From CAFE, welcome to stay too I'm preparers politics should not be. What defines your identity government has a great deal lately jurisdiction, but it's not everything and if you're looking for excitement, if you're looking for spiritual fulfilled if you're looking for the meaning and life don't but politics, because we ve seen what happens. When Mass movement become intoxicated by political means, fighting for his fascism, coming All the rest. Try to envelop lives their adherents? It's unhealthy! That's it! mobile conservative commentator, George will he's written. The six thousand columns for the Washington Post, I actually grew up. Reading George will I often disagreed with his opinions. I can thank him for expand vocabulary. His most recent book is the concern if sensibility and does not mean the current president, at all, we talked about the effect of Fox news. Fecundity, a free,

how very Goldwater started the modern conservative movement and why George will left the republican Party. But first, let's get your question. That's coming up stay tuned. Hey folks, CAFE recently launched something to help you keep on top of today's new cycle. It's a newsletter We camped news at analysis, a politically charged legal matters. The Cathy Brief sign up to stay and formed a Cathy dont. Come slash brief! That's Cathy, don't come slash Ruth, I pray you we can go and I'm wondering what kind of authority and control the attorney general has over federal prosecutors like you were in york this as in district at New York. Could he question in Dutch

they had met, you were carrying. I thank. I worry thanks. Louise, it's a question that I get asked from time to time to question that swirls around discussions about what's going on the justice Department. In my interest, little the complicated yet in the line of succession, the attorney General United States of America is, the top and he has or she has authority over everything's going on in the department, and so when I was united turning here we had independence Greek. But if I were were directed to do something by the attorney general I complied. There was a lot of discussion. There are sometimes debate. I had arguments with both these general, with whom I served when I was in office which disputes are not going described in this programme and you know you come to an understanding about how you should proceed and there's vigorous debate, and sometimes we were overruled often we were not but largely most of the cases that we dealt with even very significant ones: polluted charges against Sheldon Silver, the assembly speaker, and they said

Georgie leader, Dean's gallows and the charges against essay see capital in rod Random and a whole host of others, literally no involvement from main justice or the attorney general whatsoever because there is no regulation or guidelines or statute that required any approval from the Justice Department. Now, on other matters like the potential criminal trial of Collegiate Mohammed the resolutions with Toyota and GM and in some other matters that nutrition would want to keep apprised of. We had a mechanism for briefing three general, but largely. I think the best attorney general know that it does handling something well and tend to stay out of it, especially when it comes to the southern district, there was never time doing seven have years where an attorney general said do not continue investor asian of someone or something never happened. My experience, I can tell you that if there had been such an account

and where we thought we had a good bona fide investigation in a controversial matter and the tray general for not good faith reasons, told us to stop investigating. There would have been something of a crisis. I dont think I would defied the attorney general In fact I would not have, but we would have reached a moment were either had to have convinced hurry general that our way was correct or reserve. And from the office and depending on the nature of it, make myself available for congressional testimony. If I thought something corrupt or untoward or improper was happening based on something that have inhabiting recently Louise. I understand the base for your worry, and I understand the spirit of your question to be well Bill BAR, but the cabbage on some good faith, investigation being done by the southern district or some other office? Anything is possible in things I didn't think were possible have become possible in recent months, but I think that if your attorney General Bill BAR or you're, someone advising attorney general bill Bar- and you can do something like that-

you need to proceed with extreme caution, because you not the only one asking this question and it'll be of other folks with subpoena power and gobbles asking the same question same some investigation looks like it was cut off improperly health answers request this question comes from twitter user, fissile farm cows, a Metro, Canada, cow that that is but sounds cool. This asks asks I read that felt felt incapable of going up against a powerful, powerful attorneys, so cut the plea deal: doesn't prosecutor have resources, shot for prosecutors, perhaps to call on when confronted with a wealthy, Lloyd up criminal hashtag, aspirate chair thanks for her question and Milgram, and I Gus this at some length in the insider podcast. Would you can listen to blue to say briefly yeah you know, I don't know that. I believe that reporting necessarily it would seem odd to me and is- and I discussed if you were, the presidential appointed Senate, confirmed United States attorney for a district, especially district as large as a

therefore the floor, which, by the way, is about the same size as about the same number of staff and lawyers as the southern district of New York. Include Miami Lord Metropolitan area, you not afraid of anywhere. You might have qualms about the closeness of a particular case that you have brought, but You do how the resources, the government you do have. Backing of the entire department of justice. You do have access to huge law enforcement agencies like the FBI, the d, the secret service. And others, and also not in it, for the money. There's no cost problem for you. You go forward when you think the cases proper to bring, and if you think the cases and the facts are on your side and laws on your side. Then you go forward and you proceed in court. The fact there may be a hotshot lawyer. I don't even know what that means. I think frankly, I will not name them here there. A lot of folks who are in the hotshot lawyer category, who, frankly, are not perfectly good one. So I don't. I don't understand why

phenomena would take place here was why I tend to doubt it, even though lots of other stuff that's negative, about Alex COD handling of this. I do believe- and I do credit if it is the case that in your attorney, was afraid or or put off by border code. Powerful defence attorneys than the British have the job to hear the fuller commerce, about this issue and everything else related to accustom Epstein. You can listen to the cap. Insider pike, ass, good, a cafe that come slash, insider This question comes from Twitter user Bible girl, thirty, three ip. You mentioned in the last part cast a former colleague it. Why was now a judge assuming a federal judge of We wanted to know. How does that work? You express interest your recruited. Can we look forward to Georgia

or in the future hashtag as pre. So that's a great question and complicated and it depends on what state your from it depends on whether you're interested in the district court, which is the lowest court in the federal system, the trial court or the appeals court independent of the senators are dependent on the president, is a lot of different things: the general tradition, around the country at the home state? Senators are the ones who make recommendations both for you, as attorneys and for federal district court. Judges to a particular Whitehouse does We were in the constitution, is not anywhere in any guidelines or statute, but that has been the tradition Senate, make the recommendations. Some senators will recommend human being for particular open spot. Some centres will recommend a number of people for particular spot and give the White House its choice. Some senators have screening committees by senator humor. Does made up of serious lawyers of diverse backgrounds who do vetting

screening and interviewing and recommendations to the centre. In some states there are bipartisan commissions who make these recommendations. So it's all. There ways where someone gets to the attention of the white as member, you cannot become a federal district judge unless you are nominated by the president. So the recommends can come from any source. You can come from a senator or somewhere else, but the nominees has to be made by the White House, and then you can be confirmed unless thereafter you were voted upon, favor by the? U S, Senate, that's advising consent. Now a complicates this in some ways is that's it Why not decide to nominate somebody over the objection of the homestead senators right now

