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This is why today we are back in the flight facing a pitcher last month could not be decided without has more speed. Then Action campaign walked on earth. Well, If you look at things in a different way, well get different results and the people who have done just that Then Limburg and Travis Sancho Co. Authors of the M Bp machine is superb book that says, light On how player development techniques are taken, his ball into the future and leaving money. Bah way, way behind and towards that we will have the astrophysicist. Who is a baseball fanatic. And his, I suppose, sluice yes, our dear friend Meredith Wills will be here to explain why this she's baseball is doing what

it's doing. This is gonna, be a great shout. I salute pumped to talk to these two guys, truck introduce offers guests here. Instead, an via Skype, or I should say that the other way around the authors of M Vp machine how baseball's new nonconformist are using added to build better players off Travis subject and Limburg? Gentlemen? Thank you. Being here yeah. I welcome your happiness without a doubt. First of all, our congratulations on the book very well received dreamily excited are the baseball nerds and they are aplenty there, there are. Probably the nervous of sports would be baseball. And you guys are a nerd gods at this point. So so so so now we have a mantra.

Complying with cyanide ahead with jokes and geeks color when at last I think the envy pay machine might be our buyback. That is, it might just be. This might be the perfect cross section, ip sense of where geeks and jocks collide, so, first of all, just Jessica background on both you guys, you both very accomplished authors both worked with at one of my replaces at five thirty eight. I think Travis still there right, I'm still employed Ok, how? How does this come about? Have what what makes you guys say? Hey, let's take a look at this: let's do a deep down and, let's figure out what the next Incarnation of the whole data fusion with a baseball have come about. How are we

and then we and then we learned TAT, we were each working on something and we decided to team up because we knew each other a little bit and we figured we'd be even better if we combine forces. So I think this stood out to us as the subject of a baseball book and twenty nineteen the baseball book and twenty nineteen is player development. That's what this book is about about apply, information and technology to improve players because Travis, I noticed that suddenly players in the middle of their careers, sometimes towards the end of their careers or so we thought, were making major changes and reaching levels that they'd never reach before, and these were guy who should have been at the points of their careers where you expect them to be declining had. Instead they were peeking and we were thinking what is going on here? You guys, like Rich hailed, Gaiety Martinez, Justin Turner, all these guys. You were essentially on the fringes of the game on their way out?

the game it looked like and then suddenly were catapulted to being superstars to landing these large contracts, and in every case it was because there was new information. There is new technology. There is new coaching techniques that they were a. To adopt and implement to get better in a way that until very recently wasn't possible in baseball. So how Travis? the numbers were lying. In the sense of your career. This point shouldn't be telling me this this alliance and if it isn't, which it obviously wasn on earth and where do you go see? Why Do we need to cause? I was why do we need to tell the story? Why is it so important, I think, for each of us we can avoid under this book thinking or this arab baseball, Thinkin talent was sort of fixture career, follow this aging curve and all the history of player, career, simpler agent. Aurex showed us that you should

decline under thirty five years old and you should be loose skill on your production. Your career should be now come into account. It was, but we notice I heard your bed mentioned. Some of them are used to report on its a baseball gets Bergen, It required borrowed bird and twenty thirteen season and she was at an It really should be in the quiet, but instead he was having as best year in think was steroids or performers and answers. It was because he dramatically changes that ball profile, and that is something that I thought talent was, could effect and the sea bird could of change, how we swung how he had each of the way. The ball back more than a year that on the ground and then clear could do that as well It is really open my eyes and then it's not your. Turning careers as one aspect that, with its birder, doesn't hurt her and then at the other end of the agent curve. What can young players do with this it adopted earlier? How can they change their futures? Are true trajectory so

this whole idea that Europe we flipped on its head. What we thought talent meant what it was, how its created and that's a very exciting. To be running about this and really the stony infancy of this movement earlier. So, let's let's take a step back very quickly because, as we talk about their development, the what really talking about is the infusion of data into a sport and the utilization of that data in such a way that it informs the player in the coach. How to make changes to improve so based Bobby. As such. Statistical, Hamath, we'll just love all the stats. How many times that this one spit at the play before he hits home like ok, so we understand the desert, but that's been going on for ever. I mean like

