Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, Commercial free, welcome, start on your place in the universe where science and pop culture color dartle, begin right. Now, all the universe, your whole wielded facing your personal right. Where future my interview, legendary chimpanzee researcher J, good, who, with binoculars notebook completely leave define our understanding about primates and ourselves soon, let's do

nice joining my communicable a hate? I always get having a jerk, always good, being baby me, my man to whom we pay him. So he says that back it s about our work, no ass. They that, because you mom may also join, is biological anthropologist job. It's just walk out. Your professor of Anthropology, Texas, State University town is that an Samarcand Jim Workers, of course, and your national Geographic x or a whole category of person that they have and you studied chimpanzees and Senegal. I do Senegal very cool. It will be relying heavily on your expertise because, as you know, we're featuring my interview with living legend, Jane Goodall, bulgarian inspiration- yes, yes, yes, she her field work is that,

it's, as I understand the foundation of all modern primates science, over stating it. What I think I think, she's rockstar, rockstar, ok, justifiable, rockstar! Well, interview. I asked her: how did her path into signing? begin at all, because we all have a story. She's got a story, check it out again and a hen house when I was four and a half years old which went to stay. A farm in the country- and I always loved animals. In London at the time so long and I went to this farm where animals the fields and hence clucking around in the farmyard- and I was given a job the eggs. So I know members, but the parents house asking everybody, but in here where's the whole on the hen. Where does the income? nobody could tell me, wouldn't tell me so what I do remember distinctly. Is this hen,

and Brown one and she's going into this little henhouse and there were ness boxes around the edge. So I must have so she's, going to learn that I crawled after her and I was gone for hours and the family had no idea where I was they even call, the police and yet when mom saw me running towards the house, was shining eyes and said mad at me. How dare you go without telling us? Don't you dare again. She sat down to hear the wonderful story- ray of how a hen lays an egg so isn't that the king of a little scientist, curiosity asking questions not seeing the right answer citing to find out. You're, so making a mistake and not giving up and learning, patient sex, all love- and I was four and a half and a different kind of mother might have crushed. That sign curious stay? Maybe I wouldn't have done what I've done. Jerry saw. People would apparently

the first year of your life teaching you to walk and talk in the rescue I've told you to shut up and set out for ever. I dont have any become aside so Jill. What could you highlight for us? Jaynes legacy If you may, I mean I think that there are so many things she she discovered you're, the one with the first I guess it's all. Yours these are other animals that use tools, whereas before we we thought we were the only if only presumed, and maybe we needed, therefore only right to assert, praying now another a number of things that you know Jane discover that war, what peace, he will call warrant chimpanzees a number of behave there's that we thought were unique: our own species. If we use these things that are unique, our own species as a definition of being human, then we find another animal out there do. We now call those other animals human, we usually just right

The bottom line is: keep keep internet new place, just as we can good about our. We just retract have to redefine ourselves apparently she's been knighted, you know you can night women, all night. Does that igniting Dame Jane S because the corresponding to Sir but for women. Now it's not Dame is more like. So I assume you agree that this everything she described there in her profile is is what makes a good scientists, I think, accepting what goes wrong curious to the point of risking your health, the concerns of all others who care about you. I well back in the nineteen sixties again good all with no formal training in science. At the time I'm holding side have four year old export. The fact is, in the real world people little what resume. Where'd, you get your degrees, in science showed no formal training of sight,

and she went alone into the tanzanian juggle to study chimpanzees, which, by the way, had never been done before so I asked her how and why she found herself on that path without having any size background it all. Surely not anthropology must check it out. So the nineteen sixties. There is, of course, we're in the cold war we go. To the moon and you're thinking about chimps. I'm desperate trying to get into their world and find out about them. No one had really done that before then following in anyone's footsteps now, my mental adultery Louis leaky paleontology spend his life searching for me. Remains of the earliest humans in Africa. Not even he is looking for chimps or he's looking for something on route to humans has, argument was ok about.

