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From you at those two psychic power since government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff. They don't want you to know, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the show. My name is known and are you hopefully listeners? My name is been our colleague and confidants, our those associate our what some might call right or die mainly at that short. That Frederick, is on a mission that he mentioned earlier, not so much a secret mission, but emission none, the less you and I see will be returning very soon. You may be able to catch him alive, shows here and there, but you didn't hear it from ice, however,

this does not mean that it just no and I, in the studio today, no, we are. We are thrilled to have a they showed guest with us. This is a the show and a friend of mine. We ve known each other, for while the dust is an instructor at Kenneth State University. Also. Pretty well known writer on religious studies on the intersection of technology may call which will get to spoiler alert as well as philosophy and his manner fact when we were talking about this off the air really joy. How do we in the stuff we're gonna talk, today. Lotta hats lotta was about a lotta had ladies and Damien, Patrick Williams could be with you guys today, thanks for having hey you thank you so much for agreeing to go down a couple of crazy rabbit. Holes with us rabbit holes are the best kind of rabbit whole. Yes, as far as we are concerned, this show they are. The only

kind of rabbit holes before we get to today's episode demon there's a thing that no one that and I do where we introduce listeners to each other, We like to call on that's right, listen German, is the return of the shout out foreigner and we have a few people who have requested a shout out mister do you wanna do the honors? Oh, why not here's one for Tony her nand as shut out to Tony, because he was sent to the super bugs episode while fighting and ongoing infection. Hopefully it wasn't a super infection the luck to you, Sir, and a shout out to Gwendolyn who said it was a life goal of hers to receive a shout out on the show, check that off market, less dwindling net out yonder

We got one more here for today and that would be still sergeant Adam then who, to know our thoughts on, simulated reality, which is something the daimio you and I know what you're going to get into any future officer right here. And that's our shadow corner for today. So I'm so excited that we're we're going to take a look at today's topic, because it's something that we have talked about at times, nor video series are, we started. A little bit. Alchemy alchemy So what? What? What is alchemy, I think the best way, about alchemy is to think about the historical position attempts to occupy. You look back at like the dark and middle ages in both,

up and a corresponding timeframe, but even earlier than that back in china- and you can see this drive to try to change one thing into another in the European Alchemical set, you ve got. This thing where everybody was trying to find a way to turn led into gold, which is like that the the tip top thing that pretty much everybody knows about alchemy brain crystal here I and so this idea of being able to Trans Mute and that's the big word and chemical processes, transmutation, being transmute, one thing to another thing, taking their minerals, various metals, substances and solutions and turning things into other things? I guess what think about, alchemy as its portrayed new and popular culture and such

always seems to be a mystical element to it, but then a lot of time soon I hear it describes the way you ve done. It sounds much more like a precise science, but in reality, isn't it kind of somewhere between exactly what I was about to say. It's like you can't separate the one from the other. If you look at the the hermetic, while chromatic philosophers, practitioners of more known as the hermetic arts. These people were, they were very, very precise about what it was: They thought they were doing. There were specifically formulations, specific formulations, specific combinations and operations that needed to be undergone, processes that needed to be very very carefully maintained, for instance, in some of the things that we are now in the modern age perhaps seem like spells or rituals wherever consider

things like a scientific experiments that must be reproducible right exactly and if its, not reproducible than it get failed, is not outcome. If not alchemy gave its not reproducible. If you can't put this down in attacks for a further AL chemicals didn't further the nest beyond yourself new engaging than then it's a failure. Needs further study, you obviously missed something if it can't be reproduced right, Elliot spoken about this poor off. Here, I believe, were was John D, who had some weird discussing who had some incredible Specific rules, in terms of process and materials for his alchemical rituals, yes, and the he was at the time he was proud, the best known alchemists in near the popular imagination

