Neil Tyson and Eugene Mirman explore how salt has been a critical ingredient in history and the development of civilization. Now extended with 12 minutes of Neil and Bill Nye in the Cosmic Crib talking about evolution, Ivan the Gorilla and how bees fly.NOTE: StarTalk All-Access subscribers can listen to this entire episode commercial-free. Find out more at https://www.startalkradio.net/startalk-all-access/
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, Commercial free, some industries with many questions to be answered. We find ourselves searching for those answers as the very fabric. Yesterday's science and society are converging all working woody. Recently, the domain, the brains tat, goes into grandma's. Half ass do when they get
welcome to start already on your host yielded Rasmussen, astrophysicist Numeric, easing of natural history. We also serve as the director of a hidden planetarium, my co host this week Is Eugene, Merman, hello? You haven't you here, I love being here Neil. Thank you. Sometimes I go into your place. We have your Eugene murmuring, comedy festival exerted. Sometimes you comin studio with us. I do sometimes I will travel uptown good to get you out of here. How to your digs down there. You know this we show topic is all about sought. I now smokers you rather not yet the listeners dont know I was informed before yeah we're talking about solve this white stuff that we all take for granted and I regret and I think it's amazing change lives that was a currency.
I am probably we we're gonna get into that. This whole show will orbit the subject of salt great, and really cheap. Now I remember when I was a kid going to restore sought was like the cheapest. Thing on all shells? You get a button, I shall hold. I am, do get a toolbox us all for ten cents and I thought the canopy ever again out ten cents worth and still she even more than that. Today's ruins would be furious to hear this. I, like that, seems reasonable, and you know in the past, with rare and valuable commodity, a strategic commodity. Gavin people use it as a weapon, maybe not the money. The one thing they sent, one of the fourteen thousand use is not one of them was that you can put on the wounds of
who's the guy in the movie, someone who I don't know what I mean. I know this ignores second or, as you put it on drug, nor is it went on to his memory. This isn't it sort of clean? Does it out like a cleaning power? Was it's it's it's a disinfect another. It said antibiotic Emmy prevents the growth of microbes we were all about ruin the whole thing, just as they were on the same page software we normally think of in chat about his table. Salt is sodium chloride. Sodium is an element of the periodic table. They remember the mysterious chart of boxes in your chemistry, alas, chlorine is also there. You put him together. Sodium chloride by the way sodium is highly explosive. Yeah it in Rio given the presence of water and korean
These will kill you separately really and together. Some of the most they distillation is that it will give you put sodium in water. It were essential you you want to get out of the room when you do that, because creating reacts violently with water. No, I'm listening is off doing that. It's hard to get a slap MR sodium from closely associated Breakin somewhere. I dont I've never looked I'd I'd, I don't know a stuff to keep suit your ear swimming pools clean and it's it's quite the descent Can you put it together, its table, salt and it's a testament to the east. Ordinary diversity of what the elements of the periodic table do for us when, together as as molecules in milan- do you a chemistry is a whole different thing from atomic chemistry it's a whole other world, and I doubt it. We recognise the same world, but different different ETA has been ruled out. Different rules- and I haven't you know as an astrophysicist every one of these elements in stars, therefore-
in the centres of high my stars. It later explode spreading their enriched guts across the galaxy of which you then make planets and people and salt. Just in case you were wondering I was gonna stay as it is the stables all the foreman explode. Start. And yes, it is good to know the ingredients of table salt come from exploding. Stiva recipes. Does they one quarter? Spoon exploding, STAR So what we got here, you know what's so funny about salt. Is that You know you gotta farms, out of you, ve been on a farm if your city person, but like anything further salt licks. When I was a kid I said view who'd want to do that. You know, and so these these huge herbivores that we sustain on farms. They they did it Aids off, they ve got a lick sought as part of their daily diet, and said. Universe of this topic, too big for just me and what I decided to do was bringing an expert
to my office. Marker Lansky is the author of the book. Sought a world history to be confused with that movie, eventually, legitimately and we're not so, let's check out this clip of my first cliff of my interview with him just to find out what what role salt is played in human history It is hard for anyone to day to imagine saw was so highly valued as it once was. What happened we are always sought today, sawdust twenty five it's in the store, while to begin with salt, didn't have Great deal value because most civilization started off being hunter gatherers. Gatherer is that agricultural, and sure gatherers, Joe really need solved. The basis of the importance of salt is that we all need sodium chloride for bodies to function, but if you're on a
