From CAFE, and the Vocs media pack has network welcome to stay tuned, I'm prepared. I think it might also be that you fall in love with this form of storytelling that you fall in love with the idea of showing people instead of explaining its people, you think of George Life murder. How can you tell story without showing the video rate is that not all we're gonna talk about twenty years from now That's Humane Elsinore, she's, the White House Correspondent for PBS News. Our and recently became the host of PBS is Washington. look affair, show close closely shaded with its long time, moderator late when Eiffel emissions reporting since high school the internet a local newspaper before she got to PBS? She was rapporteur at the New York Times beyond her role as an anchor she gained national tension as a frequent target of former President Trump last.

We give me she arrived home after accompanying President Biden to Europe. In his first international trip to meet with foreign leaders, including russian President, Vladimir Putin. emission. I talk about vines diplomacy, the differences between print and broadcast journalism How she stays come in moments of high stress. That's coming up! Stay too. Support for this podcast comes from Verizon Business, Verizon Business, unlimited plants, unlimited data, no overages and more built right for business, with the speed of rising five g, give rise in business. Unlimited plans from his lows: thirty dollars per line, visit, Verizon Dotcom, slash this slash plants per month with five.

on business. Unlimited start includes paper free billing without open, select, smartphone agreement, discounts, taxes fees in terms apply five g nationwide available in twenty seven hundred plus cities on most Verizon, five g devices find shelter white band available only in parts of select cities high. I remember you, I'm a programme manager, Google right now lots of people looking for ways to learn new job skills. That's where we created Google careers certificates. Online training programme for fast growing fields, like I t support project men men data, analytics user experience, design and more, you don't need any prior experience and you can be Jobbery in about six months. So put your skills to work. Go to grow, dark, Google, slash certificates, before I get your questions. Just a reminder. This week's episode of now and then our new podcast, hosted by Heather Cox, Richardson enjoying Friedman, is out. The topic this week is Cults and Cuba, since

I've for free and listen and Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Now, let's get to your questions, this question comes in an email from Jennifer who has actually two questions. Derek Jovan sensing is Friday. How many years do you think you will get and also Children's lawyers argued that their client is the quote product of a broken system. End quote: do you think that argument will sway the judge at all? So, thanks to your questions, of course, referring to the long awaited sentencing, a former police officer, Derek chauvinism, Minneapolis, who was convicted on three counts, related to his killing of George Floyd, so prediction is always difficult. It's very individualised decision. Judges are sometimes people who surprise folks when they sense, although in this case I think it is fair to say that a fairly significant sense will be opposed under Chauvelin, given the nature of it.

Given the nature of the evidence we saw in the case, given how much the judge knows about the conduct of direct Chauvelin and given the relatively quick verdict of guilty on all counts. Now the prosecutors have asked for a thirty year sentence, which is in the circumstances, arguably fair and appropriate. On the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum, the defence lawyer has argued somewhat, not credibly for time, served and recall the direct chauvinist been in custody since he was remanded at the moment of his conviction a couple of months ago? Are they can safely predict that there's no way on earth that he's gonna get time served that doesn't seem commensurate with the conduct and with the rest, nation of the Judge indication K Hill. The other reason we know it'll be a somewhat significant sentence is that the judge has already made a finding that there were four aggravating factors that militate in favour of a heavier sentence. What were those aggravating?

three hundred Minnesota long. One and you'll remember this from the testimony in the evidence, if you watch any of the trial, one, the defendant, abused, position of trust and authority embassy was a police officer and a senior police officer at that to the defended treated George Floyd with particular cruelty, or you have to do- is watch the video tapes to see that Three children were present during the commission of the offence that was proven easily at the trial and shown and for defending committed the crime as a group with the active participation of at least three other persons, namely the three other police officers who are still awaiting trial with respect to their own charges.

A combination of the nature of the conduct degree, business of it, the finding of the aggravating factors and the request for the prosecutors? I think signals in my view, and I could be wrong. There were looking at a sentence in the twenty three, your rage ass. Your second question: the argument that there are chosen is the product of a broken system. I think falls flat and that's an understatement, as I think most people who have followed the issue and followed the trial and follow the consequences and the uproar over the killing of George Floyd and the movement in favour of criminal justice reform. They can all a test The dirt chauvelin does not appear to be a product of a broken system. He is what is broken about. The system is the embodiment of it and its choice. Fancied I discussed on the cafe insider this week. It is an interesting strategy to take the most extreme view on behalf of your client, to try to save him jail time.

when every single indication is that he will get a substantial sense, but the defence lawyer, on behalf of Derek Chauvelin, might have had more credibility if he has suggested some jail sentence is appropriate. Our time served that either the combination of no seeming remorse, maybe he'll make a statement in which he does express remorse battle. So the combination of direct over not expressing remorse, not expressing or seeming to express any contrition, his lawyer asking for time served and painting Derek Chauvelin as some kind of victim in the whole regime of policing in this country and when he calls a broken system island, gonna fly. One final thing: you should know that whatever sentence Jovan gets under Minnesota LAW is presumed that a defendant with good behaviour will serve two thirds of the penalty in prison and the rest will be on both. this question comes at an email from Emily. Who asks? Can you explained