if you think about TAT, was in the hall of Fame, do or weaver ray you. It wasn't a guy with index cards, re eared. He had even branch, Ricky you're right, you know, use utilizing, stated citizens and stuff like that, so let's grab that lets backward. The player development is what is the problem russian, and why is baseball so perfect for this year? I think, for a few reasons, based buzz very well suited to statistical analysis in general, because you ve got a hundred fifty years of data and it's been covered. Chronicled as much as any human endeavour. In that time, I think so. You ve got this well information for the past ten years or so. You ve had a much higher the volume of information, because now you're not Getting the results of things you're also getting the process, your tracking every pitch, your tracking batted balls. You now try, king fielders as they move around the fields,

you're getting way more information than you ever had before. That's part of it and, of course, just the structure based budget. As the series of great events, you know better versus pitcher and it's sort of easier to separate the independents contributions than it is unsafe. Footballer party, where you have a lot of players its continuous motion, but what we here is a move from money balls which we ve all been talking about for sixteen years now, since that book came out- and you know years since the movie came out, money bow was about using this information to find players who were already out there and were good already, but for whatever reason they were undervalued by the market. Other teams just didn't realize that drawing walks was valuable, that on base percentage was more important than batting average, and so you can go get these as you are already doing things that were valuable and you'd enough to pay that much for them No one else realised that they were good, but that book and that aid he became so popular, not just in baseball, but in every other field that every

the team got on board and kind of caught up and they hired their own statistical, analyse and they were signing in training for those same players and suddenly you couldn't just fine that free talent there any more. So the way to win in this era of baseball is not really by finding talent that already exists and is just undervalued and unrecognised it building talent or creating talents, and so that's where the m says: that's what the book is about and it began. Easier and easier to do that because of the new technology that available today. Heizer. What I'm hearing you told me? Their ban is money, both told me about what had happened. I could read how good this play could be in my organization and the value I could get rid of him for whatever vis iteration of data analysis is changing a few. That's right, yeah the assets. Now we ve gone from a history. Listen says. I want to call it science fiction,

It's not it's a science fact so who have been the path find it for this influx of new technology. Could you can't just be looking at it with a human eyes in here each of these guys good explained so well, I am back to your team- will be harmful failure dumbing down on yourself. It's like yeah Sis like yet what let that guy right there that's a winner, buddy, that's a winner and then, of course, that's. Our teams is to do all right, so so part finders and exactly what take are we talking about here? what outsiders really brought this movement these ideas into based born. We highlight a number of them and the book and if you look it within the player, ranks the powers that have problems player in this book, and we argue he's push forward per development in a lot of different ways- love, and we follow his slot. You design a new kitchen, twenty eighteen and others. Idea? I think that pitched, how you discovered

It was in the past the sort of incidental logical, you picked up a ball one day or just got lucky flipping abortion way where he took science and in a process of trial, of measuring movement improvement in this pitched his eyes, and he credit this field of modern pictures and create a new picture from scratch and Perry. Technologies like the high speed at a camera which were first I'm in baseball. Shows a pitcher how his grip is respected, exactly imparts, spent on a baseball and when we think about a patch, it's one of three things: the velocity it's a spin access and spin rate that determines the shape of a pitch, but instead of just get using guesswork an open, he put, high speed camera honours, throwing arm his wrist any used wraps who could track and technology which gave up the access and spend rape and he will go after tribal in baseball this facility in Seattle, and he wouldn t- be

great impetus from scratch there and we ve all slighter development, and he knew exactly what he wanted design and he was able to monitor progress, get immediate feedback, and that's you also popular popularize. Wait a ball practices which is part of under load, overly blued training to travel a city in long Tarzan, Please think so. He is but a prickly character is some sort of a troublemaker, but I think that's also allowed him to not care. Would coach conventional coach besides allowed him he's, always to understand. Why things happen and what the science behind the logic and that's what made him such an important character does. He hasn't cared he's train with Carl Drive, my baseball, another outsider. Who is a couch drop out? He was olive garden server and even to Seattle to be closer girlfriend and Eastern Coaching youth baseball. Anyway, Why are these youth just don't seem to understand anything about money, Bobby,