DE was the spine after four the first. He was her seat agent. He was her visor, he was her her chief scientists, she one he was master magician to the queen- rumour that when around that for a while there that he used to sign his letters, double o seven has been in no way shape or form ever fully substantiated. But it's a curse. Rumor is a really cool room like like that's where even Fleming got it. So overall I mean like a skill set. There definitely lends itself tube subterfuge, pulling the wool over people's exactly being able to. If at all The boldness direct able to alter the perceptions of the people that you have to lay in front of you or perhaps not directly in front of you, but two, hold up in order to build up a sense of mystery, a sense of power

or that others might not be able to adequately match. How does that tie into the results that we're talking about, because I think he had some pretty extensive journals that one might consider to be scientifically? some sorts when it comes to this alchemy that he that absolutely so d in his processes, as he was doing, the work John D is famous amongst a call, holes anyway. A famous for his work on the European tax arm. He does this work envy communing with angels? There's no, really, there's no other way that he actually put what he described here. He for free arms rituals performs magical and alchemical operations to put himself in a state of mind and a state of physical and metaphysical being where he can talk to angel.

And receive transmissions of their language, and then he transcribes it down in our languages, the unity and tax. Exactly, and so the like be the inner Gardena again is it takes its name from the biblical character of Enoch book of Vienna is an apocryphal taxed in Christianity. Is providence is dubious boy, it entails story of a man dinner who, at the time, His death does not die name does not, then you know spirit, transform into then spiritual being that goes to having to live with God. Instead, Enoch is raised up here, turned into an angel at the time of his death, and so he becomes the voice of God. He becomes the bridge

before humanity and divinity, and so the unknown the language as DE describes. It is that bridge language. Is that that moment that way of communicating between humans, and that is why this is a fascinating concept in its one that we see bandied to some degree or another in a lot of popular fiction, almost like a referential way, this transformative work. You know this that psycho Joseph Campbell Phrase work, I your with the dying born guide in its stranger. We see so many of the same. Stories, echoing through the halls of time. But there is one question there They ask. Did anyone successfully reproduce these work tat we know of not in the kind of public

reclaimed. Reproductions of you know here some huge it results that D claim to have gotten MIKE. Because of these work, you ve got an entire tradition of western magicians and alchemists come along hermetic philosophers eyes. Give them style themselves that came along afterwards and what they did was. You know they said they manage to reproduce the results. They also said that if you didn't yourself see the results, it was because you had not gone the processes to be able to see the results that, in order to directly experience this, you have to go through the transformative process. You have to perform the process itself in order to actually be able to recognize what's happening in order to be able to hear it see it feel itself. No, that's that's the first Finally, I want to I wanna go back just for just one that impact

Painting here were the audience, ladies and gentlemen, when we are talking about the origins if you're, no in Damien, pointing out the pointing out that alchemy as this ancient art Falling into a science took place, in more than just Western Europe, most west me I traced back, I believe, the Hellenistic, Egypt and the the completely separate ranch, one could argue, would be more eastern, but in both cases What we are seeing is the origin of tempting to logically categorize quantifies somehow or the universe in her in a rational way other than just saying, oh, cried the sun's. Here again, I hope it's not angry with me today, right, you know bright Chinese.

Alchemy, for instance, is deeply tides, Taoism and the Taoists, but oftentimes considered doubt magical practice. What that looks like today, when we look at what they were doing in the operations that they were undergoing in that process, we would call that in a very real sense, medicine yeah. We call that if we wanted to me a kind of linear progression story out of it in the story that you know, because its narrative is about making? and might or might not have merits somebody else who hears it. But if we wanted to tell us, Without it we could tell a story about chinese alchemy becoming modern day pharmacology. It's about balancing. Various energies within yourself, is about using potions too stand life it's about, engage, in the balancing of various elements and energies and one of the terms that got used in the old days was humours s really

because I mean a lot of that is still very to live today- and you know massaged there be enough reflex, algae and you know a central is another kind of stuff, and I mean now. Certainly there are those that wouldn't you don't prepared, but I mean Peter people. Practices in people swear on everyone. I would are perhaps then that is more alive today, then maybe some of the more transmutation, all forms of alchemy. This is getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, perhaps that a lot of those people that I talk to and when we talk about the history of alchemy, we talk about. You know Alan finds its footing in the modern era in play for a century as material science, so you ve got the other ladys but apparently jitters is this. Is this is a growing disagree point I want to draw a parallel here as well. So if we are if we are telling a story right if we

