How much do politics, economics, competition and fear impact NASA? Find out when Neil deGrasse Tyson and Prof. John Logsdon discuss the space program, from the Cold War to the present day.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, commercial, free. Welcome to start off your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide knocked off begin right. Now. Welcome back to start talk, radio on your host, Neil digressed, hasten I'm an astrophysicist personal astrophysicist. I serve as director the hidden planetarium in New York City, which is part of the American Museum of Natural history, and I've got comedian Chuck nice in the studio pater with me. Did you see India as always to have you back so good you're already dead one of these segment? One of these programmes with me on space? Yes, we did and I gotcha back in cause. You were like role in it.
I love it waited chronicles of space, which is what space chronicles is but the actual thanks for that plugs. You'll get you know I'll make it up to you later No! No! It's like another dollar nano. I wrote a book a year ago, if I just came out of paper back like seconds ago, a space chronicles facing the ultimate frontier basing the ultimate front, I notice it it's a kind of Lamy title, but I really do. I had a different title in mind that I submitted a manuscript with and what was that? Failure to launch, dreams and delusions of space enthusiasm. I got that's all I thought of it now. Don't get me, don't! Ok, I will get me start all settled there. Let me started the publisher said: wait a minute failure to launch, isn't that the title of a movie or suchlike eyes like, of course, is the title of movie except they use the phrase. Thinking civil rights to use it literally exactly ok, I don't
your publisher S, but here's what I'm setting out over these airways right now smack that's for a year and acoustic cement and acoustic smell, that's sick! That's an awesome told they lend its every thought. I've ever had about our past present and future in space, but there are other folks out. They have also thought about space, including John lodged in John marched in he's professor of well.
Think of him as the founding director of Space Policy Institute at and where's at it. This is in Washington, Dc George Washington University. These professor merited a political science there and he knows everything about space, so I'll write anything about space in which I talked to him first, and so we can a feature clips of my interview with him that took place in my office sucker about his views of the space programme and by the way he's not only just an academic historian. They tapped him when the Columbia Space Shuttle broke up on re entry and lost seven astronauts aboard was set up to investigate that disaster. These can be turning points in the pathways of a mission statement for an agency. Would we stop going to space? Would we continue with a vengeance? Would we re shape it? So, let's find out his reflections on serving on that board. Did your report change NASA
could change the space program. It may not have changed. Nasa is proud of my dear what that settings means that the Bush administration is George. W Bush now read the report, which said that country needed a national goal. The shuttle was a means, not a goal, and so it was because of very here. That's all. We would do it S. Actually, a me it was a goal is flying. The shuttle became the goal, so Mister Booth January two thousand and four said: let's go back to them by twenty twenty than on the Mars. The so called vision for space exploration. I got the call on the commission S right, so I think that was the biggest impact of our report was too led to a declaration of a national goal, but that didn't engineers, his ability to operate to meet that go so that matters everything has to change. You can change one peace if you want a sort of alter the direction of an agency right. Yes,
However, the only thing I heard there is that day you, Sir, the commission over the utmost administrate yields. All I heard Chuck it was surreal. I'm watching Bush gave a speech. This is after the challenge after the Columbia disaster in the report gives a new offers a way to redirect how NASA operates in what direction it should go in, and Bush goes to NASA headquarters gives a moon, Mars and beyond speech single, go back to the moon and onto Mars and beyond, and he said I will appoint nine commissioners to study the path by which this it be executed than mine, Who is just a little delayed, but nonetheless the phone rings, and so we want to be one of these nine commissioners as coal that was kind of that was surreal was like that. So I get the car and so I was, I was privileged to serve, and you never know if what you do is go to actually make a difference, but you
