Hey all, but that is just a lorry, is enough just to make sure you know that I got up. Ok if caught carefully blacklist, all black affect network. That's why I felt all my business that shall already known and carefully comical other people's business to its respectable, but messy at the same time, so make sure you fucking listen carefully racked with every Wednesday. That's up debt or the ILO. Radio at Apple block has always, above you, git, shoebox, growing up near Lancaster, South Carolina. I knew it as the home town for black man named Jim Duncan, became a super. Oh here Y know my new podcast return man. I discover that his death still makes no sense, the story was my brother. Took a gun off in charge of an air must be well humbly. Swayed stated the purse child scared to say anything,

listen to return men on the eye. Aren't radio apple pie, gas or wherever you get your by guess why I've gotta go yes, some of the classic episodes we have coming up or weirdly Presi it's another. This would this wins a deep cut about alternative history because bat, nor as as you lumber, some people don't think the middle ages habit. Now they don't. They subscribe to a theory that is known as phantom time and working to talk about it in this episode. Rynason but what if the year is not twenty twenty one right now- and you know so, depending on what calendar you subscribe to, it may or may not be twenty twenty one. So here it is alternative history and you

ufos, two ghosts and government cover ups history's, riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn stuff. They don't want you to know. Everybody welcome to the show on today we're going to look at the history of history and the changes inside, of course, the stuff they don't want, you to know I started out. We are working on this podcast beforehand. I started out Do you have a quotation about history? We mention the falter. Quotation, add nausea. You know Bob Dylan said the time they are changing and that's a pretty good wine, because, as we're going to see history changes, as often as the present apparently of correct, but out of all those quotation,

and say that when the best things I could do at least is just start off with the most basic thing, a definition of history, history, the study of past events, usually human events right now, that's what we, usually mean in the branch of knowledge dealing with this people being an inherently self interested speed, These have always been interested in the past. The stories, ourselves year were storytellers because we're the only animals that record in any way the things that happened previously to us over the old ones. Proven deduce yes, absolutely certain of, because you know where, as we find, the first history we're all histories right. The just told I would if I was a person back in the day in something really

sure thing happening to me involving a caribou end of a broken spear or something. I would want to express that to my friends, because I was really fun in cool thing. That happened. I just tell him or get worse There could also be a song in that song. Someone has the lineage from which they derive- you know oh yeah, word tale of gods and creation yeah exactly and a lot of these things we're mythical brain they were real structural. In one way or another. In some cases, very very old histories contain ah values of a culture right and history, often back at this. in time when I was a world tradition was one again to game of telephone. Now for our younger listeners. Let's go ahead, say with the game of telephone Ok, so they gave a telephone would be if there are a bunch of us sitting in a circle and we stood

it with what say myself light old of small. or maybe even just a sentence or two and then I would whispered in the ear of the person to my let's say, left and then that would continue around. Until I got back to me, yeah Prior Press, a person sitting to my right and then whatever that person they would have to recite whatever it is it. They heard and the change that occurs as it goes around the circle. That is, the game of TAT right, yet nobody really wins the game of telephone. Often too, I suspected that there were people throw in a ranch in their purpose, flee, saying something completely different were trying to make it daddy now. Isn't it we're? The we just explain tell us in their might actually be someone listening that had never heard of that before you make it happen, but I want to be honest. I was one of those guys who it euro, when I was in first or second grade our totally

switch up the though we heard earlier and then looked at my left and right when when they reveal the wrong message classic bowling, I learned a lot. I become a little bit of a better pay but the game of telling own is instructive. It's a good framework for us to look at the history of history. As you sat right one thing that became known as the first critical work of history was written down was called in a burst of creativity, the history Greece is by the sir. This cat named Heroditus threaten ah well using its full errors right, but it's better than nothing, and this whole thing about sores, being all errors rife with exaggerations outright fabric. since in everything that was

the rule and save the exception for very, though very, very, very long time we have the people writing. These histories were allotted time very closely. Knit two: the power structures the time. No matter what kind of power structure you have, celebrated as a lot of times an attempt to make that guy or that group looked me. A little better than me. actually were or or a little bit worse. So exactly that's. Why that's why we get all these strange outlandish stories that seem to make no since at the Thai right, oh, for instance, the old Conor that holy and was a really short nude there were slightly differing measuring systems, but also as a little bit of propaganda, yeas fairly short, but now with an average height for that time or the lurid tales SAM

