Here's the thing: saving money with Geico was almost better than playing pick up basketball, because there's always that guy who joined your game He never passes the rock. He constantly Rex theories and who completely happy when, put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico. It's easy. Switch and save on car insurance. No, the vacant. Ankle sprang because you're absolutely exhausted, so which in save with Geiger it's almost better than sports, he cannot get, and I would invite you to listen to a new pod cash from the dodo. An animal saved my life. The dodo is, there most watch animal storyteller, unsocial, and now it's bringing those stories to life in audio here about a dog untrained knows, detect cancer sooner than a machine can and a people who put it health between her mom in an oncoming train, listen

an animal saved, my life on the Iheart Radio, app on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast you at those two psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn, stuff. They don't want you to know. Lou will come back to the show. My name is met. My name is no. They called me Ben we are joined with our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deck, and you are you you are here that makes this stuff. They don't want you didn't know as you listening to today's shill feel free to a drop in Europe, emerging reaction, whether its allow was sad, a mad. I dont know the names of those reactions available on

look what I got one who's the office just open now think: that's wow icon, while it could be wow work, would be o r, their official names their company line on what these reaction should be known ass, I hope they all have specific. Proper, now names like Derek or Calliope. I'm sure there actually is a title to each of those images seems like a pretty everything in its right place can accompany Facebook yeah really let might fall through the cracks. Now speaking, a vase While you listening to this feel free to peruse our facebook page stuff. They don't want you to note at conspiracy, stuff or our new here's where it gets crazy group on face Just you know, hang around there the whole time or listen. It's fine, nothing bad will happen to you, nothing that hasn't already happened, we'd like to introduce you to Facebook. If,

for some reason, you managed to listen to pod cast and never heard of this for in your wondering what the heck is, Facebook mean the Facebook right, not a facebook and that cuz it was in earlier physical iteration of Facebook, little known fact, if you were like over two billion people across this fair planet of ours, you use Facebook on a daily basis. Mobile traffic is a huge part of facebooks operation nowadays is originally was desktop and it was only four members of certain universities or call judges, but now anyone can get on it were provided they have the right equipment and internet connection as any crazy have mobile has advanced so exponentially a time where you still have both a phone that barely had stuff you could do on it and have snake and like a calculator yeah, it's what has it been? Twelve fifteen

sixteen years ago. So as it's been really really developing, there's is really wrapped up in the last more like ten years with like the Only a little more than a decade old ran yeah, it's true and it's an exponential growth that has prompted some question. In the industry outside of the industry in the minds of fringe researchers as well. Did this stuff grew organically was states hoarded on some level. The answer to that question. Both of those questions is actually yes, but maybe not in a super nefarious way, regardless of the origin of this exponential growth. We know that mobile is as nor said, huge and many people would not have predicted it is safe to say, but as of December twenty. Sixteen there are one point, one: five billion mobile daily active users.

Facebooks platforms, whether mobile, through an o s, which is the safer way or mobile through Facebook, app designing damn instagram as well since Facebook owns Instagram know that does not include Instagram. That's a great question that number shoots even further through the roof. If you include Instagram, which is also hugely popular right, Instagram has been one of the fastest growing, especially since Facebook has been taking in the increasing amount of flak over the years. That one point one five billion number that was an increase of twenty three percent from December. Twenty fifteen only smokes- and this means in over read between the lines that there are a lot of people who do not have a desktop computer or a laptop, have have no intention of by one and say I can just do everything in my digital life on my phone has become. You know

recently more true than you there's a many things that we would rely on a laptop or computer bill to do that, you can totally do on your mobile device and it's so much more convenient and easy and you always have right in front of your highballs here, and you can put your friends on programming go so that their faces will be introduced, even if they introduce the system, even if they dont have an online profile or a desire to create what you can put your friend if you're not into poky mine, you can open. So ok, here's here's! My big question Most of you already know this, but you think yourself. Won't. Facebook is massive thing, with all of these people walking around on their phones. Looking at their profiles and stuff. It's all free, though I want to pay money to down facebook. Yes, if you have a service for free

that uses add revenue, you are not the customer, you are the what the product, yet that's true, folks, We're not the customer of social media, you are the product of social media unless you are paying a monthly fee for it and even then, if you are paying a monthly fee for something, if it's not social media of your pain, a monthly fee for your cable company or your in that connection there also taking your data. You are more than one revenue stream for them and for Facebook this is usually important. We looked into the advertising revenue right where Facebook publicly makes a lot of its money, and mobile advertisement alone represents. Eighty eight percent of all facebooks add money from Q. Three: twenty seventeen quicker, donation, every incase we're going a little too inside baseball in businesses as you may or may not know, profits

losses in revenue, are divided up into four segments per year. The reach three months long there referred to quarters and in business in the lands where people say things like we'll housing, granular credence. These quarters are simply refer to as to one cue to you three queue for so this mobile advertising is huge for Facebook. Facebook needs this stuff to happen and for that to work they need to have someone looking. It adds they need users. That's where you come in, you might be saying not me fellows, not me, Abronia, because I dont have a facebook profile well just hold on. Hold, I'm just just for now pretend you do let's, let's talk a little bit about you? Let's talk about you, the Facebook users, what we know about you, so,

Twenty nine point: seven percent of users range and aid between twenty five thirty four years old and is the most common age, demographic of Facebook use and thus also as pretty sweet marketings. Two. Isn't it? Oh yeah, all those young professionals, all that new income fresh for the harvesting org. You know the folks we're staying at home with their parents because they cannot afford to buy. You don't pay rent anywhere because That's a whole other issue or having to deal with. Well, that's a lot less than that. But anyway. Yet we we do know that we should do in episode on the looming financial crisis, millennial generation and the post millennial generation stay tuned.