Jays reversal of Trump era, asylum rules, but will the impact of that decision be of course, there's been a debate over the last couple of months about working the policies, the current justice Department under the leadership America, Ireland is persisting in and what kinds of policies there retracting or changing or reversing. There's some controversy about some of those things, including whether not secret memo should be shared with the public and whether not Donald Trump should continue to be defended by the Justice Department in a private suit. But on one issue that you ask about Emily, there has been a change of heart and I think it is for good and I think it's a good change of heart. It has long been the case under asylum rules. Some one who seeks to be refugee in the United States can present themselves if certain circumstances and conditions are met, their application for refugee status and asylum can be considered and granted, The basis on which someone can become an assembly is if they can assert

a well founded fear of persecution back in their native country, a well founded fear of persecution on account of their race, religion, nationality, political opinion. Or membership in a particular social group. Now in previous administrations that last category membership in a particular social group, has always been interpreted to mean that you could get protection is an asylum potentially, if you have a well founded fear that you will face domestic abuse, domestic violence or gang violence under Jeff sessions Trump Administration, he felt that those asylum claims and at last category particular social group or ensure, did overly broadly. Then it was giving too much benefit to too many people, and domestic violence in gang violence work a kind of in his words private violence that should qualify you to become an asylum, and so what, in the last week, is the attorney General Merrick Garland vacated the prior to internal decisions in a couple of matters? The now make it clear that the what an immigration appeals within the Justice Department should no law

follow those decisions and should stead revert to prior president, under which victims of gang violence and domestic violence can properly presented case for asylum status. In the. U S, and I think that a good thing. This question comes at an email from Amy. What do of the news? The prosecutors in the Manhattan DA's office are investigating a Trump Organization executive named Matthew. Calamari. Do you think they're leaning on him to flip on Trump lots of jokes make it with a name but I'll refrain. Thanks, pre Yes, I've seen some of those jokes and social media than every good. You know we'll call tomorrow be fried, etc, etc, but I think its entry we ve, been talking about various other folks, come in handy S. Office has been investigating and perhaps putting to the grand jury and perhaps even further building a case against we. The CFO we know about the controller.

We have someone Matthew, Calamari, who started out as trumps bodyguard and then eventually was promoted to be the c o o when the chief operating officer a Trump organization, so a couple of things that are interesting about this pattern of investigative practice. These are all senior people in the trunk organisation. They cannot be expected to have. Lots of inside knowledge about the finances and about the organizational structure in about who did what for what reason They probably also have access to information and communications that maybe one, put in writing that indicators, native Minded, Donald Trump and other people in connection with financial transactions and tax payments that they made or make another thing they have in common is their long time. Members of the trouble organization which, on the one hand, as I just said, means they access to a lot of information. It might be helpful to prosecutors, but, on the other hand, maybe render them more loyal to Trump. Then too.

their own desire not to be in prison for a long period of time in people keep asking the question: is you have? Do you think that certain such personal flip? It's a personal decision? It depends on how strong the it is against them depends on what their loyalty tells him to do. Many many many people flip some, don't I think what has become more clear, is that the main Andy's office is still a step away from being able to charge someone in a high position. My Donald Trump that's. Why they're looking very very hard at figuring out what kind of criminal cases? can make against these other executives very senior, but not at the very top to convince them. Persuade them compel them to sign a cooperation agreement and give substantial assistance in the prosecution of someone else. Up to and including I'll drop, was interesting about the reporting related to Weissenburg the CFO and this yellow Matthew Calamari. It looks like the things that they are going after them, for our failure to pay,

taxes and certain kinds of fringe benefits, policing of apartments and leasing of automobiles and some other such things depending on the circumstances depending on the rules, would be income on which one has to pay taxes they do now, tend to be, in my experience, the thrust of a criminal investigation, in other words the core of a broad criminal investigation. It looks like they're trying to find things that will subject to these individuals to a criminal charge in a significant criminal sentence, so that those so those charges don't seem corridor what their otherwise looking at, which is the way that the Trump Organization handled tax payments and made representations to financial institutions to get loans, and, as I mentioned, we first discussed on Weissenburg on the show, It does seem a lot to me that the reporting suggests but the criminality that are looking with respect to Weissenburg and also calamari. I seem to have to do with the central. If they're, looking out with his back to the Trump Organization, you general payment of taxes, tax avoidance

and representations made to financial institutions for the purpose of getting loans and representations, in particular about the value of assets, either inflating them or deflating them when it suits them. These seem to be tangential too, that collateral to that for the purpose of flipping them, and you kind of expect- and maybe this maybe this is true. They just don't have report. On it, you kind of expected the people, the top of the organization, would also be in the crosshairs with respect to what the fundamental investigation is about and that they might be co conspirators with Donald Trump and others. But right now it doesn't work that way stay tuned, there's more coming up after this. If you were from home like I do that,

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and we wanted to have you come some time ago from glad you're. Finally, here in the interim, you have become the host of Washington weak. Congratulations! Thank you so much, I'm so excited about the shell and feel so so blast an honour to be I mean the chair at Washington. Weak. Are you nervous or you excited? Are you pump? What's the best word to describe how you feel about that I'm nervous and excited and actually also really feeling blast? This was a sea that was home I am personal mentor of mine when I thought- and I know how much the shell meant to her so to have the exact see as as someone idolized is sort of me blowing I'm also nervous because there's such expectations- and I I'm someone who really thinks about I'm very deeply. What I want to show to reflect in fear- and I wanted to be relevant and to feel fresh and to feel like its in its following in the great legacy of the show, while also being

something that is is mine and it is and is good and as it is the kind of TB that people want to sit down on a Friday to watch so I'm a little nervous but definitely deafening excited to measure when Eiffel, who was a giant, and I remember, being in the border airport, when I heard that she had passed the far too early? What does she mean to you she met representation. She met someone who looked like me, living in this amazing truth, and living her dreams. She was holding people accountable. She was intact pity she was someone who fearless and brave and someone who also, who personally helped other people behind her would not be here if I wasn't, if it wasn't for women like when I for who not just showed way but also took the time to give me a hand up when I

Did it to tell me that I was worthy that I earned everything that I've dine, those in a kind of people that instil confidence in the next generation that are, the reason why I think we will see another generation of amazing journalists and, in particular amazing black women journalists coming up. Will you do you think differently or consciously differently? I think for me up. I will think about how politics pact, people's daily lives, and really that means having the conversation talk about not just, I think, the power brokers in Washington, but also bringing in what's going on in the states bringing in video of of the voices of every day people working class people, immigrants vulnerable populations into the show. So I think I am how they get a lean a little bit into a little bit more into video and really trying to make it. Of course, the story about Washington, but also as a story about how Washington is impacting people's lives. I think that might feel a little different for people

I must really excited to it in some ways to to really follow in Queens footsteps when it comes to doing specials one now her only let Washington we'd be about thirty minutes around the table. She had town halls, he went on the road. She met people, those things around, to do in her mouth, but also do differently and go different places. Are cheating go in and meet people that maybe he didn't. She didn't get me Jimmy specials in the works? Not right. Now that I can talk about, but I think we have a lot of ideas which just you and me, it's just Can you say the general subject matter of the special I mean what you say is its politics. Is people's lives? Is it about aliens? You me ok, so I'm really.