I thought how it could explain the practices that are teaching so he brought his own biomechanics lab from scratch started in the eye of a home depot, and you started fundamentally asking why things workin we see a lot of new ideas could come up from individual car programmes at small division, one schools and all these ideas to be filtered opened again, for the most part suggested that you just described the scientific method. By the way I mean honestly like, if you just want to boil we're, not sure that is, that is the science, method in a nutshell, mainly may not be the most popular pitcher out their official but inquiring mind is driven a lot of progress. Now you ve just described to outliers. How big is this particular tribe, right now, where we sit in twenty nineteen away scribe it is the the end of the beginning of this movement, and we ve seen it. We ve got

from money bore ideology kind of Israel. The version that slowly crept into the game- and I think, were seen players and coaches. There is at least one or two. There's another was, I think it most bigley, clubhouses, now that I think something that's what So, there's more bacteria, and when you see players like just Turner, a Jedi, Martinez, Rachel. There's this success stories now to follow like at him of Vienna, read about power and drive line and. His father laws and real estate men hadn t he was looking for Throw so he said, hey Adam, I have this vacant storefronts and Harlem. How about you create your own bullpen? You cannot fit it with all the stuff are you. The high speed cameras allowed to last winter oughta be no kind of following Bowers footsteps created a new cut off from scratch, need not revitalized his group, we're slut were seen a build up of acceptance. I don't think we rich reach, not words, percent of cop houses, but I do think there is at least a small representation of

is believers up throughout the throughout every professional clubhouse. So is the information any different than the information has been here all along or is it the fat Dad computer allow us to see patterns in ways that we will never before able to do so or Is it the fact that, like that, like use it's a groundswell where you now have almost like a collective conscious that invaded the game, pushing in the game where wasn't being put before or is it is all about your nose out of them I don't know seriously if its multiple things, but I think it largely is that technology that now measuring things that just couldn't be measured before it really was the scout out there. Just saying that looks good to mere that doesn't look good to me and maybe being able to explain exactly why and what the fly was and how to fix the flaw. Whereas now you have this immediate form of feedback from the top

Knology? That's telling you not just what happens it's a single that's an hour, but why it happens. You know what that swing was like what was the angle. He was swinging at what was the angle that ball left the bad huh he times is that pitch spinning on its way to the plate. These were things that you really and see in many cases, and even if you couldn't see them, you couldn't record them into a large massive scale and get that data immediately when you're in a battery cage or a bullpen. So all of this I think the mechanics, the process that players used to perform That was all a lot of. It was instincts swollen going by experience and in a coach in baseball historically, have been former players that tell you became a coach, and so you would teach next generation of players, the same way that you were taught, and so there is a lot of stagnation there, and so you know these guys and say. I didn't have this information when I was coming up and I did okay, so why should I embrace it now?

So now you get these outsiders. You get these open minded thinkers, but it really is just being able to track everything being able to quantify these mechanics. You know what is a player doing? How is he swinging. How is he delivering the ball and ones? You analyze that and break it down in unprecedented detail. Then you can identify the flaws and- and once you do, you can fix them. So what so speeds we talking about with cameras, because you ve got is attracting edge. A traumatic amity frames, a second, because if I well now they have this modus, throw which you can put a sensor, sleeve rain and the mother throw uses your Iphone or your your android found. So the thing is them the most minuscule movement of my hand or a finger will completely change the pitch as much as I know about baseball. I know that much, but then I have read about the last seasons. World series with the Red Sox, the two

peaches? Is it he's Henry Henry and a guy who scares me when I looked at him for ok, you got something going on it's scary, bedabbled. They pay through sliders, but during October, didn't throw one slight red Sox using this technology. What did they say? How did they see? What did they used to make this difference right? So the red Sox have all this technology. They were talking about the cameras, the spin tracking devices I set up in the outfield in the bullpen before games and the pictures are constantly throwing. So they have a baseline of this is what this guy stuff looks like when he's going well- and now it's a little, front from that. Maybe he's slumping he's not doing so well and you can see why he sort of straying from what he should be doing with both these guys over the course of the season they sort of lost the feel furred those pitches sooner. They were guys who threw out a sliders. They had good sliders, but their armed path, sort of just