A million years ago this in a plague, human life creature, and if you a few, uncover the fossil of an early human You can tell him off a lot from the muzzle attachment from me where on tease, firmly tools, I say that with their living value can learn a lot about the behaviour, social behaviour that doesnt fossilize. So his theory was, if Jane seized behaviour that similar or the same between chimpanzees today and humans today, perhaps say Behavior was brought by humans by chimps along our long evolutionary journey originated in that a plague human life creature. That's why he sent me out to calmly, but he didn't know anything about the field work. He just sent me off my own to find out about the two

a great line there. Your behavior doesnt fossilize, and I just never thought about it and that on such simple in very clear terms, if you, if you look it sort of tax on me of muscles and bones, and this sort of thing that's one thing, but what so much? What defines a species is its behaviour right. So could you, tell me more about that, at least in your studies and think about behaviour, genetically one of the things I Jane discovered to use is something that is a great example, because most of the tools that chimps use wooden fossilized, Oh there are sometimes that you stone tools, but most of it will they use are made of wood, so those wooden material it, and so on my site, for example, the Champs actually hunt. What tools, and not something again we Europeans do not. Yet we can I Forty seven, that's that's a cartoon right. There,

So those are examples of behaviour that you couldn't anticipate couldn't interpret from the fossil record. She'll behaviour is well there most of champion He behaviour would be hard to discern from from the fossil record. I think so. Let me just just one might get my vocabulary straight, so give me the did. I guess the great apes, the greater must when we're in this our great eight. Ok, ground, Great Britain, regrettably, no nice, so humans, humans, chimps, chimpanzees and banal bone and but about a ring. It hands, anger Ellis! So now great apes, and that's it that's not baboon November monkeys. So I just I get this clear so

humans and chimps are closer to one another than either are too old world monkeys right. Then, either arctic guerrillas acts ok, so we go back to a common ancestor between we. Two and before that, there's a common ancestor to these other apes in the categories rights. If we don't have a fast, our common ancestor. How do we talk about the common ancestor? we just presume there must have been one. We do it changes. Our thoughts on the common ancestor change so morphological. We we think that Madrid shape embrace the body structure, we didn't get looked more like a champion like a living human, probably more Bonobo, which is more grass I'll slimmer than chimpanzee, was Edward, I'll was murder. Slim slim centre

grass on leaner, along everybody from from eating grass grocer S. Last then does anybody who is grass women? Sure I mean a lesson that will cause you're just machines. We invented to turn Grason to stake. S shows what a marvellous just say: I've, never that's what that's what it is, but that is the one that creates wild stay cows wandering upwards of milk caused. This seems to be the amendments. He has some grass, illicit, ok, so for Jane

to study chimps in the way she did right. She had to figure out how to get close enough to them. To make these observations. Something other people hadn't thought to do figured out was sorry and so something that has never been done before, so I asked her how she did so. If I were chimp- and I saw you coming run away what what is the? What was your tactic? I've found a peak. And with my binoculars I sat there and I could see she began learning quite a bit about attempts from the food say at different courses were making I could see how they bent over lunches to make statements. Forms illness night gradually, The chimpanzees got use snakes. I wasn't frightening them I want the same color clothes every day and didn't try to get too close to quickly

and eventually they realized. I wasn't a scary, as they first had soared. Then came the scary bit for me. Because having realised that I wasn't scary, they treated me a little. It was a carnival and they tried to chase me away ass. If I was a leopard screening, at me, having branches and charging paused, and you know that about ten times stronger than me. So I will I just pretended. I wasn't in seven them. I dug little what's in the ground, I pretended to ITALY I suppose it then they thought she not hurting us not harming us. She does. Go away so better. Just accept two things were. I were first moving closer and closer over several months. That's how I met my wife

because you know you don't want to look like you stock and slowly slowly got closer in number two for you jail. Is that possible? you know she's Sydenham, digging holes and eaten leaves the just hey guys. Clearly, that is ugliest jump we have ever seen. We should show some compassion, so The heart is it to gain trust eight depends I said he jumps into Savannah and they were actually took us for years to get them use to us, because in its savannah they they can't climb the trees to get away. They just they way away, they run hooker, and so I took longer, I think, that's one of the lengthy US capitulation periods. We say just bring them down and a nice way habituation habituation. That's a word you invented there were. I didn't insane might have saved my field, our words with simple: we saw spots on the sun, we call them