We need to do a? U S, file extra united around you, you haven't got around to it as a kid who grew up watching unsolved mystery than set of cartoons like that was my favorite chat with unsolved mysteries. I am really really fighting that urged to do a whole, you efta special? Why would you fight that emerge? can do is right now. I think, because there are so many other things that need to be covered too. I know but like I feel like the U opposing has been under covered. I'm here would like some men and you yeah, but we need a PBS attention to this right so you used to be the New York Times at as a print journalist, and so I have a number of questions about that: much harder print journalism or broadcaster journalism, its

I dont- think that I can definitively say what's harder over all I can say what was harder for me will be harder for me was broadcast because I'm a national writer I've been a writer since I remember being able to spend my name. I've always loved. Writing! It's it's my personal therapy. It's my it's! How I get my feelings out! It's how I just talked to the world. Naturally with it writing- and I had been a writer for so long that when I got the New York Times and of course I was intimidated by idea of the New York Times still led into the idea that I knew how to write and that that was a scale that would carry me I was able to do that and to feel comfortable in that new into have great editors who helped movie. Into an even better writer for broadcast. It was completely something that I didn't I think I was ever gonna get into and learning how to to really talk to people how to make you sometimes full down. My speech Howdah had a figure how to condense, something that I was spent fourteen hundred words on in time half, but also

images tell a story so that the words are so particular learned so precise. That was very, very hard for me: ring and I've. Never. I never thought I was gonna, be an anchor. I didn't set out to be an anchor so now that I'm During my show, I remember at the beginning of the show it's only I've only been in the chair for about a month and a half now, but I remember being very nervous about reading a teleprompter thinking that people worry we're going to aid in other areas too. I know that I that I didn't know how to read promptly when, in fact, for me the biggest and has been moulding the shell making sure that it that were hitting the right segments that we have the right sound that that script tight now, even the way that I'm reading and on the telephone, but that the way that its written is that it should be written in our gas reflect what we want people to be thinking about that, weak, and and also that we can. Go and lean into adored, Floyd, special and say: ok, there's gonna be other news happening, but I wanted this week only based on this one issue, which we did, what the anniversary of George Foist murder, citing brow

Casper me has been tougher four August for the teleprompter issues. Did you prep in any way, did you watch Ackerman several times? I did it, but I was a boy I am lucky that I am able to see acres do their jobs all the time between news, our air MSNBC in and growing up, watching local news that I know what a really really good Ankara Look fight, and I also know that I dont want to be anyone but myself. So I also think that I'm taking skills that I've watched. Other anchors do, while also making sure that I'm I'm completely who you would meet in the grocery store. You when I was thinking about his interview, intertwined mission from printer broadcasts, I think to myself. I can name off the top of my head- a number of people, including friends of mine, who went from print to broadcast. I can't think of really anybody, and maybe I'm just blinking who went from broadcast to print. Can you and if not, what do you think the that transition seems

the one way only. I can't think of any one who went from broadcast to print. people have seen the big lights. They they can't go back, that's it. I think it might also be that you fall in love with this form of storytelling that you fall in love with the idea of showing people instead of explaining it to people you think of George Floyd's murder, you could write them so many stories that wash imposed run one a pulp ward. Some of my friends are that project Hulu and Robert Samuel did amazing work writing about George for life, but how can you tell that story without? showing the video rate. Is that not all we're going to talk about twenty years from now? It's it's that its watching the trial, its watching Omar from scene and get arrested right. It's it's! It's me My interviews that I was able to do with his family as they were able to explore. In what he meant to me. Those things that keep people in broadcast, because it's it's

it's the way that we will remember history talk about an tree or expecting these quest some of your interactions with the present who was previously in that Office Donald Trump and he had a contentious relationship with the press, but we'll get up. by Naso my son unusual for presents to have where any politician to have a somewhat contentious relationship police from time to time with the press. But I think you know really ask about. There was this occasion during a corona virus briefing the present from was giving back last year and in March thirtieth of twenty twenty. When you asked a reasonable question, you said repeatedly that you think that some of the equipment that governors are requesting, they don't actually need. He said Newark. My knee

Might I need thirty thousand you set it on. I John here on this box deal you said ongoing. Aren't you central lobbyists and you said: let us act. Why don't you act in a little more positive has always tried to make much it into your head. You get you and you know what that's why nobody trusts the media anymore. My fine how's! That can you hear me, that's why you used to work for the times and now you work for somebody else. Look, let me tell you something be nice. Don't answer. Has the right question threatening their one that's going on and the whole world is watching. What's going through your head? That's going through my head is that there is probably someone at a hospital right now who might need a ventilator whose really worry that they will have one and that that person needs an answer,

Are you thinking? This is becoming a thing between me and the present, as opposed to about the factual issue that your delving into I'm thinking about people who are dying. I'm thinking about the idea that our country was terrified that I had family members in Miami who were older were diabetic, who were scared for their lives, and I was thinking. I hope that this president really has an answer for a country who does not have time for the drama in the back and forth. I'm hoping that he really really really is going. Tell us. Yes, we have enough ventilators when he said don't be threatening. Were you taken aback whether I wasn't taken aback? I'm an african american woman who Britain's media for a long time, I've been told So, let me ask you this question: at that time: did you have the nuclear codes or an army at your back? had no nuclear call. This had no

an army of haitian praying mothers well Movement, that's an order they weren't but present at the White House at that moment where they now the presidency I had it did you did you have good service, detail, arms? You could service detail now he did. I did not but you're the threatening one his. it's kind of amazing to me He then says we're all same team were all the same. To me says it twice. You know it's interesting question is an accurate. Do you think, as a journalist, the urine, the same team is the president because we're all Americans and we all care about getting over the corona virus, or do you think of yourself in a different way? sure that I can answer that question only because I don't know what the meaning of team is and in the way that he was using it, of course, while Americans, of course, I'm having just come back from an eight day trip with president bided.