Tradition remains: it's not true still for the circuit courts, but there's a division of the blue slip. The blue slip is a form and it's actually the color blue cuz. I filled it out for Senator Schumer on a number of occasions that you return if you're the home state senator with respect to a nomination in the federal district court in your state, and it indicates your ascent to the moving forward of that nominee. If both home state senators do not return. A blue slip with respect to Anam The tradition has been that the chairman of the Judiciary Committee will not consider moving forward on that nominee. Now you may have read some controversy about the blues. Falling into oblivion. That is true with respect a circuit court now, so this White House has made nominations of people for the higher court, the appellate court in various states. And the homestead senators have not approved those nominations and the White House has pursued them anyway. Image Mcconnell is taken up those nominations and hearings anyway and, of course, all sorts of ways to get to the attention of screening committees and senators

you're a bar associations, quite frankly, depending on a state urine. If you are a lawyer who you think should be considered for a federal judge ship, you should reach out to the staff of both homestead senators state your interest and in all likely there will be a process they'll be outlined. That requires submission of an application. You may see the references, all sorts of other questions? You have answer that in New York at least basically track with the Senate questionnaire is once you get confirmed. So if you're, asking for a friend till you friend does seek out Bison Council from the home state senators. As for whether or not you can look forward to judge of Aurora and the future. The answer to that is no. I've said multiple times on the show and also at some length in my book. I have great respect. Judges. We asked them to do really really difficult work. We ask him to be perfect and they're just human beings, but I liked being a prosecutor. I, like public service,

and one percent. I have an interest in being district judge. Is I don't have an interest in doing the hardest thing that they do, which is to determine for how? Many days, weeks, months or years, you separate another human being from their liberty and upset as before? I know it sounds coming from a prosecutor who, for years, made recommendations about that all the time and we convicted people knowing that there would be sent to prison, making those determination so specific determinations about prison not my cup of tea. This question comes from twitter users. Chelsea die Andrew, hey at Pre Pereira, any advice for US future lawyers currently studying for bar in major need of some encouragement right now, hashtag asked preach in you, You stated that you gotta women, Mary LAW, school, terrific, great law, school and you taking the barn DC so made. My heart goes out to you why I will not yoga. And you know this better than any one, and there are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of folks in your position who, hopefully your fans have stated

Taking the bar exam was a single most miserable test I ever had undertake in my life and You know I love schooling to private school in college and law school and nothing is worse than the bars and in parts tat This may be helps you think about it. In all likelihood, Europe student you done well in school, gone as far as you gotten in gotten integrate logical, because you ve done well and are used to getting really good grades on tests. The bar exam is past fail. We used a joke in Moscow and after that, the smallest person, the world, was the one who could figure out you just enough studying to pass the bar exam by one question. I wish you don't do that, see bars like I didn't take out of New York, and I took New Jersey, Nook bar at the time I took it was pretty hard. New Jersey bore no offence to the garden. State was as much easier That's a lot of questions on a lot of things that maybe you're not expert in my can tell you something's not to do so. I took one of the bar testing courses in another other popular ones. Now that didn't exist when I was in law school, but I took one of the classic ones made of

money is my offer made a bunch of money, and I remember how many weeks it is acting as a twelve weeks or something like that and about sex. Again I lost my notes. So don't do that. That's a bad thing to do, and at some point, I began earnestly studying, partly by late June early July, and I shifted my schedule such that? I was sleeping all morning and I would stay open. I would studying sample bar exams too late in them. And by the time we got to the end of July and EVIL are New York. I literally going to bed at eight. A m and waking up in the middle of the afternoon, which is not a great way to conditioners, for taking an example begins at. Like nine M, the money before the bar exam? What I think in my day was Wednesday and Thursday. I was settling into sleep, so don't do this, but it is an example of what not to do at home. I was settling into sleep in my very comfortable law school fruit

in a climate tv just as he was on and rest my eyes and go to bed, and literally it was about eight in the morning. The opening credits to the godfather part, two grace my scream and I had a decision to make. We go to bed after having been up a lot of hours because of our exam was about forty eight hours away, or do I watched for the seventeenth time the Godfather party. Well. I watched the godfather part too, for three hours went to bed. Eleven, a M did not put me in good standing in terms of rest for the bar exam, I made it through, I passed and now more podcast host. So notwithstanding my trajectory. Please do, as I say, not as I do, but it really no good advice. Other then take notes, don't lose them their certain big areas of law From my time I remember I was not can be able to master. I never studied law school. I was only for the first time of the course of

days in the summer of ninety. Ninety, three and they're only going to be very few number of questions on some of those arcane topics, so you need to balance or study times the basic stuff that you know beyond that. You probably know better somebody other more our stuff. I would make it a lower priority if your bar prep professors disagree with me. Follow their advice over mine I'm. Prison, saying look? I apologise for this arcane talk to the non blasted folks were listening, but through, like his purpose, This is something that I didn't understand. Nobody understands that is difficult to understand, effort and energy and studied to understand and music to my ears was one teacher saying look at most is gonna, be one question on it and if there is just answered DE instead, the other stuff, how this is helpful, like not only to you Chelsea but to every suffering law student taking the bar exam anywhere in the country. I feel for you