bring in all of your powers of reason and an academic prowess and for others on the commission? Their sense of the business the cultural world there, and so that's what it wants. What the important thing is. Nasa was created in a different climate and a cold war climate right now, since nineteen, eighty nine since peace has broken out in Europe is a different one, Not so, but NASA had was, has baggage luggage left over from their period, and so you will get a wonder. How does geopolitics matter to the mission statement of NASA and less can go back to my clip and see which marks and says about that? If I remember correctly, China put up their first astronauts just before Bush announces this new provision to go back into space in a big way. So are you confident that the Jew artists. Wasn't. Where was driving that? Yes, I am matter for Y know. You could really
deal in the minority of what really high no losers. Sometimes you get lost in the minutiae like there's a merry and enter our puppeteer. So the White House decision to do something new in big was made in September a three month, but or the Chinese, nor think they had been I'd information about: no, I don't think they had another tellers, I'd information they do, they know it's coming and the chinese Ceta was coming Chinese, never gotten secretive, but they just say what they're going to do in do it. Do it that's good, I mean sure, there's always a competitive edge in what the? U S ducks always, but to say that the two thousand and four vision for space exploration was driven by competition with China. I think, is an overstatement even though, when challenger blew up on launching we had the ground the shuttle programme, there was no equivalent vision that came out of the time They also the world was going into space at that time. Well,
I've decided suspiciously circumstantial evidence that we come out with poor coincident with when China wants to go into space and is no report around the challenge of disaster, two things one is there: action to the challenger disaster was shuttle is key. Let's just get back, define shovel, we don't need anything new location, just fix the problem and move on forgotten. What was if you went back time magazine October. Fourth, nineteen. Eighty seven you're challenger there The one I ever saw the launch of the energy a rocket by that. So Union same the Soviets take the lead so there s competition, we kind of ignored the add on often with him on all this facility, as Chinese put a boy in orbit, and then we say: oh we're, gonna have a new vision for space. You know like, as we did not want them to be able,
to deliver things in space before we, therefore, we did and all I wanted to say, let's go to Mars and and we'd be on Mars, ten months later, military bases on Mars and in with their all right snap of a finger. When we come back more of my interview with John Locks in space historian, and I'm here and studio with Czech nice. Half a century ago, when the Soviets beat us into space with the launch of a satellite called Sputnik, we have no idea how we would beat them to them. Wasn't even Beria. Nasa didn't exist, But after investing in better at research and education, we didn't just surpass the Soviets we,
a wave of innovation that created new industries and millions of new jobs. This is our generation's Sputnik mom we're back STAR talk that words, Morocco, whose state of the union address yeah two thousand eleven talking space smack aspects: man, let's not issue with that speech, now, why's that, because you know everything sets out a great, you know how at the moment. Is it now is Sputnik Momentary, that's good! How did we react to the original sputnik moment? We went to the moon, that's cool now what I say in my books, bracing space, chronicle x. I talk about him in space chronicles. How can I accept that part of his speech? I talk about the man right and so I said he says we have a new sputnik moment when the first button, moment. We went to the moon. Ok, because with this but moment we will have hired.
Internet ninety percent of the homes. We will have high speed rail. We will have energy independence in twenty year. What I'm thickened psychedelic down the earth? but let us say that I'm saying we should have everything you just listed anyway. Sputnik moment is: let's go someplace. We never dreamt of. Let us create a future that could only have been assemble. The dreams of our greatest visionaries and having high speed internet no having light rail know yet.
I'm all hot spots hurts must not. Now I have to say with that is a very valid critters. I was all college some other moment. Dont know be taken, Sputnik, Nokia and Tellin me. That's why you gonna give me high speed internet. I am with you. I gotta have light rail to reduce the commutes. Don't go there, spooks! Sorry, yeah! That's not a sputnik moment idle pan, I'm gonna give you that our say your criticism was well received us. Thank you better. That's all in a book and space chronicles. I love me. Some Obama don't get me wrong, but it does mean ease without my criticism. That's all I'm saying so, but there is an interesting challenge that this raises. Every president has tried to shape a vision statement for our space. Can see right. But if the presidency are slightly different politically or have slightly different mindsets. The then NASA is this. Is this pink?
