Neil deGrasse Tyson explores the “front page of the internet” with Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian. Learn about how Reddit got started, net neutrality, trolls and more. With BuzzMachine’s Jeff Jarvis and co-host Eugene Mirman.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Skip the commercials support star talk on patriarch to listen to every episode, Commercial free increasing the mysteries of the many questions to be answered. We find ourselves searching for those answers as the very fabric of space. Science and society are converging woody. The Japanese? It's easy to mean the brakes, Daddy Glinda. Did you Graham or South Ass, do when they get lab apply.
This is start talking on your hosting the grass Thyssen. Your appreciable astrophysicist may also serve as the director of New York Cities, Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural, his My today, usually mobile phones, a happy man rate to be here. You know I have so much in your voice work now when I see you in person imagine the little characters. You're playing. I wondered It's really you or some animatronic version of you know it's a time the cartoon. So today we're featuring my interview with Alexis Ohio. Academic world and find people who do, and today we got journalism, professor and author Jeff Jarvis Jeff good. This is not the first time on or no I'm I'm honor to be back. I guess it and screw up too much eggs,
Give you access to all the most influential website to the day, because it can people are picking what matters, because they are become that that say the thousand eyes the million eyes for you that you don't have to then do yourself I have very little expertise in this. So any time that happens, we reach out into the academic world and find people who do, and today we got journalism, professor and authors. Jarvis Jeff right, but this is not the first time on or no longer to be back. I guess it in Europe too much that exact and your official tat, professor of entrepreneurial journalism, Akhuni graduate school, greater school journalism. So very good. You have two Botswana, that I love this title geeks bearing gifts, imagining new futures for news, so that's it that's an explicit recognition
that news is no longer in the hands of the media, moguls that we ve got up and coming whipper snapper is who are shaping that world. We hope, hope. Somebody shapes, as somebody rescues hope means you, don't really don't know. Yet we don't you willpower power. Everyone actively mould the actually wants to force through. Yeah, mystical, mitochondria base power. So so tell me about the role of a grid get work. It is now now aggregates websites. In this regard, I think what did it a paradigm shift in China. We would go to your terms website, owner editors and writer, and there is my information, and that is simply not the case today. No you what what goes on here. I think the idea of the product and the destination you coming they are times you you, you re the New York Times you, you know what they have you done for the day you you're welcome.
Everyone is now. Obviously you can get the best from the BBC in the guardian of the New York Times, the washing post, where we end users in an instant and so is important too, to send those people audiences to send those outlets. Audiences. So aggregation, I think, is a very good thing because its thoughts and actually feeds the source. They couldn't otherwise get their own exactly, but we don't want me to have access to a dozen media sources at once. I fervently you do yes, and it also means that these sources have to be better at being found out there. So so it's not just about Google NEWS is also about being through our Facebook. The Washington post is now putting every single one of us articles on Facebook in articles ok, and I felt that I read a lot more washing imposed now than I ever did, because people are linking and recommending things in the post, so you're going to the post website. No, no! These are appearing on Facebook. Now paying attention what he just said. Well, yeah
we also hear about that. You link the aggregate links to the site and, it said has often been the case, but now what's happening, there's two things and I'll bring you been listening. Neil, oh, I see. There's do things go on Mr Ruby, will you tell me is articles means that you published on Facebook with your bad zero million out of a good thing that Google's club with his answer, which is called amp, more isolated mobile pages, which are just really fast pages, but it makes a seem as if you never look when you were so fast. So this changes the paradigm of how we use media news in the news now comes to us. We don't go to it.
And another thing, I noticed- which I never knew you could do until I sought happen on red it- that readers can up voting down, vote certain mention certain links and the like, so that you get this this filtration force operating among people who, if they are, if you like mind, they ve already dont, helped you out You dont have to sift through all the the chaff that out there. Yes, an and read it has a lot of odd things in it. So has real news in it and there is in fact, some wisdom LE crowd, that is, that is visible. There dependent on your top and its divided up until these sub read it and Sub sub, read it and you you can find you can slice and dies. Everything you want to know and a lot of these you dont, want an act there if you never knew, could be diced in that west, and so so what numbers here. It's got seven hundred million monthly visits as the thirteenth visited website in the United States, twenty seventh in the world as
this month and that's extraordinary. So so we get to my interview with Alexis O Hagan I'd. Let off say that so many countries, young and these eager and and and and energetic, and so many of that community of people either never went to college and whenever graduated for conflict from college, if they did go to college, and I- and I would ask if he was one of these to fulfil that stereotypes. And so that's what got me started in this next clip with one of the co founders of red at check it out. I have to admit there would be no right sure if I'm gonna college and I think, if we had dropped out We have worked out as well as you did. The idea we technically started in college failed miserably. There was another cup no one asked me about. It is no knows, because it feels immeasurably was called my mobile menu court and it was in a let people
I pass lines. My worry there's no known my mobile many in three or four. This was I'd like believe ahead of its time. Putting I got a lot of founders. Do that we sort of saw the future, but our time was way off and we we will. Key, because we heard this guy Polygram give a talk during our seniors from break. We want to go here, talk up and and his by EU programmes. This guy he had started start up in the first whom sold its Yahoo did well and all he listened to lecture how to start a start. It is amazing lecture we met up with them. Afterward I talked means having a coffee with us. We picked them on our idea of my mobile menu and actually liked it like the lock and a month later, he asked us or suggested that we apply why commentator, which was this early, seen stage, venture firmly give twelve thousand dollars to mean Steve, so just work for some writing code in getting users along with twelve or so others started?
