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SEASON PREMIERE: A Conversation with Tim Ferriss

2020-01-06 | 🔗

For our Season 11 premiere, Neil deGrasse Tyson sits down for a one-on-one conversation with author, entrepreneur, and investor Tim Ferriss to explore the writing process, neuroscience and psychedelics, marine biology, science fiction, and more. 

NOTE: StarTalk+ Patrons and All-Access subscribers can watch or listen to this entire episode commercial-free here: https://www.startalkradio.net/show/season-premiere-a-conversation-with-tim-ferriss/

Thanks to this week’s Patrons for supporting us: Saul Flores, Augusta Golian, Alexis Collins, Eric Morales, Solomon Nadaf. 

Photo Credit: StarTalk.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode commercial free stuff talk fans near the grass Thyssen here, your personal astrophysicist and as we enter, Eleventh season the asset, it dear you the eleventh season of start up. We ve done to move the posting time of our show from Friday nights at seven p m to Monday afternoons, it's three as Many of you to listen to start talk when you drive Walker The train or use any of the mode of transportation throughout Europe. Verse we want to bring. You start talk right when you need thanks for listening to the star, talk, podcast and remember
Keep looking up. Welcome, start on your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide knocked off begin right. Now. Welcome to start on the grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist unreal occasions, I sit down interview someone whose presence is powerful, attaining an enlightening all at once. In the frustration that comes out of that encounter. These sons firing enlivening that we must depart from our usual studio format, exchange for some one. On one time on one side the occasion I sat down with entrepreneur author in podcast, her TIM Ferris, that interaction, let us all a star talk to break format for this special episode instead of our usual panel, live in studio, export guests, comedians and scientists. What follows
my interrupted conversation with him from start to finish, Miss best known as an angel investor and adviser for start ups, the most notable startups he's either invested in or advise our Goober Twitter ever know and task. Rabbit he's also the author of several books, including for our work week. Before our chef and tools of titans. For this first part of the country, station. We got to know about him and the life they prepared him to become such a prolific author. So let's go conversation now tell Sir Welcome too. Thank you for having me, so you have to do. You have a pug cast of your own, whether we say what would be a name for that part. Where my friend suggested TIM Tim Talk, talk, which I visited, unfortunately for Kevin, but it's called the tin TIM Fairy show
Really popular Pakistan were like about it. Most is just how the hell you have. Just as a general point of philosophy, you have restructured how people think about how they make themselves what they are unfair characters. I there is fair. I try to do in its very personal view, can't major in this school, you cannot use. You invented this borrowed bits and pieces from a lot of people in a Ben Franklin did something so lets you during your friend, but for my good friend bad brain. Go way back. I think the they self experimentation is really from a lot of different influences? Well, let's go back. So when you grew up- Were you Jimmy a gig underbelly that, like your friends, didn't know,
oh well, my few friends that I had the damage had subjects who never really listen, Ramsay, because a deep profile wounds was born premature out here on long island and was buried her small, so badly bullied as a kid about six great, so you'll bullied. Why Bobby what? What are you doing to be both how we believe that was the smallest kid Maclaughlan was kid, that's it that's it and that a lot of physical issues, respiratory difficulties, because I had long problems when I was born premature and you're sickly kid. I was a weakened and that explains a lot of things, including, before dungeon the dragons refuge books.