a pornographic tales that some european writers would spin about the new world. And they would say: oh yeah, hey Ladys, love me in South America, which isn't really true, because, as we know they were, they were not there. Two. They were not there to be friendly. So, yes, so basically lot of times we think of history, as just this, this known a thing that occurred or known set of things at occurred and just how it is that's what happened on that date now we know behind it We find more and more that it's more of this weird amorphous conversation of of events that just continues Then you can history. gives changed pass the long long ago, past history gets changed all the time. Even now. Air like that

as happened recently about whether the brontosaurus is a dinosaur ass, a tough one. For me when I know man I know, but I, but I love that. I love that you make that comparison, because yet given voice its cause Lee interrupting each other and any thing Norma thing. The virtually anything could be up for grabs if evidence that contradicts our accepted view comes in and This is not by any means, a new thing, and it's not, any means and outdated practice listeners I assure you, regardless of what country you are in your country's history text books are in power in disagreement with at least several other countries. Textbooks Now that's just the nature of the world. North Korea's account of the war is going to be way way. Direct in Paris and even the Republic of Korea, or

the United States, of course, especially if you get big. Eventually, wars like Rome were to join the differences in my God, you're saying something while about Japan China Pollyanna earlier conversation of their accounts were were too are usually different right and create political actions today are used is now left for political tensions. Of course it's no surprise to anyone that Middle eastern textbooks disagree on quite a few things and I don't mean just the status of countries, Israel or, though the role of the Europe or the United States and colonization and overthrowing governments, but also, religious matters she asked me and so on

I don't have the means currently to read textbooks therein in arabic, breathing I'd love to see the. I guess, the history of the Crusades and that time my love to see what the other, what the other side of that story says. Yeah and russian textbooks also have a difference in comparison to the rest of Europe. So so, even now, even now, what we are saying is that historians across the world, or countries across the world don't agree with each other about what? actually happened, and why we are where we are today. This leads us to the evolution. Of historical studies. I or the big question is this revisionist history we're talking about, or is it pseudo history pseudo his that is a head completely made up, is that what pseudo is

Implying, well it say: yes, you rose implying that it is history that it's a tall tail disguised as history made by people with an agenda or with a pre existing conclusion right arm, so we saw pseudo. We ve seen pseudo history. be one of the easiest examples which reviews before it is in the early european explores of the african continent when they would say oh well- use the ruins of this great empire. I guess Obviously there was a white people living here, its employees, which is it just shows that, even if it flies the face of all evidence, some people we'll never sacrificed their pet fury for the facts, but then the idea of Europe, in its history is a little bit different. What's can do that.

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talked about the history of changing history already, but really goes back to you too These ancient greek and roman scholars you're looking at Plutarch and Tacitus, and Really people been editing history again, it's kind of what we ve been talking about, but modern historical revision. This thing that we call historical revision that didn't origin until the twentieth century and really was, after the fur major global military conflict. So, though, Furthermore, one the obviously so that's when there are multiple groups who wanted history to reflect a certain you no story, right yeah. This is where we start dealing with something you'll hear about often in pr propaganda today enough the concept of narrative. So how would we depict this conflict DEC later right were the children of the survivors. How did countries becoming

Bob and war contribute to it. As the were starting to fulfil their fingers at the fringes. This gordian knot. Historians realised that it was impossible to be objective because even decide. In what you should leave out or put in becomes itself inherently subjective rights so we know that historical revisionism has to occur because a researcher, and find a glaring inconsistency or something is totally wrong, because let us not forget that for centuries, people were, writing pretty much fictitious stuff? Then it was quoted, as fact so. For instance, we mention a lot of things about: U S, history, there often misunderstood here's one you George Washington, cherry tree, pretty hard core. Create data that he did not chopped down territory.