and I M awfully launches out of the world, but I read it is not derived from So now what happened? There will be applied with that brilliant idea, and we were environment for interviews and Stephen. Gave the bursting of your life and we just rocketed and presented to these four partners. Like how Maneater and they called Then I we're out celebrating square men. They call us to say that we were rejected and was for there we were drinking already, because then we could just start like misery drinking and that socks and the next morning However, on a long train right back to Virginia. We got a call from them. Saying: listen. We still are like your idea, Paul you really troll on me now. This is this is really what they said. We like you too,
just in case you about it, I'll just to be clear on your way back when you early away too early for this, and they were right right. There is no appstore, there's no easy way to get the software on people's phones. Sms was an ugly hack, restaurants, really have arm and ordering anything like that, so they have fax machines, exactly S executive, how they till on line orders through damn fast, but so now, how do you oh yeah, what read it is. These are yeah different species. This is where a good and advice goes. A long way basically said. Stop thinking about me and building you'll use every day when you do every morning and Steve was an avid slashed reader old school news for nerds great commenting, section great discussions I would use these new new fangled things tabs everywhere this is new in Firefox back then, and it openly thirty and just look across all these different new sites, then neither one of us feel totally saga.
I buy and three were basically tasked with solving a problem. The figure is, I wake up, it's like what's the morning report for the world, yes precisely and how far the twenties Three, the news of the day was arguably detailed by whatever was on the front page. Like probably, is the New York Times and that works for that time, that doesn't work for it in an age where the most relevant new story of the day could be a video on Youtube that someone should or could be just a photograph could come from any known resources, and what is the sort of source agnostic from page of the internet and in a little that a major domestic source agnostic again, yes, are often came as that was the goal and we were task to basically solve that problem. You tat your sellers lives by the by the partners. Partners are going to solve that problem quickly, be told Grand go for it. They are so
Everything's got an origin story, so so I didn't know that it was in a very short, but not interestingly, Larry Page Sergei bring with it before they found a Google. The company they really wanted to find was a pizza delivery. Why they, goodness these guys failed? Not maybe it would happen really, awesome pizza, availability in that area and open up a world live in car, coveted thyself, driving car with an avid inside the banks, the pizza on routes, and it ended videos, Can you like things when they bring your door bell? And then it's ready say that maybe I trade that, for Google. I think you when you're hungry, you don't know- and I can tell you all the members of you to some. So let me bring back this up. Vote down vote concept. Can we really trust our fellow people to judge what we should and should not be reading sink to the lawyers rather questionable
Can we really trust the citizens to elect a president? we're. Gonna find out that sounds like you, wanta dictatorship run so well. I guess so. There's a chance. You miss something there's a bigger tell me something of his put out his vote newspapers put up by one editor. Now I get different perspectives. Jumper views, I also gets the service of somebody ridden? We we read twenty version, the story we found the best one. You can also go to the second page of red at meal, you don't ever read only that's out of three things so had in scroll through and votes stuff up. What's yours, what's your explanation for how it came to be that read it users there known all over for being smart savvy froze site would not rowing people's lives. Are real new of them. There's bad apples in every or tried, but I don't think they lead the world in throwing right, aren't so so and it would learn later than
probably I should have, how How well known my work was on read it, and so, and that for that be a sort of community wide thing I knew it and chat about me says that they have some awareness and sensitivity how why? How does it happen there? there's a level, but little one, I think, is an inherent generosity and people. I also because an inherent when people they wanna show off that? I know more than you do. Ok, origin, which is the appeal of Wikipedia, but I think in the end and the appeal of even whether not you believe you could be a contestant, you want to see people be smarter than other people on jeopardy. For example, that should have been around for likes you what I think you're smarter. Nor is it ain't nobody, even if you're, not you want to see someone who smart beat somebody else who thinks there test extra rights. True, you do like DS. Jeopardy is under watch, the two people fail,