yeah, sorry wrong event: habituation, okay, so I also learned- and I was- I did to learn, but I do know that it would be controversial that she knew aimed her research subjects rather than numbering them and anthropological E. This poses a problem, but why they worry that they might Become attached, invest feelings that interfere with their note, taking what what's the real issue here. So I have the few rules about naming jumps and we should have named after people that we know- or at least we all know, and so I had one person that starts in a Machamp Saddam, and I said no, we can't really name a chance to it's, not a nice thing to do that's what I'm trying to take over oil from the water, whatever it was. She did that she wasn't supposed to do her. Reservations, basically shattered everything that we had previously list

that distinguishes us from them and I think that's a good thing coming up. We will how not special weakened. Who's start talking to have them little secret for you I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's just one and where to get out of hearing there, go to patriarch arms last star, talk and support, where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen the star talk ad free? you can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never we're here, another commercial on star talk ever again, you will definitely not have to hear me sing if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying.

My interview with research and living legend Jane Goodall. I asked you about a discovery. She made that lead defined what it means to be human check it out. I remember my biology class how much of the book was devoted to destroy wishing we from they share. From all other life in the world less of that in modern books, but certainly when I was growing up and they would take human, we use tools and no other animal dies. I soaking mom human. I got that and you blew that wide open it was exciting and it was the first chimpanzee began to lose? His fear of me, who I saw one day break off grass stems

some indeterminate ones pull them out and died of termites and then breaking off a leafy twig so to use that as a tool he had to say The link sets a buccaneer tool, making it. Was that observation, because we, as you say, the only created may canoes tools. We were man, the tool maker, and it was that observation. It enabled lake to go to National geographic society. Agreed aid to fund research, when my six months money ran out and be They send a photographer and filmmaker to document. What, by that, time I was learning job. What was the impact of that discovery? Chimpanzees use to us? I think it is just an attorney

Why and how we considered narrowly chimpanzees, but human. So I mean it's your social justice discovery in situ about the animal. It came back to US rights and we continued to do things to see. Discoveries make us redefined, Cells without was really a huge one, and only we ve seen another one like there's this quote from week. You I have added my notes. Was it we must either define tool? we define man or exceptional Jesus, human, yet a red line ourselves as tools for permutation need an answer so so that, but that was unprecedented right. It really was at the time and in the sixties shore I mean I have to ask you about the implications came later. Obviously, but at the time, just mine blowing this must have been. So I asked her about what impact at heads

check it out. Can you help me assess the philosophical impact, realizing we're? Not the only tool makers in town did that forces. To redefine ourselves to keep some distance between us and ships, or did it bus, embrace, chimps, simple, types of animals in letting them, first, when I reported this leaking of course believed it the scientists say: well, it's just so Dongo girl. She hasn't means college. Why have to believe then a photograph So then people said I wish she must have taught the chimps to use tools, I'm thinking, listened for still bursting running away from me how but I have even thought of teaching them, I'm thinking if you had taught them how to use tools. Two way more amazing discovery than discovering that Do you still want to be credible so anyway,

and gradually people were learning more about the information in the field that income the they kiss embrace hold hands? Pat one another's swagger shake the first learned They have a dark side like us. They can be violent, brutal, aggressive and kill, but that they are we can show compassion, altruism and so all of this blue away this. Crazy idea that there is this line between I'll, send the rest of the animal kingdom sojourn in question. Would they have been as skeptical of her discovery if she were pet agreed academically pedigree like the rest, because it still remain an amazing, discovered matter who's making. It seems to me right. I think they probably wouldn't have been as as critical, but I think it's it was such a huge blow target

an ego that that you would have seen a lot of scepticism argued mount scepticism is a natural part of science, and so the greatest scientist and discoveries have met after system, when they came for Galileo and Darwin actually in, and Einstein, but when other people can double check in see themselves and damages. The scepticism evaporate quickly if the original observation is as integrity right right. So how long did it take around the time that Jane started her studies, the Japanese started studies in Tanzania as well, and so that is the second longest running research site, associate bessie behaviour and they also