They couldn't tell a lie: it's funny story, its low that weird that it's about it It's a lie about a guy being honest enough, yet it seems legendary here, national material should already be okay. So here's the bigger thing for me, remember history, or is it just complicated? It super complicated because everybody's identity is connected up to their history, backed our oral history. exactly, and you know nobody wants to look. Terrible you, everyone has a reputation, and that goes there. out two from the individual person to a group of people to entire state and the way you feel about this group or state, the European of yeah and nobody wants to be made a fool or look bad or look like the evil bad guy yet and the cause of this meat tough to navigate.

He's going back to our example about China and Japan. I e the huge our about comfort, women right. You remember that earlier this year, and that is that deals with the horrendous activities of the age. beneath the pure army during its invasion and occupation of. Syria and other parts of China. Now. Are we saying that those were bad guys can totally are we saying that there were good guys and war? No! No! No, if you can, I really don't know if you can see there their clear cut. Good guys are good entities and war But what we can say is that, even now the status of what into these women is very hot, but issue and in Japan. Some politicians lead in this. You could say there cynical or you could say they really believe it, but they leverage this because they don't why,

to be a loss of face for the army or humiliating for the people that are guarded, often is heroes, no enemy, so you have to very careful how you look at that and historic, who revisionism usually does a couple of different things: or has I guess, lenses we could think about. I saw it as a social or theoretical perspective to re, examine the pass through a different framework, so Howard Zens People's history of the island states. Awesome yeah, I really enjoyed it. People One of the criticisms I've heard before is that Howard's and has an agenda for which my answer is no merely as an agenda right, there's also a fact checking perspective that you can take to try and make corrections some of the errors that have been laid into history, sure yeah

and then there's also going back tat negative perspective for people who say hey, stop rope don't fix it, wait digging and all these records about. You know unit, seven, thirty, one whenever why do you? Why do you care what The United States may or may not have done with Nazi scientist after the war. Why are you trying to push you're reality. In that case, your anti nazi agenda knew your aunt. I catholic agenda. If you say that they are right lines helping people escape. That is, that's an interesting perspectives me the idea of going back through another country's history to try and dig up dirt on them. I don't. I don't often think about that unless something from us, by perspective or intelligence perspective. Well, there's it's pretty say that, because the

historical revisionism, worthy attempts to change pass through per project. in that occur? In things like nineteen, eighty, four or in some instances in the days of you says, are these: are things that can really happen and can intentionally and Colonel ninety four of courses fiction, but recently an event in China, the anniversary of the tenement, swear some showed us that historical revisionism in a negative sense is alive. I've and well, and then our video, whatever videos. Recently you did, that Orwell quote the that he who controls the present controls the past. You control the path towards a future and its Garrick. That's true funny!

story. Well, ok, so too, so that up those are three ways in which historical revisionist can approach existing history right historians like her. Further the years immediately after world war, two as the age of historical consensus, because people are trying to build this car set, this means of a unified America. Stronger number one superpower get at me, bro. That kind of stuff didn't last lasted till about the sixties, and then people started Reading, maybe no I don't know I don't know, I didn't tell you exactly what happened to change. I think that parliament will be counter cultural movements and then also the struggle for equality in the United States. really gave lie to some of the more rose, tinted glass kind of stuff.

Sometimes, though revisionist history does deserve its negative connotations right away. I won't yes, because all the associated with highly contentious things. So one of the biggest examples would be Holocaust. Denial is M and we we don't. I mean, at least- I don't just mean- denial of the Holocaust in Europe right because the german Holocaust is all than the one that people think out, but also the armenian Holocaust, Vienna Genocide, which is still the subject of intense revision, is an between Armenia and Turkey to the oh, yeah and you'll have people on either side of that believe wholeheartedly that their correct another side is just lying rights. It is those are both to really tough subjects that I hopefully we're, not gonna, be touching on much her. Ah, you soon right

and also all there's another again all right old way across the world. We can just go back to Japan. and the idea that Japan was bullied into Pearl Harbor by the United States and did the combat as a defensive measure those forced to do this by he'll progressively more prohibitive trade sanctions were embargoes right. This episode is brought you in part by indeed you know there are plenty of unsolved, unexplainable events in this world by the mystery of how to uncover the right candidate for your open job search is now solved when you need to hire great people faster. The answer is indeed, indeed Dot com is the hiring site that helps you. Fine quality candidates instantly with indeed instant match. So you can do the part. You really need faster meeting