mostly red meat diet. You will get all of the south you need without having any additional south. But then what happened is that civilizations move to agriculture now, there's a whole bunch of problem solved is needed for caring for those properties in the soil is needed to raise livestock, because other mammals dislike ass, need sodium chloride and before the age of refrigeration and freezing. You really couldn't have a food trade without salt. You know. If you are a dairy farmer and you produce milk and butter things I got you could sell. So the immediate area but even there in the summer time, but a few made cheese which is preserved with salt
he had thrown on the wagon and shepherd all over. The world same was true of meat and fish and vegetables, and basically the entire food trade depended unsolved. And in entry industrial society. That was a very large part of trade. So is not an exaggeration to say that without solves you couldn't have an international economy you're saying is back, then anything Who'd you ate from afar was sought. Before, and food or anything that was shipped any kind of distance was salty and people used to eat a lot more salted food than they do now, and it was much saltier bacon, for example the bacon. It now. I started salted in a token sort of way, because it after the refrigerator, but if you're gonna saw bacon so that it can survive without being shelled, it has to be much saltier than that, so saw was a preserve it.
Assault was the leading way to preserve food. There were some other things, such as smoking, Smoking doesnt work that well, unless you use a little salt, also sharing in the ground, which also needs a little salt. So most anything Try to do to preserve food involves all agent. You barrier food in the grounds, idealize yourself. That guy sounds like a salt is, I think I believe that is important, but it's like a little suspicious and their other sources, such as sodium chloride. Theirs I saw Peter is a major ingredient, gunpowder and other explosives baking. So I was hoping that South could be a weapon sodium bicarbonate, I'm it goes on and on and on, but we gotta end this first segments we're coming back and when we come back I've Especial guess who can speak to the role of salt in ancient com,
This is starting to ring. The sequence reveal start. I welcome back. You start out from your house near the restoration and welcome again to Eugene Vermin, Jeanne, you, you tweet Eugene murmured:
you remember how do you Jeanne murmur might have been beaten by just that? It's just that you dream! Oh, yes, it's too bad cycling listing so just today's sought, who would have thought that saw, could be so. Morton in the history of the world, and I could not this alone, and not that I don't love you Eugene Bath, but had to bring some more ammo here and so as I am assault comb laws of the American Museum of Natural history, where we have an entire department of Anthropology and guess what and there I found Peter widely peter- welcomes star talk radio thanks, very much greater because you you're an anthropologist with this specializing in North Amerika, reckon native native, not me Conseil, especially their hope in Zuni and other problems in the southwest, because don't you want because sought is not just simply put in your diets sought? Was this a strategic commodity for people who can't just go to the gross for people who can't just go to the
early well in the southwest and proposed, was very much of a commodity that people trading back and forth, and that goes back three or four thousand years soon, in particular places where they find it like a zoo salt Lake or the Manzano, say lines Easter, these Sandia mountains. They found examples, a vote that saw three or four miles away and the archaeological record hundreds of miles so they they would go, get it absolutely and, for example, HOPI. Sir still have a soul pilgrimage that they go on to the bottle, as in two thousand a day to this day yesterday, one of us will tell them about cost very recently. They used to go to the bottom of the Grand Canyon, and I still go to as any salt lake to get insult. So this right, because with those issues open. Your geology know you might ass well, where does saw come from ways? one way is salt water right, you get it
Atwater either a huge legs. They had become salty over the years or ocean and all you need the corral off a piece of it, and the sun, so the realities of the Oh, I see what you say you you may think you'd, let a tie bringing some water and it comes out, but you trash some of the water ass. It comes in and some lakes or large enough that they became salty over the years. The salt lake, for. Why doesn't take root area? Hands exceed lay so their ways actually make it any my interview with more kalinowski that word flooding into the shop. He tells us that some story about how you find salt and now make it and where you get it from so, let's check it out. The chief, is most efficient way to make solve. If you live in it the climate is to just sea water, a damn it off into pounds and let us sit there in the sun and eventually all the water will evaporate,
a year? But you have a lot of withholding tax, which rotate, so there is always one nets. Crystallization. This is a very efficient, very always making solve that hasn't changed in thousands of years and choir, very little investment and attracts beautiful birds. In all salt, is he's off now the majority of table salt- is he sought, which is something Americans don't understand, because in America it's not Americans, mostly Rock south, is only a few places left that produce safe salt in the? U S that wasn't always true, but for one reason or another, most of the sea saw places have gone out of business and Donald know the difference between rock sultans. He thought, how do you make it Salt engineer seawater to Morocco Oh, you need a place underground that has solved and shovel. So you mind this. All yes, yes, or where they stand
