Neil deGrasse Tyson talks about exploring space with planetary scientist Carolyn Porco, aka Madame Saturn, leader of the Cassini Imaging Science team.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, Commercial free, welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide knocked off begin right now, his star talk truculent my job. Joan I like it. I told him everything you know. This is what he told me I just got to forward, but he was a house me. You know it taught me I'll check nice and scenario with a jerk always good to have you did we face we're doing this? We ve got one of my favorite
people in the world is a friend and colleague, Caroline Porco Chilcat, and I call or Madame Saturn, because she's head of NASA's imaging team for the Cassini mission to Saturn Loud and so she's ensure all the beautiful did you ever seen a saturn in the last ten years they came out of her life nice. I know I know how could you not and so Cassini mission? was launched in nineteen. Ninety seven Saturn is a long way away. It took seven years to get there well and so finally pulled into orbit and a lot of things happen on admission. It had a little probe that it dropped, offers itself and plant down on what are centres moons tighten, which is one of the few This is in the solar system that has an atmosphere right and it's a moon cause. Our know how atmosphere that's right, titans got an atmosphere, lift probe went down there and
so our mountains and valleys and rivers and lakes, but the lakes were not made of water. They are made of liquefied methane. That's how cold it is methane, gas that comes out your stove that unite freezes. You're, not printed liquefied right, liquefied. It's an alien scape and you know that we'll both clear through two thousand seventeen and then not guess what they can do with it. Now we can bring back so what I ve done. It had just left, That is what we get polychrome plug it down in the atmosphere. Just let it go about will know that there are still talking about it, but what little figure it out when we get closer to the time our airlines will know where we have, then all of our stuff is sitting up one block race, car, that's sadder, that will be the toilet, bow visions that have been there. So, let's go to my first clip with Carolyn Porco she came to my office
interviewer and find out just wish come from where she been wish. You go and was so Carolyn your native New Yorker. I understand I am. I come from the Bronx where you do a Debra wrongs report the Bronx North
sparked Pelham Bay, parliamentary cool, so your first night sky would have been the same as my first night sky. I have a story, I think like yours, about the night sky, the hidden planetary, not well. I have a story that starts with me waiting for the bus Westchester Square in the Bronx I used to work in the library and that have to catch the bus. It wishes to square, and I just remember looking up and seeing like one or two bright stars- probably wanted them with Jupiter and, like everybody else in New York, I had the same experience gonna haven that I guess apparently you dinner at the real universal right. My towards early did you know you wanted to do this, so I got into astronomy the backdoor. I was attracted more from my spiritual questioning when I was just a young teenage. I was like thirteen gone on eighty and I was thinking things like. What am I doing here? What is the meaning of life? I was probably very depressed. That's why I was thinking these things. Are you an existential thanks? I asked thirteen had enormous existential at the beginning of a troubled China, and I read about Hinduism. I read about Buddhism. I read about opera, you totally messed up. I was telling must have I even for a while that very very serious about my religion, Catholicism and for a period about four months. I went to church like four
times a week, and I did all the indulgence and you're still around thirteen yeah. I thought that just didn't cut it for me. I even did read about existential, isn't that was really depressing, but you know thinking about what is the meaning of life and in a who am I? Where am I got me thinking right? Where am I well aware, is where, beyond just being the Bronx sparingly
if you have any one you're in the broad outlines of an existential question, is there anything outside the Bronx? Not so I started reading about the universe in about galaxies and stars and so on, and that's how I became interested in astronomy debts. They first I've ever heard. Marianna must males and all of this work for you most male seem to get interested in astronomy. By doing things I grinding lenses and building telescopes, I was never a tinker. I was a seeker, that's high describe myself, I was seeker and I got the answers to the question of the meaning of life. You know lay in the universe. To this were a few thousand years ago, you could have been a profit think about it, because, if you're young and your having these kinds of questions, most adults, don't even think that way. So you would have been labelled as someone with a search for wisdom and then you'd, acquired and shirt with others, and they probably would have like hung me, foreign to the verge of your own Amara girls and boys. I'm going to be burned, girls from the Bronx, nobody from regards gotta flora, and we got a story because you know what I think the bronze puts out a good product even make it right. Now I don't know anything about the prompt, wonder. There's this acting illegally existence, proof that you can grow up in the city,