both were or a you ball, that's being bad it back and forth. Depending on, though, the whims of the age and whereas in the APOLLO error from Kennedy to Johnson tonight, and we went to the moon under each of those leaderships division statement was strong and steady. Sir. This is a challenge that we all face and then you can ask if it really expensive, then do it alone. Or do you d bring us some other people tat you bring in some other people and that's that's a huge problem, a huge challenge- and I say all right if you bring the people. Now you are subject to the vagaries of their politics. They have to
we gladly forces operating on your mission statements. I dont know that that will always work, didn't make it a little cheaper for you, but when do you have greatest revolt resolve when you're holding hands and cooperating a when our beat that sucker right, wealthier? Unfortunately, the latter right exactly, and so so what happens this week? We stop going to the moon. We build the shuttle we build space station- and you can see why do we build a space station beginneth was it to do signs know who it was for the Russians. Once again, we were competing. Ria rear reactor reserve react reactor human reactors, and so, in my interview with John oxygen, we chatted about the motivation the modern day motivations for going into.
In the space station was born at the tail end of the cold war. Ah, here the cold war is just kind of fading, but it was still there and we still thought about the Russians as our enemy. So I asked him about the space station. There was: was it really for Spain does what's the but what's behind, and he told me, let's find out one of the are you may do Ronald Reagan is, He considered approving the station was of the Russians. Have one right there was competitive geopolitical dimension to end that the right way for them once again we're reactive to Russian, not proactive mail, but it wasn't the primary reason. I think a major reason was the way to be a leader in space after APOLLO is too in other countries to work with us and stay from its start, was going to be an international project with the? U S is the managing partner? And yes, there is. Partners is yet to be proven or disk proven that there is good science to be done in the environment in the
absence of gravity micro grow, so I can tell you that there is good science. The question is: if you tell us scientist, here's three in dollars. Would you do science on the international space station? Would you build labs on our? No one would choose this basic now courts not to spend their three billion out, but given that you, We have a space station right sure you throw up some zero g, unwilling you have an agency dedicated to using it, so it's not fungible money, its money dedicated to that particular use. Now I remember watching tv commercials might have been during the football game one of these high profile Television events this back in the eighties there's a space station flying overhead you know what you're talking about a huge ship and you and become shadowed by the ship and then you see the russian c c c p, nor whatever they aren't cyrillic pronunciation right and it's not me it's then I felt that there was a tagline that commercial? What was it shouldn't He be there too. There were appealing to fearful
There is just as a kind of work with the commies right in the fifties and let's strong enough to get the programme started, but then he brought in the comments of the Russians right as partners when this back up so we ve got to the Russians after the cold war and after the fall of the Soviet Union. So now we have these way were space scientists who we did not want going to Libya, Syria, North Korea or I ran so now. The motivation for the space station is different. It has methodology, is political, has morphed right still geopolitical, but is now morphed, or we now want the space station to get all the people who would go to the dark side right, all the former member the Russian Space programme? We wanted them to stay in Russia and work with us, ok than they were on our side. Not there. Ok and that succeed yes, then in the critical,
after the station and thank Paraguay did. Where are we going to space station ripe Russia? So I mean there was a GEO political calculation meant. The risks of having another country necessary for success were worth the benefits, in them together with us, so it also means that we no longer have any that we were racing against. Everyone was friends, so weak spend money, even though not of war. I think there are other reasons I mean you and I differ a little bit on this because it's not resent we could take this outside well, first of all, the domestic policy