we would consider alchemy in China, ultimately becomes pharmacology. We have There is substance to the use of herbal medicine in this in this sphere right there? not a placebo effect in all cases, but I also, I wonder, if Western branch of Alchemy leads to wealth, as you said, nanomaterials, which will get you, but also some of the origins of chemistry, found in alchemy regrets that it absolutely Gregg because we're talking, as we previously noted, about people who are trying to reproduce results there talking about building,

and working with elements that they are beginning in this way to understand and what we consider a more fundamental way. The way that we look at elements in chemistry now, the way we think about the atomic structure of things was unknown at that point in time there was vague hints if we look back at like Democritus Epicure us back in the Greeks of courting quote atomic fury, but That was not the kind of robust electron shells in protons, neutrons kind of chemical theory that we have today. It was instead at that. Waiting time about, but there are days elements there are elements of the earth. There are elements that are more solid, and then there are more rarefied elements that are more refined elements, elements like gold, like silver lining.

Platinum and those elements. If you leave elements of the earth alone for long enough, filbert com. This kind of more rarefied element. They will evolve into it on their own, so our job as alchemists to figure out the process by which those base Ellen turn into the more rarefied elements and then replicate that process to control that process to manipulate process for ourselves. Ah, indeed, gets into gets into something fascinating, so there is a bit of it, I'll cultivation. In a bit of the conspiratorial aspect, alchemy, there is a bit of stuff they don't. I want you to know, because all of these works moving a base element to something more rarefied, more pure, are a micro cosmic example of some

else, which is the big the big often in the room, the great work yes and we'll get to that after work from our sponsor. The morning after the party, I'm up it's a second time mob, I moved in four months ago, the first being Yesterday morning before the party I reached the point, where I know how comfortable I am being a slob, but I really don't want my friends to know mostly not MAC. Her music lays down the rhythm for my swipes in sloshes, as it did for dish before there stands living room recombine population before that. Yes, I am saying is that it's my third time today through the album she gave me, but don't judge it's sad and brash imperfect. From place through me, like

preparation of a lap half an inch above hot skin, but the types of her hair sought through my fingers, Lothar where is my favorite song cover less showcase that something disjointed I've gotten. The head of the lyrics, my mop sweeping the downbeat instead of the back and that Greek not occur the floorboards both are in their own sunbeams flat on the couch? It came from the album my backing get, I moved my phone and scepticism back to the beginning, It's all normal and the cats have adjusted their intended his ears in the way. That means there ignoring me on purpose now: so I bring out the wet yarns again and am daydreaming about backup vocals when there it is an extra. Lilting through that third line and almost of key and emphasized by its own tacked on beat and a moment later, that noise nothing Hardwoods. Now that I hear at its guttering grind works

against warped frame muffled behind the rest of the track weird. They didn't know it before, but I figure it for low fi charm. Some studio flocked them the mandolin player, bringing back another couple beers before next song or whatever. I should keep cleaning MAX protect me later, maybe come back over, but something in my mind keeps fluttering over that misstep, the mathematical and probability of the pattern map in bucket. My phone and wine, the song back finger, dragging overcoming screen. This time is expected anything along. Sweet, the beat, with a slap on my tie and sudden sensible satisfying even like picking

Our problem is that even the stuttering scrape the comes after is a strange comfort. Then I register here my neighbour and turn linking into brightness the door that never was is open and the eyes beyond our burning cleanse the clatter of this old world and open Do that I was with a Hermes mop, find them wherever agent hidden doorways may lead useful. These rights and only in conjunction with Hermes approved bucket and other Hermes household products from several colleagues are not responsible for any of the following side effects: Necromancy Catholic Association, Canary Bird left courts, don't point well smooth transition. Transubstantiation pointed it was wretched. Gaucho stroke reconsider, missing and concentrate Hermes. How

