Support for this episode comes from Chile type you're staring your inbox waiting for a newly to confirm the time for their product Emma staring anyway waiting waiting waiting, surely pie. Paves the waiting game there, concierge tools, built by marketers for people to know that speed to lead is the name of the game. It doubles inbound conversions into. leads in the meetings instant by eliminating the weight time between form filled and response turn meetings into leads instantly visit. Chile, Piper Doc, slash box to learn more. That's chile, Piper Dotcom Flash Box from CAFE, welcome to stay tuned. I'm prepared It is a strange example: we got conservative parties around the world to become revolutionary, but that's not what conservative he's a fork exempted bodies, are there preserve institutions and to fend off

radical change at a time when the body Uk you can draw your own parallels elsewhere has become revolutionary forces. It does have echoes of the ultra left in that its elevated to the article of the achievement of purity an ideological purity but is really dangerous David Miliband he's been in the EU forgot about a decade, but before that he was headed palace. For Tony Blair's new Labour party and foreign secretary, a cabinet position, Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, we talked about parliament's breaks. It. The UK new Prime Minister and his big heading the International Rescue Committee. But first, let's get to your questions. That's coming up stated a box. Now CAFE has a weekly newsletter to help you make sense of the new cycle, see for yourself a cat. Dot com. Slash brief, each Friday, the cafe

Recap, news and analysis of politically charged legal matters sign up to and formed a Kapital come Slash brief and you'll get show notes for state. sent right, your email inbox, that's cafe I can't slash brief agreed common calling from Atlanta Georgia. I love your pipe gas. I have a question about the second amendment. I understand that it protects the rights of Americans to keep in their arms ratifies, and seventeen may be why I guess I'm really frustrated with all of the EU are shootings, and I wonder if you could be a little bit tonight bewildered

about how solve weapons and modern destructive weapons technology are allowed because back in seventeen, eighty one for the arms that they were they got that American should have a right bear will primarily like muskets. I was taking up, isn't terms of another constitutional amend issue which was prohibition. The eighteenth amendment started prohibition, and then it was changed by the twenty percent limit, which ended. Prohibition was problematic and it will not work. So what can be done about a time is thinks we're question erase a lot of interesting points that I think you're getting fresh attention since the mass shootings over the past week and analysed by virtue of the fact that were in the presidential contest and every single one of them. The contenders, as articles have been pointing out a sort of of the same view that things need to be done now. This point about

taking literally the words the founders put into the second member, the bill of rights. If you want make it literally that it was meant to preserve and protect only the of arms that were known to folks back and seven Ninety one you people have suggested provocative. when that must mean necessarily that all those basalt weapons and other modern firearms can easily be prohibited, but that's not have a Supreme Court has dealt with the issue to me. What's really important right now is to do what is possible to be done. You have ninety percent of people in America who are supportive of universal background checks if seventy plus per cent of people in America, supportive of a gun registry or thirty day, waiting period, all of what have mass support, and I've had my support for a very long time and maybe some impetus to do something about it. I saw in the last couple of days more than one Republican with private We had a good and are a rating suggesting openness to some of these provisions. A constitutional amendment, though not impossible,

the very difficult to achieve, and I'm not saying one where the other that it's a good idea. I mean yes, it's true that America decided when asked prohibition and decide to undo prohibition on the space of a few years. But my We have equal rights amendment pending for years and years and years now in can't get that done, and that seems a lot less controversial. then doing something to the second amendment. It seems to me that there, out of common sense things we can do about which there is. consensus and has been consensus for a long time, and they require We passing some laws, not amending the constitution, and let's start with that, let's get that done. Let's get focused on that. here's, an email from listener, Wendy Holtzman, who writes? I love your show. Thank you for helping keep American formed. I don't understand why the gun safety advocates in addressing the second amendment aren't always invoking the Heller decision. It seems very straightforward to me Can you shed some light on this Well Wendy, She said light on this by quoting directly in your email to me from the Heller decision was an important central Supreme Court decision about the second

and I'll just read the rest of your email in the Heller decision. Scully wrote quote like most right, The second amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner and for whatever purpose. Furthermore, you quote nothing Opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill or laws for the carrying of firearms and sensitive places such as schools and government buildings or laws posing conditions and qualifications. commercial sale of arms. Close quote that's about right there, a lot of room, even under current Supreme Court jurisprudence. even in opinions penned by the late justice, Galicia. That give a lot of room and support to all sorts of common sense regulations that are being proposed, even as we speak so yeah People should be citing to the Heller decision and ethically a portion of it in their debates with folks from the NRA and others who opposes this question

in a tweet from Listener Rodrigo Shackle, you're, a typewriter fan show from Honduras nice to know we have international reach, do prosecutors taken here. The considerations regarding international political ramifications of the cases they bring forward against foreigners, in U S soil, hashtag, aspirate where'd, you re question in a complicated one as people. Now, if you follow the track record in the dock, others have industry from Europe. We borderline cases internationally rare cases against narcotics, traffickers, international arms traffickers, people who came material support to terrorist organisations. So we had a constant since in other countries doing with law enforcement agencies also on cyber, for example, on one of my favorite statistics from my first years, you journey was this in any given year: prosecutors from my this in southern district, visited between forty and forty five different countries, because crime goes global in the threat becomes internet the arm of the law has to get a little longer. Not everyone love that and, of course, there were sometimes cases where there are set issues relating to international relations and powder,

a general matter. The Justice department pursues crimes that he can prove beyond reasonable doubt. an impact on United States if someone's trying to import drugs into United States at someone's plotting a case against Unite It's a summons, engaging in espionage towards United States. We brought the case and that's that, depending on the shore, chances in the sensitivity I'll give me example of maybe the more the most sensitive cases. We brought to remind tire time along the lines that you're mentioning and that's the russian spy case from the summer of twenty ten. Where we Ten, russian spies operating in United States in an ended up engaging in a spy swamp after they play guilty to those crimes.