Anne and form over the night sky, though never having seen it for real at night right and so the value of local planetarium, which in New York is the Hayden planetary. Absolute turns out this, like it's funny how how similar you Stories are well minus the religion, part and the existential Export and Buddhism part and at other that, if their identity, if what you say, what itself laddie, but I you just never know as as a kid what they're gonna become. You want to keep the ground fertile, rightly intellectual quest for shit, she's eager right. So what TAT meant was she wasn't gonna, really land anywhere. She was always taking flight. She was always insert so to have gone through. These other philosophies meant there was a philosophy still waiting for her to find absolutely that's a beautiful
That is our main. Well, you know that's remit. She wasn't home watching tv right season, explore your auction. What watching the Beverly, hillbillies or whatever the hell out I was doing. If that's not explorers are rare among us three people who keep searching, you can be a spiritual intellectual explorer. You can be a physical explore. These are the people who leave the cave and combat wiser with fruits from across the valley right right and where the rest of us, like sitting by watching the Beverly. Yes, I love explorers because I am the person waiting for them to come back with a further from the valid its awesome, and so the question is explores or so highly revered. How come every and his white where's, that in the genetic make up of human beings, how can everyone is an export right? We know why life, because everyone whose not an explorer is back in the cat. That's true, they're back in the cave
making baby it's why exporters out find stuff. So so so, there's an interesting fact about that. But when exports from backed in everyone's make, babies with explore is a difficult, irreplaceable legs. But I'm just saying when we come back for my interview with Carol important. Madam sadder. welcome back you start talking near the grass tasting caused Chuck nice house. Yes, are tweeting Chuck most comic, yes, sir, I follow you, I follow you do I laughed and most of the most jack you got about a two eighty batting, that's bad, so
the free. My interview with my friend and colleague Carolyn Porco, whose power we want the world's expert on Saturn and was Saturn looks like and how sad and behave Heavily NASA Imaging team for Cassini still there still in orbit around Saturn Cool Rock in the boat, gosh and I somebody's chokes after the beyond, say, Saul came out. If you wanted you gotta, put a ring on grass, is its comic there's a picture of Saturn and but, and am it's, how Saturn got her ring? If you want me, I need more than you saying you left the house there was a ring was sad really how Saturn got a ring, so Jupiter put a ringlets. What a ring you keep it up, so Carolyn programmes
fascinating background, she's, a new Yorker and, let's find out about more but her academic trajectory. I went to the State University in New York and stony book to extol hometown girl, basically oil, India. So after that you went to Caltech for gradual idea and focused on what topics. Well, I went there because I was just told by the people who were my professors at the time it was actually the best place. I could possibly go. I didn't think I'd get in, but they encouraged me the best way to go for your interest. Yes, obviously, when I knew this much, I knew that I wanted to be a part of the American space program. I did not want to do stars and galaxies Rynason ships, two stars and galaxies museum. This planet- yes, that's right, maybe someday- I don't know, maybe they'll send you neo supper, but you I could assure that this budget to bring me back. Ok, so Caltech operates. The jet propulsion laboratory remind you. This was a nineteen. Seventy four, so the APOLLO program, of course, had came and went fellow had just ended in Germany, too ass a girl too, but we were sending spacecraft other planets, and I want to be part of that. So I was encouraged to apply to Caltech. I did I got in and I went site unseen. I find it remarkable. These days is due regard for parents to take
the kids to various colleges to see which ones radio around here to find out. I just said by guys I got on a plane and went to Caltech. I've never seen the place before and there I lived in California to do right by your dreams. Oh yeah yeah, I loved it, and so tell me in the seven I mean. Excuse me, I say I loved it. It was you know they said getting into. Caltech is incredibly hard. Getting into Caltech is easy compared to getting out. There was very hard to get out from you. I did it. I got my degree and got out that impunity a phd here right around. Then we are planning for the great Voyager Planetary, or were you open up an active enough to be a part of it? I wasn't part of it.