Effectively. Listening you're in their age group write to us and let you let us know what you think the biggest misconceptions are about your generation and everybody does want to have some sort of attention or connection on social media right It's why it works. You know you, you say something that is a funny one liner or whatever, and then you check back a few hours later, wow twenty four people know I exist near sweet addiction? Isn't it it is, and we do see, dopamine spikes both when you check mobile phone just in general for text messages, and when you look at Instagram or Facebook, Twitter what have you, so we are going to help you a little bit willingness. It turns out that Facebook users in general are most often on this platform in the middle of the week between one two three p m, and there are eighteen percent. More likely

to engage with whatever is posted. That means throw a like or comment or reaction, some sort, if it's Thursday and Friday. So if you want a lot of people to see your stuff and talk to you, Do it middle of the day on Thursday Friday, so a part of it Bell curve. Am I, if I'm on it Monday through Friday, twenty four slash, seven we're a little bit different in that regard, because in interest of full transparency, we use Facebook for work. That's that's what I tell myself and then there are a lot of people. I think who would see would be in the same boat and say well. I may only check it every so often, but I get notifications automatically push or I always logged in cause Facebook wants you to feel like it's more convenient to always be logged it, Not all of these users, though, are real, say why right see in it

estimates there. Eighty three million fake profiles floating around and that's probably a lower number than it is in actual very well. I mean that's a sizeable chunk of one point, something billion and you know users, but that still leaves you with over a billion users. True, even if it's a hundred million universe, two hundred million there still so many human beings using this thing, and there are also people who have multiple accounts of their own. So there's still a meat sack at the other side of the coin. Where did the phone, but does that mean that only one of those profiles counters real? What's true, it's like some folks that we work with we'll make themselves a work related Facebook or what they call a public facing facebook profile and then I'll keep their personal one. So they just do number friend their actual friends. Now there were not all friends with you know. Our people that, like the show that we interact with

we're all internet friends but dino. Yet the separate I, on the other hand, I only use my one cause. I don't care and attention or same actually on average, regardless whether the user is real or a bought. The usual tend to spend twenty minutes on Facebook per visit. Advertisers love this number, because That is an amazing amount of time to spend one website, especially one there's continually refreshing ads for you, crazy, there's. A quick, Jim has ever if either of you ever been taken in by an online add had as an online had ever done anything more to you than just register annoyance. Have you have you any better? cesspool interaction with an online add. Were it knew something about you and served you just the right product or service that you were immediately like. I must have this new me like a civilian thing. We're instead I'm going to complain about the error rate?

well now. Never, I always wonder I did is it just seems very ham fisted most of the time. The way you get served as online under some wondering like how successful is it really? I don't know, I can't think of one it's interesting. Because you're right, it reminds me of the early. He's in the terminator universe when they say the first androids were easy to spot right. They didn't sweats, bleed or whatever, and they got increasingly sophisticated. That's what's happening now, so it may be ideal but the ideal world. For some of these add providers and data aggregation centres. It may be that they were you to not know that you are being taken in by an ad. They want you to feel like you just had an epiphany and realized. You needed a whopper

you got a wonder like maybe even think that the ads that I see as being unsuccessful, maybe they're, somehow implanting that whopper idea in my head through subliminal means. No. I dont know or they're just doing it outright fits a beauty. Products There's something I want my wife watches on social media. It's you know, someone that she likes in is interested in and follows, and all the son, a beauty, products Lloyd, show up that the person is holding in will mention just quickly and then somehow she wants to buy it all of a sudden will in that's you, that's a super effective thing: that's happened ever since we were children, toys, ripe and then there's rewrite now for a lot of facebook, gods, if you ever Facebook account. You have probably encountered the following cartoonish situation: you have, let's Dave made a big purchase, you have purchased a new car. This is my new Toyota Corolla

that information bounces around backstage, where you can't see in them boom. You the sudden are inundated with ads for toiled accrual at silly, and it makes no sense if exactly but that's what happens. You know they're, like you know what this person just bought a vote for the first time, probably once five, more boats. Why not like a boat shammy, though, are like a boat trailer you know what I not like: Vena get a little smarter and granular with it, because you re every time I get you even if, like I've, looked at a product on a site- and maybe I didn't buy it- maybe this is smart It is an industry with ads for that same products that I almost bought that I could see being like guess I mean I could buy,

a king and remind maybe I do needed after over the whole boat with a boat thing, seems like a waste of our algorithms. But if twenty thousand people ignore it and one person says no, what yes is authority, do you think two boats know that's way too high. It's way less, but we know that regardless of the reaction people are seeing this and you don't always have to be on Facebook to see it on average. Those like and share buttons that go across all these website the views across ten million websites daily again estimated, probably a lower end estimation to every sixty seconds on Facebook, five hundred and thousand comments are posted to Ninety three thousand statuses rub dated, and one hundred and thirty six photos are uploaded and one in five page view

in the. U S occurs on Facebook, one in five twenty per cent of every single page view. That is crazy. But how did Facebook get there? How did it start? What what letters to this strange thing. Well, you have to go back to two thousand and four year of our Lord February. Fifth, in fact, it was the in child of a man named Mark Zuckerberg, Marcus Zuckerberg? He and his roommate, you ve all seen the movie we ve all seen movie fantastic move is pretty when we first her there's gonna, be a facebook gloomy, nearly hijack unaware, yeah, there's gonna be dull. I had no idea. There was actually compelling stay behind the creation of this, but yes worker burgundies, Harvard roommate Eduardo Severin. They created this website and it was built after our off of another program. He'd already created called faced man all one word you up

home that one that one was created in two thousand three near prior to it. So face MASH was developed by Zuckerberg. He rode all the software for it He made a website when he was in the second year of college in the So it was set up as this. It's like a harder, not game seen it before on line of, at least around that time, the there is even harder, not dot com. That was a thing you just say. Yes, this person is attractive or no. This person is not attractive and it was entirely female students, DM female students, side by side, and then you devote who was hot and two was not so this house and we should like tender. Basically, you I don't. I don't participate in dating apps and moral smart. Never where was this information stored was it was some kind of leader bored. I thought our member hearing thing, but that was it literally just do it and it goes away a man. I don't know he ends and out of fear