Well, there's a subsidiary of illumination global, unlimited here's where it gets crazy, so Damien. What is this great work Well, we were talking about the idea of the great work or were usually referencing a kind of formulation. Kind of conceptualisation about the magical process of rough hanging oneself so rather than taking. A metal like lead in creating a metal like gold from it or taking a basic human right Then they saw the mace nature of ourselves base, meaning animal like meaning. You know in the sense of we have our drives, that our food and for sex

for comfort and for shelter, but those drives are there their base their basic? They are not refined drives. Those are not the drives that we ought to be shooting, for they are, if need be yes present, but they're not which should drive our lives are not which it make us who be are right, so this base nature that we have needs to be refined for the process of the great work into something pure and in many cases, are seen as something pure again. That is back to what we used to be so. There were comes this kind of abrahamic judeo Christian Islamic kind of sense. The fall, the imperfections of humans as being the result of the work of humans were there, wings of humans, and so, if we can do what we can to recapture that kind of pre.

It dean it moment. If we can recapture that and turn ourselves back into that through an integration with nature through under standing. The processes of nature as nature works through imbue in our self, with the same trains, mutational processes, the same willing for all that need her has than we can turn ourselves again. We can make ourselves again into that kind of perfect rarefied golden So the great work is ultimately a redemptive act in many fields. In many ways. Yet many see it that way, some see it as an apotheosis, some seed The combination of the great work has not becoming again like we used to be, but to reach a level as with God that is to put ourselves. We had

come down from this code, unquote pure state. We had to fall, we had to be in this case the process of being in the mud trying survive and scrounge and scrape and then move through that and become more than that and then come more than we even ever were before that and to become finally, like God and that's the process of the great work in that's the point of it many sea and some see not just that, but that that's life for putting garden next year, the death. What God wants us to do? That's the purpose explicitly! So? Would you say that being a successful, alchemists sort of a physical, Personification of having sex still, he performed this great work on yourself that was the idea of being aid, the elderly, a successful alchemists an I should take a step back

say that a lot of what we know a lot of what we think no about alchemy and a lot of our respect alchemy, is reconstruction right, so we're looking backward at a group of people? who then, as you noted, were very secretive about this work there they were in fact calling it in many ways off air. Previously, we discussed this idea of I'll chemical tax being written in code yes, yes, ok, the disease This is a fantastic envy, Devlin thing so listeners alot of a lot of us have written back and forth with each other here, maybe twitter, email or facebook about. Mysterious tat. We ve talked about on both legitimately on decipher text like the varnish manuscripts we ve talked about that were recreations of that that come.

Completely mundane sources like the correct ceremony is, however, this this the fascinating, because there, are both practical and philosophical reasons. For writing One of the big questions that I'd like to explore will be the relationship of our to the established churches of the time yet, and indeed that play any role in this use of code to an extent, Some alchemists were in fact working to hide their processes and their actual activities from the church at the time because This was a point at which the understanding of magic for the sake of the church was beginning to be seen as a kind of taboo There was a point in church history and which magic that gets done. There is theirs biblical magic. There is a history of of jewish magic. Of course,

magic of islamic magic, their traditions of magical processes being built out certain understandings and certain decipher rings of the tax. The entire history of Germany, Austria and the cabal is about deciphering coded it s from out of that or from by using numerical transformations onwards and texts that then find hidden messages in the text and the same was applied to the new testament by gnostic thinkers him building these kinds of perspectives out of what is hidden, what is the hidden meaning within the text and in the Gnostics came before the first really attested cabal is obviously but right in all this. I keep thinking wasn T kind of an alchemist. Actually the alchemists magicians, hermetic magicians working later down the line made that exact argument that what Jesus specifically was

doing was working to teach people how to perfect and to refine themselves and in the process by the way you're safe change, one thing and do another really live under people. I got five loaves vision: revivals, bread, some fish here, go back I don't know guys in the mood for water today and is not feel this is a nice sunny day. Our wedding shes am here's that asked why you ve ever tasted yeah. That's that's really good point, I think, and its enemy- that's it. That is, that is all I have thought it gets deployed, like I said by various romanticists that we see in Jesus, as that kind of figure is the ideal of the I missed you, know, there's something in all of this. That keeps kind of bothering me is that the end product of a lot of this alchemy Usually some