Things you can do a lot of things. You can do a lot of things. You can do when other kids glad to reassess sir, not in the middle of the war zone and the books largely untapped, because my family very early, my parents did something I've, always very smart, also a necessity which was they said. We don't have much budget for you bikes for this or that, but we always have budget for books and that meant that a trip to the bookstore, specifically to the remainder table was really exciting for my younger brother and for me personally, and I gravitated to marine biology. Typically books are sharks. Because out here on the stand, I had learn very early that Clint it's clean? is the crazy shark Hunter and Jaws was. He's, got a guy named Frank Mundus who lived a Montague I went and met Frank one point. My mom took me on a field trip
to go meet him and he was a real character. He was a sharp hunter later became a shark conservationist, but he wore in a strictly and out back, had had a big hoop earring painted, Toenails and he was an excellent storyteller. The guy wasn't a scientist by he catalyzed an interest in re biology, and so I bought books on sharks, fish encyclopedias of all different types. When I had the opportunity and so it is fair to say that I was definitely under up until six great than that somewhere, I gained with all that happened before six great I'm thinking you're in high school? I started cause no, this I'm meeting sharp hunters this unthinking, you're older. These lies this started very early, so I remember in third group, sitting on the stoop. With this, this big hardcover book things called fishes of the world and the subsidy
each time taught my mom. He shouldn't bring that book to school, held destroy it. She said you don't know my son he's not gonna destroy that book, so they, You started really really really. Ok, so you go from the bully little kid in the class to someone who's was our mission go, and so was the science element of this. There was not an act thought it was a really cool, it's really cool, but I ended up later, as I learn more about it and an interest, a very narrow interests, an expert sharks anything that was dangerous to man. Basically, its apex. Does it mean nothing is a predator to it right, there would be. They picked credibility as humans in a way are humans are the most dangerous apex friend. No one really hunts us except ourselves, and right right or sharks set sail out of human fatalities from Charger bar negligee. But the fact that there were species that still
demanded a certain respect from humans is very appealing to me. That then broaden? So I went from just looking at sharks to more broadly fish and I want to be marine biologist. Fifteen fifteen continues a real just cause was clear just because it was cool, and I read about Jocker stone these people who were diving, gathering samples, running analyses of various types, and I found the entire women of what I found in the classroom, very boring, fascinating in the sterile context of a lot of school classes. It didn't grab my attention, but when it was will be presented in a story of some type, which is why frank with such, not because new science, but because he was good it at grabbing attention
Every takes we'll take a definitive against their will, take its that's, how it started and it certainly Emmi continued from their ended up veering in a sense by the time I got two more skipping some stuff by time. I got two fresh me colleges neuroscience as more interested neuroscience, because my first major actually because I have also listen partisans on both sides, my family, so is able to watch getting their figure of the decline of cognition at first hand and that tariff and I also want to try to help my parents potentially or their brothers. Sisters incident. Does that also motive rate you to make everyday day it does it does it also motivates meeting not focus excessively on lifespan, but their functional held span and looking at how
Different types of interventions can extend functional health, spanned which define across a whole bunch of parameters, but certainly not forgetting the person's name or sitting with five into conversation with parliament, it certainly is still as each one better. So ok, so now it's coming into focus how this life tat is arc has come together, in the books, you written you're, trying to to motivate other people to make the most in bed, that's what they are in their time in their investments in who and what they can be. Like I get the list of books, ITALY One of these showed up in my office Did you send it anyway? I did not that it was the was the before our body for about it. Wasn't the one not before our chef, foreshadowed into doesn't
I got the data, if you don't remember two thousand to our most. It's like these are big books. There, big books there there you're an adventure books are both face, some Very nonlinear, allow it but the Arabic, their big, which spent a minute on each on each book here. So the for work week, yeah we're You try to go with that. That book That was nice little book in the sense that I heard one read books by accident. Well, he was actually, after my senior thesis and college on native english speaker acquisition of China. Japanese characters so long at the semantic and and phonetic of pathways, and was that a native english speaker to use to accelerate the acquisition of EAST Asian right systems and how many majors did you? Have so I started neuroscience. We can talk about. Why made the shift, but those hours in psychology technically with
rationalization and narrow, and went to the EAST Asian Status Department, with a concentration and japanese therefore our work week came in. Because it's starting to doesn't thirteen. That's all right! That's why stopped running around two dozen. Three thousand, via back by an incredible professor I had named professor, shall spelled Z s c h, a U maize, pulling out of a guy. We could talk about him. How many polymaths anymore Yeah, like an old world, fine one in modern times, it's a fascinating. They areas, competitive figure. Skater congressmen took a couple companies public, and was a revered professor, Harvard Business School among other places, also talk computer science staffer before that and I had been invited back to his class too. Yes, lecture toys here to talk about building boots