smart, a smash did they did the work, they did store the data and they also at Harvard at the time they had a physical thing. The old a face book knows more than one, and these just had a picture of some one staff alumni or current student and a little blurb of information about them, sort of a who's who kind of thing and so Facebook. The online platform was named after this, because Upper Burg thought they would try to digitizing like look, I can do a better and I could do it in a week and it turns out. He was right because today because we're largest repositories of this sort of information on the planet and euro to your quest I wonder I I wonder if somewhere deep in his own secret files, completely air gap, if Mark Zuckerberg is still going through his heart,

not and thinking here the world for the warehouse, cheese or indeed, was one of those things will renew. Creating a facebook like that you're gathering information and one person or a team of people are creating that physical book without information right what Hocker realized is that people would voluntarily insert their own blurbs and then add picture and then videos and then check in the places and say where I've been. We was under something pretty crazy, that's kind of deep in the heart of all of us to very true but very true, and where would you now that's why we're getting into this later? But it's hard to accuse people of stealing your data when you give it so willingly. Yet it's that I think the common human treat we're talking about a narcissist is look at me, I'd s right, which we, if we suffer from his species, but also compels us.

Cc's to do some amazing things and now what happens? What happens when one company has all of this information at its fingertips fast forward way past two thousand four, but not as far as you would think and enter Cambridge analytical right. This company, Cambridge Analytical, which I knew precious little Until now, the kerfuffle of late was darted in twenty thirteen, the company markets more and marketed in markets continues to mark himself. A source of consumer research, targeted, Avc, easing and other. Data related services to both political and corporate clients. So now, in short, there they're kind of mining data and crunching the numbers running it Accordingly, our times it was launched with fifteen million dollars of seed money backing money by bill in a republican donor, Robert Mercer, an Steve Bannon, O Stephen

I'm familiar Stevie be yes. The advisor for Thee from campaign and later for time and adviser to the Trump Administration now bitter enemy also was the kind of power I'm the throne of bright Bart them very divisive right wing website, and everything was going along swimmingly until that is in March of twenty eighteen, when the house of cards began to tumble and we will sort through the debris when we return from a quick sponsor break. This episode of stuff. They don't want you to know, is brought to you by native hey, you guys. I am since you're. Looking at my wife's native deodorant that she loves it. Is Africa caught and White peach she uses this thing every day, she's tried a tie, of different deodorants, and this is the only one that she says works for her, because its aluminum free, it's baking, soda free

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twenty eighteen reports from the guardian and the new times revealed that Cambridge Analytical again a data analysis firm that have worked with president trumps campaign at harvested the personal information of quote around fifty million facebook users without permission, whether that's permission from Facebook, whether that's permission from the users fat like they were ask this revelation: came from a whistle blower named Christopher Wily W. Why L I e, who states that he helped build the firm and worked there until twenty fourteen? The way this worked as that Cambridge Analytical retrieve the data from an outfit called global science, research or GS are a company owned by University of Cambridge professor Alexandre Coggan, yeah and he collected all this data and twenty thirteen. He used a psycho graphic personality test APP and it was called

This is your digital life. All one word just this is your digital, there were other around three hundred thousand people who and I who actually like God, this up stalled it and then they gave it permission to collect their personal information from Facebook. Including the city where they set up the profile, the content they liked The information about their friends now this this important part it it. You gave it to collect information about your friends so that hundred thousand people jumped up exponential So you do when you hear about, like Recon Data, recall that law enforcement agencies are yet be. I do where you can know something about who people interact with that actually knowing who they are kind of what you can see the web of communications and starts to you're, really clear picture. Even without knowing the specifics about who's in the chain,

Do you can do that with a white pages? Terrorism was aiming. They with this is why they literally have like all the information is leads. Does no no end to the kind of stuff you could learn about people with this kind access right, yeah, oh, so this is what happens. You get three thousand three hundred thousand people to bite on the hook there, and all of a sudden you ve got the information on over fifty million people. At the time. That's where we estimate exactly and in the other, the other sticky problem with this without going too far into big data can recommend that you check out our earlier episode on it. If you would like to learn from fright things about target, I hope you find it on our website, I one one of the sticky insidious things about. This is what Facebook would refer to as frictionless sharing ray. It's a very it's very fluffy, euphemistic phrase for the process that no and men are describing here and it

has expanded like that, a six degrees of Kevin Bacon Game, although using they're using their image Asian that they had aggregated Facebook later found, people are more like three and a half degrees separated from each other, including maybe and bacon and other it's an average happen if you like have met a new random person on Facebook or even that before them a facebook and realised that you have several mutual friends. Even if there's somebody from like another state, I mean like it's not that far fetched the web starts to shrink, or at least the access to it and other more. You think about this, these connections NEA absolutely and on the issue more seventeen. This all goes public right. The next day Facebook bans Cambridge Analytical and they ban its power

company and then they ban Coggan himself. They also on the same day, Ban Christopher Wily, the whistle blower near a march. Nineteen Facebook stock plummets takes nosedive On the same day, Congress starts to stick around Senator Edward Marcie from Massachusetts, says: hey, we a wholesome hearings against these facebooking Cambridge Analytic, jokers Emperor paraphrasing and specifically here to the ranking members of the Senate Committee on Commerce, at Senator John Thumb, and since bill. Nelson of South Dakota Florida, respectively and Marcie, says we need to move quickly to hold hearings since Facebook is required to quote obtain explicit permission before sharing data about its users. Facebook holds an emergency meeting. They also

this is enjoyable, they also for everyone at the meeting, their version of in all hands. They have a pole for the employees and the swale. You think Zuckerberg doesn't say anything about this for three days since not until March twenty first, that he addresses it with a post, honest facebook account go to respect the consistency and he says what happens is his responsibility, but there are changes made to the platform that will prevent it from happening again. He proposes a three step plan going forward, investigate third party apps, restrict developers as to user data on the whole and give users tools to see what information of theirs is being shared, so benefited and install my digital life with what was my data breached, their quite possibly em

