someone make it
out in the cold and freeze sure, but you also the heart attack
people shovelling snow exactly right. The whole trickled down
ways and means that people are touched and affected and in some cases, leisurely buy up.
We get our second and last break. I'm just ask United States look,
real bad and the numbers when it finally arrived on our shores. Racism
we should have done that we didn't do and what countries got it right
we're gonna get like South Korea, like Singapore. Initially
So what did much more aggressive testing so that then we were doing, and there were three
types of failures that happened in the United States are important. The first is that we completely screwed up the testing. We just didn't get it right. We made many mistakes and we were extremely far behind. Other countries are doing a more appropriate amount of testing that lack of testing left us following the dark. With respect to who added season
we did not. That was a big problem. The second problem was that the messaging they came for the White House was a
disorganized mess basically and that disorganization of messaging left.
Governors and mayors, have to improvise and make it up on their own, and we ended up with desperate policies all of the country that was a mess, and the third thing is that
We ran the sleep under prepared for what was happening in the hospitals, so all the problems of personal protective equipment like guns and massive, or that lack of sufficient mechanical ban list. All of this was all about this in the third jewish mistake that the country made so inadequate testing bad messaging and inadequate preparing for the fact that a lotta hospitals.
Not in this process is really among the things that we must stop pretty badly. There's something I wonder. All things considered. The United States is a pretty healthy country. All things considered, and so an statistic I saw her return thought to think about before
was country by country how many hospital beds per capita do they have right? Hospital beds per hundred thousand in the population would say, and United States hospital bed number was relatively low, and so what could possibly take us
by storm is anything the ends of sending that need above the average baseline rate, and they are met
You can't blame the health system for that. At that point, this blight
The issue is very complicated because, first of all for business reasons, a lot of hospitals,
make decisions by how many beds they want it
beds are also big breadwinner
but, on the other hand, ass was that are under utilised, like a lot of rural hospitals. Just gets shut down
as one thing. The second thing is that hospital systems operate more
like many businesses out, what's called just in time ordering so a lot of companies that may years ago,
I've had these huge warehouses with everything. Stop that maintaining a big supplies was closely
so they use a bit late. Maybe I have a few days of
for their commodity is
and then reorder so they arrived, have to have massive warehouses.
Hospitals are doing the same thing in terms of their back up equipment, mechanical ventilators and other candidates
but whatever it is our their stockpile of regular,
need. So that also leaves us very
if all of us, if you need a lot in a short period of time- and you don't have it and the governments, the federal government, stuck browser, also depleted, we enter,
with what we saw in New York City, another place, so it's a complicated business, but a of decisions by hospitals.
Are not made on the basis of we might get a hundred
storm or under your pandemic pop up and made to be ready for that. That is the stress on them.
I did so a lot of that never disappears active before we take a mess break, a quick question. There's occasional talk you hear about,
whether you can believe the numbers that have come out of other countries, especially China to health professionals, have any reason to doubt the numbers that come from one country, verses
In this I think so. I especially China is not been exactly transparent historically, and I think we probably were late to be informed about what
company in China we needed to get whatever our profession,
say from the CDC and other places they get in there and really have to figure out what was going
on that could have happened earlier. We don't
a real number terms of fatalities in China
I reason so China is like
extreme example of why we sceptic about sceptical about information from other countries.
But I ran also- and I don't know- either talk as if political implications and GEO political implications of having long number
this is a high number and so on so there's a lot of them,
the ability, but also out of ability in the populations. We tend to have a much younger population that China
some of the countries that we have different rates of chronic illness that we have such aid,
where this after or Japan and so on, so a lot of differences make the number is not necessarily perfectly compatible for comparable some gonna. Take a quick break will come right back to my interview with Doktor Darwin.
The current state of the debate. I would like to give a patriotic shut out of the following patriotic patrons so odd, Al Gore, Zani and Christopher louder guys. Thank you so much for the gravity assist that helps us make our way across the cosmos and for those of you listening who, like your own patriotic shut out,
though the patriarch dot com slashed, star, talk, radio and support us we're back start off your girlfriend Revenue Directorate of Columbia, University, National Centre for disaster preparedness. With pick up where we left off we're talking about reporting of numbers around the world, I hate to even bring this up, but its outcome.
Conspiracy, theorists Levin. I give them more credence than they deserve, but let me just
ask. We all know in the town where this virus first arose. Isn't there a cdc?
kind of operation going on there,
a disease lab yeah yeah
present one of the year in a way out there, a conspiracy
The reason is that this virus was developed and released in a lab in China.
Our neighbours develop, and then accidentally, railways, but a lot of people looked into this and the vast majority of women
I think that first, I'm so all legitimate scientists have deepened the notion that China deliberately created this virus
Ways of testing for that which are pretty sophisticated. I can begin to explain it to you, but I will say that
I don't have any one. I would be legitimate college think that that actually happening China, so one factors.