one personal inverse is real fortune where you think they're already it's so in that in that little in the previous interview clip, I didn't get the answer to how it got to be named. Read it all. I heard was the so which is owned by the crash test Dummy Member, the crest of debts, so I always try to walk like they did they have this great. It is a great work as they went to their death in the Kok site. Let's go back to where you do just fine we're ready It comes from check it out it. The name comes from where land, because I'm an area dates got now and I have used its grey hairs. That's great! Ok! So it came from the fact that we couldn't called the name. We want to call it. We want to call it snoop because using I'd be like
Neil second, my websites, new, and then you be like what's new and I'd, be like exactly what rightly so leather the laughing at me now immediately, not laughing with looking at you and so the little his name is snazzy day ass. The Lula, highly alien, quick, creepy alien treat lightly bodies are it's not previous agenda is what is it tat if you look at it? I don't know what that is, but it's a thing It has a name. His name is new and that's that's because it is actually the person who owned sue dot com, one in four, Graham and we don't have that kind of money, sir, like all screw it- and name, the mass got that and then read it came about I was sitting the library, remember, Haldeman Library, EPA and trying to come up a domain names, and I, like this, yeah. I hoped people would say I read it on red it, which I dont know if they ever have, that
The bastards nation is already the eighty nine learned. A year later we hired a very smart dude doktor Chris Slow, who knew Latin and was like it's nothing. It's to render or there's some clever thing land persons gonna be like you're wrong idiot, but has another version of it. That kind of applies to read it today, but it was not even you'll. Take credit for having that extra debt Anyone who knows me knows that that is not, but I won't take credit for each year. I love these back of how stories cause you take so much for granted afterwards, and somebody had to come up with it first and is another part side of red. It not just an aggregator of news and it can send you there, but also its people share. Their own ideas in their own reactions, and the history of new media reporting was never that, except for the opinion pages right. Now? Everything is an opinion. We fundamentally insult the public. We say we want to hear from you and laughed we're done with our of our work and here's a news. You're welcome.
And it will allow you to comment on what we were gonna think you're all frozen idiots, we're not gonna pay attention to that. That's been are often the case may be less no actually unready view of humanity. Gotta now just a dark feel that common sense, but I like I'd like I never thought of the opposite section and the Their city editor that way before it is that is, we will for the news and will give you this little column to two blather on about, but no one really care how much better to collaborate. There's a there's! A new company called hearken that enables the public to vote up stories. They want the word or poor on and then you assign the journalists nuts. Aberration right: that's pretty cool, We like the field editors telling them. What to report on already is editors. Is people who reads? Oh you don't have to they find the best stuff they make judgements, and and as long as you stay away from certain topics, it's very good. Why? I had to ask Alexis about people becoming part of the new community by interpreting assuring
brown perspective. Let's see what he tells us. I've talked to longer editors all over the last ten years, and the stories I hear just certainly blow me way, and one of the key threads of it is one I am so grateful B read. It gave me a voice and its comes from people. There was a woman with several policy who told me this and for it mattered because she was being judged solely on the texts and she produced not how she looks couldn't get onstage and tell a million people a story, but she could get on I didn't tell knowing people want and if it was good enough is enough. People like that's how she was rewarded for and then the a part of it is on the consumption ready they swear legitimate experts will come and talk to any. Just like having you walking on the streaming and was able to submit your question people. I guess there's an aviation Riddick community and people just like starting.