who gave splain why that is. There's this thing, we're in the rules of Facebook, if you're in advertiser- and you are collecting data in this way. It says that you can as the developer of an app take like glean the information of friends of the peace. All you have actually installed Europe or whatever. However, you have to use that data in a very limited way, and all to improve your app there. You're using you can actually sell that data to a third party, or use data, for any other reason that that was the original, like rules that were set right and then is to clarify. That's exactly why they made that change where the third parties don't have quite Carte blanche. Access to

your friends data only to yours directly, as you have opted in, to write that third parties has again it's restricted. That's a lot like not that's a lot like flame retardant or water resistant. It's not proof! Now, water. If we improve it's, not it's still not ban the other, still a fire, and this is where some dicey things are happening March. Twenty second, this happens so quickly March. Twenty second President Donald Trump goes on twitter or which is his social media of choice, and he appears to boast about a partnership with Cambridge. Annelida, he doesn't name them, but he says people are no longer claiming his use of social media was less robust than Clinton, that being Hillary Clinton during the twenty sixteen campaign in election and while he does it outright name them? The timing suggest that he was talking about Cambridge Analytic

ITALY that both he makes where he says I don't pay my taxes, so I'm smart is kind of like him saying I figured out how to exploit social media, so I'm smart, I guess you know I don't I don't follow, is tweets very closely. It is this. What is it? Don't you think it's sort of an odd thing to say given? how controversial the stuff has been for him to come out and say that sure, if he wasn't kind of trying to win, Kate himself in somewhere, say that, like I, don't you seem a little boastful to me? It's not it's puzzling. Indeed, yeah. He did areas clearly a boast Large twenty third Elon Musk, our modern Tony star, our modern Tesla. I guess he would want us to say I get spooked and Delete says space ex account. He deletes a Tesla account Zuckerberg is invited on the same day to testifying for the house, Reps House representatives, many of whom will go on to thoroughly embarrass me house

there are a lack of knowledge regarding social media platforms, and technology in general is a really good mean where it was like a screen shot of available that we're quizzing him and it just had like fifty spy, Air search bars like stacked up on top of cells that can their browser. You don't like those ones that, like automatically install and you can't get rid of them, will they can't add bitters to fill their whole screen. Oh yeah, I was is vicissitudes its worth in the annexes, or his ears the whole everything that we're not even in a get into too deeply. In this episode, but but some of the sum of the ways that Cambridge Analytical was using this data included influencing, if not just the american President presidential election, the entire breaks it situation. Yes, It is true that is true, and this is one of em they're UK based company to Cambridge. So this is the primary impetus for all.

Sir from Britain's information commissioners offers getting involved. Their data watchdog group. So they read the offices at Cambridge Annelida in London. They take their time and there they have seven hours. I heard it in pr peace where someone like was able to get their kind of dossier there, their digital genome guy. Yet the Cambridge Analytical assembled about them, particularly- and it's not most alarming kind of sounding stuff that you might imagine it's like you what you are you what party or you more likely to identify where fino unrepresented that kind of stuff. Zuckerberg, even in his testimony said this is all stuff. People would share openly themselves so that in an attempt to absolve him. So I was wondering what you guys think like how was this difference cat, how it? What makes this so different. I were a walk through the rest of the time line and get to the testimony here, because that is a good question, so the or

This issue in the Information commissioner's office was given the search war by the high court judge to determine whether the group tampered with breaks it as much as you just brought up, and they are currently still analyzing, considering the evidence ripe on March twenty fifth Zuckerberg who has become at this point known as the Zack? A lot of online forums takes out a full age, add and multiple UK. U S papers, it's it's. A profound apology repeats is three step plan. The F You see the next day confirms that their investigating facebook for these privacy practices on the twenty seventh Zuckerberg refuses meet with british law makers. He sends one of his employees, but he does agree to me with: U S Congress and while Britain is investigating this Wily that whistleblower from earlier tells parliament. The facebook uses microphones to improve that targeting which we have talked about before on the show. Yes, what do you guys think? Do you think?

real. Thank you mean like on your phone yea. I have certainly been. We all have, I think, had a situation. We were chatting about something and then got so with an ad about it, the next day or later on me, I yeah, I think its highly plausible I am utterly convinced, even though I have seen absolute, like damning evidence line, convinced I ain't. You know we have to ask ourselves at what threshold? Can the sheer number of anecdotes in first hand, experiences be accepted as, as you said, Matt damning evidence? I think we're close to that threshold. There's there's something we should fast forward to an April fourth buried in a blog post about changes. Facebook is making to quote clarify its terms of service. Like that clarify. Yeah correct. The company casually increases the number of people affected by Cambridge Analytic is efforts from fifty million to eighty seven million. Ok, it's a couple more

just a few just a few dollars. Yes, all almost half again these are abuser individuals. There were compromised right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they do go out of their way to see people not profiles, because I think they're PR team is working around the clock to humanize lady lookin Zuckerberg. Do you think called out. Like a lot of that, we talked about fake profiles and Botz and stuff I mean how do we know the number like how many, A number of you think could be fake profiles and my guy now, do you remember the number of fake profiles from the top? No, it was. How was I eighty three million so these are all fake, no they're, not all fake. They just is a proportion. I'm sorry, I just don't think I'll be hilarious if they only got fake profile would be you know what that would be. A relief for Everyone involved, except for the bought masters, oh yeah, but they continue to their credit. Facebook suspends two more companies doing similar stuff, one called q view.