that was obviously something given the relationship between the Eu S in Russia and the foreign policy implications that we brought cause. We thought it was appropriate to bring, but there were discussions at the highest levels of the government, including with the State Department, about how we would proceed so their sensitivity to those things. My view was always a law and order governs the rule of law matters and doesn't matter where you're from other parts of the government. I like the State Department, if they about the case. We may be put forward its objections or it sensitivities, and then someone at a higher pay grid than either the many general. The sector's state might way in and resolve the difference of opinion in those things really dependence herbs, but some it is a consideration. My guess this week is David Miliband headed the International Rescue Committee. A nonprofit started in nineteen. Thirty three by Albert,

instead the icy offers humanitarian aid, relief and resettlement for refugees, and displaced people and more than forty countries around the world. Last year, the icy help over five thousand refugees. We settle in America and today is a record. Sixty eight million displaced people around the world, if you're interested in ways to empower those people in need, go to he's not or to find out how you can help David Mill abandoned. I discussed his own refugee story, the conflict that are displacing people and his role in the crisis, forgot his reactions to the UK new Prime Minister and the easy comparisons of Forest Johnson Donald Trump. That's coming up. It is stated, is afforded by the new Yorker, some of them in writing in America today enjoy them. Emily no spam, Pulitzer Prize winning television critic for the new Yorker or Marcia

It was written about the rise of Vladimir Putin and the disagreements between Trump Pelosi and the squad stay tuned. We often turned to the new Yorker for our research and learn a great deal We did with the profiles of twenty twenty presidential candidates. In my recent guests, Andrew Yang and wholly on Castro, get twelve weeks were just six dollars. New York or TOAD bag, weekly home delivery of the print addition and unlimited, as the new Yorker dot com with exclusive site only stories every day when you go to New York and I come slash- preach and enter the code to treat you will also be able to access the APS Online Archive Crossword Puzzle and, more again, that New Yorker dot com, slash preach and enter the code preach to say fifty percent on a twelve weeks subscription and get that exclusive tub stay tuned is also supported by America's number one: milk, it hello, fresh easy, seasonal recipes and pre measured ingredients delivered right to your door. All you have to do is cook and enjoy prepared

just meals at home, with step by step, recipes and pre. Measured ingredients you'll have everything you need to get a while worthy dinner on the table and about thirty minutes say goodbye, went grocery store trips and take out hallo fresh. Has you covered with family run These vegetarian and fun menu series like Hall of Fame and craft burgers, there's something for everyone I love how hello fresh, let you break out of a dinner rights and if you find yourself travelling, it's easy to change delivery or even skipper weak for eighty dollars off your month. Fellow fresh gonna, hallo, fresh dot com, slash, stay tuned eighty and enter stay tuned. Eighty, it's like receiving eight meals, only it hello, fresh dot, com, slash, stay tuned. Eighty promo code stay tuned. Eighty David Miliband. Thank you so much for being on the shelf. Thanks brings good. We would it so urgent,

hell, folks that we are not recorded in our usual studio, we're in Europe, so that the International Rescue Committee in Midtown are far from Grand Central so fearsome background noise, that's the bustle of the great city of New York. Thank you for coming to our way of our important, so our travel for like you, so you been in Europe along with the need for nearly six years, so do now like New York more than London, now why does I'm a Londoner peoples? Are chanting? Send him back. I know that's the danger, but I can't you wouldn't want one who abandons the country quite easily. do you like them close to the same. No but then you'd say over there the politician in you, you haven't become a true ngo. Wherever you know, you're alleging weaving politician, I feel very lucky to be living in such an extraordinary city. My family's here,

the organization unworkable, gives me enormous is a real privilege and withering amazing stuff in a way could only exist in New York. Yes, on action, The Einstein came to New York in the nineteen thirteen that he founded the I'll see to rescue Jews from Europe that is built on that base to become this global organization. But London is an amazing city, because it's got three hundred and sixty degrees of history. Culture, everything's concentrated in a way that the finance the politics that culture is a more centralized countries in a way of an unfair comparison, sir, per London with anyway? I was just in London when my family, all through my kids and with my wife, we quite liked it went to the Churchill WAR rooms. We spend hours in the dread of worms, as was tremendous. I was made my kids opted every significant spot. You listen to the to the audio tour, while red did all the reading and then we also

to parliament and what I didn't know until were ushered into the room. Unlike with the USA House of Representatives and Senate, you can't go onto the floor as a tourist. There was weekend for us in London, which is, I guess why we got to stand in the two members because it was we can you raise a week and they let you do that. Did you not have us, but you have a special friend who was, I did not have a special friend I put it to you. I found you as my friend, but it is good, and doesn't them has comes amazing that it is so the law becoming members of the House of Commons six, fifty six, fifty that room clearly cannot contain six. Fifty, so you ve got me. sitting on both sides opposite each other, which makes unusual for a debating chamber because usually there in the round- and you got standing room and sitting room, and so, if you ve got six. six and fifty mps in their which they might before Primus questions or for a set peace debate. A big debate It's a real. It gives meaning that word cacophony mean yet another thing. It is proper debate because you can make a speech, but its very unlike

if your front rank politician to get through the speech without taking interruptions in directions from the other side which, if you refuse to take Then you're a chicken and yet when the debate and then, if you do take them, there's a small alike. On the other side, who quote something against you, and so it does its proper debate. There is a new prime minister as of a week ago, named Boris Johnson, many Americans may know by his hair cut. Most people in the UK never voted for him. Now he's a party leader. I mean we're a parliamentary democracy. Parliament is sovereign. The queen always has a problem, so she's, never without her prime still or without a government, and he was elected by His party's oversee was elected MP from his district is strictly up with this, number of being elected, a member of the House of Rubbish as in the average size of my constituency, is about sixty five thousand people, so one tenth the size of your Russian, a dinner party leader, is elected again, not by a large constituency but by a subset of citizens in the