takes of. Space are strong enough to keep a programme going at a certain, let out a certain base level, and I think that's was sustained the station and the shuttle programme for a long, long time and continues even today. I think the lesson is you need an enemy glaring. That's really like the fact that he's very kumbaya, because it my heart, I'm the same way, but the fact is, nothing gets done without competition. That's all that's what it is. Where competition driven society kid me it's so so! we actually cooperated before with Member Palliser use. We had the APOLLO, we stop going to the moon, but we spoke with. You know what to do with the craft. And so we talked with the soil missions. It was quite the quite a bit forward thinking
time, little very united nation. Yet you know- and so it's not like that- we're not experiments at doing this, but I will notice that a policy use so the project No that was advancing a space frontier. It was just sort of cooperating within this space environment each kind So it also means that we no longer have an enemy that we were racing against. Everyone was friends, so we can spend money, even though not of war. Think there are other reasons. I mean you and I differ a little bit on this because it's not resent we could take this outside. Well. First of all that domestic politics of space are strong enough to keep a programme go
impetus for you to do. Your job is pretty much been taken away from the people who write the Czechs up the up and up here's. What interesting everyone complains about how expensive NASA is. Should we spend the money in a different way down here? You know in the nineteen fifty eight when it was born, it was one tenth of one percent. The federal budget are right, but then, of course you building you're capacities and new building the ships, and so at its peak tat, they talked at four percent of the a budget in eighteen. Sixty six adopted four percent then fell back again, but four percent. Oh my gosh four percent. No, actually that still small compared with military. Slowly, military so right now the budget in the military, The entire annual budget of NASA is spent,
Ray eleven days by the military. Look at that. That's what it is. That's how it s our roles where we come back more past present, a feature of our place in space have secret for you I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's. Just one and where to get out of hearing there go to patriarch arms last star, talk and sub, where does at the five dollar level or higher to listen the star talk ad free, You can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never,
we're here. Another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying We're back to start on radio check nice house. Yes, yes, yes, I got a nice in the house. Tweeting a czech nice comic, that's correct at its core banking and love our near ass. I must confess I felt other comedians as well about just been disclosure here. You know I'm I'm I'm not possessive, that not just say, and so we were talking about the space station International Space Station and how the reason for having a kind of morphed it was a product of the cold war and in a cold war ended because peace broke out and nineteen eighty nine and then we want to get the russian scientists, so they don't get our enemies north korean in Iraq or whoever we weren't there,
It is so that way they know bill bombs to our enemies. Answer MRS Strategic and I understand smart, but then when that was clearly no longer necessary that we needed to maybe we'll do science on it and then so What is interesting is you're stuck with something that had a cold war foundation, and now you see people sort of shoehorning in ways and means and reasons to try to still justifiable. But that poses the question. What might a future for the international space station be will be some other reason to justify cause it's expensive to keep their puppy go in and we only have Handful of people up. There was not the piano, it's not as a city. So my interview with John Lockstep within these expert on everything space I spoke to him at length about the international space Station and its future. Let's see how it goes right now, it's up enough.
From national lab to do right on it and is not just our section or is it the whole? No, it's just hours our section in other countries do whatever they want with their sexual. Well, we have forty nine percent use of the european and japanese laboratories, okay, so there's a wretched section and then the allied section, if the winner of the original partners, so Russia, two hundred percent russian right, our sections are represented us and everyone says, is fifty one percent them right, so we're quite the landlord then right. We are the managing port. So now you can have other countries going to and from the space station without any reference to us, because they can go up back on the russian soil use. We ve got all the seat. We control the seeds that Europe or Japan we have with you as to the space can independently biasing. Why? Technically because it's our responsibility to transport