And one called aggregate, I q, and then they start informing users who are affected by the breach and folks here. Listening to this today, the odd are. You probably have some sort of Facebook profile and if you have some sort of Facebook profile, the odds are, not insanely low? It's! It's not super likely, but it's it's quite possible that you open your facebook one day and you saw a notice that says that you may have been affected by this, because either you or a friend used the app. This is your digital life. This is your digital life s eyes like a soap opera or something fairly future man or a black mirror episode right. Ebby Goodwin area should pocket that I get that I saw the

here too, will also harvested not just the what we will colleague the meadow data connections, the time of login the time spent somewhere, but they ve. Also hers, the content, private messages, because there were harvested again his neck at dark to me. Really creepy, the other cinemas scraped NEA of her that allow yet so they said, a small number of people who logged into this is your digital life, all shared their news, feed timeline, posting messages which may have included posed the messages from you. That's, according to Cambridge Athletic and Facebook. They also gained access to information from the friends of the Alps users and it's still

honestly, is not clear how many users were affected. What's like a disease, it's like its can contract it from others. It's a vector from contact and astute listeners. You noticed earlier that Mark Zuckerberg himself refused to go to Britain law makers, but did consent to go to? U S law makers and we taking this around a little bit off here. Why? Why do you think that is all I mean he spent two days giving testimony to to the United States lawmakers that sounds so much better when you get when you call them law makers instead of Justino, the House or Congress great, but anyway yeah, you spent two days there and he had much of a problem at all fielding questions, like you, said, Ben from people who had been

LEO Grasp on what an online advertising is or what an app actually is, or how data data transfers occur and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that british lawmakers do more so than than american, lawmakers or They know how to dig deep and and put people's feet to the fire, maybe a little bit more than we do. Well. I guess it's a bit of a soft ball kindness, Jewish O agreed yang- and this goes into maybe journalistic culture too, because BBC reporters are generally thought to be harder hitting as journalists I ve got a short distance. The couple a choice. Questions NOS makers asked Mark Zuckerberg. Would you like to hear some? Yes, please leave some cake Senator Lindsey, Graham from South Carolina asked Mark Zuckerberg is twit the same is what you do

in the gray I'm Lindsey Grandpa? Am I right of Florida Senator bill? Nelson is fond of a particular type of chocolate. Any mention that fact to some facebook, friends facing ads for that chocolate. So he said what, if I dont want to receive ads for chocolate amen. Senator Roy Blunt from Missouri says my son is located Instagram, so he'd want to be sure. I mentioned him. While I was here with you David. A question can act. It's going to be signed this. Does that mean for me mark Zuckerberg for my grandson, Yemen? Good luck! how much more this is comically softball again, like I mean, You know: there's probably a committee that, like knows how the internet works Why are the FCC involve? I don't know I just did. It just seems very like what's the word tomorrow,

I am sure you know real make Leon action like a lot like allow the theatre in you can. You can read in depth some of these So these questions Matt? You really took the really took the took one for the team, because you watch dog: I did I started watching the first day in. Lost. After about forty minutes, I just couldn't came noise and I just shut it now. Can you do an impression of Zuckerberg before the team, because you watch the kind of summing up some of the major parts, and I heard say of this is a quote. So I guess I'll try here. We didn't take a broad enough view:

responsibility, and that was a big mistake and it was my mistake and I'm sorry, I started Facebook. I run it and I'm responsible for what happens here and I swear. I am human benefits. I swear Hallo friend It just did the responses that were given to a lot of the major things, as you can expect, since he's under oath. He is he's on the surface of everything, is on the surface to seems pretty surface in general and I don't know- I don't know much about dessert men. I feel like going to talk about the ivy. I have this of envy, AEGIS about how young in success and really, you think, he's happy that I think feel really isolated in and out. More money, more problems and he's just trying to connect the world will mark if

You would like the harp on our show in the future, for an interview or, if you just need some actual friends too, maybe go bowling with you or something. Let us now hit us up on Facebook, where we are conspiracy- it s just so I will say one last thing. Yet there is one one, even though kind of a low blow shot, Durban. At one point of all, the Sun ass Mark Zuckerberg what hotel he was staying at his. I won't. So what what hotel you? staying at while you're here. Would you be comfortable revealing that information exactly, and you know mark of course, as I know absolutely not because again all of you permission sharing here they were talking about, is voluntary, yep and, as a point he doesn't point is listing argument, because a lot of this is based on the inhale problems of for media, but as a contract that we all sign on four and we

except the trade off you now, Surely we all took the time to read the terms of agreement in full now been? I would think it's possible mind you possible that you, you have It is quite possible, but one thing that is impossible for us to do now is to pretend that this is not an ongoing thing or pretend that there's a fool number of full solid number of people that we know have been impact it. We can predict the future, but what we can do is explore the troubling implications after that is a word from our sponsor. Hey, I'm Andy! If you don't know me, it's probably because I'm not famous, but I did start immense grooming company called Harry's. The idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience. I had buying razor blades. Most brands were overpriced

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Rex theories and who completely happy when put his hands up and say no foul, no foul with Geico it's easy switch and save on car insurance. No, the vacant. Ankle sprang because you're absolutely exhausted, so We can save with Geiger it's almost better than sports use where it gets crazy. This granted, even though the three of us our hilarious, sounds, sounds kind of dry, you're learning, but that's because we're at beginning of a much longer story in a much larger revelation. It's a story! That's been going on untold, silently for you, since shortly after Facebook was opened, anyone who wanted to law again and while those investigation Are ongoing, it's safe to say more more unpleasant discoveries linger

on the horizon waiting to be discovered. One of the first questions is or what operations are occurring at this point. We don't know not very few people actually no links just before we helped in the studio today, a few hours ago. It was reviewed The Cambridge Analytical was planning to launch its own crypto currency. Yet say they want to raise money, though, that they only want to raise money to pay for the creation of a system to help people store and sell their online personal data to advertisers. Oh come on, true story called Dragon coin after a famous gambler in Macao. But I fully agree that, like, while in aggregate on the whole, our data is worth a lot. My data is not worth a lot year. Data is not worth a lot. I couldn't sell my data and that it may