top start ups as opposed to venture backed outside financed startup, And the notes from that class, as my life changed from say two thousand, whereas on the verge of burn up, excels, work, lemme company two thousand I have two thousand six, life change. The content of the course or the lecture changed and turn much. Are you delivered? That's right, you have started off listen to you absolutely for every every book that I've written has been a book. I couldn't find for myself and I love that there's thirty million bucks in the world and is one that hasn't been written yet, and I got to write it if I needed it is coordination of that kind of audacious,
not only are honouring its operations and selfish itself into an audacious about ashes? They notice that better in at least, if you're writing a book, you yourself would have needed. You know you have a guaranteed readership of one which is always put your mom, the fisherman and as the before our work, because really the collection of notes from those guess lecture assembled into a book which was recommended by a few students. The fuss my friend of mine, who is another, but after the senior thesis, I had vowed not ready for longer than email after because it rushed me. I'd have very hard time that this is very, very difficult, not to the extent that it took a year away from college. Actually- and I give a personal reflection on the so certain to theses, masters and apace diseases. And have some books. Each one of those was giving birth not that I know what giving birth is like, but about our imagine, it is like
come out there. It is ok I gotta just go home now I gotta Do anything for like through you to regenerate We grow myself, my mind body saw them. Can have another conversation. Definitely also like childbirth, in the sense that these men and women I know have given birth, it I'm not doing that again and then a year and a half of vulgarity later here we are again this. I think that forget she has to show up. Otherwise, wouldn't you wouldn't be here first and last who species would be gone long ago without that little forget, for genuine written? You written a lot you ve written you ve, put together a lot of of writing. You ve been very, and it takes as its more traditional it's like I'm an expert on a subject and then there's some new stuff in the subjects who I write about, it creating an awareness that people didn't even know they didn't have rightly
that affair in total, and if you look at the forward, which is basically an entrepreneurial, similar ration of hidden assumptions governing behaviour, which influenced also by a bunch of the professors I had like bar hobo, who studied things should reduction, published a lot, a seminal papers that and creating Mr Sub specialization within psychology. It's really but hidden assumptions of fora bodies the same. What are the hidden assumptions that are limiting before our body, so we were just shifted books for a body. Two thousand tempt s hand and just to explain how for our thing, because it's it's a blessing and a curse and it sounds like an infomercial prodigal cover that is so does it arises when we be up front with us. So I had a number of titles for the book. The first book, which was turned down by twenty six publishers, Berlin and didn't make a great folder. It asked for some of them were selling,
Ireland unnecessarily radical. But, You turned down by a joint mission. Has a folder librarians only to draw his there were an early turned. Our fantastic didn't feel TAT S at the time, but in retrospect the lagoon and and about a half doesn't or dozen titles and prospective subtitles, and The publisher and I disagreed on on the preferred titles and instead of having a really emotional debate, I said give me a week. Let me test it, I'm very good at testing and went on to Google Adwords and created or isolated domain trees where his book titles creed, the advertisements that had the book titles as the headline v subtitles as the add text, and at least the time of unease Google outwards and a long time. But it would. Mix and match into the multivariate testing, for you
and then I look at the click through rate and if people click to just took them to an under construction page, because I was not testing the continent pages testing the attention the attention advantage of different combinations of titles and subtitles and, at the time, I was spending about two hours a week managing the business that I created, which was later sold. The two seemed to unrealistic to publish like four hours and their lecture for our sounds great, so I tested that and the, Combination of that and the subtitle performance me he stared deviations better than above everything else, and that's how it that at that. Choosing the titles of us. You know that's disappointing, because We all wanted, you to say, was a spark of genius one night overbear. Now it was the you actually applied sides of a prince and a few hundred bucks, and when it did, is it
over road? All the sparks of stupidity that a general blot a bad idea, that's what's when it out test it back up what they could get when in doubt tested and so you're gonna came up just recently written. So what was that about? tromp men is really a collar, profiles of hundred thirty or so what I would consider world class performers. People who are at the top of their respective fields that could be sports, it could be poker, could be those things business, certainly singularly achieving people singularly Jim people and what distinguishes them, and the way that I was able to discern distinguish them is by asking all the same ten or so questions and I enjoyed about that book aside from the I thought it was nice to actually have uttered thirty people write the book for me.