Kay about a hundred forty thousand, who am I the conservative party and have you become a member of the conservative party? You sign up to the values because everybody and pay at twenty five pounds years and had entitled Europe than tells you let a tory leadership. Election year I mean of my own history with hearty legislative elections which we're gonna get might get into oil or not. But I think that the bigger point the countries in the biggest crisis its faced outside wartime, probably ever I'm in the referendum, on. Membership of the European Union has created a wrecking bull aim, not just of the economy of the United Kingdom, but also at its politics and its constitution. Because in Northern Ireland in Scotland the debate about whether the people they want to Part of the United Kingdom has been given fresh impetus, and so it grieves me along to see not just the echo damage in the reputational damage, but the real threat that exists, because a parliament democracy had pitted against the mandate of a people's vote.

and three other foreign minister arguing again having a referendum on the ground. that referendums word the prerogative of demagogues and dictators The parliamentary democracy would be threatened by the creation of an alternative man and I'm very sorry to say that that is true is unjust. rapes, that I was on the wrong side of fifty two forty eight decision. It's that time when liberal democracy is under threat, all around the world hundred and thirteen countries of had democratic recession. Since two thousand and six, At the U K, it should have added fuel to the fire with this challenge to parliamentary government. So, on this issue a breaks, it is very complicated for a lot of people, especially on the side of the coin. It's a bit like California, or maybe a better example Texas deciding to secede from the union. Some people would favour that

in Amerika will actually most european must constantly Europeans right, she's, sad about Britain, leaving not sorry, despite the fact that we can be a pain in the ass, but that referendum happened over your opposition and other people's opposition, but breaks hasn't been achieved. Yet now, bores Johnson is taken office. He's promise to do what, by, when he's promising that, at the end of the six month tension from negotiations that was agreed between the previous government and the European Union should October the thirty first Halloween by happy coincidence, we will leave, he says, come hell or high water do or die whether or not there is a negotiated agreement for Britain's economic security, social, educational relations with the European Union and this

is not like deciding not to go ahead with a house purchase is not saying no deal. I thought I was going to buy that house, but not games on the same as I've got it saying, I'm going to scrap the architecture and the water supply and the structure of the house? I've got amend the moose somewhere else. By constantly what is going to be so you're saying it's not responsible, it is grossly irresponsible, is an act of unilateral political disarmament is an act of economic lunacy and its driven by a phantom and the phantom is the idea that Britain is a victim of european federalism. The european federalism- and there is no victimhood for Britain, so you think what Boris Johnson wants to have happened in six months will come to pass, or is there a way to avert what you think will be a further crisis I think that he's, on the one hand, justifying this course of action on the grounds that it will force the European Union to make concessions, but that's life

and you see this revolver go in front of me. I'm not pick it up and blew my brains out unless you do what I say, and sometimes economic welfare, but sometimes feels I will blow your brains out alone. We don't blow my brains out. You know you're welcome to go ahead. So, on the one hand he trying to If I, on the grounds of increase leverage, on the other hand, he sang look, it's not so bad breaking off these relations with the European Union bad there's, a big wide world out the present trumps waiting to do a trade deal with me says as Boris Johnson he's using those two justifications, I think. In truth, he hasn't really come to terms with the country. Sins of either approach. My fear or my my expectation, but a way of putting it is even be stuck between come the last weeks of October, it's gonna, be the markets, passing judgment, even more than they are at the moment, and that in politics is very up in the air or what happened to the markets when he took over, although tanked, and they ve tank, because no deal drugs. It is such a risky course. It is

strange example, we ve got conservative parties around the world who have become revolutionary, but that's not what conservative therefore conservative parties are there to preserve institutions and to fend off radical change, we're living at a time when the conservative party UK you can draw your own. Parallels elsewhere has become revolutionary forces in a way it does have echoes of the ultra left in that its elevated to the pinnacle of achievement, a pure t an ideological purity that is really dangerous. Can you make any assessment of poorest Johnson's leadership abilities apart from exit someone who's made its prime minister? It is that we would be foolish to underestimate him. Look he's he's, got a good education, some people say put an education to waste. We went to, he went to the university, I went quietly, but he went to eat and besides I didn't go there. Look it don't underestimate him. He's got good education. He he's, unlike President Trump in an important

why, in the he really bends, the wind- whatever you say about present from, has been saying the same things about free trade since nine natures he's gotta, three or four consistent beliefs that he back to Paris. Johnson has far less of an ideological anchor, but he has attached himself to this Briggs cause. I think because he saw as the routes to leadership because everybody on the promised a ship that he and his heart was wanted and he was correct and he was great. Does he know history? He knows he's got his own voice. Of history is usually with him appearing in. It but he's written he's written widely. He can quote Pericles to you, but I can look. It is important not to underestimate him, and I think that you shouldn't compete with him at the level of a juxta. I think you have to take him. The people is on on the grounds of war, whether or not they couldn't live over the people. They say they gonna support. Is he

populist. I dont know what you mean by that. If, by that you mean someone who's antithetical to pluralism, which is what some of the academic literature would say about a populist someone who wants to play the people of the will of the people against a pluralist society. At than that's right, I think, is he trucking native ism and nationalism? Yes, he is. What do you think Bourse Johnson's elevation means for UK? U S relations! I think that he is going to throw in his law with making it deals with present from, I think he's. Gonna want to cleave to wars