There was this, obviously the sense that America outside of the United States, that we're Americans that We want our country to be safe to be protected to be healthy, but I think when you think about the way that the president was misleading the american population and not wanting to answer basic questions about testing and ventilators, I don't know what that means to be on the same team, I can say that I was. I was on the team of truth and of trying to get real answers were people who were again terrified, because I think you know I. I know that there is still so much kind of coverage of the back and forth them and in the kind of the inner personal relationships between the president and the press and other people that he was attacking but think at the end of the day, I think of journals, muzzle service and I think of how scared twenty twenty wise right. Having lost people that I loved, I literally with thinking the reason I got into journalism is because we need people who are going to press presidents for actual answers about people's lives

and when you do you asking the question what was taken aback when he called me threatening, I said- and I say no- and I think I say no four reed's one, because again I was really thinking at those people but to an african american woman who has been in media now for a long time. I've been holdings about myself that I know not to be true. I've been have had supervisors Not believe in me not think I had with tape what it takes to be an girl or should be it to be a writer or to work at the New York Times. I've had people take it may not smiling as meaning that I'm angry as in Africa mere. Can you just learn to not be caught up in what way think about you and table, and you know what you yourself are to do in the mission for your life and you, go and do that and not get worried about what people think about you, because if you get bogged down in that they'll be bogged down in stereotypes are all your life. When that happens, when supervisor say the things that they say they make clear

believe in you is estimated motivate you were at times. Is that you back or a combination of the two? I think. It's both. I think it's motivating and its sometimes heartbreaking. I remember when I was yeah a younger journalists. Calling my mentor in tears, saying this person said I couldn't I'm not that I don't have what it to be a great journalists. Are this person said I'm not pre enough to be on on tv and Luckily, for me, I have a mom, who is the strongest person that I now she's she's a social worker for three decades, three and a half decades came to his country as a haitian immigrant Anne and worked her way to getting a phd as much as, as did my father, I'm coming from Haiti so. For me, I realized that I'm coming from from a line of people who people didn't believe in and that I am not the first person. I won't be the last person to encounter people who, just simply, don't think that you have what it takes two to be good in order that you haven't earned what what what is rightfully yours but ivory, how's. Is that

both motivating, and I think, at times of your humanity. It's a little sad. You weren't any names of crystal is this you and me, that's a no. Have you heard from any those people, since your overwhelming success anybody said. Who I was wrong. As anybody said, I'm sure I say what I said or did what I did or have you reached out to any them sounds wondering how, in the years since some of those incidents happened, that you mention with some pain, if you ve had any back and forth, No, I haven't reach out than they ever reach out to me, I'm lucky then I have people the people that you reach out to me with the people who have motivated me in and supported me, and I tell you Journalists Alla time could I know I've now had the council, young women and men who have been told themselves. Are you don't have expired, answer whatever it is that on this checklist that someone thinks it you don't have? I now find myself right,

the advice that Gwen in and that a failure night was a really good friend of hers. In so many other women gave me, which is don't be distracted, dont be caught up in whatever the whether people think about you. You have a mission, you have a goal and you have people who believe in you. So I dont reach out to those people. I just now that I pay it forward by equipping the next generation, with with some of the advice that I got in. What's the best advice you give them the best I give them is, I think, there's two things, one of your nerves, it's a good thing. It means that you care about this. It means that you understand the weight of the responsible, we especially as a journalist, so it's ok to be at the New York Times the wash imposed wherever you end up and be nervous, that needs room because it will motivate you did not get things wrong to be accurate, to be fair to be carried,

and then I also tell people don't get caught up in whatever is going on around you dump this matter. What people think about you? What matters is the work that you are doing, and that will be the thing that shines through. So when you go back to another incident with president rum and just talk generally about what the relationship should be between the press and a president whether to Democrat or republican- and this was back in November, twenty routine after the mid term elections. And U S down from on the campaign You call yourself a nationalist. Some people saw there as in boldly white nationalists. Now people are living and why you didn't write such herbaceous. There's some people that say that now the Republican Party is seen as supporting why Actually I leave your rhetoric. What do you make of that? I don't believe what are you thinking, man? I was thinking while he really just said that If I was thinking I once again for the first time that, like we had an interaction that I would like way. Why?

so that was the thousand over two thousand eighteen. I remember that and your expression, you must be really good at poker. Are you very good, a poker? I don't play poker You should play used to that. You should do when we're done with a show. You should play poker any should set up a special on the ok, so so here think What did he say and how are you processing what he said I was pressed. think about thinking. Peace deflecting Mccoy, shame because of the journalists, your taught, listen, really intently and too to make sure that your answers, actually your questions actually being answered so we're thinking? Ok, while he really just said that he called it raises and he's not answering me and that's what does that's an issue because indeed our yes or no? Are you trying to emboldened white nationalist white supremacist? We need to know- and I think you know vast board pass January

them and all that in the end, the conversation that our nation is happening isn't that one of the defining questions of the term presidency. Now, where are you, really trying to embolden these racists, crazy people who then broke into our capital or were able, or was this kind of unintentional when you were just kind of saying this out of political expediency. So I think that that underlying question about the role of white supremacy in his administration, from a journalist their point of view, I know there are people work critical of the present? Of course you would say, of course, he's racist. Of course he was trying to That's, not the stance that I would take because I'm a journalist, but I think that that's the question that I would say You look at four years of of down trump. That is the question. Does it occurred you ever in those moments either with us. president or one of the other public officials you ve interviewed over the years when they make an accusation like that, you accuse you being threatening when you're not