Which was which- and I am not going to be every book but the first to know the secret of the horrors three bone. Brutalized me so said today hello breather on that and see. That would work and did what's It's about that time that you asked these people questions. What do you do when you feel overwhelmed or distracted what have you become better at saying no to over the last five years? How'd you say: no, these are always real import people, don't realize how many knows or goats float around out there TAT S really what is really important and There are favorite failures, for instance, in what is what is your favorite failure or a favor failure, meaning a failure that fashion set you up for a larger success later and the proof else are organised in such a way that you can spot patterns because your heels you'll see commonalities across some of those answers, which means and this has certainly been my experience, interviewing people podcast that top performer
indistinct feels often share more in common than they do with say this sea players in their own field. There are a lot of share characteristics, that's travel interests, so that would be I would argue strongly for training people in school, certain attributes without specific reference to a subject. Yes, then you set them loose or whatever subject entrance them, and then they did you know how to tackle it, find it had enough and to the top of the grid completely and the third book before our chef is confusingly not only about food. It's about a framework, for learning a series of steps that one can use to tackle different subjects or skills they could be could be facts and figures decline. Technology could also be procedural, could be summed up. The physical skull and I do think that's it really important not to
someone that their ability to learn is somehow asylum in a single domain. That's not just paralyzing in some respects, but its. It creates blind spots in its dangers so that and that's a reason also that one of my most influential teachers was someone I never met. Who is Richard, find it I'm not a scientist, not a physicist but going to Princeton, also there is another measure as undergraduate, be the interest began with Charlie you're. Joking, MR find them as it did us only book events, the radical book I gotta be book either no, its not thinner than your books by the way by just let the record by far jaws, more more quality for sure and that books surely a dragon was divided skinny books and what appeal to me so much about finance in the last couple years. I don't do this kind of stuff. But actually bought at auction a collection of his encyclopedias
that he owned that he owned and bought when he was forty. Some forty two right now in fact that he bodies encyclopedias at forty with his track record and She went up to that point was inspiring today that, even if you still have much these references, but he would memorize large parts of Encyclopaedia Britannica in any case. So fine then appeal have his we accept the train from is that he dies from his from his office. Ok forget I just came up. The auction came up airy unusually for auction from a private pleasure, or none of his papers, or belongings have everybody russian and there are you, friends of mine who, like me, are obsessed with a handful of people, including finally, one friend has actually given his his. One of his sons, the middle name, fibre?
Just give you an idea, and he brought to my attention Just in case you haven't seen it. This is coming I'm afraid to ask you if you have kids what your name, the Fambly, noticeable scarier disappoint. Those conversations. I don't want to know no five minutes yet the fact that he took this this curiosity more the curiosity than the accomplishments that appealed to me and applied it to safe, cracking applied to cryptography, applied it to music? The in this ties in to your question about teaching people to learn I share your comment, brother of giving people a tool kit and at the very least, convincing them that There are certain principles that apply cross in a cross disciplinary, where the super import so. Finally, from he's always been a reminder to take the yeah see them might be, focusing in one place and try to
whatever I learn and see. That applies elsewhere and that certainly the case with a lot of the books, it's taken, something it seems to work in one place and try to apply it in. And see what happens rapid this segment of start up coming up. My one on one conversation with entrepreneur, TIM Ferris, see you in a moment comes before you, I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's just one and where to get out of hearing there, go to patriarch arms last star, talk and support where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen? The star talk, ad free, You can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never,
we're here another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying welcome back to startle, we ve been following my one on one conversation with entrepreneur, TIM Ferris: let's get back so my cracking the researchers tell me that you you ve, been into science fiction is what prompted there I've been interested and loved censorship, a really long time fantasies well, but inspection included and it started with a recommendation for my mom.