changed. You know in very subtle ways as the seas and went on. And so by the time they got to the play us, this catches were not as effective as they had. What I feel is changed the deliver, not if it turns out to be quite difficult to that at times you know. Sometimes you can. This technology can allow you to intervene and say: hey here's what you do you're playing? Well, go back to that and it's a subtle adjustment and that something that this You can be very helpful to side this we're under double bluff. If you know all I did, my best thing is a bit is lighter and I get to October and your expect think ass well, liner, I don't throw any yeah how long before Poland goes ahead. No, fair, But I mean as an advantages of percentage and how much is that for

yeah I mean, I can surprise a hitter. Certainly if the scouting report says this, guy throws a lotta, sliders expect siders, and then you don't see any sliders sue. You wonder what else is the scouting report getting wrong here and am I, completely unprepared for this played appearance. So that can be a problem, but Those guys jested their pitches, we're not perfect, ring as they used to, and so this technology enabled the Red Sox to say these pitches are not the same as they used to be there not as effective. Let's just abandon them, even though that seems somewhat radical, because this is how you succeeded in the past, just throw your balls and at your car buzzer, actually performing better. So that's what they did hitters weren't, expecting it and the pitches performed really well, and the Red Sox bullpen was great all the way through that world Series run an interesting so documented cases where this this was failure gather we do say so. Players who try to change your swing,

for they try to design a new page, and I didn't quite work out for them that is as detailed in the Balkans. We're not arguing that the guy who's throws fifty miles an hour at the county. Fair is going to adopt. This has become a major player used to have to be very good athlete raised, will have to be agreed with you coming take lemons and make them into such quality? Womanly that's worthing, but there were seen This impact so widespread across baseball and the promise of just any picture. Bearded design in the new pictures from scratch and optimism. If even fifty percent of major pictures could do that, they would have a huge effect on performance and courage. Sugar factories and not everyone, who's gonna drive line baseball, his added velocity or improved but they ve shown enough that you use us waiting all in a particular manner, and you teach her shoulder to be more flexible. If you keep trainer body to have more, create more

Orson, have a greater range of motion that can lift skill levels it can't help everyone, but have got a secret for you I'm gonna considers consider singing all of the ads on this show. There's just one way to get out a hearing, they're good, patriarch arms last started tall and supporters at the five dollar level or higher to listen. The star talk ad free. You can download all current episodes into your favorite parkers player and never hear another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me seeing if you're supporters Patria Dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just sing it. Just saying it can help enough players were stuff We know a revolutionary breakthrough in the town creation and the idea of talent formation on its core

gonna, take a break in limbo. Travis, so check are going to remain with us when they want to or not I'm gonna talk more because there is so much more. I want to talk about, for instance, which is discussed elite level, major league baseball I'm looking at this saying you, build an army of top and baseball players. We took his tour school. We will know whether seen as your one day for all the work and on that note will take a break. Looking for that perfect space, merge and who is a star talk, has just the store for you. We ve got shirts, had mugs pens, bracelets, necklaces, ear rings, posters, books and more head over to start operating that nets, less store for the perfect gift, even if their,

It's for you. What about climate science behind the privilege, company, Brandenburg and Travis will check the Kawarthas of the Mvp machine. If you listen to the first part of the show. You'll know that is fascinating to see What is now happening if you do in money ball than you so way back at the beginning of this century, carvings have changed, notices, money bar for the guy that once the mostly scars child, by of forcing him the play baseball and become a professional sports player. Ok, it's just now. I have science that can help me scar. My child is great spoken like a true per hour before the break asserted TAT the bit about. If you took this equipment, to a high school junior college.

And you start to work on the adjustment development pitches. Swings We're gonna raised the floor level of costs. Emily pays gonna come anyway. They that you don't do anything they appear think, that's about a given in just about every support you can and you can polish certain services, but bed there. Raising the level now that, could be really interesting. How much of this equipment this technologies? This thinking is filtering down the baseball pyramid, that's really starting to happen it it's everywhere in college these days, especially in division, one there more than fifty schools now that have these track. Ments systems installed, so all their batted balls and pitches are being tracked. Today,