Maybe I'm correct me: if I'm wrong, although their using the thing is, they were hoping to build a system that would combat the same kind of activities: did the idea being that who knows better how to build a hen house than the fox who got fat? Ok, that's interesting! Guy. Now you're say almost like a password wallet or suddenly there like a vault, that you can keep your stuff under wraps, which would also be supervised by Cambridge Analytic and their parent company there's. This is another question which is: is it a bad? What gives The effort for this was overseen by their former ceo, the disgraced chief exam it is a guy named Alexander Nix. He was forcibly. Company in March of this year because he was caught on tape bragging about his companies, approached the political work in other countries across the world, including using cheap,

companies and strategies to entrap opponents, the air they leave famously state, and this is Cambridge themselves that their database contains over five thousand out of points nearly every american consumer, and if you do some due diligence like Knoll did, then you will see that a lot of it seems kind of innocuous authorised I'm an early. I forgot jumping the gun a little bit and dogma that in Pr Pisa where a gentleman was able to obtain his Cambridge analytic profile. Let's call it s a dossier and he was pretty sure that it was an all of it, because it certainly wasn't that five thousand points, but it was you know, a pretty basic little collect data points that, yes, you could have we glean from this kind of trolling someone's feed their there their page. You now they're wall, all colleagues, his personal republican or Democrat you know most likely. Are they

what kind of income bracket or they- and this is our stuff. You can kind of figure out by looking at pictures and seeing the kinds of such people actually post about themselves already, but then much fewer than five thousand and he was pretty sure that he didn't he eat they. They weren't going to give him all five thousand and you'll be stuff. I love the point you make about a lot of this stuff being things that you were, I could find just by looking at someone's page without even being their facebook. For. What's not mice pointed Zuckerberg point here he said that to U S lawmakers. I was defence rain- Maybe- and that's why I was released question that you raise ban. Is it? Bad and I want I want to know, what's the difference between the stuff we share and what Cambridge Analytica is doing with this stuff, they're harvesting from us? Yes, okay, it be arms murky and dangerous when it goes into political influence, so Cambridge

and a did, use this information, this data to influence elections, Matthew Us Caskey ACT. Bridge analytical. We break up our data into three buckets: political, commercial and first party. Work with several of the main voter file providers, depending on the preference of our clients to access vote, history and voter proof, miles and then the couple that, with top commercial data providers for on a licensing basis that stuff, like general demographics, geographical purchase, history, interest and so on, they get or indeed, project data internal surveys, research, what they call exclusive data relationships, which, as you know in this kind of conversation, the most now as a phrase, is usually hiding the strangest stakes and data collection through direct response projects, which is actually asking people what they think

some blowers notches wily alleged that Cambridge worked with Steve Bannon to sway the vote, starting as far back as twenty fourteen, and this is not really a big deal- does seem, it's not unique there, it every body we ever meet is going to try to persuade us to do something without falling into relativism. Riley. The three of us are pretty opinionated people and we're trying to persuades each others. All the time. Usually we agree, but if it's a larger company that doesn't make that impulse itself in here, we nefarious until we get to what Nix actually said yeah. He was secretly record being a bit of a braggadocio a break. Do shall I try to

Greece a line in their somehow he was bragging about how his firm Cambridge Analytical was largely responsible for the election of Donald Trump. As president of the United States, he described all kinds of questionable practices that did they use who influence foreign elections of because member. This is a british firm their influencing the american election, but why Russia was influencing the election. You might say: oh well, maybe it was also are free. Over. In Britain, I mean look at what I say. I pulled up this press release from Cambridge analytical website and they they lay out a few points here One. No laws were broken: Cambridge it would not have Facebook to Cambridge Analytical did not use the data or any derivatives of this data. In the. U S, presidential election three came agenda. Did not work at all on the brakes. It referendum for her wily is not a whistle. Blower goes on well! Well,

in this secret recording of Alexander next, the former chief negative of Cambridge Analytical he said that his did all the research analytics and targeting of voters for trumps Digital in tv campaigns. He was recorded, saying that he also said that he had met personally met trump when it was the candidate many times and that they deployed there. Tricks, including all school espionage, stuff like honey traps, setting someone up of the sex workers, prostitute, fake news campaigns, fake bribery scandals, operations with ex spies and espionage agents to swing election campaigns, and this was this- was recorded by an underground reporter working for the observer, what they did is they who is a member of a wealthy family from Sri Lanka seeking political influence? and then, when the rapporteur, as this wealthy Sri lankan-

person when they asked. If Cambridge Analytic, I could offer investigations into damaging secrets of rivals digging up. Their essentially Nick said that Cambridge worked with former spy eyes from Britain and Israel to look for dirt and said they were doing it as they were speaking. He also volunteered that his team was ready to go for other than just a keyboard investigation. Like I've, got one guy, he's master disguise. We can send him, he can be, Anybody body psych. Also we can entrap people with some sex workers, bring a few Ukrainians with us. Trip. If you know what I mean ever P p party that was publication, something something untoward right, and I then he said that we do keep digging his interesting, but no, it can be equally effective, just go in and speak to the incumbent and offer them a deal. That's too good to be true and make sure that video of it is recorded wow. Hence the dirty tricks

and also ok. So, according to wily the whistle blower, he says, quote we exploded Books, a harvest, millions of people's profiles in built models to exploit what we knew about them and target their inner demons. That was the basis the entire company was built on alleged whistle. Lower brow. Oh yeah, ok guys will we have the only ever gonna get alleged heavy here, allegedly heavy? That's not a bad name for an album of some sort. She pathetic allegedly having what is its heavy. Allegedly. I feel like there's a guy You're gonna get a concept problem here now to this, but the question remains like what is what is wrong with this in a legal sense if we have signed a contract essentially if we have assented to having this data traded in exchange for using this free? Sir

then. What's what's the big hubbub. The problem here is that it was used with new define Facebook, users and Facebook really does not want this to be characterized as a data breach for a number of reasons, one of which is a majority of american states, have laws requiring notification, indifferent cases of data breaches, including California, where Miss Book is based in areas of emails from your bank herb target or something saying hey. You were part of a bit. Jill Bundle of a trillion. Users may or may not have had your information compromise. You'd, probably change your password Didn't you said that you have the goodness of their heart? Did they know no, there's a lot of sea way there and then, being a family show that stands for cover your actions or Aardvark cover your aardvark, which I like better actually end. The ultimate goal of coke and who worked at