planning. Now, because I wish to urge, was launched in making seventy seven seventy seven, I was in graduate school when I got launched. I remember the excitement about it and then I took a leave of absence cause. I was lost and trying to find my way, and by the time I came back, it would show that existential meandering earlier resurfaced, whether you will kindly yeah I've been wrestling with this on my life. Had an older woman worked sensitive to your need, really would be more sensitive anyway, so there I am Caltech struggling along too intimidated so much because everyone there is so incredibly smart diamond, would have been there other. So here I remember when I was about to say for my old age rise winning physicist. I see Richard Feynman Walkin around talking to himself. That was a common seen Caltech. He was a brilliant. He probably no one else can stop it. You don't fall for you know, we'd, be you know the cookies and t before seminal reason. You see people melon around having pleasantries and find it would be on a blackboard, probably writing string theory or something- and I was so intimidated- and this is a regret, a mine, so scared- I didn't, take a classroom, but anyway, so I took leave of absence at one point. I was caught loss. The project I was working on didn't go well. I went off to live in the mountains outside a bolder. I lived in a cab and I was charming would believe in and I was trying to live like an or go hippy kind of person. Ten years too late, you're seventies excellently in a little late, but there I was end. Then I went back to Caltech as I just hated the thought that I had quit and I went back and I got immediately involving Voyager and the rest was history at stake. I found myself you needed that hitching a ride on what I consider to be humankind's greatest scientific exploration. You need that little excursion to foreigners overdue yeah and land land you're playing a brought. My spacecraft, infra lamps, usually lander, spaceship suffered as a result of that. Actually, I encourage people in two ways. I saved probably good for people to take a break between neither college in graduate school, maybe even between a high school in college, just to go out and taste what the world is likely for you. You know how restrictive and everything constructive academia convert all about rules yeah only take a break gorner, but it's also not official environment economics has, even though I think it's special and I'm glad I was nurtured and raised in it. I think people need to see what the real world is like in. So that help me not. Everybody takes a stray path. Gags actually coming pursues a Phd Ashraf physicists and she was chop and wood and a cabin outside a bolder colorado and unlikely departure for especially for a new Yorker from the broad exactly a year.
so she was recital people who are using an axe in the Bronx are not shopping. What I'm just set in motion we talk about my car. I could I got people you. I know you do and they have access in. That's what scares me so so she she would rather than Voyager and voyagers and extraordinary mission, because what we knew at the time was here's a mission that we're gonna send to more than one planet. But how do you do that because the planets Different parts scattered around the galaxy, but we were able to we might might planetary brethren at the time, were able to calculate a trajectory for that spacecraft that could get gravity assists from one send it to another and visit most of the planets in this
a system by doing so without using any extra fuel? So when you said, gravity assess what I'd like I M Ling side effect. What I mean is if you tried to go from planet planet at will. That takes fuel right, and this is just a it's. It's radio, transmitting antenna and some scientific experiment. There's no engine pack on this thing: it's got some adjustment fuel, but that's about it once this thing is set into emotion. It is a ballistic particle in the our system and what you want to do is aim it right, so that it could slingshot around one planet come out in a direction. in the next planet is rife and then slingshot around goaded a third planted in the fourth plants? I planetary, pinball planetary, Billiards, nice. It's like a four cushion pool shot. It was night, it was sweet, it was sweet. It was Newton's laws of mode
and gravity, just rock in it, and so yes, so it's like a swinging. It's a swing shot effect, but by doing so, if you do it right in the right direction, you can gain energy for having done so, and so this is how you can make sure this thing just doesn't slowdown and stop and fall back to earth right, and so with we built it was called the grand planetary tour,
the Grand Brianna glaring tore hours, because a beautiful thing sounds like a sixties, ban, grandfather, rail road and we open enough with the grand planetarium love it. I love. I love it when bans take our names or the fifth dimension, when Breach five dimensions yet, but they were, they are already was the sixties. Yes, you did have access to dimensionality, I gotta say I'd know what got them there too, and then the Heineken, the first Heineken Party commercial, where this guy walks enemies dancing in places everyone as he walks through the crowd break. The ban in the background is called the asteroid. Galaxy tore sweetie got out. I was loving it between the then asked for a galaxy. Didn't access nodded, took it to combine asteroid again.