We begin to see to use other places in Uganda, so she's vindicated right out of my now here many times over, so she mentioned the chimps have a dark side. Yes, there s a little scary discuss what a man on the dark side does not look. I'm your father other, that's look! I'm your very distant cousins Joe you observed chimps behaving badly first hand as echo We have what we had indirect evidence. We heard it happened at night, but we had a former alpha mail at my side, killed by the other males in his group a few years ago, like back much again Yes, there are ten adult males that gained up on this former alpha. This, of course, leads us to save this is our closest neighbour genetic neighbour, and it's got violence. Does that mean violence is match

rollin humans and we should view it as a socially regressive behavior, but as a natural, for that. We then try to try to stop. I think a grass as an actual behaviour. The lethal aggression that you see is is pretty rare and shrimps and its more common in some sub species How do we all Ferris is also rearing humans? We, if you can just go out everyday, just kill. People it's it's extremely small fraction of the popular rights re one other. And I think that that mail was killed was he was an especially brutal alpha, and so he would He was ostracised or drive year permanent and when you try to back in as when they caught up, he became greater pay. Some is no justice like just so so chimps or relatives with sore bonobos right, but also arrogant the bonobo, so I'm told the day they don't. They resolve differences with. Yes, they do

and they and their just as related to us, just try, so we so weak no it's like. We can pick and choose. What we want to say is natural for us, so this exercise is flawed over to nearest neighbors solve problems in complete opposite ways. Right then, does it even mean to say we are related. Therefore, this be for us as natural right, so so, what about altruism tourism. I think me see some amazing examples of altruism and chimps, but that's another area where we have this really high bar. We use ourselves as example of true out for us. If that something that exists so completely selfless behaviour, but you see the way in which an example with them entropy engines, We had an infant kid, not an infinite. My poachers and were able to complement vulture of human poachers are well able to confiscate her give her back to the group within five days, Her mother had been injured in that attack by poachers, so she couldn't

the baby, so in adolescent male carried the baby for the mother a couple of days and so, if you look at the different steps that were hey again more stages: he qualified is being exhibiting. Altruism and empathy does something has costly to yourself and it's not necessarily because we re write our dear. We look to you men's and say what we have our tourism. So right. You see some amazing examples of altruism and chimps with that's another area where we have this really high bar. We thank you. So you think you're as you think you are hot stuff, but you really are not coming up My interview, legendary chimpanzee researcher, Jane.

What is important from a watching brief one sign language, four hundred signs of american sign now, if they can do amazing things on my computer chips in different parts of Africa, so different to using behaviors and the young ones, watch and learn. So if we accept a definition of human culture, Behavior passed from one generation to the next who observation: chimps have culture, I think, the thing that makes us more different some point tonight: pollution we develop this ability to communicate with with words spoken written Once you have speech our kind of speech, you couldn't its children about things that are present chimps by watching. Once you have speech, you can discuss the

handed on you can plan the future. You can bring people together from different backgrounds to try and solve. Problem. So I think this is what led to this development of of the end well cell okay, so tools no longer left us distinct, We got language here. We can regard language, yes, that the defining difference now, I think, spoken language, but as Jane mentioning we can teach apes to you. Sign language. They can new symbolic Ex gram language rules on language then spoken language centre, ok, silken! This is this: the governess categories very, like a slice of bologna get a very cheap. The abolitionist headed deadlights spoken language skills and I didn't have words, but we ve all seen chimps communicate right with you,

vocalist nations there's some sound that are there, modulated in ways that they seem to know what the dogma rights we can understand quite a bit of what they say. I think that one area that we really need that, wouldn't you can understand what they said while we, when we urge region, I do a little child. Did you speak to him? Do I make I understand it better than I speak it do you know I just came up with a mad. There was a little game, culture, trimmed Churchill chair, here's overdue, of some audio sounds of a job and a meal, and I can figure out what the chimps sand and you could tell us if we're right. Am I right when I first, when he'll go guys? First, one. Ok, I think that's empty I have to tell you. The lack of a bathroom is broken pleased that our next time put down the toilet

seat when you're done about that women are not balanced clothes but that was a robber. What sort of medium level medium level, radium level which could be a yelling at someone or about a complaint it's all right. Son. Maybe not a predator, which would be more of a lamb, doesn't allow because there is a great organization. So it's not just the kind of it positive raw who, but it's you know, someone is doing Thank you rather so it's kind of like you know, I'm terribly sorry, but this coffee is my complaint. Will I must say that some guys

I got it. I know that when we, I gather that, as with everything that was pretty clear day some years ago, A girl was ok towards it. Maybe not that No, I mean I can't even at a rather like hey Buddy, were here: oh snap, You can click advertising year yourself. There could have been like it affirming tree or could have been when males that was a male comes up and, join the group because Chumps revision fusion, so not all of them, are altogether at one time so that's a chemical eurasian emphasis here we tissue to book. I worry a sermon our words thermonuclear fusion. That's re s rights chimps in the sun.