astronaut around four of our partner countries? I didn't know that part of the deal so therefore, we now have the landlord we dropped. The bus and a trade we provide didn't actually pay for. The bus routes in this case were pain, Russia to be the taxi, Sir right right and so growing up in back. Do they pay us rent in time in the EU two agreements. They we're gonna pay us money and then their parliaments woke up their governments. Anyone that's not a very good deal, so they launch supply. Vehicles, both Europe Japan and a certain Number of those vehicles is equivalent to the value of the money they're supposed to pay. So it's all parents in kind donation, it's right. So how only think this bisexual lest in orbit well we're coming? it to at least twenty twenty. The hardware is qualified twenty twenty eight start breaking
twenty twenty eight. Well, probably improbably beforehand is born out of the sky, or at least not working. I mean you know the toilets or multi anyway oxygen, all that sort of stuff, but it costs three billion. They haven't. You got. How is it that a toilet can't work in space of all the universe, for your stuff to go, one of my areas of expertise is not. Hygiene aboard include hygiene, after twenty twenty, two, twenty twenty eight regions drop in and terrific? What happens you will probably have to break it up? now. Can we come down. One piece is too big big, so it would have to be separated in DE orbiting, the orbit and that's the coach for all crashing into the Pacific. Well, let's hope fortunately, a third of our longitude is an ocean right, so that you can we just to be full of space. By the way on the bar on the bottom. We douse lots of spacecraft. Allers by satellites are down there really and we'll go pick we're not well. We ve tried their who's. The we
the? U S: try to recover a soviet nuclear submarine, the Pacific back in the fifties, early sixties and what have they sailed, is We can find it now. They found it too hard to get up, but so, but satellite should be easy. Well, but what's left, them. By the time I actually the ocean and then the impact of hitting the ocean wrongly there's not much left broker. So it's our trash been she's. Probably wonder what the hell's going on? spending. The heavenly lit up in orbit is debris. Open, ended gonna, get it all out orbit right. So it feels like talk with the space station, inventing things to do for it. Well, even the geopolitics that birthday how are currently using this feels that way, may we really have just on earth, you don't expect a laboratory to be productive until you finish building we just finished building the station yeah,
porn point there is you got a station is three billion dollars a year and you handed to a scientist. I think you can do some really cool zero g experiments there, but no scientists in the right mind is going to say. Oh you just gave me three billion dollars. I'm gonna build face platform to do Sir Dinadan. That's not how they would spend the three billion dollars they just not. Why not they just what it is: better things to do with their muddle, LAD, Institute three billion dollars. You know, whatever is the cost of your lab on earth? it'll cost a hundred times that, to put it in space, sat right, so you can essentially build a hundred lapse on earth further one level with exact numbers which about that, and so I can have to worry about a toilet, backing up some very non
toilet right. I guess you know it be Debbie, a shame that we have to deal with this basis, because the toilet back. That would be embarrassing. Me for that in the history of technology in society, Euro, listening to start on radio and we're reaching my interview with Professor John logged, in whose a history of storing and an expert in space, everything about space and culture. When we come back more from that interview, I'm here with the Czech nice in a moment.
We're back on STAR talk, radio, Neil digressed, hastening we're talking about the past present and future of our place in space check nice. I got you you're too, thanks for helping me out a great to be part of this is like the paper back version of my book. Space chronicles was just released. Yes in as awkward as that plug is. The fact is. I've thought a lot about this and in my interviews with John Locks and we're short emerging, our perspectives for your benefit, and I am benefit for Europe. For you, the listener and just a quick note, wild no scientists would say. Let spend three billion dollars on us on a zero g lab. Handed as energy lab that changes the the money equation. And the government declared