Trying to get their aviation licences are powerless licence for us. Whatever would ask the silly stupid, newbie question and get responses veterans with twenty years experience as if it were just the random person, walking down the street and for them it was so raising formations experiences. So cool is that everyone is treated equally why I never thought about that. Is that the internet, in that form, are people walking down the street? That's great well, I always say that we shouldn't judge the internet as it was the New York Times and everyone every time Sortes as a bad word. We they will not ruins internet instead, the internet is time square and fake Elmo's there and there's no sound. Also real l boats, laser mathematicians. Listening when talking about the variable time, squared we're talking about location in New York City and its times. Early. One time is where named after course than your tire says, so so that there is its ensued
so humanity there. The internet is just people so, but in a way it democratizes information doesn't it it does indeed, and- and I think that we, if we give you can trust of the people and we give them the tools and knowledge and respect good things can offer them. I repeat it is a miracle read. It is a miracle of what people do in their spare time with generosity and information. Yes, ok, so that's! That's the boys journals about us, you be nowhere. I mean, I know it's a lot of generosity, but it's not like if you go to like. I wonder what the Pacific Ocean is: it's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo Israel exactly formative right and it's as accurate as a real encyclopedia rate. Simply
Those who would argue with makes mistakes, but so too is like the media is a whole other shot by the way I like here to its leg: Libias click click. So when we combative, I would know, even when we come back from the commercial break. More of my interview with CO, founder of red, it lexical Hany. When start talker have Gallo secret, for you I'm gonna consider singing all of the ads on this shell there's just one, and where to get out of hearing there go to patriarch arms last star talk and sub. Where does at the five dollar level or higher, to listen the star talk ad free, You can download all current episodes into your favorite podcast player and never
we're here, another commercial on star talk ever again. You will definitely not have to hear me saying if you support us at Patria, dark coms. Last our talk, radio, I mean I'm just thinking I mean just saying This is starting now welcome back to start talking with, like Google, you Eugene moment couple and is not using murmuring, thirty seven or something. No. Eighty, six. There is only one of your and our guests journalism, Professor Jeff Jarvis, not your first rodeo thanks for thy development. Thanks for doing this, with reaching my interview with Alexis Hany and the co founder of the very popular
website, read it and one of the most enduring elements of red it is the Amy ask me anything, and that was my first encounter with read it, because I was getting these these people. Calling for me to do and AMA with right anything about it either. But it's worse, liberties and other famous people. You don't have to be famous, but most of them are thought to be interesting. Vs if you're, not famous tat, you should have done something interesting. Java, raise Wanna, know exactly. I've worked at Starbucks underneath it for two hundred year as you do. How does that work? Politicians can do it as well, and it's a directive on one conversation with the public so that in this next week I asked Alexis how it got started and what makes a good You may session was tat. It was a byproducts there's a canoe, it was very active- still has collapsed credit where people common asked questions and others answer someone
showed up there one day and sit, I'm so, and so ask me anything and the community responded this doesn't belong here. The format of this community is asking questions not being interviewed, go create a new ready community. For yourself, unrest is history, our slash, I am, I was born, and now these enemies happen across the site. Like the music. He has really amazed. The science community has regular amazed and it's a really cool way, whether you're a celebrity or just a person with a great story to tell so what makes a good I am often city authenticity is the biggest that's the one. I think Hollywood, celebrities and politicians struggle with the most some do an amazing job for breaking that down being human? I think there's gimme me a generation coming up of these, whatever digital natives, who understand that often cities. What rules the day? There's this weird culture clash now we're like somehow I don't know Lord can make news for taking a selfie. When is it cream on thing? Isn't it
My goodness, like the veil is come off here, is a superstar would sit cream, but for all, if that's out that's enemy attacks but our her, but for for so many people, that's that's what, You see, we want the authenticity. What makes em a successful is that they feel like they bumped on the street and just started talking, and we talked to them like a human would in real life and someone or something Jeff. If you look at the EU can be celebrity for many reasons, and perhaps the most common kind of celebrity is your great actor actress, and so what does it mean for an actor actress to be authentic if their entire way. You know them is being inauthentic spit it taking on care. Yours and that's their brilliance. Now what you gonna talk to. About? If I'm mad actor? What does it mean to be authentic? I will confess that I used working people magazine and What am I truly everywhere and the police
What a buildings and always do we always had to have the star in the kitchen wide etiquette plastic. They we had to believe we're just like them you So it's ok. So I want to know this person is human. It go to the bathroom the aid and another dimension. What does it go there and if you have enough money, when will you would people magazine a word It was what led to the idea of relatively weak. We need an answer. My question eighties and eightys. Ok, you're trying to do so because I was in people magazine and and I'm not accustomed to people just come in house and warning? But don't you think that's not really has done more than my professional identity. I so this is a statement that, at the time I think I'm holding my then how old regime one year old, daughter, upside down by her ankles. Over the pillory gravity you were doing. I had. She was smiling at having shown that I was like dad, so ok, so this is considered. Because it was so the EIA? Maybe I've why the privilege walking through the crowd with you and it's gotta, be torture, because everyone is