Trump Administration and he'll have very little power to say no to what they want. The constraints on him. Is that not just present from personally but the policies of the trumpet ministration, whether in respect of climate change or in respect of immigration or in respect of IRAN, a very unpopular in the UK, and that will be a constraint so talk about I'll drop a little bit. There was something of a scandal in the last couple of months with respect to the Uk Ambassador to the Eu S, and you have obviously a lot of experience with diplomacy. Can foreign relations are no? This is new and novel to you so there's some cable sent by the Uk Ambassador that we're late that set some derogatory things about Donald Trump, his leadership style and maybe his abilities that became known and so then, under pressure. He resigned from the position not before which style Trump himself tweeted. Some thanks precisely about him, I believe, use.

With respect to that incident, the Boers Johnson was spineless why'd. You say that, because in the debate about that, Brussels refused to support the ambassador, while he was still imposed there was a conceptual leadership. Election and Brush Johnson refused a born ambassador and his right to accept his opinion. I thought that was terrible, really not just because he's a former foreign secretary but can Derek the ambassador was a man of enormous common sense. He was on the least pompous people. I know he was accused pomposity by present trumpery. Wasn't the pompous person? Extreme experience diplomat my thought it was. The responsibility of aspirant premises are poor. People service and support the civil servants in the world. The doing do you think it was tenable, though, for someone who should not have had those cables legal was giving his best opinion assessment, which is what people do all the time and by the way many would argue there were not wrong. Assessments was a tenable for him to continue that once those things became public life certainly think the cost of

his enforced resignation was greater than the cost of him staying on. He was due to retire anyway in the six to twelve months, and I think that the message that went to the rest of the foreign office, which is beware what you say it is not a good message, because in the modern age. You know what I was foreign minister. I didn't need member states to do the routine things. I could text a foreign ministers. Are you going following meeting no need to catch you for five minutes, I could text another minister to say that, but you do need a really good, Amber tell you what s really going on underneath the surface of the country that your negotiating without dealing with, and so I think there was a follower. Do you think that nations generally in the West are turning more inward? Yes, is irreversible course. Well, yes, it is, and I think it has to be reversed. Look vessel the facts about the in turn our evidence. You dont, have to argue that there is is met on the rampage to see that post the financial crisis posted

lings in Iraq and Afghanistan. This being a drawing in by the west. Secondly, is it a problem? Yes, it's a huge problem because we're living in an age of interdependence we're living in an age when country and peoples are more closely linked together, not by climate but by concerns about public health or nuclear security or economic into dependence, and so the need for countries cooperate is greater than ever is all I see that in my own work would be enough. Rescue committee is a global humanitarian charity. We're facing what I call the age of impunity. That means that bad actors around the world drop chemical weapons, they's besieged communities, they target civilians, they target aid workers. It's been western countries of liberal democratic, Hugh that have pushed back against that over the last seventeen years, all countries signed up to the Un Charter, but it was driven from.

nineteen forty one hundred charter, the meeting of Churchill and rose well in Newfoundland, who said that the post war order could not repeat the mistakes of the into war period that the rights of peace oh needed, to sit alongside the rights of states to build international order. it is now what is in retreat is not as western power in retreat. It's the values of the enlightened but are in retreat to and their founded on the rights of individuals? Can it be reversed? I think it needs to be reversed. Not just in the interests of prosperity, bitten interests, apiece frankly, but

as an international order in the modern age that doesn't have institutions for global cooperation, is going to be a very unstable and very unequal international disorder. So the retreat from what had been in the international order, while the origins of that you think, I think the origins of the retreat a significantly to fold. One is foreign policy failure, notably in Iraq, but the second is the economic crisis, the seeds of which came before toothache labour, which exploded in two thousand and one other factor which is obviously relevant to this, the shift in economic power towards emerging economies, notably, I know, but not only means that then to be a shift in the global balance of power. There was a shift in the global bounds of economic power that needs to be reflected in political power as well I think that those are the origins of it. I think it was inevitable that there

be a rebalancing. The way in which the West has gone into retreat has put the most vulnerable people in the world, at a disadvantage as weaken the multilateral system, at a time when it is needed more than ever, and its contribution to global instability, what in particular about the Iraq war votes on it in individual countries and also the prosecution of it, has helped to unravel the world order? I think you can think about that politically. Morally and institutionally, politically. It turned out to be a disastrous strategic error. Morally thee. that was lost as a result of our grave and other elements, and instead Finally, obviously, the going round- the, U N, set a very bad press- and I was its peripherally involved in tunnels- speech in Chicago in ninety ninety nine, at the time of the Kosovo conflict, which set five tests in what he the doctrine of international community and one of those tests was about

the U N and its role. So I think institution it has been an undermining and its given licence to all sorts of bad or rogue actors too. eve that they can just do their own thing. So what things you dealt with early on in your tenure as form Sir, was the killing of Alexander Livin Anko. Do you think the West has learned anything from that incident and other ever any consequences for Russia and for Putin for engaging that kind of conduct? Why? western learns mustn't, it was it was. It was a rogue action, it was the actions of a rogue state and they ve been repeated subsidy, lie in the invasion of Georgia: the invasion of crime. Than the attempted assassination of MR scriptural former KGB agent. Now british citizen and frankly, the attempts to destabilize liberal democracy. I know you disgust, Miller, etc, There wasn't a is a sustained attempt to destabilize american democracy

wasn't, he is a sustained attempt to destabilize european democracy funding of far right parties, interference in elections. The question is not one we ve learned lessons. The question is whether the Russians have learned and I'm afraid, and they ve learned so far. That they can get away with a law as long as they fragments and weaken the countries of liberal democracy and if they find allies elsewhere and that's what they. The inner. There obviously decline economy in various ways, but they are mobilizing their power in a far more effective way than will, which just to the work that you're doing now. Two very important work of the Irish Sea relating to the plight of refugees around the world, refugees and displaced people, refugees and displaced people. Yes, Thank you. You yourself are the child of refugees. Tell us about your your background. Your parents it is interesting how is become perhaps obviously, more importance to me given the job I'm doing, but in the kind of british way I think are forbidden.