Said that I should read a stranger in a strange land by Robert Island and that really captured, my imagination there's a lot. You can learn from it as I also feel about a lot of science fiction and red sense. Doom, certainly fewer learn about leadership. I think Dunes, a fantastic book- you don't read: Nonfiction necessarily old, building minutes, for example, road building and read so do, size friction ought to put words in your mouth, but did science fiction enable you to think about possible worlds that don't currently exist, with some energy investment and wisdom. You might be able to get there and so in life are possible. World could just be a possible career path, was not otherwise visible. Definitely I thought that's absolutely and I think it gives you ones through which to look at present that allows you to
see possibilities that may have been invisible to before and certainly a lot of the product. Predictions description in science fiction have found a home whether that a self fulfilling prophecy or not as a separate requested by the questions is a it simply: art imitates life life imitates our conversation buddy, it's It allowed me to look at things differently and I'm all I enjoy finding prompts and tools that allow our force me to look at things and that's taken the form of science fiction. I can do a lot of Aramis with sensory substitution and all sorts of weird things. We could talk about that definitely force you to perceive the world differently yeah and then inspection and love of science fiction has has continued so
recently after the classics too and so on. Are you have people like TED Chang who as an amazing collection of short stories, of its called stories of your life and others stories, but hit short stories. Story of your life was doubted and turned into a film arrival witches readable fill it gets into. Language and all sorts of top, except that I but I appreciate- and it's not a reform where a linguist stars in its end its it's. So it. Somebody I just to be clear the version, there's a movie the title from the nineteen nineties. Storing Charlie, shame yes self, and then there is one more reason in the two thousand tens I vote which
which is an incredible story from film, because it uses the lower and the sexiness of science fiction to delve into topic. Some questions that it might otherwise be very sterile like how does language affect your thinking language if at all affect your perception of time, and this came about because of our attempt to communicate with aliens Elliot's that they would try to communicate with us who can without have conversation real. Basically, these war shock inkblot writer grams, and yet as somebody who studied japanese Chinese and so on, as an undergraduate, specifically the writing systems. I just loved that and it's it's a Trojan horse getting people interested in subjects that might otherwise be too sterile so that
another aspect, because enforcer of goodwill in most references, the Trojan war, is obviously many viruses. Computer viruses, I beg you. This is this- is a positive smuggled in the door. Then you explore the new city, you just etc. This is benevolent idea, smuggling. Yes, yes, sure fascination with psychedelic is this have a background interest in neuroscience, also as their connection there is. There is a connection, and it's it's also very personal, and I can talk about that. But I'll talk about the the neuroscience first, be the twist in neuroscience those actually one of the contributing factors for also looking in psychology first and when I was at Princeton aside our global and some other professors who had an impact on me. I was too to the work of Professor bury Jacobs. And very Jacobs focused among others,
but only narrow, transmitters such serotonin. Lot. Lotta serotonin in sleep. He also chemistry of the mind, chemistry, the mind and he had looked also quite closely at hallucinogens. And their impact on various various types of. Metaphor. I'm Benny, he didn't teach a class or that he does not have a hatred was thinking. I don't know if they didn T did not. But I will I wrote one of my junior papers on the physiological similarities. Guess you could call it similarities, at least as we measured them at the time between LSD reality, twenty five and orient sleep in turns out there actually there's a there's. A lot of ground which is really really fascinating and could explain. Some of the later findings to not just Hosty, but a lot of these. These
to return to a agonists which loudly second Alex or meaning that, they by into these these certain to error suffers, there are many other sectors that are their impact, someone's wanting to have an academic interest whose another thing that if you're if you're sort of a life coach that implies there's some practicality you can bring to bear, and I am a definite view myself more as a human guinea pig who report the findings more than life but be the personal reason for, looking too closely psychedelics economics and, more recently, taking almost all the energy capital of supplying start ups and applying its science. Is that
My family, aside from having Alzheimer's and Parkinson's on both sides, also has severe depression of asides sides, whether its chronic treatment, resistant or bipolar. That is something that I struggled with for many decades It's only really wrapped Jonathan decades old, We remain forty two, but since I was such a warning to many decades many cannibal jacket, I can follow on many occasions, have moody at hand. Frazier several decades, the one hand for decades I've I've suffered a major depressive episode and say at least every six months. And in the last five or six years with many different interventions. We could talk about not just pharmacological, have not experienced single extended depressive absurd, that's view,
atypical and thus the personal drive behind. Looking at some of these compounds that in the literature and certainly anecdotally, whether its add a third those are a large does or a micro does seem too. Part? One thing, anti anxieties and antidepressants properties- and this has been looked at it- places like Johns Hopkins and others. It's makes it so compelling to me is that you have, many: what would considered intractable, often intractable psychiatric conditions. Eating disorders like interacts, highest mortality rate of any psychiatric disorders, addiction, the various types nicotine opiates, says a compulsive disorder, depression, chronic anxiety, which may actually all be variations in the same thing when you look at functional mri and so on it specifically something called the development network.