are you asking you cosmic huge questions and I am in a neutral the respect, and you answer the question. Yes, yes, and I am glad that my if we call their fame that my fame to so many people is not about, me. It's about the fact that I managed to trigger some curiosity within them and now just continue to feed them. Nay, the Amy allows you to scale that right, Jeanne through one crowded answering for the eighty hundredth time, a number two. That is why I know I know one hundred PLUTO right. How you can answer wasn't you could refer to it through the internet creates an archive of of addresses, where you to say no read me their reduced. There is every man. I already answer that. Well, what happens is often I take the challenge of being so thanked and I try to answer it succinctly, but if you want more
then go there, otherwise that one encounter is kind of wasted. Yet right I try to have every encounter contains something data available, go, that's a great class should go to the internet, its they enters. Also they over your case. When I have a joke about that. Nobody can I go to album for relaxing and that's that joke you re right, and so I've actually done three or four am ease and might least successful Amy, and this this often Tiffany thing, my least except for one, was when I did one when Cosmos came out commercial there, I think it's is headed smelled a little like I'm trying to get people to want to remember any one. You are answer everything would like that's addressed in cosmos that'll. Do it my first three I wasn't promoting anything. I was just it was time Ology voting
I am sure, just sign and what you do and there is not something to check out later, and maybe that was I was. I was groping for what I would think authenticity would mean, even in my case- and I think that was it. There always affect people had honest questions and I had on its answers, and I trust you know it's a race between the rate at which you can answer a question, the rate which deposited right in front of you and I can't keep them all up, but I go right in Rome. I try not to skip over any question at the wheel. I didn't want the dark questions. I skipped through the ones where you can just look up the wiki page. So as we have always the son you're wasting, one time right now, right, ok, you can get that. I think for me. The most interesting one was they asked. What is the meaning of life and, in my reply, lead glass. Just got repeated in many ways and it many times and in many places was for me. It is simple it often when you ask that question you pay,
zoom that the meaning of life is under you know Trieste, on poor raw core behind a wall as though it is something to be found in life rather than something to be created in life, and so then I describe those thing seems fats why's. That that, in my life, create mean l of suffering got adheres power run it that got quoted elite too. Overrated that big. I, although you have this archives effects. So, therefore, I will tell you what the meaning of life gotta go there, but I'm a scientist and read: it became this place where people people's shared site, civic thought the scientific community would go, and I want to here what Alexis Romanian CO founder of red, it said about the role of science in the in the discourse in the ready. Check it out somehow, over the last three or four years the science community has gone in
regrettably rigorous and just amazing the discussions and I've been when you say rigorous, you mean organised in its presentation of content, a yes and people get called out not, citing, probably people get called out for saying something and it just not being true and that's the sort of thing that's not supposed to but very often on the internet, especially when you have a platform with millions of people's unanimously, but it does- and I went to one of these american- a ass, the Rio conference, I dont with american associations investments. I think and and they're all about bringing signs to the people and to like total robes in areas like me, but the wild thing, Maybe they gotta right, maybe they didn't, but everything at the funnel through that person. But right now is more of a democratization of that which I think is generally good. When I interviewed you really help bring even just a basic understanding of its just regular foes and
That really impresses me is when I hear from people who are scientists who come to the science community and get the spotlight shine on them for a minute for a day and get to talk to just anyone who wants to ask a question and it makes them feel really great, and it's like here- I am. Their thinking like the work you are doing is helping moved humanity forward. You should feel this great all the time appear in science is not bad cool yet, but it's gonna lie cooler and if this can be one way to how popular as it often so, I can speak first hand that I think science people have greater access to scientific discovery than ever before and you You'll have to wait for the one documentary on the one channel out of the twelve channels on television for them to arrive, but which, if, but from a journalist professional perspective, would you agree With that I mean how could they used to be the one science journalist
Maybe they gotta right, maybe they didn't, but everything at the funnel through that person. But right now is more of a democratization of that. I think is generally good one. I interviewed puny by my university and asked you about this. You need the city New York. I guess email, Buenos Puny And- and I asked you about this- you express the frustration that that the few science Those who are left to often do it wrong is a new study ever changing. The idea that that did you ever go away somewhere? They talk about a new study is, is it the other? They base their Baden hyperbole? Yes, it's also very easy. It bogus science into real news or like sort of bogus studies yeah, but even You have a legitimate study of unity in the context. Neil taught me of of the other studies where this this, since, in the end in the process, Brian and Verification and and debunking. So I think that what happened in science journalism so very few left anymore. That's bad regicide journalists,
yes, because they get the industries in trouble. However, you have blogs. You have scientist Gillespie directly, the public you speak written We gave you a journalism award, you said not a journalist but you'd you do journalism by informing the public as why did they? Popularization of this is good. I also think that I can out very honoured to ever see that it's the night, the night, the journals the when I journalism innovation, words, I get like eighth of nights or you, the rising comedy, which is an ordered. Thank you so you are convinced for the case for the other places. So if you look at the internet