seeing the same phrases a little, not right, but why did I began given proffered outcome? Sit there musicians come on, let's get a break their music, so it's great that four people just wondering: what does it take to become a scientist? It's not. How narrow and defined your trajectory is. It is how broad is your ambition light and how open is request for now. You too can take the grand planetary tour and she did it and sheet, but she will learn in I've come eclipse where we had. I played out. Ok, no, we'll find out. You are right now listening to start talk, radio, we're on the web, STAR talk, radio dot net and we actually tweet at STAR talk. Radio and were Facebook Sty talk ready. I think
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we're here. Another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying We are back to start operating out of nice across the table from yes, sir. We're Argo Sound studios in New York City. Yes, we are that's cool. my smiles through the wind up it s. What we ve got my interview with Carolyn Porker she's, a fellow astrophysicist planetary scientist. We find what made her tick because she's delivering US images of Saturn as head of the Cassini Imaging team and in her life trajectory we find out some of the people who had an influence on her, which includes Carl Sagan soccer up. So I think that sometimes I think,
you guys got across a I've Carl Sagan generally. Do everybody's got Carl Sagan story. You know he was very influential, influential guy, that's this kind of what it's all about. Let's find out what her Carl Sagan story is all about. I was immediately drawn to Carl Sagan: stick if you wealth measures a billions and billions billions and billions that we have to try to Carl saying that because call never said, he'd ever said they could say it anyway, but still I give you b plus ok anyway, I don't know where you picked up with what Carl Sagan was doing, but I got completely hooked when I was an undergraduate and my professor at Tobias Owen, who is a colleague of Carl's, invited Carl to come and give a seminar in the spring of nineteen. Seventy two to talk about the just fresh results from demand and nine mission to first orbital mission of Mars and in preparation for that. The assignment was to read the book intelligent life in the universe infected with you, which corporate and co authored yeah. That's a translation of the original russian book written by prohibiting shores, cloths he's very high to say it is a case where it shouldn't be. I don't, I would say we think Russia. What are they doing? Really? Yes, but you know the genesis of that book. Sagan was very audacious as a young man. He took a book that was already written and spliced Intuit he's on paragraphs in words and thoughts, and they went to a lot of money and says hey what do you think of this, but this audacious actual resignation, but the book I was pushed away like a chapter, we can read the book over the whole semester, something I stayed up all night and read the book as I felt entranced by it. I just was completely hoped so first books of its kind to be published- probably scientific at my inform- do assessment version, the universe, Airways, precisely scientifically informed assessment of a topic that people always thought was so fluffy in science fiction that serious scientists never paid attention to it. That was, I think, one of Carl's greatest contributions was getting people. You know to consider this topic in a serious fashion. Anyway, that's how I came to know of Karl tricky to embrace all mission statement. I came to embrace this mission statement, but I mean I don't feel like in the course of what I ve done and I've done a lot of Carl Sagan type things I don't ever feel like. I'm copying him I feel like I was drawn to his message because of the spiritual quest. I told you a bizarre. I feel, like Carl, really tapped into he kind of offered people, the spirituality in science and the study of a strong you, don't you agree over two percent, the turn astronomy from science into a humanity's herdsmen Beth. It really yeah, of course, strongly that built in potential, because people look up and out into the universe, anytime someone
think of where their gods live. It's never under their feet. I did it, I ll knock down, they methodically, and I wonder has to do with one which will join. You know we look up at our parents. It might even be like a physiological tangle, yeah you're, someone out into the thesis on that. Looking up, you look up to something bigger than you and more important in you. Yes, you start out that way. You yeah their effect. Look up is even idiom right. I look up to
we are literally, if I'm toward a new and looking up to you, but we all know that means yap. I hold you in high regard right. We hold the universe and high resigned, because we have to look up to see a moment. If you had a look down to see the universe and might have been a whole different will differ. The important issue of physics went to bed the spiritual endeavour, but people nothing of digging interacts as being the spiritual other than Joe physicists themselves or shadow Giorgio physicist, the earth so the Spirit of the universe. So so we locked out, so we have a spurt up in the sky and without their no spirit on the rocks. I think we just concluded that no scarce in the rocks ass, a shame why you like raw like rocks, You never told me that I am a big fan of rock you rock collector. I you know I, for a little while I had a little tiny recollection broker a little while at its core,