Ways of doing it, salt deposits. Under the earth. You can either go down there and mine it like you at any other mineral or you can flooded and pump the water out which will come out his bride and then evaporate the brain, like you would see, sought out. So what you saying geologically is that the Mai Noble sought was once do you want a deposit where the water it evaporated unless something, mostly These are all places that were ocean at one time and there is huge deposits in North America and Europe and an Asia there's salt under most of the great lakes, area going all the way from the plains, to upstate New York remind me of the grid salty or not. At what point? Are you big enough to become salty well bigger than the great lakes I think at the point at which year an ocean? This is something
ever been completely worked out about. Why Caesar salty it's a little bit mysterious, but the great lake. Although there are solved beds under the earth, around the great lakes. The great lakes of freshwater, so pure white I got you in the show from the Americans, even natural history, Europe. We hope the Indians would so they increases by drawing up salt water, you telling me they actually found salt in the mountains. Will I, at the bottom of the Grand Canyon and then of the SALT Lake that Sir, not too far away from any problem about fifty miles. Over grace, all my computer, that one that says seem further lies solely to others. This is a junior version that was also called softly. It's called visa code, they had an embarrassing urban story to say I was flying to California and we're flying
you talk, but I wasn't thinking that at the time are just looking out the window ass though this huge white area- and I said to myself, I have had to fight a salt residue like from of lake that might have been there. That looks like us. It was worth course with oversaw, except I deduce from first principles of science, but I was obviously that I mean at once. I thought about it, but I was there. I was pump in my mind geological knowledge into you fly or they can grant annually. This is a very, very big, almost grant candidate as it is so other great deposits. So we have obviously grace I'm you time you have your Europe softly to conversion right and, of course, the dead Sea and Israel, but what you can set up in? Yes,
Those are the events that have you tried walking on them. I mildly we is weird I can walk. I want to speak their own food, put into thinking my manager, no one other than was on it, but I, but its purely scientific you chose not to do so, would get Is that, of course, is how the deaf seek, as there are no fishes in it, but this or a measure of the fact that didn't have microscope because of their microbes everywhere. Reverie have liquid water in the world, since a scientific limitation that a guy called the dead Sea and also Of course you are the innocent you're Detroit four hundred million years ago, there is in Heaven Commission at the time was warm There is a shallow see when the warder dried up it left when the world's largest salt apart
and so mining continues to this day in the English right near the drawing near to strike. Yes, you shall go down more than a thousand people over surface just to get the soft I mean. This is extraordinary that the extent the people go to to recover this stuff, so so you're you're HOPI tribes, so they they would get the sort they knew they needed. Assault. Yanks actually and they were dead. They work went off on long expeditions, sir, which were really ritual, pilgrimages, a sound and respect. He too were to those two places I mentioned. They have to go through all sorts of ritual preparations and its associated with an initiation and so on. Hey it's a very arduous tracked down to the bottom. The grand kind was somebody had to somebody had to go. Therefore, to begin with and find it right and then they passed informational under your thing is basically like a sob
it's like a few lines of thinking it. Now I am going to tell people that we use bitterness gift of aren't exactly them after another eighteen dollars, packets, assault, exactly where the information that you are referring to was widely known and shared among prehistoric peoples in the greatest South West, and they all knew where those places were and they have sacrificed to their their salt deities associated with those places goddesses gods to sacrifices, to make it a data. Whenever is my first time ever, there is the first time ever, etc. Are gonna be here later when I think about what you just said he might have had just invented that fine. So I mean I've my list years long about all these cultures going back thousands of years, the Chinese and six. I was in BC when harvest dry beds, salty grannie pronouncedly you can you can I lay
you're asking me no neo closed since vine leaves gypsies, the Phoenicians, the Romans, the cows were mining rock sought in the austrian House as far back as seven hundred BC him escape. This goes on and alone Peter guides global? So I guess me is how people know that they need the salt. Why did they know? They need the salt, but the people? getting scurvy for not having vitamin c didn't know they needed vitamin c they found out trial and urge everyone dying, and then it's like those areas was actually we're. Gonna wind down this segment, but when we come back with learn more about we're, so confirming what effect is on the history of cultures in the world is a GEO political influence oh no bounds, I'm here
as usual, Merman my favorite stand a comedian one of my favorite six phthalates, and here I just Maritime Museum and Nationalists and we'll be right back start talking secret. For you gonna. Consider singing all of the ads on this show, Just one way to get out a hearing there go to patriarch arms last started, talk and the porters at the five dollar level or higher to listen the star talk ad free. You can download all current episodes into your favorite park has player and net. I hear another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not happy.