We sought after material area, so there's a certain element of like titillation, unlike peeking people's sort of baser instincts, left greed or, like you know, wanting to be wealthy Ethel in that sort of it's almost like gum, yet it would cause you be more likely to believe that if you think it could benefit even some, why are you accusing alchemy being prosperity? the ideology I'm not making sure that we get into that feels really used. Violence related point rather than prosperity. The algerian might actually suggest that you think of it in terms of like marketing. Marketing and no alive. Thinking you wanna so people on this process. Going to ultimately change and benefit them if they follow through with it. But people are like you hear that people are especially if it's like a long, complex involved process, and we ought to hear that is they telling people work out. Yet though he knew it

vegetables and stuff like exercise and like don't smoke, and he read me none like can I just like on the couch would like an answer and have somebody here and then that's a good point again soon There's a there's. Another thing there that when you were saying that no it makes me it makes me think of the pursuits and I don't know how we got this far into the pike ass. We are talking about it, but if you ladies and gentlemen, think of alchemy than you probably think at least once of the philosopher's stone S right. Which is sometimes a misunderstood thing. It's not necessarily this one guys magic rock right right before for stone is variously described in many chemical tax did sometimes a stone. Like a literal jam, it sometimes an elixir that one takes

sometimes a secular, like a chalice in some like at one point in one taxed, monsieur Ellie, ADI, the sociologist of religion. Looking and anthropologist of religion looks at that might be. Relax between the philosopher's stone and the Holy GRAIL, never these transformative relics, these ideas of creation and refinement all of these things are very very. I thought these things that you can taken and you can the more you can have the american move, an inch and work them into yourself, but the process is most researchers into alchemy have come to understand. The process is about making yourself into philosopher's. Stone, yes, is out there, you becoming

This thing that can transform, because the the myth of the philosopher's stone is that you can the philosopher's stone transmute anything into anything else without any kind of process, without any kind of like horror, where other than will other than will you just? Will it to be want this you want now. What's transform, that got into a raging six per exam, you know you want in the matrix a meal in the matrix, hey you wanna, have the knowledge of everything in the Library of Congress. You hold onto philosopher's stone, you think about it real hard. There you go, you want a pilot, old. This table used to be that there is, and you can make anything anything without having to do the hard work of it seems like a devils bargain to me, though, but that's the thing is that you get this thing. Supposedly

what, in the philosopher's stone which are actually getting isn't this object, this item that allows you to turn something into something else. It's this way of existing that lets. You recognise the interconnection between all things, and even if they get that. Sorry for even if this were do exist in the world, the arguments is that, by nature of the problem, of creating this sort of thing or discovering this sort of thing? The person who wields it? He can themselves so changed by that experience that they are not the same person who were there was so it is like a quest for like the Holy GRAIL or something it's not the object of self it's the process of getting to the object and then once you're at the object. You realize what I'm

do what our initially thought I was gonna do with this thing. The magic was inside you all the time on your whole bush starts with an eye exile, edges at any time. You can make a reference to the last per se, it I'm fine, but which is still a man. I was surprised that it holds up solid, moving. It holds up in some ways. You know what What's interesting, they're gonna, love that we're talking about this. Holy grail combination, now I'm getting a psycho. That might be of his hope for a different day. About the next thing that we often hear which is the cure all the panacea? Yes, yes, and actually comes back Are you a lot of what we hear in terms of chinese alchemy? We have this goal of in training the main goal is to balance. As I said, the energies inside of yourself to overcome poison,

to be able to be healthier to live longer and, in some ultimate cases, become a mortal right and possibly learn how to white fly and stuff and not like a little king, no Agnelli Healthy Immortal wherever you go out and day yet the Ike like there's stories of the like the ancient. Yeah. The ancient master, who has somehow mastered immortality, mastered unbalanced all of their energies and recognises that all things are an eternal dance of energies and they exist within that dance themselves from so if they just exist within it, they know have to die, but also in those we seek. Peeling Oh Jesus want me to say it. Narratives would be another. We seized compete ideas because some of the same mythical, figures, legendary figures. Are seen by chemists as true again with others

the powers of the divine r C Powers, while It is in in alchemy, are depicted nefarious infernal in so other, I mean I'll, say it in a lot of organised religions gets very true I mean so before back into the panacea, with iraqi back a second to talk about John D, a little bit more and a little bit about Enoch man, the innocuous language in the book of Iraq in the Mediterranean. Same apocryphal text of the book of Enoch. We're talking about story in which in is given and has made due to the fall of the angels there. Bought on the side of Lucifer in the battle against Heaven he's made privy to what happened to them. And what happened to them is that they came down to earth and they had, as they say,