people say: oh well, you have a lot of followers on your twitter stream, renewing and you're on your facebook page, which counts in this single digit millions, but there are other places that attract science interested dwarf. My numbers like that that Facebook page I love science did hear that bleep good. That that that's another aggregator of news and there's some of their saint. This is cool. I think this is cool site. I want everyone to know it and then they posted is. I love that I love that, and they will have to know every new wants of the facts about it. It's just cool any. Have people celebrating a culture. The internet get smash too much first spreading misinformation, which it does but importantly internet does too is is just slam now and misinformation and you can correct mistakes faster, while saw me after south, so ok it in the next clip. I had to ask Alexis: what does he do about trolls because you can
so at the edges, trolls manifest in many different ways, but if I have if, if someone has bad science, you want people to jump in and say this is wrong did, but are they trolls the trolls or the bad science, and then there's the traditional troll, who were just kind of annoying, and should we even let them be there in what we like to town, as free enterprise. So let's see what Alexis says about this, I wish I had a good answer at some point. There is just a part of human nature that is going to involve this. The best that we can do, though, is continue to build better tools and platforms to basically Fort and curb their effects on the rest of us, some level. There is this amazing thing and which is When you encounter just that online discussion- and maybe it save them in the creation evolution thing doesn't see, meaning anytime soon, even
wealth of knowledge of this type of accident. Success it getting aid on right. The amazing thing is, I don't know what to do, in that situation, other than try to win with more counter speech to try to even more evidence and even more data that no, o k to vaccine your kids and actually it's kind of morally responsible to, but it's tough because the same internet that enables someone to push out good, formation about something that is scientifically proven, also allows will the push out misinformation and for them to get degrading fights in it were no one seems to win, but the bitter data that I do have? Is it keep in mind across all these platforms? Vast majority of people are not actually commenting or voting this one, all these any user generated site, twenty percent tops of viewers are actually doing the vast majority are just reading, and so that's where we have this the solomons
people who just consuming content and where I really hope the best ideas so what you? What's your taken? Trolls begin to give someone simply disagrees prevailing science and their rattling on about it. Do they counters trolls? No, that's an eight fool, not somebody, unfortunately trying to get you ain't groundwater shoulders. The other two different things there's something I did not. I hadn't thought about thirty others. I believe the earth is flat and aims bring it to bother you. Some people really believe that those people are dummies. Some people, to know you. Those people are terrible if they said that hit were made the earth flat. That's a troll kinnock. I can. I get believed to theirs was serious. You won't get bleep by the way is Howard, Stern, yeah, Abu. So there's that there is a very good book called assholes, a theory which tries to create a taxonomy of people, Udall.
And in their the troll holds a special dark place and role exactly right. A troll tries to get your goat, a draw, a control tries to irritate you and get you going and that their success. So this is why we say. The rule is don't feed the trolls and every time a minimal, every time I go into the garden, I can tell that person, they are just to get me and I are you with them. I regret it. It's wrong the problem with red. It is it's an open platform twitter and people can go in there and do whatever the hell they want, and so it becomes breeding ground under a dark bridge with mould and mildew of trolls who some of them neither meds, but that's what an literature because it's under a rich and some of them are sick people and and and so there are none of them just teenagers the outrages Josie. I just have responsibilities: mischievous teenagers,
I'm. What is that the law, how quickly it has dimension Hitler, Nazis, God, locked goblins law, which says the only you're, wrong you're, a scientist is still bread or the probability approaches unity boots if within twenty honour, the longer the conversation longer to stay out of it goes on that someone will mention either Hitler or Nazis. That's and I've seen that, yes, with topics had enough to do with anything, there is an exception. Now should get you in trouble with Donald Trump. You are not allowed or allowed you you're allowed to make the reference value, but when we return to talk will continue My interview with co, founder of Red Alexis obtaining more to
this is starting back to start talk. I'm with you learn to do not have any real glow and our gas professor journalism Jeff Jarvis and you'd tweet too. I did too much too much agenda. Depending on what you were drinking at the time at Jeff Jarvis, I have covered a reward for you: shouldn't tweet Africa Bernay, but I found it. Paul. It's called you, don't worry it's ok, it's we'd have to be in on one very good. I get your burgundy one day and we can show. Where future my interview with Alexis Hanan CO, founder of the new site and online community. That's a good word to call at community level read it and who knows what we get our news interact with celebrities. I kind of like a ghost I insist always on those pages, and it's only possible really because the internet is wide open
that brought up this idea of net neutrality and it's been discussed in Congress and the Us He sees weighed in on it. And I had. I asked Alexis what what's up with net neutrality and find out what he says: We'll talk about a check it out in the is about ensuring that all bets are treated equally Is this idea that the cable companies don't only a few of them. They don't get it, who's, the winners and losers, the market does and that's really important, because the flatness of the internet, the ability to access any content just as equally Israel, important because could you turning on your internet, whatever your provider might be to Morrow and realising that, like you, get being searched for free but Google costs an extra twenty dollars a month. That's where things get real ugly is innovation happens because that kid, inner dorm room can compete.