My guest this week is columnist an author George. Will he, when the Pulitzer Prize commentary back and nineteen seventy seven. Just three years, to joining the Washington Post. No topic is: limits for will. He writes about baseball tyrant in foreign policy, presidential candidates and more twice each week we discuss what's happening the relationship between conservatism in the Rio PETE. Why he says, Paul Ryan is the biggest casualty of drums presidency. America's other national pastime How a George will column nearly crash in online dictionary with the one word he used to describe vice president, like that's, that's coming up, stateroom feeling safe in your home is a top priority, but sometimes finding the right home security system can slip down on you to do list. Maybe it's because most companies make it difficult. That's why simply saying is my top choice?

down simply say, protects every door window and room with twenty four seven professional monitoring and they make it easy on there's no contract, hidden fees or fine print. Prices are always fair and honest, in fact, around the clock. Monitoring is just fifteen dollars a month. What really makes simply safe stand out. Their video verification technology would simply safe video verification. The security system doesn't cry what their able to visually confirm a break in allowing police to get to the scene. Three point five times faster. You can visit simply saves outcomes, lash preach to get free shipping and the sixty day risk free trial. You ve got nothing to lose, be sure to go to simply saved our com, Slash Prate, so they know our show sent you that's simply say I come slash. Crete George will thank you for joining us. It's a real one and have you tried to be with you

the author of a new book. The conservative sensibility by George F will, which will about a month was wanted. At the listeners in on something, as is standard practice, when you go which do you, the sound people, wanted for the levels are: okay, the volume is right or ordinarily, people, walls or either count, or but what they did that day the EU instead uniquely began to recite what I thought was the gettysburg address. Well, in Lincoln, can be improved data Delivering constitution? We have a living gettysburg address. Do you mind sharing with the listeners how you make sure that this sound level was set properly? I said fourscore in seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent, new nation conceived and liberty and dedicated the proposition that the designated hitter rule is a mistake, I'm sure, if Lincoln allowed alive today, that's what he would have said at Gettysburg, if only

It spend all their time talking about the designated literal in baseball. Well, I only I only write about politics to support my baseball habit, I've seen you say that you began as a young smart person as a liberal decorate where- in college in nineteen sixty, I supported Jack Kennedy. And I was first standard issue- academic child. My father's college professor knows a standard issued Leubronn then, and nineteen We do I went to Oxford for two years and came back and voted for Goldwater. What happened between war has not only that I see the Berlin Wall, which has great insight. Tutorial only stakes of modern politics, but also I got to know british socialism struck me that a vibrant society was having its energy suffocated by too much statism at about that time. In nineteen sixty two My Friedman published capitalism and freedom, Frederick Kayak, had just published through the owners to Chicago presses.

But the constitution of Liberty, and often running toward what I've become witches. I say Goldwater veteran sixty four when I cast my first vote for president- and that is to the memory of very that this book is dedicated had I will go and sixty four not so good will No, I think Goldwater woman sixty four just took sixteen years camp arose you have not written a book about politics and in political philosophy, anything ten years. Why? Right this book now? Well, I've been thinking about this stuff sense. While all the time in Washington, since I wrote my doctor dissertation at Princeton on the problem. Called beyond the reach of majorities. You may recognize the phrase from justice. Robert Jackson's opinion in the West Virginia, the barn Second flags loop case where he said the very the purpose of a bill of rights is to place certain things beyond the reach of majorities to rescue them. From the vicissitudes of politics,

Europe and Central Illinois, where we worried about Lincoln them, the Kansas Rask ACT and all the rest. So I've been worth thinking about long time whether America is about a process, majority rule or a condition: liberty, they're, not the thing am majority rule can be a problem for liberty, and so I thought it time to put this down also, obviously, to speak about the olive the room conservatism has lost, they says I understand, has lost the allegiance of the poor, city which was the vessel of conservatism for actually since Goldwater, when it became a ideologically conservative party so the same like the time I made As you mentioned Donald Trump in this book zero. I also don't mention Charlemagne or doors, because none have anything to do with American services, although arguably dont from has something to do with hijacking a party that

you said a minute ago was a vessel for conservatism does not matter what matters at the party was so susceptible to hijacking one. These people, in particular in the congressional party, were so lightly attached to their horrible convictions, whether they were real or not, remains much in doubt for years to take just one example, one thing that all Republicans were agreed upon was the virtues of free trade that is so universally recognised least among academic economies that it's one of them This is why economics is one of them academic fields. It has moved to the right and the last fifty years down, drummed comes is by the way you're no longer for free trade and aid. Tugged therefore locks I said, you're right where nod and set about exe sizing discretion that the Congress given the president's Willy nilly over the years as part of the cap. Shutting its responsible.

These in ways that, where the court, the Supreme Court vigour in enforcing a non delegation darkroom. They could stop you they turned on their forelocks, is not the same as bangs ok obeisance to their dear later. I'm try I'm translating for some of the youth. I prefer further to what you said just now, George, let me read something you wrote very recently in the Washington Post, which I tend to agree with. Consider today's supine behaviour of most congressional Republicans echoes what you but then goes beyond. Speaking Republicans. You say they were Fort free trade until Trump informed them that we're not the defenders of the? U S: intelligence, community, until Trump announced in Helsinki that he believed Vladimir Putin rather than this community. Regarding russian support for his election, they excoriated wish thinking regarding North Korea until from spend a few hours with Kim Jong Moon and Smitten tweeted. There is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea. So can you

Mental, been why you think they're so soup on the fear is the basic answer. They have seen what happened to Senator Corker and Senator flake. Congressmen centred who got on the wrong side of firm Mr Trump and are now outside of politics alone? the number of people are in politics to be in politics: that's what they want. That's their objective and Intellectual lecture ideological trappings that came with it are to be shed a snake. That's it skin when they become inconvenient, has a lot of tradition republican views, have one of the few Is it my hero? James Madison got raw was he said, and the Federalist Papers it under popular government. All power tends to be sucked into the impetuous vortex of the legislature. Actually, for the last eight years, so Congress, under both parties has been spending off powers to the presidents of both is revelling in the fact