the university Saint Petersburg by the way and receive russian Grant money was not just to collect this in building an anonymous database, He was working with Cambridge Analytical to build a database of identified profiles, whether we call matched profiles they started with the aim of making two million match profiles, meaning tied to electoral register. In eleven states, with room to expand, much further, ultimately aiming to get all fifty states to what end to to them targeted messages about candidates, very specific personalized, targeted message so like if you're working for your working,

were the Republican Party or something that your client right and you want to split a vote. I you could say: well here's some fake news about Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton or something or you could also put out some faker, embarrassing news about a republican rival and say: oh Senator TED Cruises, stealing PETE from kids on Easter Sunday now and you can do with facebook- add like you could buy a facebook adds by the only targets, one human person ray, and I think the thing that came from this in terms of Facebook. Changing their guidelines. They're gonna, be so. They say: they're gonna be much more strict about selling political advertisements that they're going to be much more like knowing, where the

This is coming from or something ray I hear this year and that's it. That's a tough question too, because it is very easy to vilify Facebook now, but there's it similar to the problem with Youtube like. How can you too, hatch every falling sparrow of inappropriate stuff people post the wild West, then I bet you it's gonna come out in this that Facebook didn't really break the law not necessarily true of Cambridge Analytical, but it doesn't seem like it's like a vacancy. Why would you do something if you're not? I fear that there's no monetary rub consequence in place. Doing it. You know aiming as regulations are all about right, so it, but you also don't know how to make regulation until that the case comes up its needed, and I think that how to get a seat at now, but I do think that Facebook probably didn't break the law. It's interesting because you legislation lag so far behind technological innovation, which we talked about in the show for four

I'm listeners, but there's something else, a big implication that a lot of people are just now becoming aware of in a real spooky when the at that might surprise some folks- and that is the question. Ok, let's say I don't have a facebook profile of say I've. Ever logged on Facebook or Instagram. I know their fingers on the same hand in twitter or whatever, and I did in any event mess with Myspace or Friendster. How much could facebook? No, help me well, they know a whole heck of a lot because of things that are called shadow profiles. Shadow profiles by literally every one that Facebook, yes, so late working to call them show proof because, as an awesome sounding ominous thing here, you you, I am never started. Facebook right, you know open it up now, once not a single time, but guess what I hate books and faces bright.

I'm with you brother, I'm off the grid. Matt are you are after great, but you ve got this friend the works over at the piglet quickly. Here's the problem. She loves Facebook she's on it all the time, right, and you know you guys you're just Paso your texting every once in a while. I am on my flip phone. Oh yeah, you're on your foot phone, but she's got that sweet, Iphone, five and you know she's on Facebook with her app that could be a problem and then she may be saves your number and labels you as a hot Mattie How many inner contacts? That's that's the off the grid, than I am? Minimum Quigley Wigley, Politically we can repair Maria and so yes, then the then Facebook has that piece of information. And then, let's see because you allow Facebook to see your contact yes and

Nepal, your interaction or your the amount of trouble you're willing to go to its very easy for Facebook to do that. In some cases you cannot void and you do have to opt in for that. Though you noticed any acts like that as soon as you do and action on that at the requires it to have access to your camera, have access to your microphone or have access to your contacts. A little pop up comes up, and you have to say yes- and you know it's a permission thing, but I guess once you ve done that that's just For you, it's not for those around you. Well, it's also. If you use an Iphone, it's gonna be a tad bit better about that in it, the blue, where can be put in by a provider. I see that in that blue, where may be such that you would have to perform a process

rooting, your phone to actually get rid of that you mean on an android link on an end or because of you. I shall always heard that pcs are more susceptible to spyware and things. I guess that's true the funds as well yeah yeah. I can easily see that solicitor Witless just quickly jump into why Facebook hates that term shadow- of a white do they, who will, because it sounds like their straight on making these hidden profile somewhere on your phone or your app or maybe just in Facebook, at large profiles of people's people. In your contacts list that don't have a facebook profile and they say that's not what they're doing it does. Do that. It ends Winnie thirteen. Facebook said it discovered in fixed, a quorum quote bog, The bug was that when a user downloaded their Facebook file, which you can still do today and I'll, give you all the infirmary,

should they say they have on you, it will give you all. The early information you're allowed to see they have on you all your likes comments and Exedra all your messages. The thing was that in twenty thirteen, this quote unquote bug included not just people's visible contact information for their friends, but also their friends, shadow contact information, so they were seen stuff that they weren't supposed to see in the problem with the bug for Facebook was not that all of this stuff was lumped together. It was that it had shown people that it existed so the extent of the connections that built around every user- was supposed to only be visible to Facebook near and the they admit that this is in their phrases. Getting information from a friend or someone, you know or might know. But what does that mean? That means anyone. Any point who might

somehow labelled your phone number, your email or even your physical try not to curse you're. Even your physical address will be added to that that Those agglomeration information- that is you. So whether it's the Piggly wigley hot matter Whether it's an old, I email address from college that a friend of yours has you know like it's like hot, not marry at Eugene DIY to you. It was Obadiah. Fourteen AOL, I knew it was him day, Donald and Well Obadiah. This thought he looked like an open the voice of its Viana do as were soldiers, so this means that the average user is much more exposed than they were led to believe and facebooks position. Is that mistakes habit?

will be improved and I think no, you make a really interesting point in prediction here will turn out to be something illegal you laws exist, for this sort of situation seems like right now. Not many do is This is a case that will lie to change. We are already seeing it, but you know big big changes. The tech companies will have to and it also makes you wonder- is this going to affect user experience in a way that is unpleasant? because I think it might be. I think some of the things that we take for granted is on an open internet or on like an app like Facebook are largely because of the lack of barriers in some of these kinds of things, and we made

spined ourselves being inconvenience because of fall out from the story right I mean that's it. That's a good. That's a good point integrate perspective to raise because, as we know, history proves that privacy, as a concept, is a relatively recent phenomenon know the idea of privacy. As we understand it did not exist in central. Past and it may well not exist by the end of this entrance by the end of by the end of this next decade, start like two thousand and twenty eight. But the other thing is the current lay of the land. Folks The thing is that, as far as Facebook is concerned, none of that information that other people have about. You counts as your information shadow information. Yet it belongs to the people uploaded it.