Examined my own history. Very much when I was younger, eminently introspection is not. British characteristic is not one of our national strength, but when I think about it much altered was, I can read things into the way my parents live their lives and brought up me and my brothers, kids. That speaks that my dad was Fiji from Belgium in nineteen forty, he was born in Brussels. He lived in Brussels where his Dad was a leather worker, my mom was a refugee from Poland and nineteen. Forty six, survived the war in Poland, both judge and my mom's father was killed quite recently, discovered he was killed in a concentration camp outside took on general nineteen, forty five actually and the Holocaust the background music to my child, and I was born in nineteen sixty five and my parents, maybe like many people were affected

the war because they ve been through and they seen such hell and they lost so many people in their families. They wanted to protect their offspring. They want to give them more secure, and so I had a very the middle class unspectacular childhood. That was notable. I look back for its security knobsticks. wealthy but secure an assumption in the nineteen seventies middle class that you could graduate into the middle class. And so I think that when I applied for the job here, the international rescue committees- with three reasons I wanted to say the job one was that I liked difficult problems and the problems that the icy faces. How You get medical aid into Syria, how'd, you teach girls, suffering under the Taliban in parts of Afghanistan. How do you promote successful integration refugees into societies where they land. I like difficult questions. Secondly, I thought but the icy was bliss sleeping giant. What could be more striking than-

we found a balanced one Thirdly, I said both my parents were refugees and so that I had a sense that I could close the circle and giving back to people who For me, the same religion is my parents who won same situation, but had elements of commonality that drew me to their cause. Your recollection of what the attitude was in the UK and elsewhere too, refugees and displaced persons when you were younger and the change in Britain's? Obviously, different from America in that its much less of an immigrant, society, although people becoming Britain for thousands of years for around Europe now I'm not practising Jews, who I'm not more culturally fish than religiously jewish, if you know I'm in and I spent four years. My children leads are not in an especially cosmopolitan part of the UK. I didn't feel hostility, but I suppose

went out of my way to integrate and implicated The ties, my difference when I was foreign secretary I was just say: people, I'm a foreign secretaries. Jewish, not jewish foreign secretary, does a nuance there that important now thee the antagonism to foreigners peaks at all times, I mean in the nineties. In the UK there was huge most to align people from Hong Kong to come to the UK tonnes. I'm in government to Canada they made huge successive themselves have been great. If we let them know there was a peak of hostility late nineties, when we were in government about Kosovo refugees for the Balkans, and you know from your own history in the twenties here- is not a new phenomenon young, even in nothing, nothing! Forty, the washing posted, a poultry Americans in one allowed used to come to America, so I did have a strong sense of that as a child, but I think I and go out of my way to find a either I'll, be back.

David Miliband, right after this statement lot of businesses have the same problem: a hug, of systems that keeps them from seeing the real numbers? One system for accounting, another for sales, another four inventory, and so on its big mass that takes up too much time resources introducing nets. We buy Oracle, the business judgment software that handles every aspect of your business. It's easy to use cloud platform that gives you the vis, building control you need to grow with nets. We save time and money by man sales, finance and accounting borders and hr instantly right from your desktop or phone. That's why that's. Why is the world's number one cloud business system right now, that's? Why is offering you valuable insights with a free guides? Seventy strategies to grow your profits at nets. We dotcom slash priests, that's nets we dot com, slash preach to download your free guide seventies.

Allergies, to grow your profits nets. We dot com, slash preach before them David Miliband told me about peaks of intolerance towards people from other places. I asked him: does haven't organically, or is it the leaders stoking fear ways to why isn't is evidently two way in? That's? U can legitimize the illegitimate if the leadership is of a particular character, I think that there is also the factor of sheer scale and pace of change in demography. People write about this, some of the peaks or associate with essential forum born in different countries and the pace of change that suddenly been the case in two part of Europe. We should never underestimate what a challenge is to integrate people into society. nor the benefits than can come from. I saw for myself in the way Britain changed. Actually, if you think about Britain, the Seventys and Britain in the two thousands of two thousand and ten now is

doubtingly, a far more confident. Oars became much more confident as well as diverse country and, what's tragic, I think, post. The financial crisis is how that confidence has been lost, so the Irish Sea thieves a sense of the scope of the issue if the Irish Sea deals with, but also its impressive to me. Maybe people don't appreciate this. The Irish Sea is a huge organisation with a presence in so many places describe both the apparatus that you have and what the biggest challenges are so we're in it. humanitarian aid organisation that works across the arc of crisis from the war zone, so Northwest Syria. Today, parts of South Sudan has the Democratic republic. Hunger. We work from the war zone to the rest of that kind, we were people flee to escape violence. We work in the bring states whether a refugees, people who have left their own countries result of war and conflict. We work on refugee transit routes, books of flee