the space station as a national lab like Brookhaven or Fermi labs or or Lawrence Berkeley labs. These labs that are under the management of the government do research in the interest of the greater good of the country, be it for security, military or for anything else, and in zero g there's like their valuable things you can do with the crew. Medicines are possible cancer treatments that can come out of its studies on aging, and so there there's a lot of sort of human physiology things you can do in zero g, and I look forward to the results tat can could come out of that. Provided the scientist, don't pick up the three billion dollars a year, now big question at everybody's wondering about what it does: the future of space embrace commercial activity. When can I go? When can you gonna go my spoke, which I'm oxygen about it and he had some views on them with them? I am very opinionated on it. You got here it before we done, but
That's good, John Logs, in view on the table before we continue I think, there's a gross understanding of what the term commercial space mean for me, I'm NASA has always had a commercial dimension to it right. They ve always been buying. Materials and eighty five and ninety percent of their budget goes to profit making firms or universal through through contractual gray and tall that sort of thing. So it's already that way. It's commercial in a particular sent. Ok, what is being proposed first, with cargo too. Space station and then to replace the shovel with crew to the space station is a different kind of partnership where NASA and the private sector, Do you share the risks, share the cost burden, the private Hector designs and develops the systems and NASA buys a services? Ok, so because the private sector, the premise is that they do it cheaper, morphine, The way
the economies of scale is actually all the normal sort of business. Trappings that fish inspected Tom, all all the american ideology that the private sector's more efficient than government, whether not that That's the premise! I don't have a problem with that. You have a problem that why do some people have a problem with a well because it means NASA loses a bit of control. They just trying to get to lower orbit. Who cares if you can What control do you mean you're on early put me in orbit, is put the letter on the airplane. Take a letter off. Airplane. I don't need to know anything else unless somebody gets killed in the middle of it. Ok, well, not that people haven't been killed before so you were that may be a mass astronaut will be killed on a commercial flights. There people that are worried are not one of that. What people believe only a dinner is not gonna. Have the best action well in that NASA won't have enough control deserted the safety of the vehicles. There is a belief for deepening
ass, a culture that only NASA knows how to do human spaceflight now suppose they end up doing it safe to everyone standards, whereas the game, we're ahead of the game. If there's enough money to get it done, you know that's not a finger, and overnight you got a rocket system. Yeah, so you didn't know that NASA's most Vanessa budget goes to corporate entities. I was flabby yak. Nasa doesn't do everything that it does right, which is that kind of perception that you get a guest. It is a little bit of that perception, but there's all of the aerospace industry serves NASA Boeing Lockheed Martin Grumman. All these folks and, for example, the next generation space telescope, that's being built by Northrop Grumman for Radio carry NASA's logo as the biggest one, but you? U part the curtains there, there's gonna be a Northrop Grumman logo, sittin somewhere near last Saturday up me, and so I think commercial spaces great. What the difference is crucial spatial never led a frontier, they can help us
and they can do our cargo transport than ever leader frontier can't. I said it's a really bad business model that beef six cuddling author is appearing nicely the ugly, it would say. Ok, take me to Mars. First, no one's ever been there before it has unknown, cos unknown risk and you might die Excel Gore. My investors at that point. So yet you could like do make it a vanity project and use corporate money to do it, but it's not a business model now right and you want to turn a space pro I'm into a space industry. So the government charts the way and draws the maps and final issue the friendly's are and who the enemies armed with a trade winds are then, once that's established, the Prime enterprise can come in afterwards and it's how Columbus started and the Duchess India Trading Company came and afterwards right, they weren't the first european state was Columbus, and so there you have, I am all for it. Let's run with it,
When we come back more on star talk, radios, space, chronicles in a moment.