the rocks in you in your blood and in my head, an eruption you're not irrelevant, because you're not exactly Norbert Carolyn speaks from the heart and I think you we feel that when she talks we did we sense it as she we feel her hers. She saw a child like enthusiasm, absolutely for which you talkin about very passionate. An enthusiast Kennedy asked Anne. You put your three parts that in four parts Carl Sagan who are two parts, one three parts, the other. You got a whole. You got it, you have a you, have the person who would be heir apparent to going to the most majestic planet and telling you want everyone about it, ace, spiritual, look at you. Waxing poetic about Carroll and very clean Saturn is mostly gas and if you it's densities, less than that of water, so
It would actually float and few here with itself wait a minute we gotta go out when we come back more of radio minimum. Rebecca start on radio. Neil address Thyssen coasting jackknife. Yes, sir love have mutual. I love being here. We got my interview with the planetary scientist, a friend and colleague, Carolyn Pork, yes, fascinating woman did I leave you dangling? Yes, you did and I get that you. Basically, how do you do that
You hit ran out of time. Are you hit me with their Saturn floats thing, for everybody knew that nobody knows. What do you mean by Saturn would flow. Ok, people say things are heavy or like a really mean that when they talk about it, usually there really referencing the density of a thing: ok, so yes, a watermelon is heavy, but it floats got rights. So Saturn is a density, is so low cost, so much gas in it right that any piece of it you scooped out. If he scooped out an average piece, it would flow I'm water, nice and when I was a kid, I wanted a rubber Saturn. Instead, a rubber, Ducky Saturn floated that's great play within my term, but no one made it serve any get right on that lets. You, kids kit, top people, one of those rights so Carolyn is. It is headed the imaging team Cassini, let's find out, let's find out what that is. I want to know who she is
The pictures that we create was regarded the imaging too on the head of the imaging team and they are kickass fricking also, especially because we never see certain from these extra angles. The spaceship gets because the spaceship is orbiting the planet, and so you showing his pictures with Saturn eclipsing the son. I'm not gonna, backside a sad to see that I now it spectacular, but I do want to say that I have made it my calling to make our pictures process them to be as beautiful as possible. I just went over the top with this, and no one had really gone through this kind of effort before they very, very beautiful and proud of that they, like my babies, but no you realize. Maybe you know the story. The idea of even putting her normal camera on space probe was a controversial decision when it was first on back in the nineteen. Sixty four, the poet doesn't really know the scientist, don't really care about photographs, they want a measure something else through a measure, the magnetic field or the polarization they want, a measured things that are not just what the thing looks like so now you raise this too high arc right. Yes, I have, but a camera is just a telescope with a two dimensional array of detectors. The detectors gather scientific information, just the fact that we can composite it into a beautiful picture does not under mine the scientific utility of the information collected in the picture, so they are still scientifically useful. But it is true that in the very beginning of the space programme, the first spacecraft to go to a planet- I'm not talking about our Luna missions, but the first spacecraft to go to a plan and I think, was launched in nineteen. Sixty two was the magnitude of Venus, and I am told it was Carl Sagan was arguing to put a camera on the instrument, payload vision that some combination across her going Bruce Murray. I guess I guess I'm hearing now. The Bismarck played a role in this. Two of them are ahead of the jury, proportionately Anna and, above all, a professor from Professor mine Geology, I'd Caltech YAP, and they, I guess for arguing for the camera and many other people the opposing side, one. There was no camera mona too, but on every mission, since they put the idea on the table to be reckoned with him later, missions right and the people who opposed it would just in the end shown to be ridiculous out there, but they thought images were for kids and it turned out that they have collected some of the most scientifically useful information. Images. Tat turns out to have been regularly. I did my thesis on basically on dynamics by measuring the positions of rings and so on in images, but while very haven't. Who would I mean it's so weird that people would think that imaging of another planet held respect where you get there right is not a good thing like you know, it's gone
Casey without a camp, let's go to parents. Did you bring your pictures? I would help needs, but how do you mean a lot pictures? I want the parents in oh I'll, just tell people, so there is a skeleton, looking structure, that's a kind of needle like and its spewed call. You should see. That's ridiculous, so I mean every remission has had since then Sir said, Sir, we're good there's a similar sort of power points That's very society, which is an organization founded by Carl Sagan others from now headed by bill. My by the way, the Pledge H society wanted to put a microphone on one of the missions to MAR so Mars has blowing wins. You be able to hear what's going on and Israel resistance to that idea, but these are extending our senses to another place right me y know. Why not? I mean that's great, like I said the people, the head up their boat, but she said: oh they just weren't. There I mean