often have a lot of these cameras and devices that we ve been talking about. There is at least one divisions to school. Now that has it there's a high school through high schools, actually that have them as well bow and see. If you go farther down you, you might find even youth leagues with swing sensors and that sort of thing so I mean, I think, kids, people who aspire to be professional players. They look to what the big players are doing, and this is what the big players are doing now, so they embraced these ideas, and often these guys are getting drafted just entering the minor leagues. Knowing things that approach this generation of players would have had to bang their heads against the wall and trial and error and see what fails over. Big samples to learn now they know because they're getting introduced to these concepts. So if I want a bit, I want to install this system in Wayne Manner, have brute stop itching how much? What's our price point

it's going to cost you at this point. A lot of stuff is is still pretty pricey. I mean the track men's. Terms will cost you thousands of dollars. The cameras will still costume thousands of dollars, so you either have do you know, be a failure. With some institution or be from a fairly, which background horror be located close to a facility that has some of this stuff installed, so it it's not exist well to every one, which is a shame in the future. It will probably be more widespread and more affordable, which I think would be a good thing, but you know that, affordable stuff that you can get swings There's that you attach to your bad or the censor? The chuck mention that you attach to your elbow that stuff is actually pretty cheap and pretty affordable, and that can give you get inside too. Those towards benefiting most pitcher or hitter, because if it's the pitcher only What do you know what comes or doesn't come right on the back

yeah yeah. It started, I think, as, moreover, a pitcher centric thing where we had pitches tracked before we had better balls and bats tracked and and the hitters kind of in a reactive position. He seeing what the pitcher does and trying to adjust to it, whereas the picture is planning and he has time to think about what he wants to do, but now the and subside is catching up and their more tools that can quantified that hitting performance to which I think is important, because we're seeing in baseball these days more strike out than ever her forever with not a coincidence that these pictures are getting so good that it's just I asked about TAT is the fact that we ve seen more immaculate, endings yeah. Then, before. I went the wording is pretty frigate. Awesome I may is thing of to watch. You know, do should I go out and just you know, nineteen

is nice strikes and bang you know automated like. Is that because of this, or is that? Is there any total? I think some of the cases are. Examples of clear improvements, summers just now, I think overtime athletes- boys gotten better before- but by all time, he's gotten button trap that sort of thing- and we even had a quantified for Us- were the town. Dublin baseball has improved over time, but it's never accelerated like it has over less DEC that's the way we suspect and pork That's going to even increase and acceleration more of these practices are adopted as more the best Athletes adopt these practices and a book That's the only be lash. The reality is an example of a guy who did changes when he was already good anyone to great so is an example of a guy actually becoming a number be because he adopted some of these swing swing. Changeful I suppose so yeah- I think some of the town

I mean you can just look at velocity its increased every year in the pitch tracking the IRA, since two thousand eight. I suspect that continue. We're gonna, see more pictures but bore pictures about better breakin balls and does I think it's gonna leave. To town unproven across the board, so the owners are gonna, love this because it's me less organic grows? I don't have the own put my dust incrusted by Well, when I call out another hundred something three hundred million dollar contract, I got me a little farm. Fuller demons rearming strength because to me that much money is really kind of like you'd. Like really is this gonna just really all over the free agency market that has happened these past couple winters we ve seen it happen it's funny, but This is helping individual players, obviously both in the aggregate it hurting earnings in a sense, and we ve seen the average major league salary now decline for the past two seasons which is never have

before not right in Trier? Disagree? Well, even he's probably underpaid. Both I mean I owe you is needed by the way. Let me just say that's why this is the greatest country in the face of the Europe that we can actually have a statement where someone says my trout, probably underpaid, God bless America. Thank you is that good, yes, you're right, because you can build a player, Now, because you can promote these prospects through in baseball, don't make very much money or you can go get this guy off. The scrap heap who's never been that good before. But if you make a certain change, maybe he can be good teams don't feel like You need to go out and pay a premium for the established star and you are right now with that being said, is there any technology right now that does that kind of analysis from afar or you know, for instance: ok, I'm a gm right. I got this technology and looking at guys, I'm late that guy right there is

performing? I, Oh, that so I'm gonna go get him sickly, gonna just harvest, so standard players by the metrics. Are being used by their team, but I know I have a different set of metrics that let me know that this guy could come up to a level of play. That's gonna make my team great is that is that something is happening we swim, a whole chapter, dedicated use nasty rose. We argue that there at the vanguard of this movement in the programme, as an organisation in just a minute. The area The camera some example again were most team experiment with one for the first time in spring training, subs pests bring the asters had seventy five. These cameras hard mounted throughout Alder merely to fully its other minor league stadiums, and they have tons of cameras and others. The stadium and their thinking oldest pitched grip info bottom panicle information, who knows everything that extracted from the camera? track and everything