They are no longer accountable for many of the things that happen in Washington and its. More restful to allow most actual legislation. That is the details, the trade offs and all the granular business government to be done by the agencies than the executive branch of the administrative state. So when you say non delegation doc and remind people what you mean, there certain. Well, let's do it this way. The first Substantive words of the constitution. That is the first words after the preamble are all legislative or shall be vested in a Congress of the United States com has no right to shed powers, that is to say rule, making discretion to the executive branch that is essentially legislative power. John Locke, in the second treatise said legislatures may make laws they may not make legislators and the Supreme Court has in the past episodic lay, but not real

play has said there are limits to the discretion Congress can wield in giving essentially legislative powers to President's. So is it your view that the only wholly conservatives consorted be fearless and stick to their prince whatever they may be in whatever other progressives on the other side of the ideological spectrum may not like, but the olympian can be free to say what they feel. Are journalists and countless like you and David from and MAX boot have also been on the show, but that there is large number of Republicans who were elected to office, who feel the same way that you do, but out of fear, dont state that end revert back to being garden variety conservative later or is that dead for good or, like that's a good question of it? If Mr Trump is re elected that changes, a lot of, One term is an aberration, two terms as a tram pattern and I think, coming back from eight years of this would be very difficult. I'm not saying that the Republican Party can snapped back toward it

I'm not saying that actually ought to, but I the same that the vigour with which Republicans have turned their backs on fifty years of rhetorical support for conservative positions is striking. What is open to question is whether the rhetorical support was particularly sincere, and let me give you one example. I believe that for all the talk about the discord in american public life, the most shocking and frightening, as a consensus as broad as the republic is deep, the Grand Canyon and extends from left to right of the spectrum in into simply this, We should have a large, generous entitlements state and not pay for it. Everyone agrees that we it gives the EU should give the american people of dollars worth of government in charge them eighty cents for it. The public likes that pardon the political class loves, making big government cheap, shoving part of the cost of it off on the unconcerned because unborn future taxpayers

We sail merrily long while everyone talks a great game about fiscal responsibility. Republicans don't mean it. We can also make Mexico pay for it. No oil of course, but when the next recession starts and if the present, to abolish the business, has made a modest. They would not have prevented him from mentioning that fact, when the next recession starts with death, It's already at a trillion dollars a year at full employment, three percent growth it to be really interesting. So, let's submit Mcconnell, for example, do you think that he has any love affection, admiration, report, in a real way with Donald Trump and down trumps politics. No, I know Ms Mckenna Well, I think I know hurries thinking he's thinking that there's nothing

He can do about that. End of Pennsylvania Avenue sixteen blocks away. There is a primal force of nature who is doing what he does, but the Senate Mr Mcconnell says repeatedly is in the personnel business that is it moister advise and consent to the nominations, to the executive branch and most especially, to the article three courts. So Mr Mcconnell's keeping his head down and doing the personnel business half of the Senate's business and doing it quite effectively. Suppose, hypothetically, that Donald Trump gets defeated by wide margins to definitive loss and some Democrat becomes the president. What, then, will be you think the posture of people like Mitch, Mcconnell not just with respect to the the new president going forward, but with respect to how they will talk about the Trump presidency once Trump is gone and we never held office again, I don't think we'll talk of

and I think it'll be repressed memory. I think they will say what that didn't happen will need hypnotists exact. I think that I think they will come back to something like the conservatism that, by outlined in my book this discussion, we're having about the difference between what conservative sort of la suffers or writers or journalists can say and talk about seems to on the liberal side in what is then please really possible for what could be the vessel for that ideology with its conservative, liberal and serbian impertinent question, but is there a point two conservatism or, for that matter, liberalism outside of politics. In other words, is it the purpose of it to cause politics? If that's the point of view, you have to become coextensive with the philosophy, not really. I can speak for progressive today, but I can speak for conservatives who are gonna american context, the legacies of classical liberalism, o rights based

that government natural rights thinking from Lock through Jefferson, Hamilton and the rest? I think one of the messages and invaluable message after the political intoxication of the twentieth century is: politics should not be what defines your identity. That government has a great and stately jurisdiction, but it's not everything and if you're looking for excitement, if you're looking for your fulfilment, if you're looking for the meaning and life, don't look the politics, because we ve seen what happens when mass movements become intoxicated by political movements, fighting face fascism, communism, all arrest that try to invest the lives of their adherence. It's unhealthy wish and sent allow baseball to governance fairly, better he'll be lots of social space for people to have Hobbes like there is absolutely no it s. My question is: maybe there's a silly question to the extent there is such a thing is conservatism. What does it speak

outside of policy and outside of laws. There should be areas of life where, like baseball or art, or music cure or literature, The reason I called my book, the conservative sensibility as a sensibility is more than an attitude, but less than an agenda, its stance away of sea away. Sperience lean reality and the flux of events, a wise person who said if you reduce the message of the Bible to one sentence, Is God created man and woman and promptly lost control of immense concern? with a sensibility likes that it likes the fact that, in an open society of spontaneous order to use the phrase from higher coop figures prominently in my book to embrace the openness of the open society, use them phrase from Karl Popper, the great philosopher of science or of the book. The open society in its enemies to embrace the fact that the fecundity of freedom, as such

exhilaration of an open society is so exciting its frightening on occasion and openness, idea of a dynamic economy has casualties. Care must be taken for the people who are left behind, but the basic experience is thrilling and it's not gonna throw a politics. Is the thrill of a creative life lived in the vast social spaces left by a likely governed society? It's quite a dilemma. Isn't it I've been thinking about this over the last number of weeks months me, fifty two years, there's all sorts of people who think that, what's happening in Washington and the policies that don't rumpus putting forth and in some More importantly, the rhetoric causes people to be concerned. By, in a way that I think people have not been consumed by politics or a precedent in my lifetime. In important and people say no, you must vote you want people become engaged. I have three young children who I hope will become engaged in other side is this point you keep making that it can be