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Time now for us to do, one of my reports of the show was weird with it. Nor can we have some music here's where against crazy, historical, revision is the way we're talking about right now, it's very see very reasonable and very boxholder what I find the truth, rape, the dirt people want to revise the concept of history of the human story, so much so that they think we have had gotten tire centuries wrong as it made them up. Yes, the phantom time hypothesis, if the idea that our timeline has some holes in it that way. filled in historically just with some junk. There wasn't true my dear some stories, the idea that the ruling class made some changes make us think that we're in a different year calendar

or at least than we actually are psych your mind. That's her have to say that once upon a time yet the its is strange because the alleged says group of theories are this french jazz? wait named Gina doing Arab and totally mispronouncing. Oh by the way he start he's the one really drop the bead on this first, who believe that art and literature from ancient Greece and Rome where all forgeries the thirteenth century? Well, and allow the stuff we think happened in Greece. In Rome in those empires ever occurred and other people believed him, that's right. I hope a russian mathematician named Anatolia for men go. I He he in the nineteen eighties. He really thought there was something to this, so this guy flamenco he used- you

the thing the statistical analysis to look at texts- and mathematical ideas and and even eyes again in astronomy, asked her Michael observations of the time and he basically showed this guy wasn't very far off and that perhaps the Jesuits had kind of forged up some of this stuff I just european history re, oh, no, no you're, looking at a Greek, three roman history, chinese, arabic, even egyptian history, just made it up, let's well again, with this guy saying re ignite using your pusher There's it there's even another old man the more specific fans and time claim that that you and I talk about- in our original episode. Phantom time, where all I got, I got one thing wrong and this is my bad I'll entity, the video on this

there's something wrong. Everyone should know about all I see in there that North Korea counts there years from the foundation in their country has censure. They count it from other birthday of chemicals So that's a sleigh correctional entity, but you asshole we welcome corrections are really glad whenever we get an opportunity to make the show better. So this where specific phantom time claim that we in our video is, it comes from two Germans, Herebert Gillig and HANS Alaric limits. They think our current calendar was. old with almost three hundred years of utter total. Absolute may help me out here right and they think of the catholic church. Did this for different reasons in and when it was two thousand and twelve they thought was seventeen

things so we're recording and twenty fourteen, which means right now. They think it is two thousand. They think it is seventeen seventeen and don't forget, that's just going by the bulgarian calendar right, yeah, the gregorian calendar, one of one of them These calendars that the people of the world to use right now right. It keeps us on track rail the terribly well, it was adopted in full eighty two, because, primarily because the church wanted to keep Easter in the right place. Oh yeah, that's one of the most important dates the Easter right that you don't have that right than what the heck do. You have right right in previously the church had been, using more was called the Julian calendar system in during this time. Eastward drifted for ten days, ripe

Julian system was simpler, had a leap year, every four years, also less accurate. The guy who ordered this. This is interesting because this really is a little bit a phantom time right. The guy ordered this Pope Gregory Third Tooth one day on October. Fourth, eighteen, eighty two things that are going to October. Fifth, they went straight to October, fit think fifteen eighty people went crazy dude I happy, if, like the Pope, was stealing days from their lives, literally audio similar concert tickets couldn't be refunded. Armenia was just bad. Eggs went bad ass immediately, I mean the play. Doctors was to show up on the ninth good luck. Guesses next year were altered society, Besides, this was something really upset a lot of cattle and, if you think about it, you'll be practised.

Daylight saving time in many parts of the world and though it still kind of weird, when you feel like you and are lost, and our just because this system of measurement we use has changed slightly so anyway ill a great, so he's as he's looking back over these fifteen hundred needed, years, he's he's coming up. The Libya is right and he basically realises that the tens. error that they thought existed was actually too small and it appears to be a thirteen day air. and he said, there's only one possible explanation, the only possible donation is that the Pope, somehow faked three for centuries, almost four centuries of recorded his year, yeah Classic Pope Classic Poohpooh Moray ermine, I'm kidding, I'm not accusing the boy, for being some sort of doktor who ve in time thief I, but both of these camps, these two camps of phantom timers,