We're back unstartled, media and you're. The grass Thyssen here check nice, nice. Yes, Sir Jack NICE Comic, nice comical, twitter, you that's going on twitter and you got some tv crazy tv show. I heard about it's got home strange on one hdtv get out, you burst into people's homes, talk about that's exactly right and the call that television is coming to my place to let you know tat ran out. I know what you're gonna say: he coming sixty minutes style. What we're gonna do a report on what meaning to talk to you about ever looked we'll. Do that off. The air will take that outside. So we're talking about the past present and future in space. I've been featuring cliffs from John locks. In a friend of mine and professor historian of Space- and we got on a topic of space, a privatisation of space good, and so you won't go space. Wannabe ties to tell you the truth. I would love to be a space to me to our. I want it, but you know I really want. I want to hold a suite of launch vehicles and you just set up the reason why you want to go into space, and you do
rap on whatever Rockets will work for that and then you go, and so I wanted to the moon. That's one combination. When a torrent asteroid, that's it, I will go to Mars and do science that military might have a GEO political reason for doing it going somewhere. That's a different combination. Sebaste becomes art excited about a whole space tourism, industry, industry, and I brought that up with John Locks and let's see what he says about then Virgin Galactica. It should Branson Company is gonna, be taking people up above a hundred kilometers right, two hundred k a pop, but that only require it's going three and a half times the speed of sound open
go up in back right. You don't you know when you come back room where you took off right and you don't even a heat shields and that to get to orbit, you have to go twenty five times the speed of sound. That's a technically a much much. I think I think, there's a whole community or people who are deluded into thinking. We go up and back today, tomorrow, we're into orbit not these are completely different. They are qualitatively different tasks. Task is angry for the machine and fuel at everything everything men get back re entry of that air. So I want to go back to the moon. The moon is not an Obama's plan. Wanna go next moon, you're, Mine guy I think the moon is three days away and all your eye like there's a new thing. This emerged just in the past couple of months of Billy Gateway at a particular point in space called the Earth Moon ELT. Who pointing at your side of the mountain S from which you can go all kinds of place right to do so in a balanced point right centre for
grant all of that sort of the suddenly. It doesn't take much energy to leave that spot target anywhere. Asteroids, don't ring my bill. There ain't much and an asteroid that would render you extinct does not concern well short, but those are not the ones we're talking about going to visit some as a target Obama. You were there. I was there said asteroid by twenty twenty five write to me: that's not an inspirational goal, but is it real? Is he gonna do it Well, that's! What's driving NASA's plantier, except that twenty twenty five that under president to be named later, that's right from the budget not yet established. We started to build the rocket. We started to build the spacecraft, whether we can continue this time. Follow through on a programme is tbd. We're already cannot in a good situation right, yeah, we'll make it worse, or will that stays the same or will it not matter? Well, I thought the parties, countries donor, safer internet and then doing just fine Germany for the first one. I think there is a
of political support to keep a program at some level. I made one of the things that people forget about APOLLO was that it was a massive mobilization, a warlike mobilization resource, we're not going to do that, and why not, if it can the economy. One I want to convince people NASA is in cement in our economy, then venture capital money should flow like rivers went well, you'd have to prove the point. Ok, to state. The point was hard to prove the point, because it's an experiment on a huge scale and which Emily one previous example of it right, but in that Arab Burst, all of our modern standing of our identity as a nation, the miniaturization electronics, it had a remarkable effect across a wide segment, so they can send us as a fly wheel and we tat ideas and energy from it
Not enough people feel that way. That's the job. You're doing so, I got a street grab people by lapel. Instead, here's what you're missing right. Here's! What we're here is an investment. You could make that your child your grandchildren would really benefit from that's the message. That was depressing. I'm sorry, but that exchange you to just have was depressing notice. Has little limits, there's a hidden text here, where Obama's each where he said. Let's go back into space under Bush on the commission that I served on it was. We would have returned to the moon go to Mars and beyond. Obama gave us speech just with more stirring, they said. Look, we been the moon, let's go to Mars and asteroids and everyone applauded. Then it was a way to make everyone who is tasked with getting us to the moon. Where did they go right? Macduff which went down which is basically you know, Obama just set, has twenty twenty five let's be from
he's not here, ok raising their interest in IRAN or he's back into the. Why and here's what it comes down to her kids, we're gonna get up PS through when you graduate from college that is gonna, get a video game where you get out of college, so I'm trying to work it. That's the whole point of my space, chronicles book and
The struggle continues. Yes, I like his idea of you going now grabbing people one by one by their limp house and just shaken some said since one ten today, seven billion to go or just Americans three hundred and thirty million to go, we gotta closer one out check always great to have. You are going to be any of Greece me you're. Listening to start taught you ve been listening to star talk, radio brought you and hard by a grant from the National Science Foundation, Neil the grass Thyssen thanks for joining us, as always until next time. I beg you to keep looking wish. You could listen. The star talk, Marshall, free joint start compatriots for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear. Learn more at patriarch dot com slap star talk, radio
Transcript generated on 2020-01-25.