of asking races question when it's not do you ever think yourself in this moment, I should defend myself and respond and robot. I doubt because I'm really thinking of it is it's not about me. Journalism is supposed to be it's not about you. Ve heard about that big thing. Your time is you don't maybe the story so at last I'm trying to do is get into a back and forth with the press, the United States, a personal back and forth, should try to defend myself. I was in an after math. I was a little surprised that he knew that I had worked for the New York Times and the rights which jobs, because you don't think that the President, the United States knows you're resonate per se right, but the day. I do in the moment. I'm not thinking. Oh yeah, really defend my honor, I'm thinking he's not answering. The question is: is the leader of the court uncalled for we're all the way that we often described the president s the leader of the United States and a lot of time especially last then twenty twenty we're in the middle

a literal pandemic. I need you to give us some answers like real that kind of veto just for fun. We talk about this, this journalistic principle of not becoming the story, and I know you take that to heart, because I went back and I looked and I direct message do a couple days after that incident with Trump in March twenty. I I think I thy DM do. As I say,. On April, second, ask you to come on the pot cast an you very politely said that you would be able to do that. and then in preparing for the enemy I realize you do get into any press after the Washington Post asked for you in a spokesman for PBS News, our said that you were not available and they made a statement on your behalf, but how, as has emerged as a highly professional, talented reporter, we cannot be more proud to have as part of the previous news, our she's doing exactly what is expected of a free press in our democracy, and that was

the attempt to make it about yourself and yet you became a big story in part because you are so unflappable in handled it with such grace and poised that's oppression, it didn't. I guess it surprising, because I, Think as rapporteur especially wanted some someone who gets an oppressed people dont know it. You even look like people, with a name I jammies offender people could even say my name for the first time. Ten. He occurs. I merely railing. I know the feeling so for me to vote for me to go from that. Then there's an old gimme, a one word and say her last name. Everyone knows I'm talking about. I think that's heartening. I also think it's heartening that people were comparing need. All the great journalist that I grew up, idolizing. I think that that to me in some ways reminded me that I was doing my life's passion and I was exactly where it needs to be opened, my purpose, which I think I think about it. Why I'm someone who's, I should say very obsessed with opera and of her advice and I

he really intentional. So I'm sorry that I've been going your pack ass when you ask city but for me it was really like. Let me just put my head down and do this work because and I'm grounded, I have to tell you by talking to my family everyday, who Well, I guess, of course, like it's amazing that you're that you're being called out for this and that you're doing this and then at the same time I'm talking about how are they paying their rent and such and such as in the house and we're not gonna note this person's gonna make it and their worry. They don't have enough ventilators. Those are the things that, so. I guess you can take a kind of victory lap and say this is great that I am getting ready. Mission for doing my job with integrity. But then your so grabbing the idea that so many Americans don't even have time to take victory lapse, because people were just trying to survive

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They'll trump has a particular problem with women, journalists and even more specifically, with black women journalists. It's hard for me to answer a question. I know some people will say yes because of the other. I would say that without one week where he attacked me and then he attacked April, why wasn't even standing in front of him and then he attacked Abbe fill up with a good friend of mine. fine, but I also think that I watched him attack men in some really really vicious ways. I think about Jonathan Carl Peter, Alexander, so I'm not sure I'm the pope the best person to answer that question. I definitely think I know that some people think he has a particular biting sense with with women of color, I think, having watched him, I also think that he ready to attack anyone, and especially, I would say, people who he feels like are- are checking him are really exposing ability to tell the truth at times, and I think about the fact that I think about this,

Starlight CBS and the energy that she did where he got them two way than anything about about what TAT meant that he would walk out on a woman journal I don't remember him- walk Jani men. I could be wrong, but I think that that is We know into something their brain in some ways as a journalist and some as I remember I- would serve the idea to know they're not what's going on in president in former president trumps head is specifically focused on women and women of color, whether its its focus on anyone whose exposing the fact that he's not a time telling the truth, when someone cut you off on the highway. Do maintain your com, then too, the mermaids just the way you are or you work hard at it at the journalism job. I didn't work the journalists and job? But I also, I me and now Mary for three years, at any rate, a railroad, his men.

We also realise that you have to realise that you're living with that you're, a flawed human being in that you're living with a five, even mean that you signed a contract to say we're. Gonna live together for the rest of our lives. I think that the sense of calm that I feel has to be a sort of in other parts of my life, and I also think that, frankly, if we even zoom out is so either black people have survived right like I didn't, learn to be calm, just because I think for me personally, maybe other people weren't african American, have there. Other experiences, I think, are the way that the way that they forgot to be calm, but as an african American, your talk to be calm, because if life or death, my brother, my husband, six feet black man, they have to caught me think of Omar, getting arrested on CNN and calmly, explaining I'm on live television, I'm a reporter, I'm sorry, ok, you know why I'm under arrest her quiet. Why am I under arrest? You see the interact

and realized tat black people were taken. I think people of color. I know my friends who are pakistani and who are our middle eastern. They also a very sensitive com at the airport and when there are possibly being harassed and possibly being targeted, remember after nine eleven might might with some of my dear friends. They had to be very calm because it will that are or or something much much worse. So I think my level com has been gases because of being a journalist, but I think a lot of his off a life experience. As you know, the makes total sense. So you just came back from a trip with present Biden. His first overseas trip is present. Can heat is describe like how it works with the journals M group accompanying?