It was a weapon eyes virus. Was I actually created right? That's it
not even where I'm going just if you do have a viral outbreak in a place where you,
viral research going on in labs. That is almost a coincidence too strong to ignore correct. While I would say that's contradiction
by the fact that almost every single major outbreak and pandemic that we had the last hundred plus years as the emanated from China
That's because there are some placing in Africa where these, where markets are prevalent, where people are eating, it only bats
at times of animals that are considered exotic.
A lot of those viruses other them.
Once the avian flu type viruses that
These viruses, like mayors and stars, have come from people consuming
animals that tend to harbour these kinds of viruses back a view taken away, then become transmissible among people, but I wouldn't put my stock in the fact that it was even being developed in a lab intentionally.
All, but in a strange things happen in our world, and so I guess you can one hundred percent rule out, but the prevailing thought amongst, among actual scientists that did not happen but encouraging to learn what kind of stuff
where the public is looking for expertise and because of the evolution of the virus, advice related to combating the virus has devolved dear. I use that word.
Way so we do remember, the Clarion call to not wear masks is not necessary and likely to catch
now we're hearing everybody's gotta we're mask? So what? What is the public supposed to do how they supposed to react when they see this flip?
meaning messaging, wasn't that many weeks ago to buy the weight near where the mayor Seattle said no gatherings of more five hundred people are allowed.
And then the Plaza days later. Maybe your fill the plaza said. No gatherings of five hundred
a more in another mayors, were saying on your people more and characteristic of the situation.
Like this with so many alarms he paused
things, and especially the absence of central guidance from the CDC.
Where are they say at point? Acts we don't
gathered more than ten people. That means
at the mercy of the mayor of you: don't have to make it up based on whatever his their information into input.
The issue of masks witches
become sort of the National warm except nobody at the White House, press briefings every where's, the master.
Does anything other than crowd together for the microphone. But that's not it aside, rubbing houses
for the somebody else's knows all the but other than that actually think people end up then concluded
that yes, it's better to wear masks that you are not inadvertently.
Breathing and viruses that may be an environment from other people and that if you are in fact they do not reading out viruses? I confess somebody also
and those kinds of changes are evolution in policy is not uncommon, immense. He always wore the uncomfortable things we do acting.
Using. That is. Somebody announced that, as we learn, more policies will change and will continue to change. I to ask questions one
Is this the new normal? How much of this are? We gonna have to get used to as a permanent alteration in our daily routines? So
this is going to be around for a lot longer than we live. We may have hoped for and it may be returned. So what are the boys I've looked at this question.
If you're, eighty years old, you are likely to spend the rest, you
Why? For seventy five or whenever it is the rest of your life living in this kind of very unusual abnormal
um. Yes, you gotta get used to it if you're, twenty five or forty five, you so many gaps,
have to get used to what may be a very long process, but you
I'll be around when the light at the end of the tunnel sort of speakers that actually appears that will get back to a much more.
Normal way of life? So special
I knew you are and what, but you see was the fact
Is that in order to get used to this going out for quite some time, and as the old Europe goes, you hope to the light at the end of the tunnel is not the might have an uncommon train. The direct and he asked yes, said, there's a light at the end of it,
how about are really really long time. I saw my last question and you promised at leave us with something hopeful. Could you bundles out from this also gives us a gap? Is something to think about is what I really think that this is possible? Maybe switched off
I'm calling it possible. It may be that we come out of this entire experience with a whole new idea of the necessity for international cooperation. There are certain problems
that are not going to be solved by any individual, already individual and any specific country that dealing with the prevention of pandemics, which are global phenomenon-
Requires a whole lot more international cooperation, information sharing and research cooperation than we ve been used to, but
Maybe spill over so if we want to talk about
How we need international cooperation for the young and damage we also really needed for the climate crisis
Are we really need to make sure that we are preserving biodiversity and, I think
for really lucky and we work at it. We could change
the dynamics of how countries interact with each other and end up collectively as our own weight friend cross
one, what I'm sure seven. You said many times yourself, be all that generally or were living on. This ties speck of nothing in this
asked the universe and the fact that we have these global planetary problems that need to be solved. We need to get our act together and and do it
if we want to really want to really survive the most hopeful thing I have yet to hear about the corona virus that it my purpose, for
future challenges that require international global cooperation. So why don't we
on that note around. Until
didn't honoured to have even call you a friend we ve known each other for a few decades now, through Carl Sagan. Actually, I think was YAP through there
collaboration. That was exactly was, and so thanks for, I know, you're in high demand. Writing
Abed and shone upon the news. I'm delighted you
little bit your day for us here and start out thanks for joining us,
my pleasure there is always the again. This has been start talking near the grass taste in your personal astrophysicist. As
ways, and perhaps now more than ever,.
Transcript generated on 2020-07-20.