Dear me, saying. If you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just sing it I mean just SAM. And sat down to earth start back. You start radio restoration host. You know you can find star talk on the web and start or radio that not only that you can download it says I tunes podcast, we in the twitter verse what other handle, but, of course, at STAR Talk, radio,
cause this. We Eugene Merlin aging good to have you back and studio, and you know we're orbiting the show on the subject of salt. Yes, an interview that I conduct with marketer Lansky, author of salt, a world history and we got into discussing that's that's a book about everything about sorts of you. Never thought existed, always true, but still have outside the secret Assize secrets of working title of that both? So he now discuss some surprising cultural beliefs Having saw let's check it out. I have spent a lot of time working in Haiti, so I already knew that salt was used to kill his own base, which might be secures armies, are killed. Zombies noted here zombies because all takes away evil Ok, so in a ritualistic way saw him If somebody has been Zambia, five, you can bring the back to normal with salt and how, You apply this off sprinkling arm with a soldier
not sure I have to say I haven't done it, but there is this situation, with salt, preventing evil and curing evil, because it stops rotting, so in japanese theatre, the stage is sprinkle with salt to chase away baths. That said, there are lots of examples of solid use, for that solved in many cultures is brought to a new home for good luck with the salt over the shoulder. The problem with spilling sought is a middle, Something comes up a lot and Judaism and and that is related the ability of sought to preserve things. What seals a bargain so, for instance, in Judaism, solve is a symbol of ceiling, was how the covenant the agreement between God and Jews. So if you spill south, it's like the covenant has been broken:
and so you have to do something about that. To get rid of it check it over your shoulder. If you look closely in the painting of the last supper, you will see that there is a spilled salt seller on the table by Judas renewed that table scale so too interesting details in it using other salt table the lad. I didn't know that you could cure zombies with I wonder how is ever been tried black practically well plus I mean, but it's good to know because of all the apocalypse as the asteroids, and we can t an asteroid virus, we can find a cure, but does omby apocalypse. That was going to be an unbelievable one felt- author, I was uses resolved. There was really hoping that somebody would think that sought to get you pregnant can have everything we haven't studio, one of our spare Especial guess Peter widely he's a curator of ethnology. I think, as the official title,
where every american museum, unnatural histories across department colleague, of mine. Actually, and thanks for coming to any, is an expert on thank here. The culture, the HOPI tribes and other sort of south West native american cultures and yawned, and youth and patently salt was a big deal to them. Absolutely ass, epic, since they have to go so far to get it to a big it had it she had a great deal of importance in their culture is more than just the nutritional value of the stuff. Exactly so became symbolically valued and thereon deity who are named after south there? There's salt goddesses insult gods as others have some salt day. I think about what would they walked? Did you say fifty miles or more fifty miles and more the to the distance. The grand Canyon from the HOPI Maces is about a hundred miles. Just move there in any way
Americans were known to be nomadic railways? That's right up, there is done. Their asylum move towards saw was usually that's. That's it that's a good plan there. There are, of course, native peoples who live at the bottom of the Grand Canyon like you have to buy, in the past it at night I was just so obvious- if somebody for everybody's, as the lobby move there, then you get rid of this being a spiritual, meaningful knows: that's why we live Disneyworld, we walk or would have no meaning right, ass, the pilgrimage reduce it, meaning exactly there. You got this goes way back. I mean it was a commodity for wealth. Was it also commodity among the native American? Try absolutely so even today, you'll find Zuni who brings Zuni salt to HOPI, and they will exchange. For the same measure of ground. Blue cornmeal back a long, long way again
symbolic thing, you're doing. Well, I it's it's a new nutritional thing too, but it represents the contributions that each have to each other's. I haven't found Kafka during this is more like a spur, spiritually recognition of each other's value. More than his leg, we need blue corn me we were the only way we well that's right and as a special celebration of this particular kind of self Hobbes call it by particular term bar, which means literally water salt and, as that, some they value more highly than what you get from Kafka, through the through the lagoon and the very can our whole the ditch? That's all built. And and end the venetian government control the price and export of soft fruits ports through the through the lagoon. The theory can. I was called the ditch. That's all built because was financed by attacks on site it is amazing to see you go down this list.