Tunisia up to Libya trying to get to Europe, and we will to help resettle refugees and asylum seekers in countries that they land and we got twenty five offices across the: U S that are resettling refugees, the trumpet mister, and is massively reduced. The number refugees were allowed to come, but we ve got a hundred nine field sites around the world, employing thirteen thousand employees with about fifteen thousand an additional auxiliary workers, her daily paid staff? On hundred and nine hundred million dollar organization, with more or less doubled in size in the last six years and we are an old man that doesn't just deliver hell for water and sanitation or education. We try and meet them. Of the whole person on the wall behind me, Z, our strategy map. We say that we're helping people survive recovering gang. or their lives are work fits into too far. Main areas of helping people survive, helping their health education. That income economics is really important to us because

refugees and displaced people out of their own homes. For long time they need an independent source of income as well as international aid, and finish the picture. We more or less. Seventy five percent government funds governments around the world of thy undermine in dollars and with twenty five percent by individuals, foundations and corporations are very different countries. Are we in the fund you, the fund, us probably about half a dozen main funders? U S UK Weedin European Union does the whole Germany and private under the spread around the world like the: U S, under the leadership of Trump dramatically reduced the number of refugees and displaced persons admitted. How does it affect you and the organization it affects us both directly and indirectly? The direct way affects us is that's more refugees of traps outside this country waiting to be allowed in them in their a hundred thousand iraqi We worked for the: U S: military of diplomats who have a special visa state, as that would allow them to come to. You

only a hundred fifty have been allowed in this year. This is these: are people put their lives on the line for the? U S, what do you think about the Iraq or Afghan was? These? Are people who put themselves on the line, but also refugees from Congo or else web all religions Eighty percent reduction in muslim refugees, sixty percent reduction in question refugees under the Trump administration, so we're up directly affected, was we're helping fewer people as resolve those decisions. Indirectly, there are governments around the world who say well Trump Administration not taken refugees whenever they refuse and that we will push them out. I suppose I should have said one other direct effect. If you think about the crisis, the southern bore the reduction in international. U S! Aid to countries like El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras- that has a pretty derives, affect you, hey we're working in those countries, but be it helps drive the flow of people that were saying to the southern border of abstract or something the second ago, so the american present decide who introduced the numbers and then leaders of other resale. Maybe we'll just follow suit. Is that because There- weighted by some logic, whether using as an excuse, because it I want to spend the money.

but more as an excuse, and there are also worried about what their own population are. Gonna say in twenty. Sixteen belatedly them Bomber administration raised a number of refugees being allowed into the. U S for more than sixty sixty five thousand ninety thousand and hey Presto, let of other countries stepped up to do the same thing so, rocket science. When the? U S, resources from ninety thousand two twenty thousand, then you get a reduction now that he's import to give you listen as a bit of sense of the scale, though, because refugee resettlement helps a tiny proportion of those who were expelled from their own countries by conflict, persecution around the world. Today you talk about twenty and a half million refugees and asylum seekers people have left their own country, not for economic reasons, but for political reasons, another forty one, forty two million who are still within their own country, but our homeless as a result, war or persecution. So these are world record, breaking levels and deep our of example, is especially striking

time when the problem is not so much was What are the arguments you would make, or you would give people who say? Look we have enough of our own problems. We can't solve other people's problems. What's the organ politically, emotionally, the people should be making about. Why did you care about this more? I think. First, these people are productive Buzz of society when they arrive. We know that from all the data, but we also know of einstein- became a proud of and remind us again. You said I think I want people to miss it. What's the relationship of Albert Einstein to the Irish to our eyes, I help create the National Rescue Committee. When Eleanor Roosevelt reported to him that President Roosevelt was willing to admit more Jews into the. U s I'll buy Stein and fifty others in New York help set up international Rescue committee to work in occupied Europe to get fake passports to help people escaped from the Nazi. So

The first point is from Einstein's Madeleine Albright to Sedgy Bryn people come to America and been productive contributors here, not a burden here for important. Secondly, it's hard to get to the Eu as a refugee them through any other route. In other words, the security vetting is real and serious. Third there's a moral obligation to those in Iraq, Conniston who worked for you put. lives on the line to come here forth and, very importantly, when talking about most of the world's refugees coming here. They trump administration perfectly legitimately said We want to build resilience of people in the countries to which refugees, most of those countries of poor countries, not rich countries. Bangladesh has taken several Fifty thousand ruhinga refugees. In the last eighteen months, Uganda has taken one: the half million south sudanese refugees, these outcomes. With income per head, one fiftieth of the: U S level so had had.

splain than the generosity and the welcoming major of a convoy Bangladesh, because they felt that the ethnic cleansing going on next door was so unconscionable that even they didn't want the ring to become Bangladeshis that consider them to be real Bengali is, They saw that blocking the building a wall. If you like them, holding keeping offences closed, was unconscionable. I'm an I ask: when in northern Uganda he was, the deputy chairman of the local District council, Northern Uganda such him in a domestic politics here was alone poor Ugandans and he said let these people are our brothers and they helped us twenty or thirty years. In the worst days, a video mean, and we have to help them now. You won't answer this question, but by a dash due to rank countries that are facing an influx of potential.