So consuming that you forget to enjoy these other things. You are quite right that the current president, as has achieved a ubiquity, that no one has ever seen before, but that I mean I don't blame him for trying all presidents would. If they could, suppose, I blame the media for allowing themselves to be whipped around where they are, but it's important understand, the long pedigree of this phenomenon that we now have begun with Theodora, about in his stewardship idea of the presidency, which, as he said, the president is free to do anything. He wants that. He is not explicitly forbidden to do signal, Only Teddy Roosevelt was the first man to become president who was found by a movie camera because the money technology? Is a mass communication have helped make the modern presidency now combined new intimacy with the desire of Congress, shed powers and responsibilities and to give President's the power to impose taxes in the form of tariffs and all the rest, and you have the short

work of aim of the medicine in equilibrium. What guidance does, a conservative ideology, give one about particular policies and is that change over time suffers if you were a conservative of the type that you write about in your book, you someone who would use to those principles at the time that Social Security was proposed. What would have been the appropriate conservative view? and it's very interesting question, because you know one Ronald Reagan came to town. He didn't have a complaint against the new deal legacy because the great society legacy that he took aim at social security is something conservatives can embrace. That is social safety net. Today they embrace it. But I guess I pick lot of them did been to social security. Something government knows how to do that It identifies an eligible cohort. The elder leaner males them checks fairly simple. What change

when, in nineteen sixty one government said our scope and our competence are so majestic, that we are now going to deliver things like model cities. Government doesn't know how to build a modern city just doesn't, but it headed the sudden pretence now notice what happened in nineteen sixty four, when the country made terrible blunder of acting my man Goldwater. Seventy seven percent of the american people said they trusted the government to do the right thing all the time or almost all the time today the figure is seventeen percent. That's a sixty point collapse. They prestige of government has plummeted, as the pretences of government have risen now seems to me.

Progressive friends, all of whose agenda depends upon strong government that can only be strong if the public supports it and respects it. Might progressive friend should be alarmed by this, and they should sit down say. How did this happen that we frittered away sixty points of public approval who your progress? friends out for your best progressive France, oh gosh, zulus bunch, writers in town, I don't want barrels bye, bye, This item is friends but, as you may have noticed, in the bucket, my best friend for many years was settled Pat one hand of New York, the resolute new deal Democrat, never wavered and that the final social scientist ever serve on the national legislature, man, a fact and data reason and good cheer who love the clubhouse kind of politics. He grew up. In New York and loved the game? Are there any people who were in the image of at one end today

Well, Ben SAS senator from Nebraska and in his first term, be up for reelection and twenty twenty one Ben SAS was elected to the Senate Eyes a Yale history Phd wonder over the one requesting made was he wanted to have pat one hands desk, and he does have any Democrats that that I admire particularly Well, that are in the mould of TAT morning, I don't think I ever met him and important senator from New York, where I spent most of my life and he's a particular kind of democratic described. Not the kind of person or nearly goes into collective office, but people like that now in and if not, why not abandon the closest, partly because people like tat rarities. I once said rather not only that while he was in the Senate. Padded written more books than most of his colleagues had read, but a pat was just then they don't come along men often, but the bends ass would be his

actually written two books was in the sun on both of them are repay. Reading. Theirs continuing. We like to see battle because we like no war metaphors between conservatives and progressive, slash. Liberals but in America, as people often point out, there's not much of a spectre. Spectrum is not as broad as it is in. Other countries is basically to parties, as some people point out, another that different. When you compare how politics goes on in, for example, the country of my India, the difference between one end of the spectrum in the other is much much much wider than it is some people think that's a bad things. Some people think that a good thing, but my question is, if you hadn't the Van diagram of in the liberals and conservatives in America not broadly not throughout history where is the overlap you, you made a joker fear about everyone wanting entitlements, not wanting to pay for somewhat ingest, but they got the point. But other some things that you seeing the ban diagram from which there is fruitful progress to be made. You mean

expanding the overlap. For example, they can be This is of opinion with respect to certain policies and the one of the first amendment, but it was. If is it fair to say, maybe I'm wrong about this and we can have a job. How what happens in college campuses but, generally speaking, a mainstream liberal whatever. That means and a mainstream can. It is in America, tend to agree on the importance of the free press? Fair, yes, of course, other other things like that. Yes, I think I do not tar mainstream liberals with the behaviour of academic progresses, who were trying to impose thought control on campuses. I quit them of complicity in that very kind of you know it's it's not yes, but I think it's it's fair to do. I do think that there are intelligent men and women in both camps, who can do a risk but take, and the arithmetic tells us that the entitlement programmes we have under current law are unsustainable,

this is because this is a really predictable crisis, because its driven by demography and demography is destiny for a welfare state, because a welfare state exists to transfer wealth to the elderly. We know how many they are and we know what's happening to the costs of medicine. People understand this and I think they would. I think there will come a time when no be a president who says ok, look. These are all split, a bold differences, Reforma Money, we're not talking about done the meaning of life. You will see that, though we can get back to the business of politics, which is but they never answered the other issue that I thought about because of the prior life. I had that, to my mind, doesn't seem to be conserved issue or a liberal issue. If you can show it, and that is by partisan hatred. Corruption that remain something that is opposed by partisan basis, while the yes vote again

rhetorical everyone's opposed to corruption. The problem is that the modern state which exists to further their national pastime, which is not baseball, it is rent seeking and in fact that we have so blurred the line between what is corrupt and what is simple, normal routine everyday garden. Variety manipulation of the government that it's hard to say what is, corruption and what is normal practice. It has been well said, the term if you set out a picnic, you expect draw ants Picnic in the world is a federal budget. There is reason why five of the ten most affluent counties in the United States by per cap in Cameroon, the Washington area. We have no natural resources, we don't manufacturer anything except rules, laws and trouble, but we get rich, trillions of dollars or sloshing through and being allocated by a government that is far too deeply involved in allocating wealth, an opportunity and is far too

subject to regulatory and other capture. I believe that the for example, whose with warm as a firm grip on half of a point she says, rightly that the government is far too much the plaything of compassion. Intense, articulate, confident, well, lawyers factions but know how to work. The opaque years and pulleys and levers of the government. Where I differ from Elizabeth as she said, for the solutions and make the government really much bigger and much more intrusive and much more energetic and allocating wealth, an opportunity. She really believe but somehow government is suddenly going to become disinterested due respect it was born. I do actually she brings a weight and dignity to politics, eminent, had low the audacity which she has made. I have a plan for that. Her mantra because surely nosey