This entails not just on their own players, but other players. Same as when they required players. Mother teams, like a girl, coal, Ryan, Justin Bieber Lander, though, make sometimes all sometimes dramatic chain. We ve seen so many displaced the asked rose and become much. Butter players and endeavour causes a young contender pressure and two years ago at the Each year we had a very disappointing you're just in Berlin under had this science and used and in part, because a slight gripped weeks was lighter, so that's it of an organization taken data, weathers, biomechanical or or wise and applying it and improving players. They acquired from other clubs and that's a great advantage. Certainly, as you touched on something there with the Bio data That's probably next June. From where we are right now through other sports,

a lot of acquisition of biodiversity, stop injury prevention and then do a lot in soccer and the values that football as well as well. However, here you gonna run into HU the Players Union Unless the utilization of information of a medical nature try is rising, Nor can I be happy with that, but is there a way through that I mean I I agree that the bio date was vital. I'm actually waiting for someone to do the psychological While I was about to bring that ass, the next, because less in turn up in stating that, happily and on the same guy on I've, just I've just been in they pay for last. Seventy five years out of four lacking today: so so then you don't know because I've got this history. That tells me I'm really good, but today I feel like something that is it data right now this being used about the player who makes the impact without making the impact, for instance,

for some reason when this guy's them again, we always win. But yet, when we look at his numbers, he really hasn't done anything spectacular, but yet somehow every time we played, as do we win, is very plainly like that: you're Harry Potter, for some reason we always when quitted. There are certainly not reason. Funds are always gets this, which we must have them in here. No serious some serious is is Have we got to the point where there's data like that that there are good clubhouse, guys good glue, guys they call them in baseball gang guys, danger together, yeah, I think that's probably

less important in baseball than it is in some sports. Just because you know you're not passing the ball around right. It's kind of this series of individual Events- Terrell Owens, would not be as caustic out of fat, Plum house affably as he would in a locker room yeah it's harder to quantify, but you know we touch on all these things in the book to the teams are making mindfulness and meditation and mental skills a big part of their training now, and as you were just talking about him in some of the sport science, high performance stuff teams are getting into that to their hiring people You ve been in football in rugby and bringing them over into baseball now and, as you said There's association is very powerful in baseball excels. Major leaguers can opt out of all that stuff, but minor leaguers are not part of that union and so

can essentially make minor leaguers do whatever they want and where whatever sensors they tell them to, so they are very much out good. Now, it's it's! It's unconcerned! It simply. I see it's an invasive thing. You know it can help players, but you can also concern shreck scenarios where it could hurt players. So that's gonna be a bit concern. I think further the union in order to get to the point where this become so ubiquitous, that the play feel. Is this level across the board? we will come down to what division you play, what school you go to and who can afford to do this or the sky We will change from outing guys, We normally have traditionally due to go the places where they dont have this technology with this technology to find those guys grass. Does that make sense. You very much

that's happening. The asterisk herb sending their people with these high tech cameras to be no back fields and high schools and international fields. Where no one has this information and that's been a big vantage. But you know, even if the technology is everywhere and of these states are available. I think there will still be a difference between players because of their mental make up because of, a hard their willing to work, how open they are too. This information, I think, that's really gonna separate players. It's now that talent, maybe dictates the less than it used to what you're going to turn into now. I think, but even more important, is. Are you receptive to this information and can you corporate it into your practice, and that's where the psychologically scarring father comes into play a word. We we're gonna ruin a future.

That don't worry the idea of your little Julia becoming a major league, something those crushed many in the street right. Am I I'm sorry because around you you're, amazing, because great I'll say it in English, or you really rather fun. Not really it's better absolute through. Thank you to bend Limburg. Thank you. Travis soldiers be co, authors of the envy pay machine. If you haven't get, I'm gonna go by, I find it read it think about it, because what's happening in this book is out and its evolving, just like money ball, evolved, you'll find

These guys would be sinking their way through and there's lots of different chapters on lots of different saying and for the low price of a thousand dollars I'll. Give you an audio version where I read it to you right, we're gonna take a break. I might the brightness of the beach and a palm tree right. Thank you, but it's a game. Gentlemen. What a pleasure, stick around because when we come back, we have our favorite baseball, sluice, Meredith wills and she's, not just an astrophysicist. She is a baseball data, analysed and she's fan. Tat Stick and will too two per annum, no doubt Chuck have as much funds. We have these guys. Absolutely around.