We ve mentioned there not by any the entire group of french theories about this but have some things common when it comes to their claims, cynically that there is a lack of archaeological and documentary evidence from centuries in the first millennium- and this is they say you're in these relics, nor the facts. This criterion, evidences rare, doesn't exist The centuries never happened. What's this, often explained by saying there wasn't very much construction or literature at the time wonder because of the dark ages right, yeah right and which think, is already kind of calling something the dark ages. So little bit of us being generalization here but They also say that Charlemagne was made up Yeah, you know not really sure about that? So what I would say,

they they made him up to what are they made up Charlemagne right in order to support, The existence of that century, like that, that's the whole reason the Charlemagne as a character yes and a lot of evidence from the time that does remain is new in some way related to Charlemagne. So how fast they will be? If that's true, if that is true, I would love it. There's there's a book, a camera, the authors, nay, maybe Octavio Paz known no wrong, but he wrote a book named the same this guy who wrote FIFA pendulum, wrote a book called bodily know which is about this, this guy, who works with his friends to completely bs. Of history well in their they're. Making up different this is not a spoiler one things they do very often is they make fake relics of saints, and bottle lino border lino like boy bodily no come on. Let's go

Everyone wants to see a a fairly tongue in cheek work at how people treated history and accuracy so that the problem with that kind of stuff is there saying that the absence of Emily is proof right. Yes, who are the most most of the world's other history, dismiss this because they say well what about radio metric data? We're about DIN drew chronology. Yet Andrew cannot Her ology is the study of rings on a tree to find the age right and then, in its fairly simple probably did it as a student somewhere or maybe in some kind of scouting troop cattle rings, and that gives you the age yeah exactly units and its future. Reliable trees grow in a certain way. I can also show you win a big event had opened and the more sophisticated urinalysis can be the more you can learn about the world around that tree at the time it was alive. So then, this guy,

the men go. He completely rejects the radio carbon dating that was used count. If he's pointing, it's the same thing. The young earth creation is point out. Ok, so that we believe that the earth is only six thousand or so years old, right yeah. I don't know were worlds to go here. Ben. I don't. I don't want Offend anybody by my personal belief is that neither earth is billion, years old year understood what we the reason that the use somewhere method of disagreement here. The creation stamp Manco is that specific radio metric dating is only approximate right and and and it's only it only really works for items- have a certain age thresholds because the ice it hopes that are measured

are they need to be certain proportion, so there has to be a there's, a sweet spot for radio metric dating right, so flamenco takes it step even further Ben and he's alleging that there's purposeful conspiring going on between these eyes were doing the dating and the people who want to have a different story or want to perpetuate the idea. The archaeological powers that be he ran working in concert with the Pope. Also, this is to mention the other. Things from anger does address point by point, many of the prevailing rebuttals of his argument, ripe where the proof that time as we know it exists in the chronology which renew his idea is something all the new chronology, and this goes back to the pseudo history. Alot of people tell you a pseudo history, but here he also

genes that the astronomy doesn't add up for him. He has has all these reasons. People say he's cherry picking data. However, the truth is ultimately, this kind of stuff can't exactly be disproven because of the nature of the way. The argument is constructed and should mention. The Anatoly flamenco is crazy, popular specially Russia he's, publish and sold over one million copies of his books. Other people joined in on the internet in trying to help him to critic, say that she's version of his has this sort of nationalist russian agenda right and people. People like to read it because his as you said earlier, being bound in the one's identity, makes you feel better about yourself, oh yeah separately, so casper of also lace. Flamenco

You might remember that name he's a world chest champion of their a couple other people, but that we ought to go and all that well, we should. We should mention that one of the things about the dark ages. Ok, it's just that. So we say that we often say we ve heard that the dark ages we're time in which culture just dropped off, right, plagues, left and right. People just how to deal with what was right in front of a men trying to eat, and I have time to make a tab every year I mean that's the idea, and so four men go and people who support him, like Kasparov believed that this stuff, that that sort of a yellow flag about the missing time, the phantom time they cause. Of course nothing happened because those centuries didn't happen, or in their view, I guess maybe there's nothing recorded-