Income, so that brings us to the barber shop cosmic. Very normally we take questions from the internet fan base serves our talk too, on the topic at hand, but Jane Goodall sent a question my way and I figured that'll be the cousin queries for today. Ladies and gentlemen, Jane Goodall, it was the full, very clear sky and coming shooting out were light. It was ass, though it was a fine coming out single fireworks. And be one two. Three four come from the other side and then it would be quiet for a bit. Then this display started up It was absolutely extraordinary and no they seem to know what it could read. These were emanating from the full moon from the full moon. It was

completely amazing? I was also struck. So here's what we know so earth the planet plows through several hundred tons of meteors the day, almost all of it burns up in our atmosphere, so because we have an atmosphere- and this is its protective blanket for us. The moon has no such protection their play. In our orbit, where the amount of this debris is more than other places. This is what takes us from a meteor shower to a meteor storm. If you, if whip, I went through this extra heavy debris section of space

hitting the moon. Nothing stops it from going all the way to the surface goes to the surface and all that energy to go somewhere because I think stopped moving. You can get explosions off the surface of the moon which, in your case thinking it would have happened on the edges of the moon so that you can see the sparks coming ass. It was coming out of a blonde out now I bet was also coming towards you, but you will have noticed that you wouldn't have saved you wanna see because the moon is in the way of the moon is brightening, despite the same. So that is what I would guess that you saw now because nobody else is heading. Ideas at all other just aliens celebrating joyful like Ireland, next we visited group of chimpanzees relocated to their new home in Georgia after a licence

medical research went start operator, the American Museum of Natural history, the Rose sister for earth space. Where future my interview with a legendary chip, researcher, Jane Goodall, I asked her how we should treat our closer check it out. Is there a way, since then we should treat some animals differently from others just because their genetically closer to us, that's wrong. So where do you say? Okay, there,

our brain club, but the rest is not. How do you coach people to think about that question? Well, most people ethical philosophers, they're saying the line stops. The innovation comes when an animal can feel an effort, so does it have consciousness? Can it feel pain? Can it feel, fear, it distress, there's a lot of multiple sites the issue of animal testing in the service of Human health where, where do you land and that conversation and that I don't think we have the right to take animals and do things to them just for the sake of human health, Fortunately, its being more and more profit one hand that shoot

Food demand of animal experimentation actually hasn't help, at all, because they are different, even chimps, you know so like us, they can be infected with many other. Is uniquely human diseases, but they don't. We in the same way and they Thea it that underdeveloped developed might work on a chip, but not, human or vice versa, On the other hand, there are more and more alternatives. Other ways of finding answers to these questions with using live animals should yield. You think much about animal testing I do I. I began my experience with chums working facility that was a captive chimpanzee breeding facility, and so my job was to try to help those chumps have the best life they could, but their behaviour and a case that its very similar to what you see in humans and, in fact, with captive chimpanzees, are treated chumps with the same antidepressants,

One thing that is distinctly different in chumps is achieved. Z smile, which is a fear grinned for them? So we have very distinct smile and their smiles actually fearful remiss so smiled they're afraid? Yes, yes, so that's then that's bearing in mind the famous photo, the space Monkey Railway stooped space, how came back and they opened the capsule. And we thought it was my right now- is a fairground where he was going to die in this area, and I am they put him on Zoloft. Could he turns I've read? Think about apparent is a new law in twenty fifteen that basically barred research from on captive chimps down that I've search invasive biomedical research. I think that's great, so we can ask the question what

now becomes of these chimps that we're all in captivity in these labs. We can ask them and to find out, we sent star talk. Science, correspondent and Metalogy Natalia Reagan to meet some new arrivals at the chimpanzee sanctuary in Georgia. Check it out. Anal I'm project chimps, it is a sanctuary deep in the backwoods of North Georgia or chimpanzees, are getting a new lease of life, the sanctuary sooner and sixty three acres of lush green hills, they're gonna, being primate Paradise here, today's as freely exciting day they're getting six new chimpanzees from research facility in Louisiana. They just ten sixteen hours in this transport vehicle. So, as you can