An end in the Roman salted, their vegetables and hence the word salad, salad for salt and and and and- and salary, comes from the result. You now average words as long as they get Illuminati conspirator everywhere in history. Sound was there with their voting for the residents of when we come back more of my interview with marker landscape, the author of salt and my in studio, guess Peter rightly
starter brought them back to start the grass I'm here. If my covers Eugene Merman, an especial in studio, guest, Peter Whiteley he's a curator of ethnology. If the Americans Zeman natural history and today's topic is sought, sought as it as a cultural GEO political force. And I ve slotted in here and interview that I had in my office with more kalinowski and he wrote the book salt of world history, and you tell me how saw contributed to the science of geology, which I have thought about it in retrospect. Clearly that would be the case if you care, where you're salt is learn about what on earth did you get it there? And what do you know do to get it from the earth and also what role salt? What works? What role do
all played in devaluing salt itself, but the Czech another clip from that interview with Mark Command The whole science of geology grew up. I'm salt Geology was basically the science of finding soft ass. How does need for geologists to help you find solve, compare with the need for geologists to help people fine or any other valuable or well is very much the same thing. It was very valuable, and that's why this science grew up looking for it until the beginning of the twentieth century, and then a discovery was made that there was a relationship tween, salt and oil. The reason for this relationship is that A solid deposits of salt, which called solved domes, are impenetrable organic material that pushes up again saw
go any further and be trap there, and that's how I was made when this was discovered originally in Pennsylvania and then in Texas. The size of geology became about looking for salt so that you could find out and Actual all of these places in the Middle EAST, where salt homes have been discovered in found oil today geology is very much focus on finding oil, but that only values the oil, doesn't devalue the soft well, it did devalue the solve because its stepped up the search for salt, and it was discovered that was just much money. More salt in the earth than anybody had ever imagined. Just these huge huge deposits, I mean for Ireland across Northern England, into Scandinavia from Eastern France. The cross, Germany and Austria into Poland in narrow from Detroit to Syria,
here, just huge, so that for one thing less than the value of thought, but at the same time, refrigeration and freezing were being developed, which is actually my next book, I'm working on a book, a biography of Clarence, Bird's, eye, Clara's birds, I ruined assaulted by divine think commercial freezing, so Peter these native american tribes. Today part of assault was national, but also to was it was also to preserve food over the internet, and but there are other ways to preserve today. In your you study the relatively recent history of these tribes, why they still do if the old fashioned way just put condo and given the refrigerator,
Well, I like the way it tastes they light of that particular kind of solid us talking about, but because they have many other methods of preserving needs and fish, and so for them in the past, as was in the presidency, get get dm, eaten smoking or dry it clams and salmon and halibut on on the North West Coast, they spend term many hours, drawing these in smoke houses and so for specific, especially for that purpose, I hereby have emerged from the Pacific Northwest the others, a whole culture of the dried driving and its great unease very high calorie actually, and so you don't need much of it too, to keep going through the day. So when I find interesting is just solve had all these secondary effects on the rest of the conduct of cultures and that's extraordinary and- and What I want, I wonder, though, is it- has all been dead. Are you in the in the native him?