Find a science without baseball data, new cutting edge technology, everything we just spoke to wither, Bindon Bug and Travis saw Chick the co authors of the envy pay machine, but now, our dear friend a baseball sluice. Yes, astrophysicist! Yes, add data analytics extraordinaire me! it is there that will allow me. I guys good, so good to have you back on this year? Chuck you do this far, but I might do with that out introduced What does that? Everybody knows about merit of the fact that she is an astrophysicist, a brilliant astrophysicist, as well as a base

of fishing and not all, as well as a baseball super fan. I follow you on Twitter and I get to see other cool stuff that you do in the world. A baseball, a well respected voice, by editorial us it's in the world, a baseball and the person pretty much single handedly flip the whole home run surge controversy on its ear by giving us research that showed the perhaps there as one definable difference in a baseball bat caused. Perhaps the an increase in home runs that we were seeing and I'll. Let you tell her because I loved telling the story because, quite frankly, very very quickly, people sometimes you gotta think differently how bout you!

change. The way you think area- and that is what merit did because everybody, when they were researching this problem there, cutting balls open one Mozilla uncle merited tell us which, He did and her filings Meredith start let's just visualize without the baseball scares baseball's, and so I haven't really ass. An editor at the Atlantic got in touch with man said some merit money. Look at this one too, and so I did, and it turns out that the balls different again again at its way to frame from not just the ball. We had four twenty seventeen, but for every every baseball? It's like everybody I now this. Is this is exciting. Please continue cliffhanger Why can't you just get excited about this topic, so privilege presentation I ever again,

well, it is exciting, so we're always even where. So we know what what what last year's all again we're looking his life- is that you're, a river of major League baseball there with the sector with the same let the edge there were better last year. This is this year's occur next to it other minds again today, have different here. One shiny one, isn't that difference is that on the new boss, but twenty nineteen balls and break the lever smoother. Wages are Fenner, oh let the two really contribute to the ongoing annex, too, that the change in the home runs is that the UN seems themselves are lower, the ball is rounder. Oh, so thank you. That's what I was looking. I was looking at the newborn having a great historical presence than the old, a ball and

when I said shiny, I wasn't pretty rude. Aids yeah smoother. So now, listen everything that you just said. Judging. From the last resource that I read that you put out basically that leads to a lower drag coefficient, and so pretty much and so that lower drag coefficient means that the ball is gonna fly father if its hit with the same power, so there have described it is all just doesn't slow. Down his back or like that does even better that have even been doesn't say. It goes further, its literally not slowing down ass, fast ass. It can travel further with the same you know being hit or not. Put. That put. Next to the discussion we just had with the two guys the author right there saying that at the moment the high take cameras the edge on the track. Man came as he is improving pitching and it's there,

It is that of suffering to a certain extent because of the improvement in pitching throwing a bull that favours the heater involved. It's very very hard to throw yeah realises that this, your game barrier that annex the balls not slowing down as quickly, but that that China's you're talking about slicker leather and The scenes are lower bake, it really really hard and pitch wet, and it's not as if you dont use five relate to cricket that boy, all the come back. You can shine it and create this. This serve as against a cut surface. If you like that heads the that's out of here it's no longer use. So, every time you go back to this particular surface right and therefore pictures of God alone out a pitch again because this things, where was a bar soap?

flip written shiny. What's going on, that's that's a good one. No sooner got call it an ice cube, I ask you all to allow anyone, that's nice, so you put research out there, and you know it makes perfect sense for some reason it doesn't get the kind of attention. I mean I first of all, I think it's great bids its it's kind of solving the mystery that people are interested in and it doesn't really mean the difference, everybody's playing with the same ball. You know what I mean, so it's not like you're it in these aren't necessarily Jim the balls, which is what a lie The headlines say they say The ball is Joost, but the ball is different and that difference creates different outcomes.