that's him. If you want to make God laugh, tell him you're plan, you clearly have a boy is that we have, I think, established in this programme towards people who have written books. Yes, do you need me that we should do a minute. I'm I'm well aware of the existence of the new media, twitters Facebook, some all that stuff, but I still think that books are the primary carriers of ideas that books matter, written a great thumping one on that belief that the conservative sensibility- let me say it again- yea for that. Yes, it the greatest publishing events and good came about two Goldwater for a second, of course, when I first started this programme way back no year and change ago, I had on when he was still Senator Jeff like in Jeff Like had written a book also- and I believe, if I remember correctly, that he borrowed the title from Very Goldwater. You are correct.

He said, like you were saying now. Very good water was a hero of his and the model for him. The differences You and him is. He was a sitting senator in an you, worry you're, a writer of books, and he was thinking about MR understand and thinking about doing various things in one he chose not to do was run for re election and I did understand, frankly, how that squared with his adulation for four very cold water, bearing all waters. Is you describe already written uphill race, very appeal against Lyndon Johnson and remained far as I can tell you that I wasn't eliven true to his principles and got thumped, forty, nine states, and then forty forty two forty four states, something that was a semi too, is good to have you on the show? People don't go me when I say done things and then people say I think you're one of them. That networks In that laws in that race conservatism was innocence, launched

then had its its expression more fully in the political world. Ronald Reagan, and there was there's something good about that praise along question. I asked this question a because I wonder how you think about Jeff Lake and that decision not to stand in for Dublin one again, even if you gonna go down in a flaming loss and then second there's any lesson. Therefore, liberals progressives who are debating what kind of person we want in the White House, do they want someone who is it doing more early to some view, liberalism and Progressive ISM in America or someone who can just win, that's an excellent question end I know like in respect of like he would have lost in the primary he wouldn't even got to the general election, so it would have been a truncated attempt to Unfurl a flag was not popular anymore in Arizona. Let me go dear little history here very Goldwater was a reluctant presidential candidate

The closer we ve come to a draft in my lifetime, because the conservative moving kept prodding Yemen moving in this way, and this was in the nineteen sixty two nineteen sixty. Three in nineteen sixty conventionally gone to the convention and say wake up. Conservatives grow up. We can take back. This party then He was being ambivalent about this. On the twenty, second, on November nineteen sixty three Kennedy a shot Lyndon Johnson comes in, water new instantly that the republican nomination was not going to be worth very much because of me and voters were not going to choose to have three presidents and fourteen months, which is what they would have done if they like to Goldwater. So, held back and finally, they said, look someone needs to revitalize the vocabulary of limited government unfurl this flag, you lose, but you will plant seeds and you will change the Republican Party or make it a vessel of of

ideas then. Finally, he said well dammit. Alright I'll do it. He went out had a blast because, knowing he hasn't, gonna Remy went the Term Ass Tennessee and said: let's privatized the tv I am said some things that some of us found bracing these. There Barry Goldwater of the left as we approach twenty twenty well it could be Elizabeth Warren is, I don't count. Bernie Sanders Cosette and take his socialism seriously. She Elizabeth was much more of a socialist Bernie Sanders. What did you take it seriously? What socialism Bernie Sanders socialism? Yes, well because he wanted to find it in the first place like what is so the used to be government ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange then lemon with the new economic policies at one or actually, socialism is government control, the commanding heights of the economy, heavy industry, telecommunications, transportation, Cetera then after the second.

Or more. European socialism was watered down further to the point at which it as regulation of the private sector by the public sector, plus ambitious redistribution of wealth. I am a news bulletin for you. That's America today, sixty seven percent the federal budget is transfer payments. The sky of America is dark, with checks flying back and forth from. Fraction to another. So the there's he pretends that there's a kind of clarity about what socialism is, He actually think Sweden as a socialist countries, Sweden, as more billionaires per capita than we have aside. I just I don't think he's his tended to his facts. What what's been the impact of Fox NEWS realistically on american politics? speak directly to the republican nominating electorate. Trump probably could not have been.

Nominated without Fox NEWS and probably not elected without Fox NEWS. I mean it's it's there at four hundred and forty North Capitol Street right across from the cab holy it is placed. Republican members of Congress can walk in fifteen minutes from their offices and speak directly to their voters. So it's been a mobilizing force and profound one hundred. So that's that's what you're saying that a lot of people say left and right in fact, has a lot of critics and obviously has a lot of people who watch it, but understand. If you look at the numbers on any given if you're talking about Sean Hannity, which I think is or was the pies rated programme? Yes, it's just a few million people, the exact by single digits millions and yet tens of millions of people, though it for Donald Trump, and so I wonder a little bit about this theory that I saw someone challenge of how much in effect Fox can really have. If on any

given day a tiny fraction of the people who make up the thirty nine to forty, one percent of Trump supporters are ever watching it. Do we overstate the impact of Fox news? I think we do, but we should not state the importance of the intense minority of Americans who drive the mandate, an electoral process who are actually active in the turning out of votes three hundred twenty seven million people in this country at any given moment more than three hundred and twenty million of them are not listening to talk, not watching cable television, their wash the car cleaning gutters and raising children and get on with their lives, but the small, intense minorities matter and democracy intensity as much as numbers matters. I guess that's right at how is your experience of Fox news? I, like the people lot of good journalists there. Came to the conclusion that they were right to perform. Their no hard

believes that we want our Mary when I may be the only person who is who work for both Fox and MSNBC and people. Sometimes a g. What's differences over the room, one in one sense and that they both have a base that they may have a core audience and lay faded and lay cater to it. That's a business model. I dont think aiming wicked about it, but in that sense there quite similar you left the Republican Party. I did on June. Third, twenty sixteen the day after Paul Ryan Endorse trumpet, I said: well, that's it did you struggle with it now not been wasn't a close call. If someone is telling gentlemen, cheerful and decent as Paul Ryan was gone to endorse Trump and Trump was gonna, be thoroughly normalize night in on me, part of that. But people always achieve a courage to extend, take any courage so like leaving a church