community because of this the full access others daddy still operating in the culture. Ladies, you spoke of an early sound assault, those in Europe unless they're all over France and Ireland, and those like like that, like the military map of Napoleon, assault and also in Detroit Lead, they have something even if itself Napoleon's last stand right. I think that traditionally oriented people still pay attention to those things and again they do value the native salt, more than the commercial, so very much so into the present. Is it? Is it actually better quality? I think it, it's better and hope you talk about it as some Pasqua, much more flavorful, much much sweeter than the commercial salt resolve. What you speak, hoping
It is a little bit. I would use, may cling on, don't you as the Russian and we have the last of several clips of my interview with Mark Calamity, the author of salt, a world history where he talks about salt, not simply as being important for your survival, but it was so for survival- that, in fact it became somebody's been married, became a strategic commodity. Let's check it out Tell me the history of war result. Is that a book unto itself in many ways actually, because assault was also used to progress. Wombs army they didn't have sought, was in trouble, but you get example is likely Union army in the civil war. The union army had a strategy of preventing the south from getting salt. They couldn't get. Are they solve because there was an embargo, and wherever they found a solid work, they destroy them. Sometimes they went back repeatedly and destroy them so that the south was in.
Desperate shortage of solved during the entire civil war, which I created a food shortage in winter time, so the control of salt became a major military tactic. Yes, and salt has often been regarded as strategic in british government policy. Tells you something about the british government. They were always are concerned with salt as a strategic com, today than they were with it as a commercial commodity. Queen Elizabeth, the first warned, the english people of their dangerous dependency quote dangerous. Dependency on friends. He sought so soft of yes, aid is oil of today. That's right, you know, when you look, salt in oil there's a great lesson is actually one of the secret reason
I wrote the book, but what you think is valuable and what you're willing to fight and die for is it really valuable value? It is an illusion and it shifts of the time- and I am absolutely certain that some day oil will be worth about what salt is worth today. Some wishful thinking there it was possible that doesn't mean at the time you shouldn't go two tons of wars over oil and salt. I like I'd, forgotten that, yes, you can. You sought a quarter eyes rooms and, worse Rambo did that I still do it. If I get anyone nine fight, are you alright gives themselves? Nor was it Rambo nano? He actually took the gunpowder out of bullet. United in the wound. In aside to Cornerwise wound that was, there was the man We think that he did. I wouldn't do that, would solve on it. I'm not a picnic lunatic, so this goes way back for them for military, the roman army was sometimes paid and soft and the art of origin, the world south of the word salad our salary, salad, salads, Oliver, all of it,
yeah and an egg and Sally was a very salty leading and of course the expression is he works is worth is weighed in salt and which are because when I first learned of salt, I heard that if I gave you high blood pressure and killed you so someone said he's the salt of the earth who'd. You must have had four percent. I came way out of out of sync with when when all of this was the oldest vocabulary was established, and, of course, one of one of the major causes of several, of course. But what major causes. The french revolution was the salt tax. We never talk about that no picture it. You can't even think about it. Victor it did. You know that the french prisons were full of people convicted of salt smuggling, salt smuggling. I was trying to avoid being assault taxes the internet today also tea, was also very important. I mean. You probably reasonable. Vote was the first thing they did at the end of the revolution was to spend this all tax and, of course, famously portray.