So personally, as the depression to functional MRI easier, you act we monitor the brain activity that's right, and while you know what the person is thinking that rights are contracted, that's exactly After that, minister them given drug and visa, the psychedelic scientific exploration was suspended effectively late, sixties, early seventies onward, when the Nixon administration placed many of the classics, academics in scheduled one for political and not so recent schedule, one meaning high potential for abuse, no known medical application Heroin Heroin, exactly with with with corresponding penalties, so that's the real change I get a legal side, corresponding bellows the jail, illegal side, affection or are very, very stiff. So that's the personal. So so you think that tabled what could have been.
More exploratory research that could have helped people, is it just a hundred percent not only not just for therapeutic applications, because you find that In some instances, your words nicotine addiction as an example that job Doktor Matthew, Johnson Hopkins look very closely at nicotine addiction and with two or three administrations of source Ivan, which is thought to be the most active molecule from secondly, perspective in magic so called magic mushrooms, some Slawson mushrooms- synthesize suicide, administrate two or three times with psychotherapy. It's not a daily drug and Six months later, I want it later in the study which people can look up, there was around eighty percent obstinate re abstinence rate six month post. Compare that too
current best intervention in drug available, which is can be taken constantly and that might be high Twenty high twenties or lower thirty to some It is simple, some hold it sound, but not statistically stronghold you're, looking at a huge improvement and with the anti depressive facts and many subjects can also last on the order of months. That's from one or two administrations is not a daily drugs. My interest in this is in part hopefully funding science that helps us therapeutic applications with what people Sid are unsolvable psychiatric issues. We had always breakthroughs and cardiology, immunology and so on. And brings a tough not to creditors and psychiatry literally Magenta, there's really been very little circumstances arise and more recently ketamine. That could be considered breakthroughs of.
And they don't necessarily and his eyes work for everyone and not for it necessarily longer time end a a more fundamental exploration of consciousness, so there's the therapeutic application and then there's the explosion of consciousness itself, which I find equally certainly interesting. We ve got a close out this part of our show now, but stick around for a final segment. Wrap up. My conversations with entrepreneur, TIM Ferris We re we'd like to give up three I set out to the following patriarch patrons Eric morale,
and Solomon Madoff thanks guys were helping us as we make our way across the cosmos, and if you would like to get your own patriarch shall make sure that you got a patriotic outcomes. Last our talk, radio and support us welcome back to stock breeding, following my conversation with TIM Ferris, let's get back to that precision now, tell me more about like hacking, just just What does that mean packing? My life is fine. What do I want to hack it yeah you may not have. Do you mean light. Hacking is look at who is ripe to get to be like act. What kind of profile prevail if someone who feels the day
not optimizing efficiency in one or more years there. If there are symptoms of overwhelm a. Why is efficiency the measure of what is good slot. It's not that's a symptom. They can then led to applying certain took it out. I don't use the word lifehack much, but it's a term that is broadly used to represent any type of tool or short cut allows you to achieve a result or automate certain things, also achieving a result, much like computer ok, ok, so it's not that I live a perfectly efficient life is out there. Certain tasks that it I could have gotten down a little faster, better, simpler. Why tat helps that they give me time to do other things and welfare cars or those who told you find you, I think, that's that's very hack is really a versatile,
word and I'll, give you example. First just to set the context. Like you said efficiency, you can do a lot of stupid things. Well, that's not me Ricky, wise and making wise, and it doesn't make sense important. So I do think that what you do is more important than how you do when you need to choose your targets first and then apply good process, but Lifehack or a hack could be applied to language learning, anything that has a lot of assumptions and baggage and decades in decades of the same teach. Or the same person. Learning is generally ripe for some time: assumption testing and that's, where you find a pro.