With Google right now, so no one of your generation propose this law. This is these are old Sneezer Comcast, as these are the lobbyists through the large tacos executive or lots of money down it easy to get their way and spoke, but you want. We want the internet hurricanes a year ago, look at the press from a year ago. Everyone was saying chance in Hell, don't bother it's a done deal and a year later we were able to do it and the owner of a secret phone calls phone. I'm on positions as your nice, the twitter campaign, the red, oppose those were helpful, but what was phone calls enemies? getting people, we did this with salt and pepper. These are these two bills ever gonna break dinner? a couple years ago we defeated those two bills in housing, acronyms. Fourth, stop online Piracy ACT and the Protect IP act was an instance where we actually rally to create something we actually rallied to get
something done at the sea had more petition signed in. I think history than anything else. The JANET Jackson Superbowl Incident was the previous record when her for that, in terms of that's easy comments, but we triumphed over it and created enough. That was a the wardrobe malfunction during the Superbowl. Yes, indeed, but but we now have a new record winter, which was the Americans calling to demand net neutrality, and we won. As an elected is a hero of the internet. He led the sober people, and one and then down, laws that we're gonna make me the internet, a favour, big companies. I fact cat media giants. Yes, but the war is never over. So, yes, the IPCC has seen the light and are doing some very good things, but two things happening. One
Mobile, for example, is now offering you a better deal. It says: hey. If you use these services, we won't charge you for the data, but sounds like a great deal, but they get to choose which services run that deal, and if I have start up, then I want to draw my new comedy. You get nowhere, but unless, unless your your your favoured by T Mobile, also India. I had a guy my office just this week. They nickel power and nickel is one who fought. Internet dot, Org, which was facebooks. I think a good idea to try to give people free internet access in certain services, but that's not neutral if Facebook or the telco, which is far more important, is to decide which services are free and which she pay for that's an advantage to some players over others and that's not neutral so what's the difference between net neutrality and an open internet and operator that says that no one has to ask permission. But one has to ask permission to be able to get bits to you. That's an open internet, and so if some
is favoured over you, as if suddenly this podcast has slowed down, because you didn't pay the tacos to deliver it, then you can't go fight and compete. When big old television to that, so that we can check on the nefarious activities of ever is the meaning hardware constraints. My website is not any slower faster than CBS Dotcom. A bit is a bit is a bit and if you, if you stop it, if you slow it down, if you substituted, if you then, sir. It then the internet is not truly free and that would have an on privacy presumably, is that right, good, the information would go through some, some he has managed to steady way, is already going through a whole bunch of servers and making comments on that, as we rightly, elements of the USA and the juicy h q in the UK Well, there's a lot of liquor like someone, so the natural secure
reagents whatever Jesus H, Q of legitimate you and then the United Kingdom s girl so basically put tabs on the internet, it was even aware of that. There was there was information was being just sucked up by them and they put it back. Whether this was going on? That's a huge problem in a different problem, and that's why we also have encryption so the other five, we know the and open and free internet. Now is that we should have the right to encrypt our data, so you can't snoop on it, but These authorities want to say not where we want a back door to that, so that we can check on the various activities of doctors. In the same way, they could have tapped your phone, but with with court permission exactly. Ok, these are issues that version on on so basically will prevent terrorist cells We need a bad signal for elections or anyone. I actually think that Alexis is born politician someday,
I will be voting for ever present my interview with him. He was charming and and and smart in my ass. He should have some mayoral experience. I don't know just a business van becoming a politician is that agreement he handles trolls. He can handle everybody now through its true. If your president, you can't be dots, already, where you are, is there any? What was The argument against net neutrality, other than that with our herds is bad? It's bad. Somebody must have thought it. The argument and the industry as we invest a fortune in getting these pipes to you, we should be able, massively profit from that and we be able to offer deals and get paid on both counts. Now we, the users, pay, they say. We also like the shorter pay. So whatever they come to you as a dutch citizen, very nice show your bullshit little bit happened so slow