In the film Gandhi, but body actually did was one of his steps to fight for in these independence, Great Britain, was there who is concerned about its policies concerning salt, and then the heat was that in March to the sea where he made salt without the oversight of the british, and there was viewed as almost it is as a strong act of defiance. And here we look at what you do is making saw. Would you care british If I was has resolved whoever cancel controls, the salt controls the world as a movie, I'm going to be working on so Peter we're running short on time. Any any concluding comments you have about this whole business. Well, I think that that concept to stop being a strategic resources is very widely present. I am thinking, for example, of some societies in Papua New Guinea, where there are specialised salt produces,
makers? They have in they'll, be we'll have a high role and in the local hierarchy, and they get to be responsible for trading salt a controlled fashioned among different groups of neighbouring tribes? So it is still going on it's still, where absolutely still there and Anne and work as it would be interesting if oil one day became the salt of the past. Yes, and I can't wait for a new thing to replace it that we go to war over. I just hope I get the controller, that's it for this segment of star talk, radio. When we come back I'll, be in the cosmic creep to talk about evolution with bill, nigh the signs
who wrote a best selling book on the subject. Called undeniable stated is starter, bill. Thanks for coming to cost so good to be an agreement. We cruel start talking just my off this code from my office as a hidden planetarium here, don't I a recent recent expatriate from LOS Angeles, now live in downtown and hand. Yes, sir, give her walking to New York to be here. I came here by bicycle riding through Manhattan,
going me against. We were that green or lie that the bicycle faster I can be, and I like the like. The challenges like a video came stakes are really high. We up of your game where you could end up dead, not not really what the graduation making the best. So I would thank you. And tell a book is undeniable and I I I was happy to read a galley of the book and offer a blurb for the book. Very
I suppose your excellent mad read my blog. You have a copy. I haven't. I want a real meddler. Little listen just a centre stage here. Here's my blurb for undeniable, the subtitle. If it is evolution in the science of creation, my blurred and I'm I'm honour that it was the top blurb and ended, is the shortest one eyes source. I never want to be the longest blurb on a book jack ahead now with his charming breezy narrative style bill empowers the reader to see the natural world as it is not as some would wish. He does it right and as I expected he does it best. I love you man, it's really nice for my heart and soul of the Son of God. So what I like about the book was that, unlike many other books that try to be expostulatory in some scientific topic or another, you didn't even go.
There. You were just sitting down with you on the couch and you're. Telling still uncle bill is telling stories loose the thing about first person stories. First of all, this is how humans, fine patterns and remember things based on stories. You did this Cosmo Series, I've heard of full of store full authority. Storytelling was a big part of that is very important and then the other just feature of this. If I say in the book, I remember when I met the gorilla named Ivan the reader can't say: no, you don't yeah. I guess I do remember when I met I've been so that gives it a property that that's a great sends to buy way well yeah. I, like many readers of this book Ivan, was a mountain growing.
I don't know how many more most readers of the body I well. It's not clear how many non growers have enjoyed my book would Ivan was an influential guy for me, because he you could tell that he was unhappy in me or not. He was bored, I think, is in the two coma enclosure and common washing, but he had a kind of going off your pretty good when he was in a letter, yet girl guerrillas digging his growing this, and you can tell his posture in his manner, but disagree with that. You observed in two different suits through different zoos. Are one of them? Was it really is a message from the old the battle? That is the kind of facility where planetary apes derive yeah right where they break out and take over. So my claim in this in this one passage, which is a bit of a digression here.
Is that your posture, your gate year, your manner is deep within us. No matter is commonly Giorgio. You had a special capacity to observe this being a primate yourself. Well, unless the other thing, then we we change the subject to RIP November is a gorilla, the Woodland Park, as we record, I know you had all these primate relationship with debts to their two than my old Boston sure where he would fit, and naturally we thought about last year in every chapter but which we held back by the wisely, I would say, leaders and I, but the whip was looks at you. He sits next to the glass and he's got an acre pick. A number he's got many he's, gotta heck, they're out there. We could wander around and be growing negro things and do so, but he sits right by the glass any stares at you stairs
What's the deal man what's the deal, I can my people are behind glass and look at more big and strong package. You you're here is skin I want to bring you over my me and I'm a vegetarian, but this is the reason is that This is a thought bubble: guerrillas either yeah. You can see it in his eyes, and so I met an actress who please the rang a ten in the the movies. Otherwise older rang it in and she probably go supported by our gas, goes to the woodland part. Two is there, but they rang again women, for example the Seattle Zoo they take a meeting and they look at each other. They paint together. They do things ass. I asked her as vit still air and she said.