Greece and the knowledge of human women right right now, Finland will ever born out of this union of angelic and human. This kind of animal Lee abomination is usually House categorized, his like the outcome of an old and delicate powers and human powers Megan, that various feature figure with two It is a good thing that comes about as a result of the divine, and the human meeting in a way that they're not supposed to do great things that don't go great together right, but also in that before we get to the NAFTA Moron. Actually, while that's happening because the angels in question that fall there not just like up we're gonna come down, oh hey hot person, and let them that's over its leg. Theirs. They live with humans. Right, yea change with humans. They will all be the population because knowledge and wisdom of things that humans were never supposed to have a say

for anybody out there familiar with the movie fallen with tens Washington that character. Doesn't. Come out of nothing. They d character of his easels actually first referenced in the book of Enoch, and he is originally an angel of death when his is to make death into shepherd souls in death. Oftentimes can with the figure of semi l and which is the Many categorization the pre fall name of Lucifer but Aziz. All becomes this minister of war to human beings as Hazel teaches humans how to make war how to make weapons how to make. In metal weapon, and so we see the story about the bronze age recast as well, then the angels out and talk to some humans about some stuff, and now we knew how to make swords are metal right right, let's for less

follow this the curve of this, rather all just just a little bit further down this too I'm a tangent avid hands. Were you guys are so for our listeners. You'll have to be consciousness. This might sound like what we striving would be a bunch of you to somewhat them who did people who are spinning fanciful if engaging stories about the world, but this is still. Still science at work here, which is the strangest part. I read recently an arrow if he has heard about this, that Jim Babylonian astronomers work in Jupiter, yes with calculus, like actual and in fact, calculus Several thousand years before we ever thought that that was invented right rate, because this was so strange is that in what's so strangers at the reason they were track. The reason that they had this amount

can complex math, which was well done, and is Europe, let's keep in mind. This concerns a planet that no one in our species, at least officially has been to yeah and so and they're, not working with technology remotely close to what is here in the modern day, they were as you are doing this amazing job, because they were We know the religious implications right, they were ultimately looking for even we're doing solid work. They were ultimately looking for. Poor nations on the axe- and the mood of the gods right and so ultimately, yeah the result of that they end up inventing calculus. You know about ten thousand years before we thought it like when you stop and think about what is actually present

It are capabilities. Will we will? We can to do and what motivates us to do it, as you said so, one other thing that I tend to tell my students. When we now learn about philosophy of religion, then we talk about eighty ism and agnosticism and belief. Monitor things I talk about is okay. So let's talk about Islam for a little bad name. In Islam, its command man to know the works of God to understand the world is a responsibility that you dig gown via science, ass, an art and figure out the world. However, you can it because, from that perspective, God need this, and God put humans here to enjoy it to experience it then, to take

air of it. So you better figure it out pretty fast. So can we get mathematical like mathematical advancements from islamic cultures around the world down through human history. As a result of this, we get our advancements, we get Jim. A advances that we never would have seen. A people hadn't been trying to accurately reproduce religious experience, because. God said so forget that such a great way to put it because we are finding, is that No, when you- and I were doing the flat earth episode earlier with that one thing, found. Was this whole myth about that this entire myth about people thinking the earth was flat until what was it fourteen they are so that that entails. Time. People knew the whole time people knew the earth was round. The big argument was like how big is a right. Not what shape is it, but because

there were behind the report, attempted to make science in faith seem at didn't raise reuse at loggerheads, which is awkward word, I was trying to bring back, but I think I'm gonna have to give up on that when I like loggerheads, I it's hard to deploy, but it's a good word don't give up on the island. I kind of early dropped it and then just kept running in the past and hoped that no one called call me out on the the best one we had was in The third was word nor I think you invented it horse wash right there, it's hard to say you could have been used before, but it just occurred to me and I use poetic, I'm gonna go. So what were learning is that Not only is it not the case that Science in faith would be more oh enemies or irreconcilable in instead, it is the case that for much,