sitting President on such a momentous trip like that, you sleep at all, do you stay in the same hotels? The president? Had you fly there? Did you have a schedule in advance as key? Could you paint a picture of what that trip is like yeah? So there are really two gives a journalist there's the journalists who are part of the protective pool, which is this group of journalists and stay with the president all times I suffer when he's literally ETA at the White House, sleeping that protective poor flies on air force. One they go to whenever meetings he's going to either he's there in the meeting are there in the holding in. From somewhere very close by? They are, with the president all times, they're not, usually serbian and say motel for minors, animals, sometimes the present sleeping somewhere else, but their dear by an indifferent hotel and then I was part of a kind of extended pool of reporters who were flying on oppress charter of the oyster organised by the White House. But that's a separate plain. We were on that plane. You dont, get much sleep because they're all sorts of

purity sweeps you don't get the really see the cities that much we were in the EU, hey for awhile sobs. They would walk around and get good indian food at one point: the movie, where your girlfriend info guy we're in Cornwall. I forgot what maybe the restaurants, but I was wandering around doing indian food on my on my phone because I couldn't get beans or meet with pastries, not one more time. The three radically did looking for her any food, and I found it, thank God and then in Brussels, I basically didn't see Brussels at all, because we were in there It was NATO we so quick. We hardly up again, but you were staying in a hotel room. You wake up really early. You have the president's schedule of what he's going to say, you're, watching all of his interactions for the summit in Switzerland. I really did seas, So I am because I was up. I basely slept probably three hours that entire trip between

you're on EAST Coast time, so I was doing hits at one or two o clock in the morning in sweats time and then getting up at like three or four or whether they were doing hit that, like one o clock in the morning and waking up. Like four or five in the morning to Sudan. start the day on which time and got to heading two, the summit. So I made it it's a kind of growing schedule, usually at that after these new see at least some Unless I know I did it when I was when I went to Europe with President Trump, you would then take a week to go to Paris and and kind of Joy Europe, the corona virus, another regulation- they couldn't do that this time around, but that's kind of the governance of my back it, but at the end of the day it also, of course you did this, incredible honour right, like I saw President Putin in President violent in person about ten feet away from me right, you're witnessing this incredible history. So I think it's also this in this kind of out about the experience. What you're saying I quite I'm really here I mean but think about Rachel Scott, who is just be so amazing. That's ABC News reporter young Black,

the man she was able to take to question someone who President Biden has called a dictator who was, it was jail, opposition leader to say the lists of your political opponents, who are dead, prisoned or jailed, is long relaxing of honouring its organisation, calls for free and fair elections and end to corruption, but Russia has outlawed that organization, calling it extremists and you have not prevented anyone who supports him to run for office. So my question is, Mr President: what are you so afraid of? I mean those who those are just in terribly historic moments that that will think about further for the rest of our lives and I think about Rachel. Our tankers he's a younger part of such a smart and amazing reporter and she's able she was able to kind of really right her way into history, but sober

captains of the meeting. Further do what you do said. The various meetings you said before the trip quote. President Biden for his first overseas trip is commander in chief, is really coming to a group of european leaders who are familiar with him. Experts tell me this is going to be a sort of love fest. But it's also get to feel like a family reunion and if anyone's ever been to a family reunion. That means there will be love, but there will also be drama. Did that bear out, There is obviously this real relief among european leaders. I'd only covered NATO and G Seven's when President one from our present tromp was in office, I'd never covered any other ones. So they were these kind of really hectic things people were fighting and people are getting elbowed and it would suit. It was this people in other journalists. But tell me this is not normal and I'd be like what is going on there and I were noble anyone's walk. Did you witnessed by an elbow any real, almost bumped people as agreed?

as a greeting, but he did not elbow anyone out of the way I see it There was this real love fast and there was this familiarity There is also this sense that, yes, there are real about how to move forward on climate change and how to move forward with how to treat China that this is the first time we saw China. Called out in the g7 communicate with their still requesting about how much she engage in it and it with five g, and why way, and whether or not President Biden can convince them of the other european leaders to see China in the way that he does, which is really as an adversary and as a country that needs to be called out regularly about its human rights nations, citing there was a little less than a tiny bit of drama that anything like one from a present trump was there was a palpable too journalists and other bystanders that the mood in the tone in the european meetings was more jovial. I mean how how clear was it? It was pretty clear. I mean preservation of course said America's back

over and over again- and I remember the french President Mayo, my call he said yeah we're so happy to have America them back in the full base leave. Wasn't it lowers his exact words with it? He had this kind of he'll smile on his face in their meeting by the Beazley they were so happy Merkel. She wants to talk. If you wanted to talk about Afghanistan, it kind of other things that were going on in terms of of defence, but she also looked. someone who was like ok, I can deal with this american president so that the tone chain was absolutely palpable Sinclair. Yogi afterward, I assure you

Do you think you think the Joe Biden and his team fell like the accomplished, whatever goals they set out to accomplish on this trip? Yes, I can say that with confidence, because I've talked to a number of White House officials after the trap and they feel really good about the way that it when they feel really good about the way that President Biden was able to to really get in their meat with european leaders get some of his personal and she's a personal and meaning his personal calls for the country into documents like the G7 communicate that mention China, that mention Russia, that mention forced labour, which was something that that the United States, in particular, with pushing for to call out I'm China and its use of forced labour,

so they feel really good about it, and they also very good about the about that. The summit they like did they earn their very confident that there should have been to separate press conferences. Are that the american press could get their questions divided and that President Putin was able to get pushed in. That way by so many people, including, of course after just keeps aunt, Rachel Scott, because you just so amazing, so I think that that they feel really good about the way that the meeting one and though either that trip when and in particular the meeting with Putin did you have a view as to whether I as a journalist, would you have had a preference for a joint press conference with Biden. Putin does not matter. Is it something that is up to the individual politicians? And so who cares? It's a great question? I have obviously had it really thought about it. I mean, I think, that the point of it all is that they they get to that that were journalists get their questions in and that we get to push and press politicians and leaders, and I think that with that ways the gold

it was accomplished. So I guess maybe would have also been accomplished and joint press governs, but does Rachel Scott get it to push back and have a follow up and be one of the few american journalist embedded if Putin is in there. with president right now, so that moment doesn't happens. I think that that's really powerful. I think it's great that I was able to get three questions into the president

an end to get him to really, and I think that we also got the president from upper for that as President Biden responding directly to President Putin. So I think that that was still accomplished. It was really important to me to to get a question about whether or not President Biden, I'm felt it was appropriate for President Putin to be comparing the human rights violations in Russia too, generous Saxon, invoking the name of the black of black eyes matter. Mr President, on President Putin was question today about human rights. He said the reason why these cracking down on opposition leaders is because he doesn't want something like January. Six to happen and rush any also said it doesn't want to see group scorned like black lives matter. What's your response to that police, so I think that the goal