Selves then, can succeed. They report reproduce more than are gonna live by humans, dont really. Well. There seven point two billion others right now: our natural proclivities inside it wasn't living things, make more copies of themselves than can succeed. We periphery more than are going to live, but humans. Don't really do that. Well, they're, seven point two billion of us right now and our natural proclivities, and so it was a time actually when you have seven kids in three words,
There is a technical one. Important point. Many many many more eggs or fertilized human eggs or fertilized and become people, and this is an important point when you're gonna start passing laws and prosecuting people based on their eggs, not attaching so its issue is an important thing to understand and by the way, the religions who make certain claims about their understanding for consent, wouldn't have anything to say. If it weren't for nuts precise, a microscope, then the other thing another thing about evolution is very important. For people to understand is sexual selection, that is to say, we don't. We know it's like sexual flax. You people all the things you have to define the show. I think that would not only in its selection within a species, and why do you do it? What's the point, if your dandelion or see Jelyotte Barnacle
why do you bother with? I want you to see pop yourself off like any self? Respecting bacteria have never been a barnacle would have been a big change for you, and so these are just important things to understand, and then I go on about the value of sexual selection is apparently the best theory right now is your enemy out there. If your Mehta Organism Multi sell your organism, your enemy is not lions and tigers and bears, which can of course, can be troublesome. Your enemy is germs and parasites thats. What will kill you and to show you how deep this fear is within us? Lickety ball out quite reasonably tariff terrified and so alone
this line understand the process of evolution, allows us to craft medicines and medical procedures that allow our species to succeed, allows our species to succeed specifically to us and to our crew, and farm animals. Everything else that we depend on evolution is the main idea in all biology and bird. Your title is very confrontational. Well, oh here's, an account of every is undeniable we have made me aside. We as exactly right, you're, ready like have a fight. Yes, but by the book, does not read that way, but the title does a thank you. I think the book is very breezy and informative at the same time, and in those two words are hardly ever in the same sense, I love you man, so we did have. I did step
side for a fight with the guy in Kentucky, and I took a Mannheim lectern director, the head of the answers in Genesis patient, size, museum, Maria yeah, ok and the Word museum. I'm always always have difficulty where there are no artifacts there. Ok, let's just animatronic, robots and end of some dire Amazon Party, Greece to complete the import. And there I think, our unabashed about that and where they were, they may have cross. It is now you have to testify to your christian face, even though, by the way the debate was but when I had my understanding of bibles about the old testament, Hazel Sky never go wrong, and then Jesus Jesus right when spoken in western
and then the other thing is. You can't be gay Campi homosexual to work there, and you can do that. Apparently, if you have a private or they're they're trying to make it so you can do it, but you can't take tax dollars and do so will see what happens to them. So you book, like you, happy with how it's come out now. Men is very pleased with it and get every chapter is a story of some kind or another s. Wrath sets out when I see like get to know you better by how right it s no talking. I worked really hard on it. Everybody in your opening sentence is what we say, and this is true. I do remember very well watching bumble, bees and just thinkin. I mean a bumblebee as a small thing by human standards, but compare the size of their wings to how small they are how in the world is this possible, furthermore enriched? Please believe it or not? They stated categorically. The bumble bee should be unable to fly
They are aerodynamic misfits, and I remember, even as a kid thinking dude Mr Ripley, their flying The problem is gonna, be with theory, not the b, and it's interesting. It wasn't even to pick a number fifteen. Twenty years ago, the people really understood how bees. Why is quite an extraordinary motion and be wings, are very different, structurally from bird wings, very different, structurally from bat wings. Yet they have converged.
On solving the problem of flight, and this is another evolutionary principle which I cover in the book. So all the big evolutionary elements are there, but told, through this storytelling style that some people would acquire comfort level. I think, with the time hoping and maybe go onto more advanced books would you imagine, yes sure are just have a deep understanding and especially in appreciation for the process that was discovered by Russia, Wallace and Charles Darwin. They didn't make it up, they found it in nature, and that is a worthy thing and fills me with reference to know that we are part of this. Extraordinary process goes back four and a half billion years in speaking of four and a half billion. I am very proud of the timeline. I think I have a good way to try to get your head around deep time deep time time deeper than anything. The human experience has recorded. Yes,
thinking of time we're done here bill thanks, revealing the cosmic thinking has always been like you say I bring greetings from the entire start, talking a single common basis, laid stations like down on my old job, the organs which you can listen to start. Our commercial free joint start talk on Patria for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com slap star talk, radio
Transcript generated on 2020-01-24.