here. They are very excited. Why am I like? The sexy face Mosque Whelp, it's not so much to protect myself. It's protect the chips because Humans and chimps are so similarly biologically genetically. We can transmit diseases back and forth one another. It's called zoo noses. So this is to protect them right now: they're taking the first chimpanzee off this transport Take him inside get em acclimated for a little bit and then he's gonna go outside the sanctuary area where it's gotta be reunited with his friends. He's coming off right now: sparely com, seems almost no, that he's going to be entering a very cool new life virginal at these guys. Berlin in and get acclimated and we're gonna meet? The woman who runs this place and she's got entered? to some ships have been here for a while. Here we are with Sarah Butler. The founder of this wonderful place now but these guys these are nine females. Does this MRI here who really want some juice,

Saint primates really interesting in the fact that we, we love sugar. All framing this dual across the board in the chimps are no exception. When I say now about the majority, can then act as I think behind They're, getting ready for a birthday party for Semira who turns fourteen, if you ve ever what a chimpanzee birthday party, looks like look no further guys, you got streamers, you ve got stuff frog, stuff, chance, watermelon and actually got her gift, while because chimps, where they first primate to go into space, we got our space shuttle. Hopefully it will inspire them to start, in fact to union tribute. I read your prime ecology. Apologies them apart. I'm comedian, I do it all and parties world. So, what's a birthday party for jim-

so Samir I she turned fourteen and eighteen is it? Is it like you, dog years? What is done is gems can live up to fifty five sixty, sometimes seventy year Yang captivity suggests she said you know, and I like most fourteen year old girls birthday parties, they don't have We do each other's hair, but there's grooming they had instead of having a birthday cake, they had watermelon. There wasn't really banana daiquiri, but you know they had some juice. It was but there was one ship in particular that really had information and sometimes you have a connection with a primate. We had a fecal connect. Gertrude and I grew cheered. Is there a resident who thrower and she- and I had a few deep connections where she she tucked her fecal matter.

General direction, you throw a legal matter back. I don't know I really resisted Neil, but I actually did decide you can actually sponsor chimps at project chimps and I decided to sponsor Gertrude circles. She should love you so much the worse working. A family now to confirm or two sisters, so you were wearing this plastic mass. Get your duly described to us. Why wasn't criminals wearing a plastic mass? They voted for all the rigmarole of making sure that they don't have anything that you never met actually know, and this is ok so long ass. Well again, like we talk about this, you know this is a problem, but, as we ve talked about, this chip seemed rather team right. These pretty cool. However, we know that chimpanzees can be extremely violent and their incredibly strong when it comes to well human strength there very top hat If I went in there and wanted to say tat a chip on his shoulder, it might tell me- and I might go, throwing fly across the room, whether meant it or not. So this kind of, like a freak setting here when I put him into the real. Why? Well it's a great quest,

like we mention they were born and bred in captivity. So all they know is life with humans having food available presented to them by humans. They don't have the skills that they would need. To hack it in the wild and once they, the groups get acclimated their. Hopefully reduce them to one another because they're not hoping to breed them. They're all fixed like that emails or are on oral contraceptives and believe that rural contraceptives Males are she's, never do exactly exactly, they don't want to breed them there, because they really feel like chimps should not be bred in captivity yet door. It was cut in interest. To see the males be introduced because each of them in reacted to the freedom of choice, to leave their create differently somewhere. Gregarious Let's get out and be free and some were really taken their time they finally were given chance to make a decision, so that was that were excited heard that the other female jails were on the bill. Coming up, my ass chip expert, Jane Goodall,

whether she should be the first person we call when lions landowners return, don't talk from American, revealing that delivery quickly, to my interview with climate psychologist and living legend, Jane Goodall, and since our first research journey into Africa, the nineteen sixties, more than half the chimpanzees honour of disappeared, so I asked Jane about this tremendous lost check it out in the nineteen sixties lose about a million chimps in the world between one and two million in this great equatorial forests belt in Africa, and today what is there? today, its its maximum three hundred thousand and what the accounts for the drop in numbers, destruction