There are the only ones with any control over it. That's why, for instance, you can remove a tag of yourself on a photograph right. This is not shadow stuff. This is public profile stuff. You can move a tag of yourself in a photograph, but if you want the photograph to be taken down, you have to get the person who put it up to take it. This is dangerous stuff, and this is why, even though its illegal. This is why I could put people real danger. Now someone cannot have there Dennis known yeah like an undercover cop, for instance, or let's see a prosecutor for criminal Code, Is anybody in law enforcement? Anybody alarm for solicit people have lives working in was. LEO and allow the U S here, but some of those working in the sex trade are shouting and you can find these.

Areas stories of people who deleted their facebook, because you were in a profession like this- and they got the scary thing that can happen which is someone they knew, maybe even someone they like put away in jail or something pops up on the people. You may know list or wild. For instance, there was their little. Things are just twilight, zone moments like you'll, hear story about someone who works as a reception is that an office meet somebody for the second time and they call them by their nickname in their second. Relation, because they popped up on their facebook list or what, if you or a therapist, and your clients start popping up on each but persons Facebook list. This is

This is dangerous stuff, especially when we know what we're getting to is, regardless of the intent, what we're getting to an action. It is a violation of confidentiality, it's a dangerous thing, but then we have to ask that keep going back to the question you asked know how can government, these international entities like this. Should they even be trying? You know it like the EU, has taken this more seriously than the U S, but there's pretty compelling evidence that this is not in any way new website to our alphabet in Google, take about the CIA and Facebook, Cambridge Analytical its use

It's a gimme, it's a home run. If we, if we were intelligence agencies or if we were these businesses, we would feel like it was foolish not to be doing this agreed. It feels like there needs to be some kind of United Nations style thing. Just four digit. All matters for four international digital matters, something really good point, something where it's like. I'm an international body that can make decisions and say anything that occurs on networks that go across what lines of of states and countries they it. You have. Your are behold into our group. I We set it up and then immediately neuter the heck out of here. I was given a regulation stream it, The EU needs we run by a group of eight eyes to pause. I noticed a runaway eyes: robot he's got five to em.

Mark Zuckerberg will be the head. Oh boy, Consumers means where they lay panting my play: God Data from STAR Trek. Yes, it's really good and is eagerly early work tell ya I, but I M kind of serious with people. The elder actually know what they're talking about and understand, attack cs. I mean I think there should be a body that at least can enforce regulation. Will there are several there's a wealth of bodies in the? U S and abroad that were built with that purpose. But of course, as you mentioned before are a little closer to the entities and institutions and industries that they are supposed to oversee here, which was question what what happens next. Is this gonna be a a flash in the PAN News wise? Will the new cycle move on to it? thing as the! U and Russia continues to wage war for the pipeline in Syria, The third

move on to a different thing as the: U S and Russia continues to wage war for the pipeline. In Syria, Ansari gonna stay in the headlines. Will we ever knew the full story, the forecast of players, the extent of their involvement will it Will anybody at Facebook be charged with a crime? anybody. Cambridge Annelida did Facebook even commit a crime. You know that that's what I keep going back to cynics in the audience will probably say no guys. If you token, scapegoats will be proffered out for some public pitchforks and political theater and then it'll be business as usual, but the better. Show, but today we have by the way we're on Facebook gay. If you have any thought on Cambridge Analytical and facebooks use of debt of data and data and, however, you say that

no just write to us. You can find us on Facebook we're conspiracy stuff, like really just find us there. Make sure you put any and all identifying information just directly into the common ass cool they now. Ok, but just you know, put more just as much as you possibly yes to your fears, your blood type, things that you worry about. When you walk into an elevator full of strangers, you had a realization. Ever they were looking at some of our breakdowns of legless no ship, and there is a real the huge percentage of our listener ship that is comes up in the data that we get as unknown. Thirty six percent and Ban Mealy was like well, it's probably because our listeners might be more likely than some other shows to use of european yeah. We know what you're doing right now with all your encryption and we applaud it. We think its awesome be a virtual private network rights. Yes, let us know what you think about this woody

about the scandal. Would you, for example, would you be ok with it? If you receive to some sort of compensation other than the use of that platform like if you gotta check every three months or something or they said hey great great job, cares for me in EU history you are perfectly S. Ears were being used to dragon coins whose to dragon coins and a couple embarrassing pictures view for middle school, don't think us you have we like to think and if you just do, does no one side. Your bed is made Just remember, if you know you stop using our services, we do have these pictures and they may or may not end up in the hands of your enemies. He a shame with enemies found out that you keep your head gear, your brace face, did you click like angry or wow? I was

face phase out an I do the heart yeah! That's my free like the heart. So let us know thank you so much as always for train stay tuned as we return with more strange usual, fascinating and at times terrifying stuff. They don't want you you know in the meantime, you can, as we have said, Molly times of this by you can find of Facebook, but hey we're also an instagram which is doing, We also want twitter, you find every episode we've ever done on our website stuff, they don't want you to know com. You can also call us directly. Should the Spirit so move you. We are one thousand eight hundred and thirty, three s. T d, W Y T K got it pale, that's correct! We're not going to give you the numbers. You can figure it out of the fund little puzzle. Just do it.

If you want, you can write some snail mail, two hats on our website somewhere. I m sure relation read that over there it's fine. You can look it up now. Stuff works offices, it Pont City market in Atlanta, George, where we live, come, find us we'll do This be hanging out Paul will agree. The door he'll, probably help you get a beverage. I will assist. You know, I can do some laundry for you while you're here, whatever you need I'll give you a nice shoulder rub it was slow, clap or you know, don't come. And if you don't want any of that, which God knows you can write to us, we are conspiracy that how stuff works, dot com

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