of human civilization, the two within one and the same exactly another cisely like when we think and talk about, Alchemy left precisely what we see we're seeing this unification of scientific faith and mouth side of things that's what we're seeing we're seeing this scientific, duration. What would later come to be called scientific exploration of faith of the war of nature of the operations of God, because that's what her medicis alchemists magicians at this time are looking for their looking for how does God? to work through nature. How is nature this perfect plan that God created that in a works and functions and takes a long perfectly? How does that happen? And can we do it?

The million dollar question, a million philosopher's stone question at a price for still trying to answer many levels today. So let's end on this note, what is more alchemy. What is the future of welcoming the current? This position of alchemy assets, stood in the world today, it's kind of economists, On the one hand, people look at me and look at the processes of alchemy and they scarf say how could anybody have ever been so naive as to think that you could transmit lead into gold, the winner in time we have a large on collider, that could do you just that That's true: we have the abyss. To turn energy into matter. We have,

ability to do that on a very large scale, and we can do it in a very small scale. I know a physicist working at Agnes right now? Who could do that in her lab when she goes in like later today like she didn't, we can make photons and neutrons out of photons do so only hard mean we can do this We can change the atomic weight of things. We know how to manipulate things and turn them into or give them the properties of other things. Now we, I think If we brought John D or Isaac Newton- oh, Also Isaac Newton was a practising alchemists right for those of you still unaware about his aren't, you drop that aren't you buy legged apple, get apple on your head right, Isaac, Newton alchemists! It is interesting, though, because I mean you know you think about just the very idea that these people it would be possible, is pretty innovative in and of itself

there are now getting around your catching up with these ideas I want to speak about whether or not I believe these things to be true, and I regret that the results were reproducible at the time, but the idea itself. His fascinating that you can turn why material into another word me: no change these fundamental aspects of matter and the fact that we are now getting around to it and hundreds of years later is pretty cool then is if we, word already doing it in secret, as have proposed that part air it Let's put it this way. We mentioned that the hidden history of alchemy. We mentioned the work being transcribed into coded texts, and if there are people there who have been in the process. Reducing these results, turning himself the philosopher stones being able to understand the energetic processes that alter everything, probably not just gonna, like you know, tell everybody.

Does a very good absolute with I mean beyond the fact that, actually being able to turn any material into gold would add a fun at the level and upset the in time. World market lie if these philosophers were correct, and I believe that its about the process that learning and becoming more that figuring, this stuff and the change that we undergo as a process of it. As a result of the process, I mean then they're, not gonna wanna, just tell you right that's it! That's not only it's worse than it. She called because invalidate what you could have done exactly sir, be done, it was or cannot be done. I really like the readers digested with you, the cliff no right it, you have to go through the process and so on,

and, as I said like, if you bring Isaac Newton John D today, they see what we can do. They see what we ve learned. They see what we ve become as a result of may following our chemical processes and spiritual engagement. Exactly but by saying. Ok, what we're one can we now? What can we understand? What do we know about nature and What we have is ass a species and what those of us who follow those operations directly who undergo this operation directly in my search, look like today, I think they say that alchemy was still to improve and on that new we are going to end our first episode together. Damien. Thank you so much for coming on the shoe. Where can people fine. More of your work. Where can I read about you? Maybe talk to you internet,

Can we only internet on Twitter? That's at woven, that's w, o l Vienne, and you can read my work at a future worth thinking about dot, com and technical document. And we are going to be returning next week to know Daimios really happy with our ability to not talk about the other stuff. There was superseded by the officials in very good restraint there. I was impressed with her. I was impressed on this. We hope you enjoy this episode. We hope meeting next week when we cover technology and the courts, the future of sites and magic, Ed in the meantime. If you'd like to hear any other episode, we also have ever done. We have one on narcissism that you might enjoy. You can visit website stuff? They don't want you to know dot com

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