a political parties, a utilitarian device and when it stops being useful, you go elsewhere. That's all had he judged Paul Ryan today, I think Paula was probably the biggest casually of the Trump Revolution. I know said Paul does well I'm like a say what he thinks Mr Trompe can do that on his own. But of these is not a tramper. He tried he hadn't responsibility. His congressional caucus had made him speaker very high office, huge responsibilities. He tried to work with Mr Trump founded, not worth the candle and left. It was, I think, a civilised, intelligent decision. What is going to happen and twenty twenty we're going to win? Well, one always says if the futures, like the past Axel happen more, if seen recently, that the future sometimes not like the past. Mr Trump has never really approach. Fifty percent approval.

That's a very bad sign for a president, so this should be a very promising year for Democrats. However, I've just reaching into my wallet I carry in my wallet, a little card is going to have to get a bigger card. Cuz I wanna die right all the things that the minecraft, one or another of them have endorsed in public, so the negative ads are already being made about. Let's see terrorists and everyone else, felons in prison should be allowed to vote. We should in private health insurance. That's a good start. A campaign is to offend two hundred and eighty million Americans, rather liked private health, insurance pack? The Supreme Court abolish the electoral college. Everyone knows. That's not gonna happen because takes thirteen states to stop a constitutional amendment. Thirteen small states will stop there. When a green new deal, which would mean the end of meat and aeroplanes, will that, but that's, but that's not actually true, does not mean the end of meat in aeroplanes that well, that

responding to a slogan with slogan a little bit now. What would do that is a quote The talking paper put out by air sea, at a time when six or seven of the current people running for president instantly endorsed it, and then they read it and they said well, were not taken burger endorsement, but that's just aspiration. Well, if it's your aspiration to get rid of meat and aeroplanes, that's good enough, moving onto reparations for slavery, etc, etc? Now the endeavour, surely these are somewhat off putting cumulatively, I think more american say who are these weird people, and why are they talking about these things so for Joe Biden, offer Biden would be fine. Super would be fine. Lady would be fine, sounding Bennet would be fine, their bunch of fine people, their Amy Clover showered be fine.

The question is, are they gonna have enough sense to pick these people, which question reduces too how bad, do they want to win or do they want to make a point. They want to see The message you didn't want to send a president because of the back to the Goldwater question to right back to go right, Goldwater, I guess he decided. He couldn't win, as you pointed out here, the luxury of being able to make a point right and hear every Democrat knows that he or she can win and many people say forces should dictate that they should win. Part of your point is that they don't have the luxury of able to make some points exactly. Ok, so enough about politics. I like him in a few minutes talking to you about writing. We ve had some very important writers on the show now, including yourself. We had by Caroline the the biographer of but Robert Moses and linen Everyone has a different way of going about writing it. Not only do you write books, but you are a prolific writer of columns how'd, you

burn out. When I first started this maintain seventy three. I asked my friend bill, but he was a communist rule. Three columns weak. I said the count you do this every day. Any said the world irritates me three times: world, it irritates or pigs. My curiosity or amuses me or entered It's me twice a week of written on approaching six thousand columns. Now there has never been a day, but I didn't have three or four or five things. I wonder at him. You ve never had on the eve of a column being do no aid, what you might say, it's always clever, never have in my pocket right now. Another little card with column topics I want to get to know give us in cutting me I'll, hang on breaking news. Riotously breaking new uses come into a newspaper near you, let's see arm and writing about the went out.

Come on down the coastguard, which has gotten interesting mission these days and write something about Oberlin colleges, risk. Eleven million dollar fine forum, on slanderer than the social justice warriors got out of control I'm gonna write about the concept of social justice, which is much embraced and rarely defined. I'm gonna write about the popular vote compact, whereby states would agree to vote for the winter, the power- but about the matter who one those particular states. I'm gonna write a book about the increasing interest in Anti Trust with regard to big tech companies and others, and, what's theory of any trust, you have to have to justify that Those are pretty good. You're not gonna, run dry anytime soon now, and you notice, I didn't mention the forty four president, because he's boring

he says what had become of the morning hasn't that's the one thing and entertainer, which is what is there not be as one pedal on New York and he works at all the time when it is Ex rushing accordingly pouring so I've been reading you since I was a teenager back in the eighties. I disagree with a lot of things that you, right, but I was very much admired the writing and I think the most reasonable people then you're a beautiful writer, but you do engage from time to time things fair to say in flourishes, and you do use words that at least when I was younger and had a smaller vocabulary, I would have to It would have to go the dictionary we're gonna, what the hell George will means by this word, and I think you play Rowan expanding my vocabulary and others, so you do is big words. Job view on that usage yeah. When you have seven hundred and fifty words to work with and you're dealing with complex matters. You have to deal in information and new ones, and you have to have the most efficient word possible. In

guy was a couple months ago collar about MIKE pimps and I referred and was only arduous, and I guess I almost crash upstairs website. So they had five thousand people instantly flew to the commission. There's. Nobody is oleaginous. Major means oily, but it was the perfect work, but it's not so efficient George. If people read word and they have to go. Look it up and then maybe they're not finish your column because they go this draft had come, my readers are so devoted. They always get it in their own good, robust english words. They ought to be taken up next or size their answer You think. Writing in this country has gotten worse. Probably everything as everything gotten worse, not everything baseball's, better, never in some ways better I'd do like the social media and commute. Getting into one and forty characters is not helpful.