you could never, and here and and and I would be willing to do so- they might say to you if you want your show distributed well, everybody pay us there where they get paid from both ends. The use repayment, internet access and your pay for the access to get it to the user, that to use scientific term sucks and also probably there's endless websites that wouldn't even have the opportunity to the itemised or the moneyed optimizing Alexis wrote a book where and when was this back in two thousand fourteen caught without them Permission- and I didn't know, not read it, but I asked him about his check it out. This is a rip off the amazing grace. Hopper quote: who is one of the oh geez of computer science and its original gangster? Who wrote you notes or or said it's better to ask for There are also things arisen, gangster gangster, that's terrible Thirdly and his team, an arrow that is true, I just
you're gonna, go there like enough ass. It be right, as you correctly, I guess, all about it. The cigarettes Harper and original gangster your side she very famously has this is calling is now could share, but it's better ass for forgiveness then permit and we talk about permission, was innovation all the time with technology, the internet? And this idea that someone with a great idea, a laptop and some code can create something It is essentially arrange something away. That's ever existed before and just do a union open factory like you just open your laptop, a mutiny internet is at its best as a tool. It really enables people to do the amazing stuff that they want to do what do you want to learn knowledge or put it out into the world? I mean I've seen it and we are used. The book now he's got some. This I'd like to be a part of the people of Gaza. Me and no in philanthropy and activism in the arts.
Who have been able to use technology to spread, really really amazing ideas and do stuff that they simply wouldn't have even twenty years. So you do students we this book and today will now, let's grids good to know so. Are you taking your students into the future with? Is that what you do, they're taking us into the future like us out your theatre, your problem, free? the rage or something or some factor thanks saw mines. Is the Carter like what nineteen times older Euro wizard right? Yes, it's a way. I tell us through this. Every time is short. I said the future is yours: you have to create an I'm too old, I'm not going to see it and if you don't do it no one's gonna. Do it and if they tweet too much knockers their drinking cavernous over anyone, know subject with bad beer is drinking. So so, happily, the internet service, new, good, very good, and I first sort of that's how I were I rose- is really through creating a website that
at videos and animation serve before anybody really was nearly so. This is at a time when you might not have been able to get gigs on stage in the late. It was too late. Nineties and that's when I friend, then it first started going around actually violently, and then I got an email from you are an orgy, I'm analogy I got. I got an email from PETE Townsend from the who that was sort of like one of the first big, some joke about the who, though he was like there's a thing on your website that I that I like it was just a really crazy so like so for me, I think that democratic democratization of the internet has been amazing. Help me completely. Do everything I've done cool cool. We are going to suddenly going to concluding thought. Mister, professor. I think that unless the slovenian used the permission of the internet to invent we couldn't have ever predicted and that the public he enabled also helped him in them that that's the future of the internet. Collaboration David member, who was one of vessels,
It says that the smartest person in the room now is the room itself, the network that puts all of our brains together and that's what read it does now, you're the one who told me that it took five hundred years, for fifty years after the election of the Gutenberg Press for anyone to think to invent the newspaper newspapers, I got that from you about four hundred years before became the pending the mass media promptly known and so that we are so young on the internet right now. Fourteen seventy two and Gutenberg years, if fourteen seventeen Gutenberg years and so we're still We don't know what the internet is yet still inventing and we have no, dear what it is we still thinking of new fangled book once so. I waited mergers with human fiery, excited the for me I dont the internet was never sort of so much a destination from because when I put things on the internet, there are things our I was doing anyway.
Was having already and I have tweet like But every day of my life, I'm sorry- and I just didn't get. Bill for that affair. That is their word for that disease, and so I thought let me put it on twitter and that seem to rest. With people and so I've. For me, the internet is is an extension of I am rather than replace when the internet can, if what I might be, the internet is wires, its people and so on. The magazine wired, I thought they were to change their name by now, although they laugh, I actually proposed that they should have changed in April. Earl, but they didn't. Like I told I wireless sounds like it's like a phone or router mag has a bearing router magazine. We have closed down, that's our show and thanks to our guest, Jeff Jarvis for being on unstarched a second time thanks. We get to do a third I think you did ok to studying thanks. I liked he jumped Jarvis presents starts out
and thanks in the internet space to electoral campaigning for agreeing to sit out with me and how to chat Eugene Those things could be out here and I, as always review of Baghdad miles up the organs which you can listen. The star talk, commercial, free, joint star talk on pay ran for as little as five dollars per month and the ads will disappear, learn more at patriarch doc. Coms last star talk radio,
Transcript generated on 2020-01-25.