so their habitat habit, and also the Bush a trade which is the commercial hunting of wild animals for food different from subsist something. Finally, the live animal trade, shoot a mother to steal the baby It's a cell at. We thought we'd stamp that out, but now there's a whole new inflows, chimpanzees moving from Africa, often the Middle EAST, to places like China. So it's a difficult place out there, but also difficult to so many of the african people, so many living in abject poverty not enough food, not enough occasional health facilities, and it was one flew over Gunnbiorn nineteen ninety and looked at what had been part of this great equatorial belt, and so a tiny oasis of forest surrounded by bear hills more

in Poland the land could support too poor to buy food from elsewhere. You'll have to cut alas, trees down, because you got to survive, but try, chrome or food. So poverty Aviation is really important, but this. In time. The UN's sustainable lifestyle. Do the rest come down. We need think differently, this alone work to be done. Luckily, as I traveled around, I find doing amazing work in all these areas and projects which, changing things around the extremes are the current. So this, the hope, Aren't you see the same threats that Jane rights have talked about rights were fortunately, no not where I work in Senegal, but we see other threats like mining. That's a big threat right now to two jumps in Senegal, wise mining threat. There's been gold rush and

You have thousands of people coming in from neighbouring countries displacing habitat rights right. I thought the tree. We're leaving their habitats to go mind forego? That's it? That's a new revenue of new species, so, of course, initially with no training? She found a way to communicate with chimps, as no one had done before, so that got me thinking, maybe she'd be our best hope to communicate with another sentient species I just wonder secular if alien species space alien lands on earth. Do we call you first see if you can figure out how to communicate with them? I would love to suppose they look at us the way we look Perhaps they would answer

if they got here. That means there get better technology than we do because we really haven't been anywhere. Quite honestly, if an end, and alien looks at us now? They would think what has gone on this. What separates us most from some other animals. Is this intellect that designs tat? alleging that enables you to learn about the stars. So how on earth is most intellectual creature to ever walk on the plan, Why is it destroying its only home? Why we polluting cutting down the rain forest fine the ocean. Why on earth are we doing all that? so those aliens would look at. Shake their heads and say, look so and rich and after all, intellectual, maybe but not wise. We ve lost our wisdom. Making decisions based on help me now. Shareholders meeting nets political campaign, not as

indigenous people do. How does this decision affect future generations as disconnect between? This clever, clever, brain and love and compassion as such so Joe in your line of study, do you think about wisdom, since at every turn, your research the mirror back at us as humans in this world waiting land on this, I think, of the loss losses we would too I mean I I love chance. That's why study them What's on your former, is that's one of my favorite european tattoo. I do! Oh, my god. It's actually that you knew is its veto. One of my favorites Fredo, afraid I've been after fried smack from For that reason, I think, with the extinction of of chimpanzee communities, the fact that we're still finding out new information about them, even though you know we ve been saying from fifty years that

our were missing out on a lot and we have to think differently rights. Definitely, ok, let's just get just a final fire, so so Jill. What what makes us human gas, good question I think that it I didn't want to stop. You know it's only eighteen, but all the time, I'm not sure I keep going back to language it. What is what, has enabled us to do- and I think we have a lot of power and the ability to do good things, but I was gonna go with hot pockets. What I think about what the extinction of of chimpanzee communities the fact that we're still finding out new information about them. Even though you know we ve been saying from fifty years that our were missing out on a lot and we have to think differently. Rights defiling occurred, which is good,

what is a genetically where ninety nine percent identical dna, which impacts ease. So I think about this, and I say all right: what are we prone to say? We're protests it, what a difference that one percent makes we have philosophy in art and the Hubble telescope, and they can just put a stick. The term. I mountain pull out. Termites, we'll just imagine this in alien shows up with one percent Jeanette, different beyond us that we are ready to the trip. Consider that our most complex thoughts. Would be trivial matters for that community of aliens, because I asked Who defines humans as intelligent? We do would we be considered intelligent to this species of aliens

then has the same genetic difference in intelligence that we had to chimps, I'm thinkin. Maybe they visited earth already took a look and kept going because they were certain. There was no sign of intelligent life here at all That is a cosmic perspective. This has been start off vague. You know, I've been your house nearly drastically reduce the keeper. Here we should listen to start talks on Visa free joint start talking,

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