jeez, which are the most welcoming lodging in Dublin, also mean children, and I will ask ITALY's, is quite surprising really if you look at employment and other aspects of welcome Uganda is actually top of the list, Uganda gives every refugee who arrives land, they let them travel, where in the country they give them full access to public services, including kids, and they support them in to work and so the forty percent of female, figures we have put our report about is forty percent female, she's in Uganda are working so surprising, but Uganda comes out top bottom of the league him in his heart to try and figure that was those who are most vicious towards refugees, don't let them in the first place. So it's what we know is that there are killing fields in Syria. Yemen humanitarian catastrophes and that's the worst place to live. What's most gratifying part of this job that you do

the feeling that making difference that we're making differences. My colleagues make indifference day by day, someone once went to M D awesome. Democratic Republic of Congo and said. If you look at the statistics, you get depressed. If you look at the people, you have hope, and if you're in politics you can see them picture, but the danger is that you lose sight of the individual if you're in and you were you autonomy- well better one life at a time. The great gratification is that you can see the individuals we think we helped twenty five million individuals last year, but the great ratification it said individuals. The right danger is that you lose sight of the big picture, and part of my job is to make sure that we both and the details are being the best humanitarian aid agency and sells the called you what we do and most insightful in terms of drawing the bigger lessons I following the presidential primary. Of course closely. I live here, and I live here and it matters

for whether uses and are not so yet it does so, given what you want and about what it takes to make it to the top in politics who impresses you in this field. It's a hell of a system. You ve got my god. It's a route system, I mean it so it goes on. I am, I am all for being up there. I think Lance politics has got to be about what you're, for as well as what you are and one of the hardest lessons I learn was that if, don't define yourself, you get defined by our opponents and find yourself first and then you can define others. That's the big challenge now don't think it's really right if, having an ngo to stop picking out individual politicians. I have been I to dance around the Adieu thing that the danger of the whole of politics focusing around a particular twitter handle is real,

and in the end there are deep yearnings. I think across this country, for politics that delivers real change and that's meant to be the purpose of progressive politics. Nothing less wow. I understand why the Democrats are fighting with each other. They gonna need to figure out what's the forward agenda economically, socially politically, for this country, which is as

more resources than ever before, but also in some ways more challenges. An unusual initial question upon us. I've been thinking about this issue and that is very successful. Politicians project, a theme of hope, Barack Obama, ran and hope, and also change, is also true that sometimes awaiting a people to get to the polls is not just through inspiration and hope, but also to cause them to understand, appreciate and maybe even fear. The consequences of not going to the poles are the consequences of the status quo, or in this case a second Trump term. Have you think that good politician balances the need for getting people hope and also causing them to have sufficient fear to vote their interests, or sometimes people say hope, beats fear? And I dont really by that? I think that's. The way I would put it is that you ve got to make yourself the repository of hope and you gotta make the other guy or gaol the repository of risk

you ve got to be the the candidate that makes change real, but you ve also got to show that the other side represent a risk to things that you hold dear. That's obviously different in your system than in ours was it's probably over personalized here, but even in the poem the system, personality matters, a law, but the short answer, are you gonna do above. I think the real challenge people of my place on the political spectrum, but also people do politics in the way I do is that we end sounding like problem solvers who a technocratic and I think, as well as being a repository of four and crystallizing why your opponent represents risk. I think there's another do wisdom that one has to really come to terms with, and that is how you combine reason I believe in with passion which is necessary. If you try use reason to beat passion it. Well,

you need reason and passion as well as hope to win, is a piece of advice you got any political or otherwise that you'd like to share with folks. I think that's the best advice for anyone really who wants a leadership position is to be a good listener, as was a good lecture. The best politicians. I thing a really really good at listening and they find the right people to listen to and they don't use that to substitute for their own mind, because the worst thing is to be a polish new defines your own reality. Emigrate we know you're mine, but not define your unreality, but I think listening is an under estimated virtue in politics

and also in the practice of law, are right about that. I'm not letting you have. You have to hear the other person's point of view before you destroy it before you dismantling, and you also have to understand its were the best answers that are biased, questionable out of oaks. If you know, learning. They knew not understanding how it is that that person needs to process information. You can't put yourself another person choose even never persuade them of anything if you're not listening to them, the same, emotive, their communication. I think I'm really learn that when I was diplomacy because of course, the first rule of diplomacy is to put yourself in the position of the person you are negotiating within. You can't do that. You can all able to really listen to them and figure out what is the chief can their armour, is it that there is a lot you'll break down or of their given a hint that Finally, there are responsive to certain form argument or will Flattery? Get you there would you have to play the hard man? I mean those different ways of doing it, so Witherspoon I see so many challenges. You talked about what are the press, you're dealing with now. What are you talking about? Diseases?

a bowler or anything else we abolished, really good example of how the modern geography of poverty and risk is changing, because Democratic Republic of Congo is a country that multiple challenge not just by Miss governance and poverty and corruption and war and climate change, but also public health emergency. We just heard today that Rwanda is closing its border, because Goma, where I was visiting six eight weeks ago, has now had cases is on the ruin, the d or sea border, where Fifty nine health screening centres across Eastern the hour he's. Always you were worried about. Our own staff were also worried about the contagion effect because the striking feature of the crises we do today is the day I'll stay within their own country. They get exported both through people and for the movement of people, most obviously is- do not respect borders. Diseases do not respect. Borders were also got an important job. We have

follow the news, so the ruin the decision is important, but where Syria, on the agenda, I've got form Fifty five hundred staff in the north west in the northeast of Syria, that crisis is going on, When is the world's largest humanitarian catastrophe, twenty four million people in humanitarian need a misbegotten war strategy of which are for the? U S is a supporter which has not brought humanitarian catastrophe but is actually empowered precisely All that the Saudi led coalition says it opposes of uranium is a stronger today than they were for five years. So we have to balance the emergency response with the need to stay in assisting. a little way, and I think that when I say we work across the arc of crisis, it speaks both to the acute emergency and the chronic. And unless the world gets better at dealing with the chronic emergencies, is going to face many more acute emotions. So we have a lot of thought for listeners who care about the world,