That's really what we're talking about right, yeah for some reason, there's been this focus on the interior of the ball right away, that that I haven't thought about even to the point where I guess there's one I got it, I didn't see it. I've read the article to the second time that I understand I making fifties. I think where you had a physicist professor, going through and looking at the ball proudly and he right off the bat discounted, the leather and laces, possibly being able to contribute to home, runs and decided he was gonna. Look at the interior are particularly the way the terms coefficient restitution role, it really means and how the bulk bounces off the bat minutes. Yet. Ok, that's been like what everybody super excited about all the time. Why? How does the Balkan off bad? We can see that in exile philosophy, the abbess, basically, what exit blasted he shows us is the ball coming off that you know if the ethical ass these higher

then one of the possible changes through that can be caught fish nor restitution. However, it lets velocity hasn't changed its probably not that right right up here about a scientist, and I got that exactly you're not make sense. That makes sense, supercool looking it the same thing from a different angle to get a different outcome right. We ve we ve looked at this through so many different and we started off the show without to waters saying basically there and it talk about outliers, threatening differently and all of a sudden, finding their no longer out there on their own. They become a bribe and that tribe is forever growing on? I think Meredith ISM is another example of this who's to look at it and way. The people are beginning to go at makes sense. Yes, exactly

listen. I got to tell you: I love what you do Meredith we are. We are almost out of time, but I got to ask you about this, because I thought it was really really funny. Were Rob Arthur of sleep you know who he is, and he wrote an eye. He wrote an article postulated there very bonds would have hit a hundred homes, runs using the current emerald highballs. How do you feel about those suppositions? I I'll write things. I love about rights, peace, it is this is this is this? Is he is very, very good at taking into account that there are uncertainties around things, so you don't data doesn't happen, they get wouldn't, and so the situation that it comes up with four yeah. You know if it wasn't, it was really war and regulating the right of the house.

Your second Cyprus pitching dust. I remember all the details, but against all these lovely caviar after wild cats, boss of mere review is proof is absolutely possible, but I just love the way. It's it's yeah. You know I'll fire means exactly anyway opponents. Jesus I you know, I gotta know what it is. I got one last thing for you blog. I know I know you are huge. Bob, and I know you got ten games. I know you have a foul bar. This has nothing to do with anything that we're talking about now had you feel about this movement to put letting up all around every part, so A foul balls have no chance of injuring fans. Have happened in certain cases in certain parks. Do you think that text from a fan experience of the game? Where do you think the safety is more important? I think say, honestly, I think say he is more important, especially again this file

slow down his fast. Oh, that's right! I was actually more. I don't know how much more dangerous, but you know it's more dangerous or even be seeing the horizon we're saying so, there's believe I'm looking at netting is it's almost like a fan equivalent of baseball we're going to see that people are gonna comply. People are gonna, think it's you know taking away from your writings, Verger Van experience, whatever that's fine, you as a fan are not capable of catching a line right like that. I don't care. If you're not on your phone, I don't care grouping attention Althea, holding a glove I feel I have to say I really like you spent Roundy that was set down come in light

It has been ground, but that's right, the than ever be made you I'm telling you that wage costs, while you're willing to we love you that you are here. Yes, that's it play before every game at every stadium. You are not good enough. That's a lie, drive as well, you're, not on the field swayed sitting. What you're that side of the net in that's? Why would end that's why we put up matting? That's amazing man the absolute arrives sounds like that is so grand Israel's I'll, never disappointed when you come on the share of Agnes. I have it again, I consider it a thank you. So much really at pleasure grated. See America was everywhere. The pledges are what a great show of baseball lobbying astrophysicist Who brings a brain power to just simple things like get this thing trap this further.

It's for your safety, yet put the nets up near just thinking just basic thinking like back that's, why is changing the game and that's why we have Meredith on the show really well, let's I'll show everybody. I hope what we ve done is make you think differently get you. To take a paw and look at the same thing from a slightly different angle and may be coming up with a thought for your own and stop product. Soon with your kids. Without that data analytics equipment, I got to know we're gonna make the process without it yeah get down to the electronic Chopin drop about. Fifteen while easy busy. You guys know just right. I've been Gary Arena venture with science a but come here.

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