There is somewhere in the country that intellectuals or not to be trusted. There's a sort of bias against, it seems expertise you have, I think, it's very say, have been will for a long time when you were a child, we made fun of teased mark bullied and because those modest kid now because I wasn't and be all I talked about- was baseball telling the guy I come from an academic families. I fathers of professor floss, being I was surrounded by books and big words. Occasionally lots of talk and it was great, would grow up, but I think I grew up relentlessly militant play normal and unscathed landscape did you are about in high school nope. That's another good thing I learned about die because in the nineteen sixty one everything went, mad men's ties became absurdly wide. So when I bought a boat, I you said the following about your father, then I found really interesting There is no moral power like that of a quiet example

and none more vivid to me than my father's wise, quite example. Morally, more careful than another way to model behaviour, because it is quiet because it says they're just watch what I do. What I say it's because it so bleak direct and for that reason more effective. I think you have a working definition in your head of what justice means. Treating eggs alike, and, unlike some alike, once not mine, it's Aristotle's simple, as that simple, as that I'm I do thinking, though, I'm just coming to get to this on the column. I do think that the adjectives social does not modify justice in the phrase social justice. I don't know what it's doing there. You gave the commencement address at Princeton this year. I did I was, I thought it was worth it wasn't fund for review protesters your turn their back, to indicate that I'm a bed for Tibet,

didn't bother me the subject of your speech. I found interesting and I liked the sentiment. You talked about the importance and the power of praise, your message that in an age of rage of coruscating cynicism and smokiness, all of which is encouraged by the but we call the social media and should become an anti social media in this age. Praise, is considered a sign of weak critical faculties and people become addicted to anger, I think their plight, your son absence light up in their brains, the wayward with cocaine, but in fact said. I hope that these the class of twenty The team leaving Princeton had learned at the university how to praise, because if you learn how to praise aid its pleasure in praising because major savouring and appreciating excellence and means that you have a clue.

Standards, by which you can measure people him things, that's a great pleasure to have those standards and to apply them to take satisfaction from other p excellent is our particular compliment. You perceive that has a gratified you, the most long ago when I first started writing or national view. In them, the magazine was run by Priscilla Buckley Bills, sister she said to me when my became an of my name was alone. It should unknown was mine anyway, because I had because I have a style words as that was rather good, because I have always been drawn the writers with distinctive styles pity Woodhouse, I member Brian, a copy of a pity. What else? was so enchanted. I read seventy three more intrusive way. I am I now because one and nineteen fifty eight at age, seventeen had gone. The college and Trinity College and Hartford.

And I want them New York plug down a neck Lombardo New York Post in and I read Murray Kempton, wonderful columnist, No one ever did more with seven hundred words. He had a style that day he actually knew where he got it. He said was from Clarendon history. The great rebellion in England was a bit broke, but wonderful If I read a column without a name attached to it and has word car skating in it over the sun rose. Oleaginous, yes can grow, and on the book. Good luck with the rest of the book. Tour The conservative sensibility George will thank you for being with us and thank you for all the great reading provided this over the years, and I enjoyed this very this very much together thanks every week. We have a special bonus for members of the cafe insider community this weekend either. Bonuses like delving to George will column again

opinions on James Madison Baseball and had crews the worst law, John Mccain, ever passed and wood will really thinks about Senator Elizabeth warrant to hear that and get the exclusive. Glee, Cathay insider Podcast, sign up today a cat. They D come slash insider the very things that I thought about: ending the show with about over the last number of days, but then late last evening the most preeminent jurists in history, the country, just as John Paul Stevens passed away It was ninety nine years old was the third longest injustice in the history of the Supreme Court of his country point. Nineteen, seventy five by the short serving President Gerald Ford, but you may not know, is it before becoming a joke. Back in nineteen forty one John Paul Stevens volunteered for the Navy

Precisely one day before December, seventh, one thousand nine hundred and forty one a date which will live in infamy, so he was a proud American served, his country, here's a fact about John Paul Stevens, not quite a serious one. Double Stevens was actually at the stadium in Wrigley Field. In nineteen. Thirty, two at the age of when Babe Ruth Famous Yankee slugger, appear to call his shot and hit a home run into the center feel stands in a very young future Supreme Court, just as John Paul Stevens got the thrill of a lifetime seeing that Some he evolves in his thinking over time, which I think is a good thing. Why don't you think, solution is a living document or frozen in time people, to evolve in their views, and the one area in which he seems to evolve very significantly was with respect to his views on the death penalty, and, as you got on in years, he can

to believe, more and more of the death penalty was not right and the death penalty was not just an actually began to advocate that the eighth amendment to the constitution should be amended. With the addition of five new words so that it would read excessive bail, shall not be required or excessive fines imposed. Nor cruel and unusual punishment, such as the death penalty inflicted. One of the most famous descents, the John Paul Stevens ever wrote, rings in people's ears to this day and it was this back to the two thousand election case law should Gore and see At the end of his descent quote, although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's presidential election, the idea the loser is perfectly clear. It is that, since confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law and quote unless the retired justices. John Paul Stevens remained outspoken about the long and about the court. Even

he sat in retirement. He was critical about Cavanaugh called among qualified for the Supreme Court because it is part of the language during assented hearing and continue to talk about the death penalty, but thing, you think about a person not often in life, but compelled to think about after they pass That is how big a brain they had has marked. They were, but the heart the head- and I didn't John Paul Stevens. Personally, I think I met him in passing just once, but I know a lot of who did into a person for this and television, the various testimonials and newspaper articles. He was a lovely man who not only worked hard but cared about people care about his clerks cared about individuals and had not just a big brain but a big heart and story captors. It well that was posted in your times and let me just read from it quote: one former law clerk Christopher L, ICE Gruber describing the nineteen. Ninety three essay an incident at a party for new clerks before Justice Stevens arrived an older male justice,

had instructed one of the few female clerks present to serve coffee when Justice Stevens entered he quickly grasp. This Asian walked up to the young woman and said thank you for taking your and with the coffee. I think it's my turn now and he took over the jobs. Does John Paul Stevens may rest in peace Well, that's it! For this episode of state too, thanks again to my guest George will stay tuned is presented by CAFE the exact producer is tomorrow, suffer the senior producer is Aaron's daughter and the cap. Eighteen, Carl appearing Julia Doyle, Calvin Lord than a basket and Jeff arguments are music by Andrew Duff. I'm Preet Bharara stay simply

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