and want to get involved? If someone wanted to be involved in these issues or specifically to be of help resistance, the irises is or something that people can do, we'll be great. Live in the? U S, they could actually come and help the one about twenty five offices around the? U S where we to you to help refugees, asylum seekers across the country. They should visit rescue, dot org, which is our website. I hope that, if their employer, whether here or elsewhere, within the Eu S rules where they would be interested in hiring refugees- hope all use their voice, one of the most moving things for me. I gave a talk in San Francisco and afterwards this woman came up to me win floods of tears vietnamese woman and I said why, why are you crying and she said my my parents were vietnamese refugee and they never wanted to talk about their experience. They never wants to talk about their history. That wants to talk about their gratitude to America, and she said I think, because they and others like them refused to talk about what it was to be refugee. We brought the backlash on ourselves, so I hope that if they ve

risky to augur. They can see the facts and then a final thing. Obviously I'm I'm british, so I hate talking about money, but I've lived, Europe for six years, and now I can very openly and avowedly up any of your listeners with deep pockets, we'd love to have them while growing MR private supporters, because with governments in retreat, go gotta, be individuals, foundations and corporations which step up its God's work. Thank no thank you very much the conversation continues for members of the catholic insider community this week David and talk about how the West should deal with China, how accountability built into the parliamentary system, why he misses politics and what hold me to do next time. I'm in London to hear the exclusive tune bonus and exclusive weekly Cathay insider podcast, gotta cafe: dot com, ash inside hey folks, obviously everyone, the country

morning. The loss of life in El Paso and in Dayton, I'm that's what people talking about income, we saw that are currently on vacation and that's what I've been talking about on the show and among my friends and former colleagues too. this week. In the cafe inside a newsletter, I wrote my weekly essay on just these very issues, and I thought this week. I would just read you when I wrote from August seventh, two thousand and nineteen controlled anger, lifeblood of change. Dear reader last week in the space, are reflected onto emotions that have the power to usher in substantial political change, hope and fear there are, to be sure, many powerful emotions. One could so describe since Sunday, however, I've been experiencing one particular visceral feeling anger The breaking news came Saturday afternoon: another mass shooting after last week's carnage at the Gilroy Garlic Festival this time at a busy Walmart in El Paso. Texas, early reports indicate

at least twenty shot in the sister town to Sudan. Whereas in Mexico the shooter drove ten hours, an arsenal in tow to man kicker Mexicans because I sat down in a hateful screen, he believed they invading America and other community shocked, wounded and changed. You watch the story unfold. Hope the early reporting is wrong, brace for the worst Even before the full body count is known news outlets Post, graphics to rank the latest incident in terms of lethality. At this point, the El Paso shooting is the sixth deadliest shooting a new US Well, I heard someone on tv say that every man shooting both the same indifferent. I nodded when he said that. The ark does seem ever similar, the social, political and personal, aftermath of a mass shooting in America has sadly become an exercise in deja vu. You see the predictable statements of career pilot,

since you hear stories of heroism specific to this chaos, but universe. And what they say about certain people's capacity for courage under literal fire. It's all too awful to contemplate, but also utterly familiar. Expressions of condolence seem insufficient calls for change, seem feudal, so you go to bed sadder, a bit more. If it can happen in your community, not very hopeful anyone will do a damn thing about it. The status quo seems fixed. It is worrying, millions of Americans woke up Sunday morning expecting to hear more shows about the El Paso shooting motivations of the shooter tributes to the fallen updates on the wounded. There was that, of course, but there was thing else, terrible news of another mass shooting overnight in Dayton, Ohio, nine people in under a minute. The cables had to go split screen target between the terror in El Paso and terror in Dayton between

to mass on slaying, separated by only thirteen hours in the matter I'm stance, the deja vu not just maddening but grotesque, because now there are two unspeakable tragedies unfolding in parallel and now the same old platitudes, thoughts and prayers. The same confounding calls to inaction, was not the time to talk about politics or legislation. The same nonsensical status quo statements sound downright pathetic, because you turn them yesterday. For me, on Sunday afternoon, in the wake of Tuesday This murder scenes sadness and heartbreak gave way to anger, boiling anger, anger shooters, but also anger at a racist president who ferments hate in white nationalism and then every Billy and unforgiving. We anger at the insufferable craven boobs. We call lawmakers who perennially block all common sense, laws on guns, more than Eighty percent of Americans support universal background checks, yet no action

Ninety five percent of american support a thirty day waiting period for gun sales. Yet no action, Seventy percent of american support requiring privately on guns to be registered with the police, know action. There is else. It added to my anger. It was not just the inexcusable inaction. also the utter cowardice on the part of so many lawmakers, especially Republicans in their radio silence, so many but it's sufficed to post a banal tweets of condolence and commiseration but went missing. The airwaves to defend their policy. Views CNN reported after the Dayton shooting forty nine out of fifty g o p lawmakers declined invitations to discuss. The shootings on air who knew politicians were so coy first responders braved what's to save innocence into American Citys, and yet scores of elected officials fled the public square in the aftermath, if you believe in I quote, say so and defended. If you believe in change than fight for it. If you can't do either then step aside

and leave your office to someone with integrity. It's pretty simple. I am angry, so many of you, anger, isn't reason anger. an analysis. Anger is in evidence, anger, isn't a policy paper Will reform or solution raw anger can cloud and distort more than eliminate. So one needs to be careful, but controlled anger can be the lifeblood of change. At least I hope so So don't let your anger fade. Don't let this moment pass representative know how you feel the special but you're Senator no call March vote. Give that's it for this episode of stay too thanks again to my guest David Mill,

stay tuned is presented. Take effect. The executive producers is tomorrow, suffers the senior producer, his errand dog and cat. They team Carlos hearing Julia Doyle, Calvin Lord, when a vastly and justifies our music is by Andrew Dost, I'm prepared statement.