were accomplished with us, but ask about what did you think? Opponents comparisons to January six than black lives matter some journalists? So I dont really give my opinion. You don't have a Paypal, you have a view, but you think it's appropriate to give it. I don't get the role of journalists yeah, I get it Did you have a sense of how Putin and his people thought the meeting went with a disappointed, or did they get some limited amount of success on their terms. Also so I'll say I have it talk to anyone inputs administration, but I will say just in watching what you saw from prison Putin is what he has always done, which is. He has always kind of done this. What about as when pushed on human rights and push on of the fate of electing a volley so itself and in the fact that he can't kept on going and coming in questions. It seemed ass, though he had some real objectives that were met, and I I can

tell whether or not they thought it was a good idea to put him in front of a bunch of Amerika journalists. Who would ask some questions like what are you so afraid of right? Now? I don't know what that is, it would be great to get some informing on that front, especially from some international journalists, because I really really interested to see. What do they think about the fact that Rachel that that question? It is what does I mean for him because I think in some ways it could be seen as a beer thing for him, but I think maybe in some ways it could be seen as as the press you now being disrespectful. I'm not sure how is playing out in his administration in Helsinki correct. I was in the room the room where it happens. Yeah, and you know that Helsinki trip when, President Trump, among other things, appeared to take the word of Putin over his own intelligence agencies, and there was a weird back and forth about in a crumble eating food and didn't have anything to do with the

interference, people came to me. Then coats came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin he'd. You said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be. What was the compare Helsinki to Geneva this in terms of feel of the room? I mean it was completely different. I think former President Trump and President Putin's press conference in two thousand eighteen was shocking, but to the system I remember gas being at because you would never really heard an american president tat. We take the word over of of of someone who is a human rights violators all intents and purposes has it seems, killed number a number of his political opponents and literally try to attack the? U S, elections you ve, never seen

for you, president, at least in my lifetime, to take the word of that person. Over. U S intelligence agencies, and not just one like multiple was seventeen USA. Intelligence agencies my seventeen, so I do think it was. It was really really shocking and I remember talking a immigration officials act in fact than they were cringing they could. They were trying to come up with ways to kind of defend the president, but the day you could tell it they haven't even got there talking points together, and it was just so shocking, so that was completely different. President Biden Press conference way where we were trying to obviously kind of dig for things in and get a sense of what was going to come out of this and how he was gonna measure success. but it was it. There is no, I think moment where you thought My god he's taking the word of Putin over his own government in a completely different view from the age of the current president after Geneva, I would say I mean eight at the White House AIDS.

Ninety five percent of them when they were in the Trump Administration healthy, we're gonna talk some on the record. They would back the president, not so There was this sense. I would say that they still backed president trump up in kind of figured out a way to defend it. We think of care. and calmly, and so many others. I am of course, I'm background. Some of them were were definitely not always as supportive by a big from a meme. So I think there's that so I they weren't, of course, as I think, competent sounding as the bided administration, Aids were because I feel like the present bite and laid out exactly what he wanted to do before he got to the meeting, and then you could ask them exactly what he accomplished. After the meeting you commented on Twitter I'm others about the fact that the Putin by meeting was expected to be forty five hours, and it was not merely that long. Do you make anything out of that? I can subways lean on what the President said, which is after two hours. They looked at each other and said:

next time. We want a meeting right Robin and a meeting that could have been an email right syllable. So in such a way that it feels like both men. came there they were concise, they were fish it and they didn't have time to waste and they came there. They did what they did to do and then they laughed Commissioner, thank you for your server. Congratulations on the new Simon at Washington, weak and thanks for coming on the show. Thank you so much My conversation with your Michel cinder continues for members of the cafe insider community to try out the membership free for two weeks. Had the cafe dot com. Slash inside again, that's capita com, slash insider

So I want to show this week by talking about a very the impact for and meaningful dinner. I had two weeks ago, you may know about it, but I thought I'd. Give you a recap and tell people who may be did not hear about it. What the dinner was all about, but before I talk dinner. We should go back in time where the story begins in the story begins with a very ill considered awful tweet, by gentlemen by the name of Tom Nicholls who back and twenty nineteen we did in response to someone asking for bad food takes on Twitter Tom Nicholls posted. I think indian food is terrible and we pretend it isn't everytime. I read that My head sterile tweed, it's a terrible sentiment. He's just saying that tweet I don't like Indian through, although I think that what he meant to say only he suggesting that a billion people and more pretend they like it and they don't so was- are insulting to one

people technicals is a kind of a curmudgeon of a guy he's smart man, an academic and a conservative who doesn't like Donald Trump. So I applaud him for that and in the aftermath of posting that tweet, he heard it from all sides. People of indian Origin well, not of indian origin like indian food and people generally who and understand the ridiculous of his sentiment. So is a firestorm about it on social media? I joined in by criticising Tom Nicholls, somewhat good naturedly but then I also reached out to him privately and six stood a year and a half ago that Next time he was a new york. Maybe I could change his mind. Persuaded to be more open minded about the cuisine of the country of my birth, because surely there something he would like in a cuisine that, by the way, features multiple, multiple kinds of food from different regions and about a meal

dishes. So from time to time we would interact with each other than covert happened and as we started to come out of the corona virus I reached out to Tom couple of months ago, and I said you know we still have to have that dinner. and eventually he said he would come to New York and we would have dinner so is very excited about this dinner. I pick when the great indian restaurants in New York on twenty street called Sonia that features The traditional indian food and also more cutting edge food, and I began to but the strategy that I would employ to persuade Tom Nicholls goes, as you may know, I'm a competitive guy. I like to succeed, especially where other people have failed, so I feel some the pressure to make sure that the dinner, when okay and in an honest Tom Nicholls, would have his mind changed at least somewhat the day before we had dinner. I thought in another great thing we might do

maybe raise some money for a good cause, and I've been speaking for a number of weeks, as you know, about the disaster that is covered in India, where, although in this country, it's it's getting better, the United States in most regions, its ravaging disaster in India and lots and lots of people are suffering, including members of my extended family and people who my dad went to school with and so kind of on a lark. The day before dinner, we set up a go fund me through which every dollar though we raised, would go to a global non profit group called in the aspects which have been doing a fund raising dry for India and providing funds and resources, including to the wish foundation. and some other institutions in India to help with Coburg relief. So and have this dinner with discouragingly white guy who says everyone hates food but along the way, some funds for a covert relief in India and are modest thought at the time was