time, because it all got burned. That's true, but at this point with with all these, with all these things, either you and I have had a heck of a time looking at she's three at large. We also talk about theories regarding the sphinx which we unfortunately D left. get into today. I think it's his own podcast really think O. Definitely age in Egypt and just the archaeology of Egypt is a more serious, maybe- and I want to be completely fair and point out this first Matt, while I am not convinced by illegal arguments in from ankles arguments. I am entirely certain that, with our lifetimes we're into weaving human beings. Maybe you and I maybe you listeners, we will discover something that can

completely blows our current understanding human history out of the water, we found fossils of men's near humans that sound like total, mythological clap wrap when you, when you mention it early you'll, we found real life habits, dude, real found other versions of early man. We affair, Human civilizations, thousands and thanks thousands of years older than we we're thought possible. So I think we're gonna discover more more stuff, I don't know if you can suppress it high would certainly with the internet if we can keep that open and free FCC but my question is how how will historical revisionism work in the future when there are so many different points of

maintaining track of the history of what of current events what's going on here? How is somebody gonna go through in change, all of that and is even possible now, maybe if it's that's a very good question. I dont know you you- and I have talked a lot about that, though the ways in which Ease of information is changing the human experience Oh, you know I'm sorry to go back on receiving in net neutrality, but if, if only certain websites are able to be reached at certain speeds. And then all the other ones they may be considered fringe were not as trafficked or don't You don't have enough money to get. To the USA bolt when her mother, ok. So then all you have to do is to control the information that is inside the fast lane. Right. That's true,

so I don't know they may duchess something I was thinking about yesterday. That's really your point because. I don't think it would be sustainable? This might be some story for another day at all. I don't know if it's sustainable to perpetrate that sort of inequality, because what we're talking about then, is an inequality of information, a segregated of information, to be honest, and- and I know that those to be loaded words for some people, but that's what it is kind of information in part- I maybe not that legal. I think the goal family is gonna, be on profit. I don't think it's a surly insidious thing. What do I would say been, whose is it yeah, asthma atomizer before me? You and I are secretly agents ray. I promise word not if we are, were so undercover that we don't know where, let us we're manchurian candid alpha or maybe we're like Manchurian interns- that's it so

line from Skype. Toward that, I thought was interesting. Is that the author said these phantom time? Hypotheses cannot be disapprove because any evidence offered to show that the wrong is simply called faker. Unreliable, no evidence seems no matter how well supported is good enough, and that's how I want to pass the question on to our listeners. Do you think that the key Human understanding of history is right wrong on a scale of one to ten, ten being perfect, you know where we're we're. Where do we fall? How do we get closer to ten? It's really great. If you have any ideas, sent him to us at Facebook we are conspiracy, stuff. There were also at conspiracy stuff on foot or we would love to hear from you. What you have the same will you think has honestly we don't

y know how we feel exactly we'd love to share some thoughts with you and that's the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us in a number of different ways. One of the best is to give us a call or numbers one. Eight, three, three STD w whitey K. If you don't want to do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at I hope. Radio dot com stuff they don't want. You to know is the production of a heart radio. For more podcast. From my heart radio visit, the I hurt, radio up apple pod casts or wherever you listen to your favorite, shows did you hear. People have Parker Amish allows dismantle I'm Janine Rubinstein host of people every day, a podcast from my heart, radio and people.

as people magazine. This act like your visit join me every week day, for I look at the stories driving the people newsroom their name sound, really good together, so that an important first step right, wild and styles the latest from Hollywood exclusive interviews. I dream like we're, may allow ground and introduce you to people who are making a difference in their communities. When we talk about the perimeter, changes that combines brains. Do we, kind of wire that conversation down. We say there is an impact, but we don T about impact Lisbon, anthems Guide and apple podcast. on the radio out ever you listen to part, can hey there.

Surprisingly brilliant is back for season. Two with more of the most shocking, inspiring and downright bizarre stories from science history, I'm merit on Gregg. Unsurprisingly, brilliant tells the Little moon stories behind the science that shape the world from the very first ever picture of a human corroded virus to how birth control is developed and from the gruesome journey to the first of a vaccine to how to win everything. Listen to surprisingly brilliant. On I hurt radio app on Apple pie casts or whether you get your protests.