where more polite about it yet then either I think you were right. Butt head of the Bible, where we come back more of my interview with planetary scientist, Madame Saturn Carolyn, poor girl. Welcome back! Do you start talking radio, I'm the other grass station Chuck nice with me in studio here York City? Yes, Sir Jack love to have you here always a pleasure. We're like towards the end of my interview with planetary scientist, Carolyn Porco. She visited me at the hay
by the time limit of a memory lane for her being a Bronx native in every her first night sky, the same as my first night sky, the nice guy Laden Planetarium and I made sure to chat with her for about an hour while she visited and she she can't say enough about the Voyager spacecraft after having visited all these planets on this gravitational multi p. Could trajectory yeah? It then left, the solar system, let's find out with that
I did think it was a momentous juncture and its symbolic, ok, you're right, it's only hardware but its symbolic, because I mean even the message. It carries all those pictures and symbols manner, the riddles matter. Cereals really really matter, think of myth, Smith, zero built around symbols, and so this was so symbolic and I wrote a little piece for I think it was an efficient who was the BBC or something- and I said this event- voyagers passage out of the influence of the sun and into interstellar space was like humanity's arrival at eternities door out beautiful, that's beautiful. I kept thinking, it was sure manatee just walk in at the front door. Yet out into the symbol of figures creatively, rounded openwork soldier was justifiably then a page one story with the mere terms of course, and what really brings people along in understanding or at least appreciating what scientists do the work? The scientists do in teasing out the workings of nature, which is kind of like their fundamental job and Cotonou. This he intuitively knew this is, is to make them appreciate the symbolism in what scientists do and also the spiritual nourishment, and it provides while sorted major after and breaks the fact
learn something new about the universe. You are enlightened in ways
they go beyond just intellectual. You can be lightened emotionally yeah and I think Baron lies this whole duality of. Do you look at the immensity of the universe and the almost non existent scale of our little planet, and does it frightened you or do you feel empowered write to me and I'm guessing you too, with the fact that we can even know anything about the universe to me is enormously empowering. So I don't look at the university. Their pictures look at the galaxy the milky way and appreciate- which I think is one of the cruellest experiences around right. Looking at the milky way, listening audience know that she's gesturing, with her hands upward and outward sky medical listening audience know that I'm an italian American and I can't talk without my ass up to look at the milky way and appreciate that you looking edge onto a disk. That's enormous! That kind of thing right. I mean to me it's empowering to know that, but so many people seem to say, oh, but I feel so insignificant. Then I think sciences completely. Empowering so have you ever thought of starting a halt? You mean I'm not a cultivated happier. If you keep this up, I thought he's gonna come out of people who do feel lonely small. You give them the universe that there is a requirement for cocoa armed. You know that conference that both of us were at the Beyond belief conference, where I said you ought to be the first reverend of our church and science operators to thirty six on the care preserve, you're versu stuff. When is the silken studio soccer right and I said to the audience, I said that I thought you should be the first version of the church of science. We sort of movement, we could get you good. Salary should not occur at its role as a sector up. There are no no, no light Sabre lifesaver, ok, but anyway, where was I going with this? I have no. I did you know, you know those videos of us all of us here was a conference talking about what does it mean to believe in something and is a justified as at night there was much more than the science play. What role is religion play and believe in? Should they continue to where they are changed? There was a workshop about maybe only a hundred people. Well, it was a workshop where we didn't actually do much. We never accomplish anything, but we talked a lot worse. These view to videos right you you have one I have won by some group took mine because of what I said in ITALY, and I said things like: we should start in church. It was kind of time sheep and they christened me Saint Carolyn Year is not a meeting on Saint now in some kind of group. I don't know what they are, but I'm Saint kept but, of course, to miracles are not according to them. Oh relax, the modern requirements, dumbing down, health care work, so she's tone
living their spiritual boundary between science and the sole science and emotion, re science and insight into our place in the cosmos, and so she surely a chip off Carl Sagan right there. I kind of like the idea of a church of science. That's all I'm saying is. I am all about not paying taxes. What that's that's great, that's reason to be religious? That's true, but it's the best reason, but I think the people once they see how spiritually fulfilling just thinking about the universe. Is that can this be the men, bring them into the room and- and it has the added benefit of being sort of objectively, very
that would still would distinguish it from any other endeavour. In this universe, Stephen listening to start talk rating, we gotta bring this to a club. Jackknife being I pleasant, I'm the other s face. I have always signing off. Didn't you to keep looking up. Wish you listen restored. Talk commercial, free, joint start! compatriots for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com slap star, talk, radio,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-25.