Is that may be much much more effective trusting? Why not admit that? Maybe because it's been done this way for ever, that is the best way, someone already hacked it a hundred times and in a more hacks left for you. That might be true, but that's, and that is a hypothesis worth disproving. Isn't it a pauper excises falsification. Great, let's go! Let's try to falsify because worst case scenario. Is we figure out? Ok, guess what this painful wrote, approach that we have is the best of the best breed well, there's no there's no fast shortcut through this Almost a learning does related in what way, Metal learning is a is a systematic way. Approaching learning a new skill or subject ends. Does it assume you don't know anything about it at first, so does there's a colleague of mine, He said he was never good at swimming and I said, but how do you know what
so am I tried I I've flailed in the water and everyone passed me in the race so just gave up. So that was his measure that he would never be good and swimming. But I was not convinced of the ocean, but that's not the summit but it's not like I'm really crappy dataset we're, assuming that your first time out, if you will shine, then you'll never be great later on, and I think that a lot of people, who could continue to ascend if there? Trust and ambition directs them so, you you have ways of making this happen. I do and It's I'll give you a very concrete example, because you mention swimming, so I could. Swim meaningful to one in the pool back was justified. It that way till I was in my early thirties. I grew up by the ocean. And I had a huge fear of authority
I am sure, to persuade unwanted whereof of drowning in aid and very Cuvier drowning and anxiety and anxiety about it, and I not of confidence, mobility, swim and you look. It looks. If you're, thirty years old and got a little the Lotos Pizza, if you're not going to- and I get a date that these are not the best approach and what changed that is a friend introduce me to a method of swimming that was very counter. Intuitive com Immersion and with total immersion did is what I also other fields there was. There was a kinship, and that is they. Has to some sugar tactics.
Quite a more than one feels right and one of the approaches that that you would taken. This is little out of one of her one of the pieces of metal learning. If you are a novice or if you're an intermediate trying to get advanced advanced training at super best is to ask what the failure points might be. What are the factors that could cause me to quit? difficult and in my case, over things like this, liked about the lessons I take. It inside tried lessons not just what many times I had a friend hold the accountable we assign each other nears resolutions and mine was to do a one, kilometer race swimming swimming, and I could do one one pulling full length and total emerged does this was swimming. So what are some of the failure? Point kicking so I've been taught when I took lessons. Here's a kick Kick your way, we're gonna warm up, and I would flame out before I I would flame
be completely exhausted within five minutes. Starting in that was the end of less and I couldn't continued the technical training, so they put conditioning slash warm up before technique. Number two fear of drowning, had your monsieur drowning, don't practice in deep water practising a shallow and of a poor or what else breathing. How many people you know I know tonnes who can find a swim around, but they have no someone's unbidden within it. Gonna breathing. Almost everyone breathing what's take, breathing out Now, if you remove those things, how might practice you good practice by kicking off a wall in shallow water and practising gliding, so that you develop the proper fuselage position right and left and begin to understand what Hydra Dynamics, because what most people swim. They keep their heads and Ninety percent of their energy is going to keep their heads up and less Ten percent is actually proponents this would be an example of how you can give it. That means every next thing requires that a youth
a kind of analysis you need to that subject. No, it doesn't While the sounds like it, because I want to learn how to play the piano lessons. What I was thirty and then I stopped but I got up here. I want to end its stare down every day the top ass did the undone homework here. The undone homework and jumping into that is not about Aqua dynamics. But let me let me back up and zoom out just give you the framework existing buildings, So the framework for me to that I use not the only way, but it does apply to a lot- is this as an acronym d s, S ass, a three us the first up- and I can apply this to you- easily apply this to music. I've seen it buddy, music or to language, for instance. Deconstruction is taking this thing learn the piano