If we're lucky and things go well, and people pay attention, maybe we'd raise a couple of thousand dollars, recovered relief in India. Much to my surprise, after tweeting about it a couple of times and time tweeting about it. By the time we sat down for dinner before it even ordered. a bite or a drink. The go find me had already raised through thousand dollars in covered relief. So that was promising beginning. You should know that my competitiveness, I didn't embark on this ordeal, own enlisted, one of the owners of the restaurant minish, who had a consultation would the chef himself understanding. This is an important project that we to change Tom Nicholls, mind, and so people mass with astray she was for the evening and allow play. Some people suggested that we should apply Tom with spicy dishes. We should and then do we should make his mouth explode. That went against my strategy, I'm a conciliatory person and I want to succeed here and so my thinking was that over the years Tom and parliamentarians in Restaurants- ain't your polynesia palate.

There are indeed dishes it. I don't like to their italian dishes that I love and some, but I don't love same- is true inadequacy and by happenstance, perhaps Tom, it only had a certain kind of food. It was clear to me that he can't really no spicy food, not much. You can do about that. That happens sometimes and it also seemed apparent? Did he some aversion the some ingredient in curry. Now there's a lot of curry and indian food, and I love curry and his baby one of my favorite things when it comes to indian cuisine. What are many other things too? So I thought we try curry. We would keep things not spicy in consultation with the chef and we would order a lot of things. I think we all enough food for about seven people, even though there are just two of us to see what he would like and what he might not. so it began well enough. We ordered at First Classic Street indian food, depending on where you from India call Polypary or Golgotha, which he thought was fine. He said he would order it again.

It was fine did not offend him, and then we want another other appetizers along the way and we kept ordering and ordering, and we gave dates on social media time from time to time, take a video and posted on Twitter, our rights or we're checking in and we ve got through the advertisers and some small plates here were three are right, so Tom how's it so far, are given joyed many, if not all, of the dishes. Yeah there was a kind of a hot finished the shrimp, but I had a little trouble with their joy. Many he's going. You enjoy many additional. Yes, we will check in with you were about to order mean courses and really chow down. So we want we will be back soon a bit. I would also take the twitter one point I tweeted, so radio free time has recharge his phone. while we're alone, I can report that he actively liked many dishes neutral, others, and no,

really only one thing and then I added the breads arriving the bread by the way are very on offensive. We ordered to body and non and proper, and I think he liked all of those two and then came the moment of Truth Tom Tweet Ten o three p m. We have a winner, the first thing I would order again and could even imagine having a craving for at some point, Lamb, Biryani Curse, you Preet Bharara, who doesn't like a good lamb, Biryani at one thousand, two hundred and fifty seven a dot m the late dinner time tweeted. So to summarize the hashtag indian Food summit, I have gone from who could like this too? You guys want to go out for indian tonight, I'm good with that, because in others if I'd like for a prick,

she'll guy. Like me, that's a big change kudos to shift hurry and pre Pereira. I knew not what I insulted the cuisine of a billion people. There would be a day of reckoning and that dairy, thereby denying Tom you have your real name as time later wrote in the USA today piece about our dinner at one point. During the meal we paused to check the status of the go find me. It was now over fifty thousand dollars and, as he writes quote Britain, I looked at each other in disbelief, but if people were going to keep donating, I was going to keep eating, but can we finish the dinner and went home. We had seventy five thousand dollars and funds raised for covert relief in India. As of this recording, we have raised if you can believe it. One hundred thirty four thousand dollars four covert relief, tv, some sense of where that money can go and how much good it can do in. The aspect is given

and to the Wish foundation and with the money that we raised, they will be able to build a full ten bed centre in another partnership with the money we raise. They will be able to provide more than two hundred and fifty thousand meals in connection with the third partnership in the hospital will be proven. direct four hundred dollar cash transfers to families who have lost primary breadwinners, All we do is have a meal and tweet about it and raised a hundred and thirty four thousand dollars, so all in all a pretty good night, pretty good conversation in, good cause served Ass Tom writes in his USA? Today, peace quote. I began this adventure by sending a billion people and when it was over, I learned about food made new friends and helped in a small way to alleviate it. suffering of people in another country. That's a lot for one dinner, and while I had tiny bit of heartburn the morning, my actual heart after a law spell of pessimism and concern felt pretty good. End quote thanks to all of you for giving

thanks to have you found along- and I hope it's a small lesson that people who disagree with each other can come together. Break bread enjoy each other's company. The people can change their minds and, along the way, to good things for other people and a final note: it's not too late to donate. If you'd like to a link to the go find me is in the shone out well, that's it for this episode of stay tuned, thanks again to my guest, Unique Elsinore, If you like, what we do rate Have you to show an apple pie casts or wherever you listen, every pause, review, helps new listeners find the sheriff. Send me your questions about news, politics and justice. Tweet them to me at Pre, Ferrara with the hashtag asked

or you can call and leave me a message at six hundred and sixty nine, two hundred and forty seven, seven thousand three hundred and thirty, eight at six, six thousand nine hundred and twenty four preet or you can send an email to stay tuned to cafe dot com. Tuned, is presented by CAFE studios and the Vocs media podcast network. Your host is preparing the executive producer, is tomorrow, supper senior producer is Adam Waller. The technical director is David Tadich or the cafe team is Matthew. Billy David Kurlander, SAM Ozark State Noah Azalai, not Weiner, Jake, Kaplan, Jennifer, corn, Chris Boyland and Sean Walsh. Our music is by entry, I'm Preet Bharara stay tuned.