or learn: japanese and breaking it into constituent parts. What did the pieces body posture scales and the case of language of vocabulary, grammar or fluency? Writing? You can start to t sit. Out deconstruction, then the next step is selection, which is when you do and eighty twenty analysis of the material a broken out. Looking for these twenty percent of say, exercises or practices of produce. Eighty four of what your desired outcome is This is very easy to do yeah, I would imagine music and certainly in language, because you can look at word. Frequency lists for the words in the english language were previously lists a story. One hundred moonlighting words is taking on a word spoke here. Most communication is just a few hundred words, and then you have. This is the part that we are talking about is
sequencing, putting things in a logical progression, and that is, The secret saw something that gets ignored by a lot of people, even very good, at what they do is is the sequencing last one and this this might help with and on homework and the piano is state setting up consequences so that you have a reward and or punishment. That are more rewarding or more uncomfortable than sitting down oppression. Guess it's that the lab rat look a little cookie on this could be a good. He could be cookie argued a great example one we could set up stakes is by putting together legislate for weight loss put together betting, four or five friends is: are we gonna put in a hundred bucks and by the end of the quarter? We're going to before and after is where the measure our body fat percentage, whoever drop. Percentage wise, the most gets. The pot
in that case you have a reward and you have the loss aversion which is very, very powerful, motivator, but our competitive here? If you compare it certainly That is why the stakes, something that customers and there are tools out there like stick- is a nice. When Sd Icy K, K outcome, we can't let that, where you picking anti charity. They, your money, goes to. If you don't I share I'm dislike, but does it never occurred to me that surely there are, it's a charities out there. There that's pretty scary, Yak Fisher, pc charity. All this the right thing that we all agreed to do you got another one. That's right, I'm not make that happen, and there are there our different ways to approach this question of motivation and behavioral tankards. What I've done come from day one, but that the point being that I recall, hearing story of this stage. Let's call life coach who said he could
he could cure any kind of phobia and he had this woman come up. She said been able to get past climbing our stairs right, here's a ladder. We did so with a bang, voodoo and sheep, the latter came down here. I can you see, ladies and gentlemen, that administered giving himself all this crime and she said how you know. I'm really happy, because my husband told me if I climbed the latter. You give me a hundred bucks. Well, Mary, it's not the stage magician. Maybe it's incentive! So that's the framework and it does it does work for love I noticed that one of the friends of star talk you had in your in Europe, Jan eleven and so with sheep with sheer. Might she vineyard astrophysicist in we only as its passivity, cosmology she's, shape,
should have a cosmology friend. Everybody should have a cosmology friend. She is, she is it is. It is a rate not just thinker, but can you and I really feel she thinks about how she communicated write us right. So it's comes out this like well. I've I've just been taught by someone really thought this through a new net through we have proposed a brain hangings and she is also some one who thinks about think thinks about communicating important concepts and does a great job, and I I the part of the reason I admire both of them. So much they recognise that knowledge held is one thing. Knowledge shared and the knowledge shared, which is actionable in some way are three different thing. And they do really great job. I think of explaining potentially complex subjects very simply
not frustrates me people who read a lot, but then no shit, or anything that they were like people for books a day and it just sit there can, sure did you learn something wisdom? Is there some not just one reading, and so I think that out till I get to say that that selfish of them, I think it's it's it's it's maybe selfish, also delusion or in the sense that if you can t something you, I don't think you're standing who so you're so desolate. That's a good one. The people said that so you ve, if You want to test your retention and understanding about book. You just read: let's see you try to explain it summit, then Wilma then will now. I don't know absolutely it's time to wrap up this episode of stock. Hope you enjoyed listening to this conversation with the one and only TIM Ferris, if any of us,
contagious energy passion and curiosity emanated through this podcast the world will be better off for it. I think there's not enough. People liked him fairest in the world, and you know because he's so popular at yet his method on some level. Is so simple: it's how to make them most of whom in what you are how to derive happiness from it, how to bring fulfilment to your life. Your work, your home. Imagine if we all too thought that way and felt that way how different this world would be. You ve been listening to start talk, radio, I've been your host Neil, the grass Thyssen, your personal astrophysicist, and, as always, I beg you to keep looking up
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Transcript generated on 2020-01-19.